Author Topic: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID  (Read 4094 times)

Vince G, CSN MFT

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 >:(

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/texas-woman-threatened-jail-after-applying-voter-id

Lynne Messinger’s account highlights the obstacles that some Texans face as they try to obtain a voter ID — despite the state’s assurances that getting one doesn’t pose a burden.

Messinger, 62 and a musician, said she brought her birth certificate to a Texas’ Department of Public Safety (DPS) office in south Austin Thursday in an effort to get a voter ID. She needs one because Texas’s strict ID law doesn’t accept out-of-state driver’s licenses.

Messinger said she spoke to a clerk at the desk, and explained that she had a California driver’s license. She has houses in both California and Texas and goes back and forth between the two, but decided several years ago to switch her voting residency to Texas.

The clerk left for a few minutes, then told her to take a seat. At that point, Messinger said, a state trooper summoned her into his back office, saying he needed to speak to her. Once inside his office, Messinger said the trooper insisted on seeing all the documentation she had brought, and demanded to know where she lives and pays taxes. He even told her she could be jailed for driving with a California license.* It is illegal to drive in Texas on another state’s driver’s license 90 days after moving into the state.

“It was like a Nazi interrogation about how I cant be driving with a California ID,” Messinger said. “I was completely intimidated and freaked out.”

The trooper denies threatening jail or arrest during the conversation, according to Summer Blackwell of the DPS. Blackwell said DPS was willing to reach out to Messinger to help her obtain a voter ID.

“I’m from New York originally, and talking to policemen was not like a big deal to me,” Messinger added. “This was scary as hell. There was nothing civil about the way he was talking to me.”

Messinger said she answered the trooper’s questions and eventually was allowed to leave. But by then she was so unnerved that she left without getting her ID, and now doesn’t plan to get one in time to vote.

“I’m well-traveled, I’m not easily intimidated,” she said. “This guy scared the hell out of me. I can just imagine what other people – a little housewife or a Latino or whatever walks in there and this happens to them …”

Adding insult to injury, Messinger said she’d been trying for over a year to get the documents she needed. She first went to a DPS office to get a voter ID last summer, but was turned away because she didn’t have a birth certificate. That led to a months-long process where she frequently spent hours uploading documents in an effort to get a birth certificate from New York, where she was born.  Eventually she succeeded, only to be scared off at the DPS office.

Texas’s voter ID law was struck down earlier this month by a federal judge who ruled it racially discriminatory, but was reinstated for the election thanks to the Supreme Court. The difficulty of obtaining an ID was central to Judge Nelva Gonzales Ramos’s opinion. The state admitted at trial it had not conducted a public information campaign to publicize the existence of the state IDs it created for those without other photo identification, beyond issuing an English-only press release. At the end of August, the state said it had given out just 279 voter ID cards in the 14 months that it had been issuing them.


Asked about the incident, a spokeswoman for the state’s Department of Public Safety pledged to respond but did not immediately do so.

As for Messinger, she said though she might not vote this year, she’s not taking it sitting down. “I will do everything it takes to do something about what’s going on here, because this is crazy,” she said. “I’m 62 years old. I’ve been voting for a long time, and this is just bullshit.”

*Correction: An earlier version of this story stated that it was not illegal to drive in Texas with a California driver’s license. In fact, it is illegal to drive in Texas on another state’s driver license 90 days after moving into the state.
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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2014, 05:57:09 AM »
What nonsense.   

Kazan

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2014, 06:08:03 AM »
Title of thread should be Texas woman threated with jail for not complying with Texas DL law
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Carlton G. Long

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2014, 06:24:35 AM »
>:(

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/texas-woman-threatened-jail-after-applying-voter-id

Lynne Messinger’s account highlights the obstacles that some Texans face as they try to obtain a voter ID — despite the state’s assurances that getting one doesn’t pose a burden.

Messinger, 62 and a musician, said she brought her birth certificate to a Texas’ Department of Public Safety (DPS) office in south Austin Thursday in an effort to get a voter ID. She needs one because Texas’s strict ID law doesn’t accept out-of-state driver’s licenses.

