Thoughts & Opinions...

[whitewidow]

just off the top of my head anadrol,mibolerone, methyl tren, M1T, oral masteron, superdrol.


only anadrol is used in the real world medicine wise but all compounds exist and are sold on the blackmarket and are 17AA and are way more toxic than say tbol,anavar,winstrol and dbol.

[Rimbaud]

I'll look into it. What is it about it you like so much? As for me, regardless of tbol or not, dbol never ever again...given it several tries, and every time a big kick in the sack.

From my experiences it's kind of like a cross between winny & dbol. Except I don't notice the usually dbol sides. There's also very little water retention. From what I've experienced it's just solid muscle gain.

I agree completely with you: NO MORE DBOL!

[Rimbaud]

On a side note I'll be taking the Tbol for another week (for a total of eight weeks). I haven't decided if I'll take the winny right after or give my liver a little bit of a break. I was thinking about maybe doing some sort of liver cleanse between the orals.

[DIVISION]

just off the top of my head anadrol,mibolerone, methyl tren, M1T, oral masteron, superdrol.

I'm talking about real AAS, not pro-hormones......so M1T and superdrol don't belong in the discussion.

The only one of those that I forgot about was mibolerone, but you had to really dig for that because it's very rare.

Cheque drops.......haven't seen them for a long time.

Still, your point is hollow........and Winstrol is not "way more toxic" than Turinabol.

Show me studies, widow, not your personal opinion.



DIV

[DIVISION]

On a side note I'll be taking the Tbol for another week (for a total of eight weeks). I haven't decided if I'll take the winny right after or give my liver a little bit of a break. I was thinking about maybe doing some sort of liver cleanse between the orals.

Baby Ewok,

The liver cleanse idea is fruitless because your liver would need an extended break for any type of effect.

I spoke to an endocrinologist about this specifically awhile back and he said there is no real way to protect your liver from 17AA orals while on cycle without reducing the effectiveness of the drugs, so you either run them or you don't.

Calcium D-Glucarate has been proven to work, though it's not a liver cleanse.


DIV

[whitewidow]

I'm talking about real AAS, not pro-hormones......so M1T and superdrol don't belong in the discussion.

The only one of those that I forgot about was mibolerone, but you had to really dig for that because it's very rare.

Cheque drops.......haven't seen them for a long time.

Still, your point is hollow........and Winstrol is not "way more toxic" than Turinabol.

Show me studies, widow, not your personal opinion.

M1T and superdrol are not prohormones- shows how much you know about designer drugs



DIV

[DIVISION]

M1T and superdrol are not prohormones- shows how much you know about designer drugs

They're listed in Llewellyn's book, but I certainly don't consider them as legit AAS.

More sides than benefits and the same as prohormones.

You still haven't shown me one study to back up your opinion that Winstrol is "way more toxic" than Turinabol.

If you can, I'll admit I was wrong.....



DIV

[whitewidow]

Ill try to find some scintific proof. I have ran them both and though the winstrol was harsher. but you saying all 17AA are the same except halo is def not true.

[DIVISION]

Ill try to find some scintific proof. I have ran them both and though the winstrol was harsher. but you saying all 17AA are the same except halo is def not true.

Without any studies it's impossible to make that judgement.

Unless your liver talks to you that is.....



DIV

[Overload]

From my experiences it's kind of like a cross between winny & dbol. Except I don't notice the usually dbol sides. There's also very little water retention. From what I've experienced it's just solid muscle gain.

I concur...

Tbol also gave me a very good sense of well being...i was taking 60mg a day for 6 weeks. there were no side effects and i felt great all day, lots of energy.

Dbol has always bloated me up and made me feel really tired throughout the day...i have taken several different top quality brands and they all did this to me.

I've never seen any proof that orals are as dangerous as people claim. i have a friend who took 100mg Anadrol a day for almost a year straight and his liver was still in near perfect function. Halo didn't change my liver values at all. alot of this oral toxic debate is just theory. back in the 70's guys were taking orals everyday for years at a time, but i'm not saying that is a good idea. i just think the toxic oral theory is a little over-rated IMO.

