So many talk about nebulous things re judging. No wonder the whole scene is confused. Get back to the basics. Size, proportions, balance, definition, overall impression minus defects, etc. Way too much is placed upon conditioning. WTF is that all about? Who started this nonsense? When comparing Ron and Jay start at the top and work down front, back and sides. Clearly, Jay is superior in calves. End of contest if the rest of their physiques are comparable. I suppose the only thing the judges agree about is conditioning. Yep, that pretty well is an indictment of most judges and the whole sport. They have distorted what bodybuilding is all about because they long ago gave up trying to separate competitors along the traditional lines. Dorian won with a torn biceps, Ron won with suspect calves, and so the sorry story goes. It just is not good enough but the professionals show up, keep their mouths shut, and take whatever is dished out to them. Talk about a crazy sport.