Messinger said she spoke to a clerk at the desk, and explained that she had a California driver’s license. She has houses in both California and Texas and goes back and forth between the two, but decided several years ago to switch her voting residency to Texas.

The clerk left for a few minutes, then told her to take a seat. At that point, Messinger said, a state trooper summoned her into his back office, saying he needed to speak to her. Once inside his office, Messinger said the trooper insisted on seeing all the documentation she had brought, and demanded to know where she lives and pays taxes. He even told her she could be jailed for driving with a California license.* It is illegal to drive in Texas on another state’s driver’s license 90 days after moving into the state.

“It was like a Nazi interrogation about how I cant be driving with a California ID,” Messinger said. “I was completely intimidated and freaked out.”

The trooper denies threatening jail or arrest during the conversation, according to Summer Blackwell of the DPS. Blackwell said DPS was willing to reach out to Messinger to help her obtain a voter ID.

“I’m from New York originally, and talking to policemen was not like a big deal to me,” Messinger added. “This was scary as hell. There was nothing civil about the way he was talking to me.”

Messinger said she answered the trooper’s questions and eventually was allowed to leave. But by then she was so unnerved that she left without getting her ID, and now doesn’t plan to get one in time to vote.

“I’m well-traveled, I’m not easily intimidated,” she said. “This guy scared the hell out of me. I can just imagine what other people – a little housewife or a Latino or whatever walks in there and this happens to them …”

Adding insult to injury, Messinger said she’d been trying for over a year to get the documents she needed. She first went to a DPS office to get a voter ID last summer, but was turned away because she didn’t have a birth certificate. That led to a months-long process where she frequently spent hours uploading documents in an effort to get a birth certificate from New York, where she was born.  Eventually she succeeded, only to be scared off at the DPS office.

Texas’s voter ID law was struck down earlier this month by a federal judge who ruled it racially discriminatory, but was reinstated for the election thanks to the Supreme Court. The difficulty of obtaining an ID was central to Judge Nelva Gonzales Ramos’s opinion. The state admitted at trial it had not conducted a public information campaign to publicize the existence of the state IDs it created for those without other photo identification, beyond issuing an English-only press release. At the end of August, the state said it had given out just 279 voter ID cards in the 14 months that it had been issuing them.


Asked about the incident, a spokeswoman for the state’s Department of Public Safety pledged to respond but did not immediately do so.

As for Messinger, she said though she might not vote this year, she’s not taking it sitting down. “I will do everything it takes to do something about what’s going on here, because this is crazy,” she said. “I’m 62 years old. I’ve been voting for a long time, and this is just bullshit.”

*Correction: An earlier version of this story stated that it was not illegal to drive in Texas with a California driver’s license. In fact, it is illegal to drive in Texas on another state’s driver license 90 days after moving into the state.


what do her age and the fact that she calls herself a "musician" have to do with anything?

she's obviously lying

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 09:10:36 AM »
I strongly suspect that the people working in these local DPS offices are told to do whatever they can to discourage or make it more difficult to obtain a "voter ID".    These laws were created for the sole purpose of suppressing the vote so actually letting people get voter ID's defeats the purpose.   This story indicates that in the 14 months that this type of "voter ID" has been available that only 279 voter ID cards have been issued.  That defies common sense.  If these cards are so easy to get then why do we keep hearing stories about how difficult they are to get and why have there only been 279 cards issued

Here is what I would recommend to this woman

Forget about informing the government that you intend to vote by applying for a voter ID card

Instead apply for a Concealed Handgun License.

You don't need a birth certificate and from what I've seen online you can use out of state Driver's License if you don't have one issued from Texas

The benefit of this is that while you're applying for a form of valid voter ID you're not actually revealing your nefarious intention to vote


headhuntersix

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2014, 11:03:31 AM »
You have to have a Texas license here. They're fucking dicks. My wife got hassled and she'd be a poster child for the Hitler youth at 5'11 and blonde. They don't have income tax so everything is a money grab and if you don't have your shit straight they come after you. While I have doubts this is how it went down....I don't doubt they gave her the runaround so they could collect more cash.
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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2014, 11:49:38 AM »
You have to have a Texas license here. They're fucking dicks. My wife got hassled and she'd be a poster child for the Hitler youth at 5'11 and blonde. They don't have income tax so everything is a money grab and if you don't have your shit straight they come after you. While I have doubts this is how it went down....I don't doubt they gave her the runaround so they could collect more cash.

