Author Topic: Liberalism Is A Disease  (Read 51999 times)

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #150 on: February 08, 2016, 03:23:39 PM »
Can you explain to me what is Democratic about North Korea since its official name is: North Korea, officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea

 ???  ???  ???

You are a moron.

Well imbecile, I'm glad the ad hominem attacks have begun....

East Germany was truly socialist under Soviet occupation and its official name was German Democratic Republic....dolt

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #151 on: February 08, 2016, 03:24:00 PM »
 :o  ::)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea
North Korea , officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #152 on: February 08, 2016, 03:24:59 PM »
Well imbecile, I'm glad the ad hominem attacks have begun....

East Germany was truly socialist under Soviet occupation and its official name was German Democratic Republic....dolt
Must be one of those facts Democracies and Republics want to bury like a turd- at least according to your child like "logic".

obsidian

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #153 on: February 08, 2016, 03:26:18 PM »
Glad you posted that.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/16/jason-villalba/jason-villalba-said-bernie-sanders-democratic-soci/




Pants on Fire!
Villalba
"Bernie Sanders admits he is a Democratic Socialist. … Nazis were Democratic Socialists."

— Jason Villalba on Tuesday, October 13th, 2015 in a tweet
Jason Villalba said Bernie Sanders is a Democratic Socialist and "Nazis were Democratic Socialists"

By W. Gardner Selby on Friday, October 16th, 2015 at 10:30 a.m.



Bernie Sanders proudly declares himself a democratic socialist. A Texas state representative suggested that Sanders must somehow then be aligned with the Nazis of Adolf Hitler.

State Rep. Jason Villalba, R-Dallas, posted a tweet during the CNN-hosted Democratic presidential debate Oct. 13, 2015, that opened: "The modern Democrat Party is filled with Democratic Socialists and soft socialists. Is this where we are in America?"

To that tweet, Villalba attached an image of what looked like an old document stating: "That awkward moment when … 1) Bernie Sanders admits he is a Democratic Socialist. 2) Nazis were Democratic Socialists 3) America fought an entire World War to stop the advance of Democratic Socialists." The image closed: "Sincerely, Sane Americans."


A Democratic activist, Ed Espinoza of Progress Texas, brought it to our attention for a fact check.

We didn’t hear back from Villalba about the presented "Democratic Socialist" conclusions. But he told the Dallas Morning News and Jonathan Tilove, chief political writer for the Austin American-Statesman, that the image with its mentions of Sanders and the Nazis was a meme he found online.

He also insisted his tweet wasn’t likening Democrats to Nazis. "So is the history accurate in this?" Villalba told Tilove by phone. "Of course not. Look, was I trying to make a connection between Sanders and the Nazi party? Absolutely not. I categorically reject any suggestion that that  is what I was intending to do."

By the next day, Villalba's tweet was no longer posted by him. Regardless, we checked its accuracy.


Sanders a democratic socialist

Sanders, the independent Vermont senator running for the Democratic presidential nomination, considers himself a democratic socialist. He’s also Jewish.

In the debate, moderator Anderson Cooper delved in:

COOPER: "You call yourself a democratic socialist. How can any kind of socialist win a general election in the United States?"

SANDERS: "Well, we're going to win because first, we're going to explain what democratic socialism is. And what democratic socialism is about is saying that it is immoral and wrong that the top one-tenth of 1 percent in this country own almost 90 percent - almost - own almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent. That it is wrong, today, in a rigged economy, that 57 percent of all new income is going to the top 1 percent.

"That when you look around the world, you see every other major country providing healthcare to all people as a right, except the United States. You see every other major country saying to moms that, when you have a baby, we're not going to separate you from your newborn baby, because we are going to have - we are going to have medical and family paid leave, like every other country on Earth.

"Those are some of the principles that I believe in and I think we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people…"

COOPER: …"You don't consider yourself a capitalist, though?"

SANDERS: "Do I consider myself part of the casino capitalist process by which so few have so much and so many have so little by which Wall Street's greed and recklessness wrecked this economy? No, I don't. I believe in a society where all people do well. Not just a handful of billionaires."

Nazis

And were the Nazis also Democratic Socialists?

We consulted historians and books, finding the Nazi party’s full name was the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. That name was adopted in 1920; before that, the party had been the German Workers’ Party.

But there was little socialist about the party’s platform or Hitler’s actions once he acceded to leading Germany in the early 1930s.

