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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on January 24, 2008, 08:30:18 PM
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A repub congressman defending the war mentioned this tonight on MSNBC.
I instantly had two conflicting thoughts....
1) Wow, that's a good enough reason to bomb him into next year, and
2) Would we shoot at russian or chinese or iranian planes, if they flew 500+ times over our country?
what are your thoughts on this one? I know he's dead and gone, but the repubs are using THIS as the reason we should have invaded in light of no WMD, so it is relevant.
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That's no reason.
Saddam was one predictable thing. He would not do anything that might cause he removal from power. That would include, harboring terrorists, or using WMD's. (very different from religious nut jobs who want to die)
Let's just face facts. BUSH found a way to justify going into Iraq. He believed democracy would flourish there and the oil companies loved him for that and took full advantage of the opportunity along with many other entities.
Now we really can't leave.
And you have to ask yourself, was it worth it?
- almost 500 billion in debt
- 10 of thousands of lives lost
- No end in sight
- And gas when up anyway.
So if the 80 trillion in oil is as you say, i guess our rich stay richer and we "feel" safer. ::)
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That's no reason.
Saddam was one predictable thing. He would not do anything that might cause he removal from power. That would include, harboring terrorists, or using WMD's. (very different from religious nut jobs who want to die)
Let's just face facts. BUSH found a way to justify going into Iraq. He believed democracy would flourish there and the oil companies loved him for that and took full advantage of the opportunity along with many other entities.
Now we really can't leave.
And you have to ask yourself, was it worth it?
- almost 500 billion in debt
- 10 of thousands of lives lost
- No end in sight
- And gas when up anyway.
So if the 80 trillion in oil is as you say, i guess our rich stay richer and we "feel" safer. ::)
BS Post.
I don't hear anyone complaining about the $$$ wasted over the last 30 years by dems in a failed education system, welfare, blowing our social security money, funding absurd programs that go nowhere and do nothing, etc. I think a war destroying our enemies, destroying terrorists, and creating a massive presence in the middle of a part of the world bent on the west's demise is a little more worth while.
You must be counting all of those assholes we're fighting in that death toll. Hardly a good argument. Lowest casualties on our side of ANY major conflict.
"No end in sight" means nothing.. absolutely ziltch. I wonder how many times that was said in EVERY OTHER WAR SINCE THE DAWN OF MAN.
War or no war.. there's enough oil on this continent to sustain us for over 300 years. The idiot dems won't let us get at it by pretending it would destroy the environment.
And in regards to the argument at hand:
Clinton established operations Northern and Southern watch after the first gulf war. We patrolled Iraq since after that conflict. When Saddam began rebuilding his military right under our noses he started shooting at our patrols. Clinton did nothing. Bush did. Not just for that reason but you could add that to an already massive list to destroy Iraq.
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America is bankrupt.
It's borrowing BILLIONS everyday (that it will have to repay) and people are still thinking up reasons as to why America went to war in Iraq 5 years after it started? ::)
It's costing a trillion dollars a year to keep the empire going and people think that war has no effect on the economy?!
Before the war oil was cheaper than it is now and there was no threat to the supply, it's not the Iraqi's were gonna drink the stuff, they'd sell to whoever wants to buy it.
It's time to stop finding excuses as to why the war started, get out and focus on the economy.
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BS Post.
::)
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I have no understanding of economics but the little I do understand must be Bush's fault because someone else told me.
::) Accuracy
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::) Accuracy
You'll wake up one day my friend. :)
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War or no war.. there's enough oil on this continent to sustain us for over 300 years. The idiot dems won't let us get at it by pretending it would destroy the environment.
Repubs owned white house and congress for 6 straight years, 2000 til 2006.
Why didn't they ignore the silly dems and do what was right by driling for oil at that time?
Very hard to blame the party that has no power, dude.
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Repubs owned white house and congress for 6 straight years, 2000 til 2006.
Why didn't they ignore the silly dems and do what was right by driling for oil at that time?
Very hard to blame the party that has no power, dude.
Yet another reason the GOP pisses me off from time to time by not getting enough done and not following through on the agenda they were elected for.
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BS Post.
I don't hear anyone complaining about the $$$ wasted over the last 30 years by dems in a failed education system, welfare, blowing our social security money, funding absurd programs that go nowhere and do nothing, etc.
Then maybe you need to get out more and take your blinders off. Heaven forbid we sunk 500 billion into our education system.
I think a war destroying our enemies, destroying terrorists, and creating a massive presence in the middle of a part of the world bent on the west's demise is a little more worth while
More worthwhile than securing our borders? More worth while than educating our children? More worth while than ensuring every child in the greatest country int he world gets health care?
I don't think so. It's only worth while to short sighted people who think a presence in Afghanistan wasn't enough.
The problem is that it's too late for that. We are stuck in Iraq.
You must be counting all of those assholes we're fighting in that death toll. Hardly a good argument. Lowest casualties on our side of ANY major conflict.
Sorry, i counted innocent dead iraqis and wounded and maimed US service men. Guess they they don;t count to you.
"No end in sight" means nothing.. absolutely ziltch. I wonder how many times that was said in EVERY OTHER WAR SINCE THE DAWN OF MAN.
More evidence you don't have any real understanding of what's going on over there as you actually compare this to other wars.
War or no war.. there's enough oil on this continent to sustain us for over 300 years. The idiot dems won't let us get at it by pretending it would destroy the environment.
pretending? ::) again more evidence of brainwashing. It won't destroy anything, it will take away from it that's all. I say take their oil first.
Clinton established operations Northern and Southern watch after the first gulf war. We patrolled Iraq since after that conflict. When Saddam began rebuilding his military right under our noses he started shooting at our patrols. Clinton did nothing. Bush did. Not just for that reason but you could add that to an already massive list to destroy Iraq.
More evidence of a tool, blaming Clinton. ::)
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Then maybe you need to get out more and take your blinders off. Heaven forbid we sunk 500 billion into our education system.
I'm out.. no blinders. I know you people don't like hearing logic and the truth.
More worthwhile than securing our borders? More worth while than educating our children? More worth while than ensuring every child in the greatest country int he world gets health care?
Somehow by being in Iraq we shitcanned our education system? lol.. as if soldiers would be here teaching instead or even better the money being spent in defense would change something if it was thrown at the educational establishment. Yeah we already tried that.. didn't work. This is the dumbest argument ever. All of the above is important and we'd be doing the same shit iraq or no.
I don't think so. It's only worth while to short sighted people who think a presence in Afghanistan wasn't enough.
okay ::)
The problem is that it's too late for that. We are stuck in Iraq.
I know right? I mean, who knew this was gonna be difficult?!?! Jeez.. ;D
Sorry, i counted innocent dead iraqis and wounded and maimed US service men. Guess they they don;t count to you.
So you distorted the facts and then pretended I was some heartless schmoe.. typical liberal.
More evidence you don't have any real understanding of what's going on over there as you actually compare this to other wars.
More evidence of your refusal to accept that something good might actually come out of this.
pretending? ::) again more evidence of brainwashing. It won't destroy anything, it will take away from it that's all. I say take their oil first.
It won't... modern drilling methods barely destroy any land and the benefits are astronomical. Only a fool would try to stop this.
More evidence of a tool, blaming Clinton. ::)
I could blame so much more of the mess we're in today on Clinton it's not even funny. It's obvious you haven't even looked into the amount of crap that guy got us into. At the top of that list is the war on terror and the fact that he had done NOTHING. But your personal hatred of Bush clouds your ability to see that recent problems could be anyone elses mess.
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Clinton got us into the wrong side of alot of shit. Its kinda funny that the muslims completely forget that we helped, along with the rest of Nato, in Bosnia. We saved them from being completely wiped out. I;'m sure there are plenty of Serbs who, after looking at our last few years in the Middle East, are wonder what that was all about and telling us, " I told u So".
