Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting

[Dos Equis]

Hell yeah.  I am ready for this shit.  I got my map of places to hit already planned out.  And even borrowed my neighbors handicap sticker so I can park up close and won't have to spend a lot of time running back and forth the car.  Not that I expect a lot of other fellow looters out.  The approaching tropical storm will keep the blaques inside.  And my stores to hit are not on the bus line.

Screw that.  I'd be inside protecting my stuff.   

[Dos Equis]

Interesting comment by the use of force expert:

Root estimated the fight between Zimmerman and Martin lasted for at least 40 seconds.

"[People in law enforcement] have a golden rule. If you have not successfully completed the fight, if you have not won the fight in 30 seconds, change tactics because the tactics you are using are not working," said Root.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/10/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-day-12?hpt=hp_c2

[avxo]

You indicated earlier that you have not been following the case, so how do you know what the evidence showed? 

My opinion means something to me.  It obviously means nothing to the jury.  But thanks for pointing out the obvious.  I’ve been saying for weeks I have no idea what the jury will do.  Still don’t. 

Zimmerman isn’t using “stand your ground” as a defense, but you’d know that if you were actually following the case. 

Yes, it makes sense to me Martin could have been charged with a crime, because the evidence shows he beat the crap out of Zimmerman. 

I haven't watched the events unfold or paid much attention. But I have read a few articles here and there describing what's happening, and then there's the wonderful thread on here that's full of objective analyses!

I do not know the particulars of zimmerman's defense strategy nor do I think they matter. My question was hypothetical: if Zimmerman could invoke "stand your ground" shouldn't Martin have been able to as well, of he weren't dead? After all, being followed/pursued by someone at night can lead someone to be genuinely afraid about what's going to happen next.

[Jack T. Cross]

Will be interesting to hear the last comments, but it seems the prosecution has failed.  I really don't understand what they've been trying to do.  Very strange.

[Dos Equis]

I haven't watched the events unfold or paid much attention. But I have read a few articles here and there describing what's happening, and then there's the wonderful thread on here that's full of objective analyses!

I do not know the particulars of zimmerman's defense strategy nor do I think they matter. My question was hypothetical: if Zimmerman could invoke "stand your ground" shouldn't Martin have been able to as well, of he weren't dead? After all, being followed/pursued by someone at night can lead someone to be genuinely afraid about what's going to happen next.

In other words, you really are not in a position say that I've been overstating anything, because you "haven't watched the events unfold or paid much attention."  But of course that doesn't mean you cannot have an opinion.  It's just not a very informed opinion. 

Of course the particulars of Zimmerman's defense matter.  The only thing that matters is what he is actually using as a defense.  He has not invoked "stand your ground."  He is relying on traditional self-defense. 

I don't know what Martin could have done if he wasn't dead.  Haven't thought about it.   

[tonymctones]

LOL prosecution is now backing off their claim that zimmerman was on top of trayvon.

Asking the use of force witness today, if the gun shot would have been consistent if trayvon was on top but leaning back?

SO...first it was that zimmerman was on top and now it is trayvon was on top...

REASONABLE DOUBT MORONS!!!!

[Jack T. Cross]

Makes me wonder what the person directly representing the parents has said to them, about the way the case has been handled.

[Dos Equis]

LOL prosecution is now backing off their claim that zimmerman was on top of trayvon.

Asking the use of force witness today, if the gun shot would have been consistent if trayvon was on top but leaning back?

SO...first it was that zimmerman was on top and now it is trayvon was on top...

REASONABLE DOUBT MORONS!!!!

They also tried to say that Martin could have started yelling for help, while he was on top of Zimmerman, but after he saw the gun.   

[tonymctones]

Makes me wonder what the person directly representing the parents has said to them, about the way the case has been handled.

handled about as good as it could have been with the facts of the case, they cant make up facts like you guys have

[Dos Equis]

Shameful.  http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justice/sanford-bill-lee-exclusive/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[tonymctones]

If zimmerman is acquitted I want those ppl who were fired to sue the fack out of the sanford police department

[Shockwave]

Well, looks like they asked to include manslaughter AND other lesser charges.