you're referring to your wife getting a voter ID in Texas?

headhuntersix

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2014, 12:14:36 PM »
I'm referring to my wife getting pulled over and having an out of state license and explaining to the tax collector in uniform that by Texas law, military is exempt.
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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2014, 12:17:20 PM »
I strongly suspect that the people working in these local DPS offices are told to do whatever they can to discourage or make it more difficult to obtain a "voter ID".    These laws were created for the sole purpose of suppressing the vote so actually letting people get voter ID's defeats the purpose.   This story indicates that in the 14 months that this type of "voter ID" has been available that only 279 voter ID cards have been issued.  That defies common sense.  If these cards are so easy to get then why do we keep hearing stories about how difficult they are to get and why have there only been 279 cards issued

Here is what I would recommend to this woman

Forget about informing the government that you intend to vote by applying for a voter ID card

Instead apply for a Concealed Handgun License.

You don't need a birth certificate and from what I've seen online you can use out of state Driver's License if you don't have one issued from Texas

The benefit of this is that while you're applying for a form of valid voter ID you're not actually revealing your nefarious intention to vote


yes, if you keep saying the "SOLE intention is to discourage voters", then eventually it may actually become fact.

Straw Man

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2014, 12:24:06 PM »
yes, if you keep saying the "SOLE intention is to discourage voters", then eventually it may actually become fact.

yep, and that's not just my conclusion but the conclusion on many courts who have rejected these laws and even the conclusion of the conservative icon Richard Posner who was the judge who originally upheld the first voter ID law.

On top of that you have Republican bragging about the effect of these laws in suppressing the vote for Democrats.   Should I not take them at their words since they are the ones who created the laws

Here are some salient quotes from Posner
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/richard-posner-dissent-voter-id

Quote
—"As there is no evidence that voter-impersonation fraud is a problem, how can the fact that a legislature says it's a problem turn it into one? If the Wisconsin legislature says witches are a problem, shall Wisconsin courts be permitted to conduct witch trials?"

—"There is no evidence that Wisconsin's voter rolls are inflated — as were Indiana's — and there is compelling evidence that voter-impersonation fraud is essentially nonexistent in Wisconsin."

—"The panel opinion states that requiring a photo ID might at least prevent persons who 'are too young or are not citizens' from voting. Not so. State-issued IDs are available to noncitizens ... — all that's required is proof of 'legal presence in the United States[.]'

—"This implies that the net effect of such requirements is to impede voting by people easily discouraged from voting, most of whom probably lean Democratic."

—"The panel opinion does not discuss the cost of obtaining a photo ID. It assumes the cost is negligible. That's an easy assumption for federal judges to make, since we are given photo IDs by court security free of charge. And we have upper-middle-class salaries. Not everyone is so fortunate."

—"There is only one motivation for imposing burdens on voting that are ostensibly designed to discourage voter-impersonation fraud, if there is no actual danger of such fraud, and that is to discourage voting by persons likely to vote against the party responsible for imposing the burdens."

—"The authors’ overall assessment is that 'voter ID laws don’t disenfranchise minorities or reduce minority voting, and in many instances enhance it' [emphasis added]. In other words, the authors believe that the net effect of these laws is to increase minority voting. Yet if that is true, the opposition to these laws by liberal groups is senseless. If photo ID laws increase minority voting, liberals should rejoice in the laws and conservatives deplore them. Yet it is conservatives who support them and liberals who oppose them. Unless conservatives and liberals are masochists, promoting laws that hurt them, these laws must suppress minority voting and the question then becomes whether there are offsetting social benefits—the evidence is that there are not."

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2014, 12:29:22 PM »
yep, and that's not just my conclusion but the conclusion on many courts who have rejected these laws and even the conclusion of the conservative icon Richard Posner who was the judge who originally upheld the first voter ID law.

