Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Arnold Palmer on January 08, 2009, 11:13:21 PM
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I planned on doing a big cut about a month from now but after reading up some things I am not sure if I should just do more cardio now while I am bulking. From what I read MAX-OT says I can cut down and keep putting on mass. I don't know about this never been able to do both. Some people say doing 30min jogging type of stuff is the only way to go. Max-OT seems the exact opposite what works best? Any reliable evidence either way?
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You ever looked a boxer? If you haven't tried already get a jumprope. That's some of the best cardio I've done. Melts fat and doesn't bang your joints hard and works calves good. Learn to skip though not just ploppin' up and down.
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I planned on doing a big cut about a month from now but after reading up some things I am not sure if I should just do more cardio now while I am bulking. From what I read MAX-OT says I can cut down and keep putting on mass. I don't know about this never been able to do both. Some people say doing 30min jogging type of stuff is the only way to go. Max-OT seems the exact opposite what works best? Any reliable evidence either way?
dont jog or sprint. if your going to do one, sprint, but h best cardio for a bodybuilder is WALKING. brisk walk, maybe a slight uphill. no more.
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I personally like the elliptical machine & then a distant second in a stairmaster.
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Might consider a form of interval training if endless running (4-5 days a week...which can be muscle wasting in it's self) does not appeal to you. Something like the Tabata protocol for example, which is usually preformed 2 to 3 times a week. That's 20 seconds of intense effort followed by 10 seconds of rest and than back to the 20 second effort again, than 10 second rest, etc. Any where from 4 to 8 sets or cycles of this interval training, depending on personal goals..
Has worked wonders for fat lost while retaining, or improving, present muscle mass. Can be done with a rowing machine, airdyne, spin cycle (not a washing machine), elliptical machine, run/walk, etc. Works well for certain weight exercises also: squats, DL, cleans, etc. Even bwt squats give results. In any event, a killer method which should be approached slowly at first. But after a while fat lost and a higher level of stamina (endurance-strength) will follow.
Lot's of other interval training protocols that can give outstanding results other than Tabata. Take a web crawl and see what you may find. Many college, sports medicine and research information on interval methods and their affect on improving V02 max and fat reduction.. Good luck.
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jpm have you seen on well developed...i mean.. more muscular than what is considered "natural"...do interval cardio with sprints and such...this kind of overly muscular person do this high intensity cardio....and retain mass ? if so, on steroids at the time? and, did they supplement this cardio with some kind of protein or carb ?
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Time to do a Google, would you not agree?
Good Luck.
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you think this guy is for real or what? could a human seriously be such an arrogant douche ? with zero knowledge other than "anecdotal evidence" ?
Yes on all counts. He sounds like a retiree with some of the phrases but apparently is only in his 30s. :D Still waiting for his recent pics as he promised.
Unintentionally very amusing, as always. ;D
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Web crawl.......Webcrawler a top ranked web search tool. Hope this helps. Like when giving out information on the "V" bar to you. Which you knew nothing about. And of course being in my 30's tends to have an advantage than being in your 70's.
Cand-did seems to be imploding again. Hope his feeling are not damaged too much. Good Luck.
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Tabata protocols HIIT! im a believer after trying
20sec max workload 10sec rest.... 4min of that!
wow. your really a douchebag. a figured youd respond positively if i asked you a question in the format of you being the "authority". but yet, no, your just a douchebag.
anyway, high intensity cardio will not help sustain muscle nor build it. things like jogging and sprinting are counterproductive to musle mass.
bullshit!
only thing that's gonna burn muscle is if your running a marathon for 3 hours.
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Tabata protocols HIIT! im a believer after trying
20sec max workload 10sec rest.... 4min of that!
bullshit!
only thing that's gonna burn muscle is if your running a marathon for 3 hours.
no no no
undertsand, these thypes of exercise require glucose at a faster rate than gluconeogensis can provide. so the body must result to glycogen. glycogen is limited, and once glycogen runs out, the body must start to break down muscle for energy.
also, hormonally, endurance exercises like sprinting or runnign or joggin basically prevent you from building any mass at all.
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no no no
undertsand, these thypes of exercise require glucose at a faster rate than gluconeogensis can provide. so the body must result to glycogen. glycogen is limited, and once glycogen runs out, the body must start to break down muscle for energy.
also, hormonally, endurance exercises like sprinting or runnign or joggin basically prevent you from building any mass at all.
No one said you should do it with empty glycogen stores, or empty stomach.... I always eat before, i do HIIT for fitness benefits and the fat burn is a nice bonus.
Sprinting releases the good hormones, marathon running however like you say release muscle and fat wasting hormones.
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dont jog or sprint. if your going to do one, sprint, but h best cardio for a bodybuilder is WALKING. brisk walk, maybe a slight uphill. no more.
