Gear and chronic mental effects on women

[Bubblan122]

Long time ago I posted, but I got an observation: I have never been especially afraid for the effects of anabolics on women (and most of them can be dealt with). I have much more respect now since I have seen so many women get chronic negative mental effects (which men do not get in the same way at all). I wouldn't worry so much if it only occured during a cycle, but the scary part is that it seems to get chronic (or at least very long time after..time will tell). The effects they get are paranoia, emotionally cold end emotions and focus going up and down. These effects are real and seems to be chronic, even after low-dose of only anabolics (with no androgens)! Have anyone of you observed the same. Does anyone hnow any scientific studies of this.
/B.

[SLYY]

I would say....testosterone (and other compounds derived from it)......is a male hormone

Women should not use a male hormone....it is that simple...

[bigjohn_bluesfan]

I would say....testosterone (and other compounds derived for it)......is a male hormone

Women should not use a male hormone....it is that simple...

exactly because when they do, It turns them into volleyball coaches

[Bubblan122]

Has anyone of you out there experienced those mental effects? What about you women? Are you the same as before, or are you more up and down in mood and energy and more paranoic (which maybe you thought was the "industry" was bad)? I am very curious to know about this and it is OK to mail instead of posting. If this is true, it is news. The scientist Pope (which I never thought of too highly) has shown similar effects of AAS on women; but not very long-term or even chronic.
/B.

[DIVISION]

Long time ago I posted, but I got an observation: I have never been especially afraid for the effects of anabolics on women (and most of them can be dealt with). I have much more respect now since I have seen so many women get chronic negative mental effects (which men do not get in the same way at all). I wouldn't worry so much if it only occured during a cycle, but the scary part is that it seems to get chronic (or at least very long time after..time will tell). The effects they get are paranoia, emotionally cold end emotions and focus going up and down. These effects are real and seems to be chronic, even after low-dose of only anabolics (with no androgens)! Have anyone of you observed the same. Does anyone hnow any scientific studies of this.
/B.

No scientific studies because it's unethical to feed women AAS, though I have seen some of these traits in women who abuse anabolics.

Some of the more hardcore female bodybuilders display them commonly.

Also women tend to lose many of their femmenine characteristics, nuances that make them women.

I'm not talking physical, simply their mentality changes.

In some ways this is irreversible.




DIV

[Bubblan122]

There is one study of Pope and I will return to that one later. What blows my mind here are the mental changes though. At first I thought: Well, it is a hardcore sport and they are selected from the beginning and all f... up to start with. But I know some of them were "normal" before with no personality disorder to start with and have changed by time. Even on low dosage. The major factor here seem to be time on cycle (hardcore doses will of course have acute effects...and then it is more of type..behaving like a man while on cycle). What I am talking about here are the effects after and the girls almost get a more "psykopatic" profile. Then because of the mood and energy swings and lack of focus long after a cycle; it is very easy for the women to "get a focus again". That is another contest and start a very long cycle again and them focus and energy levels go up, but the personality changes only get worse in the long run and the risk to almost always be on a cycle.

What do some of u using (or post using) women out there think? Are you the same person as before or do u think u have changed?
/B.

[Johnny Apollo]

Steroids are too risky for women to take unless for medical conditions IMO.

Maybe some SERM's or something like that but full AAS cycle? No. Definitly not.


Healthy adult men can do steroids and even abuse them and most rarely see side effects.

Women doing even a small amount see side effects right off of the bat since it's MALE hormoes they are intorducing into their bodies at high levels.

[DIVISION]

What do some of u using (or post using) women out there think? Are you the same person as before or do u think u have changed?

I seriously doubt you'll get any women using AAS to answer that on here.




DIV

[Bubblan122]

Maybe. But I do not know who they are... Just interested if many had those experiences (if they can see those changes) or if friends have seen those changes. It is important to know. / B

[phoenix71]

Men who have an abundance of estrogen have "bitch tits" and such...

Women who take TEST are not thought of much

[BIG_O]

Shit long time Bubblan. How ya been?

I believe the answer to your question bro is that the hormones increase catecholamine levels which in turn stimulate the amygdala.

I would honestly have to look for any studies that support this but I am sure it has to do with the relationship of the hormone with the adrenal cortex, catecholamines and the amygdala. Didn't one of us bring this up on the old board years ago?

Then again what the hell do I know. I am on page 23,452 on my wife and still haven't the foggiest idea how she works yet.

I'll see if I can find anything this weekend but I am sure this is why this happens.

[Dos Equis]

Healthy adult men can do steroids and even abuse them and most rarely see side effects.

