Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Rimbaud on November 08, 2006, 08:32:47 PM
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I'm interested in hearing your thoughts & opinions on the following cycle:
Weeks 1-20 625mg Test E
Weeks 1-18 300mg Deca
Weeks 1-7 60mg Tbol ED
Weeks 15-20 75mg Winny ED
Weeks 1-20 1mg Adex EOD
Weeks 2-20 300mcg HCG
Weeks 22-26 PCT (the usual stuff)
I'll also be throwing some Clen & T3 into the mix.
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Looks pretty solid maybe drop the deca 2 weeks sooner that stuff lingers forever. 625mg test E? ;D Why not round that off to 750. while your at it I like the sound of 400mg deca more than 300mg.
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Looks pretty solid maybe drop the deca 2 weeks sooner that stuff lingers forever. 625mg test E? ;D Why not round that off to 750. while your at it I like the sound of 400mg deca more than 300mg.
LOL. I love it.
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625mg test E? ;D Why not round that off to 750.
Because I had a 50ml jug of 250mg/ml Test E & I wanted to run a 20 week cycle. So it works out to 2.5ml a week.
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while your at it I like the sound of 400mg deca more than 300mg.
I've never used Deca so I want to see how I react to 300 before I use more (I've always used EQ in the past).
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I've never used Deca so I want to see how I react to 300 before I use more (I've always used EQ in the past).
You will like it. All the more reason to keep your test high, although I have never had "deca dick" and personally believe it to be a myth started by a dumbass who ran deca by itself.
You will be able to go heavy with the deca, your joints will feel like superman...
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DIVISIONAL CHANGES:
Weeks 1-8 60mg Tbol ED
Weeks 9-16 75mg Winny ED
Weeks 1-16 300mg Deca
Weeks 15-20 100mg Tren ED
Weeks 1-20 750mg Test E
Weeks 1-20 1mg Adex EOD
Weeks 1-20 500IU HCG E4D
The dosages are in line and everything layers....
On this cycle, even your baby ewoks will be scavenging the moons of endor for Princess Leia's sweet tight ass.
DIV
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DIVISIONAL CHANGES:
On this cycle, even your baby ewoks will be scavenging the moons of endor for Princess Leia's sweet tight ass.
DIV
Got to admit man, you have a way with words....
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Looks good Rim, that is very similar to what i'm running now...
8)
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Looks fine, but I do like Div's recommendations a little more. The added tren will really turn the heat up on the cycle, and I like that he pulled the deca a little sooner then you did...this stuff lingers like a bitch.
I could go w/o the tbol, but then again I've never tried it...its simply never had a large appeal.
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i dont know about divs changes. hes telling him to run tbol for 2 months at 60mg daily then switch up to winstrol. well thats fine s long as rims willing to inject winstrol almost everyday wich i doubt most people would do. and if he runs winny tabs thats just too many orals involved. Id say 6 weeks of tbol is plenty and he is also reccomending shooting the tren everyday for 5 weeks - thats just too much and too toxic.
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i dont know about divs changes. hes telling him to run tbol for 2 months at 60mg daily then switch up to winstrol. well thats fine s long as rims willing to inject winstrol almost everyday wich i doubt most people would do. and if he runs winny tabs thats just too many orals involved. Id say 6 weeks of tbol is plenty and he is also reccomending shooting the tren everyday for 5 weeks - thats just too much and too toxic.
Tbol is a mild anabolic, which is why I decided to run it that long.....and while I know it may seem long, all he's doing is running an oral for the duration of the cycle......just switching from Turinabol to Winstrol.
His liver should be fine with it.
DIV
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I could go w/o the tbol, but then again I've never tried it...its simply never had a large appeal.
Then I think you should try it. It's good stuff.
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i dont know about divs changes. hes telling him to run tbol for 2 months at 60mg daily then switch up to winstrol. well thats fine s long as rims willing to inject winstrol almost everyday wich i doubt most people would do. and if he runs winny tabs thats just too many orals involved. Id say 6 weeks of tbol is plenty and he is also reccomending shooting the tren everyday for 5 weeks - thats just too much and too toxic.
DIV's right Tbol's not very toxic. I've run it alone for eight weeks without any problems.
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I took the advice of several members here and used Tbol instead of Dbol for my current cycle. i will never use Dbol again.
8)
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I took the advice of several members here and used Tbol instead of Dbol for my current cycle. i will never use Dbol again.
8)
I've noticed a big increase in it's popularity over the last year or so. I'll also never use Dbol again.
