Author Topic: Chiropractors more harm than good?  (Read 44059 times)

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2013, 08:05:15 AM »
There are great DC's out there. The newer school ones are fantastic. Quite a few are a perfect marriage of many modalities: ART, Graston, Myo-Skeletal Alignment, Fascial Release/Postural Distortions,  Wellness and Dietary advice/coaching, etc.    

I've found that many of the old school DC's tend to be more minimalistic....  adjustment only.


I've worked with a dozen different DC's.. everyone was completely different.  


u know what's funny?  I had a serious injury last year that required surgery. All the surgeons I have consulted with wanted to treat me completely different and do different surgeries. Again. I don't think chiros are much different than any other profession when it comes to different opiniosn on how to treat certain conditions and in the way they differ in their practices.

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2013, 08:17:54 AM »
Vitamin regiments and herbal concoctions.  Forgoing cancer treat in favor of herbal remedies.  Many of them are ardent opponents of childhood vaccinations.  My sister in laws chiropractor has scared her off from vaccinating her kids with misinformation and outright wrong assertions.
oh boy haha. Here's a can of worms. Cancer runs in my family. My mom died early. Her last seven months was sheer hell. She went in for an exam and cancer was found. It was non symptomatic at that time. The next six months she puked, dry heaved, diarrhea, couldn't eat, looked like a skeleton, was too weak to leave the house etc.  On her death bed she said she wished she had never did the chemo and just lived her life and enjoyed it until the end.  I'm sure near the end she would have needed massive pain killers as the cancer was eating her alive.
If I get cancer I don't know what I will do.
I have had hundreds of patients over the years with cancer and most of them decided chemo. Most of them suffered similar results but I do not try to convince anyone not to do any treatments of their choice.  Cancer treatment outcomes are still dismal tho.  Having said that their r certain forms of cancer that are very successfully treated.
I'm not big on vaccinations either. Did the doc tell your sister not to vaccinate? 

Archer77

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2013, 08:21:20 AM »
oh boy haha. Here's a can of worms. Cancer runs in my family. My mom died early. Her last seven months was sheer hell. She went in for an exam and cancer was found. It was non symptomatic at that time. The next six months she puked, dry heaved, diarrhea, couldn't eat, looked like a skeleton, was too weak to leave the house etc.  On her death bed she said she wished she had never did the chemo and just lived her life and enjoyed it until the end.  I'm sure near the end she would have needed massive pain killers as the cancer was eating her alive.
If I get cancer I don't know what I will do.
I have had hundreds of patients over the years with cancer and most of them decided chemo. Most of them suffered similar results but I do not try to convince anyone not to do any treatments of their choice.  Cancer treatment outcomes are still dismal tho.  Having said that their r certain forms of cancer that are very successfully treated.
I'm not big on vaccinations either. Did the doc tell your sister not to vaccinate? 


Sorry about your mom.  My mom is currently battling lung cancer and it isn't looking good.

The chiropractor recommended she not vaccinate and reference the Wakefield debacle as evidence.  He was completely unaware Wakefield assertions had been soundly refuted and he has subsequently been disgraced.
A

irishdave

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2013, 08:21:46 AM »
chiro is one of my favourite posters and knows about my experience with a chiropractor

the best i can say is there are probably good and bad ones

the one i went to tried to disable me for life

What happened? Did you end up walking out of the session?

Krankenstein

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2013, 08:28:35 AM »

Sorry about your mom.  My mom is currently battling lung cancer and it isn't looking good.

The chiropractor recommended she not vaccinate and reference the Wakefield debacle as evidence.  He was completely unaware Wakefield assertions had been soundly refuted and he has subsequently been disgraced.

Sorry about your mom.  Question for you if you don't mind.  Right now, would you say her diet is primarily carbs?  Just indulge me on this.

Archer77

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2013, 08:30:53 AM »
Sorry about your mom.  Question for you if you don't mind.  Right now, would you say her diet is primarily carbs?  Just indulge me on this.

Appreciate the concern.  Whatever she can get down but Im not sure exactly. Mostly soups and easily digestible foods.   She was a heavy smoker for over fifty years. Had her first cigerette at thirteen.
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Krankenstein

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2013, 08:31:49 AM »
My left shoulder its so bad that my whole left arm (muscles) are starting to suffer from it....  some say Chiropractor is the way,while others tell me to stay away from them cause if is a rotator cuff tear it can get worse with some dude pulling,twisting and pushing with a tool,fist etc  injured area.......


[ Invalid YouTube link ]

What do you think ?