By phone and email, Rice University historian Peter Caldwell told us the key word in the party’s name was "national" and the party’s focus was on building nationalism — a focus ultimately reflected in Hitler’s twisted vision of cleansing the country of residents, especially Jews, not considered of pure German blood. While socialists on the left celebrate democracy, Caldwell said, the word has a different meaning on the right — in this instance, he said, excluding people who are not part of the nation, hence rejecting Jews and communists and, in pre-World War II Germany, democracy itself.

Caldwell said the "misleading" tweet suggesting an alignment between Sanders’ professed democratic socialism and Hitler’s party would "have Hitler turning in his grave, wherever the grave is. The Nazis loudly opposed democracy, the first and foremost thing." Also, he said, "they were opposed to emancipating the workers, giving them the rights to vote and to organize" in unions.

Similarly, Barbara Miller Lane, a Bryn Mawr College professor and co-editor of a compilation of Nazi ideology before 1933, said by email: "The Nazis were NOT ‘democratic socialists,’ whatever that means. The Nazis were never democrats and never real socialists either." While there was a longstanding and distinguished Social Democratic Party in Germany from the 1870 to the 1920s, Lane wrote, the Nazis fought against it, and after 1933 imprisoned its leaders.

Lane added: "The Nazis opposed all traditional socialism, wanting to substitute something they called ‘German socialism’ or ‘Caucasian socialism.’ This meant citizenship and privileges only for ‘Aryans’ (meaning non-Jews), concentration camps for others."

According to the "The Cambridge Illustrated History of Germany," Hitler joined the German Workers’ Party in 1919, the year before the party’s decision to add National and Socialist to its name.

At the time, according to the book, supporters included "well-placed anti-Semites and extreme nationalists" who hoped to gain influence over members of the working class; Hitler, a spellbinding orator, became the party’s chairman in 1921. Another book, "A Brief History of Germany," says the Nazi’s "appealed to a broad swath of the German population, attracting fervent nationalists and radical conservatives, as well as those who hated the Versailles settlement, feared the communists, or despised the Jews."

Our ruling

Villalba said Sanders "admits he is a democratic socialist… Nazis were Democratic Socialists."

Sanders calls himself a democratic socialist. The Nazis were not democratic socialists. Whether or not Villalba intended to link Sanders to the Nazis, his tweet neatly did the job.

We find this claim historically inaccurate and ridiculous. Pants on Fire!

PANTS ON FIRE – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim.


Click here for more on the six PolitiFact ratings and how we select facts to check.

My post has this link:

https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian

The image came from your link, but so what? It's just opinions. And everyone has them. So the guy deleted his tweet. Not the first time someone has been silenced via Political Correctness.

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #154 on: February 08, 2016, 03:26:58 PM »
I am convinced you are a liar and a moron based on your very own posts and nothing else.

Oh well, you did it to yourself.

Maybe if your read Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals you wouldn't be made to look like the bumbling fool that you appear....

Once I'm done with you, you'll be in a fetal position hugging a Humme book and reciting Locke. I could lend you both books....

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #155 on: February 08, 2016, 03:27:49 PM »
My post has this link:

https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian

The image came from your link, but so what? It's just opinions. And everyone has them. So the guy deleted his tweet. Not the first time someone has been silenced via Political Correctness.
TomPaineCommonSense • a year ago

If Nazi Germany was socialist, how come all the corporate leaders, bankers, and military generals were able to make so much money and spirit it out of Germany through banks for themselves and their families? Why did their leading companies - steel, chemical, construction - make such fat profits from all the armaments, materiel? Why weren't profits distributed to the people if it were socialism? Why would a socialist state form such a close alliance with the fascist state of Italy? WWII Germany had elements of private enterprise, fascism, and socialism blended for the economic and political benefit of their elites, and because the people had little if any influence I would say socialism was the minor if not altogether missing element of their economic system

OB1

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #156 on: February 08, 2016, 03:28:03 PM »
Glad you posted that.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/16/jason-villalba/jason-villalba-said-bernie-sanders-democratic-soci/




Pants on Fire!
Villalba
"Bernie Sanders admits he is a Democratic Socialist. … Nazis were Democratic Socialists."

— Jason Villalba on Tuesday, October 13th, 2015 in a tweet
Jason Villalba said Bernie Sanders is a Democratic Socialist and "Nazis were Democratic Socialists"

By W. Gardner Selby on Friday, October 16th, 2015 at 10:30 a.m.



Bernie Sanders proudly declares himself a democratic socialist. A Texas state representative suggested that Sanders must somehow then be aligned with the Nazis of Adolf Hitler.

