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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: Stark on December 17, 2012, 01:13:09 PM
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They called them nanny dogs, since they were best suited to look after kids, dog aggressive NOT human aggressive plain and simple, don't believe me? See pictures below, not all are from the victorian age but they prove a point that bull terriers, pitbulls or what ever you want to call these dogs have no natural tendency to harm humans.
We don't need more guns in school but maybe a few of these dogs, lets see what happens if a well trained bully charges a potential shooter - Get some monster pitbulls from the http://www.bossykennels.com/ and give each security guy one, make him a school pet a mascot.
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There's a bunch of websites dedicated to nanny dogs.
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There's a bunch of websites dedicated to nanny dogs.
I would love a pitbull again :( sad to say they are still to be had here in ireland but the laws are changing soon, I be scared that I have to give him away once I have him, look at this jacked bully
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the staffy is the 'nanny dog', no the scumbull
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the staffy is the 'nanny dog', no the scumbull
I am pretty sure that not all staffys were actual staffys these dogs have been bread and mixed for a long time - I am not saying all of these dogs are save with kids, its just sad how overly hyped the genearl population gets when they see something that looks like a pitbul, changing sides of the street, picking up kids, taking their own dog on a leash (that last one might be a good idea lol)..
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gorgeous, do they still cut the ears like that? Last dog I had was a German mini schnauzer which my wife brought with her in our marriage - she had her ears like that as well, if I had to choose between an american bulldog or staffy or what ever and or a Schnauzer it would be hard, Schnauzers are such awesome strong minded dogs and so much fun to have around, we had to sadly put her asleep she got cancer, the only good thing was that we did not have to bring her to the doctor, her mother is a nurse so she brought the meds home we all were around here (at that stage she couldn't get up anymore) she got cuddled and her mom gave her the injection, she just yellped and tried to get up but than drifted away.
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Pete, the Dog from the little Rascales was a Pit Bull
(http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID29030/images/pete%281%29.jpg)
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i have a 2 year old blue eyed gray pitbull here is a pic of BRUCE (ALL MIGHTY) as a puppy
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I am pretty sure that not all staffys were actual staffys these dogs have been bread and mixed for a long time - I am not saying all of these dogs are save with kids, its just sad how overly hyped the genearl population gets when they see something that looks like a pitbul, changing sides of the street, picking up kids, taking their own dog on a leash (that last one might be a good idea lol)..
For sure the breeds have changed over the years, and back in the old days, there was a fair amount of cross-breeding to improve fighting stock etc... Some lost breeds, too, like the Blue Paul. Staffordshire Bull Terriers were also brought to a slightly different (stockier) standard in the 40's or so by registering bodies. But that said, "nanny dog" is typically used in reference to Staffies, and not the generally larger, but relatively closely related pitbulls / American Staffordshire Terrier.
(http://i.imgur.com/MUDoE.jpg)
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i have a 2 year old blue eyed gray pitbull here is a pic of BRUCE (ALL MIGHTY) as a puppy
lolol so cute, the way they walk gets me every time, you just want to pick them up, they also have that "puppy" smell, my son smell reminds me of that sometimes, its that "new" smell cannot describe it, but it smells real good.
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For sure the breeds have changed over the years, and back in the old days, there was a fair amount of cross-breeding to improve fighting stock etc... Some lost breeds, too, like the Blue Paul. Staffordshire Bull Terriers were also brought to a slightly different (stockier) standard in the 40's or so by registering bodies. But that said, "nanny dog" is typically used in reference to Staffies, and not the generally larger, but relatively closely related pitbulls / American Staffordshire Terrier.
cool learned something new today, thanks.
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Surprised E-Kul hasn't been in this thread yet screaming for the deaths of all pitbulls. ::)
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Stark, didn't you say you wanted to drown my pitbull puppy when I posted a picture of her? lol
The only problem I have with my dog Lucy is that she loves cuddling and attention way too much. Pitbulls can be tough on the exterior but they're the biggest wimps ever. I have to be careful if I scold Lucy because she'll get really remorseful and bites back with soul crushing sadness in her eyes lol
Little shit always tries sneaking under any blanket that's left unguarded. I have a few friends with young pitbulls and they noticed the same thing too. I can suplex them and get really aggressive when we play, but the moment you chill out all they want to do is cuddle. They're wimpy little muscle machines. I love them.
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if i had kids i'd never let them close to such brute animals who could rip their face off in the blink of an eye
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New Rule: You can't complain when your pittbull eats your child's face and you are automatically dropped to the status of white trash/ghetto black if/when it happens.
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stupid idea
dumb animal can do anthing stupid
armed private security is answer
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Beautiful dogs. Problem is too many retards own them >:(
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Beautiful dogs. Problem is too many retards own them >:(
Brutal logical post.
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if i had kids i'd never let them close to such brute animals who could rip their face off in the blink of an eye
Then thank god you're impotent.
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Then thank god you're impotent.
but i'm not
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Yes.. The stafford shire was know as the nanny dog.. But the original pit looked like the RCA dog.. The "little rascals" dog.. Only 45 to 55 pounds..what we see many times today is not.. What we see sometimes today is pits mixed with breeds to get them bigger or to give them a bully look.. But a true pit is pretty small but muscular and sinewy.. I have 2.. Best breed possible..
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if i had kids i'd never let them close to such brute animals who could rip their face off in the blink of an eye
You are gay, so thankfully you can't procreate. In addition, I think that your mental instability will prevent you from adopting.
Stick to owning hamsters.... ;)
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i have a 2 year old blue eyed gray pitbull here is a pic of BRUCE (ALL MIGHTY) as a puppy
Cute pup.
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Beautiful dogs. Problem is too many retards own them >:(
one more retard (aka Stark) can't hurt.
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No, the retard statement is pretty accurate. I work with the group that rescued all the vick dogs. Pits are amazing animals, and when raised by normal people, are normal dogs.
before the 80's, they were never involved in attacks. Since the explosion of rap culture, influx of immigration, and glamorization of thug life, the dogs have been abused, exploited, and their PR has been ruined. but this is a cyclical process, and it has happened before with numerous other breeds, like the blood hound, the german shep, dobermans, rotts...whatever the fad dog is that retards have, they turn into monsters.
here comes "e-kul" to call me a "pidiot," and talk about what horrific creatures they are.
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The pit bull apologia would have you believe that their fighting bred dogs are just like any other dog in many ways, but so superior in their unparalleled love and devotion for children they were commonly known as "The Nanny Dog" throughout the late 19th and early 20th centuries. If pit bulls are held in low esteem today, it is only due to ignorance and the gullible acceptance of biased news reporting because, once upon a time, pit bulls were the most beloved dog in England and the United States.
A google search brings up 77,100 results for the term "nanny dog." While some sites bestow the Nanny Dog mantle on the American Pit Bull Terrier or the American Staffordshire Terrier and some lead you to productions of Peter Pan, most of the results lead you to 21st century blogs and news articles about the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
120 sites dedicated to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier include this phrase in support of the fighting nanny dog mythology,
"These dogs were renowned for their courage and tenacity and despite their ferocity in the pit were excellent companions and good with children. In fact it was not unknown for an injured dog to be transported home in a pram with the baby!"
Frankly, even if this anecdote were plausible, let alone true, this doesn't support a nanny dog claim so much as it supports a sociopathic, baby abusing, dog abusing, parent claim.
Dig as hard as you want, the pram story is all you'll find to support the Nanny Dog myth in any of these sites. You won't find a single citation, quote or reference of any kind to a 19th century, or early 20th century text. Since the Staffordshire Bull Terrier enthusiasts didn't see fit to support their claims, I decided I would have to find the origin of the Nanny Dog myself.
Meet the Nanny Dog - the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, England's ultimate fighting dog and, inexplicably, the supposed dog of choice to care for England's children in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rX_oqLqwCKQ/TFzCnX1CzsI/AAAAAAAAAB0/hnA3tT8rtJE/s400/pitbullmagazine.jpg)
It is not hard to find old references to the Bull Terrier. The various histories and descriptions of the breed largely agree with each other. After bull baiting was banned in England, Coalminers in various cities including Staffordshire were at a loss for blood sporting alternatives for their beloved, courageous bulldogs. So, they developed another blood sport - pit dog fighting. Sadly, they soon found their bulldogs were not suited to win in the pit.
According to a 1908 New York Times article,
"The old lovers of the bulldog found to their dismay that sometimes a terrier, with only quickness and a pair of punishing jaws to recommend him, would kill a bulldog while the latter was merely hanging on. The bulldog would be brave to the death of course, and would withstand pain that the terrier would never endure, but that was poor consolation when the terrier had killed the dog.
The dog fighters were, however, as persevering a set of men as were the bull baiters, and they set to work to remodel their favorites for their new occupation. They began to cross their bulldogs with the white English terrier, a breed now practically extinct, but the same in every respect, save color, as the modern Manchester or black-and-tan. The progeny was named the bull terrier, the greatest fighting machine, pound for pound, on four legs. The bull terrier had the courage of the bulldog and the jaws and quickness of the white terrier. Moreover, he has the terrier's way of fighting. He does not simply take a hold and stay there. He takes a hold and begins to eat his way through and tear and worry. If his first hold doesn't suit, he takes another. If he gets his adversary by the throat, he will tear out the throat in a minute or so and end the battle."
"There is perhaps no more beautiful illustration of the results of artificial selection than is provided in the history of the bulldog. It is a wonderful example of patient and skillful breeding for an object that is not wholly ignoble.
We can agree to disagree on that last point.
It is a bit confounding that the New York Times author neglected to mention the Staffordshire dog fighter's even more stupendous genetic achievement, that of creating an unstoppable "fighting machine" that can also be used to nanny their children.
Nineteenth century dog breed books, such as The Illustrated Natural History (Mammalia), by Rev. JG Wood (1853), and The Dogs of the British Islands, by J.H. Walsh (1878) very precisely describe the deadly nature of the Bull Terrier, including an account of a Bull Terrier's attack on a rhinoceros by a dog "called Venus in derision of her ugliness."(Wood, p. 311) Walsh suggests that, "unlike the bulldog, he (the Bull Terrier) is an excellent companion for the male sex, being a little too violent in his quarrels to make him desirable as a ladies' pet (p. 221)." Nanny Dog? Not so much.
In 1894, Rawdon B. Lee wrote A History and Description of the Modern Dogs of Great Britain and Ireland in which he explains that in the middle of the 19th century, fanciers began to breed bull terriers as "a gentleman's companion" and began showing them. It was about this time that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier began to be recognized as distinct from the Bull Terrier. The Kennel Club in England recognized the Bull Terrier in the last quarter of the 19th century, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier became the pit fighting dog of choice. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier was denied Kennel Club recognition until 1935 because of its reputation as a pit fighting dog.
Lee illustrates the Bull Terrier's unsavory past by revealing that Bulls-eye, one of the meanest dogs in literary history and Bill Sykes' sidekick and alter ego from Oliver Twist (1838) was a Bull Terrier. Dickens describes Bull's-Eye as having a face "scratched and torn in twenty different places..." and..."who by a certain malicious licking of his lips seemed to be meditating an attack up on the legs of the first gentleman or lady he might encounter in the streets when he went out." Charles Dickens also seemed unaware of the Bull Terrier's special powers as a nanny, but was aware of the pit bull's capacity for human aggression.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rX_oqLqwCKQ/TFzDFf3-zsI/AAAAAAAAAB8/u6kEQh0viXA/s400/bill+sikes+and+bull%27s-eye.jpg)
Charles Dickens' Bill Sikes and Bull's-Eye
Lee (p. 23) contends, "our modern Bull Terrier is a very different creature from what he was half a century ago." According to Lee, they had been perhaps the most popular dog in England, until they were recently supplanted by the Fox Terrier. They were kept for pets and companions, they gained recognition in dog shows, and became fashionable to own among the undergraduates at Oxford and Cambridge. If any pit fighting dog might have been called England's Nanny Dog, surely it would have been the white Bull Terrier. And yet there is no mention of it.
Mr. Lee is perhaps the first recorded pit nutter. He penned what might be the first known iteration of, "It's how you raise them" (p.22, p. 26) which is hilariously followed by the woeful tale of the demise of Mr. Lee's own beloved Bull Terrier, Sam. Sam was incredibly talented and an incomparable companion who, owing to fighting blood on his sire's side, became increasingly aggressive. After killing at least two dogs, Sam was dumped at a warehouse to be a guard dog where he died of a broken heart. 30 years later, Mr. Lee still laments the incredible and bloodthirsty Sam. But, I thought it was how you raise them...
As for 19th century mentions of the "Staffordshire Bull Terrier" that can be found online, there is one. It is a want ad for a fighting dog:
Pleshey Chelmsford Wanted a Staffordshire bull terrier dog must have an exceedingly long nose and thoroughly game to face anything and win A tried dog preferred PS For special purpose weight 34 lb 944 (1871 Exchange and Mart and Journal of the Household (p. 614))
Archive searches of British, American and Canadian newspapers going as far back as the 18th century turn up not one single mention of "Nanny Dog" with regards to ANY breed until 1904 when the first stage production of Peter Pan opened featuring a nursemaid dog named Nana. Though J.M. Barrie patterned Nana after his Landseer Newfoundland, Nana has been portrayed by a St. Bernard, and an Old English Sheep Dog in subsequent stage and screen productions. No mention of Nana ever being a Staffie Bull. Not even in Never Never Land.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rX_oqLqwCKQ/TFzz0x8i1DI/AAAAAAAAACU/LK34mxnrwSE/s400/landseers-newfoundlandflat.jpg)
So, where is the oldest known reference to the Staffie Bull as a nanny dog? In a New York Times article. In 1971, Walter R. Fletcher wrote an article entitled, "A Breed That Came Up the Hard Way" in which he interviewed William R. Daniels and Mrs. Lilian Rant, President and magazine editor for the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club of America on the eve of the Staffie Bull's being granted permission to be shown in the American Kennel Club's miscellaneous class. It's the first step to AKC recognition and the club wanted to polish their dog's image.
Daniels brings up Dickens' villainous Bull's-Eye again and Mrs. Rant acknowledges that the Stafford "had an unsavory reputation for fighting and violence and his name became associated with ruffians, who cared little for him as a dog but only for his ability in the pit. The Stafford we know today quickly becomes a member of the family circle. He loves children and is often referred to as a 'nursemaid dog.'"
Well, there it is. Mrs. Rant, lover and promoter of the Stafford, is clearly speaking in the present tense about the dog of today (1971) currently being referred to as a 'nursemaid dog' in the United States. She is using a variation of the argument that Mr. Lee used 77 years before about the Bull Terrier, suggesting that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier's unsavory reputation as a fighting dog has been left in the far distant past. She harkens back to Dickens again, before the Staffordshire Bull Terrier even existed as a distinct breed. Her contention that Staffordshire Bull Terriers are OFTEN referred to as nursmaid dogs is a little bit of a stretch, too. In 1971, there were 99 registered Staffordshire Bull Terriers in the United States. As editor of the club's magazine, she must have been at the center of all conversation about the breed. It is likely that she either coined the nickname or promulgated it through the magazine, and the term may have gained popularity among those few Stafford enthusiasts who subscribed to her magazine.
A timeline search does not turn up a mention of the "nanny dog" until 1987 in an archived Toronto Star article entitled, Move to Outlaw Pit Bulls Under Study in Several Cities.
"Breeder Kathy Thomas, president of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Association said, 'We're aware of the fighting - there's a lot of it in the Hamilton area. We only sell to family homes.'"
"Thomas, mother of two young children, said her eight Staffordshires are 'wonderful with children. In England, our Staffies were called the nanny-dog because they were gentle with kids.'"
Here's where the lie begins to get twisted into its most bizarre and current form and the Nanny Dog myth jumps on the crazy train. The Nanny Dog argument is no longer valid in the way that Mrs. Rant used it in 1971 when the general public was not aware of contemporary dog fighting. By the 1980s, dog fighting had become a generally recognized problem and initiatives to ban pit bulls were beginning. Kathy Thomas acknowledges that there is dog fighting going on all around her in 1987 near Toronto. She can no longer say that the Staffie was once, long ago, in Dickensian England a fighting dog, but has been transformed by many years of selective breeding to be a gentle nanny dog. The dogs are fighting all around her. So, the lie becomes that Staffordshire Bull Terriers were ALWAYS known as nanny dogs. They snuggled with the babies by day, ripped out throats and gutted each other by night and, returning from the fight, snuggled once again with the baby in the pram, this time ripped to shreds and soaked in blood.
It took about 16 years for the story to mutate into the Nanny dog of England - historic fighter and lover of children. But, the myth did not really take off for another 4 years, when Mrs. Rant published her book in 1991, Staffordshire Bull Terriers: Owner's Companion. She uses the term "nursemaid dog" three times and significantly says, " He has a great affection for children, having earned the title 'nursemaid dog' many years ago." (p.117) In this instance, "many years ago" means about 20 years previous, when she first coined or adopted the term.
And how about the history of the term "America's Nanny Dog" referring to the American Pit Bull Terrier or the American Staffordshire Terrier? 5,570 results come up for that query. Again, you cannot find one single citation, source or reference to a text from the 1940s that confirms this assertion. A google timeline search for "America's Nanny Dog" shows the earliest online publication date is September 25, 2007 as an opinion piece in the online publication, Times-Standard entitled "America's Nanny Dog" by Tyla Hafstrom. It is a complete fabrication and an utter lie.
Go ahead and prove me wrong, not with a single primary source, but with a preponderance of evidence that demonstrates the incredible existence of the baby loving fighting dog that was so beloved and so popular in times gone by that it was commonly called the nanny dog.
