Why do all the Pros have huge mid sections?

[Van_Bilderass]

A basic understanding of how GH, IGF and Insulin's mechanisms of action are all you need.

It is not. Just because the intestines for example have a lot of igf-1 receptors doesn't automatically mean your intestines are going to grow on hGH or pure igf-1 for that matter. Take a guy who gets on a low dose of hGH and notices that his belly is distended a few weeks in - should he automatically assume his intestines have grown? No. It can be a temporary swelling of some tissues or whatever. Many have noticed that the belly comes down after coming off, which shouldn't happen if the intestines actually grew (to my understanding).

And you and Tim say hGH increases VAT when the available evidence points to the opposite.

Insulin and hGH are a cause of distended bellies but the mechanism(s) aren't fully elucidated IMO.

[Fatpanda]

I have a Masters of Science  in geophysics.  Worked ten years at JPL NASA, working on two space shuttle missions and one deep space mission.  Am listed as co-author on a couple of papers in peer reviewed journals.  Oh and I was married to an M.D. for the four years of his residency, helped him study for his psych boards.  (then he dumped me)

WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT UFO'S ??

[Fatpanda]

from vans post its clear it isn't VAT that causes the guts, however i disagree about steroids causing the guts - abuse or not.

as has been pointed out - the guts didn't start appearing untill mid to late 90's - what drugs first started being used then? and you'll have your answer.

in saying that - milos uses insulin and doesn't have a gut so, however he doesn't abuse it ( if his posts here are to be believed).

we'll probably never know for sure.

i know disgusted and kamali believe it was the insulin that caused his gut, but he has been off it for some time and still has it.

[Heywood]

In the olden days, bodybuilders ate a huge meal after the show.

These days, bodybuilders eat their huge meal right before the show, giving themselves that "stuffed" appearance.

[muscularny]

the guys using humalog do not have this problem vs those using hum-r

hum-r does not require a script and humalog does, as many turned to hum-r the guts kept growing and growing

[drkaje]

It is not. Just because the intestines for example have a lot of igf-1 receptors doesn't automatically mean your intestines are going to grow on hGH or pure igf-1 for that matter. Take a guy who gets on a low dose of hGH and notices that his belly is distended a few weeks in - should he automatically assume his intestines have grown? No. It can be a temporary swelling of some tissues or whatever. Many have noticed that the belly comes down after coming off, which shouldn't happen if the intestines actually grew (to my understanding).

And you and Tim say hGH increases VAT when the available evidence points to the opposite.

Insulin and hGH are a cause of distended bellies but the mechanism(s) aren't fully elucidated IMO.

Some of the distention is likely from fluid because both GH and IGF can affect sodium channels via two mechanisms. Some comes from growth and the rest has to be visceral fat. You're forgetting that people taking GH have increased insulin sensitivity, which is totally opposite of the typical fatass.

The drugs do what they do but some of the normal endocrine rules (feedback + or -, signaling) are being messed with.

I can remember reading mags as a teen and some pros would do test until they pissed black and no one had huge guts. I'm assuming the pros were eating food back then.

This is simply a case where people don't like the answer because the big belly is probably permanent. Most other drug effects will go away when people stop using drugs but thinking that that fat gut will be there forever is more than people want to deal with. Diet can affect visceral fat but isn't going to make organs get smaller or shrink smooth muscles.

[MAXX]

I'll say insulin.

Growing organs from GH would not be so significant to give such a gut imo.

[Mr Nobody]

OK why does Tony Freeman not have a huge stomach? I guess no Insulin and GH? Still confused.

[Mr Nobody]

see this
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1545/51/

[drkaje]

see this
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1545/51/

Someone's gonna complain about the article and remind us how Palumbo wrote 'it's all because of food' two years ago.

[Van_Bilderass]

from vans post its clear it isn't VAT that causes the guts, however i disagree about steroids causing the guts - abuse or not.

I didn't say steroids are the cause. Before GH became widely used there was the term "roid belly". It does contribute and specific products, like some orals, cause distention in some users. If it's true Coleman does 10 Anadrols leading up to the Olympia (like someone here said) then it's likely contributing the the distention we saw in him IMO. Kamali said Wolf looked like he was using tons of Anadrol while being "trained" by Chad.

Hopefully no one reading my posts thinks I'm saying GH and insulin don't cause distention. That's not it, I'm saying we don't know how much organ growth is contributing to the problem.

You're forgetting that people taking GH have increased insulin sensitivity, which is totally opposite of the typical fatass.

You are getting your terms and facts mixed up. GH does NOT cause increased insulin sensitivity. It does the opposite and adding insulin only makes it worse. High dose GH causes such poor insulin sensitivity that some must add extra insulin. So yes, a pro can have poor sensitivity just like a typical fatass. Poor sensitivity can actually help you reduce subq fat since the fat is less sensitive to insulin. The fat burning effect is related to the fact that GH causes insulin resistance. (this is a longer topic that I'm not getting into now).

[Relentless]

Pro bodybuilding is in an very interesting state right now.  The pros are as big as they have ever been, but the more muscle someone puts on their torso and limbs leads to an inevitable gain around the waist as well.  There is no pro on the IFBB stage today who can boast of a flat stomach when relaxed; THEY ALL HAVE SOME SORT OF DISTENSION, JUST TO VARYING DEGREES.