I'd also like to see some proof about winny being more toxic, i've read that it is easy on the liver.

[DIVISION]

I concur...

Tbol also gave me a very good sense of well being...i was taking 60mg a day for 6 weeks. there were no side effects and i felt great all day, lots of energy.

Dbol has always bloated me up and made me feel really tired throughout the day...i have taken several different top quality brands and they all did this to me.

I've never seen any proof that orals are as dangerous as people claim. i have a friend who took 100mg Anadrol a day for almost a year straight and his liver was still in near perfect function. Halo didn't change my liver values at all. alot of this oral toxic debate is just theory. back in the 70's guys were taking orals everyday for years at a time, but i'm not saying that is a good idea. i just think the toxic oral theory is a little over-rated IMO.

I'd also like to see some proof about winny being more toxic, i've read that it is easy on the liver.

For me, Turinabol feels anabolic like Winstrol as far as the muscle pumps, yet not as potent.

I took 100MG and it felt like 50-75MG of Winstrol.

I felt good on Turinabol.

Llewellyn says that it's a "kindler, gentler" version of D-bol, without the sides.




DIV

[Rimbaud]

Llewellyn says that it's a "kindler, gentler" version of D-bol, without the sides.

I couldn't agree more.

[Rimbaud]

Update: I'm feeling pretty good so far. The Deca's kicking in & my joints feel great. Test is also kicking in (which is nice or at least my wife thinks so  ).

The only thing that sucks is that I haven't trained in six days - I've got a pinched nerve in my back that bothers me from time to time (it's from an injury at work over a year ago). It's crazy because it comes & goes about every other month. I've felt pretty good the last two days so I think I'll do some light training the weekend & then go headlong on Monday again.

I've also noticed a little bit of bloating/water retention so I'll be taking Adex four times a week instead of three (I usually take it Monday, Wednesday, & Friday). Other then that I think I'll ditch the winny & save it for next time (I'll just finish off all the Tbol I have).

The only thing I wish I'd done differently was that I wish I would've taken some measurements & my weight at the beginning on the cycle. Oh well, such is life. I'll probably start keeping track of that in December.

[Arnold jr]

Glad it's going well for you Rim.

How did you hurt your back at work? Did it flare up again because of your lifting or is it simply one of those things that comes and goes?

BTW, arimidex 4xwk, that's how I do it too...that one more day seems to be a perfect mix most of the time.

[DIVISION]

Update: I'm feeling pretty good so far. The Deca's kicking in & my joints feel great. Test is also kicking in (which is nice or at least my wife thinks so  ).

The only thing that sucks is that I haven't trained in six days - I've got a pinched nerve in my back that bothers me from time to time (it's from an injury at work over a year ago). It's crazy because it comes & goes about every other month. I've felt pretty good the last two days so I think I'll do some light training the weekend & then go headlong on Monday again.

I've also noticed a little bit of bloating/water retention so I'll be taking Adex four times a week instead of three (I usually take it Monday, Wednesday, & Friday). Other then that I think I'll ditch the winny & save it for next time (I'll just finish off all the Tbol I have).

The only thing I wish I'd done differently was that I wish I would've taken some measurements & my weight at the beginning on the cycle. Oh well, such is life. I'll probably start keeping track of that in December.

Baby Ewok,

I'm glad things are working out for you.  What can you do about the pinched nerve?  Is this a longterm issue?

Don't worry about the measurements, you should be able to feel whether you are progressing and it will show in your lifts.


DIV

[coolioni]

I messes around with deca recently.
I noticed when I went over 500 mgs a week I got bloated, and lost my sex drive. When I dropped down to 400mgs my sex drive came back, and the water went away.
I think too much deca causes too much estrogen in the body.

[DIVISION]

I messes around with deca recently.
I noticed when I went over 500 mgs a week I got bloated, and lost my sex drive. When I dropped down to 400mgs my sex drive came back, and the water went away.
I think too much deca causes too much estrogen in the body.

Those sides are progesteronic, not estrogenic....