How pathetic, they failed to prove his guilt on their original charge, so theyre just throwing shit at him trying to make somethinf stick. This is a fucking mockery of justice

[tonymctones]

I honestly dont know if they have even proved manslaughter, the prosecution has no real facts to support their case only circumstantial evidence and hear say.

reasonable doubt all over the place no matter what they try and charge him with.

[Dos Equis]

The only thing the prosecution proved was that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. 

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

You indicated earlier that you have not been following the case, so how do you know what the evidence showed? 

My opinion means something to me.  It obviously means nothing to the jury.  But thanks for pointing out the obvious.  I’ve been saying for weeks I have no idea what the jury will do.  Still don’t. 

Zimmerman isn’t using “stand your ground” as a defense, but you’d know that if you were actually following the case. 

Yes, it makes sense to me Martin could have been charged with a crime, because the evidence shows he beat the crap out of Zimmerman. 

Yes, Zimmerman did get the shit beat out of him....no doubt.  That's why I think that Zimmerman tried to capture him because that's the only why I would think that Trayvon would do so....he was fighting to get away from him and as a result, Zimmerman went and shot him somewhere in the process.  

You can't go and pick a fight with someone and then claim self defense when the person obviously decides to fight back....that's ridiculous.

[Shockwave]

Yes, Zimmerman did get the shit beat out of him....no doubt.  That's why I think that Zimmerman tried to capture him because that's the only why I would think that Trayvon would do so....he was fighting to get away from him and as a result, Zimmerman went and shot him somewhere in the process.  

You can't go and pick a fight with someone and then claim self defense when the person obviously decides to fight back....that's ridiculous.

or trayvon could just be a dick and decide to beat the shit out of the fat mexican that bothered him as he was walking (more likely considering martins history of fighting).

[Dos Equis]

Well, looks like they asked to include manslaughter AND other lesser charges.

How pathetic, they failed to prove his guilt on their original charge, so theyre just throwing shit at him trying to make somethinf stick. This is a fucking mockery of justice

Yep. 

"Prosecutors asked the court Wednesday to let jurors consider two charges other than murder in relation to Martin's death: manslaughter and aggravated assault. Zimmerman's lawyers objected, saying it should be murder or nothing."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justice/zimmerman-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

[Fury]

or trayvon could just be a dick and decide to beat the shit out of the fat mexican that bothered him as he was walking (more likely considering martins history of fighting).

Yup.

Ex-Sanford Police Chief Says He Was Pressured By City Officials To Arrest Zimmerman Even Though He Already Cleared Him Of Any Wrongdoing

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justice/sanford-bill-lee-exclusive/index.html

[tonymctones]

Yes, Zimmerman did get the shit beat out of him....no doubt.  That's why I think that Zimmerman tried to capture him because that's the only why I would think that Trayvon would do so....he was fighting to get away from him and as a result, Zimmerman went and shot him somewhere in the process. 

You can't go and pick a fight with someone and then claim self defense when the person obviously decides to fight back....that's ridiculous.

someone trying to get away doesnt mount, bounce the head on concrete and punch the person they are trying to get away from...actually in Florida you can start a fight and then try to back away and claim self defense.

even if zimmerman started the fight, which there is absolutely no proof of and he after starting the fight tried to stop and disengage...like not striking trayvon and calling for help he could still claim self defense.

[Dos Equis]

Yes, Zimmerman did get the shit beat out of him....no doubt.  That's why I think that Zimmerman tried to capture him because that's the only why I would think that Trayvon would do so....he was fighting to get away from him and as a result, Zimmerman went and shot him somewhere in the process.  

You can't go and pick a fight with someone and then claim self defense when the person obviously decides to fight back....that's ridiculous.