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The 'no-fly zones' in Iraq were establish by the US primarily and have no legal basis.
I swear, the US just makes shit up as it goes along.
Clinton did a lot of stupid things and this is one of them.
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I'm out.. no blinders. I know you people don't like hearing logic and the truth.
you people? ::)
Somehow by being in Iraq we shitcanned our education system? lol.. as if soldiers would be here teaching instead or even better the money being spent in defense would change something if it was thrown at the educational establishment. Yeah we already tried that.. didn't work. This is the dumbest argument ever. All of the above is important and we'd be doing the same shit iraq or no.
No the dumbest argument is you saying spending money on education wouldn't help it. Have you looked at our rankings in the world on education? Do you think if we put more money there to pay teachers and keep educational programs that are being cut every day it wouldn't raise our standing? Or is that too complex for you to understand?
I know right? I mean, who knew this was gonna be difficult?!?! Jeez.. Grin
Actually i didn't think it was until some dumbass (Rumsfeld) sent too few troops and had only one aftermath plan that involved PC ROE's.
So you distorted the facts and then pretended I was some heartless schmoe.. typical liberal.
You are what you are. I didn't distort anything.
This is what i said:
- 10 of thousands of lives lost
Explain to me how i distorted anything.
Are you saying an innocent Iraqi life is somehow less important? Your answer speaks for its self.
More evidence of your refusal to accept that something good might actually come out of this.
Yeah, but at what expense?
and this is what you said:
"No end in sight" means nothing.. absolutely ziltch. I wonder how many times that was said in EVERY OTHER WAR SINCE THE DAWN OF MAN.
Which means you are comparing it others wars. there is no comparison. It's not even a war. It's an insurgency. We won the war. the war we are fighting is not anything like the wars we fought before.
We are dealing with infighting religious nut jobs. This shit will continue against us like it has for between them for hundreds of years.
It won't... modern drilling methods barely destroy any land and the benefits are astronomical. Only a fool would try to stop this.
No, only a fool wouldn't use someone else's oil first. And you are well brainwashed by your conservative blow hards regarding what drilling does to an environment, granted it's much better, but still damaging.
I could blame so much more of the mess we're in today on Clinton it's not even funny. It's obvious you haven't even looked into the amount of crap that guy got us into. At the top of that list is the war on terror and the fact that he had done NOTHING. But your personal hatred of Bush clouds your ability to see that recent problems could be anyone else's mess.
We are in this mess becuase of Bush's decision to invade Iraq and the decisions afterwards. What ever Clinton did or didn't do had little to do with an attack that was coming and we couldn't stop. Even if he gets OBL, so what? Like that would have stopped anything.
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"We are in this mess becuase of Bush's decision to invade Iraq and the decisions afterwards. What ever Clinton did or didn't do had little to do with an attack that was coming and we couldn't stop. Even if he gets OBL, so what? Like that would have stopped anything"
It had alot to do..it had everything to do with 911. OBL stated that he thought the US was a paper tiger after Somalia..one major pitched battle, and we pulled out. That fired him and his organization up...if Bill smokes him in 1998..that puts a major dent in AQ and maybe the attacks don't take place. Maybe the Taliban get rolled over by the Northern Alliance and we don't have to invade. Masoud lives....it has everything to do with Clinton. Each mistake...going back to Carter builds on itself. There is plenty to blame here. 911 did not happen ina vaccum.
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"We are in this mess becuase of Bush's decision to invade Iraq and the decisions afterwards. What ever Clinton did or didn't do had little to do with an attack that was coming and we couldn't stop. Even if he gets OBL, so what? Like that would have stopped anything"
It had alot to do..it had everything to do with 911. OBL stated that he thought the US was a paper tiger after Somalia..one major pitched battle, and we pulled out. That fired him and his organization up...if Bill smokes him in 1998..that puts a major dent in AQ and maybe the attacks don't take place. Maybe the Taliban get rolled over by the Northern Alliance and we don't have to invade. Masoud lives....it has everything to do with Clinton. Each mistake...going back to Carter builds on itself. There is plenty to blame here. 911 did not happen ina vaccum.
HH6, hindsight is 20/20. That's easy to say. Had we done our job then, there would have been others taking that torch. HecK you could blame OBL parents for if ya wanted to. Some one wrote a while back on this forum that we are in a cultural war so to speak. I think they are right. OBL is simply one in an ant's nest.
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Its not hindsight...if they got him in 98, things in Afghanistan would have be radically different. Regardless Clinton has a major share in the blame for 911. Its a historical debate..no question. The point now is what is to be done in Iraq. We are winning..will that continue? Will the Dems take power and then allow us to finish. Will a pull-out invite more home attacks down the road?
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Its not hindsight...if they got him in 98, things in Afghanistan would have be radically different. Regardless Clinton has a major share in the blame for 911. Its a historical debate..no question. The point now is what is to be done in Iraq. We are winning..will that continue? Will the Dems take power and then allow us to finish. Will a pull-out invite more home attacks down the road?
Well it is hindsight, because we are saying we should have got OBL becuase of what he was going to do. How does Clinton or anyone know that then? Had he known.... of course he takes him out. Besides there may have been other factors in OBL's release becuase of relations with the Saudi royal family
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Well it is hindsight, because we are saying we should have got OBL becuase of what he was going to do. How does Clinton or anyone know that then? Had he known.... of course he takes him out. Besides there may have been other factors in OBL's release becuase of relations with the Saudi royal family
This directly relates to my earlier posts about removing problems BEFORE they get bigger. Exactly why Saddams destruction was so important.
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you people? ::)
Liberals.. such as yourself.
No the dumbest argument is you saying spending money on education wouldn't help it. Have you looked at our rankings in the world on education? Do you think if we put more money there to pay teachers and keep educational programs that are being cut every day it wouldn't raise our standing? Or is that too complex for you to understand?
We've been throwing money at the Education system for years and we're failing worse than ever. YOU CANNOT JUST THROW MONEY AT THIS PROBLEM. Never worked, never will. On that note, Bush signed the largest education bill in US history yet I don't hear any praise for that. I have to assume you ignored it since it didn't support your hate filled agenda.
Actually i didn't think it was until some dumbass (Rumsfeld) sent too few troops and had only one aftermath plan that involved PC ROE's.
Because your liberal cohorts stiffled every attempt to properly support the war from the beginning. Yet another easy to understand point that you conveniently forget about.
You are what you are. I didn't distort anything.
Other than the truth...
Explain to me how i distorted anything.
You included the deaths of iraqi militants, insurgents and terrorists in that casualty list like it's a BAD thing. That's like saying it was a bad thing that 100,000 nazis died in WW2 or 400,000 Vietcong and NVA died in 'nam. (just for example)
That's distorting the facts plain and simple and you know it.
Are you saying an innocent Iraqi life is somehow less important? Your answer speaks for its self.
No, I'm saying we should be concerned with OUR citizens first, OUR soldiers second, innocent deaths third.
Yeah, but at what expense?
Nat'l security is the most important issue, period. Always will be. It's kinda hard to debate any other issue when terrorists and enemies are trying to kill you or your allies.
Which means you are comparing it others wars. there is no comparison. It's not even a war. It's an insurgency. We won the war. the war we are fighting is not anything like the wars we fought before.
Yes there is definitely a comparison.. but I can see how badly you want to separate the two since without doing so your argument is thin as paper.
We are dealing with infighting religious nut jobs. This shit will continue against us like it has for between them for hundreds of years.
Better to fight religious nut jobs in Iraq while they can't reach us with soldiers than in NYC, or DC after the fact, and with civilians.
No, only a fool wouldn't use someone else's oil first. And you are well brainwashed by your conservative blow hards regarding what drilling does to an environment, granted it's much better, but still damaging.
