Law Enforcement Appreciation

[Agnostic007]

No one disputes the individual acts of heroism and good deeds individuals make.  that's not the issue IMHO, its the overall militarization and tactics and stanc the police departments as a whole take in this country. 

But it's not "as a whole". Police departments are jurisdictional. And how do you mean militarization exactly? That's a pretty general term. That the military and police use guns, wear uniforms? As far as tactics, police generally have developed tactics from trial and error over 100 yrs. As bad guys aresenals and tactics change, the police adapt.

[tu_holmes]

No one disputes the individual acts of heroism and good deeds individuals make.  that's not the issue IMHO, its the overall militarization and tactics and stanc the police departments as a whole take in this country.  

Exactly... I'm not saying that Agnostic isn't doing his job well, or that certain other people aren't doing their job well, but yet, I'm some evil person to them because there are many people in their line of work who don't.

Don't we generally agree that government fucks up? Aren't those people just human as well? Aren't police offers government employees? Doesn't that mean that they will fuck up? (Not all, but quite a few)

Also, why is it so bad to say that cops are fucking up? If I work for a videogame company and a team I work with puts out a bad product, I easily admit it is bad and that it should have been done better. I'm not an asshole for that, but I'm an asshole for saying that cop or group of cops is fucking up?

Why is it that saying something bad about a cop is considered so horrible, even when it's true?

[Soul Crusher]

But it's not "as a whole". Police departments are jurisdictional. And how do you mean militarization exactly? That's a pretty general term. That the military and police use guns, wear uniforms? As far as tactics, police generally have developed tactics from trial and error over 100 yrs. As bad guys aresenals and tactics change, the police adapt.

Officers went from formal uniforms to BDU's and soldier like apparel.   Squad cars now where I am resemble battle tanks.  Cops refer to people as "civilians", and on and on and on.  

"Bad Guys" weapons?   GMAFB.    Those instances where cops are in street battles requiring M4's, Armoured Personell carriers, etc are so rare its ridiculous.  Yet - every outfit near me is getting all geared up, etc.    

Where I live the cops now have these  "ESU" vehicles that resemble battering rams ad look like they areabout to go to the front lines of major combat.

    

  

  

[Agnostic007]

Bullshit... I'm not making anything up.

I have a former State Police officer (who was a real friend) who was killed in the line of duty because THEY pulled someone over and then stepped out of their car into oncoming traffic.

So tell me I'm lying again?

This is the problem right here... As a cop, you are instantly saying that everyone is lying but you... My word is JUST as valid as yours even though I don't carry a badge, and it's probably MORE valid than 1/2 of your co-workers.

I operate as most humans do or should, on the concept of "whats more likely?"

I've been in Law Enforcement since 1982. While I've had some co-workers or people I knew killed in the line of duty, I've been fortunate enough not to lose any friends. Now for you to say you lost A friend, who was a cop, who was killed in the line of duty, well I could buy that. Even though you apparently dislike cops with a passion bordering on irrational, you just MIGHT have had a friend who was a cop, who was killed in the line of duty.

But when you say you have friends who were cops and all were killed in the line of duty, and all because of their own fault well that just defies the odds. And since I don't know you all that well, but have clearly seen your hatred of cops and authority, I simply ask what is more likely, that you had cops that were friends of yours, who were killed in the line of duty because of their own fault, or are you embellishing the facts to bolster your position? Basing it on that, I can safely conclude you are embellishing. I base it on the probabililty... which is highly unlikely

No offense

  

[Agnostic007]

Sorry, my response was mixed up with your qoute.. I seperated them here......



I operate as most humans do or should, on the concept of "whats more likely?"

I've been in Law Enforcement since 1982. While I've had some co-workers or people I knew killed in the line of duty, I've been fortunate enough not to lose any friends. Now for you to say you lost A friend, who was a cop, who was killed in the line of duty, well I could buy that. Even though you apparently dislike cops with a passion bordering on irrational, you just MIGHT have had a friend who was a cop, who was killed in the line of duty.