This, by the way, doesn't count.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rX_oqLqwCKQ/TFzDbh_pdaI/AAAAAAAAACE/kRCgfZbJbh0/s400/1935PeteyNannyDog.jpeg)
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No, the retard statement is pretty accurate. I work with the group that rescued all the vick dogs. Pits are amazing animals, and when raised by normal people, are normal dogs.
before the 80's, they were never involved in attacks. Since the explosion of rap culture, influx of immigration, and glamorization of thug life, the dogs have been abused, exploited, and their PR has been ruined. but this is a cyclical process, and it has happened before with numerous other breeds, like the blood hound, the german shep, dobermans, rotts...whatever the fad dog is that retards have, they turn into monsters.
here comes "e-kul" to call me a "pidiot," and talk about what horrific creatures they are.
Every Pit i've encountered has been super friendly and loving. Of course, they have decent owners that raised them well.
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Also this year, the NANNY DOG has killed well over 20 people, the majority of them Children, just the other day a NANNY DOG killed a 2 year old. it might be time for Pitbull Lovers to check the credentials of their babysitter, as it regularly maims, mauls and kills children.
http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/2-year-old-Topeka-girl-dies-after-pit-bull-attack/2Mw7_uEBCUKNayGAWgNKsA.cspx (http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/2-year-old-Topeka-girl-dies-after-pit-bull-attack/2Mw7_uEBCUKNayGAWgNKsA.cspx)
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Also this year, the NANNY DOG has killed well over 20 people, the majority of them Children, just the other day a NANNY DOG killed a 2 year old. it might be time for Pitbull Lovers to check the credentials of their babysitter, as it regularly maims, mauls and kills children.
http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/2-year-old-Topeka-girl-dies-after-pit-bull-attack/2Mw7_uEBCUKNayGAWgNKsA.cspx (http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/2-year-old-Topeka-girl-dies-after-pit-bull-attack/2Mw7_uEBCUKNayGAWgNKsA.cspx)
Oh nooeeesss, not a whopping 20 people in a whole year!
No one gives a shit about your witch hunts dude. If you got bit by a Pomeranian you'd be crying for them to be banned, you are a whiny pussy.
Reach between your legs, grab your nuts, realize your a man, and stop being such a bitch.
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i have a 2 year old blue eyed gray pitbull here is a pic of BRUCE (ALL MIGHTY) as a puppy
Good Lord Almighty that is a cute, blue-eyed, snuggly-wuggly puppy.
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Every Pit i've encountered has been super friendly and loving. Of course, they have decent owners that raised them well.
Pitbulls have always been involved in attacks, as far back as 1909, famous pit bull breeder, John P. Colby's Fighting Pit Bull brutally killed his 2 year old nephew. This was hardly deterrent to John, as he continued breeding Pitbulls until the day he died. Family members being killed by a Pitbull is only a small hump in the road for a dedicated Pit Nutter.
Also the way you raise a Pitbull has little to no effect on it's temperament, this is a myth spread by those who don't know any better. Studies on wolves (wolves and dogs are almost genetically identical - all dogs are actually a sub species of the wolf) Their was a study done on wolves comparing nature vs. nurture that demonstrated no amount of love or nurturing of wolf pups affected its inevitable temperament and nature. You can't love the WILD out of the WOLF, in other words raising a wolf pup with love and nurturing does not see any improvements in the wolves’ temperament or genetic inheritance. WOLVES STILL REMAIN WILD REGARDLESS IF THE WOLVES WERE RAISED WITH HUMANS WITH LOVE AND NURTURING OR REARED IN NATURE WITH THEIR PARENTS. After two moths of being nurtured from pups they had to relese the wolves back into the wild as they were to wild to keep in a domestic setting.
Another study that is relevant was one using foxes, they were able to almost domestic foxes by selecting the least aggressive foxes from each litter and mating it with the least aggressive foxes from other litters. They also mated the most aggressive foxes from each litter with the most aggressive foxes from other litters. Within a few generations the researchers were able to create an almost domestic fox by interbreeding the least aggressive foxes together. And as you can imagine, after a few generations they also produced a very savage fox by breeding the most aggressive breeds together.
These two studies for me, are relevant to the current problem, Pitbulls were initially bred to be aggressive, and they were, very aggressive, DOGMEN understood it was in the genes and couldn't be trained out of them (just like in the WOLF study), but then the mainstream got hold of the breed, and have been trying to breed the game out of the dog all the while others are trying to breed it back in or retain it. And this is what makes the situation so dangerous, no one can tell any longer which dog carries the GAME gene and which one doesn't. It also explains why so many Owners claim their Pitbull is GENTLE, it's because there Pitbull is GENTLE, NOT because the Owner has somehow loved the game out of them, their Pitbull is one of the breeders successful attempts at breeding the game out of the breed. (In other words, a DUD pitbull).
This also explains why so many well cared for family Pitbulls suddenly snap and maim, maul and kill. Pointers point, Beagles bugle, Heelers round up cattle, greyhounds run fast and Pitbulls MAUL. These breeds don't need to be taught that, they do it wheter or not you train them too, as it's in their genetic coding. A Pitbulls genetics is what determines it's behaviour, and not the SUPER NURTURING abilities of a Pitbull Nutter.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/207991_359567430790230_1736672289_n.jpg)
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Pitbulls killed by blah blah blah blah blah
Don't give a shit dude, don't care to read about your pointless rants on things that scare you.
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Oh nooeeesss, not a whopping 20 people in a whole year!
No one gives a shit about your witch hunts dude. If you got bit by a Pomeranian you'd be crying for them to be banned, you are a whiny pussy.
Reach between your legs, grab your nuts, realize your a man, and stop being such a bitch.
Your naivety knows no limits, like most people I have been bitten by a normal dog, no sweat, unlike the attack by two Pitbulls that left me with a severed achilles tendon and was unable to WALK for six months and left me permanently injured. As a MAN, I can say I have taken on TWO PITBULLS and survived, and as of yet, I am yet to find a man willing to replicate the feat. I credit my strong constitution, health and fitness for surviving the attack. It comes as no surprise to me your views, Pitbulls attract the deeply insecure, simple minded and fearful individuals, they look for qualities in their pet that they themselves could never posses.
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Quote from the recent study Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011
Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks. If the risk of fatal attack is normalized to Labrador Retrievers and Labrador-mix breeds (the most common registered dog in the United States), the relative risk of death related to pit bull attacks is more than 2500 times higher.
In one 85-day period from July to September 2008, pit bulls were involved in 127 dog attacks, 57% of which occurred off the owner’s property. In these attacks, 158 people were injured, 63% of them severely; 10% of the victims suffered severed body parts; and 6 victims were killed. 12 In the same period, 128 dangerous pit bulls had to be shot to death by police officers or citizens. A closer look at these figures indicates that 1 person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days, a person loses a body part to a pit bull attack every 5.4 days, 2 persons are injured by pit bulls each day, and 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death each day.
Dog bites are a serious public health concern in the United States and across the world. They result in substantial emotional and physical trauma and in a substantial economic cost to the victims and to society. Fortunately, fatal dog attacks are rare, but there seems to be a distinct relationship between the severity and lethality of an attack and the breed of dog responsible. The unacceptable actuarial risk associated with certain breeds of dogs (specifically, pit bulls) must be addressed. These breeds should be regulated in the same way in which other dangerous species, such as leopards.
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Sounds like a wonderful pet if your a sociopathic redneck arsehole!
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Your naivety knows no limits, like most people I have been bitten by a normal dog, no sweat, unlike the attack by two Pitbulls that left me with a severed achilles tendon and was unable to WALK for six months and left me permanently injured. As a MAN, I can say I have taken on TWO PITBULLS and survived, and as of yet, I am yet to find a man willing to replicate the feat. I credit my strong constitution, health and fitness for surviving the attack. It comes as no surprise to me your views, Pitbulls attract the deeply insecure, simple minded and fearful individuals, they look for qualities in their pet that they themselves could never posses.
Don't own and have never owned a Pitbull. Unlike you, I'm not scared shitless of everything that has the potential to kill me.
And you are still a bitch, constantly whining and crying about every little thing that you want banned because it's scary or you got hurt by it. Grow the fuck up and quit crying.
Strong constitution my ass, your're a fucking crybaby.
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Don't own and have never owned a Pitbull. Unlike you, I'm not scared shitless of everything that has the potential to kill me.
And you are still a bitch, constantly whining and crying about every little thing that you want banned because it's scary or you got hurt by it. Grow the fuck up and quit crying.
Strong constitution my ass, your're a fucking crybaby.
HA HA, Your insecurity is really starting to show it's head now. Stop bitching and crying because you can't stand other peoples opinion and have anything you want. You remind me of a little whiny spoilt bitch who spits the dummy every-time you don't get what you want or hear what you want to hear!
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If I had a pit bull, I would call him Time Westcock.
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HA HA, Your insecurity is really starting to show it's head now. Stop bitching and crying because you can't stand other peoples opinion and have anything you want. You remind me of a little whiny spoilt bitch who spits the dummy every-time you don't get what you want or hear what you want to hear!
Lol at you thinking that not caring about your childish rants somehow makes me insecure. Brutal logic fail.
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gorgeous, do they still cut the ears like that? Last dog I had was a German mini schnauzer which my wife brought with her in our marriage - she had her ears like that as well, if I had to choose between an american bulldog or staffy or what ever and or a Schnauzer it would be hard, Schnauzers are such awesome strong minded dogs and so much fun to have around, we had to sadly put her asleep she got cancer, the only good thing was that we did not have to bring her to the doctor, her mother is a nurse so she brought the meds home we all were around here (at that stage she couldn't get up anymore) she got cuddled and her mom gave her the injection, she just yellped and tried to get up but than drifted away.
Best dog there is, no question
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You've almost surpassed garebear as the biggest dumb fuck on this forum... Keep it up... ::)
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you are a whiny pussy.
He posted in some thread recently saying how he got beat as a child. Wonder if that has something to do with it?
???
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Lol at you thinking that not caring about your childish rants somehow makes me insecure. Brutal logic fail.
People who don't care, don't comment and don't resort to feeble attempts at emasculation. You have your point of view, and I have mine, I like to destroy unreasonable arguments with truth and reason as a counter to dangerous propaganda, you on the other hand, like most people with views and ideologies that negatively impact on civilised communities, gather with like minded people and rather than use persuasive arguments to win people over, you resort to insults, abuse and ridicule in a vain attempt to dissuade others from opposing your view, the sad part is, even if you succeed in putting people off, you can't destroy the facts or the ideas they were espousing.
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Ekulo still overly concerned with what freedoms Americans have while he lives in a mud hut in the outback hiding from dogs.
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Ekulo still overly concerned with what freedoms Americans have while he lives in a mud hut in the outback hiding from dogs.
all while not acknowledging that dogs are a product of their environment. there's a reason that over 90% of dog attacks happen in impoverished areas.
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i have a 10 month old english staff for trial now, cutest bugger ever. 90% chans im going to keep it
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i have a 10 month old english staff for trial now, cutest bugger ever. 90% chans im going to keep it
this statement is indicative of the wrong type of person being attracted to a pit. Why a "90% chance??" Why would anyone get a dog if they didn't plan on keeping it? Sounds like dark skin thinking to me.
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People who don't care, don't comment and don't resort to feeble attempts at emasculation. You have your point of view, and I have mine, I like to destroy unreasonable arguments with truth and reason as a counter to dangerous propaganda, you on the other hand, like most people with views and ideologies that negatively impact on civilised communities, gather with like minded people and rather than use persuasive arguments to win people over, you resort to insults, abuse and ridicule in a vain attempt to dissuade others from opposing your view, the sad part is, even if you succeed in putting people off, you can't destroy the facts or the ideas they were espousing.
No, I just don't respect you enough to waste my time actually arguing with you since everything you do is based on fear and emotion.
You're like that kid that gets burned so he never goes near heat again and won't stfu to everyone about how dangerous it is, or the kid that has a bad experience in the pool so he'll never go near the pool again and constantly tells all his friends how bad pools are.
After a while you get so sick of hearing the same tired fear mongering horseshit that you simply start telling them to kindly fuck off.
I don't think it's my place to dictate how other people should live their lives because I don't agree with one of their hobbies or I'm scared of something they own. Clearly you do.
It's fine you're scared of everything that casts a shadow, I don't give a shit.
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this statement is indicative of the wrong type of person being attracted to a pit. Why a "90% chance??" Why would anyone get a dog if they didn't plan on keeping it? Sounds like dark skin thinking to me.
im having her for 2 days to see how she is then she is going back to the owners until i decide, she came 30 minutes ago, i havent barely met her....but i know what you mean. this is not my first staff and the attract the wrong people
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No, I just don't respect you enough to waste my time
Should have stopped there. ;D
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I would keep them away from children
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I would keep them away from children
I feel the same about you. :-\
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I am NOT in to Children.
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I am NOT in to Children.
Who knows, who knows
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They called them nanny dogs, since they were best suited to look after kids, dog aggressive NOT human aggressive plain and simple, don't believe me? See pictures below, not all are from the victorian age but they prove a point that bull terriers, pitbulls or what ever you want to call these dogs have no natural tendency to harm humans.
We don't need more guns in school but maybe a few of these dogs,lets see what happens if a well trained bully charges a potential shooter - Get some monster pitbulls from the http://www.bossykennels.com/ and give each security guy one, make him a school pet a mascot.
LOL!
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No, I just don't respect you enough to waste my time actually arguing with you since everything you do is based on fear and emotion.
You're like that kid that gets burned so he never goes near heat again and won't stfu to everyone about how dangerous it is, or the kid that has a bad experience in the pool so he'll never go near the pool again and constantly tells all his friends how bad pools are.
After a while you get so sick of hearing the same tired fear mongering horseshit that you simply start telling them to kindly fuck off.
I don't think it's my place to dictate how other people should live their lives because I don't agree with one of their hobbies or I'm scared of something they own. Clearly you do.
It's fine you're scared of everything that casts a shadow, I don't give a shit.
I can tell your an insecure man, always casting aspersions that I am somehow afraid of everything, I have lived a full life and taken many risks, I don't live in FEAR, and I take reasonable steps to protect myself. But when you actually experience a life or death situation, yes, you feel fear whether you like it or not, that is part of the self preservation programming built into every human being. Now when someone experiences such an event, they ask themselves, was it avoidable? why did it happen? Is it possible to prevent such unnecessary suffering? What can I do to protect myself from it happening again? Does this happen to other people? etc. etc. Now, if anyone researches the issue, and learn the history of fighting breeds of dog, and especially Pitbulls, they learn they are a game dog, a dog that is bred to be incredibly powerful, have a relentless attack style, an ability to hide attack warnings, and an imperviousness to pain that other breeds just don't have. They also have a history of being unpredictable (or snapping if you like), they were never bred to be a housepet, and even DOGMEN (Dog Fighters) were never stupid enough to keep them as housepets. Now, the majority of attacks are on small children, and they regularly cause injuries that surgeons compare to lion or shark attack, the victims often incur losses in the tens of thousands of dollars, sometimes hundreds of thousands, they are almost always maimed and permanently injured. Studies show that the type of people attracted to dangerous breeds are more disagreeable than other people, they are often confrontational, irresponsible and anti social, and are also more likely to have a criminal history. Personally, I lost my business and a lot of money as a result of the attack, and it only makes sense that I would advocate for stricter regulations and not want to endure such a difficult recovery process again. It actually has nothing to do with fear that motivates me, being severely inured and having to learn to walk again and overcome the myriad of complications and losses is incredibly difficult, it is painful, it is expensive and most of all it is unnecessary, who wouldn't want to avoid such a scenario.
Pets are supposed to be companion animals, and not something that will unpredictably attack and potentially kill another human being, if you are attracted to animals that regularly maim, maul and kill other people and animals, it is a reflection of your undeveloped and poor character, it exposes you for the limited human being you are, and the fact you feel a need to denigrate the victims of pitbull attack (mostly children) highlights what a deviant human being you are. Anyway, by your attitude, I suspect you are a teenager and have never really experienced much suffering and lived a reasonably sheltered life. Good Luck traversing through your life being an arrogant, ignorant arsehole. Meanwhile, I will continue advocating for the right for children to grow up without risking being violently and brutally murdered by a pitbull or at the end of Gun barrel.
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Stark, didn't you say you wanted to drown my pitbull puppy when I posted a picture of her? lol
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=410733.msg5879781#msg5879781
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=410733.msg5879781#msg5879781)
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I am pretty sure that not all staffys were actual staffys these dogs have been bread and mixed for a long time - I am not saying all of these dogs are save with kids, its just sad how overly hyped the genearl population gets when they see something that looks like a pitbul, changing sides of the street, picking up kids, taking their own dog on a leash (that last one might be a good idea lol)..
One time my brother came over to ours, with this ugly monster of a dog on the end of a big chain lead. I asked him what the fuck it was, he replies non-chalantly, "Not too sure, just picked him up - I think he's half Mastiff, half Rotweiller" I replied "Well you better fuck off then and come back without it so you can see your nephew today" oh brother.
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I can tell your blah blah blah blah
TL:DR:DCA
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Who knows, who knows
are you?
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Don't own and have never owned a Pitbull. Unlike you, I'm not scared shitless of everything that has the potential to kill me.
...
I agree with E-Kul. The point is not what YOU are afraid of. You can make your own choices and good luck to you. The point is that these dogs attack random people, many of them children, who never had a choice in the matter. They are killed or severly injured, because idiots decided they wanted a show-off scary dog.
Why on earth need anybody have a deadly pet such as the Pitbull? It always comes as a total surprise to the owner when their lovely pet, the Pitbull kills a child.
People like you, Shockwave, are the real cause of Pitbull attacks. Macho idiots who thinks the world spins around your fragile egos.
NN
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People like you, Shockwave, are the real cause of Pitbull attacks. Macho idiots who thinks the world spins around your fragile egos.
NN
Eh? Im the cause of Pitbull attacks? Brutal logic.
Again, it's not my place to tell people what they can and can't own for pets.