I'm in full agreement with Candi.
My favorite two forms of cardio minus walking on a treadmill:
Farmers Walks
Car Pushing.
Takes the snot right out of you!!!!
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I agree with Rimbaud. I usually do twenty minutes on the elliptical and ten minutes on the stair master. Works pretty well for me.
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For what it's worth, interval training on a treadmill has worked for me. Granted, I'm not a bodybuilder...just a formerly obese man, now a slightly chubby man, soon to be "normal," but intervals have helped me lose fat without sacrificing what little muscle I have.
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Walking's not really good enough IMO, UNLESS you up the intensity on a treadmill with a good incline and high tempo, close to jogging. Then you've got a serious cardio workout that gets the heart going, and won't generally hurt the joints like running can.
Stairmaster with the stairs is my choice, the standard stairmaster is also good. Elliptical is ok but a little on the moderate less intense side, in which case it's probably better to do it for a longer period of time in inclined position, or to do it in conjuction with some other cardio.
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Walking's not really good enough IMO, UNLESS you up the intensity on a treadmill with a good incline and high tempo, close to jogging. Then you've got a serious cardio workout that gets the heart going, and won't generally hurt the joints like running can.
Stairmaster with the stairs is my choice, the standard stairmaster is also good. Elliptical is ok but a little on the moderate less intense side, in which case it's probably better to do it for a longer period of time in inclined position, or to do it in conjuction with some other cardio.
walking is post training and first thing in the morning.
i wouldnt really ever do cario at any other time. to me thats just a waste of time.
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When cutting I like to take a brisk 45 min morning walk. Great way to start the day.
Just recently started using Tabata and love it too. I use it with sprinting and hitting the punching bag, fuckin great quick workout.
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Walking? LMAO! What a homo!
yes epic waste of time
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Mix it up.
Do one or two high intensity cardio sessions a week, in order to train your heart and lung functions.
A better general health status makes for better overall gains IMHO.
You can also do one or two low intensity cardio sessions, which aids in recovery from workouts.
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Mix it up.
Do one or two high intensity cardio sessions a week, in order to train your heart and lung functions.
A better general health status makes for better overall gains IMHO.
You can also do one or two low intensity cardio sessions, which aids in recovery from workouts.
Sounds good. One type of cardio just gets boring. Throwing in some weight-based stuff is enjoyable too. Kettlebells etc
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When cutting I like to take a brisk 45 min morning walk. Great way to start the day.
really true. for some reason first thing in the morning going out and taking a walk around the neighborhood really does get me in a good mood the rest of the day. time to think, i think.
yes epic waste of time
no wa, to me, anything other than walking in the morning or post work out is a waste of time. i only want to burn fat, not do it for "health".
IMO cardio for health is bullcrap anyway. the mroe work the heart does, the shorter amount of time you live. if you eat less your metabolism slows which means sthe heart pumps less, then you live longer. so if you do intense cardio the heart works very hard then i wont let you live as long. IMO bes for health = healthy diet + sedentary lifestyle.
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Walking's good for overall health and can do alot psychologically, for example in the morning to wake you up, get blood circulating, fresh air, etc. No doubt about it. However as far as cardio, i don't see it unless you're practically jogging or walk an hour or more daily. Normal walking speed sessions would be a nice complement to real cardio.
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walking is good to shred fat
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Walking's good for overall health and can do alot psychologically, for example in the morning to wake you up, get blood circulating, fresh air, etc. No doubt about it. However as far as cardio, i don't see it unless you're practically jogging. A normal walking speed would be a nice complement to real cardio.
Unless you live in LA where walking outside can be detrimental to your health.
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jajajaja that slow walking does have some benefits, but is it worth the time? if you got lots of time sure, but when working 40+ hours a week...
4min HIIT vs 40min walk
easy choice, less time & more benefits 8)
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Man ya'll need to mess with that jumprope, I'm telling ya! 8)
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Man ya'll need to mess with that jumprope, I'm telling ya! 8)
That requires too much effort.
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That requires too much effort.
Haha that is true
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Low intensity cardio is the best way to burn bodyfat but retain the muscle. For guys between the ages of 20-40, keeping the heart rate at between 110-130 beats per minute for periods of half an hour at a time three or four times a week is more than beneficial.
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Low intensity cardio is the best way to burn bodyfat but retain the muscle. For guys between the ages of 20-40, keeping the heart rate at between 110-130 beats per minute for periods of half an hour at a time three or four times a week is more than beneficial.
See thats exactally where I get confused. When so many people say something along the lines of the above quote. I thought HIIT, Tabata, and other high intensity interval training was best for sparing muscle tissue??? I just want to know whats more effective and I will go balls out no matter which method. But I really don't want to have to try both if I don't have to I want to be cut down as soon as possible. High Intensity short duration / interval OR low intensity longer duration??? WTF no clear cut answers ANYWHERE just the same two approaches claiming to be superior at the same fucking things lol.