So you WANT us to be dependent on foreign oil.. interesting. Esp. at a time when we need to be as self sufficient as possible. And no the damage to the environment is so minimal no one can come up with a good argument otherwise... do some research on it.
We are in this mess becuase of Bush's decision to invade Iraq and the decisions afterwards. What ever Clinton did or didn't do had little to do with an attack that was coming and we couldn't stop. Even if he gets OBL, so what? Like that would have stopped anything.
see HH6's post... right on the money.
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Liberals.. such as yourself.
We've been throwing money at the Education system for years and we're failing worse than ever. YOU CANNOT JUST THROW MONEY AT THIS PROBLEM. Never worked, never will. On that note, Bush signed the largest education bill in US history yet I don't hear any praise for that. I have to assume you ignored it since it didn't support your hate filled agenda.
Because your liberal cohorts stiffled every attempt to properly support the war from the beginning. Yet another easy to understand point that you conveniently forget about.
Other than the truth...
You included the deaths of iraqi militants, insurgents and terrorists in that casualty list like it's a BAD thing. That's like saying it was a bad thing that 100,000 nazis died in WW2 or 400,000 Vietcong and NVA died in 'nam. (just for example)
That's distorting the facts plain and simple and you know it.
No, I'm saying we should be concerned with OUR citizens first, OUR soldiers second, innocent deaths third.
Nat'l security is the most important issue, period. Always will be. It's kinda hard to debate any other issue when terrorists and enemies are trying to kill you or your allies.
Yes there is definitely a comparison.. but I can see how badly you want to separate the two since without doing so your argument is thin as paper.
Better to fight religious nut jobs in Iraq while they can't reach us with soldiers than in NYC, or DC after the fact, and with civilians.
So you WANT us to be dependent on foreign oil.. interesting. Esp. at a time when we need to be as self sufficient as possible. And no the damage to the environment is so minimal no one can come up with a good argument otherwise... do some research on it.
see HH6's post... right on the money.
I dont know if you know this but most Republicans want America out of Iraq and think it wasnt worth the blood and money. Ron Paul was the only guy to get an applause when he was asked his opinion on the war. You are in the minority.
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I dont know if you know this but most Republicans want America out of Iraq and think it wasnt worth the blood and money. Ron Paul was the only guy to get an applause when he was asked his opinion on the war. You are in the minority.
Feeble attempts from the GOP to distance themselves from an unpopular president should be a pretty obvious example of politicians doing what politicians do.. worrying about votes. It's the smart move. Not being one allows me to say whatever I want including that I think most repubs not only want victory in Iraq but want Iran to be next. But we all know even if that was the case none of them would say it. It's understandable.
Nevertheless, being in the minority of anything doesn't mean much compared to being factual, logical, and right.
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This directly relates to my earlier posts about removing problems BEFORE they get bigger. Exactly why Saddams destruction was so important.
Brix, are you implying guilty by intention?
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Liberals.. such as yourself.
What makes me liberal?
We've been throwing money at the Education system for years and we're failing worse than ever. YOU CANNOT JUST THROW MONEY AT THIS PROBLEM. Never worked, never will. On that note, Bush signed the largest education bill in US history yet I don't hear any praise for that. I have to assume you ignored it since it didn't support your hate filled agenda.
Did i infer we should trow money at the education problem?
I honestly believe we could have a great education system if spent the money properly, and we could even have health care for every child with out raising taxes.
Butt, the truth remains, 500 billion spent properly in this country would change it over night. If it was ran like a Warren Buffet company, we wouldn't waste crap and we get shit done.
Because your liberal cohorts stiffled every attempt to properly support the war from the beginning. Yet another easy to understand point that you conveniently forget about.
This is where your understanding about things shows how brain washed you are.
It was Bush's final say and Rumsfield call. PERIOD. You are trying to tell me, liberals have that much control over BUSH? Are you fucking kidding me? If so, Pelosi would have been named President by Bush by now.
Wake up brix.
You included the deaths of iraqi militants, insurgents and terrorists in that casualty list like it's a BAD thing. That's like saying it was a bad thing that 100,000 nazis died in WW2 or 400,000 Vietcong and NVA died in 'nam. (just for example)
That's distorting the facts plain and simple and you know it.
Show me where i said, iraqi militants, insurgents and terrorists.... or i said not including or what ever.... If i didn't say it i didn't mean it. the fact stands thousands have died. do you deny that? Do you deny that some of those are innocent, thousand of them?
At least have the courage to debate what i actually say, not what your brain washed mind thinks i said, or supports your programming.
Better to fight religious nut jobs in Iraq while they can't reach us with soldiers than in NYC, or DC after the fact, and with civilians.
you are kidding again right? You really think they are "ALL" in iraq fighting there? What do they gain by killing with an IED versus blowing up a shopping mall in the USA? Use some common sense, the shopping mall iis 1000 times better and more damaging. Do you really think our borders are secure? You are such an entertaining tool.
So you WANT us to be dependent on foreign oil.. interesting. Esp. at a time when we need to be as self sufficient as possible. And no the damage to the environment is so minimal no one can come up with a good argument otherwise... do some research on it.
Hmmm let's see, we were Dependant on it before and gas was $1.69. Now we are all over it, and it's $3.
Yeah ok, you are swallowing the BS about demand and how they can;t keep up with it while Exxon posts 9 billion in profits. right.
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What makes me liberal?
What doesn't? So far you've touted every liberal idea about the current president, education system, and national security. Tell us why you are NOT liberal.
Did i infer we should trow money at the education problem?
I honestly believe we could have a great education system if spent the money properly, and we could even have health care for every child with out raising taxes.
Yes, actually you did.. by saying the money would better spent trying to fix it. I love how you try to forget the shit that you've been saying mere hours later though.. very classy.
Butt, the truth remains, 500 billion spent properly in this country would change it over night. If it was ran like a Warren Buffet company, we wouldn't waste crap and we get shit done.
Dream on buddy.. the money isn't the problem. Another liberal idealist mindset "the money will fix it."
This is where your understanding about things shows how brain washed you are.
Being better informed doesn't equal brainwashing. Sorry :)
It was Bush's final say and Rumsfield call. PERIOD. You are trying to tell me, liberals have that much control over BUSH? Are you fucking kidding me? If so, Pelosi would have been named President by Bush by now.
Yeah, even in the face of severe opposition it was the right thing to do. I was just pointing out how dems were once again the problem, not the solution.
Wake up brix.
Show me where i said, iraqi militants, insurgents and terrorists.... or i said not including or what ever.... If i didn't say it i didn't mean it. the fact stands thousands have died. do you deny that? Do you deny that some of those are innocent, thousand of them?
Oh gimmie a break.. you know exactly what you tried to do. Including bad guys deaths in the total just to make your complaint seem more relevant. Some of those in EVERY war are innocent. Does that mean every war we've fought has accomplished nothing? Another stupid argument, thanks.
At least have the courage to debate what i actually say, not what your brain washed mind thinks i said, or supports your programming.
I did, see above. (Again with the brain washing, huh? Running out of things to say or it makes you really angry to have your arguments blow up in your face and you be exposed as just another lefty bush hater.)
you are kidding again right? You really think they are "ALL" in iraq fighting there? What do they gain by killing with an IED versus blowing up a shopping mall in the USA? Use some common sense, the shopping mall iis 1000 times better and more damaging. Do you really think our borders are secure? You are such an entertaining tool.
Well, obviously, MANY are there. And being slaughtered by our troops. If you don't understand why they're flooding there I don't have time to explain it to you. Do some more research as to WHY and get back to me.
Hmmm let's see, we were Dependant on it before and gas was $1.69. Now we are all over it, and it's $3.
So now you don't understand war AND economics.. not surprising. Let's start with.. we haven't been allowed to build a refinery in 20 years.