That said, I would expect the people that own these animals to be responsible for them and raise them properly.
Hell, I know people that raise Cougars. Who am I to tell them that they cannot raise those animals if they know how to do it responsibly? Moreover, who are YOU to tell them that they can't raise those animals?
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I agree with E-Kul. The point is not what YOU are afraid of. You can make your own choices and good luck to you. The point is that these dogs attack random people, many of them children, who never had a choice in the matter. They are killed or severly injured, because idiots decided they wanted a show-off scary dog.
Why on earth need anybody have a deadly pet such as the Pitbull? It always comes as a total surprise to the owner when their lovely pet, the Pitbull kills a child.
People like you, Shockwave, are the real cause of Pitbull attacks. Macho idiots who thinks the world spins around your fragile egos.
NN
Sounds like Ekulo has a new butt-buddy.
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Eh? Im the cause of Pitbull attacks? Brutal logic.
Again, it's not my place to tell people what they can and can't own for pets.
That said, I would expect the people that own these animals to be responsible for them and raise them properly.
Hell, I know people that raise Cougars. Who am I to tell them that they cannot raise those animals if they know how to do it responsibly? Moreover, who are YOU to tell them that they can't raise those animals?
A deadly dog is like a loaded gun with its own will and fast and strong legs to help it carry out that will. If you keep the dog at home, locked up and away from kids, it's your own business. If you expose others, that is another matter.
NN
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Sounds like Ekulo has a new butt-buddy.
E-Kul has his personal experience to motivate him. I have never been bitten or threatened by a Pitbull or one of the other bullterrier types.
What I fail to understand, is why people want a dog with a relative risk of 2500x that of a Labrador for killing or seriously hurting someone. Why not get a breed that is less risky?
NN
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What I fail to understand, is why people want a dog with a relative risk of 2500x that of a Labrador for killing or seriously hurting someone. Why not get a breed that is less risky?
NN
allowing for stereotyping but have a look at the personalities of some of the owners. If pitbull terriers became girly accessories how quickly would they go out of fashion with the macho mongrels ?
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Eh? Im the cause of Pitbull attacks? Brutal logic.
Again, it's not my place to tell people what they can and can't own for pets.
That said, I would expect the people that own these animals to be responsible for them and raise them properly.
Hell, I know people that raise Cougars. Who am I to tell them that they cannot raise those animals if they know how to do it responsibly? Moreover, who are YOU to tell them that they can't raise those animals?
i think a 200 pound cat is more dangerous than a 35-100 pound dog...Afterall, it's a cat! They do what they want, when they want.
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i think a 200 pound cat is more dangerous than a 35-100 pound dog...Afterall, it's a cat! They do what they want, when they want.
Hehe, I have a dog now, but always had cats when I grew up. They are vicious creatures- I never forgot how those cats played with their prey. They would bite birds they caught just a little in the wing, let it loose, watch it struggle trying to fly, catching it again and biting it a bit more before releasing it once more, until the final bite, breaking the neck of the bird. I dare not think what my house cats would be like if they weighed 200 pound :o
NN
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Beautiful dogs. Problem is too many retards own them >:(
Yes this is the truth. It makes me angry when a dog attacks and they talk about what will be done to the DOG... it should be what will be done to the dick-head owner.
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Beautiful dogs. Problem is too many retards own them >:(
http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20130405/US-Pet-Pig-Attacked/
Deputies: Ga. man stabbed, unleashed dogs on pig
SPRINGFIELD, Ga. (AP) — A Georgia man unleashed his two pit bulls on a neighbor's pet pig that got loose in a mobile home park, then stabbed the animal 23 times in front of children and other onlookers, authorities said.
The pig — named Oliver — survived and was in critical condition at a veterinarian's office Friday, said Effingham County Sheriff's Office spokesman David Ehsanipoor. He added that Oliver had been stabbed mostly in his neck and hind parts.
The owner of the dogs, 23-year-old Benjamin Fullwood, was charged Wednesday with felony cruelty to animals, criminal trespass and obstruction of a law enforcement officer, Ehsanipoor said. The man's bond was set at $25,000, and a judge ordered him to have no contact with domestic animals, Ehsanipoor said. It was unclear Friday if Fullwood had an attorney.
Oliver got out of its owners' yard Wednesday afternoon and wandered into a mobile home park in Springfield, Ehsanipoor said. Residents of the park were trying to get in touch with the animal's owner, when Fullwood unleashed his two pit bulls on the pig and then began stabbing him in front of a group of people, including children, Ehsanipoor said.
"This was an unprovoked attack. The pig was posing no threat to anybody," Ehsanipoor said. "It was just brutal."
Fullwood initially lied to deputies, saying he was punching the pig, Ehsanipoor said. But witness accounts, as well as the nature of the pig's wounds, led deputies to determine the pig had been stabbed, he said. Oliver was expected to make a full recovery.
Fullwood was also arrested in 2011 on animal cruelty charges for allegedly leaving cats and dogs in unsanitary cages for days without food or water, Ehsanipoor said.
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Reviving this old thread, I always laugh when I hear the words Pitbull and nanny Dog (Nutters actually take this piece of propaganda seriously). You would either have to be a genuine imbecile or just your run of the mill sadist to think that a breed of dog that regularly maims, mauls and kills children is a Nanny Dog. Already this year there has been 7 dog related fatalities, all inflicted by Pitbulls. 5 of the victims were children. Also, ironically among the victims was a 'Nanny' killed by a Pitbull and a Nannies pitbull killed a child, so I suppose in that sense they could be considered nanny Dogs.
The term Nanny Dog is propaganda and started by two Pitbull Nutters, there is actually zero evidence for the claim prior to Two Pitbull Nutters completely making up the term in the 70's to improve the image of the animal's child killer status. If you want a thorough dissemination of this myth you can visit this link here http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html (http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html)
As for some reality about the breed, their was a recent study called "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011" these were some of their conclusions --->
"Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks. If the risk of fatal attack is normalized to Labrador Retrievers and Labrador-mix breeds (the most common registered dog in the United States), the relative risk of death related to pit bull attacks is more than 2500 times higher.
In one 85-day period from July to September 2008, pit bulls were involved in 127 dog attacks, 57% of which occurred off the owner’s property. In these attacks, 158 people were injured, 63% of them severely; 10% of the victims suffered severed body parts; and 6 victims were killed. 12 In the same period, 128 dangerous pit bulls had to be shot to death by police officers or citizens. A closer look at these figures indicates that 1 person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days, a person loses a body part to a pit bull attack every 5.4 days, 2 persons are injured by pit bulls each day, and 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death each day."
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Sounds like the perfect dog for your average narcissitic sociopath looking to bolster a deficient ego & personality and fulfil there passive aggressive desire to piss of the community they live in. There is a good reason why this dog is the favourite breed of choice for drug dealers, gangbangers and scumbags.
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Reviving this old thread, I always laugh when I hear the words Pitbull and nanny Dog (Nutters actually take this piece of propaganda seriously). You would either have to be a genuine imbecile or just your run of the mill sadist to think that a breed of dog that regularly maims, mauls and kills children is a Nanny Dog. Already this year there has been 7 dog related fatalities, all inflicted by Pitbulls. 5 of the victims were children. Also, ironically among the victims was a 'Nanny' killed by a Pitbull and a Nannies pitbull killed a child, so I suppose in that sense they could be considered nanny Dogs.
The term Nanny Dog is propaganda and started by two Pitbull Nutters, there is actually zero evidence for the claim prior to Two Pitbull Nutters completely making up the term in the 70's to improve the image of the animal's child killer status. If you want a thorough dissemination of this myth you can visit this link here http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html (http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html)
As for some reality about the breed, their was a recent study called "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011" these were some of their conclusions --->
"Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks. If the risk of fatal attack is normalized to Labrador Retrievers and Labrador-mix breeds (the most common registered dog in the United States), the relative risk of death related to pit bull attacks is more than 2500 times higher.
In one 85-day period from July to September 2008, pit bulls were involved in 127 dog attacks, 57% of which occurred off the owner’s property. In these attacks, 158 people were injured, 63% of them severely; 10% of the victims suffered severed body parts; and 6 victims were killed. 12 In the same period, 128 dangerous pit bulls had to be shot to death by police officers or citizens. A closer look at these figures indicates that 1 person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days, a person loses a body part to a pit bull attack every 5.4 days, 2 persons are injured by pit bulls each day, and 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death each day."
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Sounds like the perfect dog for your average narcissitic sociopath looking to bolster a deficient ego & personality and fulfil there passive aggressive desire to piss of the community they live in. There is a good reason why this dog is the favourite breed of choice for drug dealers, gangbangers and scumbags.
Cliffs notes please, I don't have all night to read this dissertation.
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:o
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:D
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:D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=452095.0;attach=512639;image)
Speaking of raccoons, I trapped one the other day, and that SOB was ready to go toe to toe with me. He was literally fearless. Hissing, snarling, biting, growling, grabbing, etc. Raccoons are not to be trifled with. :D
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=452095.0;attach=512639;image)
Speaking of raccoons, I trapped one the other day, and that SOB was ready to go toe to toe with me. He was literally fearless. Hissing, snarling, biting, growling, grabbing, etc. Raccoons are not to be trifled with. :D
HA HA, Well according to the Pitbull Nutters you should be able to own any animal you like, why do other people have the right to tell you what you can do? In their world drink driving laws disgust them, they believe they should be able to speed down free-ways at hundreds of kilometres an hour, they believe they should be unlimited in their freedoms. It's hard to deal with people with such a mindset, who put the overt selfishness over the needs of there communities. But I deal with them all the time. If someone can't work out why restrictions are needed under the current paradigm, then you are looking at a difficult personality. Blaming the owner sounds great, but it is a breed issue, pure and simple.
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HA HA, Well according to the Pitbull Nutters you should be able to own any animal you like, why do other people have the right to tell you what you can do? In their world drink driving laws disgust them, they believe they should be able to speed down free-ways at hundreds of kilometres an hour, they believe they should be unlimited in their freedoms. It's hard to deal with people with such a mindset, who put the overt selfishness over the needs of there communities. But I deal with them all the time. If someone can't work out why restrictions are needed under the current paradigm, then you are looking at a difficult personality. Blaming the owner sounds great, but it is a breed issue, pure and simple.
He was incredibly unhappy. I relocated him about 5 miles away. When I turned him loose, it sounded like somebody threw a bowling ball into the woods. He was hauling ass, and paving a new path for about 100 yards. Cool critters, cute, just very destructive. Kinda like pitbulls. :D
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He was incredibly unhappy. I relocated him about 5 miles away. When I turned him loose, it sounded like somebody threw a bowling ball into the woods. He was hauling ass, and paving a new path for about 100 yards. Cool critters, cute, just very destructive. Kinda like pitbulls. :D
In Australia we have possums everywhere, and they are cute and cuddly, and some people make the mistake of feeding them, because they then move into your roof and wall cavities, and being nocturnal they keep you awake at night. But the fuckers are lethal, you don't want to handle one, they have claws from hell and a quite strong little fuckers. Possums are often attacked by dogs, and dog lovers put pressure on councils to control possum populations. Wildlife doesn't stand a chance wherever humans live.
(http://www.jennifermarohasy.com//archives/possums%20blog.jpg)
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(http://a0.img.mobypicture.com/c8e54279006987d16bb658d0d5b1131a_view.jpg)
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(http://a0.img.mobypicture.com/c8e54279006987d16bb658d0d5b1131a_view.jpg)
Shotgun? :D
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We had a Staffy, wonderful character.
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bought a staffy to my 4 year old daughter 2 months ago, want to pet it e kul? :D
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disgusting pics :-[
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bought a staffy to my 4 year old daughter 2 months ago, want to pet it e kul? :D
It's one thing for an individual to take the risk, but to expose children to the risk is sociopathic. So far this year in America, there have been 9 dog bite related fatalities, all of them by pitbulls. the majority of these victims were children. Your child may well survive your inability to parent, but to expose a child to such risk lessens the child's chances dramatically. That type of decision making exposes you for the type of parent you are. One can only imagine what other forms of neglect or risk such a parent exposes their child too. Every few weeks some insecure Pitbull/staffy owner gets their smug retarded smile wiped from their face when their precious pibbles de-scalps or kills their child. Pitbulls are six times more likely to attack their owner (and this stat actually comes from a Pit Biased study), can you imagine the type of personality or low intellect that would deliberately expose themselves and their family to such risk. Considering that a citizen has a 2500 times greater chance of being killed by a Pitbull than by a Labrador Retriever, the ridiculousness of a Pitbull owner is something to be pondered for the ages.
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HA HA, Well according to the Pitbull Nutters you should be able to own any animal you like, why do other people have the right to tell you what you can do? In their world drink driving laws disgust them, they believe they should be able to speed down free-ways at hundreds of kilometres an hour, they believe they should be unlimited in their freedoms. It's hard to deal with people with such a mindset, who put the overt selfishness over the needs of there communities. But I deal with them all the time. If someone can't work out why restrictions are needed under the current paradigm, then you are looking at a difficult personality. Blaming the owner sounds great, but it is a breed issue, pure and simple.
Everyone who doesn't share your point of you is some sort of nutter. I believe it would be logical to conclude that actually it is you who is a nutcase, not everyone else.
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Everyone who doesn't share your point of you is some sort of nutter. I believe it would be logical to conclude that actually it is you who is a nutcase, not everyone else.
No, people who own Pitbulls are Nutters. People who think it is appropriate to own fighting breed of dog in a civilised community are Nutters. People who hold a point of view that when held collectively causes other people to be maimed, mauled and killed are Nutters. The only time I take exception to someone else's point of view is when it results in me being mauled and maimed. The only time I use the term Nutter is when talking about Pitbull Owners, it is a common term used for these Pitbull owners or apologists by pretty much all BSL advocates. I don't apologise for it, people are regularly being maimed, mauled and killed, all this could have been stopped a long time ago if it was not for the Nutters who have aggressively opposed any changes that could see an end to this unnecessary violence. I have been a BSL and breed ban advocate for years, because I have had the misfortune of having met real life genuine Pitbull Nutters and their sociopathic excuse for a companion animals. You want to hold dangerous, sociopathic points of view, fine, but don't expect me to be happy about it when I am the one who has to pay the price for it.
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No way Ekul acts like this in real life.
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No way Ekul acts like this in real life.
You are right. I do tend to tone it down a bit for Getbig.
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You are right. I do tend to tone it down a bit for Getbig.
I think you are fat pansy girl in real life who only pick on "bullies" who are smaller and weaker then you.
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I agree with E-Kul. There is no point of having animals that dangerous. People who think they are in control are just naive. It's 100% up to the dog what's going to happen in any given situation. Who the fuck would accept a dog to make the call if you live or going down.
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It's one thing for an individual to take the risk, but to expose children to the risk is sociopathic. So far this year in America, there have been 9 dog bite related fatalities, all of them by pitbulls. the majority of these victims were children. Your child may well survive your inability to parent, but to expose a child to such risk lessens the child's chances dramatically. That type of decision making exposes you for the type of parent you are. One can only imagine what other forms of neglect or risk such a parent exposes their child too. Every few weeks some insecure Pitbull/staffy owner gets their smug retarded smile wiped from their face when their precious pibbles de-scalps or kills their child. Pitbulls are six times more likely to attack their owner (and this stat actually comes from a Pit Biased study), can you imagine the type of personality or low intellect that would deliberately expose themselves and their family to such risk. Considering that a citizen has a 2500 times greater chance of being killed by a Pitbull than by a Labrador Retriever, the ridiculousness of a Pitbull owner is something to be pondered for the ages.
so thats a no? :D
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I think you are fat pansy girl in real life who only pick on "bullies" who are smaller and weaker then you.
Me too. Guaranteed if he acted like that in real life he'd spend alot of time holding his bloody nose and fat lip.
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I think you are fat pansy girl in real life who only pick on "bullies" who are smaller and weaker then you.
Me too. Guaranteed if he acted like that in real life he'd spend alot of time holding his bloody nose and fat lip.
Well, I am no different on here than I am in real life, and no I don't spend any time nursing injuries. I have had to occasionally deal with bullies, but I am quite skilled in dealing with them and usually find a way to teach them a lesson. The last bully who messed with me ended up with a broken arm in three places, and I had not a mark or a scratch on me. I still smile about it. It cost me $500, but it was the best money I ever spent.
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so thats a no? :D
Yeah, that's a 'NO'. I was never a big dog fan even before I was attacked, I am a cat person. I have spent time with staffies and pitbulls, when I was a teenager my best friend owned a staffy, he literally would make love to that dog, he slept with it, took it everywhere, trained it to not except food from anybody else, went to his Staffordshire club meetings every month, completely obsessed. Sure enough, his staffy did attack his younger brother, he was right there and able to stop it before it got out of hand and his brother only suffered minor injuries. But he did the usual Pitbull Nutter routine, and just simply blamed his brother. I myself even owned a pure breed Pitbull as a teenager, I know first hand how unstable this breed can be. I was raised my whole life with normal breeds of dog, it was actually owning a Pitbull that put me of dogs all together. It saddens me what humanity has done to domesticated dogs, Pitbulls and other fighting breeds are a physical manifestation of the warped mind of humanity.
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e-kul,
Please list your sources.
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e-kul sounds like a very cringe inducing loser in real life. I feel sorry for him reading all this shit. He's getting so worked up. What a pussy. :-\
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(http://i47.tinypic.com/2ur8f4n.jpg)
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I agree with E-Kul. There is no point of having animals that dangerous. People who think they are in control are just naive. It's 100% up to the dog what's going to happen in any given situation. Who the fuck would accept a dog to make the call if you live or going down.
It's not a lion, it's a 50lb dog.