But when you say you have friends who were cops and all were killed in the line of duty, and all because of their own fault well that just defies the odds. And since I don't know you all that well, but have clearly seen your hatred of cops and authority, I simply ask what is more likely, that you had cops that were friends of yours, who were killed in the line of duty because of their own fault, or are you embellishing the facts to bolster your position? Basing it on that, I can safely conclude you are embellishing. I base it on the probabililty... which is highly unlikely

No offense

[Agnostic007]

Exactly... I'm not saying that Agnostic isn't doing his job well, or that certain other people aren't doing their job well, but yet, I'm some evil person to them because there are many people in their line of work who don't.

Don't we generally agree that government fucks up? Aren't those people just human as well? Aren't police offers government employees? Doesn't that mean that they will fuck up? (Not all, but quite a few)

Also, why is it so bad to say that cops are fucking up? If I work for a videogame company and a team I work with puts out a bad product, I easily admit it is bad and that it should have been done better. I'm not an asshole for that, but I'm an asshole for saying that cop or group of cops is fucking up?

Why is it that saying something bad about a cop is considered so horrible, even when it's true?

Cops fuck up. While you aren't saying all cops are fuck ups, I'm not saying all cops are not fuck ups. I think we disagree on the level of fuck up going on...

[tu_holmes]

That's not what I said... I did not say that I had friends and they were all killed and it was always their fault. Who the fuck would say that all of their friends are fuckups?

To be specific... I have known only 1 cop friend who was killed in the line of duty and it was in fact, their own fault.

I will even apologize for using the "plural" in that instance as it does confuse the point I was making.

[tu_holmes]

Of course she chose that job.  But changing fucking flat tires is not in her job description.  Her job description is to serve and protect the public through the enforcement of laws.  That is what she gets paid to do.  Since when is having a flat tire breaking a law?  If that is in her job duties then why stop there?  Let's call the police every time we need a movie taken back to Blockbuster before we get hit with a late fee.  What about that?

People that fucking cry and whine about the cops are going to do so regardless.  You are making a big deal about changing a flat tire, but I gurantee you that if you started seeing cops out on the road changing tires you would just start crying about them doing that and not out stopping crime somewhere.

They don't stop crime now... There are areas in the city I'm currently in where if a shooting call comes in about the area, they simply do not go. They are either:

1. Lazy
2. Scared
3. Uncaring

Take your pick.

[Soul Crusher]

Focus is increasingly on generating revenue via tickets, infractions, etc.  Serves a 2 fer.

1.  Get the locality more revenue 

2.  Generate OT   

[Agnostic007]

That's not what I said... I did not say that I had friends and they were all killed and it was always their fault. Who the fuck would say that all of their friends are fuckups?

To be specific... I have known only 1 cop friend who was killed in the line of duty and it was in fact, their own fault.

I will even apologize for using the "plural" in that instance as it does confuse the point I was making.

"Sorry dude... but I've had friends who are cops who were killed in the line of duty by their own damn fault. "

Fair enough, your original statement stated you had more than one. If that isn't the case then I retract my statement that it isn't true.

[Dos Equis]

No one disputes the individual acts of heroism and good deeds individuals make. 

tu holmes does. 

[Dos Equis]

Officers went from formal uniforms to BDU's and soldier like apparel.   Squad cars now where I am resemble battle tanks.  Cops refer to people as "civilians", and on and on and on.  

"Bad Guys" weapons?   GMAFB.    Those instances where cops are in street battles requiring M4's, Armoured Personell carriers, etc are so rare its ridiculous.  Yet - every outfit near me is getting all geared up, etc.    

Where I live the cops now have these  "ESU" vehicles that resemble battering rams ad look like they areabout to go to the front lines of major combat.
  

The only place where you see "militarized" cops are in high crime neighborhoods.  I don't have a problem with cops doing whatever than can to protect themselves, while they risk their lives to protect the public.

[Soul Crusher]

Problem is that its creating and inflaming the "us vs them" attitude to where regular people no longer care, trust, or give a damn bout the cops. 

We have no foot patrols whatsoever, but guess what?  We have cops hiding in corners at 8:30 am pulling over people on their way to work for bullshit. 