Yeah ok, you are swallowing the BS about demand and how they can;t keep up with it while Exxon posts 9 billion in profits. right.
Once agian... economics have failed you.
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dumber than a ton of Brix.
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What doesn't? So far you've touted every liberal idea about the current president, education system, and national security. Tell us why you are NOT liberal.
Wow so becuase i think we should have a better education system and spend money on home land security instead of invading iraq that makes me a liberal?
::)
Yes, actually you did.. by saying the money would better spent trying to fix it. I love how you try to forget the shit that you've been saying mere hours later though.. very classy.
I've been very consistent saying this for some time. I don;t think we need to raise taxes. Beach Bum's, Democratic Governor in Hawaii took a deficit to a surplus without raising taxes. It can be done, but people need to get out of the pasture and work together with out dumbing them selves down to lib vs neo-con
Dream on buddy.. the money isn't the problem. Another liberal idealist mindset "the money will fix it."
So are you trying to say the money is spent properly? ::)
Oh gimmie a break.. you know exactly what you tried to do. Including bad guys deaths in the total just to make your complaint seem more relevant. Some of those in EVERY war are innocent. Does that mean every war we've fought has accomplished nothing? Another stupid argument, thanks.
No, you incorrectly assumed becuase your bias for perceived liberals mimics the basics of racism.
I did, see above. (Again with the brain washing, huh? Running out of things to say or it makes you really angry to have your arguments blow up in your face and you be exposed as just another lefty bush hater.)
Still running sacred.
Well, obviously, MANY are there. And being slaughtered by our troops. If you don't understand why they're flooding there I don't have time to explain it to you. Do some more research as to WHY and get back to me.
No, A significant terrorist act can take as little as one person to perform. A military act, to be significant takes many people. We are not tying down every single person.
So now you don't understand war AND economics.. not surprising. Let's start with.. we haven't been allowed to build a refinery in 20 years.
Our(USA) demand has gone up 100% in 8 years? ::)
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Wow so becuase i think we should have a better education system and spend money on home land security instead of invading iraq that makes me a liberal?
::)
Maybe you mean border security since homeland security is apparently doing it's job. I think your objection to ANYTHING Bush does, your lack of economic understanding, along with other posts from you since I've been on Getbig have exposed you for being liberal.. they aren't necessarily the definition of liberal.
I've been very consistent saying this for some time. I don;t think we need to raise taxes. Beach Bum's, Democratic Governor in Hawaii took a deficit to a surplus without raising taxes. It can be done, but people need to get out of the pasture and work together with out dumbing them selves down to lib vs neo-con
What the hell does any of that have to do with the fact that you think we can't fix the educational system in any way other than throwing money at it and fight a war at the same time? Are you still forgetting your original statement?
So are you trying to say the money is spent properly? ::)
As far as the educational system goes we've made a massive improvement (starting with no child left behind, thank you Bush). My point is that what's left to fix is more a matter of policy and standards instead of funding.
No, you incorrectly assumed becuase your bias for perceived liberals mimics the basics of racism.
Lol.. another typical liberal move. I make a point showing how you attempted to skew the figures to support your argument and you call me a racist!! OMG, everytime I want to give you the benefit of the doubt you open your mouth and ruin it. ah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!
Still running sacred.
um.. what?
No, A significant terrorist act can take as little as one person to perform. A military act, to be significant takes many people. We are not tying down every single person.
"A military act, to be significant takes many people." Lemme make this big since I know you're a little short on grey matter..
IS THIS NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING??? ARE WE NOT SLAUGHTERING RADICAL ISLAM BY THE THOUSANDS!!! ARE THESE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WREAKING HAVOC ALL OVER THE WORLD FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS!!!
Our(USA) demand has gone up 100% in 8 years? ::)
Inflation, war, increasing demand and a slumping market (although no where near a recession despite what you may hear from the lefts fear tactics) all contribute to high prices. Combine that with being unable to access oil right here on this continent no thanks to the democrats and you have the formula for high and increasing prices. Tell me, why should we have to pay more by being forced to buy from the middle east instead of drilling here on land comparitively the size of a postage stamp in a baseball field and being set for decades, possibly even centuries?
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Maybe you mean border security since homeland security is apparently doing it's job. I think your objection to ANYTHING Bush does, your lack of economic understanding, along with other posts from you since I've been on Getbig have exposed you for being liberal.. they aren't necessarily the definition of liberal.
Lock up the children Martha, he might be a liberal! Was not Christ liberal in his teachings?
What the hell does any of that have to do with the fact that you think we can't fix the educational system in any way other than throwing money at it and fight a war at the same time? Are you still forgetting your original statement?
Did Bush throw money at education when he funded No Child Left Behind?
As far as the educational system goes we've made a massive improvement (starting with no child left behind, thank you Bush). My point is that what's left to fix is more a matter of policy and standards instead of funding.
The educational system still blows. Did you miss the fact that Bush cut funding for NCLB--his own program? Thank you Mr. Bush.
Inflation, war, increasing demand and a slumping market (although no where near a recession despite what you may hear from the lefts fear tactics) all contribute to high prices. Combine that with being unable to access oil right here on this continent no thanks to the democrats and you have the formula for high and increasing prices. Tell me, why should we have to pay more by being forced to buy from the middle east instead of drilling here on land comparitively the size of a postage stamp in a baseball field and being set for decades, possibly even centuries?
You do know about the economic cycle right? Expansion, recession and so on. There was one recession on Bush's watch already. What's a recession? 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth...that's all.
Acces to a little bit of oil right here on this continent is not going to change the economic cycle.
Bush & company's policies have been to funnel as much government dollars into the private hands of few people as possible. He's had the Chrmn of the Fed depress interest rates to keep his con game afloat. Ridiculous Tax Cuts and irrepsonsible spending have doubled the National Debt and hurt this country for years to come.
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Maybe you mean border security since homeland security is apparently doing it's job. I think your objection to ANYTHING Bush does, your lack of economic understanding, along with other posts from you since I've been on Getbig have exposed you for being liberal.. they aren't necessarily the definition of liberal.
My lack of economic understanding? No it's my lack of economic programming and acceptance. BTW, Shell just posted record profits in the 10's of billions. So as oil companies are raking in the dough you are convinced it's proper and justified as you pay $3 a gallon. And i bet you blame liberals for the poor oil companies not being able to build refineries in the US too as if that's the only place to build them.
Also, border security is part of homeland security and it's bad. And we haven't been attacked becuase the threat isn't as bad as we have been led to believe. NOT, that we need our guard down, the point is, OUR GUARD IS DOWN! some of the billions spent on this unneeded war in Iraq could seal up our borders and our airports. For less than $10,000 a person could stop air traffic in the USA again for a week. Easy. It's an illusion what homeland security is doing at the airports.
What the hell does any of that have to do with the fact that you think we can't fix the educational system in any way other than throwing money at it and fight a war at the same time? Are you still forgetting your original statement?
Well, i have children, who go to a private school. I'm fortunate, becuase of my efforts that i can do that. In public schools, our education system is ranked very low. We have over crowded class rooms, crappy outdated old text books, under paid teachers, and school programs are being cut every day. What part of that don't you understand? Are you so thick headed you refuse to even acknowledge the problems becuase you are so politically biased? Yes, money would help that in a great way. Even then, if the money that they do get now was spent better it would raise the quality of our education.
It's obvious to me that is beyond your understanding. Or maybe, saying anything other than towing BUSH's line comes makes you a liberal in your book.
I guess you really do buy into the for us or against us principle don't you? That's why i call you a blunt instrument.
As far as the educational system goes we've made a massive improvement (starting with no child left behind, thank you Bush). My point is that what's left to fix is more a matter of policy and standards instead of funding.
