squat form

[JPM]

I wasn't going to comment (do I hear cheer's?) but have been inspired by the excellent information supplied by the aways lovely and alluring Princess L.

The toe/knee in-line thing can fall into the disinformation folder for the majority of trainee's. The in-line center of gravity and the fact that everyone is not structured the same way, gives cause for the creditably of this idea. I don't think that anyone would, in the real training world, want to limit the flexability of the knee/thigh this way, with regards to the muscle/joint action. Too much unneeded stress produced. If the step-up is applied (alternate legs), rather than regular BB squating, than that toe/knee position can be preformed without undo stress, as with lunges. Bulgarian squats fall into this class. Any of the above are very good ham builders also.

This is not to say that most people should not do the toe/knee style, a few can without undo troubles. That is their leverage/insert/joint placements disposition. Any and all exercises should be given a fair try at least for a short period, to test the muscle/joint responces. Bad or good will depend on the individual and their responces.

Some coaches, in the past, have used a piece of plywood (3X3 or whatever suits the purpose)  and have the trainee place his toes against the bottom, with the knee's brushing that board to learn the toe/knee style. Some have used a rope or board. The stance is usually wider than normal. Not that it would matter much, but I would not suggest anyone of those methods. As mentioned, the box squat is a prime way of learning to not only use the thighs but the hips, butt & hams. You are sitting back with the back and head straight (like they taught us in missionary school). You lead with the hips/butt, with strong influence from the hams, rather than only the legs themselves. It's somewhat like shifting gears in a car, different muscle phases all the way to the top position. Flexability is quite important with this style of box squating. Just about everyone will be too stiff, with limited range, at first. It doesn't have to be a box it's self. Guy's use benches, etc. A couple of PL'ing bud's of mine use two turned over buckets. Two buckets for their rather large 300lb arse's.

Putting the heels on a 2" block (or whatever) would be counter productive and certainly proned to injury if one is serious about actually doing toe/knee line squats.  Just follow the track of the knee, with regard to the body, to understand this. And as Princess L stated in her impelling insights, the Smith machine would be the last peice of equipment that anyone would want to use when attempting to do toe/knee inline squating. Good Luck.

[Princess L]

I wasn't going to comment (do I hear cheer's?) but have been inspired by the excellent information supplied by the aways lovely and alluring Princess L.

And as Princess L stated in her impelling insights, the Smith machine would be the last peice of equipment that anyone would want to use when attempting to do toe/knee inline squating. Good Luck.

I spent a long time using the smith, afraid of the rack.  After A LOT of time and with the help of several professionals, I finally "got it".  It's an exercise I'm quite passionate about. 

[JPM]

Princess L.....The Lovely One:

 That's the reason I would not suggest the Smith machine to the average trainee. Too much time involved to learn proper style and a lot of people are just not suited for the appointed and different stress levels (muscle/strength curves) offered.  Any movement that would require the toe/knee, let alone learning the proper squating form, position may be quite a challenge for most (Over the years I've noticed that a lot of BB'ers are not the most coordinated or athletic of persons). I think the Smith machine get's a bad rep, it can be a rewarding piece of equipment, but it can demand a learning phase that a lot of people don't care to invest in. Also they try to rush the weight on the bar before really achieving proper style/form. I find that even experience BB'ers will need the help of a spotter from time to time on that equipment. It's not always a solo exercise by all means. Good Luck and share the passion.

 

[pumpster]

I wasn't going to comment (do I hear cheer's?) but have been inspired by the excellent information supplied by the aways lovely and alluring Princess L.

Princess L.....The Lovely One:

Man does this guy need to get laid?  That explains the wild mood swings and hostility.

[pumpster]

Just a couple of things I generally disagree with.  (WADR)  generally speaking, heel plates might make this person’s situation worse.  We don’t know if he has long femurs, tight calves, tight hammies, poor ankle flexion, hip imbalances, etc. or just lack of experience.  I’m not against heel plates, but only for the right reasons.  Secondly, the Smith IMO does not help to teach a proper squat.  In fact it can teach poor habits.

Very questionable-best that each individual tries for himself, rather than advising one way or the other-heel plates are excellent for the majority, thus it's quite unwise to generalize to the contrary out of hand; I used them for years of heavy squatting and wouldn't think of doing without them-both because balance is much easier and because there is less stress on the knees, IMO. Try all possibilities and resist and suggestions that tell you to stick to one approach; later you can make your own judgements. That includes the use of a 1-2" block.

Putting the heels on a 2" block (or whatever) would be counter productive and certainly proned to injury if one is serious about actually doing toe/knee line squats.  Just follow the track of the knee, with regard to the body, to understand this. And as Princess L stated in her impelling insights, the Smith machine would be the last peice of equipment that anyone would want to use when attempting to do toe/knee inline squating. Good Luck.

More long-winded and poor, one-dimensional advice. The smart thing to do is try everything yourself, and decide. Heel blocks rule, and should be tried rather than following foolish advice like this in which someone else presumes to know better.

Smith machine-same thing. Rather than follow some lame generalization from someone here, try for yourself and decide. Some guys including Yates find the Smith squat far better than regular squats, some think the opposite-you try, you decide. Simple. Does not matter beginner or experienced; in fact machines often offer advantages to beginner who then don't have to worry about balance issues.

[Always Sore]

Very questionable-best that each individual tries for himself, rather than advising one way or the other-heel plates are excellent for the majority, thus it's quite unwise to generalize to the contrary out of hand; I used them for years of heavy squatting and wouldn't think of doing without them-both because balance is much easier and because there is less stress on the knees, IMO. Try all possibilities and resist and suggestions that tell you to stick to one approach; later you can make your own judgements. That includes the use of a 1-2" block.


More long-winded and poor, one-dimensional advice. The smart thing to do is try everything yourself, and decide. Heel blocks rule, and should be tried rather than following foolish advice like this in which someone else presumes to know better.

Smith machine-same thing. Rather than follow some lame generalization from someone here, try for yourself and decide. Some guys including Yates find the Smith squat far better than regular squats, some think the opposite-you try, you decide. Simple. Does not matter beginner or experienced; in fact machines often offer advantages to beginner who then don't have to worry about balance issues.

stupid pinch fight aside that is a fact find what works best for you and do not let others tell you different.

[pumpster]

that is a fact find what works best for you and do not let others tell you different.

There you have it.

[JPM]

Let's see here, where to start.......believe I said "I think the Smith machine get's a bad rep, it can be a rewarding piece of equipment, but it can demand a learning phase that a lot of people don't care to invest in". And "Puting the heels on a 2" (or whatever) block would be counter productive and certainly prone to injury if one is serious  about actually doing TOE/KNEE Line Squats". The knee will tend to shoot forward in a natural reaction because of the load put upon the knee joints, for one. If anyone had ever tried to do that type of raised squat than you may understand the problems involved.Some may adapt well but most will not. Of course any one can see that this is not refering to any other form of squat, just the case in point TOE/KNEE line squats. Not really hard to understand at all. As long as I have been posting at this site I have suggested, many times over, the benefit of more quad recuitment, better form and balance when squating on a 2" block. I also apply this to BB Hack squats with good quad results.

The great thing about lifting is that everyone will have the opportunity to experiment on themselves to see what works the best. That is just common logic.

The Pumpster will be given the HOWARD DEAN award this weekend for outstanding pettiness and fuzzy logic. A well deserved award indeed.  Good Luck to my pal.

[pumpster]

Well you made it through without your usual vindictive ejaculations, though there's still time to hold true to form.