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why is tbol so much better than dbol? to be honest i've never heard of anyone i know run it except for on the boards
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Then I think you should try it. It's good stuff.
I took the advice of several members here and used Tbol instead of Dbol for my current cycle. i will never use Dbol again.
8)
I'll look into it. What is it about it you like so much? As for me, regardless of tbol or not, dbol never ever again...given it several tries, and every time a big kick in the sack.
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why dont you like dbol arnold?
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Ok- I agree tbol for 8 weeks is OK but you div is also saying to run winstrol for the remaning weeks- too many orals- winstrol is pretty toxic- way more toxic than tbol. tbol is pretty mild. you do not get alot of strength off the stuff. I did not really think it did a whole lot except shrink my nutts. I did get 9-10pds off of a tbol only cycle once but im still puzzled how I gained that much without noticing anything while on cycle- I did not weigh myself once on cycle. weighed myself post cycle thinking I did not make any gains- to my surprise I was up almost 10pds.
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why dont you like dbol arnold?
Bad sides...lethargic, excess bloat, almost sort of disoriented.
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Ok- I agree tbol for 8 weeks is OK but you div is also saying to run winstrol for the remaning weeks- too many orals- winstrol is pretty toxic- way more toxic than tbol. tbol is pretty mild. you do not get alot of strength off the stuff. I did not really think it did a whole lot except shrink my nutts. I did get 9-10pds off of a tbol only cycle once but im still puzzled how I gained that much without noticing anything while on cycle- I did not weigh myself once on cycle. weighed myself post cycle thinking I did not make any gains- to my surprise I was up almost 10pds.
Widow.....
Where do you get some of this bullshit that comes out of your mouth?
Winstrol is not "way more toxic" than Turinabol.
All 17AA orals are equally toxic except for Halotestin which has a triple molecular bond and even that is possibly just overhype in terms of its actual hepatoxicity relative to other orals.
In case you didn't notice, this thread is not about YOU or how YOU felt on Turinabol and just because YOU didn't gain much off it or it didn't feel that strong to YOU, doesn't mean it won't have a much more pronounced effect on someone else.
Why do I have to repeat the same shit over and over and over and over again with you people?
GENETICS.......
Some people respond better to drugs than others and it differs.
Stop assuming everyone reacts the same, because it is not and will never be true.
DIV
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Widow.....
Where do you get some of this bullshit that comes out of your mouth?
Winstrol is not "way more toxic" than Turinabol.
All 17AA orals are equally toxic except for Halotestin which has a triple molecular bond and even that is possibly just overhype in terms of its actual hepatoxicity relative to other orals.
In case you didn't notice, this thread is not about YOU or how YOU felt on Turinabol and just because YOU didn't gain much off it or it didn't feel that strong to YOU, doesn't mean it won't have a much more pronounced effect on someone else.
Why do I have to repeat the same shit over and over and over and over again with you people?
GENETICS.......
Some people respond better to drugs than others and it differs.
Stop assuming everyone reacts the same, because it is not and will never be true.
DIV
all 17aa's are equally toxic- thats bullshit!
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all 17aa's are equally toxic- thats bullshit!
Except for Halo......
If you have some studies to back up your statement that Winstrol is more hepatoxic than Turinabol, let's see them.
DIV
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Except for Halo......
If you have some studies to back up your statement that Winstrol is more hepatoxic than Turinabol, let's see them.
DIV
Ill look. saying all 17aa's are have equal toxicity except halotestin is a complete bullshit statement though.
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just off the top of my head anadrol,mibolerone, methyl tren, M1T, oral masteron, superdrol.
only anadrol is used in the real world medicine wise but all compounds exist and are sold on the blackmarket and are 17AA and are way more toxic than say tbol,anavar,winstrol and dbol.
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I'll look into it. What is it about it you like so much? As for me, regardless of tbol or not, dbol never ever again...given it several tries, and every time a big kick in the sack.
From my experiences it's kind of like a cross between winny & dbol. Except I don't notice the usually dbol sides. There's also very little water retention. From what I've experienced it's just solid muscle gain.
I agree completely with you: NO MORE DBOL!
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On a side note I'll be taking the Tbol for another week (for a total of eight weeks). I haven't decided if I'll take the winny right after or give my liver a little bit of a break. I was thinking about maybe doing some sort of liver cleanse between the orals.
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just off the top of my head anadrol,mibolerone, methyl tren, M1T, oral masteron, superdrol.
