I don't follow the Russia/Georgia mess much, but...

[big L dawg]

what about russia/georgia?

[240 is Back]

Yes, I've heard quite a lot about him and I disagree with the majority of the positions I have seen or heard from him.  Although, he's certainly more hawkish than most Dems, which I like.

I'm not so much worried about what Obama would do outside of the US as much as inside of it.  I don't understand why you claim to be conservative yet you seemingly defend a man you MUST know stands for the destruction of almost every conservative principle.

I'm about a strong national defense, but strong rights at home as well.

Bush turned into a liberal the moment he signed the patriot act.
Then he borrowed 5 trillion dollars.  Lib again.

Mccain is trying to defend the positions to keep his donors rolling in, but I can't see how any responsible adult can stand there and say borrowing a trillion dolalrs a year and keeping taxes low is a great idea.  As a guy with an MBA, I see it as a horrible business model. Just horrible. ANY other business would go under by now, with that kind of borrowing and minimal profits.

It's irresponsible.  Obama is going to tax like a buitch, and yeah, it's gonna suck.  But mccain is gonna keep spending likea d runken sailor and borrowing nonstop, and not taxing to pay for it.


Neither guy is right.  personally I'd prefer if we're gonna blow all this $ (which both men say we'll do), we'd better pay for it.  Also, obama went to germany and told the world it's time THEY start chipping in on the war in afghanistan.  Mccain won't do that.  Obama is going to smile, make friends, and tell the leader they need to help shoulder the costs of this war.  That's a smart thing to do.

[big L dawg]

I'm about a strong national defense, but strong rights at home as well.

Bush turned into a liberal the moment he signed the patriot act.
Then he borrowed 5 trillion dollars.  Lib again.

Mccain is trying to defend the positions to keep his donors rolling in, but I can't see how any responsible adult can stand there and say borrowing a trillion dolalrs a year and keeping taxes low is a great idea.  As a guy with an MBA, I see it as a horrible business model. Just horrible. ANY other business would go under by now, with that kind of borrowing and minimal profits.

It's irresponsible.  Obama is going to tax like a buitch, and yeah, it's gonna suck.  But mccain is gonna keep spending likea d runken sailor and borrowing nonstop, and not taxing to pay for it.


Neither guy is right.  personally I'd prefer if we're gonna blow all this $ (which both men say we'll do), we'd better pay for it.  Also, obama went to germany and told the world it's time THEY start chipping in on the war in afghanistan.  Mccain won't do that.  Obama is going to smile, make friends, and tell the leader they need to help shoulder the costs of this war.  That's a smart thing to do.

great post

[Brixtonbulldog]

I'm about a strong national defense, but strong rights at home as well.

Bush turned into a liberal the moment he signed the patriot act.
Then he borrowed 5 trillion dollars.  Lib again.

Mccain is trying to defend the positions to keep his donors rolling in, but I can't see how any responsible adult can stand there and say borrowing a trillion dolalrs a year and keeping taxes low is a great idea.  As a guy with an MBA, I see it as a horrible business model. Just horrible. ANY other business would go under by now, with that kind of borrowing and minimal profits.

It's irresponsible.  Obama is going to tax like a buitch, and yeah, it's gonna suck.  But mccain is gonna keep spending likea d runken sailor and borrowing nonstop, and not taxing to pay for it.


Neither guy is right.  personally I'd prefer if we're gonna blow all this $ (which both men say we'll do), we'd better pay for it.  Also, obama went to germany and told the world it's time THEY start chipping in on the war in afghanistan.  Mccain won't do that.  Obama is going to smile, make friends, and tell the leader they need to help shoulder the costs of this war.  That's a smart thing to do.

Calling Bush a lib is ridiculous.  I can't understand why you're so quick to put formerly conservative politicians with SOME liberal bad habits on the same line with outright socialists.  You're so quick to blur the lines that I think you've proven yourself to be more liberal than even you would like to admit (or will ever).  Being 50% liberal by policy platform IS drastically different than being 100% liberal despite what you seem to believe.

