59% of Catholics now Dissaprove of Obama (Santorum Surge anyone?)

[240 is Back]

Lets start with the latest with him imposing forcing to pay for contraception in the catholic community when it's within their right to refuse it.

while i agree with the church here..

I worry about what happens when those in the 'muslim community' are allowed preferential treatment.

unreal that when we're seeing sharia law popping up in counties and towns around america - it will be BECAUSE of all these exceptions made for one church.

[Soul Crusher]

while i agree with the church here..

I worry about what happens when those in the 'muslim community' are allowed preferential treatment.

unreal that when we're seeing sharia law popping up in counties and towns around america - it will be BECAUSE of all these exceptions made for one church.

IF THE GOVERNMENT WERE NOT FORCING ANYONE TO PURCHASE THINGS IT DID NOT WANT TO, WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. 

CAPICHE? 

[240 is Back]

IF THE GOVERNMENT WERE NOT FORCING ANYONE TO PURCHASE THINGS IT DID NOT WANT TO, WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. 

CAPICHE? 

well, it's a part of life.  my govt forces me to buy a license and insurance to drive.  I can't buy a house without a shitload of paperwork.  If i'm an employer, there's a ton of things i have to pay for. 

you're talking 'we should overhaul the entire system and restructure living costs for 310 million people'

That's awesome, but that's not realisitc for something we're gonna fix in this lifetime, unfortunately.

[Soul Crusher]

well, it's a part of life.  my govt forces me to buy a license and insurance to drive.  I can't buy a house without a shitload of paperwork.  If i'm an employer, there's a ton of things i have to pay for. 

you're talking 'we should overhaul the entire system and restructure living costs for 310 million people'

That's awesome, but that's not realisitc for something we're gonna fix in this lifetime, unfortunately.

Huh?   And you have the balls to call yourself a libertarian?   What you just advocated is fascism and govt fiat and tyranny. 

BTW - Ron Paul disagrees with you on this.   No wonder you stayed home.   

[240 is Back]

Huh?   And you have the balls to call yourself a libertarian?   What you just advocated is fascism and govt fiat and tyranny. 
BTW - Ron Paul disagrees with you on this.   No wonder you stayed home.   

no, i didn't advocate anything.  it's part of life.

I don't advocate death, taxes, and allergies... but they're part of life.

Amazing that you equate accepting reality with endorsing everything about it. 

I accept it's a shitty system, and that nobody viable in this race will change it.  So I don't dwell upon "we've gotta changge the whole system, mannnn".

Rather, I try to work within the contraints of the reality of this situation.

[Soul Crusher]

no, i didn't advocate anything.  it's part of life.

I don't advocate death, taxes, and allergies... but they're part of life.

Amazing that you equate accepting reality with endorsing everything about it. 

I accept it's a shitty system, and that nobody viable in this race will change it.  So I don't dwell upon "we've gotta changge the whole system, mannnn".

Rather, I try to work within the contraints of the reality of this situation.

fail.    Just say you want the govt and obama to run your life and get over with it.   

[240 is Back]

fail.    Just say you want the govt and obama to run your life and get over with it.   

i'd love it if we could all drive without car insurance or drivers license.  The govt forces us to buy those.  agreed?

[Shockwave]

no, i didn't advocate anything.  it's part of life.

I don't advocate death, taxes, and allergies... but they're part of life.

Amazing that you equate accepting reality with endorsing everything about it. 

I accept it's a shitty system, and that nobody viable in this race will change it.  So I don't dwell upon "we've gotta changge the whole system, mannnn".

Rather, I try to work within the contraints of the reality of this situation.

This may be true, but your posts contradict what youre saying here.

[Soul Crusher]

i'd love it if we could all drive without car insurance or drivers license.  The govt forces us to buy those.  agreed?

You are not forced to drive!   YOU HAVE THE CHOICE NOT TO DO SO IF YOU DONT LIKE!     

[240 is Back]

you can accept the CONSTRAINTS and try to succeed within them.

I can accept i can't drive a car, buy a sandwich, or rent a car/house/skateboard without required paid govt paperwork.

then i try to do well within that system.

unless 33 opposes ALL of the req'd govt spending, it's poor form to say "I'm okay with the govt requiring these 50 things, but I'm totally against this one..."

If you accept getting a license to drive, you've already submitted.

[240 is Back]

You are not forced to drive!   YOU HAVE THE CHOICE NOT TO DO SO IF YOU DONT LIKE!     

are you saying employers are FORCED to hire people?   They have the choice not to open a business, right?  Once you decide to open a biz, you have to play by the govt's shitty rules.


same if you wannt drive - you play by the shitty rules of the DMV.
same if you want to so most things - ID, SS card, etc.

you want to fight the system.  I see it as something that's been here 250 years and ain't changing for you.

[Shockwave]

you can accept the CONSTRAINTS and try to succeed within them.

I can accept i can't drive a car, buy a sandwich, or rent a car/house/skateboard without required paid govt paperwork.

then i try to do well within that system.

unless 33 opposes ALL of the req'd govt spending, it's poor form to say "I'm okay with the govt requiring these 50 things, but I'm totally against this one..."

If you accept getting a license to drive, you've already submitted.

