Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Howard on December 29, 2005, 02:25:04 PM
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A good analogy on this issue is bench pressing with high tech bench shirt vs without.
One top guy is Scott Mendelson who can bench a bit over 700 raw but can do a good 200 lbs more with the shirt. Therefor we can conclude a really top guy can expect 20-25% more wt in the shirt.
I would be interested in what is the actual size difference on drugs vs natural.
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I would say about 20%
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I would say about 20%
40-50%
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-32.88% EXACTLY
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I would say about 20%
I think its close to that.
Maybe 20-30 % with exceptions.
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That seems pretty high of a %. That means a 190 lb natural could weigh 350 or more on drugs ???
190 X 50% = 95 lbs
95 + 190 = 285
not sure where 350 lbs came from as that would be closer to 84%
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That seems pretty high of a %. That means a 190 lb natural could weigh 350 or more on drugs ???
I’m not just thinking of bodyweight, bench press or things of that sort. I’m thinking of ALL the things that ALL supplements add to the contest physuque. If they had to rely simply on food and no supplements of ANY kind--even diuretics and similar products they would look very different that what we are used to seeing.
Think for a moment about how radically different pros today look from pros from the 70s. Now, recall that in the 70s they were using mild dosages of supplements. Now imagine ALL the supplements are gone. With just food and training left I stand by 40-50%.
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190 X 50% = 95 lbs
95 + 190 = 285
not sure where 350 lbs came from as that would be closer to 84%
hahahahahahah
And this guy is supposed to be a teacher.
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190 X 50% = 95 lbs
95 + 190 = 285
not sure where 350 lbs came from as that would be closer to 84%
Actually, in reality we shouldn't even be counting the first 100lbs of skeleton, organs, skin, and fat.
What we really have in a 195lb person is maybe 95lbs of muscle.
so if they were to increase their musle size by 50% it would only be about 50lbs.
Putting the individual only at 245lbs.
To answer your question this is what you must do.
Find the weight of the top drug free heavyweight pro's around 235 I imagine.
Find the weight of the top Heavyweight Pros using drugs, around 300 I imagine.
230-100 for organs, skeleton, fat, etc. = 130lbs
65lbs, the difference between pros and drug free happens to be 50% of 130
It seems, at least with this not so scientific equation, that BayGBM may be right with his 40-50% guess.
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I don't think there are any natural bodybuilders who are 5'7" or so and 235 ripped.
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howard what do you teach?
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A good analogy on this issue is bench pressing with high tech bench shirt vs without.
One top guy is Scott Mendelson who can bench a bit over 700 raw but can do a good 200 lbs more with the shirt. Therefor we can conclude a really top guy can expect 20-25% more wt in the shirt.
I would be interested in what is the actual size difference on drugs vs natural.
My guess would be it might be ablout the same as the infamous bench shirts of today, a good 20-25%.
Take Ronnie who competes at 270-280 range in most shows now. He was natural enough to pass the drug test twice to win the hvy wt IFBB Universe in 1991 at a little over 210. With another decade of training with his awesome genetics he could be 220-225 lbs drug free, a difference of 50 lbs aprox. This is aprox the 20-25% extra a bench shirt gives to a powerlifter. Look at the top hvy wts at the Team U, like Skip Lacour, they weigh a good 50 lbs less than Guys like Ronnie or Jay.
I think this estimate is reasonable, what do you think?
Your numbers don't make any sense. Even if Ronnie had 100 lb of muscle before juicing, an increase of 50 lb would correspond to a 50% increase in muscle mass.
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DOES ANYONE REALLY GIVE A FAT FROGS ASS!! :D
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37.573174% give or take.... I just called Hany and Chad they both agreed.
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People react differently to gear, so it's impossiblte to really say. If I had to guess an average, I'd say a natural guy whose at the top of his genetic limit could put on at least another 10-20% of his current lean weight with moderate juicing. So a 200lb guy could get to 220-240.
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whatever the difference between craig now and when he was competing...
SG ::)
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whatever the difference between craig now and when he was competing...
SG ::)
haha. You beat me to it.
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People react differently to gear, so it's impossiblte to really say. If I had to guess an average, I'd say a natural guy whose at the top of his genetic limit could put on at least another 10-20% of his current lean weight with moderate juicing. So a 200lb guy could get to 220-240.
this is a pretty good answer. are you talking pure lean muscle? you have to remember that alot of the weight u put on is water.
