Would you convert to Islam?

[Agnostic007]

What does wrong entail?

Pantheism is not something you can be wrong about, yet it's basically where I'm at.

The universe is god, you can't really refute that. If you know your physics this is a really low effort claim to make.

Religiosity is a spectrum, only Islam is truly dependent on a rigid definition of god and existence. Plenty of Jews, Christians and Hindu's who are flexible with their religion.

Nothing more terrifying to the western mind than the realization we're perpetually stuck in the middle. Saying there's no god with certainty is just insanity, saying god is properly descried by a book is equally insane.

When you say "The universe is God" then it seems there needs to be a definition of "God".

[Agnostic007]

If you want to be flexible why have a religion at all. Surely many followers of religions want something firm and long lasting, some truths you can always depend on. Many here don't want the flexibilty of LGBTQI+ and gender ideology, it's wrong and it's always wrong. If a religion can mean anything it ends up meaning nothing, brcause absolutely everything goes. Well not everything, you can't recite certain parts of the bible in public without going to jail,  for example this, "Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children." Certain people were very upset this quote was going to be in Gibson's Jesus movie and tried to shut it down.

Or this, erase it and never mention it or you will be erased lol.

"26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

"27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

You raise an excellent point. The bible is either the inspired word of God of it is not. The Koran is either the inspired word of God or it is not. What I see is religions bending what the bible says to make it easier to swallow. Or easier to gain converts. The belief in the Christian and Catholic god is slowly waning so rules are bent, the Pope makes allowances to keep the numbers strong. Cherry picking just means the rest is flawed.   

[Agnostic007]

No way, but leftists tend to support Islam for some strange reason.

I don't know that they support Islam, they just figure it's one more religion they have to deal with and get by. Typically, leftists are less supportive of any religion than conservatives. Maybe they just see the hypocrisy in one claiming superiority over the other, and figure it's fair to let the Christian conservatives get a little taste of their own medicine. Just a thought.. I don't know

[Agnostic007]

what does the "designer" look like?

"There must be something" isnt a compelling argument

Who created God is the age old answer to "Everything has to be created" If nothing can come from nothing, then how did God get here? If you answer "He has always existed" then I say matter has always existed.

As far as an intelligent designer... really? We have to excrete what we eat, our eyes give out on us, science has created glasses and Lasix surgery. People are born with disabilities. Not much of an argument for intelligent design.. seemed they would have figured how to avoid cancer for one thing   

[Agnostic007]

so these testaments bout Christ are lies?

they are sure that He really did exist

"They" are NOT sure... of course biblical scholars are sure, but historians are suspicious of the lack of documentation outside of the bible about such a person. Josephus' mentions have been proven as interpolations, (Earlier versions of his texts before the 4th century are lacking any mention of Jesus.) No contemporary historians mention dead saints rising from the dead and walking through Jerusalem when Jesus died on the cross. Seems it would have been noted somewhere outside of one mention in Matthew. No other gospel writer mentions it.

So no, "They" are not sure he existed. Even if given that latitude, there is zip support for the miracles outside the bible. For example, the Chinese kept pretty good records. If the earth had really stopped so one of Gods favorites could win a battle, that certainly would be mentioned outside the bible. However, not a single mention anywhere. What bigger event could you imagine that could occur in a time when historians were documenting events and it is missing completely? 

[Agnostic007]

The reasons are They're Stupid, Hate themselves,& The western world,
Mentally they're completely Fucked up.

oversimplistic, even for you

[Agnostic007]

They are the folklore of the times.

Jesus of Nazareth was a real person. See historical Jesus.

Even given he was a real person.. there is simply no evidence supporting he was a son of a god or did miracles. Most secular historians will by default, not argue Jesus existed, as it is almost impossible to prove he did not. However, that is about where it stops. Not a shred of evidence outside the bible supports any miracles.  It's 2024 and we can hardly believe half  or what we hear in the news, and we have people believing in a flat earth, the election was stolen etc... now just imagine stories being exchanged around the campfires 30 to 40 years after Jesus' alleged death.. that's when the earliest manuscripts were written. Now how accurate would you expect them to be?

[illuminati]

oversimplistic, even for you

Simplistic & True.
Also I kept that simple so you & the other Libturds can understand.

 

HTH

[Agnostic007]

Simplistic & True.
Also I kept that simple so you & the other Libturds can understand.

 

HTH

ok

[illuminati]

oversimplistic, even for you

Oh how's the China Virus Scamdeminc where you are ?
People still walking around like zombie's & dropping dead ?
Men in hazmat suits spraying everything in sight with whatever it was the Chinks were spraying,
And nailing folk in there homes ?

