Author Topic: Dangers of Statin Drugs  (Read 5163 times)

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17281
  • Getbig!
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #100 on: April 11, 2024, 04:33:46 AM »
One thing for sure the muscles use glucose  for energy. Try to eliminate carbs in your diet with a low carb eating pattern for four weeks and try to go for five mile run. You will be drained on the first mile.

Wiggs

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40841
  • Child of Y'srael
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #101 on: April 11, 2024, 04:42:18 AM »
One thing for sure the muscles use glucose  for energy. Try to eliminate carbs in your diet with a low carb eating pattern for four weeks and try to go for five mile run. You will be drained on the first mile.

True, that's the primary source of energy but if you're in ketosis you're using the body's fat or food.
7

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19102
  • loco like a fox
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #102 on: April 11, 2024, 04:43:49 AM »
Humans have been eating fruit for thousands of years. For many societies they were the primary food source. You guys need to quit believing these claims of extreme diet plans.

Your statement above didn't help all of those study subjects for whom consuming fruit significantly worsened their fatty liver disease, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.

What extreme diet plan?  The ketogenic diet?  The same diet that for hundreds of years has helped people treat and reverse epilepsy, brain injury, insulin resistance, pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, polycystic ovary syndrome, gastroesophageal reflux disease, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, hypertension, autoimmune disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and more?  That extreme diet plan?

And you are the same guy who said in another thread that eating only Froot Loops 3 times a day can be a healthy diet.  Now, that's what I call extreme, and unhealthy.  What are you, a food industry lobbyist?  Big Pharma?  Both?

ProudVirgin69

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7518
  • hardcore redneck electric champion
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #103 on: April 11, 2024, 04:51:21 AM »
Your statement above didn't help all of those study subjects for whom consuming fruit significantly worsened their fatty liver disease, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.

What extreme diet plan?  The ketogenic diet?  The same diet that for hundreds of years has helped people treat and reverse epilepsy, brain injury, insulin resistance, pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, polycystic ovary syndrome, gastroesophageal reflux disease, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, hypertension, autoimmune disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and more?  That extreme diet plan?

I’m convinced.  if keto helps you with your polycystic ovary syndrome then I’m all for it.

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19102
  • loco like a fox
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #104 on: April 11, 2024, 04:54:33 AM »
I’m convinced.  if keto helps you with your polycystic ovary syndrome then I’m all for it.

If you are a woman who wants to have children and is tired of shaving her facial hair, I get it.  Good luck to you.

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33825
  • “Always do what you are afraid to do.” - Emerson
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #105 on: April 11, 2024, 05:02:08 AM »
One thing for sure the muscles use glucose  for energy. Try to eliminate carbs in your diet with a low carb eating pattern for four weeks and try to go for five mile run. You will be drained on the first mile.

Your body adjusts to eating few carbs after awhile and uses ketones for energy.

I eat hardly any carbs but do what you call "exhausting full body workouts".

I even go for 3 hour bike rides after training and before eating.

How is it possible?

I'm not saying eating zero carbs is optimal if you are an Olympic marathoner, but you are incorrect about a 5 mile run being impossible.

Nomadic American Indians ate basically a meat diet and went on physically demanding hunts for more meat.

Americans eat TOO MANY carbs.  300-400 grams a day is too many.

And most are eaten in highly processed junk foods.

If you stop eating processed foods, sugars, and seed oils you will be better off.

You can still eat some carbs but avoid the above.

Get your carbs from whole foods that do not contain seed oils and sugar.

It will make a huge difference.








ProudVirgin69

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7518
  • hardcore redneck electric champion
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #106 on: April 11, 2024, 05:09:11 AM »
If you are a woman who wants to have children and is tired of shaving her facial hair, I get it.  Good luck to you.

Has it been effective for your PCOS?

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33825
  • “Always do what you are afraid to do.” - Emerson
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #107 on: April 11, 2024, 05:23:40 AM »
Protein powders, including whey powders, cause insulin spikes because they are so finely ground.

This allows them to be converted by the digestive system into glucose rapidly.