The debt must be taken care of in the long run, fine.  Obama will adopt every socialist policy in the books, drastically increase taxes, and grow the gov't.  McCain MAY do the same or MAY NOT.  Wouldn't you rather pull for the potential?  You're guaranteed institutionalized wealth redistribution, punishment for profits, and bigger gov't with Obama and you sit here to defend those very things that destroy prosperity.  The fact that you actually believe half of what he says is hilarious. 

You blame the gov't for spending like it does yet instead of holding politicians accountable and pulling for people to vote more based on taxes in the upcoming years you would rather just let the biggest form of bureaucracy tax the hell of us to pay for an already inflated mess of waste and gov't irresponsibility.

[big L dawg]

this is the worst 8 year run in presidential history McCain Will continue that trend.

[Slapper]

I leave for 5 minutes and the thread goes down the drain.

[Brixtonbulldog]

this is the worst 8 year run in presidential history McCain Will continue that trend.

Not at all.  He may be the most unpopular president at the moment and the most divisive but he isn't the worst.  Two years of a democratic congress has done more damage and/or accomplished less than eight years of Bush.

Ten years from now we'll see what people's opinion is and how his policies set in the long run.  I think it will be mostly positive.

[240 is Back]

Two years of a democratic congress has done more damage and/or accomplished less than eight years of Bush.

Can you quantify this in any way?

or just kinda a gut feeling thing?

[Brixtonbulldog]

Can you quantify this in any way?

or just kinda a gut feeling thing?

Promised to fix gas.. did nothing.

Promised to fix economy.. bailed out homeowners who shouldn't have been bailed.

Promised to do something about debt.. voted for most of the spending along with the people they blame for it.

Same story on border security, etc.  It's a complete waste.  I've never seen a bunch of people whose only concern is re-election.

[big L dawg]

Not at all.  He may be the most unpopular president at the moment and the most divisive but he isn't the worst.  Two years of a democratic congress has done more damage and/or accomplished less than eight years of Bush.

Ten years from now we'll see what people's opinion is and how his policies set in the long run.  I think it will be mostly positive.

Bush's presidential term mostly positive huh.your delusional!

[Hugo Chavez]

Not at all.  He may be the most unpopular president at the moment and the most divisive but he isn't the worst.  Two years of a democratic congress has done more damage and/or accomplished less than eight years of Bush.

Ten years from now we'll see what people's opinion is and how his policies set in the long run.  I think it will be mostly positive.

You sure show your age on this reply

[Decker]

Promised to fix gas.. did nothing.

Promised to fix economy.. bailed out homeowners who shouldn't have been bailed.

Promised to do something about debt.. voted for most of the spending along with the people they blame for it.

Same story on border security, etc.  It's a complete waste.  I've never seen a bunch of people whose only concern is re-election.

The democrats utterly failed on Iraq.

It's the Iraq failure that undercut their integrity.  The Dems took the majority in Congress b/c of that issue and they failed to end the war.

Bush's run has been a failure....doubled the national debt, the single biggest foreign policy blunder in history re Iraq, and he helped enable the mortgage scandal by killing state oversight of mortgage practices. 

Any way you slice that, it comes up failure.

[Brixtonbulldog]

he helped enable the mortgage scandal by killing state oversight of mortgage practices. 

Right, because the gov't has to regulate everything. 

The mortgage crisis was brought on by people who couldn't afford the home they purchased and banks dumb enough to lend them the money knowing they couldn't afford it.  The gov'ts only failure would be bailing these idiots out. 

Only a lib would blame something like that on the gov't.   

[blinky]

anybody see last week when georgia and russia played each other in beach volleyball? how awkward must that have been

[Decker]

Right, because the gov't has to regulate everything. 

The mortgage crisis was brought on by people who couldn't afford the home they purchased and banks dumb enough to lend them the money knowing they couldn't afford it.  The gov'ts only failure would be bailing these idiots out. 