From my experience...if there is even the SLIGHTEST thought there is a tear in the rotator cuff, I order an MRI and get that before ANY therapy is done.  If any chiro says that adjusting the shoulder will directly heal the tear...ask them to explain why.  Adjusting the joint will help, but the actual tear will require time and rehab exercises (of which the chiro SHOULD be able to teach you and have you do before or after adjusting anything)

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2013, 08:32:30 AM »
chiro is one of my favourite posters and knows about my experience with a chiropractor

the best i can say is there are probably good and bad ones

the one i went to tried to disable me for life

Always sucks to hear of a story like this. I take it very personally when one of my colleagues disrespects the profession by providing poor treatment, or worse, injuring a patient. I will say that it is the exception to the rule. Still, there's no excuse for that.


Krankenstein

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2013, 08:34:00 AM »
Appreciate the concern.  Whatever she can get down but Im not sure exactly. Mostly soups and easily digestible foods.   She was a heavy smoker for over fifty years. Had her first cigerette at thirteen.

I speak from experience in that my father had lung, brain, and stomach.  If her diet is HIGH in carbohydrates...step in and see what you can do.  Everyone bags on Layne Norton but he was the one who actually talked to a little about this...and then connected me with a very prominent cancer researcher in Florida.  Cancer cells are obligate users of sugar.  So, why give them something that they can thrive on?  My father was diagnosed with stage 4...so there wasn't a whole lot that could be done.

Krankenstein

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2013, 08:35:41 AM »
Cheers mate, if I ever wanted someone to accidentally cause me permament spinal cord injury, I would want it to be you.

Its faster to damage your spinal cord by doing Crossfit...according to Uberman.  You are welcome in advance.

Archer77

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2013, 08:37:28 AM »
I speak from experience in that my father had lung, brain, and stomach.  If her diet is HIGH in carbohydrates...step in and see what you can do.  Everyone bags on Layne Norton but he was the one who actually talked to a little about this...and then connected me with a very prominent cancer researcher in Florida.  Cancer cells are obligate users of sugar.  So, why give them something that they can thrive on?  My father was diagnosed with stage 4...so there wasn't a whole lot that could be done.

Thanks for info.  I'll look into her eating habits.  She's at the point where she is about ready to give up on treatment.  You probably heard the whole, I've lived a long full life speech, yourself
A

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2013, 08:39:56 AM »

Sorry about your mom.  My mom is currently battling lung cancer and it isn't looking good.

The chiropractor recommended she not vaccinate and reference the Wakefield debacle as evidence.  He was completely unaware Wakefield assertions had been soundly refuted and he has subsequently been disgraced.
thanks man. I hope ur moms ok. It was honestly the hardest thing I myself had ever been thru. Just seeing my mom who was the rock of our family just painfully wither away.

On the vaccination issue.  I don't know the Wakefield whatever. Honestly I'm just not a huge fan of loading up syringes and shooting tons of shit into our bodies. Oh wait....where am I?


But anyway, there are trade offs and consequences to whatever we do. While the chicken pox vaccine has cut infant mortality nearly in half for chicken pox since 1995 there is no an epidemic of thousands of adults suffering from horribly painful long term or permanent shingles. Many researchers feel this is because when children would get chickenpox just being around them was like a booster shot for adults. In essence the adult that would be even near the child, wether it b the parent or grandparent, well their immune system would recognize the virus in the child and their immune system would be boosted. Since no kids go thru chicken pox, adults aren't getting that booster and hence r coming down with adult inset shingles but these cases r much more severe n longer term than prior. So now we come up w a shingles vaccine haha. So who knows?  


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/03/health/03vaccine.html?_r=0


Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2013, 08:42:01 AM »
From my experience...if there is even the SLIGHTEST thought there is a tear in the rotator cuff, I order an MRI and get that before ANY therapy is done.  If any chiro says that adjusting the shoulder will directly heal the tear...ask them to explain why.  Adjusting the joint will help, but the actual tear will require time and rehab exercises (of which the chiro SHOULD be able to teach you and have you do before or after adjusting anything)

To OMR: thanks for your input.

Krank has about 15 years more experience than I do. I really can't add much more to what he said regarding labral tears, or any soft tissue tear...he is dead on. If you can disregard the tiny penis, lower back tattoo that says "CROSS FIT OR DIE!!!", and the weird fetish with wearing women's clothing on the weekends, Krankesntein is one hell of a clinician an a fkn smart guy.

I will add, that I do feel that a human body free of any biomechanical aberrations has a better chance of proper and efficient healing than a human body that is experiencing nervous interference.