I'm talking about real AAS, not pro-hormones......so M1T and superdrol don't belong in the discussion.
The only one of those that I forgot about was mibolerone, but you had to really dig for that because it's very rare.
Cheque drops.......haven't seen them for a long time.
Still, your point is hollow........and Winstrol is not "way more toxic" than Turinabol.
Show me studies, widow, not your personal opinion.
DIV
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On a side note I'll be taking the Tbol for another week (for a total of eight weeks). I haven't decided if I'll take the winny right after or give my liver a little bit of a break. I was thinking about maybe doing some sort of liver cleanse between the orals.
Baby Ewok,
The liver cleanse idea is fruitless because your liver would need an extended break for any type of effect.
I spoke to an endocrinologist about this specifically awhile back and he said there is no real way to protect your liver from 17AA orals while on cycle without reducing the effectiveness of the drugs, so you either run them or you don't.
Calcium D-Glucarate has been proven to work, though it's not a liver cleanse.
DIV
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I'm talking about real AAS, not pro-hormones......so M1T and superdrol don't belong in the discussion.
The only one of those that I forgot about was mibolerone, but you had to really dig for that because it's very rare.
Cheque drops.......haven't seen them for a long time.
Still, your point is hollow........and Winstrol is not "way more toxic" than Turinabol.
Show me studies, widow, not your personal opinion.
M1T and superdrol are not prohormones- shows how much you know about designer drugs :-\
DIV
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M1T and superdrol are not prohormones- shows how much you know about designer drugs
They're listed in Llewellyn's book, but I certainly don't consider them as legit AAS.
More sides than benefits and the same as prohormones.
You still haven't shown me one study to back up your opinion that Winstrol is "way more toxic" than Turinabol.
If you can, I'll admit I was wrong.....
DIV
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Ill try to find some scintific proof. I have ran them both and though the winstrol was harsher. but you saying all 17AA are the same except halo is def not true.
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Ill try to find some scintific proof. I have ran them both and though the winstrol was harsher. but you saying all 17AA are the same except halo is def not true.
Without any studies it's impossible to make that judgement.
Unless your liver talks to you that is.....
DIV
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From my experiences it's kind of like a cross between winny & dbol. Except I don't notice the usually dbol sides. There's also very little water retention. From what I've experienced it's just solid muscle gain.
I concur...
Tbol also gave me a very good sense of well being...i was taking 60mg a day for 6 weeks. there were no side effects and i felt great all day, lots of energy.
Dbol has always bloated me up and made me feel really tired throughout the day...i have taken several different top quality brands and they all did this to me.
I've never seen any proof that orals are as dangerous as people claim. i have a friend who took 100mg Anadrol a day for almost a year straight and his liver was still in near perfect function. Halo didn't change my liver values at all. alot of this oral toxic debate is just theory. back in the 70's guys were taking orals everyday for years at a time, but i'm not saying that is a good idea. i just think the toxic oral theory is a little over-rated IMO.
I'd also like to see some proof about winny being more toxic, i've read that it is easy on the liver.
8)
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I concur...
Tbol also gave me a very good sense of well being...i was taking 60mg a day for 6 weeks. there were no side effects and i felt great all day, lots of energy.
Dbol has always bloated me up and made me feel really tired throughout the day...i have taken several different top quality brands and they all did this to me.
I've never seen any proof that orals are as dangerous as people claim. i have a friend who took 100mg Anadrol a day for almost a year straight and his liver was still in near perfect function. Halo didn't change my liver values at all. alot of this oral toxic debate is just theory. back in the 70's guys were taking orals everyday for years at a time, but i'm not saying that is a good idea. i just think the toxic oral theory is a little over-rated IMO.
I'd also like to see some proof about winny being more toxic, i've read that it is easy on the liver.
8)
For me, Turinabol feels anabolic like Winstrol as far as the muscle pumps, yet not as potent.
I took 100MG and it felt like 50-75MG of Winstrol.
I felt good on Turinabol.
Llewellyn says that it's a "kindler, gentler" version of D-bol, without the sides.
DIV
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Llewellyn says that it's a "kindler, gentler" version of D-bol, without the sides.
I couldn't agree more.
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Update: I'm feeling pretty good so far. The Deca's kicking in & my joints feel great. Test is also kicking in (which is nice or at least my wife thinks so ;) ).
The only thing that sucks is that I haven't trained in six days - I've got a pinched nerve in my back that bothers me from time to time (it's from an injury at work over a year ago). It's crazy because it comes & goes about every other month. I've felt pretty good the last two days so I think I'll do some light training the weekend & then go headlong on Monday again.