State Rep. Jason Villalba, R-Dallas, posted a tweet during the CNN-hosted Democratic presidential debate Oct. 13, 2015, that opened: "The modern Democrat Party is filled with Democratic Socialists and soft socialists. Is this where we are in America?"

To that tweet, Villalba attached an image of what looked like an old document stating: "That awkward moment when … 1) Bernie Sanders admits he is a Democratic Socialist. 2) Nazis were Democratic Socialists 3) America fought an entire World War to stop the advance of Democratic Socialists." The image closed: "Sincerely, Sane Americans."


A Democratic activist, Ed Espinoza of Progress Texas, brought it to our attention for a fact check.

We didn’t hear back from Villalba about the presented "Democratic Socialist" conclusions. But he told the Dallas Morning News and Jonathan Tilove, chief political writer for the Austin American-Statesman, that the image with its mentions of Sanders and the Nazis was a meme he found online.

He also insisted his tweet wasn’t likening Democrats to Nazis. "So is the history accurate in this?" Villalba told Tilove by phone. "Of course not. Look, was I trying to make a connection between Sanders and the Nazi party? Absolutely not. I categorically reject any suggestion that that  is what I was intending to do."

By the next day, Villalba's tweet was no longer posted by him. Regardless, we checked its accuracy.


Sanders a democratic socialist

Sanders, the independent Vermont senator running for the Democratic presidential nomination, considers himself a democratic socialist. He’s also Jewish.

In the debate, moderator Anderson Cooper delved in:

COOPER: "You call yourself a democratic socialist. How can any kind of socialist win a general election in the United States?"

SANDERS: "Well, we're going to win because first, we're going to explain what democratic socialism is. And what democratic socialism is about is saying that it is immoral and wrong that the top one-tenth of 1 percent in this country own almost 90 percent - almost - own almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent. That it is wrong, today, in a rigged economy, that 57 percent of all new income is going to the top 1 percent.

"That when you look around the world, you see every other major country providing healthcare to all people as a right, except the United States. You see every other major country saying to moms that, when you have a baby, we're not going to separate you from your newborn baby, because we are going to have - we are going to have medical and family paid leave, like every other country on Earth.

"Those are some of the principles that I believe in and I think we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people…"

COOPER: …"You don't consider yourself a capitalist, though?"

SANDERS: "Do I consider myself part of the casino capitalist process by which so few have so much and so many have so little by which Wall Street's greed and recklessness wrecked this economy? No, I don't. I believe in a society where all people do well. Not just a handful of billionaires."

Nazis

And were the Nazis also Democratic Socialists?

We consulted historians and books, finding the Nazi party’s full name was the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. That name was adopted in 1920; before that, the party had been the German Workers’ Party.

But there was little socialist about the party’s platform or Hitler’s actions once he acceded to leading Germany in the early 1930s.

By phone and email, Rice University historian Peter Caldwell told us the key word in the party’s name was "national" and the party’s focus was on building nationalism — a focus ultimately reflected in Hitler’s twisted vision of cleansing the country of residents, especially Jews, not considered of pure German blood. While socialists on the left celebrate democracy, Caldwell said, the word has a different meaning on the right — in this instance, he said, excluding people who are not part of the nation, hence rejecting Jews and communists and, in pre-World War II Germany, democracy itself.

Caldwell said the "misleading" tweet suggesting an alignment between Sanders’ professed democratic socialism and Hitler’s party would "have Hitler turning in his grave, wherever the grave is. The Nazis loudly opposed democracy, the first and foremost thing." Also, he said, "they were opposed to emancipating the workers, giving them the rights to vote and to organize" in unions.

Similarly, Barbara Miller Lane, a Bryn Mawr College professor and co-editor of a compilation of Nazi ideology before 1933, said by email: "The Nazis were NOT ‘democratic socialists,’ whatever that means. The Nazis were never democrats and never real socialists either." While there was a longstanding and distinguished Social Democratic Party in Germany from the 1870 to the 1920s, Lane wrote, the Nazis fought against it, and after 1933 imprisoned its leaders.

Lane added: "The Nazis opposed all traditional socialism, wanting to substitute something they called ‘German socialism’ or ‘Caucasian socialism.’ This meant citizenship and privileges only for ‘Aryans’ (meaning non-Jews), concentration camps for others."

According to the "The Cambridge Illustrated History of Germany," Hitler joined the German Workers’ Party in 1919, the year before the party’s decision to add National and Socialist to its name.