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Well, I am no different on here than I am in real life, and no I don't spend any time nursing injuries. I have had to occasionally deal with bullies, but I am quite skilled in dealing with them and usually find a way to teach them a lesson. The last bully who messed with me ended up with a broken arm in three places, and I had not a mark or a scratch on me. I still smile about it. It cost me $500, but it was the best money I ever spent.
lol bullshit ;D
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E-kul is fond of using this study "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011"
A paper written by surgeons not animal behaviorists or ethologists.
The authors of the E-kul study?
"non-animal experts Bini (MD), Cohn (MD), Acosta (RN, BSN), McFarland (RN, MS), Muir (MD), and Michalek (PhD)"
This paper was rebutted in the same journal soundly for it's imprudent use of unreliable dog bite tabulations and unpublished sources.
http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/Citation/2012/05000/Imprudent_use_of_Unreliable_Dog_Bite_Tabulations.38.aspx (http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/Citation/2012/05000/Imprudent_use_of_Unreliable_Dog_Bite_Tabulations.38.aspx)
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E-kul is fond of using this study "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011"
A paper written by surgeons not animal behaviorists or ethologists.
The authors of the E-kul study?
"non-animal experts Bini (MD), Cohn (MD), Acosta (RN, BSN), McFarland (RN, MS), Muir (MD), and Michalek (PhD)"
This paper was rebutted in the same journal soundly for it's imprudent use of unreliable dog bite tabulations and unpublished sources.
http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/Citation/2012/05000/Imprudent_use_of_Unreliable_Dog_Bite_Tabulations.38.aspx (http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/Citation/2012/05000/Imprudent_use_of_Unreliable_Dog_Bite_Tabulations.38.aspx)
Doesn't matter, he still needs a good smack in the mug.
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Doesn't matter, he still needs a good smack in the mug.
A slap strong enough to draw tears and induce an existential crisis.
Trust us e-kul, this hurts us more than it hurts you.
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I'd say we scrap some money together and get E-Kul a nice, cute rednose puppy.
And let him feed it, hug it, and love it, and maybe, just maybe his hatred will subside.
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(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1082989/thumbs/o-BABY-AND-BULL-DOG-570.jpg?6)
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E-kul is fond of using this study "Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011"
A paper written by surgeons not animal behaviorists or ethologists.
The authors of the E-kul study?
"non-animal experts Bini (MD), Cohn (MD), Acosta (RN, BSN), McFarland (RN, MS), Muir (MD), and Michalek (PhD)"
This paper was rebutted in the same journal soundly for it's imprudent use of unreliable dog bite tabulations and unpublished sources.
http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/Citation/2012/05000/Imprudent_use_of_Unreliable_Dog_Bite_Tabulations.38.aspx (http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/Citation/2012/05000/Imprudent_use_of_Unreliable_Dog_Bite_Tabulations.38.aspx)
Yeah, rebutted. Do you even know what that means, it means a renowned crazy Pitbull Nutter by the name of Karen Delise wrote them a letter ticking them off. They simply published the letter. In no way was she ever taken seriously and she only further damages the cause with her false claims. Karen is the one guilty of fabricating stories, she has been caught out several times lying about interviews she never did, she deliberately changes reported breed type cited in stories to vilify non-pitbull breeds and she claims that surgeons are lying about the severity of bites and hospital admissions and she openly admits that she has no problem blaming the victim, which she does in almost 100% of Pitbull attack cases. Karen is an unashamed and well renowned Pitbull Nutter whose agenda she doesn't even try and hide. Her agenda is to promote the Pitbull Breed no matter how many innocent children have to be maimed, mauled and killed as a result, hardly a beacon of righteousness or moral goodness.
Anybody who makes a good living from Pitbulls, as Karen does, is hardly considered a trusted source for unbiased information. You have to wonder about the credibility of people who claim it is wrong to vilify a breed of dog, but then go onto vilify dozens of non-pitbull breeds (as Karen regularly does). I think what she means to say, is that it is wrong to vilify the Pitbull, but slandering any other breed is perfectly acceptable. Karen regularly says it is inappropriate to use media reports to verify breed in dog attack incidents, but then does just that when trying to prove other breeds of dog are just as bad as Pitbulls. Apparently, the Authorities can only correctly identify the breed of dog when it is not a Pitbull, this is what she believes. Karen is the closest thing to a crazy person you ill ever encounter.
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Yeah, rebutted. Do you even know what that means, it means a renowned crazy Pitbull Nutter by the name of Karen Delise wrote them a letter ticking them off. They simply published the letter. In no way was she ever taken seriously and she only further damages the cause with her false claims. Karen is the one guilty of fabricating stories, she has been caught out several times lying about interviews she never did, she deliberately changes reported breed type cited in stories to vilify non-pitbull breedsm she claims that surgeons are lying about the severity of bites and hospital admissions and she openly admits that she has no problem blaming the victim, which she does in almost 100% of Pitbull attack cases. Karen is an unashamed and well renowned Pitbull Nutter whose agenda she doesn't even try and hide. Her agenda is to promote the Pitbull Breed no matter how many innocent children have to be maimed, mauled and killed as a result, hardly a beacon of righteousness or moral goodness.
Anybody who makes a good living from Pitbulls, as Karen does, is hardly considered a trusted source for unbiased information. You have to wonder about the credibility of people who claim it is wrong to vilify a breed of dog, but then go onto vilify dozens of non-pitbull breeds (as Karen regularly does). I think what she means to say, is that it is wrong to vilify the Pitbull, but slandering any other breed is perfectly acceptable. Karen regularly says it is inappropriate to use media reports to verify breed in dog attack incidents, but then does just that when trying to prove other breeds of dog are just as bad as Pitbulls. Apparently, the Authorities can only correctly identify the breed of dog when it is not a Pitbull, this is what she believes. Karen is the closest thing to a crazy person you ill ever encounter..
Ad hominem, meet Ad hominem, Straw man argument, and ad hominem.
Is this how Karen Delise writes her books (Free download here):
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit%20Bull%20Placebo.pdf (http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit%20Bull%20Placebo.pdf)
or articulates her position in peer reviewed journals? By attacking the other party of the argument?
Thankfully, no.
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Ad hominem, meet Ad hominem, Straw man argument, and ad hominem.
Is this how Karen Delise writes her books (Free download here):
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit%20Bull%20Placebo.pdf (http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit%20Bull%20Placebo.pdf)
or articulates her position in peer reviewed journals? By attacking the other party of the argument?
Thankfully, no.
Although I disklike Karen Delise, my argument is not ad hominem, her arguments have been challenged before and she has been discredited and considered a biased source of Information with a definitive agenda.
Karen actually wrote a book called “Fatal Dog Attacks”.
She falsely claimed that she collected official reports on Dog Bite Related Fatalties cases. She simply failed to reproduce any of this alleged data in the book – just her alleged conclusions after having collected this data. IF she had the data – why not publish it? Wouldn’t any objective reviewer expect to see a table of the information, such as a listing of the actual number of fatal attacks, the locations (states/counties/cities), the type of dog involved (reported/revised), age of victim, or the cause of death/nature of injury, etc. Some of the attack stories she claimed happened, were unable to be sourced when they were independently investigated. She simply made them up. Ms. Delise’s book appears to be nothing more than a series of subjective conclusions that are impossible to verify in any manner—either through the data allegedly collected, or any objective methodology of logically analysis.
An attorney in Denver caught her out after she claimed to have had requested and obtained copies of reports involving each and every fatal or serious mauling in the 1980’s, this was a a lie. This particular attorney had the only available copies of reports involving a highly reported fatal pit bull attack upon a 3-year old child in Denver in 1986. Ms. Delise – whom is not a credible expert on this topic, but in fact, is a self-serving author who may have falsified her research and who apparently has no proof of the creditability, reliability, or accuracy of her conclusions. The financial source for her hypothesized self-publication could be hidden for a multitude of reasons, including that her financial supporter(s) may have their own hidden political agenda. (it is widely believed that that anti-BSL protesters were being funded by dog-fighting rings.)
This particular attorney concluded that: As a direct result of this apparent knowing or intentional misrepresentation, if not constituting direct fraud, Ms. Delise’s credibility in regards to her alleged work and her conclusions in her books is subject to severe, if not complete, impeachment, otherwise known as “complete discreditation”. Ms. Delise’s book appears to be nothing more than a series of subjective conclusions that are impossible to verify in any manner—either through the data allegedly collected, or any objective methodology of logically analysis. The book simply appears to be a piece of propaganda with a clear political agenda to assist anti-BSL groups by printing all of their subjective opinions and wrap it in a cloak of self-serving objective authority through an unverifiable claim that the author “reviewed” all this data, when I have personal knowledge that she has not reviewed the data of two very high profile fatal maulings in the 1980’s that directly led to one of the most controversial Pit Bull bans in the United States.
Therefore, Ms. Delise’s work is not only highly suspect, but may be considered as being without any credibility, without any academic integrity whatsoever, that the totality of circumstances could justify the fully informed reader to reach the exact opposite conclusions of Ms. Delise, because it may appear to that reader that she is a fraud.
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Ekul i read somewhere that you had a seroius incident with pitbulls but not what happened.can you link or write it here?
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Ekul i read somewhere that you had a seroius incident with pitbulls but not what happened.can you link or write it here?
No, I don't expose my story to Pitbull Advocates, suffice to say, my left leg and arm were badly mauled, tendons severed and I was left unable to walk for a long time. My left leg is now maimed.
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Although I disklike Karen Delise, my argument is not ad hominem, her arguments have been challenged before and she has been discredited and considered a biased source of Information with a definitive agenda.
Karen actually wrote a book called "A Critical Analysis of Karen Delise’s Book “Fatal Dog Attacks”.
She falsely claimed that she collected official reports on Dog Bite Related Fatalties cases. She simply failed to reproduce any of this alleged data in the book – just her alleged conclusions after having collected this data. IF she had the data – why not publish it? Wouldn’t any objective reviewer expect to see a table of the information, such as a listing of the actual number of fatal attacks, the locations (states/counties/cities), the type of dog involved (reported/revised), age of victim, or the cause of death/nature of injury, etc. Some of the attack stories she claimed happened, were unable to be sourced when they were independently investigated. She simply made them up. Ms. Delise’s book appears to be nothing more than a series of subjective conclusions that are impossible to verify in any manner—either through the data allegedly collected, or any objective methodology of logically analysis.
An attorney in Denver caught her out after she claimed to have had requested and obtained copies of reports involving each and every fatal or serious mauling in the 1980’s, this was a a lie. This particular attorney had the only available copies of reports involving a highly reported fatal pit bull attack upon a 3-year old child in Denver in 1986. Ms. Delise – whom is not a credible expert on this topic, but in fact, is a self-serving author who may have falsified her research and who apparently has no proof of the creditability, reliability, or accuracy of her conclusions. The financial source for her hypothesized self-publication could be hidden for a multitude of reasons, including that her financial supporter(s) may have their own hidden political agenda. (it is widely believed that that anti-BSL protesters were being funded by dog-fighting rings.)
This particular attorney concluded that: As a direct result of this apparent knowing or intentional misrepresentation, if not constituting direct fraud, Ms. Delise’s credibility in regards to her alleged work and her conclusions in her books is subject to severe, if not complete, impeachment, otherwise known as “complete discreditation”. Ms. Delise’s book appears to be nothing more than a series of subjective conclusions that are impossible to verify in any manner—either through the data allegedly collected, or any objective methodology of logically analysis. The book simply appears to be a piece of propaganda with a clear political agenda to assist anti-BSL groups by printing all of their subjective opinions and wrap it in a cloak of self-serving objective authority through an unverifiable claim that the author “reviewed” all this data, when I have personal knowledge that she has not reviewed the data of two very high profile fatal maulings in the 1980’s that directly led to one of the most controversial Pit Bull bans in the United States.
Therefore, Ms. Delise’s work is not only highly suspect, but may be considered as being without any credibility, without any academic integrity whatsoever, that the totality of circumstances could justify the fully informed reader to reach the exact opposite conclusions of Ms. Delise, because it may appear to that reader that she is a fraud.
E-kul,
Have you read Ms. Delise's response letter to the non-animal expert surgeons in question?
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No, I don't expose my story to Pitbull Advocates, suffice to say, my left leg and arm were badly mauled, tendons severed and I was left unable to walk for a long time. My left leg is now maimed.
shit ..sorry to hear that
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E-kul, you say:
Karen actually wrote a book called "A Critical Analysis of Karen Delise’s Book “Fatal Dog Attacks”.
So is it your position that she wrote a book that critically analyzed her own book, "Fatal Dog Attacks"? (ISBN #0972191402)
What is the ISBN # of this book you mention where she critically anaylzed her own book?
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An attorney in Denver caught her out after she claimed to have had requested and obtained copies of reports involving each and every fatal or serious mauling in the 1980’s, this was a a lie. This particular attorney had the only available copies of reports involving a highly reported fatal pit bull attack upon a 3-year old child in Denver in 1986. Ms. Delise – whom is not a credible expert on this topic, but in fact, is a self-serving author who may have falsified her research and who apparently has no proof of the creditability, reliability, or accuracy of her conclusions. The financial source for her hypothesized self-publication could be hidden for a multitude of reasons, including that her financial supporter(s) may have their own hidden political agenda. (it is widely believed that that anti-BSL protesters were being funded by dog-fighting rings.)
Ekul, bear with me. Please allow me to get this straight.
You say that Ms. Delise stated (source?) that she "had requested and obtained copies of reports involving each and every fatal or serious mauling in the 1980's" and because she perhaps didn't KNOW OF, or perhaps overlooked ONE out of many, many dog mauling's over the course of 10 years we must now consider her a liar? Then what does that make the surgeons of the study you often quote? But their study where they quote "youtube.com comments" as truth is gospel? Hypocrisy much?
You say:
Ms. Delise – whom is not a credible expert on this topic, but in fact, is a self-serving author who may have falsified her research and who apparently has no proof of the creditability, reliability, or accuracy of her conclusions.
Please elucidate how SHE is not a "credible expert on the topic" but the original "surgeons" of the Texas study are?
I can't help but to see many contradictory and hypocritical tendencies on your part. Pardon the pun, but I don't have a dog in this fight and am only trying to incorporate some fairness on the matter.
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Ekul, bear with me. Please allow me to get this straight.
You say that Ms. Delise stated (source?) that she "had requested and obtained copies of reports involving each and every fatal or serious mauling in the 1980's" and because she perhaps didn't KNOW OF, or perhaps overlooked ONE out of many, many dog mauling's over the course of 10 years we must now consider her a liar?
Yes, because it is disingenuous, it is not a small LIE, she is suggesting that she has been thorough, comprehensive, if she has indeed been caught in a lie, one can then only suppose how many other incidents she has missed (and perhaps deliberately so)
Then what does that make the surgeons of the study you often quote? But their study where they quote "youtube.com comments" as truth is gospel? Hypocrisy much?
Please highlight where in the study they use YOUTUBE comments as TRUTH?
You say:
Please elucidate how SHE is not a "credible expert on the topic" but the original "surgeons" of the Texas study are?
I can't help but to see many contradictory and hypocritical tendencies on your part. Pardon the pun, but I don't have a dog in this fight and am only trying to incorporate some fairness on the matter.
Are you serious, you are asking how is a non medically trained person not qualified to analyse Dog Bite Injuries? The question doesn't even warrant an answer. Let me ask you, do you take the word of say a group like NAMBLA ( North American Man/Boy Love Association) when they say molesting a child doesn't harm the child? The study is on dog bite related fatalities and serious injuries, do you seriously think a Pitbull Nutter could be an expert on such things when they have zero experience with treating these Injuries? Who do you think is an expert in such matters? The question beggars disbelief. As for the breed of dog, The surgeons merely go on what they are told by the Authorities, all dog bite related fatalities or attacks that result in hospitalisation, the Authorities are involved and the breed identified. People like Karen get upset that these Authorities label a dog a Pitbull. Because in her Nutter world, breed identification is impossible, except of course she is doing the identifying.
There are over 400 breeds of dog available to the Public, so far this year in America, Pitbulls have killed 9 people, mostly children. No other breed of dog has been involved in a DBRF this year. Do you find that contradictory and hypocritical? How do you account for that?
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E-kul, you say:
So is it your position that she wrote a book that critically analyzed her own book, "Fatal Dog Attacks"? (ISBN #0972191402)
What is the ISBN # of this book you mention where she critically anaylzed her own book?
My Mistake "Fatal Dog Attacks" by Karen Delise
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Pitbulls never harm humans if not abused or neglected IMO. I've had 6 and they all loved children and would give their lives to protect a woman or child with no hesitation
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A big problem is Muslim gangsters in cities where they have "Islamic laws" preventing dogs to stay inside houses or treated as man's best friend, leading to neglect ??? and/or abuse. I saw my neighbor doing this, actually chaining a huge dumbell to a puppy's neck to "make him tougher" and said he mixes gunpowder in his food (WTF?!??!?)
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When you look at areas that have adopted to phase out the "pitbull", what you find is that dog bite occurance statistics pretty much generally stayed the same. I think the pitbulls odds of attacking are directly related to how strong it's prey drive has stayed in tact during breeding and the kind of upbringing it had. The better its schooling, the less chance it has of being part of another statisitc. It's really pretty simple but when it comes to it, I know first hand MOST owners of any breed do not do what is neccessary to raise a well rounded, healthy dog.
I don't doubt Ekul had a shitty experience and you cant really blame the guy for being pyschologically damaged due to his run in. I can understand his bitterness for having to endure the physical tramua. Most anyone that would have had that kind of experience would have negative opinions about the breed that attacked them. I know that even after owning an Amstaff myself, I am very weary of free roaming dogs of the same type. Its a fact that they are powerfull, tenancious animals and they can and do cause severe damage to individuals when they attack. Owners that can't be honest about that much are not respecting the breed and in turn are usually the same type of individuals that find their dogs in trouble, often helping to place the typical stereotype on the dog.