Now that's funny.  Proof?

[Dos Equis]

The side effects women should be most concerned with are the growth of noses and chins.  Most obvious sign of steroid abuse in women IMO.  Not sure if it's only certain kinds that cause this? 

[DIVISION]

I believe the answer to your question bro is that the hormones increase catecholamine levels which in turn stimulate the amygdala.

I would honestly have to look for any studies that support this but I am sure it has to do with the relationship of the hormone with the adrenal cortex, catecholamines and the amygdala.

That sounds promising.

That would support the sides he's referring to.

The anxiety and paranoia.




DIV

[Bubblan122]

Whazz up Big O. Been up to a lot... It makes a lot of sense with catecholamines working on amygdala. That would certainly explain agressivness, paranoia, lack of mental stamina, swings in energy level. Since the effect seems to stay a LONG time post cycle, the effects must be structural also. I am looking in to the clinical stuff... Big O, do u have time to look up the more basic research about it. Would be very nice of u..
Talk later
B

[wyckedkitty]

I wouldn't go as far as to say men don't have negative mental effects! I've been around a few, I would say that was effected more then they would like to admit.

[BIG_O]

I wouldn't go as far as to say men don't have negative mental effects! I've been around a few, I would say that was effected more then they would like to admit.

Everyone that takes AAS has the potential for mood alterations there Wyckedkitty, men and women alike. The reason is the compounds mechanism of action on the brain.

Whazz up Big O. Been up to a lot... It makes a lot of sense with catecholamines working on amygdala. That would certainly explain agressivness, paranoia, lack of mental stamina, swings in energy level. Since the effect seems to stay a LONG time post cycle, the effects must be structural also. I am looking in to the clinical stuff... Big O, do u have time to look up the more basic research about it. Would be very nice of u..
Talk later
B

Lets see if these shed any light on our hypotheseis bro.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=books&doptcmdl=GenBookHL&term=amygdala+steroids+AND+232261%5Buid%5D&rid=neurosci.box.2117
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=books&doptcmdl=GenBookHL&term=amygdala+steroids+AND+161584%5Buid%5D&rid=bnchm.section.3524#3525
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=books&doptcmdl=GenBookHL&term=amygdala+steroids+AND+232276%5Buid%5D&rid=neurosci.section.2127


This one is of particular interest Bubblan. Notice the correlation between the locus ceruleus and the amygdala.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=books&doptcmdl=GenBookHL&term=catecholamines+amygdala+AND+161683%5Buid%5D&rid=bnchm.section.3767#3775

I still think the sharp rise in catecholamine levels from the AAS is stimulating the amygdala which in turn is causing the symptoms associated in some of the women. It also could have something to do with the amygdala, hippocampus and the preoptic area having a high estrogen receptor abundance as well. Some women experience manic episodes around menstruation. A direct correlation has been linked to high estrogen in these areas of the brain.

In any case, I guess it would be prudent not to piss them off. I'll keep looking for anything concrete too.

[Bubblan122]

Super thx Gig O. U the man. I will read them as soon as possible. To the study made by Popes gang: Psychiatric and Medical Effects of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Use in Women (Psychother Psychosom 2000: 69: 19-26; by Amanda Gruber and Harrison Pope Jr.)
Little study and can be critized in several ways but still interesting points:
Recruited 75 deidicated women (BB and fitness) and did medical and psychiatric evaluations (will focus here only on psychiatric:
AAS users 56% reported hypomanic episodes during cycle and 40% depressive episode after cycle. During cycle 40% were percieved as aggressive by others which the users had no insight of. AAS users also had more use of other substances including narcotics. AAS users also had increased incidence of eating disorders, depression and post traumatic stress disorder.
Very interesting study...but not long-term study.
/B.

[DIVISION]

Everyone that takes AAS has the potential for mood alterations there Wyckedkitty, men and women alike. The reason is the compounds mechanism of action on the brain.

Lets see if these shed any light on our hypotheseis bro.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=books&doptcmdl=GenBookHL&term=amygdala+steroids+AND+232261%5Buid%5D&rid=neurosci.box.2117
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=books&doptcmdl=GenBookHL&term=amygdala+steroids+AND+161584%5Buid%5D&rid=bnchm.section.3524#3525
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=books&doptcmdl=GenBookHL&term=amygdala+steroids+AND+232276%5Buid%5D&rid=neurosci.section.2127


This one is of particular interest Bubblan. Notice the correlation between the locus ceruleus and the amygdala.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=books&doptcmdl=GenBookHL&term=catecholamines+amygdala+AND+161683%5Buid%5D&rid=bnchm.section.3767#3775

I still think the sharp rise in catecholamine levels from the AAS is stimulating the amygdala which in turn is causing the symptoms associated in some of the women. It also could have something to do with the amygdala, hippocampus and the preoptic area having a high estrogen receptor abundance as well. Some women experience manic episodes around menstruation. A direct correlation has been linked to high estrogen in these areas of the brain.