At the time, according to the book, supporters included "well-placed anti-Semites and extreme nationalists" who hoped to gain influence over members of the working class; Hitler, a spellbinding orator, became the party’s chairman in 1921. Another book, "A Brief History of Germany," says the Nazi’s "appealed to a broad swath of the German population, attracting fervent nationalists and radical conservatives, as well as those who hated the Versailles settlement, feared the communists, or despised the Jews."

Our ruling

Villalba said Sanders "admits he is a democratic socialist… Nazis were Democratic Socialists."

Sanders calls himself a democratic socialist. The Nazis were not democratic socialists. Whether or not Villalba intended to link Sanders to the Nazis, his tweet neatly did the job.

We find this claim historically inaccurate and ridiculous. Pants on Fire!

PANTS ON FIRE – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim.


Click here for more on the six PolitiFact ratings and how we select facts to check.


©

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #157 on: February 08, 2016, 03:30:16 PM »
Well if we're going to a meme war....I know where to look. Lol

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #158 on: February 08, 2016, 03:30:19 PM »
Maybe if your read Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals you wouldn't be made to look like the bumbling fool that you appear....

Once I'm done with you, you'll be in a fetal position hugging a Humme book and reciting Locke. I could lend you both books....
Crybaby,  There is nothing to be learned from you.  I like facts, you like fiction.  You are useless to me.

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #159 on: February 08, 2016, 03:31:09 PM »

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #160 on: February 08, 2016, 03:32:45 PM »
Crybaby,  There is nothing to be learned from you.  I like facts, you like fiction.  You are useless to me.

I see your meltdown has begun, good I can do my 5/4 plan that the soviets loved so much.....instead of 5 posts I'll have you melting in 4.... I know you need my reference as you're not well read

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #161 on: February 08, 2016, 03:35:11 PM »

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #162 on: February 08, 2016, 03:37:27 PM »
.

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #163 on: February 08, 2016, 03:52:24 PM »
LOL, fucking moron. You are the stupidest man on earth; you don't even know what you believe in. The main distinctions between modern and classical liberalism revolve around the concepts of positive and negative freedoms, and economic solutions for ensuring liberty, Yet you're still rambling on about white guys!
Now Hitler is supposedly a democratic socialist too? LOL! He called himself a socialist because it was "fashionable": in the 20's and 30's, socialism was widely seen as the future and had a big effect upon political discourse. Hitler's goals were completely antithetical to any socialist ideals.

Lets not forget yesterday when you claimed that Orwell wrote Animal Farm to denounce his own socialist beliefs LOL.  

Please just stop posting, delete your account and go take all the piss-filled cups out of your room before your wife gets home!
:o

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #164 on: February 08, 2016, 04:00:52 PM »
I really don't have the time but I see the need.....

Socialism in Nazi Germany's economy.....1936 price and wage controls are initiated as a response to inflation of 1933, followed by collectivism and de facto control of all private enterprises (ownership remained in name only) with centralized government controls and planning for all production...essence of socialism.

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #165 on: February 08, 2016, 04:01:53 PM »
In The Road to Wigan Pier from 1936 Orwell writes: "In the end I worked out an anarchist theory that all government is evil, that the punishment always does more harm than the crime and that people can be trusted to behave decently if only you will let them alone."


doesn't sound like a socialist to me.

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #166 on: February 08, 2016, 04:04:31 PM »
The only points that can be argued in reference to socialism is the brand of socialism, Marx socialism, Lenins socialism, Mao's socialism, Trotsky's...DRR, PRC, RNC, etc


Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #167 on: February 08, 2016, 04:06:18 PM »
In The Road to Wigan Pier from 1936 Orwell writes: "In the end I worked out an anarchist theory that all government is evil, that the punishment always does more harm than the crime and that people can be trusted to behave decently if only you will let them alone."


doesn't sound like a socialist to me.


animal farm is based on the Russian revolution, 1984 is based on what Orwell foresaw as the result of the Stalin purges of 1930's

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #168 on: February 08, 2016, 04:09:20 PM »
In The Road to Wigan Pier from 1936 Orwell writes: "In the end I worked out an anarchist theory that all government is evil, that the punishment always does more harm than the crime and that people can be trusted to behave decently if only you will let them alone."


doesn't sound like a socialist to me.

Then you also have no clue why Orwell wrote everything that he did and fought hard for Socialism his entire life.  You don't get to believe in an alternate reality because you want to.