The dog should be muzzled in public and securely restrained. Private property shouldnt have a way for dogs to escape. People that can not physically control their dogs should not own them and I think there needs to be strictly enforced heavy jail time or fines. No slaps on the wrist for people who cant follow simply placed guidlines. I would perfer that over having the dog complelty getting wiped out because some jerkoffs can't or won't follow certain procedures that ensure the upmost care for the breed and the public. Overall, there needs to be a new mental awkening where owners don't allow the breed to be characterised as a ghetto thug type of pet.
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Ekulo being raped with more facts in this thread.
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My Mistake "Fatal Dog Attacks" by Karen Delise
You sir made an honest mistake here, correct? How rational would it now for me to brand you a liar? But it is appropriate for you to call Ms. Delise a liar after making HER one mistake? (And I'm only agreeing that she did make this mistake you say she did for sake of argument.)
You say:
Yes, because it is disingenuous, it is not a small LIE, she is suggesting that she has been thorough, comprehensive, if she has indeed been caught in a lie, one can then only suppose how many other incidents she has missed (and perhaps deliberately so)How rational would it now be of me to
By your own methods, I could have determined that you LIED in stating she wrote a "book" that critically analyzed her OWN book and therefore YOU are "disingenuous" and state that "one can then only suppose how many other incidents you had missed" etc etc..
No, I did not use your methods and rationally so, merely deemed that you just made an honest mistake.
This is madness sir.
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You sir made an honest mistake here, correct? How rational would it now for me to brand you a liar? But it is appropriate for you to call Ms. Delise a liar after making HER one mistake? (And I'm only agreeing that she did make this mistake you say she did for sake of argument.)
You say:
By your own methods, I could have determined that you LIED in stating she wrote a "book" that critically analyzed her OWN book and therefore YOU are "disingenuous" and state that "one can then only suppose how many other incidents you had missed" etc etc..
No, I did not use your methods and rationally so, merely deemed that you just made an honest mistake.
This is madness sir.
Your grasping at straws, trying to compare a typo to someone making a false claim. And arguing that Pitbulls are not dangerous is just disingenuous. They are so well known as a violent breed that their dangerousness has become part of the venacular. How often do you hear someone express "I'm just like a Pitbull, when I get a hold of something, I never let go". Their are countless ways that are regularly used when comparing a Pitbulls game nature in everyday conversation. Another example are the dog tattoos of choice, the Pitbull, designed to represent, power, ferocity, violence and intimidation. I find arguing if Pitbulls are dangerous or not comparable to arguing with an idiot if ice is cold.
It actually makes me sick in the stomach in the same way as if I were arguing with a member of North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) if molesting boys was wrong. These fruitcakes actually think Molesting children isn't harmful and in some cases good for the boy. How fucked up is that? And you can't really win an argument with a man who wants to fuck boys, his obsession with boys is too great. And you can't really win an argument with someone who is obsessed by fighting breeds of dog like pitbulls. Their obsession is simply too great.(And it is an obsession) I don't do it to win the argument, their is nothing to win, I just do it to counter the Pitbull propaganda out there, it is everywhere. I mean people are actually regularly being maimed, mauled and killed. it's not like this isn't happening, people are dying. And for what, the fulfilment of a sick minorities fetish with owning pitbulls.
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Your grasping at straws, trying to compare a typo to someone making a false claim. And arguing that Pitbulls are not dangerous is just disingenuous. They are so well known as a violent breed that their dangerousness has become part of the venacular. How often do you hear someone express "I'm just like a Pitbull, when I get a hold of something, I never let go". Their are countless ways that are regularly used when comparing a Pitbulls game nature in everyday conversation. Another example are the dog tattoos of choice, the Pitbull, designed to represent, power, ferocity, violence and intimidation. I find arguing if Pitbulls are dangerous or not comparable to arguing with an idiot if ice is cold.
It actually makes me sick in the stomach in the same way as if I were arguing with a member of North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) if molesting boys was wrong. These fruitcakes actually think Molesting children isn't harmful and in some cases good for the boy. How fucked up is that? And you can't really win an argument with a man who wants to fuck boys, his obsession with boys is too great. And you can't really win an argument with someone who is obsessed by fighting breeds of dog like pitbulls. Their obsession is simply to great. I don't do it to win the argument, their is nothing to win, I just do it to counter the Pitbull propaganda out there, it is everywhere. I mean people are actually regularly being maimed, mauled and killed. it's not like this isn't happening, people are dying. And for what, the fulfilment of a sick minorities fetish with pitbulls.
Perhaps what you should do, rather than rambling as you do, is take Ms. Delise's rebuttal and break it down piece by piece. Or maybe you've never read it?
Then perhaps you should take her two published books and provide us with her lies and then provide us with the truth via links and studies.
http://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Dog-Attacks-Stories-Statistics/dp/0972191402/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365957685&sr=1-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Dog-Attacks-Stories-Statistics/dp/0972191402/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365957685&sr=1-2)
http://www.amazon.com/Pit-Bull-Placebo-Politics-Aggression/dp/0972191410/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365957685&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Pit-Bull-Placebo-Politics-Aggression/dp/0972191410/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365957685&sr=1-1)
here's a FREE version for you and anyone else to read:
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit%20Bull%20Placebo.pdf (http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit%20Bull%20Placebo.pdf)
All you have done thus far in this thread is ramble rather than laying out facts with cited sources.
You mention ONE study where the authors report that the dogs implicated in 87% of THEIR cases (of 199 dogs) were not "pit bull" dogs or lacked a breed label at all. The authors go on to state, "We should state that our study is limited by the retrospective nature and the limited number of cases in which the breed of dog responsible for the attack could be determined. This lack of information may compromise the validity of our results implicating the pit bull as a major culprit in severe dog bites admitted to our trauma center."
To be fair and impartial, us citizens need facts backed up with links and cited sources not ramblings about NAMBLA and little boy butt sex.
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A big problem is Muslim gangsters in cities where they have "Islamic laws" preventing dogs to stay inside houses or treated as man's best friend, leading to neglect ??? and/or abuse. I saw my neighbor doing this, actually chaining a huge dumbell to a puppy's neck to "make him tougher" and said he mixes gunpowder in his food (WTF?!??!?)
He must have heard Notorious B.I.G.'s song "Warning"
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Perhaps what you should do, rather than rambling as you do, is take Ms. Delise's rebuttal and break it down piece by piece. Or maybe you've never read it?
Then perhaps you should take her two published books and provide us with her lies and then provide us with the truth via links and studies.
http://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Dog-Attacks-Stories-Statistics/dp/0972191402/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365957685&sr=1-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Dog-Attacks-Stories-Statistics/dp/0972191402/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365957685&sr=1-2)
http://www.amazon.com/Pit-Bull-Placebo-Politics-Aggression/dp/0972191410/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365957685&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Pit-Bull-Placebo-Politics-Aggression/dp/0972191410/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365957685&sr=1-1)
here's a FREE version for you and anyone else to read:
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit%20Bull%20Placebo.pdf (http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit%20Bull%20Placebo.pdf)
All you have done thus far in this thread is ramble rather than laying out facts with cited sources.
You mention ONE study where the authors report that the dogs implicated in 87% of THEIR cases (of 199 dogs) were not "pit bull" dogs or lacked a breed label at all. The authors go on to state, "We should state that our study is limited by the retrospective nature and the limited number of cases in which the breed of dog responsible for the attack could be determined. This lack of information may compromise the validity of our results implicating the pit bull as a major culprit in severe dog bites admitted to our trauma center."
To be fair and impartial, us citizens need facts backed up with links and cited sources not ramblings about NAMBLA and little boy butt sex.
Karen Delise is a well known Nutter, she is considered a fraud and a hypocrite. You can visit this link here to find evidence of her frauudelent ways: http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/scapegoats-part-1-bloodhound.html (http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/scapegoats-part-1-bloodhound.html). I will also post a letter below from Senior Assistant City Attorney who read her book and penned a letter stating what he thought of it.
And as for your other question. The study merely points out that when conducting studies such as they have done, their are variables that can't be accounted for, in this case there is a small percentage of attacks whereby the breed can't be verified. They didn't say this could invalidate the study, only compromise it. It is just as likely with a complete picture of the dog breeds implicated it could further incriminate Pitbulls. This issue was also dealt with during the deposition of Dr Alan Beck, who explained quite precisely how during these studies their has to be a certain percentage of data for a study to be considered representative, as it is almost always impossible to get complete data. Both the CDC study and the Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011 study had enough data to be considered representative.
Like I said, arguing if Pitbulls are dangerous is disingenuous, it truly is like arguing with an idiot if ice is cold. It is just a tactic used by Pitbull Nutters to prevent rational discussion on what should be done about the epidemic of serious dog attacks. mainly because a solution could be serious restrictions or even breed bans. An option that frightens the average Pitbull addict. Imagine taking away a drug addicts stash and their reaction and you have a visual for the way Pitbull nutters react to potential solutions to the issue. I am well beyond arguing if pit-bulls are dangerous, my concern is "What to do about it". Unfortunately the solution offered up by Nutters, which is to do nothing will never be acceptable to a decent citizen. You seem to want information, so I provided you with some links. Enjoy.
To be fair, I have dealt with pitbull Nutters on a daily basis for years now, I know your shtick and it isn't to view the problem impartially, your agenda is to promote the right to own fighting breeds of dog. The main difference between you and I, one child being mauled to death is one child too many, as i have no interest in Pitbulls and they aren't a human need requirement, it wouldn't matter to me to see them criminalised. But for you, their isn't a limit to the amount of deaths caused by Pitbulls that would be a problem for you. Because, essentially, the question is, How many Pitbull fatalities is enough before Dog owners will make a relatively modest change in behavior? Unfortunately for the rest of us, a Pitbull Nutter doesn't have a limit to the amount of carnage Pitbulls inflict, like a drug, they just have to have one and they don't care if it will potentially kill them or someone else. Such is the nature of addiction!
You can read Dr Alan Becks deposition here: http://legal.pblnn.com/images/Denverpleadings/alanbeckdepo.pdf (http://legal.pblnn.com/images/Denverpleadings/alanbeckdepo.pdf)
You can read the study Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011 here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSba3p4NW5CT09ZX0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSba3p4NW5CT09ZX0E/edit?usp=sharing)
You can download the Interview with Gary Wilkes an experienced pitbull Trainer here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbdzhIVTdwUVFkUFk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbdzhIVTdwUVFkUFk/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read the study "Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998" here https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbU1JHWGZPWHZ3a0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbU1JHWGZPWHZ3a0E/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read Adam Greenbaum, Pkastic Surgeon Interview in relation to Pitbull Injuries here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbMUR0YzZvbHFnNWc/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbMUR0YzZvbHFnNWc/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read the study "Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to December 26, 2011" here https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbRDFTTmtyWEFiWTQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbRDFTTmtyWEFiWTQ/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read the study "Aggressive Behavior in Adopted Dogs (Canis Familiaris) that Passed a Temperament Test" here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbNnpieXl4Qmotd1E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbNnpieXl4Qmotd1E/edit?usp=sharing)
Letter from Senior Assistant City Attorney who read Karen Delise's book "Fatal Dog Attacks". He wrote this letter stating what he thought of it.
I have read Karen Delise's entire book.(Fatal Dog Attacks) I challenge her entire book as being a false work for several reasons:
1) Qualifications. Karen Delise is a licensed Veterinary Technician with a degree in
Veterinary Science Technology. She offers no basis for her opinions to be of any consequence to anyone; she simply lacks any credibility based upon her education or training in her occupational field.
2) Data collection. I don’t believe she actually collected the official reports on these cases as she claims for several reasons.
a) First, she fails to reproduce any of this alleged data in the book – just her alleged conclusions after having collected this data. IF she had the data – why not publish it? Wouldn’t any objective reviewer expect to see a table of the information, such as a listing of the actual number of fatal attacks, the locations (states/counties/cities), the type of dog involved (reported/revised), age of victim, or the cause of death/nature of injury, etc.
b) Second, such a task would not be easy; I have made some attempts and found it very difficult to track such reports down.
c) Fourth, and most damning -- if she actually claims to have requested and obtained copies of reports involving each and every fatal or serious maulings in the 1980’s, this would be a lie. I have the only available copies of reports involving a highly reported fatal pit bull attack upon a 3-year old child in Denver in 1986. As Ms. Delise never contacted my office, never obtained copies of these reports, I challenge her claims of researching these cases. She provides no information within her book to even suggest that she had conducted any individual case review.
Conclusion: As a direct result of this apparent knowing or intentional misrepresentation, if not constituting direct fraud, Ms. Delise’s credibility in regards to her alleged work and her conclusions in her books is subject to severe, if not complete, impeachment, otherwise known as “complete discreditation”.
3) Unreliable Publisher. The publisher of Ms. Delise’s books is “Anubis Publishing”, which is an enigma, as it can’t be located. But now there is little doubt that her book has not been “published” by any entity with a history of ethical responsibility in fact checking or editing of substantive claims.
4) Ms. Delise – whom, as explained above, is not a credible expert on this topic, but in fact, is a self-serving author who may have falsified her research and who apparently has no proof of the creditability, reliability, or accuracy of her conclusions. The financial source for her hypothesized self-publication could be hidden for a multitude of reasons, including that her financial supporter(s) may have their own hidden political agenda.
Conclusion: Ms. Delise’s book appears to be nothing more than a series of subjective conclusions that are impossible to verify in any manner—either through the data allegedly collected, or any objective methodology of logically analysis.
The book simply appears to be a piece of propaganda with a clear political agenda to assist anti-BSL groups by printing all of their subjective opinions and wrap it in a cloak of self-serving objective authority through an unverifiable claim that the author “reviewed” all this data, when I have personal knowledge that she has not reviewed the data of two very high profile fatal maulings in the 1980’s that directly led to one of the most controversial Pit Bull bans in the United States.
Therefore, Ms. Delise’s work is not only highly suspect, but may be considered as being without any credibility, without any academic integrity whatsoever, that the totality of circumstances could justify the fully informed reader to reach the exact opposite conclusions of Ms. Delise, because it may appear to that reader that she is a fraud. -- Kory Nelson - Senior Assistant City Attorney in the Prosecution Section for the City & County of Denver, Colorado.
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The problem with mentally deranged people like E-kul is that they never bother to properly reevaualte their own opinion or consider other peoples, especially ones with conflicting points of view into account. Every time E-kul is challenged on some matter he just makes a point to copy paste more drivel he found on the web in an attempt to continuously hammer his point of view onto anyone who opposes him.
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The problem with mentally deranged people like E-kul is that they never bother to properly reevaualte their own opinion or consider other peoples, especially ones with conflicting points of view into account. Every time E-kul is challenged on some matter he just makes a point to copy paste more drivel he found on the web in an attempt to continuously hammer his point of view onto anyone who opposes him.
What a hypocrite, you don't even read what I post. hardly makes you qualified to comment on it. And how is people regularly being maimed, mauled and killed by Pitbulls my point of view. These are simple facts. What you mean is, I should re-evaluate my opinion more towards yours, because you like your opinion, you don't even care if the facts validate it, it suits your needs and desires and that's all that matters. If you wish to give me an argument to help me re-evaluate my opinion more towards yours, please feel free. I suspect it will be in the realm of "i fucken luv Pitbulls, they're a grate dog ya know, a NANNY DOG in fact. I fuckin love em. They're tough eh. I fucken love my Pitbull and anyone who disagrees is a fucking idiot anyways. Fuck dose haters. It's how ya raise em anyway, it doesn't matter that for over a century they have been bred to be game and fight to death in the pits, a little bit of luvin is all they need". feel free to prove me wrong and offer up even a modicum of an argument.
And suggesting that I don't take other people point of view into account is bullshit. It's just that I find their point of view false, offensive, dangerous, biased and self serving,. Their points of view lacks any community minded spirit, it is narcissistic and often it is laced with threats, aggression and violence. I have studied the issue relentlessly for years, and once you wade through all the propaganda and lies, the argument of the Pitbull Nutter is "We want a fucking pitbull, and anyone who doesn't like it can go fuck themselves." Hardly an opinion that one should consider.
Please tell me, do you take the following point of view seriously, put forward by North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA), the pedophile and pederasty advocacy organization in the United States that works to abolish age of consent laws criminalizing adult sexual involvement with minors. They want to fuck boys legally and they even have studies to verify their claims that it is all good and no-one gets harmed. Or do you simply dismiss them for the freaks they are.
I see Pitbull Advocates the same way, self seeking weirdos who put their own interest above children's and societies.
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You are quite the Nutter aren't you. I have read her retarded rebuttal and her hypocritical claims accusing others of the very things she does herself. Just as I would spend little time rebutting the arguments of a paedophile who wanted to molest boys and justify it, I spend just as much time listening or responding to the rambling of a Pitbull obsessed Nutter. I have already wasted enough time even talking about Karen, she is irrelevant in the issue except to the hardcore pitbull Nutter, and they aren't taken very seriously, their perverse Bias is all too obvious.
And as for your other question. The study merely points out that when conducting studies such as they have done, their are variables that can't be accounted for, in this case there is a small percentage of attacks whereby the breed can't be verified. They didn't say this could invalidate the study, only compromise it. It is just as likely with a complete picture of the dog breeds implicated it could further incriminate Pitbulls. This issue was also dealt with during the deposition of Dr Alan Beck, who explained quite precisely how during these studies their has to be a certain percentage of data for a study to be considered representative, as it is almost always impossible to get complete data. Both the CDC study and the Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011 study had enough data to be considered representative.
Like I said, arguing if Pitbulls are dangerous is disingenuous, it truly is like arguing with an idiot if ice is cold. It is just a tactic used by Pitbull Nutters to prevent rational discussion on what should be done about the epidemic of serious dog attacks. mainly because a solution could be serious restrictions or even breed bans. An option that frightens the average Pitbull addict. Imagine taking away a drug addicts stash and their reaction and you have a visual for the way Pitbull nutters react to potential solutions to the issue. I am well beyond arguing if pit-bulls are dangerous, my concern is "What to do about it". Unfortunately the solution offered up by Nutters, which is to do nothing will never be acceptable to a decent citizen. You seem to want information, so I provided you with some links. Enjoy.
