Author Topic: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?  (Read 22120 times)

galeniko

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how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« on: April 25, 2012, 01:44:46 PM »
d
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makaveli25

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 01:51:36 PM »
I don't know to many bodybuilders. I've been on the forums for about ten years though. Never new anyone besides maybe 2-3 who have had real bad permanent health problems.

nicorulez

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2012, 05:37:34 PM »
Tom Prince is a pro who is on dialysis. Flex also lost his kidneys and is now status post a renal transplant. A good friend of mine who was a local BB lost his kidneys and had a transplant. I suspect it is a combination of insane amounts of juice, blood pressure that is through the roof, and a disease called secondary focal segmental glomerulosclerosis which is a disorder where the kidney is spilling a lot of protein (often nephrotic which is defined as greater than 3.5 grams of protein daily when the usual is < 150 mg/daily). FSGS causes an inflammatory condition in the kidneys locally which leads to scarring and eventual renal failure. The end result is often dialysis or transplant. I should know, I treat patients everyday for kidney disease  ;)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799287/

el numero uno

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2012, 05:57:48 PM »
I don't know to many bodybuilders. I've been on the forums for about ten years though. Never new anyone besides maybe 2-3 who have had real bad permanent health problems.

Epic denial  ::)

I'm not even a big "fan" but I can remember:

Tom prince
Flex wheeler
Dong long
Christian lobarede
Luke wood
Marko savolain (?)

And I've been in the boards for about 2 years  :-\

Marshdogg

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2012, 06:12:33 PM »
I was going to say Derek Anthony but he was really a homosexual prostitute who just 'did roids' every now and then.

Nirvana

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2012, 06:33:40 PM »
my old man.

kidneys don't really like BBing. unless you're lucky.  every pro should have a sponsor that only exists as a kidney donor.

Overload

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2012, 06:36:28 PM »
A bunch.

I know a lot of power lifters who have lost a kidney over the years or are on dialysis.

A lot of it has to do with blood pressure, but there are many aspects that can harm your kidneys.


8)

hematocritter

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2012, 08:15:53 PM »
High BP and diuretics are the main killers.
I would bet you would have a hard time finding a steroid user with bad kidneys that never used diuretics and
always had bodyfat and BP in check. Not surprising that obese water logged powerlifters and 5%bf bodybuilders
with paper thin skin sometimes have kidney issues.

Secret Stack

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2012, 08:56:55 PM »
Tom Prince is a pro who is on dialysis. Flex also lost his kidneys and is now status post a renal transplant. A good friend of mine who was a local BB lost his kidneys and had a transplant. I suspect it is a combination of insane amounts of juice, blood pressure that is through the roof, and a disease called secondary focal segmental glomerulosclerosis which is a disorder where the kidney is spilling a lot of protein (often nephrotic which is defined as greater than 3.5 grams of protein daily when the usual is < 150 mg/daily). FSGS causes an inflammatory condition in the kidneys locally which leads to scarring and eventual renal failure. The end result is often dialysis or transplant. I should know, I treat patients everyday for kidney disease  ;)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799287/


In your opinion, are the protein requirements of a bodybuilder too excessive for our kidneys to handle over a long period of time?

Agent69

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 09:30:47 PM »
Tom Prince is a pro who is on dialysis. Flex also lost his kidneys and is now status post a renal transplant. A good friend of mine who was a local BB lost his kidneys and had a transplant. I suspect it is a combination of insane amounts of juice, blood pressure that is through the roof, and a disease called secondary focal segmental glomerulosclerosis which is a disorder where the kidney is spilling a lot of protein (often nephrotic which is defined as greater than 3.5 grams of protein daily when the usual is < 150 mg/daily). FSGS causes an inflammatory condition in the kidneys locally which leads to scarring and eventual renal failure. The end result is often dialysis or transplant. I should know, I treat patients everyday for kidney disease  ;)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799287/

THIS!!!

randy841

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2012, 09:57:43 PM »
Being on dialysis is not pleasant.

I knew three individuals from the gym, two of them killed themselves after years of dialysis. Only one did amateur competitions. This was posted a while back.

Anyways ...

... it happens a lot more often than we here about it. We only hear about it because of the big names in BB being attention whores long after their days of glory, if any. Then to put icing on the cake they all play the genetic predisposition betty crocker cookie cutter bullshit card to convince the masses otherwise. We all know better.  ::)

Most users spend more time planning their cycle, then 30minutes with a doctor every few months to see if things are in order.

P.S. And watch out if you ever need surgery while juiced to the gills. One good buddy died on the table, because they could not get his blood to coagulate 7 days later. This is no joke. I cut my index finger at the gym on 1st cycle, it literally bled for 2 hours like never before. Imagine major surgery on the knees.