Here is an essay Orwell wrote entitled, "Why I write"

http://orwell.ru/library/essays/wiw/english/e_wiw

In that essay he writes: "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it."


Hope this helps.

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #169 on: February 08, 2016, 04:15:01 PM »
I always crack up when people think the Nazis were democratic socialists. Hitler was a dictator. Granted he was voted in democratically, but the Nazi tactic of bashing in the heads of communists on the streets or gunning them down BEFORE Hitler got elected was hardly democratic.

I want anyone to show me ANYTHING democratic about National Socialist Germany from 1933 to 1945.

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #170 on: February 08, 2016, 04:15:19 PM »
In The Road to Wigan Pier from 1936 Orwell writes: "In the end I worked out an anarchist theory that all government is evil, that the punishment always does more harm than the crime and that people can be trusted to behave decently if only you will let them alone."


doesn't sound like a socialist to me.

Here this will help.  The book you quoted is a strong Defense of Socialism by Orwell.

http://www.k-1.com/Orwell/site/opinion/essays/storgaard1.html



4.3. The Road to Wigan Pier

In his description of socialism Orwell begins by giving a picture of the world he is living in:

"We are living in a world in which nobody is free, in which hardly anybody is secure, in which it is almost impossible to be honest and to remain alive. For enormous blocks of the working class the conditions of life are such as I have described in the opening chapters of this book, and there is no chance of those conditions showing any fundamental improvement." [RWP p. 149]

Anyone who thinks about it will, according to Orwell, realise that socialism is the solution to the problems. This is so obvious that Orwell sometimes wonders why socialism has not been established yet. The question must therefore be why socialism is on the retreat instead of on the advance. Not only are people not socialists, in certain cases they are even directly hostile towards socialism. Orwell will try to play the devil’s advocate and argue like a person, who is positive towards socialism and who is sensible enough to realise that socialism can work, but who always withdraws whenever socialism is mentioned. (It is obvious that Orwell is also expressing his own views).

First of all, people are not so much against socialism as they are against the socialists. The typical socialist is not, as imagined by the old ladies, a wild-looking worker in dirty trousers and with a hoarse voice. On the contrary, socialists are middle-class people. Furthermore, it is a fact that while they talk about the classless society, middle-class socialists cling to their class status. This is among other things reflected in socialist literature, which is far removed from the working class in language and expression.

You should always remember, Orwell says, that a worker, if he is a real worker, is seldom or never a socialist in the full logically consistent sense of the word. The worker's idea of socialism is very different from that of the schooled socialist higher in the social hierarchy. To the worker socialism means little more than better wages, shorter working hours and no one to boss you around.

"Often, in my opinion, he is a truer Socialist than the orthodox Marxist, because he does remember, what the other so often forgets, that Socialism means justice and common decency." [RWP p. 154]

Regarding the revolution, for many socialists it is not a question of the masses liberating themselves and the socialists joining the movement. To them the revolution is some reforms that "we", the clever ones, impose on "them", the lower classes. Orwell knows that it is not fair to judge a political theory from its followers. The problem, however, is that most people do (including Orwell himself) and that is why socialism is on the retreat.

There are people who are against socialism for ideological reasons, Orwell continues. They are against socialism, not because "it can't be done" but precisely because it can be done. You have to realise that socialism is connected to mechanisation. Socialism arose from the industrialisation and socialism will lead to mechanisation simply because some of its demand are irreconcilable with a more primitive way of life. But no sensible person is happy with the machine. Of course anyone can see that the machine is here to stay, but it is unfortunate that socialism is associated with increased mechanisation, not just as a means but as an end in itself, almost like a religion. It is okay that we let machines do all the hard and dreary work, but Orwell believes that human beings like to work with something manually. You may call that work or not, but if machines were to do everything, what should people do? Orwell believes that

"[t]he sensitive person's hostility to the machine is in one sense unrealistic, because of the obvious fact that the machine has come to stay. But as an attitude of mind there is a great deal to be said for it. The machine has got to be accepted, but it is probably better to accept it rather as one accepts a drug - that is, grudgingly and suspiciously." [RWP p. 178]

And because the thought normally goes "Socialism - progress - machinery - Russia - tractor - hygiene - machinery - progress", it is usually the same person who is against the machine who is also hostile to socialism.

When you present these arguments to the socialists, Orwell says, you are told that no one really wants to abolish the machine and return to a primitive agrarian society, which would be the equivalent to hard work. Certainly not anyone who has tried hard work. Furthermore, you are met with the old argument that socialism will come anyway, whether people like it or not, because of the comfortable concept of "historical necessity". But historical necessity, or rather the belief in it, has not been able to do anything about Hitler, Orwell says.