On top of that you have Republican bragging about the effect of these laws in suppressing the vote for Democrats.   Should I not take them at their words since they are the ones who created the laws

Here are some salient quotes from Posner
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/richard-posner-dissent-voter-id

yep, keep saying it and ignoring any possible positives and one day it just might become true.

Cause, you know, because a couple people share your OPINION means it must be FACT and therefore you can totally present it as such.

Lol.

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2014, 12:37:10 PM »
yep, keep saying it and ignoring any possible positives and one day it just might become true.

Cause, you know, because a couple people share your OPINION means it must be FACT and therefore you can totally present it as such.

Lol.


Let me help you my..


The GOP's sole reason for this shit is to win elections.  That is a FACT.

If that is to hard to grasp for you maybe you should find a kids only forum and apply your thinking there. That is my OPINION.

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2014, 12:41:29 PM »
yep, keep saying it and ignoring any possible positives and one day it just might become true.

Cause, you know, because a couple people share your OPINION means it must be FACT and therefore you can totally present it as such.

Lol.

It's most definitely a fact that there is virtually zero (statistically speaking) in person voter fraud
And it's also a fact that these laws have already disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of eligible voters
It's also a fact that Republicans have openly bragged that these laws have help them to suppress democratic voters

Those are the facts that we know so far




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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2014, 12:42:04 PM »

Let me help you my..


The GOP's sole reason for this shit is to win elections.  That is a FACT.

If that is to hard to grasp for you maybe you should find a kids only forum and apply your thinking there. That is my OPINION.
Yes, keep stating your opinion that the sole reason for voter ID laws it to win elections and it might eventually become fact, keep trying little buddy, one day it just might come true.

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2014, 12:47:02 PM »
Yes, keep stating your opinion that the sole reason for voter ID laws it to win elections and it might eventually become fact, keep trying little buddy, one day it just might come true.


You are right the republicans is only doing this to protect the voting process.

Keep the faith.





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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2014, 06:55:22 AM »
this has nothing to do with a voter id card outside of the fact that this is how it came about...what a crock of fucking shit.

Hey retards, voting has actually increased dramatically in Texas since the voter ID law has passed.....

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2014, 07:18:06 AM »
It's most definitely a fact that there is virtually zero (statistically speaking) in person voter fraud
And it's also a fact that these laws have already disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of eligible voters
It's also a fact that Republicans have openly bragged that these laws have help them to suppress democratic voters

Those are the facts that we know so far




way to change your original statement.

You said 'these laws were created for the sole purpose of suppressing the vote', which is a statement of fact, which you then went on to try and back up using others OPINIONS

From that we can see that you clearly have no clue what the difference is between a fact and a opinion.

Let me help you:
you cannot possibly prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the sole reason behind these laws is voter suppression.

You are taking others OPINIONS on the intentions of the laws, along with some statistical facts that arent necessarily the whole story anyway (considering voter turnout INCREASED in texas, the exact opposite of what you were screaming would happen), and using them to support your OPINION that the sole reason for these laws is to suppress votes.

Until every single person backing/writing these laws says "yes, the only reason we wrote/backed these laws was to suppress voter turnout", your "fact" is not a fact at all.

Its just you trying to pass off your OPINION as fact, hoping that itll stick.

HTH

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2014, 08:27:20 AM »
way to change your original statement.

You said 'these laws were created for the sole purpose of suppressing the vote', which is a statement of fact, which you then went on to try and back up using others OPINIONS

From that we can see that you clearly have no clue what the difference is between a fact and a opinion.

Let me help you:
you cannot possibly prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the sole reason behind these laws is voter suppression.

You are taking others OPINIONS on the intentions of the laws, along with some statistical facts that arent necessarily the whole story anyway (considering voter turnout INCREASED in texas, the exact opposite of what you were screaming would happen), and using them to support your OPINION that the sole reason for these laws is to suppress votes.

Until every single person backing/writing these laws says "yes, the only reason we wrote/backed these laws was to suppress voter turnout", your "fact" is not a fact at all.

Its just you trying to pass off your OPINION as fact, hoping that itll stick.