Does policy and standards "fund" a music program?
Does policy and standards "fund" a new athletic events track?
Does policy and standards "fund" a updated text books?
Does policy and standards "fund" more teachers resulting in smaller class rooms?
better healthier food?
I could go on and on.
Spending the money properly without creating an over weight bureaucracy frees up funds to in those areas. But not near the level that will makes a significant difference unfortunately.
How about college? how about funding scholarships so our country stays ahead in technology and new sciences? How much will a few 10's of billions go in helping worthy intelligent students who cannot afford it?
How about better roads?
I could on and on.
Lol.. another typical liberal move. I make a point showing how you attempted to skew the figures to support your argument and you call me a racist!! OMG, everytime I want to give you the benefit of the doubt you open your mouth and ruin it. ah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!
You made an assumption. If you can't show me you got nothing but what i said, which is thousands have died. But as blunt tool, that doesn't bother you.
another weak pathetic attempt. Shows you desperation. But that's ok, go to yoru local bar and sit with your other unintelligent blunt tools and compare your pick up trucks.
"A military act, to be significant takes many people." Lemme make this big since I know you're a little short on grey matter..
IS THIS NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING??? ARE WE NOT SLAUGHTERING RADICAL ISLAM BY THE THOUSANDS!!! ARE THESE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WREAKING HAVOC ALL OVER THE WORLD FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS!!!
no.
These are many new recruits resulting from our bumbling foreign policy. Included, foreign fighters they couldn't over wise get into the USA becuase those are religious blunt instruments, (you would relate), that aren't trained or adept enough to infiltrate and gain entrance into the USA and also included are insurgents, Iraqi civilians who opposed US occupation and are funded by other powerful entities in Iraq, religious or otherwise, including Iran who have much to gain is the US fails. The common thread all of these share is radical Islamic views whether they be for purely religious reasons or for the desire to gain power. Now the real threat are none of those above. Because if we didn't invade Iraq with Rummy's weak ass plan, they'd all be there getting it rammed up the anus by Saddam for his personal reasons of keeping his power.
The real threat is AQ. Which is in Iraq in a limited and not dominate basis thanks to the US military. AQ is a terrorist organization not a military force, or an insurgency. It only takes one AQ soldier to commit a terrorist act that can damage us greatly. It can happen at any time in our country and as i said before it would as easy as spending a few dollars. Securing our borders would go a long way to preventing that. The reason it hasn't is becuase we didi a great job in Afghanistan. We knock the crap out of them, financially and the country they had a haven in. The western world clamped down on them in away that was never seen before. Not that they aren't a threat. It's just they are not what the average brain washed drone like yourself are led to believe they are.
Only a person like you would think the Iraq war is preventing US terror attacks from happening.
Securing our borders would be a great place to start spending some money instead of pissing into Iraq.
Inflation, war, increasing demand and a slumping market (although no where near a recession despite what you may hear from the lefts fear tactics) all contribute to high prices. Combine that with being unable to access oil right here on this continent no thanks to the democrats and you have the formula for high and increasing prices. Tell me, why should we have to pay more by being forced to buy from the middle east instead of drilling here on land comparitively the size of a postage stamp in a baseball field and being set for decades, possibly even centuries?
If drilling can truly be done without screwing up the environment, I'm all for it. But i think it's BS propaganda. further more, Inflation si not the reason our gas is higher. Our gas is higher because people like you have been programmed to accept it based on the bull shit reasons they feed you.
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My lack of economic understanding? No it's my lack of economic programming and acceptance. BTW, Shell just posted record profits in the 10's of billions. So as oil companies are raking in the dough you are convinced it's proper and justified as you pay $3 a gallon. And i bet you blame liberals for the poor oil companies not being able to build refineries in the US too as if that's the only place to build them.
The free market justifies it.. not the government. Blaming Bush is a prime example of not understanding capitolism and accepting that as long as people will PAY three bucks per gallon then the price will BE three bucks per gallon.
You are another illogical liberal bent on blaming the admin.
Also, border security is part of homeland security and it's bad. And we haven't been attacked becuase the threat isn't as bad as we have been led to believe. NOT, that we need our guard down, the point is, OUR GUARD IS DOWN! some of the billions spent on this unneeded war in Iraq could seal up our borders and our airports. For less than $10,000 a person could stop air traffic in the USA again for a week. Easy. It's an illusion what homeland security is doing at the airports.
BS.. you gonna tell me AQ isn't trying? Or maybe you still haven't realized how much effort AQ is throwing at our troops in the middle east. If our guard is down the attempts that have been foiled so far would have gotten a lot farther than they did. DIDN'T HAPPEN. And as long as someone a terrorist fears is in the oval office (Bush) our chances of being hit severely (or at all) are greatly diminished. Border security is an issue, I will agree. And Bush, like everyone else so far, hasn't done enough about it. Let's just hope the next conservative in office will be more proactive (and pray no democrat wins the election since everyone knows how much of nothing will become of border security).
Well, i have children, who go to a private school. I'm fortunate, becuase of my efforts that i can do that. In public schools, our education system is ranked very low. We have over crowded class rooms, crappy outdated old text books, under paid teachers, and school programs are being cut every day. What part of that don't you understand? Are you so thick headed you refuse to even acknowledge the problems becuase you are so politically biased? Yes, money would help that in a great way. Even then, if the money that they do get now was spent better it would raise the quality of our education.
Sure is.. and my understanding is crystal. Just like the defecit the problem in the education system can be solved without throwing more money at the problem (since I have to say it again). The difference is WHERE the money goes num nuts.. and who it goes to.
It's obvious to me that is beyond your understanding. Or maybe, saying anything other than towing BUSH's line comes makes you a liberal in your book.
Nice Try. ;D
I guess you really do buy into the for us or against us principle don't you? That's why i call you a blunt instrument.
When times become dire and desperate.. when American lives are threatened and no one other than ourselves is gonna do anything about it don't you think that attitude is warrented? Or maybe you're so spineless you think more diplomacy would get somewhere.
Does policy and standards "fund" a music program?
Does policy and standards "fund" a new athletic events track?
Does policy and standards "fund" a updated text books?
Does policy and standards "fund" more teachers resulting in smaller class rooms?
better healthier food?
I could go on and on.
More "funds" aren't the problem for enforcing rules, guidelines, and standards.
More "funds" aren't the problem when allowing parents to take more responisibility for thier kids education.
More "funds" have been thrown at the current system than ever before and where are the results, hmm???
I could go on and on.
Spending the money properly without creating an over weight bureaucracy frees up funds to in those areas. But not near the level that will makes a significant difference unfortunately.
See above.. the problem isn't "how much." It's "to whom" and "to where" the money is being spent. This is so simple and yet it escapes you. Every increase has yielded minimal results. At what point are you willing to accept that more money does not fix this.. it is the nature of the system itself that needs to be changed before ANY significant difference can be made.
How about college? how about funding scholarships so our country stays ahead in technology and new sciences? How much will a few 10's of billions go in helping worthy intelligent students who cannot afford it?
How about better roads?
I could on and on.
We already have student loans. Higher education in this country is a business (and believe it or not the left likes it this way considering how much $$$ these schools rake in) and it is not the taxpayers role to fund education for people who should make every attempt to pay for it. And having said that, almost everyone who makes an effort to make the most out of school gets by on student loans can and do pay for it and pay off thier loans after graduating. This is not a society of hand outs.. this is a society of pay your way and pull your weight.
Better roads? Great... Federally funded roads are in excellent condition since you ask. As for the state and local roads it usually depends on the area. I've noticed that the more democratic (and higher taxed) the area the money never seems to make it to the repair crews while in the red states the roads are almost pristine. Riddle me that one Batman?
You made an assumption. If you can't show me you got nothing but what i said, which is thousands have died. But as blunt tool, that doesn't bother you.
