Estimate Trey Brewer's current bodyfat

[KillerMonk]

While there are variances - Dex has a faster metabolism - would the body's chemistry be all that different?

Scientifically, why would Dexter make better gains at 12% than at 30%, and why would brewer make better gains at 12% than 30%?

This is just for the sake of debate... if Trey is flat at the Jr nats, then we'll see maybe overdieting to compensate for over bodyfat isn't the way to go.  if he has a new inch or two on his arms and chest, then yes, Trey laughs last, and he knew what he was doing all along.

Scientifically though - I'd like to know what is the most effective bodyfat range for gaining muscle:
10 to 12%
or
25 to 30%
or
doesn't matter
or
"depends", which will require an explanation.

When i was using i believed in growing into the physique like the guys in the 70s and there is living proof that this can also work in modern BB with Kevin Levrone taking 20 weeks to be ready,check him out in the BFTO2002 his upperbody was incredible and came 2nd in the 2002 MrO
IMO bulking for a natural is totally counterproductive

[Deadpool]

lol

sitting on the crapper reading Justins book like it's the Bible ain't gunna help
 

[240 is Back]

There is no "most effective range" (so many variables/anabolics/age/weight/metabolism etc)..............to gain muscle

This directly contradicts T-Nation and Troponin's book.

I'll break down the list of reasons trop gave which indicated why 10% BF creates a more anabolic enviroonment than 25%.

[I ETA PI]

There is no "most effective range" (so many variables/anabolics/age/weight/metabolism etc)..............to gain muscle you must cause trauma to the muscle tissue (in effect breaking the tissue down and forcing it to build it self up just a little bit bigger/stronger to adapt/get ready in case it faces this new found stress ie: weight training again)
you must overload the body with protien (and yes carbs) ...........think of putting a glass out in a rain shower
the glass doesn't find the one or two drops of rain ..............it's overloaded with rain (protien) so the glass get's filled!
you cannot stay lean (ripped) and make major gains (bulk up keeping your abs visible) use heavier weights which in turn gives you bigger muscles!,it's not rocket science (altho some supplement companies would like you to think so)
we as bodybuilders are never satisfied/content.we always strive to get bigger/better (it's an ongoing process)
when you are satisfied that's when your gains will stop!
"Eat Big,Lift Big,Sleep Big"

Using these methods, how much size have you added in the past 5 years? 

[michael arvilla]

Using these methods, how much size have you added in the past 5 years? 

Hmmm.........i started out at 155 lbs (at almost 6 ft 2" ) when i was 25 years old
the thing is every time you "get up to a certain weight/size" then cut up,the next time you get to that weight it's more solid....let me explain : im 250 lbs right now (and that's with abs)
my 250 lbs 7-8 years ago was vastly different (very bloated/fat).....it takes time/years (bulking up then cutting) trying to add a pound or two of quality muscle per years isn't going to cut it
just the weight means nothing (as my 250 lbs years ago shows us).............your body has to "get used to a certain weight".like i said it's a long process and you will shortchange that process if you stay too lean

[nukkaready]

boobs on a dude are just not nice to look at.

[michael arvilla]

This is a better example of what I'm talking about (and yes I'm "putting myself out there" to try and help/educate some of you)

250 lbs years ago  vs 250 lbs now............same weight but much more solid/leaner/harder

[KillerMonk]

This is a better example of what I'm talking about (and yes I'm "putting myself out there" to try and help/educate some of you)

250 lbs years ago  vs 250 lbs now............same weight but much more solid/leaner/harder

Have you used in that period

[rocket]

There is no "most effective range" (so many variables/anabolics/age/weight/metabolism etc)..............

Do you have any research backing this up or is this your gut feeling?  Several documents/papers etc disagree with your statement. 

Here is some very plain logic for you

Get too fat and sloppy and you might find yourself spend several extra bulking cycles worth of time cutting fat out.  Fact of the matter is many pro's have got too fat and a number of them have publicly stated that they got too fat and they wouldn't be doing that again.   In the region Trey is in, he will be spending quite a bit longer than his competitors getting ready.

[Stavios]

This is a better example of what I'm talking about (and yes I'm "putting myself out there" to try and help/educate some of you)

250 lbs years ago  vs 250 lbs now............same weight but much more solid/leaner/harder

I am 150% sur that if you stayed lean all those years the results would have been the same at the end

(now when I say lean I mean 10-12% wich is moooooooooooore than enough fat on someone's body to put on size)

[240 is Back]

Get too fat and sloppy and you might find yourself spend several extra bulking cycles worth of time cutting fat out.  Fact of the matter is many pro's have got too fat and a number of them have publicly stated that they got too fat and they wouldn't be doing that again.   In the region Trey is in, he will be spending quite a bit longer than his competitors getting ready.

It's not just the add'l dieting stressors.

There's more.