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19102
  • loco like a fox
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #108 on: April 11, 2024, 05:50:20 AM »
Which also means that some insulin spikes aren't even necessarily detrimental, even for a Type II diabetic.

Not always, but they can be detrimental.  Many people, not necessarily you, confuse a rapid increase in insulin with a rapid increase in glucose.  They are different.  In the study I linked, Whey protein didn't increase blood glucose.  Why?  Because it increased insulin instead, and insulin kept the blood glucose down.

In some people, when they first start developing insulin resistance, their fasting blood glucose appears normal and they and their doctor will think that everything is just fine.  However, after testing their fasting insulin, it's very high.  Their body is having to release more and more insulin to keep their glucose levels normal.  This is bad.  Most doctors test fasting blood glucose, but they won't test fasting insulin unless you request it, and possibly pay for it out of pocket.

If not treated, this person's glucose levels will eventually go up as well because the high insulin will no longer be able to keep their glucose levels normal.

So insulin and glucose levels are two different things that must be looked at in relation to each other.

Also, increases in insulin from dietary protein are far lower and more stable than they are from dietary carbs:



There are of course many who say you should avoid protein induced spikes too,

And you definitely do if, for example, you are on a ketogenic diet to treat epilepsy.  Eating one too many ounces of protein could trigger a seizure.

and in fact a "true" ketogenic diet is just mostly fat and low carbs.

Where do you get this from?  The ketogenic diet for epilepsy is less than 5% carbs, 80%-90% fat, and the rest is protein.  A ketogenic diet to treat type 2 diabetes is around 70% fat, 25% or more protein, and 5% or less carbs.

A "bodybuilding keto" diet isn't really even ketogenic due to the massive gluconeogenesis from amino acids (aminos turn to glucose) That's why some have been able to eat a zero carb diet AND use insulin at the same time, due to proteins like whey in massive amounts.

What's bodybuilding keto?  A keto diet is one that gets you in a state of at least mild ketosis, at least most of the day.  How much protein one can consume while staying in ketosis differs by individual.

Many people believe that gluconeogenesis uses ONLY amino acids(protein) to create glucose.  This is incorrect.  It uses lactate and glycerol(fat) too.  Ketones are muscle sparing too, as fat adapted muscles use mostly ketones and fat for energy and require less glucose/glycogen, thereby decreasing the need for gluconeogenesis. 

Insulin is a hormone, not a source of energy.  Did you mean to say glucose?

I haven't delved into it that deep but some can have relatively poor insulin sensitivity on a ketogenic diet too. It's not that simple :D

Where did you hear/read this?  That would be true only if those individuals already had poor insulin sensitivity and had just started the keto diet recently.  Study after study have already shown that a well formulated keto diet improves insulin sensitivity.

Genetics are huge wrt insulin sensitivity/resistance. I read that for example a Nordic person may be able to gain 30lbs of pure fat and not go Type II diabetic whereas some indian in south America can gain 2lbs of fat and go diabetic.

This is true, but genetics load the gun and environment/lifestyle pulls the trigger.  You can improve and maintain good insulin sensitivity through lifestyle, no matter your genetics.

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19102
  • loco like a fox
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #109 on: April 11, 2024, 05:53:58 AM »
Has it been effective for your PCOS?

I was born a male, and I identify as male.

You've got a problem with me, ProudVirgin69?  Something I said got your panties in a wad?

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19102
  • loco like a fox
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #110 on: April 11, 2024, 05:58:47 AM »
Your body adjusts to eating few carbs after awhile and uses ketones for energy.

I eat hardly any carbs but do what you call "exhausting full body workouts".

I even go for 3 hour bike rides after training and before eating.

How is it possible?

I'm not saying eating zero carbs is optimal if you are an Olympic marathoner, but you are incorrect about a 5 mile run being impossible.

Nomadic American Indians ate basically a meat diet and went on physically demanding hunts for more meat.

Americans eat TOO MANY carbs.  300-400 grams a day is too many.

And most are eaten in highly processed junk foods.