To be fair, I have dealt with pitbull Nutters on a daily basis for years now, I know your shtick and it isn't to view the problem impartially, your agenda is to promote the right to own fighting breeds of dog. The main difference between you and I, one child being mauled to death is one child too many, as i have no interest in Pitbulls and they aren't a human need requirement, it wouldn't matter to me to see them criminalised. But for you, their isn't a limit to the amount of deaths caused by Pitbulls that would be a problem for you. Because, essentially, the question is, How many Pitbull fatalities is enough before Dog owners will make a relatively modest change in behavior? Unfortunately for the rest of us, a Pitbull Nutter doesn't have a limit to the amount of carnage Pitbulls inflict, like a drug, they just have to have one and they don't care if it will potentially kill them or someone else. Such is the nature of addiction!
You can read Dr Alan Becks deposition here: http://legal.pblnn.com/images/Denverpleadings/alanbeckdepo.pdf (http://legal.pblnn.com/images/Denverpleadings/alanbeckdepo.pdf)
You can read the study Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011 here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSba3p4NW5CT09ZX0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSba3p4NW5CT09ZX0E/edit?usp=sharing)
You can download the Interview with Gary Wilkes an experienced pitbull Trainer here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbdzhIVTdwUVFkUFk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbdzhIVTdwUVFkUFk/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read the study "Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998" here https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbU1JHWGZPWHZ3a0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbU1JHWGZPWHZ3a0E/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read Adam Greenbaum, Pkastic Surgeon Interview in relation to Pitbull Injuries here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbMUR0YzZvbHFnNWc/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbMUR0YzZvbHFnNWc/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read the study "Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to December 26, 2011" here https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbRDFTTmtyWEFiWTQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbRDFTTmtyWEFiWTQ/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read the study "Aggressive Behavior in Adopted Dogs (Canis Familiaris) that Passed a Temperament Test" here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbNnpieXl4Qmotd1E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbNnpieXl4Qmotd1E/edit?usp=sharing)
Ekul, I thank you for the links and I will read them impartially.
I also thank you for:
the name calling you directed at me (ad hominem)
the pedophile and drug addict references (red herring)
and all the other remaining fallacies you subscribe to in your long windedness. Impressive.
You say I'm a "Nutter" when I've already stated "I have no dog in this fight". I'm merely a citizen who looks for fairness on all subjects, including this one. I wish you too could be fair but since you have been maimed I can appreciate your, dare I say, "pit bull-ness" to spread anti propaganda.
Ekul, you asked me earlier about where in the Texas study "Youtube.com" is cited as a reference... By your own link, a quick search of the study in question has 3 references to youtube.com.
Have you read the the good doctors published reply to Ms. Delise's published rebuttal?
If so, you should link that for all to see ;)
Anyhow, I have to take my child to the circus. Enjoy your day sir.
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What a hypocrite, you don't even read what I post. hardly makes you qualified to comment on it. And how is people regularly being maimed, mauled and killed by Pitbulls my point of view. These are simple facts. What you mean is, I should re-evaluate my opinion more towards yours, because you like your opinion, you don't even care if the facts validate it, it suits your needs and desires and that's all that matters. If you wish to give me an argument to help me re-evaluate my opinion more towards yours, please feel free. I suspect it will be in the realm of "i fucken luv Pitbulls, they're a grate dog ya know, a NANNY DOG in fact. I fuckin love em. They're tough eh. I fucken love my Pitbull and anyone who disagrees is a fucking idiot anyways. Fuck dose haters. It's how ya raise em anyway, it doesn't matter that for over a century they have been bred to be game and fight to death in the pits, a little bit of luvin is all they need". feel free to prove me wrong and offer up even a modicum of an argument.
And suggesting that I don't take other people point of view into account is bullshit. It's just that I find their point of view false, offensive, dangerous, biased and self serving,. Their points of view lacks any community minded spirit, it is narcissistic and often it is laced with threats, aggression and violence. I have studied the issue relentlessly for years, and once you wade through all the propaganda and lies, the argument of the Pitbull Nutter is "We want a fucking pitbull, and anyone who doesn't like it can go fuck themselves." Hardly an opinion that one should consider.
Thanks for proving my exact point.
Please tell me, do you take the following point of view seriously, put forward by North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA), the pedophile and pederasty advocacy organization in the United States that works to abolish age of consent laws criminalizing adult sexual involvement with minors. They want to fuck boys legally and they even have studies to verify their claims that it is all good and no-one gets harmed. Or do you simply dismiss them for the freaks they are.
I see Pitbull Advocates the same way, self seeking weirdos who put their own interest above children's and societies.
How is this relevant? Logically this has nothing to do with your argument.
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Dogs are so scary and some are mean.
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Fuck pit bulls.
I don't care what you dog lovers say, pit bulls are dangerous. They have a tendency to snap. I've seen pit bulls raised by nice people snap. I got attacked by one once too but luckily didnt get hurt.
Its not just pits raised by assholes who turn out bad. The nicest and sweetest pit can just suddenly turn into a monster.
The truth.
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Fuck pit bulls.
I don't care what you dog lovers say, pit bulls are dangerous. They have a tendency to snap. I've seen pit bulls raised by nice people snap. I got attacked by one once too but luckily didnt get hurt.
Its not just pits raised by assholes who turn out bad. The nicest and sweetest pit can just suddenly turn into a monster.
The truth.
Yeah! Plus when other dogs act like dogs, they're not pitbulls! My neighbor has a dachshund that bites my fucking ankles every time I go near it. Imagine if it were a pitbull!?? You can't tell me that it wouldn't bite at me if it were a pitbull!
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???
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No, the retard statement is pretty accurate. I work with the group that rescued all the vick dogs. Pits are amazing animals, and when raised by normal people, are normal dogs.
before the 80's, they were never involved in attacks. Since the explosion of rap culture, influx of immigration, and glamorization of thug life, the dogs have been abused, exploited, and their PR has been ruined. but this is a cyclical process, and it has happened before with numerous other breeds, like the blood hound, the german shep, dobermans, rotts...whatever the fad dog is that retards have, they turn into monsters.
here comes "e-kul" to call me a "pidiot," and talk about what horrific creatures they are.
Racist post reported. White exploitation is what destroyed the reputation of the breed.
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Thanks for proving my exact point.
So your point of view is that: false, offensive, dangerous, biased and self serving points of view should be taken into consideration when deciding health & safety policy for civilised society. That certainly is an interesting point of view. I will take that into consideration.
How is this relevant? Logically this has nothing to do with your argument.
And the connection between pedo's wanting to legalise child molestation and Pitbull advocacy is both parties only take their own self interest into account, the needs of the children that will be inevitably be harmed due to their lobbying and legislation is never considered. This has everything to do with my argument, what I am suggesting is that their will always be perverse minorities who wish to push their strange ideology and agenda on other people even though they know people will be harmed, sometimes killed. Just because people want to fuck boys or people want to own fighting breeds of dog, doesn't mean it is a good thing (of course unless you like fucking boys of possessing fighting dogs) or that such a thing should be legal.
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Ekul, I thank you for the links and I will read them impartially.
I also thank you for:
the name calling you directed at me (ad hominem)
the pedophile and drug addict references (red herring)
and all the other remaining fallacies you subscribe to in your long windedness. Impressive.
You say I'm a "Nutter" when I've already stated "I have no dog in this fight". I'm merely a citizen who looks for fairness on all subjects, including this one. I wish you too could be fair but since you have been maimed I can appreciate your, dare I say, "pit bull-ness" to spread anti propaganda.
Ekul, you asked me earlier about where in the Texas study "Youtube.com" is cited as a reference... By your own link, a quick search of the study in question has 3 references to youtube.com.
Have you read the the good doctors published reply to Ms. Delise's published rebuttal?
If so, you should link that for all to see ;)
Anyhow, I have to take my child to the circus. Enjoy your day sir.
The youtube references are just video representation of already referenced website material. Here is one of them, it gives the names and details of some of the many victims whose lives were lost in one of the time periods stipulated in the study:
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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The youtube references are just video representation of already referenced website material. Here is one of them, it gives the names and details of some of the many victims whose lives were lost in one of the time periods stipulated in the study:
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Nice song. My original point remains: Youtube is hardly a reputable source of reliable information for a scientific study.
Similarly, the website, "Dogsbite.org" which is referenced as well. Dr. Bini states, “Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred…A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).”
Source? Dogsbite.org What's next? Wikipedia.com?
Here's a couple of links for the readers here to see the OTHER side of the story.. I would share Ms. Delise's rebuttal to the Texas "study" but I must ask her permission before doing so. I should also post the surgeon's pathetic reply to HER (they did not address one issue she brought up) but I should probably ask their permission as well..
http://legal.pblnn.com/9-uncategorised/121-why-the-texas-study-on-mortality-mauling-a-maiming-by-vicious-dogs-is-scientifically-unreliable (http://legal.pblnn.com/9-uncategorised/121-why-the-texas-study-on-mortality-mauling-a-maiming-by-vicious-dogs-is-scientifically-unreliable)
http://www.examiner.com/article/pit-bull-perspectives-interview-with-karen-delise-part-1
(http://www.examiner.com/article/pit-bull-perspectives-interview-with-karen-delise-part-1)
Off to work now...
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Nice song. My original point remains: Youtube is hardly a reputable source of reliable information for a scientific study.
Similarly, the website, "Dogsbite.org" which is referenced as well. Dr. Bini states, “Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred…A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).”
Source? Dogsbite.org What's next? Wikipedia.com?
Here's a couple of links for the readers here to see the OTHER side of the story.. I would share Ms. Delise's rebuttal to the Texas "study" but I must ask her permission before doing so. I should also post the surgeon's pathetic reply to HER (they did not address one issue she brought up) but I should probably ask their permission as well..
http://legal.pblnn.com/9-uncategorised/121-why-the-texas-study-on-mortality-mauling-a-maiming-by-vicious-dogs-is-scientifically-unreliable (http://legal.pblnn.com/9-uncategorised/121-why-the-texas-study-on-mortality-mauling-a-maiming-by-vicious-dogs-is-scientifically-unreliable)
http://www.examiner.com/article/pit-bull-perspectives-interview-with-karen-delise-part-1
(http://www.examiner.com/article/pit-bull-perspectives-interview-with-karen-delise-part-1)
Off to work now...
The youtube reference is a visual representation of already referenced material, it is an EXTRA reference, so as to provide the researcher with multiple ways of viewing a sourced reference material. It is in no way shady. And I knew your were a full blown Nutter, the link you provided trying to discredit a peer reviewed study published in the Annals of Surgery actually highlights how desperate and pathetic the pro pitbull crowd is. They reference one of the most brutal Pitbull attacks on a man called James Chapple, and then they challenge that he didn't die from dog attack. This poor man simply got of the bus when set upon by two large pitbulls. The attack was so savage, his left arm had to be amputated below the elbow, and doctors weren't sure if he would ever regain full use of his right arm. The victim spent the remaining few months in and out of hospital, but never fully recovered and died. They then go on to say cause of death was hypertensive and atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Something that was exacerbated by having limbs amputated and his many other serious injuries.
It's the same thing as if someone punches someone else in the head and the victim has an aneurysm burst and they argue he didn't die from the punch, it was his aneurysm. It really is disgusting how they grasp at straws, the man who tried to save him during the attack visited him regularly over the following months, but eventually got the call telling him that the victim had succumbed to his injuries, and yet the Pitbull Nutters make outlandish claims that the victim fully recovered from losing one limb and the use of the other. For me this highlights how disturbingly sick the pro pitbull people are. The way they treat victims is sociopathic, to even suggest that a Pitbull attack of the magnitude that James Chapelle endured had nothing to do with his early demise is disgusting.
And then once they have finished denigrating yet another victim, they use the old, identifying a Pitbull is impossible, an issue that has been dealt with time and time again, and yet they love this propaganda. Fancy believing that of the over 400 breeds of dog available, that identifying a breed of dog is impossible. They actually believe this. How anybody can not see through this is ridiculous. It never occurs to them that if a non-pitbull can be confused as a Pitbull, then a Pitbull could surely be identified as a non-pitbull, So for every non-Pitbull wrongly mis-identified as a Pitbull their could be a Pitbull wrongly identified as a non-Pitbull. But going by their ridiculous argument only Pitbulls can be misidentified, every other breed is easily recognised. Their logic beggars belief. They have been trying this nonsense for years, even in the courts. here's what the courts had to say about their ridiculousness
"The Court concludes that the definitions of a Pit Bull Terrier in this Ordinance are not unconstitutionally vague. An ordinary person could easily refer to a dictionary, a dog buyer's guide or any dog book for guidance and instruction; also, the American Kennel Club and United Kennel Club have set forth standards for Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers to help determine whether a dog is described by any one of them. While it may be true that some definitions contain descriptions which lack "mathematical certainty," such precision and definiteness is not essential to constitutionality."
Thank God the legal system doesn't take these Nutters seriously. They truly are sociopaths. Please feel free to take those links you posted seriously, I think anybody who could believe any of that information has some serious issues or the more than likely case of extreme bias based on an obsession with Pitbulls.
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So your point of view is that: false, offensive, dangerous, biased and self serving points of view should be taken into consideration when deciding health & safety policy for civilised society. That certainly is an interesting point of view.
Nope. Now you are just inserting words into my mouth.
And the connection between pedo's wanting to legalise child molestation and Pitbull advocacy is both parties only take their own self interest into account, the needs of the children that will be inevitably be harmed due to their lobbying and legislation is never considered. This has everything to do with my argument, what I am suggesting is that their will always be perverse minorities who wish to push their strange ideology and agenda on other people even though they know people will be harmed, sometimes killed. Just because people want to fuck boys or people want to own fighting breeds of dog, doesn't mean it is a good thing (of course unless you like fucking boys of possessing fighting dogs) or that such a thing should be legal.
And now you've basically lost the argument by tying the illegal behaviour of pedophiles to the legal right to own pitbulls. The only relationship between the two is in your head and its not logical. You clearly have mental issues, I suggest you should go see a mental health professional immediately.
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Nope. Now you are just inserting words into my mouth.
And now you've basically lost the argument by tying the illegal behaviour of pedophiles to the legal right to own pitbulls. The only relationship between the two is in your head and its not logical. You clearly have mental issues, I suggest you should go see a mental health professional immediately.
And now you just showed what a knobhead you are, tying legality with morality. So if paedophilia is legal, which is what the NAMBLA group are lobbying for, will you consider it something you would participate in. And for your information, their are some states and countries were Pitbull ownership isn't a legal right. And I actually place paedophiles above Pitbull Owners and advocates. Pitbull Nutters cause far more children to suffer.
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And now you just showed what a knobhead you are, tying legality with morality. So if paedophilia is legal, which is what the NAMBLA group are lobbying for, will you consider it something you would participate in. And for your information, their are some states and countries were Pitbull ownership isn't a legal right. And I actually place paedophiles above Pitbull Owners and advocates. Pitbull Nutters cause far more children to suffer.
Once again you have no argument. What you think is your argument is actually just a jumbled collection of your opinions/morals and trying to justify forcing others to live by your moral code.
Everytime you tried to put forward a logically sound argument you were shutdown by facts and numbers that state that the situation is contrary to your opinion. Therefore you resort to personal insults, ad hominems and red herring tactics such as trying to link pedophilia and pitbulls.
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Are you fucking kidding me?, I just went through the whole thread and you haven't even presented ONE argument not even ONE, all you have done is pretend I have been shut down, this is your wishful thinking, any reasonable person would see that you are just severely butthurt because you can't get others to buy your nonsense about Pitbulls. The following is what you have offered so far in this thread
Everyone who doesn't share your point of you is some sort of nutter. I believe it would be logical to conclude that actually it is you who is a nutcase, not everyone else.
I think you are fat pansy girl in real life who only pick on "bullies" who are smaller and weaker then you.
The problem with mentally deranged people like E-kul is that they never bother to properly reevaualte their own opinion or consider other peoples, especially ones with conflicting points of view into account. Every time E-kul is challenged on some matter he just makes a point to copy paste more drivel he found on the web in an attempt to continuously hammer his point of view onto anyone who opposes him.
Once again you have no argument. What you think is your argument is actually just a jumbled collection of your opinions/morals and trying to justify forcing others to live by your moral code.
Everytime you tried to put forward a logically sound argument you were shutdown by facts and numbers that state that the situation is contrary to your opinion. Therefore you resort to personal insults, ad hominems and red herring tactics such as trying to link pedophilia and pitbulls.
You have just projected everything you have done in this thread onto me. Go back through this thread and see the arguments I have put forward. I have cited a recent study, done by PhD's, Academics and medical professionals, Highly qualified people who have their study published in a peer reviewed journal. I have provided links to other relevant studies, links to depositions DURING BSL hearings, links to a highly qualified dog trainer with decades of experience working with pitbulls. And none of them you have read. You are the only one here making ad hominem arguments, at least I acknowledge my dislike for the advocates while offering up information that discredits them, You just sing the same old ad hominem tune over and over again.
I have addressed every argument put forward to me, and what have you done other than express how much you love to swing from the nutsack of a Pitbull because it enhances your diminished sense of masculinity. While you continue to delude yourself about your so called non existent argument you put forward, Pitbulls continue to kill someone every few weeks. That's not my opinion, that is a FACT. Please refer me to these facts and numbers you are referring to, please enlighten us all with your statistics proving Pitbulls are a suitable breed of dog for a civilised society. I look forward to it. Just to make it easier for your Pitiot brain, I will post some nice meme's to make it easier for you to understand. I literally have hundreds of these, i can post them all day every day. I have dealt with Nutters like you on a daily basis for years. Do you really think your hostile stance and "I wanna fucking own a Pitbull and fuck everyone else" argument is new to me?