Are you wearing your Highly effective Face Nappy at all times still & had 19th Booster ?
You know Believe the Scientists & MSM etc They Never Ever Lie.  😂🤣😂🤣🤡

[Van_Bilderass]

Even given he was a real person.. there is simply no evidence supporting he was a son of a god or did miracles. Most secular historians will by default, not argue Jesus existed, as it is almost impossible to prove he did not. However, that is about where it stops. Not a shred of evidence outside the bible supports any miracles.  It's 2024 and we can hardly believe half  or what we hear in the news, and we have people believing in a flat earth, the election was stolen etc... now just imagine stories being exchanged around the campfires 30 to 40 years after Jesus' alleged death.. that's when the earliest manuscripts were written. Now how accurate would you expect them to be?

Thousands of Christians TODAY will swear they have seen miracles occur at their church, blind seeing, cripples walking, handling poisonous snakes to no harm. So eyewitness testimony means absolutely jack shit, a gifted manipulator could use cold reading methods to wow the uninitiated, a charismatic person could use any number of techniques. There's drugs and alcohol that could be used in a ritualistic manner. That David Blaine dude could easily become a cult leader by showing he can levitate etc lol. Then there's Christians who simply think the Bible is to be read as allegories or read in a mythopoetic way where much isn't literally true but conveys a deeper meaning. So you have lots of Christians who believe in evolution, or maybe that evolution was set off by "God." Or don't believe the ark story was literally true, nor the miracles of Jesus.

[pamith]

F*ck no, I'll be a Christian till I die, srs

[Beefjake]

Even if I would, so what.

I would just pick the bits that suit me, like now, like 99% Christians do.

In Christianity Jesus was a son of God. In Islam he is one of the profets.
Doesn’t make my bench press, or strict curl, move any easier either way.

[dj181]

You raise an excellent point. The bible is either the inspired word of God of it is not. The Koran is either the inspired word of God or it is not. What I see is religions bending what the bible says to make it easier to swallow. Or easier to gain converts. The belief in the Christian and Catholic god is slowly waning so rules are bent, the Pope makes allowances to keep the numbers strong. Cherry picking just means the rest is flawed.

i think it was c.s. lewis that said you only have 3 choices when it comes to the Lord Jesus Christ

He is either a liar, a lunatic or Lord

i'd say saying He's a liar is a strecth

He is either Lord or a lunatic, liars do not claim to be God

[Agnostic007]

Thousands of Christians TODAY will swear they have seen miracles occur at their church, blind seeing, cripples walking, handling poisonous snakes to no harm. So eyewitness testimony means absolutely jack shit, a gifted manipulator could use cold reading methods to wow the uninitiated, a charismatic person could use any number of techniques. There's drugs and alcohol that could be used in a ritualistic manner. That David Blaine dude could easily become a cult leader by showing he can levitate etc lol. Then there's Christians who simply think the Bible is to be read as allegories or read in a mythopoetic way where much isn't literally true but conveys a deeper meaning. So you have lots of Christians who believe in evolution, or maybe that evolution was set off by "God." Or don't believe the ark story was literally true, nor the miracles of Jesus.

It's a minefield. Fortunately. very few, I would say 10% of USA Christians have actually read the bible cover to cover. I have yet to meet more than 10 at most. So most have no idea what the bible actually says. They here bits and pieces cherry picked by pastors. So Christians play it safe. They say they believe in Jesus like that's some magic insurance policy just in case it's true. Let me ask you this... If tomorrow, an alien ship appeared above the White House, huge.. ominous, and it beamed down a book you could read in a week... how many Americans would read the book cover to cover in a month? Now we have the bible.. been around over 2,000 years, supposedly words of God, or the very least , inspired by God, yet such a small percentage have bothered to read it not 10 times, but once... Yes, they know the popular scriptures, John 3:16 etc, but never bothered to read it. You just can't convince me they REALLY believe in god or the bible. It's all about what they were brought up to believe, and or social expectations... I've read it, many times, which is part of why I am Agnostic/Atheist.

[Agnostic007]

i think it was c.s. lewis that said you only have 3 choices when it comes to the Lord Jesus Christ

He is either a liar, a lunatic or Lord

i'd say saying He's a liar is a strecth

He is either Lord or a lunatic, liars do not claim to be God

That might have come from his silly apologetic book, case for christ and is the WORST argument. It might have also been in Josh McDowells, Evidence that Demands a Verdict. That's where I remember seeing it.

There are so many other explanations they overlook.

[dj181]

That might have come from his silly apologetic book, case for christ and is the WORST argument. It might have also been in Josh McDowells, Evidence that Demands a Verdict. That's where I remember seeing it.

There are so many other explanations they overlook.

everyone who claims to be God is insane

so...

[Agnostic007]

everyone who claims to be God is insane

so...