If you stop eating processed foods, sugars, and seed oils you will be better off.

You can still eat some carbs but avoid the above.

Get your carbs from whole foods that do not contain seed oils and sugar.

It will make a huge difference.

IroNat ain't lying.

kreator

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
  • Getbig!
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #111 on: April 11, 2024, 06:02:00 AM »
One thing for sure the muscles use glucose  for energy. Try to eliminate carbs in your diet with a low carb eating pattern for four weeks and try to go for five mile run. You will be drained on the first mile.

Saw an interview with a fella that ran a marathon on 5 consecutive days while fasting. Cca 212 kilometres all together with no food. Once your body adapts to using fat for energy, it's easy. 

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19102
  • loco like a fox
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #112 on: April 11, 2024, 06:09:47 AM »
Saw an interview with a fella that ran a marathon on 5 consecutive days while fasting. Cca 212 kilometres all together with no food. Once your body adapts to using fat for energy, it's easy.

Good point!  Many people forget that fasting ketosis is the default state all humans go into when not eating anything for a while.  They're not eating any carbs because they are not eating anything at all.  Yet, humans have been able to run, lift, and hunt while in this state for thousands of years.




kreator

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6407
  • Getbig!
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2024, 06:16:47 AM »
Good point!  Many people forget that fasting ketosis is the default state all humans go into when not eating anything for a while.  They're not eating any carbs because they are not eating anything at all.  Yet, humans have been able to run, lift, and hunt while in this state for thousands of years.

Dude also stated that carbing up before such events is not a very smart way since you can only store so much energy in glycogen.  Yet your body has tens of thousands of calories stored in fat cells available at any time. Bart Kay did the interview with the marathoner

Grape Ape

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22358
  • SC è un asino
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #114 on: April 11, 2024, 06:30:34 AM »
Is it possible you are all correct to a degree?

I do believe what iroNat says, that the body has a tremendous ability to adapt.  Loco always brings backup to his statements and makes well thought out arguments.

However, then one reads the book on elite athletic diets and they are not doing low carb, and being very successful.

And the LDL discussion can go on for eternity.

I think overall if people just eliminated the majority of horseshit they eat, kept the carbs in check, we'd all be better off, with the individual tweaking the carb levels to what works for them personally.

Y

oldtimer1

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17281
  • Getbig!
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #115 on: April 11, 2024, 07:17:52 AM »
True, that's the primary source of energy but if you're in ketosis you're using the body's fat or food.

It's a combination of fuel sources for athletics but for lifting or an anaerobic activity it's sugar as in glucose is the main source.

Rambone

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21020
  • “Billy’s taking Art? What the hell for?”
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #116 on: April 11, 2024, 07:29:04 AM »
Is it possible you are all correct to a degree?

I do believe what iroNat says, that the body has a tremendous ability to adapt.  Loco always brings backup to his statements and makes well thought out arguments.

However, then one reads the book on elite athletic diets and they are not doing low carb, and being very successful.

And the LDL discussion can go on for eternity.

I think overall if people just eliminated the majority of horseshit they eat, kept the carbs in check, we'd all be better off, with the individual tweaking the carb levels to what works for them personally.

Your sound logic has no place here! We’ve already made up our minds and have formed dogmatic tribes! On a serious note, I’ll stick to high protein, high fiber, moderate fats and complex carbs depending on goals plus exercise. I think having muscle without a lot of body fat (without using steroids) and good sleep solves a lot of potential problems.

Grape Ape

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22358
  • SC è un asino
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #117 on: April 11, 2024, 08:07:24 AM »
Your sound logic has no place here! We’ve already made up our minds and have formed dogmatic tribes! On a serious note, I’ll stick to high protein, high fiber, moderate fats and complex carbs depending on goals plus exercise. I think having muscle without a lot of body fat (without using steroids) and good sleep solves a lot of potential problems.

