Author Topic: Do you believe in Jesus?  (Read 55521 times)

IrishMuscle84

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #75 on: October 24, 2011, 07:26:58 AM »
Religion was created by men to control the weak and give others a better feeling about death.
Jesus is about as real as the Easter bunny, Santa Claus, tooth fairy or boogie men.

If people want to believe in Jesus or whatever, that's fine, but don't try to preach that shit to me because i don't want to hear it.

There were many historians around during the time Jesus was claimed to be in existence and not a single one of them ever documented anything about him.  It wasn't until many years later that man created Jesus and the whole calender argument is stupid as fuck.  The bible was put together from a bunch of wild "tall tales" to give people in power control over the masses.

Do some real research on the matter and then tell me he's real.

Now i do believe there is something bigger than me, but whether it's God or some alien transmitting mind control methods to us via Sevestase is up in the air.  It seems to me that there must be something better than us out there but it may not be of this world or even of this dimension.  There could be Gods all around us for all we know, but the fact remains that there is zero proof of any of this and people use faith to guide them.  

Do as you wish with your life, but don't force me or my children to believe in any of this nonsense.  More people have been killed in the name of God than any other being and there are over 20,000 different Gods on this planet. oh brother


8)
Death= FEAR.......of the UNKNOWN.

Dr Dutch

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #76 on: October 24, 2011, 07:45:20 AM »
.

leadhead

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2011, 09:15:42 AM »
Yes I do and i am a Southern Baptist Christian. Btw it took me many years of internally debating whether or not I believed in God and Jesus until tradegy struck and I was devestated, God helped me through it when I had no one else to turn to. Like most of you all, I felt like I created my own destiny and controlled my life w/o needing help from anyone. if any of you want a testimony of faith or to talk about Chrisitianity just pm me.

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #78 on: October 24, 2011, 09:30:05 AM »
Yes I do and i am a Southern Baptist Christian. Btw it took me many years of internally debating whether or not I believed in God and Jesus until tradegy struck and I was devestated, God helped me through it when I had no one else to turn to. Like most of you all, I felt like I created my own destiny and controlled my life w/o needing help from anyone. if any of you want a testimony of faith or to talk about Chrisitianity just pm me.

pm me your exact location

Fortress

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #79 on: October 24, 2011, 12:28:36 PM »
Absolutely not.

Was raised a Roman Catholic, but once I matured and gained education/intelligence, I began to understand the huge horseshit that is religion and belief in "gods".

Jesus, if he did exist (which I don't believe), was a normal guy who, as do many preachers today, spouted this and that and had fools fooled. Not difficult to do two thousand years ago when jackasses STILL believe utter nonsense.

Religion is a manmade construct that keeps folks in line and makes a relative few a LOT of money.

And why do people continue to believe the universe had to "start"? Perhaps there was no start. Just like there is a belief among some scientists that there is no end. Humans have too small brains to conceive that something might not have had a beginning. It just always was.

I do believe in electricity and matter. And limitless time.

This Jesus fiasco is mebarrassing. If he did exist, I would have gladly smashed another nail into his tiny tit body.

And while I am at it, fuck that Mohammed cockweasal, too. And all the others.

Time to wake, people.   

Dr Dutch

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #80 on: October 24, 2011, 12:32:27 PM »
Jesus, if he did exist (which I don't believe), was a normal guy who, as do many preachers today, spouted this and that and had fools fooled.

I think he may have been some rebel leader, like Osama, driving the Romans crazy. But there seem to be no historic Roman domuments about Jesus, so the best bet is that he never existed...

tu_holmes

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #81 on: October 24, 2011, 12:39:38 PM »
I think he may have been some rebel leader, like Osama, driving the Romans crazy. But there seem to be no historic Roman domuments about Jesus, so the best bet is that he never existed...

Around getbig the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Although I agree with you.

Parker

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #82 on: October 24, 2011, 12:54:22 PM »
Quick , Somebody call National Geographic! The great minds of Getbig have concluded that Jesus never existed!

While I do believe that Catholicism way back in the beginning was developed to consolidate power and the concept of Hell was develop to scare people into following, and the decision to omit certain books like The Book of Enoch, which talked of various dimensions and karmatic endings,
there has yet been no proof that he NEVER existed.

breakmore

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #83 on: October 24, 2011, 12:57:28 PM »

Fortress

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #84 on: October 24, 2011, 12:59:13 PM »

lovemonkey

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #85 on: October 24, 2011, 01:27:45 PM »
from incomplete data

tu_holmes

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #86 on: October 24, 2011, 02:07:24 PM »
Quick , Somebody call National Geographic! The great minds of Getbig have concluded that Jesus never existed!