Only a lib would blame something like that on the gov't.   

Who's holding the greedy borrowers harmless?  You erroneously oversimplify the problem by acknowledging only one aspect of the problem.  The Bush people preempted state oversight laws with federal oversight laws and left those laws unenforced so that the prison guard was removed from guarding the prison.  I guess that's free market faith.

Only a rightwinger would decry gov. as hopelessly incompetent while tacitly bowing before government inaction benefiting business interests. 

[youandme]

anybody see last week when georgia and russia played each other in beach volleyball? how awkward must that have been

nah I only saw last night where Georgia played US

[240 is Back]

nah I only saw last night where Georgia played US

Did Biden stop by to give the Georgia team homemade chocolate chip cookies?

[Brixtonbulldog]

Who's holding the greedy borrowers harmless?  You erroneously oversimplify the problem by acknowledging only one aspect of the problem.  The Bush people preempted state oversight laws with federal oversight laws and left those laws unenforced so that the prison guard was removed from guarding the prison.  I guess that's free market faith.

Only a rightwinger would decry gov. as hopelessly incompetent while tacitly bowing before government inaction benefiting business interests. 

Your comment was just another thing you could try to twist and blame on Bush.  The gov't is not the answer for everything and doesn't have to regulate everything.  The idiots shouldn't have gotten themselves into loans they couldn't afford and the banks bit the bullet for taking the risk.  People and have to take responsibility for their stupidity in a free market, not depend of the gov't.  If that's what you want go live in Europe or anywhere that is even more socialist but stop trying to tax, regulate, manipulate a proven and superior economic system in capitalism.

Only a liberal would blame all those but the people actually responsible.

[Decker]

Your comment was just another thing you could try to twist and blame on Bush.  The gov't is not the answer for everything and doesn't have to regulate everything.  The idiots shouldn't have gotten themselves into loans they couldn't afford and the banks bit the bullet for taking the risk.  People and have to take responsibility for their stupidity in a free market, not depend of the gov't.  If that's what you want go live in Europe or anywhere that is even more socialist but stop trying to tax, regulate, manipulate a proven and superior economic system in capitalism.

Only a liberal would blame all those but the people actually responsible.

You do know that our 'Free Market' is moderated by governnmental regulation b/c laissez faire economics does not work.  It kills competition.  Without government oversight of the economy, the US would turn into a 3rd world country of Ultra Rich owners and plebian workers. 

Look at how Bush's policies of deregulation, unenforced regulation and making the US federal government a tool of big business have widened the economic inequality of our country to the extent not seen since the Gilded Age.

Are you aware that Big Business in america loves Big Government?  They only piss and moan when regulation becomes an inconvenience...like the regulatory oversight of unethical lending practices.  I notice when governmental R&D is socialized to the benefit of Big Business or no-bid contracts for substandard work are handed out, Big Business is all smiles and Big government is just great.

The people taking advantage of 'Big Socialized Government' have promulgated rhetoric of the superiority of the "Free Market" when it only suits their own interests.

[Brixtonbulldog]

You do know that our 'Free Market' is moderated by governnmental regulation b/c laissez faire economics does not work.  It kills competition.  Without government oversight of the economy, the US would turn into a 3rd world country of Ultra Rich owners and plebian workers. 

In a complete lack of gov't I would agree, but our free market allows for minimal gov't intervention in order to prevent that.  MINIMAL

Look at how Bush's policies of deregulation, unenforced regulation and making the US federal government a tool of big business have widened the economic inequality of our country to the extent not seen since the Gilded Age.

You're still overreaching to put the blame on his admin.  Taxing the shit out of American business, raising the minimum wage too high and too quickly, and giving almost every business based in the US good reasons to move job elsewhere have been more responsible for that gap than anything else.  And guess which side of congress that falls to.

Are you aware that Big Business in america loves Big Government?  They only piss and moan when regulation becomes an inconvenience...like the regulatory oversight of unethical lending practices.  I notice when governmental R&D is socialized to the benefit of Big Business or no-bid contracts for substandard work are handed out, Big Business is all smiles and Big government is just great.