Question is: why does it still bother some of you so much?  This is reality...the sport isn't going back to 70s and 80s when guys like Frank Zane were winning contests.  GET OVER IT!

[Van_Bilderass]

see this
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1545/51/

He makes the assumption that pros have lots of VAT at contest time. The evidence says VAT is reduced with GH despite the insulin resistance (and the resulting increased insulin). The lipolytic effects of GH override the lipogenic effects of the increased insulin when it comes subq fat - that is obvious by looking at bodybuilders. I think the same is true of VAT, especially at contest time. An offseason Trey Brewer having increased VAT I can see, but he's fat all over.

[timfogarty]

Before GH became widely used there was the term "roid belly".

Evidence please.  GH became widely used in the late 1980s.   the term roid belly or roid gut is more recent

[Van_Bilderass]

Evidence please.  GH became widely used in the late 1980s.   the term roid belly or roid gut is more recent

All I remember is seeing it in mags like MMI in the late 80s. I don't think it was widely used by then, it was prohibitively expensive to run in any meaningful dosage by most.

Take a poll of a large pool of bodybuilders who don't use insulin or GH and you'll see quite a few say steroids cause some distention.

[timfogarty]

All I remember is seeing it in mags like MMI in the late 80s. I don't think it was widely used by then, it was prohibitively expensive to run in any meaningful dosage by most.

rhGH became available in the US in 1985, replacing all cadaver derived gh.   within a few years the price dropped quickly and it flooded the black market.

[Van_Bilderass]

rhGH became available in the US in 1985, replacing all cadaver derived gh.   within a few years the price dropped quickly and it flooded the black market.

So do you have a price quote for say 4iu's straight out of the pharmacy around that time (I assume this was the 192AA Protropin)? I mean it's still extremely expensive from legitimate channels. Guys who aren't rich get it from China, buy it from HIV patients or dwarfs (lol) or sometimes stolen (as is the case with Norditropin out of Denmark over here in my part of the world). China GH wasn't around then and it wasn't approved for HIV.

[New Hank Wood]

F@cktards without a clue.  Yes, you continue to use the google machine to  try and find an explanation for the roid belly....and still no evidence!

I, myself just jumped on google, and guess what, there is article after article relatingto gh and insulin; discussing these substances remarkable  'fat reducing'/belly reducing powers!

Again, for you f@cktards who don't get it; stop eating/consuming obscene volumes of food, water and drugs and watch the bellies disappear.....and stop blaming gh and slin for the pregnant look...you bunch of ignorant and close minded google-obsessed retards!

[Rami]

you stupid bastard 

GH                GEE-HOOE

[gh15]

only when i started heavy doses of slin the gut came out ,,that shoudl tell you something friends,,

on gh never ,,actually waist went down on gh,,only when added insulin the gut expanded

[New Hank Wood]

Again, today's Pro's are massive overcompensators.  They have become seduced by the lies that our materialistic and shallow society purports; And that is, more is better.

Well, in the case of these drug addict Pros,  more=bigger bellies.

That's right f@cktards, it is more than gh and slin that brings on the pregnancies....It is the over consumption of 'all things' that is the cause of this repulsive bloated phenomena!

[Fatpanda]

in theory when you look at each individual compound most would think gh is the culprit due to its ability to cause growth in everything.

i have often wondered if the reason for the guts was continued use of gh year round. As i know many top pro's are using high dosages of gh ( and slin) while taking a break from gear to keep their mass, then they add the gear back when preping for a show and grow into it. i originally thought that the constant gh year round caused the guts. however the biggest abusers of gh in the world are probably proffesional athletes - specifically from the nfl, nba, mlb and olympians, and they have no guts ( bodybuilders sized guts that is).

the only new compounds from 95 onwards were insulin, then igf-1, and later pgf etc. thats when they started showing up.

gh does have ugly sides for definate though i.e. bone growth - as you can see from cutlers jaw, cormiers skull, ronnies skull, dexters skull, etc

[Sherief Shalaby]

Just trying to understand the cause?

no not all of them.. here are 2 examples with good midsection size for their over all size!!

[New Hank Wood]

Yes, Nasser El Synthol helped to usher in the pregnant belly. 

His use of gh and slin was always blamed for his huge bloated belly.

However, if any of you f@cktards want to do one your 'google searches' you will find that gh and slin actually promote weight loss and reduces abdominal adipose tissue.

Yes retards, Nasser had an horrendous pregnant belly.  It was caused by his obsessive eating habits and not his drug addictions to roids, gh, slin etc!

PS...This new book of Nasser's...still no mention of his treatment of his spouse...utterly disgusting and violent human being...Yes, violence against women is reprehensible!

[m8]

Yes, Nasser El Synthol helped to usher in the pregnant belly. 

His use of gh and slin was always blamed for his huge bloated belly.

However, if any of you f@cktards want to do one your 'google searches' you will find that gh and slin actually promote weight loss and reduces abdominal adipose tissue.

Yes retards, Nasser had an horrendous pregnant belly.  It was caused by his obsessive eating habits and not his drug addictions to roids, gh, slin etc!

PS...This new book of Nasser's...still no mention of his treatment of his spouse...utterly disgusting and violent human being...Yes, violence against women is reprehensible!