In any case, I guess it would be prudent not to piss them off. I'll keep looking for anything concrete too.

Good shit, BIG O.

The correlations are there and it would seem to explain alot...

Women are too hormonal as it is.  Introducing male hormones in to their system only makes things worse.  The only positive thing, I suppose, is that their sex drive is off the chain when they are on cycle.




DIV

[Bubblan122]

Hey Big O,
If it is true what I am saying and that androgens induce stimulation of amygdala and its effect. What can be done about it? SSRI - less anxiety and maybe less temper (effect in this case against depression is low). Estrogen treatment?? Therapy wise: anger managment, emotion and anxiety...
What do you think (and all you others too)?
/B.

[DIVISION]

Hey Big O,
If it is true what I am saying and that androgens induce stimulation of amygdala and its effect. What can be done about it? SSRI - less anxiety and maybe less temper (effect in this case against depression is low). Estrogen treatment?? Therapy wise: anger managment, emotion and anxiety...
What do you think (and all you others too)?
/B.

Bubbles,

You don't want to introduce an SSRI simply to counteract the effects of androgens, that's just opening a pandora's box of possible sides.

I could see valium, perhaps...

Also, counteracting androgens with estrogens is pointless.  You're just piling on more hormones and asking for more sides as a result.

Therapy might help if coping strategies are introduced, though I'm not sure how far you'd get with a female bodybuilder high on androgens.  A ticking time bomb for sure.....not an ideal patient.



DIV 

[theman]

Bubbles,

You don't want to introduce an SSRI simply to counteract the effects of androgens, that's just opening a pandora's box of possible sides.

I could see valium, perhaps...

Also, counteracting androgens with estrogens is pointless.  You're just piling on more hormones and asking for more sides as a result.

Therapy might help if coping strategies are introduced, though I'm not sure how far you'd get with a female bodybuilder high on androgens.  A ticking time bomb for sure.....not an ideal patient.



DIV 

Amen to that - SSRI's have their own set of side effects - some of which can perpetuate anxiety, insomnia, etc.

[Bubblan122]

Could be right Division. SSRI I think is important for some..because bensos are too addictive in the long run. Coping stratergies could work (long off cycle of course) if the person in question has a pretty open mind (which can be difficult even long off cycle since the effects seems to last). Any other suggestions..
/B.

[DIVISION]

Could be right Division. SSRI I think is important for some..because bensos are too addictive in the long run. Coping stratergies could work (long off cycle of course) if the person in question has a pretty open mind (which can be difficult even long off cycle since the effects seems to last). Any other suggestions..
/B.

Bubbles,

SSRI's are the wrong way to go.  The sides from androgen use in women would not be corrected by SSRI's and the associated sides of such introduce a whole new set of possible risks.

Valium like any benzo can be addictive in high enough dosages for extended periods.  That's common sense.  We're talking short-term adjunct therapy here, not long-term therapeutic strategy.

As I said, trying to deal with a female bodybuilder high on androgens is a case-study we have not seen yet.  I don't see Psychological coping mechanisms as a realistic means here.  Remember, she's got both male and female hormones in mass amounts. 

I don't see any other suggestions relevant and yes, Psychology is my forte' along with AAS pharmacology.

This is my last comment on this......closing the book on this thread.



DIV

[coolioni]

I had posted a few months back on this.
My wife had taken a few shots of test prop in small doses.
Then behind my back she injected a whole amp of sustanon.
She ended up getting hairloss, which atopped, but it was begginning to fall out.
I was finding long hair everywhere!
Plus she developed some hair under her chin about a year ago.
She has not touched any anabolics in about a year now,but the chin hair is still there.
She ends up shaving it everyday.
And it gets stubbly by the enening.
I kind of hate feeling it when i kiss her, and it really is a turn off.
I still love her dearly, but it does kind of turn my stomach kissing her and feeling a stubbly chin!
She is Italian ,and was pretty hairy before this, but I think the lo doses of prop and then the one shot of sus really made it worse.
She even started to get a larger clitoris when she was taking a low dose prop cycle.
She was taking about 25 mg's every 10 days for about 6 weeks.