According to Justin Harris, renowned Bbing nutritionist, paraphrased:

in natural athetes, 10-12% bodyfat is the level where the body is most effective at producing testosterone.
As bodyfat levels increase, the body becomes more effective at pumping out estrogen.

http://www.troponinnutrition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=26&Itemid=51

[The Squadfather]

Trop is a beast and a credit to the game.

[michael arvilla]

It's not just the add'l dieting stressors.

There's more.

According to Justin Harris, renowned Bbing nutritionist, paraphrased:

in natural athetes, 10-12% bodyfat is the level where the body is most effective at producing testosterone.
As bodyfat levels increase, the body becomes more effective at pumping out estrogen.

http://www.troponinnutrition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=26&Itemid=51

do what you want to................all im saying if your a "competitive bodybuilder" who wants to get "huge"
it ain't going to happen staying at 10 -12 % year round

[240 is Back]

can you find one offseason pic of ruhl, from his 15-20 year of competition, where he goes over 20% bodyfat?

(I just like to argue Mike, you know that )

[Laura Lee]

I am 150% sur that if you stayed lean all those years the results would have been the same at the end

(now when I say lean I mean 10-12% wich is moooooooooooore than enough fat on someone's body to put on size)

Actually, I have a friend who is a National Level Competitor who did exactly that.  Stayed that lean for almost a years time, busted their ass in the gym all that time and didn't gain any size.  I am sure it is all "different strokes for different folks".  Not all are going to get the same results out of the same things.  It IS all trial and error. 

[The Squadfather]

problem is that once you're at the level of muscle mass of guys like Ronnie, Jay, Ruhl, etc. you've pretty much topped out and it's not like you're gonna put on 10 pounds of lean tissue for every show no matter how much you weigh in the offseason.

[240 is Back]

Actually, I have a friend who is a National Level Competitor who did exactly that.  Stayed that lean for almost a years time, busted their ass in the gym all that time and didn't gain any size.  I am sure it is all "different strokes for different folks".  Not all are going to get the same results out of the same things.  It IS all trial and error. 

It's likely your friend was eating right at maintenance level of calories, but not EXTRA calories required for growth.

Adding 500 per day (above what his body needed) would have put 1 pound per week on his frame.

[kyomu]

Actually, I have a friend who is a National Level Competitor who did exactly that.  Stayed that lean for almost a years time, busted their ass in the gym all that time and didn't gain any size.  I am sure it is all "different strokes for different folks".  Not all are going to get the same results out of the same things.  It IS all trial and error. 

correct.

[chester_bbb]

TAR aka Quagmire is a big fuccker, not as big as Trey but still pretty jacked.

You're not so small yourself squadfather.

[michael arvilla]

can you find one offseason pic of ruhl, from his 15-20 year of competition, where he goes over 20% bodyfat?

(I just like to argue Mike, you know that )

THis one person we know stays lean all year round (never moves up in weight classes,kinna always looks the same show after show............year after year)
other person is over 300 lbs right now (lotta "buzz" about him)moved up in weight class/judges..people really taking notice of him ...........added size/thickness to almost all his bodyparts (brought up "weaknesses" as well)
seems to me to be a "no-brainer"

here ya go Rob..............Marcus over 20 % in this pic!

[bigkid]

Trey going so heavy in the offseason is a huge mistake.  Look at lee Priest.  Look at the detail he had in his legs early in his career and look at them late in his career.  Look at Kamali.  There is no reason to get that far out of shape.  Fat cells only shrink, they don't disappear.  They more you add, the less detail your gonna have IMO.

[michael arvilla]

Melvin Anthony.........all "bulked up"

[240 is Back]

THis one person we know stays lean all year round (never moves up in weight classes,kinna always looks the same show after show............year after year)
other person is over 300 lbs right now (lotta "buzz" about him)moved up in weight class/judges..people really taking notice of him ...........added size/thickness to almost all his bodyparts (brought up "weaknesses" as well)
seems to me to be a "no-brainer"

The solution might be in the MIDDLE, not extremes.
You have one guy who doesn't get any add'l calories, so scientifically CANNOT add new muscle.
You have another guy who adds fat cells to his body every year unnecessarily.

The best option might be to give the body 500 to 1000 calories above maintenance level, per day.  That would equate to 1 to 2 pounds added to the body per week, barring minimal metabolic fluctuations.  Optimal anabolic environment, minimal estrogen issues, and fewest new fat cells.

That's all I'm getting at.  

here ya go Rob..............Marcus over 20 % in this pic!

That's not Lee Priest.

[240 is Back]

Melvin Anthony.........all "bulked up"

Melvin is WAY under 20% bodyfat there.  Just a whole lotta water.

[michael arvilla]

Melvin is WAY under 20% bodyfat there.  Just a whole lotta water.

hmmmmm ..............i notice you didn't comment on the Marcus Ruhl picture lol!
all im advocating is to get big (truly big) you gotta bulk (keep your abs visible)
look at Kai Greene (hes over 300 lbs right now and has a lotta "buzz",we are
talking pros here (like Trey Brewer) not you and I