No it doesn't bother me that my enemy, a murderous, torturous, and fanatical machine of human suffering, has died since that is apparently a huge tragedy to you. As for the others it is a sad and unfortunate side effect of the heavy price paid in any conflict.
another weak pathetic attempt. Shows you desperation. But that's ok, go to yoru local bar and sit with your other unintelligent blunt tools and compare your pick up trucks.
no.
I don't really like bars and I don't drive a pick up. Way to show the very kind of bias and prejudice that you just tried to accuse me of (you should really try harder to hide it since apparently an "unintelligent, blunt tool" like myself can see right through you). ;D
These are many new recruits resulting from our bumbling foreign policy. Included, foreign fighters they couldn't over wise get into the USA becuase those are religious blunt instruments, (you would relate), that aren't trained or adept enough to infiltrate and gain entrance into the USA and also included are insurgents, Iraqi civilians who opposed US occupation and are funded by other powerful entities in Iraq, religious or otherwise, including Iran who have much to gain is the US fails. The common thread all of these share is radical Islamic views whether they be for purely religious reasons or for the desire to gain power. Now the real threat are none of those above. Because if we didn't invade Iraq with Rummy's weak ass plan, they'd all be there getting it rammed up the anus by Saddam for his personal reasons of keeping his power.
I might consider agreeing with this statement if you ever pulled your head out of your ass long enough to see how much AQ is fueling this fire. I also find it interesting that you claim that none of these people are clever enough to infiltrate this country when in this very same post you piss and moan about how easy it is to get into this country. The argument is weak and exposes your hypocrisy.
The real threat is AQ. Which is in Iraq in a limited and not dominate basis thanks to the US military. AQ is a terrorist organization not a military force, or an insurgency. It only takes one AQ soldier to commit a terrorist act that can damage us greatly. It can happen at any time in our country and as i said before it would as easy as spending a few dollars. Securing our borders would go a long way to preventing that. The reason it hasn't is becuase we didi a great job in Afghanistan. We knock the crap out of them, financially and the country they had a haven in. The western world clamped down on them in away that was never seen before. Not that they aren't a threat. It's just they are not what the average brain washed drone like yourself are led to believe they are.
Right.. I guess you won't be too happy to learn that for the most of this conflict I held a security clearance and happen to know otherwise. Sorry to burst your bubble but I think it's pretty hilarious how someone so removed and blinded to what's really happening over there can believe so deeply in pure horse manure.
Only a person like you would think the Iraq war is preventing US terror attacks from happening.
And anyone who has noticed that not only are terrorists continuing to try but they are continuing to fail due to our efforts. ::)
Securing our borders would be a great place to start spending some money instead of pissing into Iraq.
If drilling can truly be done without screwing up the environment, I'm all for it. But i think it's BS propaganda. further more, Inflation si not the reason our gas is higher. Our gas is higher because people like you have been programmed to accept it based on the bull shit reasons they feed you.
Uh huh.. sounds more like you're not aquainted with modern drilling techniques and exactly how much land is needed to tap this resource. Sounds more like the only BS propaganda has come from the Gore Camp and you've eaten every last bite of it.
You really need to stop this.. I'm starting to laugh out loud from your posts!!!
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The free market justifies it.. not the government. Blaming Bush is a prime example of not understanding capitolism and accepting that as long as people will PAY three bucks per gallon then the price will BE three bucks per gallon.
You are another illogical liberal bent on blaming the admin.
It doesn't matter what justifies it, point is it's happening. Is price gouging justified?
Am i blaming the admin here? My point is, before going into Iraq our gas was low, since it's sky rocketed. And i don't buy the BS about demand. I guess you do.
BS.. you gonna tell me AQ isn't trying? Or maybe you still haven't realized how much effort AQ is throwing at our troops in the middle east. If our guard is down the attempts that have been foiled so far would have gotten a lot farther than they did. DIDN'T HAPPEN. And as long as someone a terrorist fears is in the oval office (Bush) our chances of being hit severely (or at all) are greatly diminished. Border security is an issue, I will agree. And Bush, like everyone else so far, hasn't done enough about it. Let's just hope the next conservative in office will be more proactive (and pray no democrat wins the election since everyone knows how much of nothing will become of border security).
Even if you were AQ I think you'd see the poor move in focusing solely on Iraq when the borders of America are practically wide open. but maybe not, becuase you believe with open borders and lax security at airports that they are "still trying"
Sure is.. and my understanding is crystal. Just like the defecit the problem in the education system can be solved without throwing more money at the problem (since I have to say it again). The difference is WHERE the money goes num nuts.. and who it goes to.
More "funds" aren't the problem for enforcing rules, guidelines, and standards.
More "funds" aren't the problem when allowing parents to take more responisibility for thier kids education.
More "funds" have been thrown at the current system than ever before and where are the results, hmm???
I could go on and on.
In some ways i think we are arguing the same point here but differently. I believe we can have a better education system with the money we spend. I believe the basis of a good education starts at home.
However, I don't believe you can have many of the programs i talked about like smaller class rooms without spending extra money. Putting more money in our education (the right way, understand neo-con "THE RIGHT WAY"?) is needed and will make it better.
We already have student loans. Higher education in this country is a business (and believe it or not the left likes it this way considering how much $$$ these schools rake in) and it is not the taxpayers role to fund education for people who should make every attempt to pay for it. And having said that, almost everyone who makes an effort to make the most out of school gets by on student loans can and do pay for it and pay off thier loans after graduating. This is not a society of hand outs.. this is a society of pay your way and pull your weight.
Better roads? Great... Federally funded roads are in excellent condition since you ask. As for the state and local roads it usually depends on the area. I've noticed that the more democratic (and higher taxed) the area the money never seems to make it to the repair crews while in the red states the roads are almost pristine. Riddle me that one Batman?
Not true about loans. Have you sent a child to college yet? I have. The loans exist and help people, but I'm talking about grants and scholorships to real universities. It's not about the tax payers paying for it, it's about going 500 billion in debt for what? For a wasted unneeded, poorly ran war. It's about mortgaging our future. My point is the money could have been better spent.
You can argue it all day, but it wasn't needed to spend, you can argue all day about how our system is fine, but the FACT remains we are falling behind. We are far behind in education, health care for children, and come to the Bay area and tell me about roads. It's BS. Yeah, freeways in OHIO are great, but there isn't the same congestion as LA.
No it doesn't bother me that my enemy, a murderous, torturous, and fanatical machine of human suffering, has died since that is apparently a huge tragedy to you. As for the others it is a sad and unfortunate side effect of the heavy price paid in any conflict.
How is that huge tragedy for me? You are assuming again that i think terrorists murdering bastards should live and be talked too. Your brains washing is showing again. Go back and re-read my statements slowly. Ask someone for help.
I might consider agreeing with this statement if you ever pulled your head out of your ass long enough to see how much AQ is fueling this fire. I also find it interesting that you claim that none of these people are clever enough to infiltrate this country when in this very same post you piss and moan about how easy it is to get into this country. The argument is weak and exposes your hypocrisy.
Well no shit sherlock on the fuel for the fire ::). However, "None of" is not "all of" Re-read it again, simpleton, the opposition in Iraq are not the ones you'd send to our country. They are fodder in Iraq.
Right.. I guess you won't be too happy to learn that for the most of this conflict I held a security clearance and happen to know otherwise. Sorry to burst your bubble but I think it's pretty hilarious how someone so removed and blinded to what's really happening over there can believe so deeply in pure horse manure.
right.......and what is otherwise ::)?
And anyone who has noticed that not only are terrorists continuing to try but they are continuing to fail due to our efforts. Roll Eyes
We are also doing a great job of defending Alien attacks. ::)
We are doing a great job defending it from something that isn't happening. Because if it was happening it would be as easy as a walk in the park for them.