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50% sounds accurate to me.
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I don't think there are any natural bodybuilders who are 5'7" or so and 235 ripped.
And I don't think there are any pros who are 5'7" or so and 300lbs ripped.
I was referring to the biggest guys, 5'10" and up.
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i dont believe in making muscles with naturel traing.
Naturel training is bullshit.
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DOES ANYONE REALLY GIVE A FAT FROGS ASS!! :D
wtf are you posting on a message board for???? Discussing bodybuilding related shit is the point of the whole board c*nt knocker
40 percent drugs
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wtf are you posting on a message board for???? Discussing bodybuilding related shit is the point of the whole board c*nt knocker
40 percent drugs
c*nt knocker?......... LMAO ;D
thats a new one but i love it
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this is a pretty good answer. are you talking pure lean muscle? you have to remember that alot of the weight u put on is water.
I'm saying a guy that competes at 200 ripped and dry could now compete at 220-240 with the same conditioning.
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I’m not just thinking of bodyweight, bench press or things of that sort. I’m thinking of ALL the things that ALL supplements add to the contest physuque. If they had to rely simply on food and no supplements of ANY kind--even diuretics and similar products they would look very different that what we are used to seeing.
Think for a moment about how radically different pros today look from pros from the 70s. Now, recall that in the 70s they were using mild dosages of supplements. Now imagine ALL the supplements are gone. With just food and training left I stand by 40-50%.
Nope. I think supplements don't do shit, besides protein powders. Just my opinion.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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A good analogy on this issue is bench pressing with high tech bench shirt vs without.
One top guy is Scott Mendelson who can bench a bit over 700 raw but can do a good 200 lbs more with the shirt. Therefor we can conclude a really top guy can expect 20-25% more wt in the shirt.
I would be interested in what is the actual size difference on drugs vs natural.
My guess would be it might be ablout the same as the infamous bench shirts of today, a good 20-25%.
Take Ronnie who competes at 270-280 range in most shows now. He was natural enough to pass the drug test twice to win the hvy wt IFBB Universe in 1991 at a little over 210. With another decade of training with his awesome genetics he could be 220-225 lbs drug free, a difference of 50 lbs aprox. This is aprox the 20-25% extra a bench shirt gives to a powerlifter. Look at the top hvy wts at the Team U, like Skip Lacour, they weigh a good 50 lbs less than Guys like Ronnie or Jay.
I think this estimate is reasonable, what do you think?
so are you saying the the top powerlifters off gear and without a bench shirt can't break 500? lol
shit i did 350 clean in high school natural
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so are you saying the the top powerlifters off gear and without a bench shirt can't break 500? lol
shit i did 350 clean in high school natural
Yeah, but there aren't many 35 year-old high-schoolers. ;D You're comparing yourself to kiddies... ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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-32.88% EXACTLY
u crazy lol
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What is this argument about, exactly? ??? I seem to have missed the boat...
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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wtf are you posting on a message board for???? Discussing bodybuilding related shit is the point of the whole board c*nt knocker
40 percent drugs
LISTEN HERE LITTLE homo PUNK BITCH. I LOVE DISCUSSING BODYBUILDING ISSUES, HOWEVER, ARGUING OVER %'S WITH STEROID INVOLVEMENT WITH LIFTING IS POINTLESS, UNLESS YOU YOURSELF ARE ON THE SHIT AND WONDER YOURSELF WHAT A SAGGY, WEAK, PUSSY YOU WOULD BE WITH OUT IT. PUNK!!! END OF STORY!!
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LISTEN HERE LITTLE homo PUNK BITCH. I LOVE DISCUSSING BODYBUILDING ISSUES, HOWEVER, ARGUING OVER %'S WITH STEROID INVOLVEMENT WITH LIFTING IS POINTLESS, UNLESS YOU YOURSELF ARE ON THE SHIT AND WONDER YOURSELF WHAT A SAGGY, WEAK, PUSSY YOU WOULD BE WITH OUT IT. PUNK!!! END OF STORY!!