Agree.  Especially on the sleep.  Throughout history, the body has been shown the ability to heal itself, given the right conditions.  Sleep is a big factor.
Y

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33825
  • “Always do what you are afraid to do.” - Emerson
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #118 on: April 11, 2024, 09:40:18 AM »

I think overall if people just eliminated the majority of horseshit they eat, kept the carbs in check, we'd all be better off, with the individual tweaking the carb levels to what works for them personally.



No doubt, Grape.

Bhanky could tweak his diet to include Peach Cobbler so his system doesn't shut down.

Van_Bilderass

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 15208
  • "Don't Try"
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #119 on: April 11, 2024, 11:07:47 AM »



Where do you get this from?  The ketogenic diet for epilepsy is less than 5% carbs, 80%-90% fat, and the rest is protein.  A ketogenic diet to treat type 2 diabetes is around 70% fat, 25% or more protein, and 5% or less carbs.

What's bodybuilding keto?  A keto diet is one that gets you in a state of at least mild ketosis,

I phrased that wrong, I meant mostly fat, close to zero carbs.

"Bodybuilding keto" is where you may eat 200-300 grams of protein, a good amount of fat and close to zero carbs. Obviously that isn't keto at all but many do call it that when they cut the carbs completely. No bodybuilder eats 80% fat, everyone does "high" protein but there is still talk of it being "keto." :D Dave Palumbo's diets some call "ketogenic."

Quote
"The Dave Palumbo Diet requires six meals each day. A sample meal plan would start with five whole eggs for the first meal followed by a whey protein shake and 1.5 tbsp of natural peanut butter for the second meal. The third meal could consist of an 8-oz. serving of chicken with 1/2 cup of walnuts or almonds. Meal four would be another whey protein shake and 1.5 tbsp of peanut butter. Dinner, or meal five, would feature a fatty protein like salmon, swordfish or red meat paired with a green salad. The day ends with a sixth meal of a whey protein shake and peanut butter." 

Lyle McDonald, who is the OG in the so-called research based community, and who I really like, thinks all the advantages of keto are actually realised even if you don't start producing a lot of ketones. His full explanation is a lot more involved than that of course.

The CKD type diets looked elegant on paper and I think they "work" for bodybuilders, sometimes gaining a little muscle while losing a lot of fat.

Wiggs

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40841
  • Child of Y'srael
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #120 on: April 11, 2024, 11:44:27 AM »
It's a combination of fuel sources for athletics but for lifting or an anaerobic activity it's sugar as in glucose is the main source.

Sounds like a great opportunity for a carb pre work out meal, (timed appropriately) so your body can use it for training.
7

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33825
  • “Always do what you are afraid to do.” - Emerson
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #121 on: April 11, 2024, 02:44:07 PM »

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33825
  • “Always do what you are afraid to do.” - Emerson
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #122 on: April 11, 2024, 03:00:41 PM »
Carbs

Humble Narcissist

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28128
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #123 on: April 12, 2024, 12:51:16 AM »
Your statement above didn't help all of those study subjects for whom consuming fruit significantly worsened their fatty liver disease, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.

What extreme diet plan?  The ketogenic diet?  The same diet that for hundreds of years has helped people treat and reverse epilepsy, brain injury, insulin resistance, pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, polycystic ovary syndrome, gastroesophageal reflux disease, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, hypertension, autoimmune disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and more?  That extreme diet plan?

And you are the same guy who said in another thread that eating only Froot Loops 3 times a day can be a healthy diet.  Now, that's what I call extreme, and unhealthy.  What are you, a food industry lobbyist?  Big Pharma?  Both?
Yes, keto is an extreme diet just like veganism, Atkins, frutarian, raw food and any other diet that has a person cutting out huge food groups from their diet. You are not living to 100 because of any of these diets.

joswift

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 25908
Re: Dangers of Statin Drugs
« Reply #124 on: April 12, 2024, 01:26:15 AM »
One thing for sure the muscles use glucose  for energy. Try to eliminate carbs in your diet with a low carb eating pattern for four weeks and try to go for five mile run. You will be drained on the first mile.
I knew a marathon runner who ran two marathons, one carb loaded and one on a keto diet

His times were around the same...