DIV

[Rimbaud]

How did you hurt your back at work?

I don't want to get into it on the thread so I'll send you a PM later explaining it.

[Rimbaud]

Did it flare up again because of your lifting or is it simply one of those things that comes and goes?

I don't think it's because of lifting. It just kinda comes & goes for the last fourteen months or so (actually it didn't bother me during my last cycle at the beginning of this year). It'll last for a couple days to a week & then go away (only to come back again & again & again...).

[Rimbaud]

BTW, arimidex 4xwk, that's how I do it too...that one more day seems to be a perfect mix most of the time.

I personally like to use it three times a week (Monday, Wednesday, & Friday) because Adex has a pretty long half life. But I'm retaining a little more water this time around so I'm taking it on Sundays as well. However, I could just be a little paranoid because I started the cycle at a higher body fat then I wanted (I'm at about 15% & I wanted to start it at about 10%). But I started this cycle about two months earlier then I planned because of other things going on in my life (but that's another story for another time).

[Rimbaud]

What can you do about the pinched nerve?  Is this a longterm issue?

So far there's nothing they've been able to do except painkillers & muscle relaxers. Usually it's Motrin (which I refuse to take anymore) & the two mucle relaxers they've been giving me don't help much (I don't even get a buzz  ). This time around I did get a different mucle relaxer that made me a little spacey & actually helped some. I've got to schedule an MRI in a couple weeks so we'll see what happens then.

As for it being a longterm issue I don't know if it will continue to be a problem but has been an issue for the last fourteen months. I certainly hope it doesn't become one.

[DIVISION]

So far there's nothing they've been able to do except painkillers & muscle relaxers. Usually it's Motrin (which I refuse to take anymore) & the two mucle relaxers they've been giving me don't help much (I don't even get a buzz  ). This time around I did get a different mucle relaxer that made me a little spacey & actually helped some. I've got to schedule an MRI in a couple weeks so we'll see what happens then.

As for it being a longterm issue I don't know if it will continue to be a problem but has been an issue for the last fourteen months. I certainly hope it doesn't become one.

What muscle relaxers?

I've used Flexeril and Norflex.....

They interrupt training because of how they affect the muscles, so I don't use them.

It's hard to train intensely when you can't activate the muscles and they don't react the way they should due to drugs.



DIV

[Rimbaud]

What muscle relaxers?

I've used Flexeril and Norflex.....

They interrupt training because of how they affect the muscles, so I don't use them.

It's hard to train intensely when you can't activate the muscles and they don't react the way they should due to drugs.



DIV

They gave me Robaxin this time around (it's helped a little actually). Usually it's just Flexeril even though I keep telling them it doesn't work. I don't usually take them except at night (to help me sleep). I'm feeling pretty good today. I didn't do much this weekend - just some stretching & cardio but it's weights again tonight.

[DIVISION]

They gave me Robaxin this time around (it's helped a little actually). Usually it's just Flexeril even though I keep telling them it doesn't work. I don't usually take them except at night (to help me sleep). I'm feeling pretty good today. I didn't do much this weekend - just some stretching & cardio but it's weights again tonight.

Flexeril works for me depending on the binders used.

The old white tablets worked great.......but the beige/yellow ones feel weak for some reason.

Flexeril makes my muscles turn to jelly.....which feels good before a massage.

Norflex relaxes my muscles but doesn't make them as liquid as Flexeril.


DIV

[toolarge4u]

DIVISIONAL CHANGES:


Weeks 1-8     60mg Tbol ED
Weeks 9-16   75mg Winny ED
Weeks 1-16   300mg Deca
Weeks 15-20 100mg Tren ED
Weeks 1-20   750mg Test E
Weeks 1-20   1mg Adex EOD
Weeks 1-20 500IU HCG E4D


The dosages are in line and everything layers....

On this cycle, even your baby ewoks will be scavenging the moons of endor for Princess Leia's sweet tight ass.



DIV

I like this cycle as well, only thing i would add is 50mg clomid from weeks 22-25 just to keep the hcg rebound in check.