HA HA HA! Take it easy, bro...if you're gonna get upset at all the bullshit said here, you should request a prescription for Lipitor from your doctor right now. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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HA HA HA! Take it easy, bro...if you're gonna get upset at all the bullshit said here, you should request a prescription for Lipitor from your doctor right now. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I'M ALL READY ON IT.
LICK MY GOOCH!!!
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I'M ALL READY ON IT.
LICK MY GOOCH!!!
Dude, I was nice to ya... >:( You'll start making many enemies on this board, cun t.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Dude, I was nice to ya... >:( You'll start making many enemies on this board, cun t.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
DON'T BE NICE TO ME BITCH. I ALREADY HAVE ENEMIES. YOU THINK A FEW MORE IS GONNA CHANGE ANYTHING. NUGGA PLEASE. LISTEN QUEFF, JUST IGNORE MY POSTS. I'LL KEEP ON POSTING WHAT I FEEL, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT. YOU CAN F...U...C...K... OFF C...U...N...T KNOCKER!!! BRING IT ON WITH ANOTHER RESPONSE TO THIS MR TUFF GUY SUCKMYMUSCLE. ;D ;D ;D
GARGLE MY SACK!!!
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DON'T BE NICE TO ME BITCH. I ALREADY HAVE ENEMIES. YOU THINK A FEW MORE IS GONNA CHANGE ANYTHING. NUGGA PLEASE. LISTEN QUEFF, JUST IGNORE MY POSTS. I'LL KEEP ON POSTING WHAT I FEEL, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT. YOU CAN F...U...C...K... OFF C...U...N...T KNOCKER!!! BRING IT ON WITH ANOTHER RESPONSE TO THIS MR TUFF GUY SUCKMYMUSCLE. ;D ;D ;D
GARGLE MY SACK!!!
:'( Nah, you're too easy. No wit...no intelligence ::). All you do is blurt out insults, something a crack-baby can do-something which is probably true in your case, anyway. Your momma was probably the kind of cun t who would suck a dozen duds, for a single rock. Hey, you were fed man-milk while in the womb. All the testosterone you received, from all that spooge, probably explains your violent personality ;D.I will let you embarass yourself(you won't stay here for long). ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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A good analogy on this issue is bench pressing with high tech bench shirt vs without.
One top guy is Scott Mendelson who can bench a bit over 700 raw but can do a good 200 lbs more with the shirt. Therefor we can conclude a really top guy can expect 20-25% more wt in the shirt.
I would be interested in what is the actual size difference on drugs vs natural.
My guess would be it might be ablout the same as the infamous bench shirts of today, a good 20-25%.
Take Ronnie who competes at 270-280 range in most shows now. He was natural enough to pass the drug test twice to win the hvy wt IFBB Universe in 1991 at a little over 210. With another decade of training with his awesome genetics he could be 220-225 lbs drug free, a difference of 50 lbs aprox. This is aprox the 20-25% extra a bench shirt gives to a powerlifter. Look at the top hvy wts at the Team U, like Skip Lacour, they weigh a good 50 lbs less than Guys like Ronnie or Jay.
I think this estimate is reasonable, what do you think?
The current world champion is 5ft6 and about 175-180
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:'( Nah, you're too easy. No wit...no intelligence ::). All you do is blurt out insults, something a crack-baby can do-something which is probably true in your case, anyway. Your momma was probably the kind of cun t who would suck a dozen duds, for a single rock. Hey, you were fed man-milk while in the womb. All the testosterone you received, from all that spooge, probably explains your violent personality ;D.I will let you embarass yourself(you won't stay here for long). ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
OH DARN, YOU'RE RIGHT. YOUR INSULTS ARE WAY MORE WITTY AND INTELLIGENT THAN MINE. ESPECIALLY HOW YOU PUT CUTE LITTLE FACES AFTER EVERY WELL THOUGHT OUT STATEMENT. JUST GET BACK TO CLEANING THE MAGGOTS OFF THE FLOOR THAT FELL OUT OF YO MOMMAS SNATCH AFTER TYREL SHOT UP INSIDE HER. REMEMBER, YOU'RE THE ONE THAT MADE THIS PERSONAL.