Uh huh.. sounds more like you're not aquainted with modern drilling techniques and exactly how much land is needed to tap this resource. Sounds more like the only BS propaganda has come from the Gore Camp and you've eaten every last bite of it.
You really need to stop this.. I'm starting to laugh out loud from your posts!!!
Anytime you'd like to show me would be fine. Or are you just going to pass it off as Gore BS?
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It doesn't matter what justifies it, point is it's happening. Is price gouging justified?
Am i blaming the admin here? My point is, before going into Iraq our gas was low, since it's sky rocketed. And i don't buy the BS about demand. I guess you do.
BS about demand?? Jeezus... do you know anything about free market?!?!
Even if you were AQ I think you'd see the poor move in focusing solely on Iraq when the borders of America are practically wide open. but maybe not, becuase you believe with open borders and lax security at airports that they are "still trying"
Uh no.. they are obviously still trying but they are not stupid like you imagine. They realize like anyone familiar with the middle east that they HAVE to fight to keep us destabilized there. It's a bigger priority to them to destroy whatever security we have in that region since it denies them a safe haven in which to operate. C'mon buddy, this is simple stuff.
In some ways i think we are arguing the same point here but differently. I believe we can have a better education system with the money we spend. I believe the basis of a good education starts at home.
Okay, agree.
However, I don't believe you can have many of the programs i talked about like smaller class rooms without spending extra money. Putting more money in our education (the right way, understand neo-con "THE RIGHT WAY"?) is needed and will make it better.
Nope, the point is that we've already gone down that road and as we upped the funding without doing much else the benefit of money became negligable.. and while your at it what makes you think I am a neo-con vs. a regular conservative?
Not true about loans. Have you sent a child to college yet? I have. The loans exist and help people, but I'm talking about grants and scholorships to real universities. It's not about the tax payers paying for it, it's about going 500 billion in debt for what? For a wasted unneeded, poorly ran war. It's about mortgaging our future. My point is the money could have been better spent.
I am currently in college and while my GI Bill pays for me, I know many who are on student loans. Thier only difficulties have come from their own irrisponsibility and squandering. I can say each of them was given the opportunity and had the potential. A higher education is no where out of reach.
As for your original point that the money isn't worth what we're doing with it I'm curious how much was spent on the first gulf war, and now 500 billion on this one. If we don't win this and finish the job (like we should've the first time) then how much $$$ will it take when we have to go there AGAIN to fix/defend another problem getting worse?
You can argue it all day, but it wasn't needed to spend, you can argue all day about how our system is fine, but the FACT remains we are falling behind. We are far behind in education, health care for children, and come to the Bay area and tell me about roads. It's BS. Yeah, freeways in OHIO are great, but there isn't the same congestion as LA.
I've spent quite a lot of time in Southern California (San Diego, Oceanside, LA, El Cajon, etc.) as well as Sacto and I can agree. But maybe you need to be taking a closer look at your state and the people that have been deciding what to do with your STATE taxes for the last 15 years.
How is that huge tragedy for me? You are assuming again that i think terrorists murdering bastards should live and be talked too. Your brains washing is showing again. Go back and re-read my statements slowly. Ask someone for help.
I did.. and I even asked for help from my truck driving, beer drinking, sister-screwing friends. ;D
You made the statement as if we shouldn't be thanking Bush for annihalating these ass holes.
Well no shit sherlock on the fuel for the fire ::). However, "None of" is not "all of" Re-read it again, simpleton, the opposition in Iraq are not the ones you'd send to our country. They are fodder in Iraq.
See my earlier statement. It's all about priorities and even despite our security issues here the reason we haven't been attacked is our aggressive persuit of terrorism and destroying them during the planning stages of thier attacks.
right.......and what is otherwise ::)?
Obvously if I could tell you I wouldn't be arguing all this other stuff right now since what I have to say would probably leave the less informed, such as yourself, speechless and without a leg to stand on. I'm sure you would tell me that you don't believe everything you hear on the news, right? Well now is one of those times.
Regardless, your arguments really doesn't hold much water even without it.
We are also doing a great job of defending Alien attacks. ::)
We are doing a great job defending it from something that isn't happening. Because if it was happening it would be as easy as a walk in the park for them.
Aliens haven't attacked us before (let alone continuing to try on a daily basis) smart guy.. ::)
It's not so easy when you have an aggressive defense plan even with huge gaps in border security. Why do you think radical islamics hate Bush so much and will do anything to keep another like him out of office? They fear him and would love a democrat to take over.
Anytime you'd like to show me would be fine. Or are you just going to pass it off as Gore BS?
http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-drilling.htm
http://www.anwr.org/
http://www.american.edu/ted/alaska.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40670-2005Mar16.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,323513,00.html
http://www.ecoworld.com/home/articles2.cfm?tid=360
Some to start with.. I've seen so much on this subject over the last few years but I don't have hours to find everything.
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Uh no.. they are obviously still trying but they are not stupid like you imagine. They realize like anyone familiar with the middle east that they HAVE to fight to keep us destabilized there. It's a bigger priority to them to destroy whatever security we have in that region since it denies them a safe haven in which to operate. C'mon buddy, this is simple stuff.
Brix,
I don't imagine AQ to be stupid. What i'm telling you is, not everyone of the recruits/soldiers is cut out for infiltrating the USA and commiting an attack on US soil.
Of course they have to fight us there, but not only there. There resources are not limited to only fighting there and much of the violence aimed at US soldiers is not AQ, but clan-ish insurgents workign to whatever end, likely funded by Iran who stands to gain much for our failure in Iraq. Iraq is not a safe haven for them unless we leave now.
They can also fight us in the USA. But they cannot, not becuase we are in Iraq. But becuase they either no longer have the capability becuase of what happened after 9/11 (Afghanistan, other governments cracking down on them etc...) or our intelligence and special ops have done such a job on them they have lost much of their capability. Think about it. What would happen if another BIG attack happened here in the USA? It would cause much trouble for our government, our way of life and our country. Yet the borders and the airports are easy targets and we have not seen an attack. Why? becuase of the reasons i listed.
Nope, the point is that we've already gone down that road and as we upped the funding without doing much else the benefit of money became negligable.. and while your at it what makes you think I am a neo-con vs. a regular conservative?
Not until this post am i seeing you as more of a regular conservative. Your knee jerk assumptions about me liberal and other posts of your in the past led me to believe otherwise, especially your support for BUSH and this war in Iraq.
I am currently in college and while my GI Bill pays for me, I know many who are on student loans. Thier only difficulties have come from their own irrisponsibility and squandering. I can say each of them was given the opportunity and had the potential. A higher education is no where out of reach.
As for your original point that the money isn't worth what we're doing with it I'm curious how much was spent on the first gulf war, and now 500 billion on this one. If we don't win this and finish the job (like we should've the first time) then how much $$$ will it take when we have to go there AGAIN to fix/defend another problem getting worse?
I think there are many things we don;t spend money on that can change our education system for the better and will keep us competitive in the future. I believe in lean spending not wasteful. I think Iraq was wasteful and poorly planned. Now that we are there, i see we can't really leave anytime soon. I think we should have never gone in there int he first place. Saddam was willing to do what we are not willing to do now just to keep his power. Those infighting religious nuts will persecute and kill regardless of who's in charge now. Saddam had them all under control. Yes, in the end, if it actually ever comes, it may have been a good move. but at what cost? The first gulf war, which i was for, acomplished many things and if i remember right, we got money from other countries. We are taking this one all the way.
I've spent quite a lot of time in Southern California (San Diego, Oceanside, LA, El Cajon, etc.) as well as Sacto and I can agree. But maybe you need to be taking a closer look at your state and the people that have been deciding what to do with your STATE taxes for the last 15 years.