I've also noticed a little bit of bloating/water retention so I'll be taking Adex four times a week instead of three (I usually take it Monday, Wednesday, & Friday). Other then that I think I'll ditch the winny & save it for next time (I'll just finish off all the Tbol I have).
The only thing I wish I'd done differently was that I wish I would've taken some measurements & my weight at the beginning on the cycle. Oh well, such is life. I'll probably start keeping track of that in December.
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Glad it's going well for you Rim.
How did you hurt your back at work? Did it flare up again because of your lifting or is it simply one of those things that comes and goes?
BTW, arimidex 4xwk, that's how I do it too...that one more day seems to be a perfect mix most of the time.
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Update: I'm feeling pretty good so far. The Deca's kicking in & my joints feel great. Test is also kicking in (which is nice or at least my wife thinks so ;) ).
The only thing that sucks is that I haven't trained in six days - I've got a pinched nerve in my back that bothers me from time to time (it's from an injury at work over a year ago). It's crazy because it comes & goes about every other month. I've felt pretty good the last two days so I think I'll do some light training the weekend & then go headlong on Monday again.
I've also noticed a little bit of bloating/water retention so I'll be taking Adex four times a week instead of three (I usually take it Monday, Wednesday, & Friday). Other then that I think I'll ditch the winny & save it for next time (I'll just finish off all the Tbol I have).
The only thing I wish I'd done differently was that I wish I would've taken some measurements & my weight at the beginning on the cycle. Oh well, such is life. I'll probably start keeping track of that in December.
Baby Ewok,
I'm glad things are working out for you. What can you do about the pinched nerve? Is this a longterm issue?
Don't worry about the measurements, you should be able to feel whether you are progressing and it will show in your lifts.
DIV
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I messes around with deca recently.
I noticed when I went over 500 mgs a week I got bloated, and lost my sex drive. When I dropped down to 400mgs my sex drive came back, and the water went away.
I think too much deca causes too much estrogen in the body.
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I messes around with deca recently.
I noticed when I went over 500 mgs a week I got bloated, and lost my sex drive. When I dropped down to 400mgs my sex drive came back, and the water went away.
I think too much deca causes too much estrogen in the body.
Those sides are progesteronic, not estrogenic....
DIV
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How did you hurt your back at work?
I don't want to get into it on the thread so I'll send you a PM later explaining it.
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Did it flare up again because of your lifting or is it simply one of those things that comes and goes?
I don't think it's because of lifting. It just kinda comes & goes for the last fourteen months or so (actually it didn't bother me during my last cycle at the beginning of this year). It'll last for a couple days to a week & then go away (only to come back again & again & again...).
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BTW, arimidex 4xwk, that's how I do it too...that one more day seems to be a perfect mix most of the time.
I personally like to use it three times a week (Monday, Wednesday, & Friday) because Adex has a pretty long half life. But I'm retaining a little more water this time around so I'm taking it on Sundays as well. However, I could just be a little paranoid because I started the cycle at a higher body fat then I wanted (I'm at about 15% & I wanted to start it at about 10%). But I started this cycle about two months earlier then I planned because of other things going on in my life (but that's another story for another time).
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What can you do about the pinched nerve? Is this a longterm issue?
So far there's nothing they've been able to do except painkillers & muscle relaxers. Usually it's Motrin (which I refuse to take anymore) & the two mucle relaxers they've been giving me don't help much (I don't even get a buzz >:(). This time around I did get a different mucle relaxer that made me a little spacey & actually helped some. I've got to schedule an MRI in a couple weeks so we'll see what happens then.
As for it being a longterm issue I don't know if it will continue to be a problem but has been an issue for the last fourteen months. I certainly hope it doesn't become one.
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So far there's nothing they've been able to do except painkillers & muscle relaxers. Usually it's Motrin (which I refuse to take anymore) & the two mucle relaxers they've been giving me don't help much (I don't even get a buzz >:(). This time around I did get a different mucle relaxer that made me a little spacey & actually helped some. I've got to schedule an MRI in a couple weeks so we'll see what happens then.
As for it being a longterm issue I don't know if it will continue to be a problem but has been an issue for the last fourteen months. I certainly hope it doesn't become one.
What muscle relaxers?
I've used Flexeril and Norflex.....
They interrupt training because of how they affect the muscles, so I don't use them.