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OH DARN, YOU'RE RIGHT. YOUR INSULTS ARE WAY MORE WITTY AND INTELLIGENT THAN MINE. ESPECIALLY HOW YOU PUT CUTE LITTLE FACES AFTER EVERY WELL THOUGHT OUT STATEMENT. JUST GET BACK TO CLEANING THE MAGGOTS OFF THE FLOOR THAT FELL OUT OF YO MOMMAS SNATCH AFTER TYREL SHOT UP INSIDE HER. REMEMBER, YOU'RE THE ONE THAT MADE THIS PERSONAL.
Nah, I used the momma line first. Has all that crack your momma smocked, while carrying her calf, brain-damaged you to the point you can't do any better than copy-cat a reply? By the way, why did you mention Tyrel? It brings you childhood memories, huh :'(? After all, practically every guy, in the ghetto, is named tyrell. I can imagine you, at the age of six, looking at your cun t, HIV-infected momma laying with her legs spread in the bed, with a bunch of Tyrels standing in line to pork her cum-dripping oyster. As every guy finishes off, your momma yells:"Next! Tyrel 2! Next! Tyrel 3!". All that for a single rock of crack! What a cheap cun t! ;D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Nah, I used the momma line first. Has all that crack your momma smocked, while carrying her calf, brain-damaged you to the point you can't do any better than copy-cat a reply? By the way, why did you mention Tyrel? It brings you childhood memories, huh :'(? After all, practically every guy, in the ghetto, is named tyrell. I can imagine you, at the age of six, looking at your cun t, HIV-infected momma laying with her legs spread in the bed, with a bunch of Tyrels standing in line to pork her cum-dripping oyster. As every guy finishes off, your momma yells:"Next! Tyrel 2! Next! Tyrel 3!". All that for a single rock of crack! What a cheap cun t! ;D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
THIS COULD GO ON AND ON.
AND I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT BE A DECENT WHITE BOY AFTER READING SOME OF YOUR POSTS. WHAT A BAD JUDGE OF CHARACTER I AM. YOU HAVE A MOUTH JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER DEGENERATE N...I...G...G...E...R... .NO MATTER WHAT YOU POST, YOU'RE STILL A PUNK ASS BITCH RACE TRADER. YOU SHOULD GO ON A BLACK COMEDY SHOW WITH YOUR MOMMA JOKES.
HAVE YOUR GUTTER SNIPE MOTHER SUCK YOUR MUSCLE
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gayer than Howie contemplating
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Gayer than wondering how much size a man can gain from an unpumped state to fully pumped by looking at pictures of him in a tight thong.
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Gayer than felching your dog
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A good analogy on this issue is bench pressing with high tech bench shirt vs without.
One top guy is Scott Mendelson who can bench a bit over 700 raw but can do a good 200 lbs more with the shirt. Therefor we can conclude a really top guy can expect 20-25% more wt in the shirt.
I would be interested in what is the actual size difference on drugs vs natural.
My guess would be it might be ablout the same as the infamous bench shirts of today, a good 20-25%.
Take Ronnie who competes at 270-280 range in most shows now. He was natural enough to pass the drug test twice to win the hvy wt IFBB Universe in 1991 at a little over 210. With another decade of training with his awesome genetics he could be 220-225 lbs drug free, a difference of 50 lbs aprox. This is aprox the 20-25% extra a bench shirt gives to a powerlifter. Look at the top hvy wts at the Team U, like Skip Lacour, they weigh a good 50 lbs less than Guys like Ronnie or Jay.
I think this estimate is reasonable, what do you think?
It's not only size. Also conditioning and a very mature and dense look.
You should know yourself as a fellow juicer.
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its irrelevant. sure, without the drugs the pros would be 190 on stage. but, WITH the drugs, but without the diet training and cardio... the drug free version would kick the drug versions ass. you still have to train eat and do cardio !!
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Nah, I used the momma line first. Has all that crack your momma smocked, while carrying her calf, brain-damaged you to the point you can't do any better than copy-cat a reply? By the way, why did you mention Tyrel? It brings you childhood memories, huh :'(? After all, practically every guy, in the ghetto, is named tyrell. I can imagine you, at the age of six, looking at your cun t, HIV-infected momma laying with her legs spread in the bed, with a bunch of Tyrels standing in line to pork her cum-dripping oyster. As every guy finishes off, your momma yells:"Next! Tyrel 2! Next! Tyrel 3!". All that for a single rock of crack! What a cheap cun t! ;D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Gayer than putting "SUCKMYMUSCLE" under every post.