Big business loves state-owned economic forces?  Big business loves regulation?  Your argument is 100% backwards on the taxes issue alone.

The people taking advantage of 'Big Socialized Government' have promulgated rhetoric of the superiority of the "Free Market" when it only suits their own interests.

You're right.. god forbid anyone, from individual citizens to private companies, get to look out for themselves and make decisions that benefit themselves.  That's what we have gov't for.. how silly of me. 

[Decker]

....

You're still overreaching to put the blame on his admin.  Taxing the shit out of American business, raising the minimum wage too high and too quickly, and giving almost every business based in the US good reasons to move job elsewhere have been more responsible for that gap than anything else.  And guess which side of congress that falls to.

Any economic or regulatory obligation to big business is too cumbersome for these guys.  As far as taxing the shit out of American business, corporate tax rates for US businesses are not out of the norm comparatively speaking.

Big Business will move jobs to places where the bottom line can be improved.  Globalization facilitates this race to the bottom for worker wages, environmental protections and quality of life.  What I really find appalling are these companies that keep their business in the country but reincorporate in another country to save on taxes.  That saves on their tax bill but they are using American infrastructure without paying for it.  That's what business does.  The rise of corporate monoliths will destroy this country someday.  Why?  At some point, it will be profitable to do so.

Big business loves state-owned economic forces?  Big business loves regulation?  Your argument is 100% backwards on the taxes issue alone.

When governmental assets are given or used to bolster Big Business, I think you'd be hardpressed to find one single businessman that would refuse.  Why is that 100% backwards?

You're right.. god forbid anyone, from individual citizens to private companies, get to look out for themselves and make decisions that benefit themselves.  That's what we have gov't for.. how silly of me. 

Businesses already act in self interest for their own benefit.  Sometimes that action is detrimental the market, the consumer or the environment.  The free market is never free and if the US wants to preserve its way of life, we need referees (oversight agencies) to make sure the rules of the game aren't violated (regulations).

[Brixtonbulldog]

Any economic or regulatory obligation to big business is too cumbersome for these guys.  As far as taxing the shit out of American business, corporate tax rates for US businesses are not out of the norm comparatively speaking.

Big Business will move jobs to places where the bottom line can be improved.  Globalization facilitates this race to the bottom for worker wages, environmental protections and quality of life.  What I really find appalling are these companies that keep their business in the country but reincorporate in another country to save on taxes.  That saves on their tax bill but they are using American infrastructure without paying for it.  That's what business does.  The rise of corporate monoliths will destroy this country someday.  Why?  At some point, it will be profitable to do so.
When governmental assets are given or used to bolster Big Business, I think you'd be hardpressed to find one single businessman that would refuse.  Why is that 100% backwards?
Businesses already act in self interest for their own benefit.  Sometimes that action is detrimental the market, the consumer or the environment.  The free market is never free and if the US wants to preserve its way of life, we need referees (oversight agencies) to make sure the rules of the game aren't violated (regulations).

I totally disagree with everything you said and with good reason..

..but I just don't have time to argue anymore and we both know neither of us is changing the others mind.

I'll go convince some swing voters.. ttyl.

[Hugo Chavez]

jesus... can you guys please look at where the thread started, look at the title and the initial post and explain why the fuck the topic landed completely unrelated.  I swear to god so many threads are ending up like this.  Maybe, just maybe, when we feel like deviating so far from the thread topic, we should just start a new fucking thread.

[big L dawg]

I totally disagree with everything you said and with good reason..

..but I just don't have time to argue anymore and we both know neither of us is changing the others mind.

I'll go convince some swing voters.. ttyl.

i hope your getting paid for all this campaign for mccain

[Brixtonbulldog]

i hope your getting paid for all this campaign for mccain

No.

But he won't tax the shit outta me just to inflate gov't (and possibly fund reparations) so it might work out for me anyway.