All of the evidence is in.  Plenty of evidence Martin beat the crap out of Zimmerman.  Zero evidence that Zimmerman tried to capture Martin.  Zero evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin.  Zero evidence that Zimmerman started a fight.  Zero evidence that Zimmerman even landed a single blow.  Every reliable piece of evidence points to self-defense.

You can't go beat the crap out of someone, then complain when that person happens to be armed and shoots you.  I don't care what the jury decides, there was no crime committed here by Zimmerman.      

But as I've learned from talking to numerous people, the facts don't matter.  People like you have their mind up.  Doesn't really matter what actually happened or what the evidence at trial showed.    

[Straw Man]

All of the evidence is in.  Plenty of evidence Martin beat the crap out of Zimmerman.  Zero evidence that Zimmerman tried to capture Martin.  Zero evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin.  Zero evidence that Zimmerman started a fight.  Zero evidence that Zimmerman even landed a single blow.  Every reliable piece of evidence points to self-defense.

You can't go beat the crap out of someone, then complain when that person happens to be armed and shoots you.  I don't care what the jury decides, there was no crime committed here by Zimmerman.      

But as I've learned from talking to numerous people, the facts don't matter.  People like you have their mind up.  Doesn't really matter what actually happened or what the evidence at trial showed.    

You forgot zero evidence that Martin started the fight

The question for the jury will be whether deadly force was justified

[Shockwave]

You forgot zero evidence that Martin started the fight

The question for the jury will be whether deadly force was justified

It's irrelevant that they have no evidence that martin started the fight. There is far more than a reasonable doubt that he comitted murder 2. End of story. I don't think the justification of deadly force has anything to do with convicting him of murder. It may come into play if the judge allows the lesser charges, however. (Which I'm fairly sure he will, can you imagine the ensuing shitstorm if he doesn't? Wouldn't suprise me if he will be pressured into it.)

[Dos Equis]

It's irrelevant that they have no evidence that martin started the fight. There is far more than a reasonable doubt that he comitted murder 2. End of story. I don't think the justification of deadly force has anything to do with convicting him of murder. It may come into play if the judge allows the lesser charges, however. (Which I'm fairly sure he will, can you imagine the ensuing shitstorm if he doesn't? Wouldn't suprise me if he will be pressured into it.)

He is a she (the judge).  I hope she doesn't allow the lesser included offenses, but she probably will.   

True about Martin, although it wasn't a fight.  It was a beat down by Martin. 

[Shockwave]

He is a she (the judge).  I hope she doesn't allow the lesser included offenses, but she probably will.   

True about Martin, although it wasn't a fight.  It was a beat down by Martin. 

Lol, I have just been reading articles. Not once have I turned on the TV, although I did see some highlights on CNN at the gym. It was pretty funny watching the 2 legal "experts" explain why the exact same piece of evidence was great for the defense AND the prosecution, depending on which pundit it was and whether they believed Zimmerman was guilty or not.

The woman who felt Zimmerman was guilty automatically said that the witness/defense was a "tremendous help" to the prosecution and how brilliant the prosecutor was, and the other pundit said the exact same thing except he said it helped the defense and the defense attorney. It was hilarious.

[Dos Equis]

Lol, I have just been reading articles. Not once have I turned on the TV, although I did see some highlights on CNN at the gym. It was pretty funny watching the 2 legal "experts" explain why the exact same piece of evidence was great for the defense AND the prosecution, depending on which pundit it was and whether they believed Zimmerman was guilty or not.

The woman who felt Zimmerman was guilty automatically said that the witness/defense was a "tremendous help" to the prosecution and how brilliant the prosecutor was, and the other pundit said the exact same thing except he said it helped the defense and the defense attorney. It was hilarious.

Tell me about it.  It is pretty comical.  You should hear the Martin family lawyers.  You'd think the proseuction presented a video of Zimmerman executing Martin.