Health before bros and hoes!

Super Natural

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 12:51:50 AM »
Epic denial  ::)

I'm not even a big "fan" but I can remember:

Tom prince
Flex wheeler
Dong long
Christian lobarede
Luke wood
Marko savolain (?)

And I've been in the boards for about 2 years  :-\


Not to mention the 100's of BB Ameteurs world wide which go unheard of!...

I know a couple here who've died of Kidney failure and at least Five ex Am. bodybuilders here in SA who have major Kidney problems, or are awaiting Kidney transplants...

Chemical "Bodybuilding" ::)

falco

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 02:35:33 AM »
Not to mention the 100's of BB Ameteurs world wide which go unheard of!...

I know a couple here who've died of Kidney failure and at least Five ex Am. bodybuilders here in SA who have major Kidney problems, or are awaiting Kidney transplants...

Chemical "Bodybuilding" ::)


So true.

JasonH

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 04:51:55 AM »
Shaun "Dinosaur" Davis?

Moen

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 05:06:46 AM »
Seems like there are a disproportionate amount of kidney disease sufferers engaged in bodybuilding. Perhaps they couldn't think of a more productive hobby to go with their kidney disease?

oldtimer1

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2012, 05:20:55 AM »
Ray Mentzer had kidney problems too.

Could it be the high blood pressure that goes along with being huge while on the juice? High blood pressure combined with huge blood pressure spikes while straining to complete a lift could lead to damage of kidneys.  Could it be the oil injected into the body with current bodybuilders that eventually gets into the kidneys.  The kidneys are not made to be flooded and clogged with oil.  The small amount of  food oil you eat gets processed.  The crazy amount of oil injected into muscles gets into the blood stream and it has to get removed by your kidneys that are not set up for oil.  

BayGBM

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2012, 06:27:29 AM »
Epic denial  ::)

I'm not even a big "fan" but I can remember:

Tom prince
Flex wheeler
Dong long
Christian lobarede
Luke wood
Marko savolain (?)

And I've been in the boards for about 2 years  :-\


x2.  Mike Morris   :'(

Marlo Stanfield

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2012, 07:26:12 AM »
damn, it is more than i thought, can someone post a list, and if they went back on steroids after a replacement.
DA :D , and yes back on

liberty

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2012, 08:08:56 AM »
If I ever DO need a kidney I want it to come from her  :)
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/25/health/kidney-transplanted-twice/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Jaime

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2012, 11:25:19 AM »
A bunch.

I know a lot of power lifters who have lost a kidney over the years or are on dialysis.

A lot of it has to do with blood pressure, but there are many aspects that can harm your kidneys.


8)


So with all the talk about orals and liver toxicity, how many guys have actually had liver failure?
Trans Milkshake.

hematocritter

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2012, 11:38:54 AM »
I think the liver stress thing is way over rated.
I have abused orals before and liver enzymes weren't even too far out of range to cause a concern.
They trash my lipids though, so I don't use them for that reason.

Anytime I have pushed my liver to the brink, I get plenty of warning signs to back off. I get nausea
before any other symptoms set in, and if i quit any liver toxic habits and begin taking liver supps, it
is relieved in a matter of weeks. I may be genetically blessed with a tough liver though.

I know many that abuse orals and have never had a liver issue.
However, I do know of three guys that had major liver problems from steroid use, so there is some risk.
One had only used orals twice, in a normal cycle with safe dosages.... and he got a hematoma.
Another used 100mg of anadrol daily for almost two years..... he got liver cancer and is fighting it right now.
Another abused orals heavily and got a nasty hematoma that almost killed him.... he is fine now.


The kidney stress thing is way underrated though.... high BP from AAS use and all the solvents and oil from these
UG products stress the kidneys over time.

nicorulez

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2012, 03:07:41 PM »
In your opinion, are the protein requirements of a bodybuilder too excessive for our kidneys to handle over a long period of time?

Secret Stack,

If you look at the literature, and realize that medical literature is kind of archaeic when it comes to health and nutrition. They advocate around 1.2 gm's per kilogram or about half what a typical BB takes in protein wise. I believe Jay was taking in 300-400 grams daily. My feeling is that if you are a serious bodybuilder who is heavily muscled, using androgenics/anabolics/GH etc, it would definitely benefit you to see a physician. A physician has a confidential relationship with you and can't turn you in to the police for steroid use. However, if he is saavy he would get chemistries including liver enzymes and a UA. BP elevations are also very common in bodybuilders. If there is any significant abnormality in the renal function, blood pressure, or urinalysis (proteinuria or spillage of protein), then yes by far the typical bodybuilder diet will cause more damage. However, if the electrolytes, liver enzymes, and urine look good than I doubt it would do much (except for pissing away some expensive protein powder/steak/eggs  ;D. Take care guys.

randy841

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2012, 03:11:48 PM »
The liver is the only organ that can regenerate. Even cut in half - it can recover and do the job just as well. In that regard orals causing damage might be overrated - but not far from the truth, as the liver has better regenerating capabilities. Or one can simply endlessly abuse orals and die of cancer within few years - the stupid degenerative retards do it all the time.  