Krankenstein

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2013, 08:44:24 AM »
Thanks for info.  I'll look into her eating habits.  She's at the point where she is about ready to give up on treatment.  You probably heard the whole, I've lived a long full life speech, yourself

Well, my father went through it all.  Didn't help.  We were not really being given a prognosis on his condition from the head doctor so my sister stepped in and fired him.  She requested another one and this one came in, looked all his info and basically said to him that if what we were doing had not worked it probably wouldn't work.  He could stay in the hospital and they could make him comfortable.  He said he would not spend his last days there and wanted to go home.  We got one more week with him.  I feel for you.  There is no cruelty or bad intent in this next statement.  Enjoy the time you have with her.  Nothing is going to prepare you for when she is gone.  I do not know how close you are to her, but my father and I were very close.  I can not write this with out tearing up...but I admire him for making the choice he did and for also enduring all he did with the treatments.  I am not sure I would be as strong in the face of such piss poor odds.  So, people can bag on chiropractic as not being legit...but let me ask this.  How much money has gone into cancer research?  Are we even one step closer to doing anything to stop people like us from losing the people so close to us?  I personally don't see it.

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2013, 08:47:27 AM »
From my experience...if there is even the SLIGHTEST thought there is a tear in the rotator cuff, I order an MRI and get that before ANY therapy is done.  If any chiro says that adjusting the shoulder will directly heal the tear...ask them to explain why.  Adjusting the joint will help, but the actual tear will require time and rehab exercises (of which the chiro SHOULD be able to teach you and have you do before or after adjusting anything)
i didn't watch the vid cuz didn't look like there was nudity in it haha. Anyway absolutely. If a tear is suspected order an MRI. However only a small amount of tears require surgery. Many heal on their own and strengthening the supportive tissue will aid in the healing. If it is a  tear that requires surgery of course a Chiro cannot fix it.

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2013, 08:50:00 AM »
Well, my father went through it all.  Didn't help.  We were not really being given a prognosis on his condition from the head doctor so my sister stepped in and fired him.  She requested another one and this one came in, looked all his info and basically said to him that if what we were doing had not worked it probably wouldn't work.  He could stay in the hospital and they could make him comfortable.  He said he would not spend his last days there and wanted to go home.  We got one more week with him.  I feel for you.  There is no cruelty or bad intent in this next statement.  Enjoy the time you have with her.  Nothing is going to prepare you for when she is gone.  I do not know how close you are to her, but my father and I were very close.  I can not write this with out tearing up...but I admire him for making the choice he did and for also enduring all he did with the treatments.  I am not sure I would be as strong in the face of such piss poor odds.  So, people can bag on chiropractic as not being legit...but let me ask this.  How much money has gone into cancer research?  Are we even one step closer to doing anything to stop people like us from losing the people so close to us?  I personally don't see it.
make no mistake about it. Cancer is big business my friend.

Krankenstein

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2013, 08:52:49 AM »
Chiropractors have a place in healthcare. They provide a good service and should be respected as healthcare professionals.

That said, if you do have a ligament, muscle or tendon tear, you should probably go see an orthopedic surgeon for repair of that problem. Maybe Chiro can tell us whether there are other options via the use of chiropractors for these types of injuries. I am interested in knowing, as I probably have Labral tears on both shoulders from decades of wear and tear.

Chiropractors are doctors in their own discipline and should be respected as such.  There are more Doctors now in healthcare than there were ever before. So keep in mind, that as a consumer, you have way more options.

Besides chiropractors, these are some other doctors you might have not heard of:

DPT: Doctorate of Physical Therapy
DNP: Doctorate of Nursing Practice
DPA: Doctorate of Physician Assistant
PharmD: Doctor of Pharmacy
DN: Doctorate in Nutrition

These are all REAL doctors that have gone to school (Undergrad & Grad level) for well over 8 years and had their own residencies, in most instances, to attain the degree that they have, which can be applied to the realm of healthcare.

Watch out for both Nurse Practitioners and Physician Assistants with Doctorates. Those two groups WILL be the future of primary care medicine. Statistics are all pointing in that direction.

Also, don't be surprised if more people visit their local chiropractor for help with back aches and pains, versus waiting months on in to see an orthopedist.

"1"

Thanks for the words.  I know the history you have with my profession, and that above is a great example why I respect you so much.  If you haven't gotten an MRI of those shoulders, get one.  Find out whats going on.  Labrum tears are not the quickest to heal.  There are a number of options out there for treatment.  Like I said above, if a chiro suspects it and just wants to charge right in and adjust without doing any kind of assessment.  Kindly thank them for their time and leave.  I will be more than happy to list out the orthopoedic tests the chiro should have done if they suspect a rotator tear as well as labrum tear.