Thing is, IF Jesus existed, lets say he did. We don't know he claimed to be god. That came later, about 40 years, when I think Paul started to make that connection.

Thing is, the bible is actually fascinating to study. It's history, it's origin from the first compilations, the books voted in in the 4th century at the Council of Nicea, to the books that didn't make it in, yet are referred to in some of the books that made it in... Those things alone cast suspicion for me. How can one book be deemed acceptable, that mentions another manuscript that they voted was not worthy? The evolution of the bible from the earliest forms through the King James revision is actually fascinating. But for me it had mans fingerprints all over it, not any holy spirit or guidance from a higher power. 

[dj181]

Thing is, IF Jesus existed, lets say he did. We don't know he claimed to be god. That came later, about 40 years, when I think Paul started to make that connection.

Thing is, the bible is actually fascinating to study. It's history, it's origin from the first compilations, the books voted in in the 4th century at the Council of Nicea, to the books that didn't make it in, yet are referred to in some of the books that made it in... Those things alone cast suspicion for me. How can one book be deemed acceptable, that mentions another manuscript that they voted was not worthy? The evolution of the bible from the earliest forms through the King James revision is actually fascinating. But for me it had mans fingerprints all over it, not any holy spirit or guidance from a higher power.

alright so if He claimed to be God then He is either insane or Lord

[pamith]

Thing is, IF Jesus existed, lets say he did. We don't know he claimed to be god. That came later, about 40 years, when I think Paul started to make that connection.

Thing is, the bible is actually fascinating to study. It's history, it's origin from the first compilations, the books voted in in the 4th century at the Council of Nicea, to the books that didn't make it in, yet are referred to in some of the books that made it in... Those things alone cast suspicion for me. How can one book be deemed acceptable, that mentions another manuscript that they voted was not worthy? The evolution of the bible from the earliest forms through the King James revision is actually fascinating. But for me it had mans fingerprints all over it, not any holy spirit or guidance from a higher power.

One day you'll meet the maker...is God gonna be ok with this?

[Agnostic007]

alright so if He claimed to be God then He is either insane or Lord

Or, he was misquoted after his death 40 years later. You have to understand, much of the Gospels were trying to fit the Old Testament prophecies to Jesus. Some of them came across as silly. I think it was Matthew that had Jesus riding two mules into the city because the Old Testament was unclear. It's perfectly plausible he was a charismatic leader teaching love.. for he said the greatest commandment was to love one another as you love god.  It is very plausible he never claimed to be god or the son of god. There are biblical scholars who have studied the evolution of Jesus as just a teacher, teaching gods love, to full blown deity.. I think it started with Paul, who started writing 40 years after Jesus died. It's been awhile since I was deep into this but that's what I recall.

A disclaimer_ I am not trying to change anyone's mind about their religion. I am just discussing what I have come across when I was studying the bible several years back trying to figure out what was true and what was not. I could be wrong.

[Agnostic007]

One day you'll meet the maker...is God gonna be ok with this?

Love this question. Could I worship a creator who would punish me for lacking belief in it's existence? I truly searched. I believed for 30 years. But when I started digging deep, I had doubts that kept building. At any point said creator could have supplied the evidence like he did Saul, Thomas, and many others. I would hope he would appreciate my integrity, and consider my lifes work. If he let's a death row inmate in because they repent at the 11th hour and send me to an eternity of hell because I had legitimate doubts, probably not the god for me. 

[dj181]

Or, he was misquoted after his death 40 years later. You have to understand, much of the Gospels were trying to fit the Old Testament prophecies to Jesus. Some of them came across as silly. I think it was Matthew that had Jesus riding two mules into the city because the Old Testament was unclear. It's perfectly plausible he was a charismatic leader teaching love.. for he said the greatest commandment was to love one another as you love god.  It is very plausible he never claimed to be god or the son of god. There are biblical scholars who have studied the evolution of Jesus as just a teacher, teaching gods love, to full blown deity.. I think it started with Paul, who started writing 40 years after Jesus died. It's been awhile since I was deep into this but that's what I recall.

A disclaimer_ I am not trying to change anyone's mind about their religion. I am just discussing what I have come across when I was studying the bible several years back trying to figure out what was true and what was not. I could be wrong.

do you know 1st John? he makes some pretty big statements

[Agnostic007]

do you know 1st John? he makes some pretty big statements

1st John was written between 95 and 110 AD imagine back then... life span.. what 40 50 years.. Someone is writing about a religious figure that existed 100 years ago... that's all I'm saying

[dj181]

1st John was written between 95 and 110 AD imagine back then... life span.. what 40 50 years.. Someone is writing about a religious figure that existed 100 years ago... that's all I'm saying

he was the disciple that wasn't murdered and he lived a very long time so....