It's hard to train intensely when you can't activate the muscles and they don't react the way they should due to drugs.
DIV
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What muscle relaxers?
I've used Flexeril and Norflex.....
They interrupt training because of how they affect the muscles, so I don't use them.
It's hard to train intensely when you can't activate the muscles and they don't react the way they should due to drugs.
DIV
They gave me Robaxin this time around (it's helped a little actually). Usually it's just Flexeril even though I keep telling them it doesn't work. I don't usually take them except at night (to help me sleep). I'm feeling pretty good today. I didn't do much this weekend - just some stretching & cardio but it's weights again tonight.
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They gave me Robaxin this time around (it's helped a little actually). Usually it's just Flexeril even though I keep telling them it doesn't work. I don't usually take them except at night (to help me sleep). I'm feeling pretty good today. I didn't do much this weekend - just some stretching & cardio but it's weights again tonight.
Flexeril works for me depending on the binders used.
The old white tablets worked great.......but the beige/yellow ones feel weak for some reason.
Flexeril makes my muscles turn to jelly.....which feels good before a massage.
Norflex relaxes my muscles but doesn't make them as liquid as Flexeril.
DIV
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DIVISIONAL CHANGES:
Weeks 1-8 60mg Tbol ED
Weeks 9-16 75mg Winny ED
Weeks 1-16 300mg Deca
Weeks 15-20 100mg Tren ED
Weeks 1-20 750mg Test E
Weeks 1-20 1mg Adex EOD
Weeks 1-20 500IU HCG E4D
The dosages are in line and everything layers....
On this cycle, even your baby ewoks will be scavenging the moons of endor for Princess Leia's sweet tight ass.
DIV
I like this cycle as well, only thing i would add is 50mg clomid from weeks 22-25 just to keep the hcg rebound in check.
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I like this cycle as well, only thing i would add is 50mg clomid from weeks 22-25 just to keep the hcg rebound in check.
I think DIV left off the PCT because that's assumed I'd be using it (which I of course will be doing some PCT).
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I think DIV left off the PCT because that's assumed I'd be using it (which I of course will be doing some PCT).
Even baby ewoks know PCT.
DIV
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Even baby ewoks know PCT.
DIV
Yes we do. ;D
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Looks pretty solid maybe drop the deca 2 weeks sooner that stuff lingers forever. 625mg test E? ;D Why not round that off to 750. while your at it I like the sound of 400mg deca more than 300mg.
Agreed. I would up the Deca to 400 or even 500mg and make the test an even 750mg. When tapering off I would replace the test with Winstrol.
PB
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I'm at about week 12 into my cycle. Everything is going smoothly. I think I'm only up about 10lbs which is fine with me - because I missed three weeks of training (one for a back injury & two for bronchitis). I'm also not increasing my calories & adding more aerobic activity. My goal is mainly to loose a little fat while gaining muscle (which seems to be working). In the last couple weeks some of the water retention has gone away (my face is a little bloated but that's fine with me - it'll be gone in a couple months). So far I'm very satisfied with everything - in spite of missing three weeks of training.
So you don't have to go through the entire topic here's my cycle:
Weeks 1-20 625mg Test E EW
Weeks 1-18 300mg Deca EW
Weeks 1-8 60mg Tbol ED
Weeks 3-20 500IU HCG EW
Weeks 1-20 0.5-1mg Adex (four times a week)
The usual PCT
At this point I'm not sure if I'm going to end the cycle with Winny or not. I might just save it for next time.
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Very nice.
I really like the effects i get from winny at the end of a cycle. Of course it's your choice but i would use it.
8)
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Very nice.
I really like the effects i get from winny at the end of a cycle. Of course it's your choice but i would use it.
8)
I'm leaning towards taking the winny - actually this week but I may just wait two weeks. It's my birthday on Sunday so I'll probably have a drink or two. No sense in stressing my liver any more then I have to.
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Update: I'm feeling pretty good about everything so far. I think I'm only up about ten pounds (hovering around the mid 240's). I probably should have gained more but I haven't increased my calories that much & I'm also doing more cardio then usual (also I missed three weeks or so of training do to illness & a back injury). & my bodyfat has also been lowered a couple percent (maybe around 12%).
I've also decided to ride out the next seven or eight weeks with 50mg of Winny a day. I also might experiment a little with T3 in February to see if I can lower the bodyfat a little more - maybe even see my abs again.
Note: Since this will be my longest cycle (20-21 weeks) once it's over I'll be off again until November.