Silk - exactly.  Thats what I am saying.  Soft tissue supports the joints, so thats where the chiro comes in.  Dysfunction in a joint from compromised soft tissue is evident in a lot of things we treat.  The muscle most responsible for cervical stabilty (up to 40%) is the longus colli muscle.  Weaken that sucker (forward head posture/anterior head carriage) and you displace the natural center of gravity in the neck and you will start to see spurring of the bones as well as reduction in disc height.  Thats biomechanics and the simple physiology of the body.

Hulkotron

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2013, 08:53:10 AM »
C-Flex and Krankensteiner are both great athletes and spokespeople for their field.

Archer77

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2013, 08:55:18 AM »
Silk and Krank, thank you guys for the info and warmth. I hope you both know I return the sentiment.  A lot of interesting facts, wisdom and insight in your replies and I appreciate it......no homo.
A

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2013, 08:58:29 AM »
Thanks for info.  I'll look into her eating habits.  She's at the point where she is about ready to give up on treatment.  You probably heard the whole, I've lived a long full life speech, yourself

Sorry to hear about your mom bro.

A few things...

What cancer needs to survive and flourish: 1- sugar. 2- an acidic environment. 3- A HYPOxic environment.

Get her on a low carb diet ASAP, start researching alkalinizing foods and supplements and get her on as much good stuff as possible. Dont know what her exact level of health is but even a few minutes of walking and slightly increased heart rate will be helpful to try to get some oxygen in her system.

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2013, 09:01:24 AM »
C-Flex and Krankensteiner are both great athletes and spokespeople for their field.

This means much coming from you my friend. Printing this page out right now and hanging it on my fridge. This is a memorable day.

Archer77

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2013, 09:01:54 AM »
Sorry to hear about your mom bro.

A few things...

What cancer needs to survive and flourish: 1- sugar. 2- an acidic environment. 3- A HYPOxic environment.

Get her on a low carb diet ASAP, start researching alkalinizing foods and supplements and get her on as much good stuff as possible. Dont know what her exact level of health is but even a few minutes of walking and slightly increased heart rate will be helpful to try to get some oxygen in her system.

I will do that.  I appreciate the info. I meant to include you in the mesaage, Chiro.  I remember reading a bit about cancer and sugar.  Fascinating stuff.  Sugar is ubiquitous and hard to escape.  It's crammed into every product as a filler.  
A

bigmc

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2013, 09:02:26 AM »
What happened? Did you end up walking out of the session?

i had about 20 sessions and got worse and worse

i eventually went to a sports physio who spent months getting me back to normal

the guy that treated me should be struck off

he just kept saying you will get worse before you get better

c u n t
T

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2013, 09:03:37 AM »
i wouldn't listen to what students told u.  I have never seen one single case of a chiropractor deliberately trying to hurt someone. I don't know of this guy u r taking about tho. We're u injured from the treatment?

You wouldn't listen to students who have been told by their professors NOT to do exactly what he did to me since the day they started university?  This man's fucking boyfriend even came up to me afterwards and said "you ok?  he did that on purpose".  WTF?  

This is what happened.  I was laying on my back on the table, he was at the end near my feet.  (I was still wearing shoes), he picked up both feet and pressed them together so my feet and ankles were touching.  He had one hand on the top (12 oclock position) and the other hand at the bottom on my heels (6 oclock position) Then he started moving them upward to the left, downwards to center, upwards to the right.  Sort of a gentle swaying "V" shape movement.  He said that it was designed to see how the flexibility of my hips were and some other reason (I forgot what he was observing).  He did this for a couple of minutes and when I was relaxed he suddenly just brought them to the center and WRENCHED my legs around like he was turning a huge steering wheel.  My toes were at the 9 oclock position and my heels at 3 oclock position,..

Seriously when a junior student tells you "they told us to never ever do that to a patient" what do you think he was doing?


Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2013, 09:08:49 AM »
I will do that.  I appreciate the info. I meant to include you in the mesaage, Chiro.  I remember reading a bit about cancer and sugar.  Fascinating stuff.  Sugar is ubiquitous and hard to escape.  It's crammed into every product as a filler.  

Ever heard of a PET scan? Positron Emission Tomography. Doctors attach radioactive tracers to a glucose (sugar) molecule and inject the patient. Then they use a scan image to see where the glucose is being metabolized the fastest....they know cancer thrives on sugar, so it gives the exact location of the cancer cells. So, that leads us to conclude....WHY THE FUCK AREN'T MORE ONCOLOGISTS STRESSING THE IMPORTANCE OF MINIMIZNG SUGAR AND CARBOHYDRATE CONSUMPTION??? .