HTH

you have it completely ASS BACKWARDS

my statement that these laws were created SOLELY to suppress voting is my opinion

the content of the post to which you responded are the facts that support my opinion

here are the facts again

feel free to address them if you are able

It's most definitely a fact that there is virtually zero (statistically speaking) in person voter fraud
And it's also a fact that these laws have already disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of eligible voters
It's also a fact that Republicans have openly bragged that these laws have help them to suppress democratic voters

Those are the facts that we know so far





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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2014, 09:01:46 AM »
you have it completely ASS BACKWARDS

my statement that these laws were created SOLELY to suppress voting is my opinion

the content of the post to which you responded are the facts that support my opinion

here are the facts again

feel free to address them if you are able

like i said, way to try and dance around your original statement.

'These laws were created solely to suppress votes', stated as a FACT.

I called you on it and now youre suddenly trying to shift the argument like you always do when you get called out.

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2014, 09:30:11 AM »
like i said, way to try and dance around your original statement.

'These laws were created solely to suppress votes', stated as a FACT.

I called you on it and now youre suddenly trying to shift the argument like you always do when you get called out.

I absolutely believe that is factually correct  (i.e. a statement supported by facts) but I never said my statement was a fact

You were the one who attempted to say that

I see you have failed to address the 3 actual facts that I gave you

Here's another fact

The Federal Judge who over-ruled the Texas Voter ID law stated this

Gonzales Ramos’ ruling says the law “creates an unconstitutional burden on the right to vote, has an impermissible discriminatory effect against Hispanics and African-Americans, and was imposed with an unconstitutional discriminatory purpose.” It added that the measure: “constitutes an unconstitutional poll tax.”

Poll Taxes were created to suppress voter turnout

Voter ID laws are the equivalent of a poll tax

Now how about just go back and refute the first 3 facts I gave you in support of my statement

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2014, 09:38:01 AM »
I absolutely believe that is factually correct  (i.e. a statement supported by facts) but I never said my statement was a fact

You were the one who attempted to say that

I see you have failed to address the 3 actual facts that I gave you

Here's another fact

The Federal Judge who over-ruled the Texas Voter ID law stated this

Gonzales Ramos’ ruling says the law “creates an unconstitutional burden on the right to vote, has an impermissible discriminatory effect against Hispanics and African-Americans, and was imposed with an unconstitutional discriminatory purpose.” It added that the measure: “constitutes an unconstitutional poll tax.”

Poll Taxes were created to suppress voter turnout

Voter ID laws are the equivalent of a poll tax

Now how about just go back and refute the first 3 facts I gave you in support of my statement

Well here is the problem, in order to vote you have to be a US citizen. So if identification is required, you call is suppressing voters. If no ID is required, how can it be verified that the person casting a vote is a US citizen?
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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2014, 09:43:39 AM »
Well here is the problem, in order to vote you have to be a US citizen. So if identification is required, you call is suppressing voters. If no ID is required, how can it be verified that the person casting a vote is a US citizen?

mere "identification" is not the issue and it's not just me who is calling it "suppressing voters"

The Courts have said it

The GAO report has said that is the effect

Republicans have bragged about it

Edit - I forgot to mention that Richard Posner addressed the argument that these laws prevent non-citizens from voting

Quote
"The panel opinion states that requiring a photo ID might at least prevent persons who 'are too young or are not citizens' from voting. Not so. State-issued IDs are available to noncitizens ... — all that's required is proof of 'legal presence in the United States

Kazan

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Re: Elderly Texas woman threatened with jail after applying for voter ID
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2014, 12:55:48 PM »
mere "identification" is not the issue and it's not just me who is calling it "suppressing voters"

The Courts have said it

The GAO report has said that is the effect

Republicans have bragged about it

Edit - I forgot to mention that Richard Posner addressed the argument that these laws prevent non-citizens from voting


Well apparently the courts are undecided since it has been reinstated in Texas.

Government Account Ability Office LOL what an oxymoron

Republicans  ::)

So basically since .gov gives ID's to illegals, a DL or State ID is not proof of citizenship, hmmmm no wonder there is much scrutiny when getting a Voter ID

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