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See thats exactally where I get confused. When so many people say something along the lines of the above quote. I thought HIIT, Tabata, and other high intensity interval training was best for sparing muscle tissue??? I just want to know whats more effective and I will go balls out no matter which method. But I really don't want to have to try both if I don't have to I want to be cut down as soon as possible. High Intensity short duration / interval OR low intensity longer duration??? WTF no clear cut answers ANYWHERE just the same two approaches claiming to be superior at the same fucking things lol.
slow cardio is most definitely better at sparing muscle.
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See thats exactally where I get confused. When so many people say something along the lines of the above quote. I thought HIIT, Tabata, and other high intensity interval training was best for sparing muscle tissue??? I just want to know whats more effective and I will go balls out no matter which method. But I really don't want to have to try both if I don't have to I want to be cut down as soon as possible. High Intensity short duration / interval OR low intensity longer duration??? WTF no clear cut answers ANYWHERE just the same two approaches claiming to be superior at the same fucking things lol.
The idea behind the Tabata method is to raise metabolism throughout the day.
So while you may burn 200cals during your cardio session, walking on the treadmill, versus 150cals while sprinting in half the amount of time; you will supposedly burn an extra X amount of calories MORE throughout the day using a higher intensity method similar to the Tabata method.
Kind of a numbers game. Bottom line, do what works for you (and somewhat just as importantly) your schedule. I used to break up my aerobics into separate sessions throughout the day. But now, I'm up at 2:30am, in bed @7pm. I have no time to do that anymore. I have to lump it all in together...and in the end this has worked the best for me. But it's not my preference.
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See thats exactally where I get confused. When so many people say something along the lines of the above quote. I thought HIIT, Tabata, and other high intensity interval training was best for sparing muscle tissue??? I just want to know whats more effective and I will go balls out no matter which method. But I really don't want to have to try both if I don't have to I want to be cut down as soon as possible. High Intensity short duration / interval OR low intensity longer duration??? WTF no clear cut answers ANYWHERE just the same two approaches claiming to be superior at the same fucking things lol.
I've written this before in other posts-they all work, the differences aren't huge. There is no established significant difference. Go with what appeals more, or mix it up with different approaches in different workouts. Low intensity is to me boring, a huge time-waster and training for puzzies. ;D
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I've written this before in other posts-they all work, the differences aren't huge. There is no established significant difference. Go with what appeals more, or mix it up with different approaches in different workouts. Low intensity is to me boring, a huge time-waster and training for puzzies. Grin
Ok, I am starting to think the same. I actually found studies that show both to be more effective. So I am going to take a all encompassing approach and combine both types of cardio. I know that doing low intensity long duration cardio can get very boring for me so I will try to get it in once or twice a week. But the HIIT type or tabata high intensity short duration is actually fun for me and I can do it 3-4 days a week no problem. I think I will start the HIIT type today after my lifting session. And start the long distance low intensity type of stuff in a month when I go into major cut mode.
Next I will be trying to plan out actually Lifting that might help my cutting. I know high rep seems to do better but I don't know if its worth losing the test and gh secreting effects of doing high weights.
Thanks for the help everyone ;D
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hahaha walking? elipitcal? are you fuckin kidding me is this the injury and rehab section of the training board? no man if you want a CARDIOVASCULAR WORKOUT then you do some stairmaster, jogging(rough on the joints though but damn gets you winded), racketball(just started this recently, so much fun, any active sport will do), or jump rope (pure awesomeness). those are just a few options but WALKING AND ELIPTICAL???? what the fuck? same rules apply to cardio as to lifting weights in order to get maximum benefits-- be intense!!!
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I will def have to try some jump roping and also might get a punching bag. Boxers seem to all be pretty ripped so it might be something worth looking into. I think punching the shit out something and not having to go to jail for it this time would also be pretty damn fun.
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I will def have to try some jump roping and also might get a punching bag. Boxers seem to all be pretty ripped so it might be something worth looking into. I think punching the shit out something and not having to go to jail for it this time would also be pretty damn fun.
punching bag is awesome i used to have one in my basement it was held down with weights but it made too much noise when hitting it and a pain carrying weights back and forth when i used to work out at home. incredible workout though, fucking incredible.
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punching bag is awesome i used to have one in my basement it was held down with weights but it made too much noise when hitting it and a pain carrying weights back and forth when i used to work out at home. incredible workout though, fucking incredible.
Had a punching bag myself till I punched it wrong and my wrist were screaming for a week. Gladly it didn't last longer than that. It's a workout no doubt. Most guys don't realise they only have bout a minute of pure fight in them and they are done. If ya wanna be good at cardio, I agree, do something physical.