While I do believe that Catholicism way back in the beginning was developed to consolidate power and the concept of Hell was develop to scare people into following, and the decision to omit certain books like The Book of Enoch, which talked of various dimensions and karmatic endings,
there has yet been no proof that he NEVER existed.

All proof that he did shows up over 30 years after his death supposedly. How is that proof of existence in the first place?

breakmore

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #87 on: October 24, 2011, 02:13:43 PM »




Parker

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #88 on: October 24, 2011, 02:19:46 PM »
All proof that he did shows up over 30 years after his death supposedly. How is that proof of existence in the first place?
They had to get the story right?
I believe there was a Nat Geo vid on the whole "manger" thing...
I have to find it.
It's kinda like saying that John Henry never existed...when there is no real concrete proof of his birth, and the story of his "race" apparently did happen.

tu_holmes

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #89 on: October 24, 2011, 02:22:40 PM »
They had to get the story right?
I believe there was a Nat Geo vid on the whole "manger" thing...
I have to find it.
It's kinda like saying that John Henry never existed...when there is no real concrete proof of his birth, and the story of his "race" apparently did happen.

Did it happen? It's a folk story... Like Paul Bunyan and has big ass ox.

Do you believe that Paul Bunyan lived?

Parker

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #90 on: October 24, 2011, 02:41:14 PM »
Did it happen? It's a folk story... Like Paul Bunyan and has big ass ox.

Do you believe that Paul Bunyan lived?
Who knows?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_(folklore)

and that's a big ass BLUE ox...

Like many myths and legends, they have a element of fact and are sometimes based on events or actual people, like Atlantis. It's gets so hard to seperate fact from fiction because the truth gets so muddied up. Like Shawn Ray allowing his mother to go to jail over drugs, or him with Sasha Ogata, when it was Abbas Khatami (sp) that was in a LT relationship with Sasha. Or SR Ratting to the DEA, or Flex's calf implants (started again by SR).

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #91 on: October 24, 2011, 02:49:15 PM »

tu_holmes

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #92 on: October 24, 2011, 02:53:43 PM »
Who knows?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_(folklore)

and that's a big ass BLUE ox...

Like many myths and legends, they have a element of fact and are sometimes based on events or actual people, like Atlantis. It's gets so hard to seperate fact from fiction because the truth gets so muddied up. Like Shawn Ray allowing his mother to go to jail over drugs, or him with Sasha Ogata, when it was Abbas Khatami (sp) that was in a LT relationship with Sasha. Or SR Ratting to the DEA, or Flex's calf implants (started again by SR).

Therein is my point about Jesus... Jesus has a lot of similarities to the Egyptian God Horus... So again... where is the actual truth.

Too much unknown to call any of it "fact".

paradoxno1

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #93 on: October 24, 2011, 02:56:37 PM »
I love Jesus.
He's born, I get presents. He dies, I get chocolate.

Nails

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #94 on: October 24, 2011, 02:57:31 PM »



Parker

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #95 on: October 24, 2011, 03:02:03 PM »
Therein is my point about Jesus... Jesus has a lot of similarities to the Egyptian God Horus... So again... where is the actual truth.

Too much unknown to call any of it "fact".
Exactly, and Ra=Zeus=God
and the disciples=Angels=minor gods

The Devil=Bacchus=The Green Man

many things being copied, reformatted, etc...
There is even some credibility that Hercules was based on a soldier, and of course let's not forget King Arthur.

affeman

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #96 on: October 24, 2011, 03:03:06 PM »

OTHstrong

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #97 on: October 24, 2011, 03:10:04 PM »
To conclude or even think for a second a man named Jesus did not exist historically is uttor non-sense



Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."




Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian (117-138 AD):

"Because the Jews of Rome caused continous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, [Claudius] expelled them from the city."

"After the great fire at Rome [during Nero's reign] ... Punishments were also inflicted on the Christians, a sect professing a new and mischievous religious belief."




Flavius Josephus (37-97 AD), court historian for Emperor Vespasian:

"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." (Arabic translation)




Julius Africanus, writing around 221 AD, found a reference in the writings of Thallus, who wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean around 52 AD, which dealt with the darkness that covered the land during Jesus's crucifixion:

"Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun--unreasonably, as it seems to me." [A solar eclipse could not take place during a full moon, as was the case during Passover season.]




Pliny the Younger, Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor around 112 AD:

"[The Christians] were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food--but food of an ordinary and innocent kind." Pliny added that Christianity attracted persons of all societal ranks, all ages, both sexes, and from both the city and the country. Late in his letter to Emperor Trajan, Pliny refers to the teachings of Jesus and his followers as excessive and contagious superstition.