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And now E-kul tries to burry me with a copy-pasta jumble of stuff he found on google as well as personal attacks directed at me. May I remind you E-Kul, the last time I challenged you to a fight if you ever show
up in the USA your promptly backed down once you realized I was serious?
BTW, I do not need to present a counter argument to point out flaws in your 'argument' of which there are many. Basically you fucked up.
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And now E-kul tries to burry me with a copy-pasta jumble of stuff he found on google as well as personal attacks directed at me. May I remind you E-Kul, the last time I challenged you to a fight if you ever show
up in the USA your promptly backed down once you realized I was serious?
BTW, I do not need to present a counter argument to point out flaws in your 'argument' of which there are many. Basically you fucked up.
I deal with Pit Nutters on a regular basis, I have seen and heard it all. I have received more threats from Pitbull Nutters than I can count. And do you think you are the first tough guy to threaten me, I find your threats laughable but not surprising considering you have ZERO argument. I will add that to the long list of threats I have received. After tangling with a couple of real life Pitbulls, I find the weaklings attracted to them about as intimidating as a class of kindergarten children.
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I will add that to your list of zero arguments put forward in this thread. I didn't find that stuff on the Internet, they are created by me. I don't know if you realise, but I spend my spare time advocating and lobbying for serious legislation regarding dangerous dogs. Like I said, I deal with Pit Nutters on a daily basis, I have seen and heard it all. I have received more death threats from Pitbull Nutters than I can count. And do you think you are the first tough guy to threaten me, I find your threats laughable but not surprising considering you have ZERO argument. I will add that to the long list of threats I have received. After tangling with a couple of real life Pitbulls, I find the weaklings attracted to them about as intimidating as a class of kindergarten children.
What threat? I challenged you to throw some hands since you are always bragging about how you beat up bullies and how much of a real man you are. I am not forcing you to meet me and I am not trying to hunt you down. Once again you keep putting words into my mouth or twisting the meaning of what I wrote.
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This e-kul is friggin' nuts. lol
Every thread I go to he's being a nut.
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I have cited a recent study, done by PhD's, Academics and medical professionals, Highly qualified people who have their study published in a peer reviewed journal.
E-kul, this study was done by non-animal behaviorists. Hardly "highly qualified".
Let me pull an E-kul move here and post a wall of text and then sit back and await his meltdown.
Here is the rebuttal letter to the study you have such a hard on for. Sent to the editor of the peer reviewed journal you mention above:
Imprudent use of Unreliable Dog Bite Tabulations and Unpublished Sources
To the Editor:
"That will be the argument that a lot of people have, that it’s not the dog. It’s the owner. But I think you really have to throw the emotion out. Yeah, it’s emotional. But throw it away and let’s look at our data."
Dr John Bini, quoted in the Houston Chronicle, “Doctors Bare Grim Pit Bull Data,” May 8, 2011
When we write on a subject, emotional or otherwise, a decent respect for all concerned obligates us to make careful and judicious use of sources, and, as we would in any scientific endeavor, to be conservative in our pronouncements.
This has been my aim during the 20 years that I have researched and written about dog bite related fatalities. I have published 2 books on the subject: Fatal Dog Attacks: The Stories Behind the Statistics1 and The Pit Bull Placebo: The Media, Myths and Politics of Canine Aggression. (2)
On the basis of my experience with this issue, I am dismayed by the erroneous data, the use of questionable sources, and the lack of fact checking that characterizes Dr Bini’s article. (3)
Case Presentation. In the first line, Dr Bini writes, “An 11-month-old boy arrived at our level 1 trauma center after being mauled by 2 pit bulls.”
There is no documented evidence from any authority that either dog involved in this incident were “pit bulls.” To determine whether the breed attributed to these dogs could be visually substantiated by a recognized expert, I submitted photographs of both dogs to Dr Amy Marder, VMD, CAAB.∗ Dr Marder reported the breed(s) of dog could not be reasonably determined by visual identification.
Introduction. “Pit bull” is not a recognized breed of dog. Dr Bini seems not to have appreciated that he and one of the sources for his statistical characterizations do not include the same breeds of dogs under the term “pit bull.” Dr Bini et al cite the 1982 Pediatrics study “Traumatic deaths from dog attacks in the United States” by L. E. Pinckney and L. A. Kennedy, when they write, “Between 1966 and 1980 . . . although 16 deaths were attributable to German Shepherd Dogs and only 6 were attributable to pit bulls, there were 74,723 registered German Shepherd Dogs and only 929 registered pit bulls.”
Dr Pinckney based his “pit bull” population number and the resulting “rate” or “highest number of deaths” on the total of 1976 American Kennel Club (AKC) registrations of “Bullterriers” (n = 929). By contrast, Dr Bini defines “pit bull” as American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. He does not include Bull Terriers.
Table 2: This table evidences an extremely problematic use of sources. I shall limit this discussion to the most grievous errors:
The authors fail to inform us where the data in column 1 (Breed) and column 2 (No. of dogs) originated. The authors describe Table 2 as “Adapted from Reference 14.” Reference 14 is an article in the periodical Municipal Lawyer. That article contains no tabular in-formation of any kind or nature.
On page 795, we find the following: “Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred . . . A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).”
Bini’s source used media accounts for the breed descriptions found in Table 2. Queries of the CDC database and state vital statistics reveal that from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, there were 101 dog bite related fatalities, involving at least 187 dogs. My findings, based on interviews with veterinarians, animal control, and police investigators, reveal that most of these dogs, however they may have been described in the media, were dogs of unknown pedigree. Only 24 of the 187 dogs can be described as purebred dogs, either on the basis of documented pedigree or other reasonable evidence. In light of a recent published study, (4) breed identifications of mixed breed dogs of unknown origin cannot be considered reliable, whoever made the identifications.
Table 2, Column 3:
Dr Bini et al have not totaled the registered dogs that satisfy their definition of “pit bull.”
The first breed listed in Table 2 is “pit bull,” with a total of 2239 registrations for 2007. The authors footnote that “the term pit
bull refers to dogs from the following breeds: American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier.”
The authors also footnote that “data presented only for dog breeds for which registration information is available from the American Kennel Club (AKC).”
Even as the authors use breed club registrations as a tool to analyze the US dog population—a practice with which most animal experts disagree—Dr Bini et al seem unaware that the most popular of the 3 breeds they define as “pit bull” (ie, American Pit Bull Terrier) is not recognized by the AKC.
American Pit Bull Terriers are registered by the United Kennel Club (UKC) or the American Dog Breeders Association. The UKC is the second largest breed registry in the United States, with 250,000 registrations annually. The American Pit Bull Terrier ranked as the second most registered breed with the UKC from 2005 through 2010.
Selective Use of Published and Unpublished Sources. There are approximately 25 to 30 dog bite related fatalities per year in the United States. With such a small sample, any errors made in the collection or reporting of such incidents is significant.
There are numerous errors in the source material used by Dr Bini concerning dog bite related fatalities. I list only a few. Additional case examples are available on request.
In addition to relying exclusively on news stories, Dr Bini’s source chose selectively among conflicting media accounts to extract “data.” Dr Bini’s source counts the following as “pit bull fatalities”:
1. Cause of death was not a result of dog bites: On February 9, 2007, James Chapple was attacked by 2 dogs identified by the me- dia as “pit bulls.” Mr Chapple received severe injuries but fully recovered and was discharged from the hospital. On May 17, 2007, Chapple was found dead in his bed. The Shelby County Medical Examiner (Case nos. 2007–1177) listed the cause of death as hypertensive and atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Dog bites were neither the cause nor a contributing factor in the death of Mr Chapple.
2. Unresolvable disagreement as to breed descriptor: On October 5, 2008, a 2 month old boy was killed by a dog. One media source reported the dog to be a “pit bull” on the basis that “neighbors believe the dog to be a pit bull.” Other news stories quoted the Hawaiian Humane Society, which had custody of the dog, which officially reported that the dog “was not a pit bull.” Honolulu Police Investigators list the dog as a “Sharpei mix” on their incident report. (Voith)
LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Annals of Surgery r Volume 255, Number 5, May 2012
Copyright © 2012 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins. Unauthorized reproduction of this article is prohibited.
www.annalsofsurgery.com | e11
Letter to the Editor
Annals of Surgery r Volume 255, Number 5, May 2012
The conclusions reported in a peer reviewed medical journal should rest on a foundation of valid data. It is imperative that authors consider all sources carefully and judiciously. Dr Bini and his colleagues would have been well advised to consult animal professionals on subject matter that was clearly outside their area of expertise.
Karen Delise, LVT
National Canine Research Council New Market, Maryland
REFERENCE
1. Delise K. Fatal Dog Attacks: The Stories Be- hind the Statistics. Manorville, NY: Anubis; 2002.
2. Delise K. The Pit Bull Placebo: The Media, Myths and Politics of Canine Aggression. Manorville, NY: Anubis; 2007.
3. Bini JK, Cohn SM, Acosta SM, et al. for the TRISAT Clinical Trials Group. Mortality, Maul- ing, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs. Ann Surg. 2011;253:791–797.
4. VoithVL,IngramE,MitsourasK,etal.Comparison of adoption agency breed identification and DNA breed identification of dogs. J Appl Anim Welf Sci. 2009;12:253–262.
∗Dr Marder is a graduate of the University of Penn- sylvania’s School of Veterinary Medicine, and she completed the University’s first behavior residency. She currently serves as Director of the Center for Shelter Dogs at the Animal Rescue League of Boston. She is also a dog fancier, who showed Australian terriers.
Disclosure: The author declares no conflicts of interest. Copyright ⃝C 2012 by Lippincott Williams & Wilkins ISSN: 0003-4932/12/25505-e11
DOI: 10.1097/SLA.0b013e318250c8f9
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May I remind you E-Kul, the last time I challenged you to a fight if you ever show up in the USA your promptly backed down once you realized I was serious?
What threat? I challenged you to throw some hands since you are always bragging about how you beat up bullies and how much of a real man you are. I am not forcing you to meet me and I am not trying to hunt you down. Once again you keep putting words into my mouth or twisting the meaning of what I wrote.
Nobody is twisting your words dickhead. You live in another country and you are challenging people to throw hands/ Are you 12 years old. And thanks for not forcing me to meet you, like you have the ability to do that. I imagine you have trouble forcing your cock to go hard.
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E-kul, this study was done by non-animal behaviorists. Hardly "highly qualified".
Let me pull an E-kul move here and post a wall of text and then sit back and await his meltdown.
Here is the rebuttal letter to the study you have such a hard on for. Sent to the editor of the peer reviewed journal you mention above:
Imprudent use of Unreliable Dog Bite Tabulations and Unpublished Sources
To the Editor:
"That will be the argument that a lot of people have, that it’s not the dog. It’s the owner. But I think you really have to throw the emotion out. Yeah, it’s emotional. But throw it away and let’s look at our data."
Dr John Bini, quoted in the Houston Chronicle, “Doctors Bare Grim Pit Bull Data,” May 8, 2011
When we write on a subject, emotional or otherwise, a decent respect for all concerned obligates us to make careful and judicious use of sources, and, as we would in any scientific endeavor, to be conservative in our pronouncements.
This has been my aim during the 20 years that I have researched and written about dog bite related fatalities. I have published 2 books on the subject: Fatal Dog Attacks: The Stories Behind the Statistics1 and The Pit Bull Placebo: The Media, Myths and Politics of Canine Aggression. (2)
On the basis of my experience with this issue, I am dismayed by the erroneous data, the use of questionable sources, and the lack of fact checking that characterizes Dr Bini’s article. (3)
Case Presentation. In the first line, Dr Bini writes, “An 11-month-old boy arrived at our level 1 trauma center after being mauled by 2 pit bulls.”
There is no documented evidence from any authority that either dog involved in this incident were “pit bulls.” To determine whether the breed attributed to these dogs could be visually substantiated by a recognized expert, I submitted photographs of both dogs to Dr Amy Marder, VMD, CAAB.∗ Dr Marder reported the breed(s) of dog could not be reasonably determined by visual identification.
Introduction. “Pit bull” is not a recognized breed of dog. Dr Bini seems not to have appreciated that he and one of the sources for his statistical characterizations do not include the same breeds of dogs under the term “pit bull.” Dr Bini et al cite the 1982 Pediatrics study “Traumatic deaths from dog attacks in the United States” by L. E. Pinckney and L. A. Kennedy, when they write, “Between 1966 and 1980 . . . although 16 deaths were attributable to German Shepherd Dogs and only 6 were attributable to pit bulls, there were 74,723 registered German Shepherd Dogs and only 929 registered pit bulls.”
Dr Pinckney based his “pit bull” population number and the resulting “rate” or “highest number of deaths” on the total of 1976 American Kennel Club (AKC) registrations of “Bullterriers” (n = 929). By contrast, Dr Bini defines “pit bull” as American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. He does not include Bull Terriers.
Table 2: This table evidences an extremely problematic use of sources. I shall limit this discussion to the most grievous errors:
The authors fail to inform us where the data in column 1 (Breed) and column 2 (No. of dogs) originated. The authors describe Table 2 as “Adapted from Reference 14.” Reference 14 is an article in the periodical Municipal Lawyer. That article contains no tabular in-formation of any kind or nature.
On page 795, we find the following: “Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred . . . A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks (Table 2).”
Bini’s source used media accounts for the breed descriptions found in Table 2. Queries of the CDC database and state vital statistics reveal that from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, there were 101 dog bite related fatalities, involving at least 187 dogs. My findings, based on interviews with veterinarians, animal control, and police investigators, reveal that most of these dogs, however they may have been described in the media, were dogs of unknown pedigree. Only 24 of the 187 dogs can be described as purebred dogs, either on the basis of documented pedigree or other reasonable evidence. In light of a recent published study, (4) breed identifications of mixed breed dogs of unknown origin cannot be considered reliable, whoever made the identifications.
Table 2, Column 3:
Dr Bini et al have not totaled the registered dogs that satisfy their definition of “pit bull.”
The first breed listed in Table 2 is “pit bull,” with a total of 2239 registrations for 2007. The authors footnote that “the term pit
bull refers to dogs from the following breeds: American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier.”
The authors also footnote that “data presented only for dog breeds for which registration information is available from the American Kennel Club (AKC).”
Even as the authors use breed club registrations as a tool to analyze the US dog population—a practice with which most animal experts disagree—Dr Bini et al seem unaware that the most popular of the 3 breeds they define as “pit bull” (ie, American Pit Bull Terrier) is not recognized by the AKC.
American Pit Bull Terriers are registered by the United Kennel Club (UKC) or the American Dog Breeders Association. The UKC is the second largest breed registry in the United States, with 250,000 registrations annually. The American Pit Bull Terrier ranked as the second most registered breed with the UKC from 2005 through 2010.
Selective Use of Published and Unpublished Sources. There are approximately 25 to 30 dog bite related fatalities per year in the United States. With such a small sample, any errors made in the collection or reporting of such incidents is significant.
There are numerous errors in the source material used by Dr Bini concerning dog bite related fatalities. I list only a few. Additional case examples are available on request.
In addition to relying exclusively on news stories, Dr Bini’s source chose selectively among conflicting media accounts to extract “data.” Dr Bini’s source counts the following as “pit bull fatalities”:
1. Cause of death was not a result of dog bites: On February 9, 2007, James Chapple was attacked by 2 dogs identified by the me- dia as “pit bulls.” Mr Chapple received severe injuries but fully recovered and was discharged from the hospital. On May 17, 2007, Chapple was found dead in his bed. The Shelby County Medical Examiner (Case nos. 2007–1177) listed the cause of death as hypertensive and atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Dog bites were neither the cause nor a contributing factor in the death of Mr Chapple.
2. Unresolvable disagreement as to breed descriptor: On October 5, 2008, a 2 month old boy was killed by a dog. One media source reported the dog to be a “pit bull” on the basis that “neighbors believe the dog to be a pit bull.” Other news stories quoted the Hawaiian Humane Society, which had custody of the dog, which officially reported that the dog “was not a pit bull.” Honolulu Police Investigators list the dog as a “Sharpei mix” on their incident report. (Voith)
LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Annals of Surgery r Volume 255, Number 5, May 2012
Copyright © 2012 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins. Unauthorized reproduction of this article is prohibited.
www.annalsofsurgery.com | e11
Letter to the Editor
Annals of Surgery r Volume 255, Number 5, May 2012
The conclusions reported in a peer reviewed medical journal should rest on a foundation of valid data. It is imperative that authors consider all sources carefully and judiciously. Dr Bini and his colleagues would have been well advised to consult animal professionals on subject matter that was clearly outside their area of expertise.
Karen Delise, LVT
National Canine Research Council New Market, Maryland
REFERENCE
1. Delise K. Fatal Dog Attacks: The Stories Be- hind the Statistics. Manorville, NY: Anubis; 2002.
2. Delise K. The Pit Bull Placebo: The Media, Myths and Politics of Canine Aggression. Manorville, NY: Anubis; 2007.
3. Bini JK, Cohn SM, Acosta SM, et al. for the TRISAT Clinical Trials Group. Mortality, Maul- ing, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs. Ann Surg. 2011;253:791–797.
4. VoithVL,IngramE,MitsourasK,etal.Comparison of adoption agency breed identification and DNA breed identification of dogs. J Appl Anim Welf Sci. 2009;12:253–262.
∗Dr Marder is a graduate of the University of Penn- sylvania’s School of Veterinary Medicine, and she completed the University’s first behavior residency. She currently serves as Director of the Center for Shelter Dogs at the Animal Rescue League of Boston. She is also a dog fancier, who showed Australian terriers.