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Take Ronnie who competes at 270-280 range in most shows now. He was natural enough to pass the drug test twice to win the hvy wt IFBB Universe in 1991 at a little over 210.
The IFBB World championships were not drug tested in 1991. But then again, they're drug tested now, yet no one believes the winners are lifetime drug free.
Comparing Ronnie then and now is really comparing steroids vs steroids and gh and insulin.
With another decade of training with his awesome genetics he could be 220-225 lbs drug free, a difference of 50 lbs aprox. This is aprox the 20-25% extra a bench shirt gives to a powerlifter. Look at the top hvy wts at the Team U, like Skip Lacour, they weigh a good 50 lbs less than Guys like Ronnie or Jay.
I think this estimate is reasonable, what do you think?
again Team U is not a good example. WNBF might be a better choice.
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DON'T BE NICE TO ME BITCH. I ALREADY HAVE ENEMIES. YOU THINK A FEW MORE IS GONNA CHANGE ANYTHING. NUGGA PLEASE. LISTEN QUEFF, JUST IGNORE MY POSTS. I'LL KEEP ON POSTING WHAT I FEEL, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT. YOU CAN F...U...C...K... OFF C...U...N...T KNOCKER!!! BRING IT ON WITH ANOTHER RESPONSE TO THIS MR TUFF GUY SUCKMYMUSCLE. ;D ;D ;D
GARGLE MY SACK!!!
Welcome back Leafy ;D
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so are you saying the the top powerlifters off gear and without a bench shirt can't break 500? lol
shit i did 350 clean in high school natural
Yes, the world's greatest drug-using bench pressers likely couldn't press 500 or more pounds without the hormones / chemicals and support gear. And there is a MONUMENTAL difference between a 350-pound press and a 500-pound one. HUGE difference.
A competition-style press of 405 with no shirt and zero drug use can easily become 600 with those two factors entered into the mix.
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repeat that for 10,000 individuals to arrive at the estimate and the confidence interval
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HA HA HA! Take it easy, bro...if you're gonna get upset at all the bullshit said here, you should request a prescription for Lipitor from your doctor right now. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
hahaha this is hilarious coming from you, sucky :D
E
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What is they point of growing your muscles to that extent anyway? I doesn't look good, natural or healthy + it screams mental disorders... I bodybuilder that trains for and only eats and take drugs / supplements for sake of mass has same kind of disorder as anorectic or obese people, simply just stress with a different manifestation.
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What is they point of growing your muscles to that extent anyway? I doesn't look good, natural or healthy + it screams mental disorders... I bodybuilder that trains for and only eats and take drugs / supplements for sake of mass has same kind of disorder as anorectic or obese people, simply just stress with a different manifestation.
if you dont understand it, you wont understand it. dont bother trying.
you are right though, its a mental disorder. ;D
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78.67%.....great receptors! ;D
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gayer than Howie contemplating
Why resurrect a 3 year old topic that should never have been in the first place? Gayer than wearing tight jeans.
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40-50%
end of thread
simple math really, this would turn a 180-190 pounder to a 250-280 lb IFBB pro like you see
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all drugs
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whatever the difference between craig now and when he was competing...
SG ::)
I wouldn't worry about Craig, looks like he has some good training partners.
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hahaha this is hilarious coming from you, sucky :D
E
C'mon, post your picture you obese alcoholic gay bastard. I'm waiting. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Somone like Nasser/Ronnie could probably get to 230lbs with abs naturally, with drugs they get to 300lbs with abs..
big big diffrence.
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C'mon, post your picture you obese alcoholic gay bastard. I'm waiting. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
ladies first :-*
E
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ladies first :-*
E
Exactly. So where's your pic. ;) I'm waiting. Show everyone what a short, fugly, bald, obese and unemployed 45 year-old fudge packer you are.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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90%
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Good to have you back gh.
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Exactly. So where's your pic. ;) I'm waiting. Show everyone what a short, fugly, bald, obese and unemployed 45 year-old fudge packer you are.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
you want to see if i'm your type ???
when you post a pic i'll post mine, you can't call somebody a pussy for not posting a pic when you haven't posted one yourself "genius" ::)
until then, you will be forced to think of me as something i am not to help get you through the sleepless nights :-*
E
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90%
bullshit ::)