Emperor Trajan, in reply to Pliny:

"The method you have pursued, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those denounced to you as Christians is extremely proper. It is not possible to lay down any general rule which can be applied as the fixed standard in all cases of this nature. No search should be made for these people; when they are denounced and found guilty they must be punished; with the restriction, however, that when the party denies himself to be a Christian, and shall give proof that he is not (that is, by adoring our gods) he shall be pardoned on the ground of repentance, even though he may have formerly incurred suspicion. Informations without the accuser's name subscribed must not be admitted in evidence against anyone, as it is introducing a very dangerous precedent, and by no means agreeable to the spirit of the age."




Emporer Hadrian (117-138 AD), in a letter to Minucius Fundanus, the Asian proconsul:

"I do not wish, therefore, that the matter should be passed by without examination, so that these men may neither be harassed, nor opportunity of malicious proceedings be offered to informers. If, therefore, the provincials can clearly evince their charges against the Christians, so as to answer before the tribunal, let them pursue this course only, but not by mere petitions, and mere outcries against the Christians. For it is far more proper, if anyone would bring an accusation, that you should examine it." Hadrian further explained that if Christians were found guilty they should be judged "according to the heinousness of the crime." If the accusers were only slandering the believers, then those who inaccurately made the charges were to be punished.




The Jewish Talmud, compiled between 70 and 200 AD:

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."

[Another early reference in the Talmud speaks of five of Jesus's disciples and recounts their standing before judges who make individual decisions about each one, deciding that they should be executed. However, no actual deaths are recorded.]




Lucian, a second century Greek satirist:

"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. ... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property." Lucian also reported that the Christians had "sacred writings" which were frequently read. When something affected them, "they spare no trouble, no expense."




Mara Bar-Serapion, of Syria, writing between 70 and 200 AD from prison to motivate his son to emulate wise teachers of the past:

"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burying Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given."





GNOSTICS SOURCES



The Gospel of Truth, probably by Valentius, around 135-160 AD:

"For when they had seen him and had heard him, he granted them to taste him and to smell him and to touch the beloved Son. When he had appeared instructing them about the Father. ... For he came by means of fleshly appearance." Other passages affirm that the Son of God came in the flesh and "the Word came into the midst. ... it became a body."

"Jesus, was patient in accepting sufferings. . . since he knows that his death is life for many. . . . he was nailed to a tree; he published the edict of the Father on the cross. ... He draws himself down to death through life. ... eternal clothes him. Having stripped himself of the perishable rags, he put on imperishability, which no one can possibly take away from him."




The Aprocryphon of John, probably by Saturninus, around 120-130 AD:

"It happened one day when John, the brother of James,--who are the sons of Zebedee--went up and came to the temple, that a Pharisee named Arimanius approached him and said to him, `Where is your master whom you followed?' And he said to him, 'He has gone to the place from which he came.' The Pharisee said to him, 'This Nazarene deceived you with deception and filled your ears with lies and closed your hearts and turned you from the traditions of your fathers.'"




The Gospel of Thomas, probably from 140-200 AD:

Contain many references to and alleged quotations of Jesus.




The Treatise On Resurrection, by uncertain author of the late second century, to Rheginos:

"The Lord ... existed in flesh and ... revealed himself as Son of God ... Now the Son of God, Rheginos, was Son of Man. He embraced them both, possessing the humanity and the divinity, so that on the one hand he might vanquish death through his being Son of God, and that on the other through the Son of Man the restoration to the Pleroma might occur; because he was originally from above, a seed of the Truth, before this structure of the cosmos had come into being."

"For we have known the Son of Man, and we have believed that he rose from among the dead. This is he of whom we say, 'He became the destruction of death, as he is a great one in whom they believe.' Great are those who believe."

"The Savior swallowed up death. ... He transformed himself into an imperishable Aeon and raised himself up, having swallowed the visible by the invisible, and he gave us the way of our immortality."

"Do not think the resurrection is an illusion. It is no illusion, but it is truth. Indeed, it is more fitting to say that the world is an illusion, rather than the resurrection which has come into being through our Lord the Savior, Jesus Christ."

". . . already you have the resurrection ... why not consider yourself as risen and already brought to this?" Rheginos was thus encouraged not to "continue as if you are to die."





LOST WORKS QUOTED IN OTHER SOURCES



Acts of Pontius Pilate, reports sent from Pilate to Tiberius, referred to by Justin Martyr (150 AD):

"And the expression, 'They pierced my hands and my feet,' was used in reference to the nails of the cross which were fixed in His hands and feet. And after he was crucified, they cast lots upon His vesture, and they that crucified Him parted it among them. And that these things did happen you can ascertain the 'Acts' of Pontius Pilate." Later Justin lists several healing miracles and asserts, "And that He did those things, you can learn from the Acts of Pontius Pilate."