No argument there. But doesn't change the my original assertion: 500 billion would change this country over night, it would allow real border securty, health care for every child, better education, congestion problems, research funding etc... And yes, ONLY if it was spent properly.
I did.. and I even asked for help from my truck driving, beer drinking, sister-screwing friends. Grin
You made the statement as if we shouldn't be thanking Bush for annihalating these ass holes.
did i ever bring up their sisters? ;D I was really talking about first cousins. ;D
I applaud Bush for Afghanistan. i applaud him for standing for what he believes. I don't applaud him for his decision to invade Iraq. I think it was a mistake and wasn't worth the cost or the death of our soldiers and other iraqi innocent victims. I hope you see that now. Because of all things, Geez, to think i support not killing the bastards responsible.....i'm just not one to dismiss senseless death as a part of war so easily.
Aliens haven't attacked us before (let alone continuing to try on a daily basis) smart guy.. Roll Eyes
It's not so easy when you have an aggressive defense plan even with huge gaps in border security. Why do you think radical islamics hate Bush so much and will do anything to keep another like him out of office? They fear him and would love a democrat to take over.
Things have change too much becuase of 9/11. You should know enough that foreign policy in this regard will stay the course no matter who's office. 9/11 hurt our economy bad. The rich, the companies, etc... who support presidents do not want attacks on American soil. It's bad for business. It won't matter who's office come 2009. Thing will pretty much stay the same. If it actually makes sense to pull out of Iraq partially, the President, Repub or Dem, will do it.
Obvously if I could tell you I wouldn't be arguing all this other stuff right now since what I have to say would probably leave the less informed, such as yourself, speechless and without a leg to stand on. I'm sure you would tell me that you don't believe everything you hear on the news, right? Well now is one of those times.
Regardless, your arguments really doesn't hold much water even without it.
So are you saying things are really bad in Afghanistan right now? What are you saying exactly? I do know that in 90% of the country i wouldn't walk around with an American flag draped over my shoulders.
BTW
Thanks for the links.
I'll check them out soon.
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Brix,
I don't imagine AQ to be stupid. What i'm telling you is, not everyone of the recruits/soldiers is cut out for infiltrating the USA and commiting an attack on US soil.
Of course they have to fight us there, but not only there. There resources are not limited to only fighting there and much of the violence aimed at US soldiers is not AQ, but clan-ish insurgents workign to whatever end, likely funded by Iran who stands to gain much for our failure in Iraq. Iraq is not a safe haven for them unless we leave now.
They can also fight us in the USA. But they cannot, not becuase we are in Iraq. But becuase they either no longer have the capability becuase of what happened after 9/11 (Afghanistan, other governments cracking down on them etc...) or our intelligence and special ops have done such a job on them they have lost much of their capability. Think about it. What would happen if another BIG attack happened here in the USA? It would cause much trouble for our government, our way of life and our country. Yet the borders and the airports are easy targets and we have not seen an attack. Why? becuase of the reasons i listed.
Leaving now would be a disaster. Everyone knows that and I think that's pretty clear. And this time I am GLAD that we're actually following through and finishing the job.
I think the impact we're having in Iraq is having a lot more benefits outside of that country than most realize. The difference it is making and is going to make in that part of the world is phenomenal to say the least, especially when dealing with Iran. There's SO much people don't know and will not know for many years and based upon what I have seen I think everything happening now including that which is a direct result of Bush's actions and ideas, the best of which has been his choice of military leadership in theatre. Americans simply don't understand how much is classified and will remain so. That fact makes it so hard to convince people when the WHOLE story isn't made public.
Not until this post am i seeing you as more of a regular conservative. Your knee jerk assumptions about me liberal and other posts of your in the past led me to believe otherwise, especially your support for BUSH and this war in Iraq.
They're not knee jerk as many of the points you argued and even the way you've worded your responses puts you decidedly left. People forget that the core of the conservative party aren't fans of McCain, Bi-Partisanism, and have continued to support Bush, the war, and all of the recent military action the world over. It's easy to forget that when all you see in the media is the core conservative movement being marginalized over and over.
I think there are many things we don;t spend money on that can change our education system for the better and will keep us competitive in the future. I believe in lean spending not wasteful. I think Iraq was wasteful and poorly planned. Now that we are there, i see we can't really leave anytime soon. I think we should have never gone in there int he first place. Saddam was willing to do what we are not willing to do now just to keep his power. Those infighting religious nuts will persecute and kill regardless of who's in charge now. Saddam had them all under control. Yes, in the end, if it actually ever comes, it may have been a good move. but at what cost? The first gulf war, which i was for, accomplished many things and if i remember right, we got money from other countries. We are taking this one all the way.
I will agree on one subject.. vouchers. Private schools are the way to go and when the current educational system fails no matter how much $$$ is in it parents deserve the choice and should be supported. That is one instance I do support more tax dollars being used for since the tax dollars flushed down the toilet in the public system were a rip off and provided no return for the tax payers.
No argument there. But doesn't change the my original assertion: 500 billion would change this country over night, it would allow real border security, health care for every child, better education, congestion problems, research funding etc... And yes, ONLY if it was spent properly.
You have a great point but the reason I disagree is that many of us think the 500 billion spent now, (much like the $$$ that should have been spent to destroy Saddam in '91) saves us from spending 1 trillion, 10 trillion or more later fighting a bigger Saddam, more terrorism, an Iranian power house, and any major instability in that region.
did i ever bring up their sisters? ;D I was really talking about first cousins. ;D
I applaud Bush for Afghanistan. i applaud him for standing for what he believes. I don't applaud him for his decision to invade Iraq. I think it was a mistake and wasn't worth the cost or the death of our soldiers and other Iraqi innocent victims. I hope you see that now. Because of all things, Geez, to think i support not killing the bastards responsible.....i'm just not one to dismiss senseless death as a part of war so easily.
Hey marrying your first cousin is legal here in MD, and it's not even the deep south!!! Too bad my first cousin is a toddler :'( ;D
And the death of murderous, savage people who are hell bent on our destruction and worse is necessary and has unfortunate consequences. You have to accept it but no one has to like it. Doing what's needed doesn't mean blaming leadership when those consequences are a historical fact and inevitability.
Things have change too much becuase of 9/11. You should know enough that foreign policy in this regard will stay the course no matter who's office. 9/11 hurt our economy bad. The rich, the companies, etc... who support presidents do not want attacks on American soil. It's bad for business. It won't matter who's office come 2009. Thing will pretty much stay the same. If it actually makes sense to pull out of Iraq partially, the President, Repub or Dem, will do it.
Not even close. Any democrat running for president right now is a perfect example since they are almost completely poll driven. They will say whatever people want to hear to get into office and then do as they wish. The American public is misled, misinformed, and a great deal of people lack basic understanding and comprehension to begin with (thanks public schools). Some of the gov't is at fault but I think a very slanted media and very powerfull few on the left have done so much damage to this country. Now we're faced with citizens who greatly oppose a war 3/4ths of them don't even understand.
Even certain people in the GOP fit in that mindset (McCain, RP, and possibly Huck). None of those three candidates are anywhere near the core conservative base (although I do like RP on a great deal of issues). Whomever takes office I just hope and pray they do the right thing and finish the job this time. Otherwise we look forward to doing again later with more $$$, more lives, more at stake.. I don't want my kids cleaning up our mistakes.
So are you saying things are really bad in Afghanistan right now? What are you saying exactly? I do know that in 90% of the country i wouldn't walk around with an American flag draped over my shoulders.
BTW
Thanks for the links.
I'll check them out soon.
So bad even we will not only have to maintain more of a presence than previously expected but might have to surge there as well. The USA isn't really popular over there no matter who is president but the AQ, and other terrorist orgs have made it clear that another Bush is bad for their business.
Welcome.