Disclosure: The author declares no conflicts of interest. Copyright ⃝C 2012 by Lippincott Williams & Wilkins ISSN: 0003-4932/12/25505-e11
DOI: 10.1097/SLA.0b013e318250c8f9
Karen's argument in her rebuttal is this:
1) Mis-identification of breed.
2) Incorrect Pitbull Population
3) The media as a source of information is problematic
1) The first argument regarding mis-indentification of the Pitbull Breed has been argued and lost in every Courtroom across America including the Supreme Court. Fancy believing that of the over 400 breeds of dog available, that identifying a breed of dog is impossible. They actually believe this. How anybody can not see through this is ridiculous. It never occurs to them that if a non-pitbull can be confused as a Pitbull, then a Pitbull could surely be identified as a non-pitbull, So for every non-Pitbull wrongly mis-identified as a Pitbull there could be a Pitbull wrongly identified as a non-Pitbull. So by using their very own argument, there could in fact be more Pitbull attacks than cited due to the many Pitbull attacks where the Pitbull was mis-identified and blamed on a non-Pitbull breed. And this is probably more than likely, because due to many localities having strict legislation regarding Pitbulls, many Pitbull Owners claim their Pitbull is in fact a non-pitbull. So the misidentification argument could be used to offer even more damning evidence against Pitbulls. It is more than likely Pitbulls are being misidentified as a non-pitbull breed rather than the other way around. But going by their ridiculous argument only Pitbulls can be misidentified, every other breed is easily recognised. Their logic beggars belief. They have been trying this nonsense for years. Here's what the courts had to say about their ridiculousness:
"The Court concludes that the definitions of a Pit Bull Terrier in this Ordinance are not unconstitutionally vague. An ordinary person could easily refer to a dictionary, a dog buyer's guide or any dog book for guidance and instruction; also, the American Kennel Club and United Kennel Club have set forth standards for Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers to help determine whether a dog is described by any one of them. While it may be true that some definitions contain descriptions which lack "mathematical certainty," such precision and definiteness is not essential to constitutionality."
2) Her argument regarding pitbull population is another desperate attempt, as it stands it is widely accepted that about 5% of the dog population are Pitbulls and that over 50% of the fatalities are from pitbull attack. Karen's desperate wish is that she can somehow close that extreme gap by somehow prooving that their are a lot more Pitbulls not yet accounted for in population statistics. Ohter studies have used different methodology than relying on Kennel Club registrations, such as frequent surveys of regionally balanced samples of classified ads of dogs for sale, and they have also come up with the figure of 5%. If KAREN has a more reliable way to do a census on Pitbulls, she should simply put that forward. (Surely she doesn't think she is going to show that 50% of the fatalities is because 1 in every two dogs is a pitbull but then again, maybe she does, Karen is a true Nutter).
Karen also tries to cleverly deceive by suggesting their are unaccounted for 'Pitbulls' because the AKC doesn't acknowledge the breed. What she fails to point out, that the UKC certainly recognises the breed and that the American Pit Bull Terrier can be dual registered with both the UKC & the AKC. Whereas the UKC registers them as an American Pit Bull Terrier the AKC registers them as an American Staffordshire Terrier. So the supposedly missing pitbulls are accounted for by including the AKC's registrations of the American Staffordshire Terrier under the umbrella of Pitbulls. This is not uncommon knowledge, and all fanciers acknowledge that the American Pit Bull Terrier & The American Staffordshire are virtually the same breed and are aware of the ability to dual register their dog.
3) Her accusation that media is a problematic source is ridiculous, where does she want the data to come from. This is a persistent allegation by pit bull terrier advocates that the use of media accounts as a data source is somehow suspect. In reality it is a very thorough source, media coverage incorporates information from police reports, animal control reports, witness accounts, victim accounts in many instances, and hospital reports. Media coverage is, in short, multi-sourced, unlike reports from any single source.
4) The few examples she does give are quite disturbing in themselves, the case of James Chapelle, who endured the most brutal of Pitbull attacks and died a few months later and then they challenge that he didn't die from dog attack. This poor man simply got of the bus when set upon by two large pitbulls. The attack was so savage, his left arm had to be amputated below the elbow, and doctors weren't sure if he would ever regain full use of his right arm. The victim spent the remaining few months in and out of hospital, but never fully recovered and died. They then go on to say cause of death has been misattributed as the cause of death was listed as hypertensive and atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Something that was exacerbated by having limbs amputated and his many other serious injuries. Having a pre existing condition does not let an attacker of the hook, to suggest that a victim was going to die shortly anyway of their other complications is another insight into the sociopathic mind of the Pitbull Nutter. For Karen to even use this as an example of how Pitbulls are not a problem really does boggle the mind, and give you an idea of how desperate they are.
Another case from the study she cites is is actually the case of 7 month old Izaiah Gregory Cox. (The study claimed the boy was 11 months old, but this was a mistake) It is the case of a young boy brutally killed by his grandparents Pitbulls. Once again Karen claims the dogs weren't Pitbulls, yet every eyewitness to the attack, including the neighbours called the dogs Pitbulls, Animal CONTROL, The Police and The LAW called them Pitbulls, but KAREN has some deluded belief that only she can identify Pitbulls. Karen sincerely believes there are only a handful of qualified people who can identify a Pitbull. As I showed earlier, this claim has been dealt with by every Court in America, all dismissing it as nonsense, and not only that, suggesting that not only is an expert NOT required to identify a pitbull, any laymen can do it with the right information.
Even if there are a few mistakes in relation to the studies data, the overall data is so overwhelming, so incriminating, that the conclusion is obvious to any reasonable person. The persistent allegation by pit bull terrier advocates that pit bulls are overrepresented because of misidentification or because “pit bull” is, according to them, a generic term covering several similar types of dog. However, the frequency of pit bull attacks among these worst-in-10,000 cases is so disproportionate that even if half of the attacks in the pit bull category were misattributed, or even if the pit bull category was split three ways, attacks by pit bulls and their closest relatives would still outnumber attacks by any other breed.
I will finish with this sentiment expressed in the study "Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to December 22, 2009
"Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price."
Karen Delise simply doesn't have the data or the evidence that she claims she does, if she did she would simply put it forward or produce a study of her own. Karen makes a lot of claims with no verifiable data, and ironically, that is what she accuses others of. I don't suspect you will read my post, but I do this for those who actually want credible information, and not the biased self serving opinion of Pitbull Advocates sponsored by dog fighters. And to suggest that Surgeons are not qualified to comment on serious injuries and yet an animal behaviourist is, smacks of the arrogance that Karen is renowned for. Not only is she a self proclaimed 'Pitbull expert' she challenges surgeons and suggests she is better equipped to analyse injuries than they are. All from photographs I might add. Nobody really takes Karen seriously for these type of reasons. Who do you think is qualified to talk about the injuries and fatalities caused by Dogs, if not the medical professionals who treat the victims, then who? The implication is absurd to put it mildly.
Once again, for those interested in the subject, here are some links to relevant reading material on the matter.
You can read Dr Alan Becks deposition here: http://legal.pblnn.com/images/Denverpleadings/alanbeckdepo.pdf (http://legal.pblnn.com/images/Denverpleadings/alanbeckdepo.pdf)
You can read the study Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011 here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSba3p4NW5CT09ZX0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSba3p4NW5CT09ZX0E/edit?usp=sharing)
You can download the Interview with Gary Wilkes an experienced pitbull Trainer here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbdzhIVTdwUVFkUFk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbdzhIVTdwUVFkUFk/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read the study "Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998" here https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbU1JHWGZPWHZ3a0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbU1JHWGZPWHZ3a0E/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read Adam Greenbaum, Pkastic Surgeon Interview in relation to Pitbull Injuries here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbMUR0YzZvbHFnNWc/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbMUR0YzZvbHFnNWc/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read the study "Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to December 26, 2011" here https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbRDFTTmtyWEFiWTQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbRDFTTmtyWEFiWTQ/edit?usp=sharing)
You can read the study "Aggressive Behavior in Adopted Dogs (Canis Familiaris) that Passed a Temperament Test" here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbNnpieXl4Qmotd1E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TQhn0TrPSbNnpieXl4Qmotd1E/edit?usp=sharing)
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E-kul, why do you think these "highly qualified" "surgeons, academics, and medical professionals" didn't address Ms. Delise as you have just now in their letter? Do you to think their reply was pathetic?
Rather than rebutting Ms. Delise's letter here on a bodybuilding forum I would suggest that you submit it to the peer reviewed journal the good surgeons and Ms. Delise did.
Why have you not done this? You have stated that this is what you do, right?
You say:
....I spend my spare time advocating and lobbying for serious legislation regarding dangerous dogs.
Yet it seems to all of us that you spend your spare time here, on getbig, typing wall after wall of text, arguing over grammar and name calling everyone.
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E-kul, why do you think these "highly qualified" "surgeons, academics, and medical professionals" didn't address Ms. Delise as you have just now in their letter? Do you to think their reply was pathetic?
Rather than rebutting Ms. Delise's letter here on a bodybuilding forum I would suggest that you submit it to the peer reviewed journal the good surgeons and Ms. Delise did.
Why have you not done this? You have stated that this is what you do, right?
You say:
Yet it seems to all of us you spend your spare time here on get big typing wall after wall of text, arguing over grammar and name calling.
The fact they don't respond is an indication of how little credibility they give Karen. Why would they even bother giving Karen any credit, her bias and false claims are obvious for anyone who even investigates. If they thought Karen had even the remotest of chances of discrediting there study, they would be all over it. But as it stands, any layman can see right through it. And you are right, I could send a letter and rebutt hers, but for now I don't for two reasons, for one I live in Australia and two, I also think her rebuttal isn't even worth crediting by acknowledging it. Also I must add, other professionals have already rebutted her in Court, people like Dr Alan beck, whose deposition I posted a link to earlier. Dr Alan Beck has been instrumental in countering Karen's arguments and securing the BSL in the state of Denver.
You can read Dr Alan Becks deposition here: http://legal.pblnn.com/images/Denverpleadings/alanbeckdepo.pdf (http://legal.pblnn.com/images/Denverpleadings/alanbeckdepo.pdf)
I did recently write a letter to a University here in Australia, rebutting a PhD candidate by the name of Ms Linda Watson who is currently researching a PhD on Dog Bite Injuries. Linda likes to do the occasional media report offering up her credentials for everyone to marvel over while claiming how wonderful pitbulls are. When PhD candidates put their name to an article, the University requires that they agree to a DISCLOSURE STATEMENT clarifying the following, in this case, Linda Watson agreed that she "does not work for, consult to, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has no relevant affiliations.". But as it turned out Linda Watson is/was the PRESIDENT of Endangered Dog Breeds Association of Australia that openly promotes a Pitbull agenda. When I pointed this conflict of Interest out to the University, they responded very quickly and are taking the matter very seriously. I haven't yet followed up on the matter, but this type of deception is not appreciated by Universities. They have expressed such concern over the matter, they have politely asked me for now, to keep the matter to myself.
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The fact they don't respond is an indication of how little credibility they give Karen. Why would they even bother giving Karen any credit, her bias and false claims are obvious for anyone who even investigates. If they thought Karen had even the remotest of chances of discrediting there study, they would be all over it. But as it stands, any layman can see right through it.
But they DID reply to her letter and it was published in the same journal. I'm quite surprised you did not know this.
In their reply, there is not one mention of her "bias" OR "false claims". In fact they state that Ms. Delise "correctly points out that there are significant discrepancies regarding what constitutes a "pit bull" among violent dog breeds."
They then go off on some tangential subjects not mentioned in Ms. Delise's letter. Their reply to Ms. Delise was hardly "all over it", as you say.
Knowing this, it seems as though you just fabricated your first paragraph to suit your need.
And you are right, I could send a letter and rebutt hers, but for now I don't for two reasons, for one I live in Australia and two, I also think her rebuttal isn't even worth crediting by acknowledging it. Also I must add, other professionals have already rebutted her in Court, people like Dr Alan beck, whose deposition I posted a link to earlier. Dr Alan Beck has been instrumental in countering Karen's arguments and securing the BSL in the state of Denver.
You can read Dr Alan Becks deposition here: http://legal.pblnn.com/images/Denverpleadings/alanbeckdepo.pdf (http://legal.pblnn.com/images/Denverpleadings/alanbeckdepo.pdf)
Thank you, I will read that link when time permits. I assure you.
I did recently write a letter to a University here in Australia, rebutting a PhD candidate by the name of Ms Linda Watson who is currently researching a PhD on Dog Bite Injuries. Linda likes to do the occasional media report offering up her credentials for everyone to marvel over while claiming how wonderful pitbulls are. When PhD candidates put their name to an article, the University requires that they agree to a DISCLOSURE STATEMENT clarifying the following, in this case, Linda Watson agreed that she "does not work for, consult to, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has no relevant affiliations.". But as it turned out Linda Watson is/was the PRESIDENT of Endangered Dog Breeds Association of Australia that openly promotes a Pitbull agenda. When I pointed this conflict of Interest out to the University, they responded very quickly and are taking the matter very seriously. I haven't yet followed up on the matter, but this type of deception is not appreciated by Universities. They have expressed such concern over the matter, they have politely asked me for now, to keep the matter to myself.
Care to share this letter with us?
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But they DID reply to her letter and it was published in the same journal. I'm quite surprised you did not know this.
In their reply, there is not one mention of her "bias" OR "false claims". In fact they state that Ms. Delise "correctly points out that there are significant discrepancies regarding what constitutes a "pit bull" among violent dog breeds."
They then go off on some tangential subjects not mentioned in Ms. Delise's letter. Their reply to Ms. Delise was hardly "all over it", as you say.
Knowing this, it seems as though you just fabricated your first paragraph to suit your need.
Thank you, I will read that link when time permits. I assure you.
Care to share this letter with us?
DR Alan Becks deposition is a good read. I have read the entire document. It is quite long and tedious at times. The lawyer arguing against BSL is very good, the lawyer is very clever and asks very tricky questions. As a Pitbull Supporter you would probably be able to use the anti BSL lawyers arguments with good effect on those not well versed on the topic. You must keep in mind, I am just someone who has survived a serious Pitbull attack and has researched the topic thoroughly so that I can argue for more effective legislation regarding dangerous animals being kept as pets. I don't consider myself an expert, just someone who simply doesn't wish to experience such a thing again, nor do I want other people too. If I can minimise or even prevent other people experiencing what I did, it will be worth it.
Regarding the Universities letter, I will go through my files and try and find it, it needs to be scanned and converted to a PDF document. I will eventually get around to this for you.
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But they DID reply to her letter and it was published in the same journal. I'm quite surprised you did not know this.
In their reply, there is not one mention of her "bias" OR "false claims". In fact they state that Ms. Delise "correctly points out that there are significant discrepancies regarding what constitutes a "pit bull" among violent dog breeds."
They then go off on some tangential subjects not mentioned in Ms. Delise's letter. Their reply to Ms. Delise was hardly "all over it", as you say.
I did not know they had responded to her rebuttal, do you care to share it. Like I said, I pay little attention to people like Karen Delise, the Pitbull advocates arguments are tedious and repetitive, and no matter how many times they get discredited, they still use the same arguments. I actually find a lot of their arguments offensive and borderline sociopathic. Karen is notorious for blaming victims, and has said quite openly that she doesn't fear the so called tabboo of doing so. Karen once even blamed the weather for a spate of serious pitbull Attacks, this is how far she will go to avoid ever blaming a Pitbull.
I honestly view serious pitbull Nutters in the same way I do paedophiles who argue against age of consent laws so they can molest children. I offer this analogy to give you a frame of reference, as I am sure you feel the same way about paedophilia as most people. So with that in mind, you will understand why I don't give much attention to people like Karen, it's because I find them and their cause perverse and their arguments so overtly self serving and harmful to others, it is enough to make any community minded and decent person feel physically ill.
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Nobody is twisting your words dickhead. You live in another country and you are challenging people to throw hands/ Are you 12 years old. And thanks for not forcing me to meet you, luke you have the ability to do that. I ikagine you have trouble forcing your cock to go hard.
I will add that to your list of zero arguments put forward in this thread. I didn't find that stuff on the Internet, they are created by me. I don't know if you realise, but I spend my spare time advocating and lobbying for serious legislation regarding dangerous dogs. Like I said, I deal with Pit Nutters on a daily basis, I have seen and heard it all. I have received more death threats from Pitbull Nutters than I can count. And do you think you are the first tough guy to threaten me, I find your threats laughable but not surprising considering you have ZERO argument. I will add that to the long list of threats I have received. After tangling with a couple of real life Pitbulls, I find the weaklings attracted to them about as intimidating as a class of kindergarten children.
Yes you did. You stated that I threatened you and after I corrected you proceeded to ignore my correction of your lie/fabrication and insult me. Funny you are the one who is usually bragging about getting into fights and or punishing bullies yet here you dismiss your own behavior as childish ( "are you 12 years old" ).
Nobody is twisting your words dickhead. You live in another country and you are challenging people to throw hands/ Are you 12 years old. And thanks for not forcing me to meet you, luke you have the ability to do that. I ikagine you have trouble forcing your cock to go hard.
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Yes you did. You stated that I threatened you and after I corrected you proceeded to ignore my correction of your lie/fabrication and insult me. Funny you are the one who is usually bragging about getting into fights and or punishing bullies yet here you dismiss your own behavior as childish ( "are you 12 years old" ).
You must have me mistaken for someone else, I have never bragged about getting into fights. I am a PACIFIST, but I don't believe in being some Morons doormat, and if put into a corner I am prepared to fight. And you do realise telling someone you want to fight them given the opportunity is a THREAT. It is a communicated intent to inflict harm or loss on another person. It comes as no surprise to me that you are attracted to PITBULLS.
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I've been around pitbulls my whole life. They are great great dogs, especially with children, with outstanding temperaments, the name "nanny dog" is very fitting.