Once the kidneys are compromised - that's the end pretty much. Kidney problems are most common with competitive BB. Why? What's common among all of them is the use and abuse of diuretics and high protein diets.

Wanna lose 10lb of water - pop pills day and night every hour. Add to that *narcotics, analgesics, stimulants, alcohol, and sedatives. GH15 always points to the narcotics (in addition to diuretics) as the leading cause for primary end point illness in users, and not the AAS per say -- unless genetic predisposition to disease already.

For some hormones are simply a gateway drug. Most users are abusing more than just the AAS.

Does the average gym rat really have any reason to use/abuse diuretics? I certainly don't - nor will i ever.

Am i the biggest, strongest, fastest? No and don't care.

Do i wanna be the biggest, strongest, fastest? Sure, everyone does -- but at what cost.

We all know that at the end of day there is a price to pay for use, and especially for abuse. For the abusers there is no light at the end of the tunnel. The industry stays rather hush hush on health matters, except when it comes to sell a few extra magazines.

nicorulez

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2012, 03:17:00 PM »
I think the liver stress thing is way over rated.
I have abused orals before and liver enzymes weren't even too far out of range to cause a concern.
They trash my lipids though, so I don't use them for that reason.

Anytime I have pushed my liver to the brink, I get plenty of warning signs to back off. I get nausea
before any other symptoms set in, and if i quit any liver toxic habits and begin taking liver supps, it
is relieved in a matter of weeks. I may be genetically blessed with a tough liver though.

I know many that abuse orals and have never had a liver issue.
However, I do know of three guys that had major liver problems from steroid use, so there is some risk.
One had only used orals twice, in a normal cycle with safe dosages.... and he got a hematoma.
Another used 100mg of anadrol daily for almost two years..... he got liver cancer and is fighting it right now.
Another abused orals heavily and got a nasty hematoma that almost killed him.... he is fine now.


The kidney stress thing is way underrated though.... high BP from AAS use and all the solvents and oil from these
UG products stress the kidneys over time.

Realize that anabolics are severely toxic to the liver, especially if you drink heavily. Orals are much worse than injectables as the orals undergo a first pass metabolism and then are eventually broken down by the liver during the second go around. Aromatic steroids are supposedly worse for the liver, but I assume they are all dangerous. I would not go by symptoms to monitor your liver function. The usual first symptom is jaundice or yellowing of the sclera or skin. By that point, you may have caused significant, irreversible damage to your liver. End stage liver disease is death without a transplant. If you are going to juice, get your labs every three months and see a doc to monitor your blood pressure. Also, do not use concommitant NSAIDs like ibuprofren, aleve, etc. Definitely take it easy with the alcohol and if you use illicit drugs, especially intravenously, be prepared for an early funeral.

The thing that disturbs me about the underground bodybuilder culture is that these so called gurus that don't have a high school education are teaching complete bullshit to their pupils. Ignorance and stupidity get you killed. Trust me, no difference between a  world class bodybuilder who abuses steroids, NSAIDs, GH, insulin and my 65 year old obese patient who smokes, drinks heavily, and is non-compliant with their healthcare. Both will be dead sooner than later.

randy841

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Re: how many pros have "fried"/lost their kidneys?
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2012, 03:44:11 PM »
Just a short list taken from an article published in May 2006

BBs who have died prematurely since 1992 [The unknowns have been left out there are many more]
Derrick Whitsett
Don Youngblood
Momo Benaziza
Andreas Munzer
Curtis Leffler
Hans Hopstaken
Sonny Schmidt
Ray Mentzer
Mike Mentzer
Paul Demayo
Momo Benaziza
Fannie Barrios (only female so far)
Eric Otero
Anthony DeAezzo

BBs whose competitive careers were cut short by illness
Dennis Newman
Mike Francois
Don Long
Flex Wheeler (blames hereditary condition like everyone else)
Tom Prince
Mike Matarazzo (says it must have been the 5lb red meat daily  ::))

BBs that have experienced hospital visits with conditions in which their lives were in danger
Mike Matarazzo
Edgar Fletcher
Paul Dillett (twice)
Milos Sarcev
Nasser El Sonbaty
Bob Cicherillo
Mustafa Mohammad (twice)

They all supposedly overdosed on aspirin  ::)