Phlegon, born about 80 AD, as reported by Origen (185-254 AD), mentioned that Jesus made certain predictions which had been fulfilled.






ANCIENT CHRISTIAN SOURCES
(extra-biblical)



Clement, elder of Rome, letter to the Corinthian church (95 AD):

"The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ was sent forth from God. So then Christ is from God, and the Apostles are from Christ. Both therefore came of the will of God in the appointed order. Having therefore received a charge, and having been fully assured through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and confirmed in the word of God with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth with the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come. So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed their firstfruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto them that should believe."




Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, letter to the Trallians (110-115 AD):

"Jesus Christ who was of the race of David, who was the Son of Mary, who was truly born and ate and drank, was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate, was truly crucified and died in the sight of those in heaven and on earth and those under the earth; who moreover was truly raised from the dead, His Father having raised Him, who in the like fashion will so raise us also who believe on Him."




Ignatius, letter to the Smyrneans (110-115 AD):

"He is truly of the race of David according to the flesh, but Son of God by the Divine will and power, truly born of a virgin and baptised by John that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed up in the flesh for our sakes under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch (of which fruit are we--that is, of his most blessed passion); that He might set up an ensign unto all ages through His resurrection."

"For I know and believe that He was in the flesh even after the resurrection; and when He came to Peter and his company, He said to them, 'Lay hold and handle me, and see that I am not a demon without body.' And straightway they touched him, and they believed, being joined unto His flesh and His blood. Wherefore also they despised death, nay they were found superior to death. And after His resurrection He ate with them and drank with them."




Ignatius, letter to the Magnesians (110-115 AD):

"Be ye fully persuaded concerning the birth and the passion and the resurrection, which took place in the time of the governorship of Pontius Pilate; for these things were truly and certainly done by Jesus Christ our hope."




Quadratus, to Emperor Hadrian about 125 AD:

"The deeds of our Saviour were always before you, for they were true miracles; those that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when He had left the earth. So that some of them have also lived to our own times."




(Pseudo-)Barnabas, written 130-138 AD:

"He must needs be manifested in the flesh. ... He preached teaching Israel and performing so many wonders and miracles, and He loved them exceedingly. ... He chose His own apostles who were to proclaim His Gospel. ... But He Himself desired so to suffer; for it was necessary for Him to suffer on a tree."




Justin Martyr, to Emperor Antoninus Pius about 150 AD:

After referring to Jesus's birth of a virgin in the town of Bethlehem, and that His physical line of descent came through the tribe of Judah and the family of Jesse, Justin wrote, "Now there is a village in the land of the Jews, thirty-five stadia from Jerusalem, in which Jesus Christ was born, as you can ascertain also from the registers of the taxing made under Cyrenius, your first procurator in Judea."

"Accordingly, after He was crucified, even all His acquaintances forsook Him, having denied Him; and afterwards, when He had risen from the dead and appeared to them, and had taught them to read the prophecies in which all these things were foretold as coming to pass, and when they had seen Him ascending into heaven, and had believed, and had received power sent thence by Him upon them, and went to every race of men, they taught these things, and were called apostles."




Justin Martyr, in Dialogue with Trypho, around 150 AD:

"For at the time of His birth, Magi who came from Arabia worshipped Him, coming first to Herod, who then was sovereign in your land."

"For when they crucified Him, driving in the nails, they pierced His hands and feet; and those who crucified Him parted His garments among themselves, each casting lots for what he chose to have, and receiving according to the decision of the lot."

"Christ said amongst you that He would give the sign of Jonah, exhorting you to repent of your wicked deeds at least after He rose again from the dead ... yet you not only have not repented, after you learned that He rose from the dead, but, as I said before, you have sent chosen and ordained men throughout all the world to proclaim that 'a godless and lawless heresy had sprung from one Jesus, a Galilean deceiver, whom we crucified, but His disciples stole Him by night from the tomb, where He was laid when unfastened from the cross, and now deceive men by asserting that He has risen from the dead and ascended to heaven.'"

"For indeed the Lord remained upon the tree almost until evening, and they buried Him at eventide; then on the third day He rose again."


tu_holmes

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #98 on: October 24, 2011, 03:11:11 PM »

tu_holmes

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Re: Do you believe in Jesus?
« Reply #99 on: October 24, 2011, 03:12:37 PM »
To conclude or even think for a second a man named Jesus did not exist historically is uttor non-sense



Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome:

Especially when the closest writing to Jesus' actual life was 25 years after his death... Yes, it's "non-sense".

::)