Fascism in Germany and Italy was the threatening background of Orwell's analysis. He saw it spread, also in England. It was not necessarily Mosley [Note 7] and his "pimpled followers", Orwell was thinking of, but the fascist attitude of mind in people who should know better.

"If you present Socialism in a bad and misleading light - if you let people imagine that it does not mean much more than pouring European civilization down the sink at the command of Marxist prigs - you risk driving the intellectual into Fascism. You frighten him into a sort of angry defensive attitude in which he simply refuses to listen to the Socialist case." [RWP p. 186]

To fight fascism you have to understand it, which means that you have to admit that it has its positive sides. In practical terms it is nothing but tyranny. But with a bit of thought anyone can see that the average fascist is often a well-meaning person who e.g. is worried about the situation of the unemployed. More importantly, fascism gets its strength from the good and bad sides of conservatism. Anyone who is for tradition and discipline will find fascism attractive. And if you are tired of certain aspects of socialist propaganda, it is very easy to see fascism as the last defence of everything that is good in European civilisation.

"We have got to admit that if Fascism is everywhere advancing, this is largely the fault of the Socialists themselves. Partly it is due to the mistaken communist tactic of sabotaging democracy, i.e. sawing off the branch you are sitting on; but still more to the fact that Socialists have, so to speak, presented their case wrong side foremost. They have never made it sufficiently clear that the essential aims of Socialism are justice and liberty." [RWP p. 188]

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #171 on: February 08, 2016, 04:15:41 PM »
Then you also have no clue why Orwell wrote everything that he did and fought hard for Socialism his entire life.  You don't get to believe in an alternate reality because you want to.

Here is an essay Orwell wrote entitled, "Why I write"

http://orwell.ru/library/essays/wiw/english/e_wiw

In that essay he writes: "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it."


Hope this helps.

He was what I call a Romantic Socialist......one who hates Soviet socialism disagrees with Marx's socialism but wants equality and brotherly love....more honestly, he was a humanist.

His utopian socialism only exists where unicorns frolick.....reality is Cambodia, China, Russia, Korea, and the millions upon millions of dead

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #172 on: February 08, 2016, 04:18:51 PM »
In The Road to Wigan Pier from 1936 Orwell writes: "In the end I worked out an anarchist theory that all government is evil, that the punishment always does more harm than the crime and that people can be trusted to behave decently if only you will let them alone."


doesn't sound like a socialist to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Wigan_Pier

The Road to Wigan Pier is a book by the British writer George Orwell, first published in 1937. The first half of this work documents his sociological investigations of the bleak living conditions among the working class in Lancashire and Yorkshire in the industrial north of England before World War II. The second half is a long essay on his middle-class upbringing, and the development of his political conscience, questioning British attitudes towards socialism. Orwell states plainly that he himself is in favour of socialism; but feels it necessary to point out reasons why many people who would benefit from socialism, and should logically support it, are in practice likely to be strong opponents.

OB1

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #173 on: February 08, 2016, 04:23:05 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Wigan_Pier

The Road to Wigan Pier is a book by the British writer George Orwell, first published in 1937. The first half of this work documents his sociological investigations of the bleak living conditions among the working class in Lancashire and Yorkshire in the industrial north of England before World War II. The second half is a long essay on his middle-class upbringing, and the development of his political conscience, questioning British attitudes towards socialism. Orwell states plainly that he himself is in favour of socialism; but feels it necessary to point out reasons why many people who would benefit from socialism, and should logically support it, are in practice likely to be strong opponents.

LOL.
All your big red fonts and quotes won't convince anyone and/or prove anything.
Use your own words.
Personal experience and insight that's what has real weight.
And therefore Tedim is still far ahead of you.

All these useless quotes and big fonts make me think you are a troll.
And then quoting wikipedia is the icing on the cake.

©

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #174 on: February 08, 2016, 04:27:27 PM »
I always crack up when people think the Nazis were democratic socialists. Hitler was a dictator. Granted he was voted in democratically, but the Nazi tactic of bashing in the heads of communists on the streets or gunning them down BEFORE Hitler got elected was hardly democratic.

I want anyone to show me ANYTHING democratic about National Socialist Germany from 1933 to 1945.

Party members were elected by other party members, a democratic process.....that's how all socialists claim democratic rule.

And that's why most call themselves "democratic", if Adonis read anything other than Wiki on his iPad he'd know this.