Not really, considering the government is trying to set a precendent dealing with the right to practice religious beliefs.
This isnt another "you have to pay us 50c tax for every dollar you make cause were the government" deal -
Its a "We dont care what youre religious beliefs are, you have to offer BC (which ISNT something people require for healthy living) for free for your employees."
The government is basically telling a religious organization that they HAVE TO OFFER something that isnt a basic human need, and which flies in the face of their beliefs. And why? When they can go anywhere else and get it for practically nothing?
This reeks of a power struggle to me.

[Soul Crusher]

are you saying employers are FORCED to hire people?   They have the choice not to open a business, right?  Once you decide to open a biz, you have to play by the govt's shitty rules.


same if you wannt drive - you play by the shitty rules of the DMV.
same if you want to so most things - ID, SS card, etc.

you want to fight the system.  I see it as something that's been here 250 years and ain't changing for you.

You really are unbelievable.   You are no different than someone with a slave mentality.  Just let the govt and obama your life right?   


Like i said - you did not forget anything two weeks ago - you are voting for Obama and probably already a monthly contributor.     

[240 is Back]

but what happens when an amish employer says he doesn't believe in electricity, and makes employees work in the heat?

what if an employer is muslim and requires female employees to wear that headgear?

IMO, it's a slippery slope.  Once you allow an employer to judge what is "required for healthy living" as you put it... it's slippery!

[howardroark]

but what happens when an amish employer says he doesn't believe in electricity, and makes employees work in the heat?

what if an employer is muslim and requires female employees to wear that headgear?

IMO, it's a slippery slope.  Once you allow an employer to judge what is "required for healthy living" as you put it... it's slippery!

Guess what. If you don't want a job then don't take it.

The government has no right to force you to employ someone against your own will. That is the height of tyranny.

[Soul Crusher]

but what happens when an amish employer says he doesn't believe in electricity, and makes employees work in the heat?

what if an employer is muslim and requires female employees to wear that headgear?

IMO, it's a slippery slope.  Once you allow an employer to judge what is "required for healthy living" as you put it... it's slippery!

Fine by me!    You dont have to work somewhere if you dont like!   If you go work for the Catholic Church, dont you think its reasoble that they will be different than if you work for NOW or planned parenthood?  


Again - employers should have just as much rights as employees, if not more.   

[240 is Back]

Guess what. If you don't want a job then don't take it.

The government has no right to force you to employ someone against your own will. That is the height of tyranny.

the govt does it with hiring quotas, don't they?

and you're saying it's OKAY if some arab dude buys your employer tomorrow and forces you to wear an al-jazeera t-shirt all day?

[Soul Crusher]

the govt does it with hiring quotas, don't they?

and you're saying it's OKAY if some arab dude buys your employer tomorrow and forces you to wear an al-jazeera t-shirt all day?

Yes!   And when everyone quits and they collapse from within, they will get what they deserve. 

[240 is Back]

Fine by me!    You dont have to work somewhere if you dont like!   If you go work for the Catholic Church, dont you think its reasoble that they will be different than if you work for NOW or planned parenthood?  
Again - employers should have just as much rights as employees, if not more.  

I dunno, I think if your boss (if you had one) said you had to wear this "Obama 2012" headband to court for the next year, because it didn't violate what was needed for healthy living - because it 'met his religious requirements to vote liberal"..... you'd be pretty upset.

it's easy to say 'just quit!'   but what if you need that job?

[howardroark]

the govt does it with hiring quotas, don't they?

and you're saying it's OKAY if some arab dude buys your employer tomorrow and forces you to wear an al-jazeera t-shirt all day?

Hahahaha, sure, fine by me. That's a really, really bad business decision, but if they do that all I can do is stand back and watch. I certainly won't steal their money or force them to "employ" me simply because I disagree with the way they run their business.

[240 is Back]

Yes!   And when everyone quits and they collapse from within, they will get what they deserve.  

the emplyer has the power in this economy.

i just hate giving religion this kind of blanket power.  I dont know why yall don't realize it's the doorway to sharia law.  And it is the lib complaining about it!

[240 is Back]

Hahahaha, sure, fine by me. That's a really, really bad business decision, but if they do that all I can do is stand back and watch. I certainly won't steal their money or force them to "employ" me simply because I disagree with the way they run their business.

man, the minute you let the employer start dictating shit like this on religious basis...

wait til your boss reads the koran over the loudspeaker all day.  wait til something like that happens.

letting religion into lawmaking is nuts.  just crazy. 

[Soul Crusher]

the emplyer has the power in this economy.

i just hate giving religion this kind of blanket power.  I dont know why yall don't realize it's the doorway to sharia law.  And it is the lib complaining about it!

Oh please.   

[Soul Crusher]

man, the minute you let the employer start dictating shit like this on religious basis...

wait til your boss reads the koran over the loudspeaker all day.  wait til something like that happens.

letting religion into lawmaking is nuts.  just crazy. 

I subject my assistant to slayer, megadeth, black sabbath, and satanic music.

if she cant deal with it, she will quit,   

[howardroark]

man, the minute you let the employer start dictating shit like this on religious basis...

wait til your boss reads the koran over the loudspeaker all day.  wait til something like that happens.

letting religion into lawmaking is nuts.  just crazy. 

How is allowing employers to freely choose how to spend their own money the same AT ALL to "letting religion into lawmaking"