This is all creating an environment to where even law abiding citizens hate the police, myself included.  I really dont give a damn any more as I see the cops' priorities focused on revenue generation more than actually policing.

It took me a long time to come to this, but  when I see the average cop near me - all I see ia greedy govt employee whose sole purpose is to harass, enrich himsel with pension enhancements and OT, and protect the nanny state and insane level of taxation required to keep funding them. 

I'm not kidding, where I live, if we had no cops at all, no one would probably notice one bit.         

[Dos Equis]

Problem is that its creating and inflaming the "us vs them" attitude to where regular people no longer care, trust, or give a damn bout the cops. 

We have no foot patrols whatsoever, but guess what?  We have cops hiding in corners at 8:30 am pulling over people on their way to work for bullshit. 

This is all creating an environment to where even law abiding citizens hate the police, myself included.  I really dont give a damn any more as I see the cops' priorities focused on revenue generation more than actually policing.

It took me a long time to come to this, but  when I see the average cop near me - all I see ia greedy govt employee whose sole purpose is to harass, enrich himsel with pension enhancements and OT, and protect the nanny state and insane level of taxation required to keep funding them. 

I'm not kidding, where I live, if we had no cops at all, no one would probably notice one bit.         

I'm not fond of cops who set speed traps for the purposes of meeting quotas, but other than that I like their presence.  I don't see them as the enemy.  I know enough cops to know they really are committed to serving the public, and are willing to put their life on the line to do so. 

If we had no cops at all we would be post Katrina New Orleans.   

[Soul Crusher]

I'm not fond of cops who set speed traps for the purposes of meeting quotas, but other than that I like their presence.  I don't see them as the enemy.  I know enough cops to know they really are committed to serving the public, and are willing to put their life on the line to do so. 

If we had no cops at all we would be post Katrina New Orleans.   

Problem with Katrina were the vermin and animals inhabiting the joint. 

[LurkerNoMore]

"Sorry dude... but I've had friends who are cops who were killed in the line of duty by their own damn fault. "

Fair enough, your original statement stated you had more than one. If that isn't the case then I retract my statement that it isn't true.

Not to mention his own back pedaling from several friends - as he used the plural form - to now just a single person.

 

[LurkerNoMore]

I'm not fond of cops who set speed traps for the purposes of meeting quotas,

Actually the thing about having quotas is a myth.  There is no limit or minimum to the number of tickets or citations they have to give. 

[tu_holmes]

Actually the thing about having quotas is a myth.  There is no limit or minimum to the number of tickets or citations they have to give. 

There is no "official" policy... but there is an "understood" amount of tickets that you should write in most jurisdictions.

Do not kid yourself... I have it from the horse's mouth on this.

[Dos Equis]

Problem with Katrina were the vermin and animals inhabiting the joint. 

Not really.  I think we would see the same scenario in any major city.  

[Dos Equis]

Actually the thing about having quotas is a myth.  There is no limit or minimum to the number of tickets or citations they have to give. 

That's partly true.  There is no specific number.  But a highway patrol officer's productivity is measured in part by how many tickets he or she writes.

[tu_holmes]

Not to mention his own back pedaling from several friends - as he used the plural form - to now just a single person.

 

I didn't back pedal... I said I've had friends... I don't know what planet you live on... As I said... I misused the plural and was being general... I specified my point, so just deal with the fact that I am not making shit up and know what I'm talking about.

Your sister has been hurt a lot in the line of duty you said? Maybe she should find a new line of work... something she might be good at?

[tu_holmes]

tu holmes does. 

Keep my name out of your mouth you fucktard.

I spoke my own words and agreed with 333s statement... so go fuck yourself.

[Skip8282]

That's partly true.  There is no specific number.  But a highway patrol officer's productivity is measured in part by how many tickets he or she writes.

I don't know about highway patrol, but my brother also told me it's a bunch of bunk.  They could care less how many citations he writes. 

He also noted that if there ever were such a policy, it could be used to cast reasonable doubt, so they don't even bother with it.

[Dos Equis]

Keep my name out of your mouth you fucktard.

I spoke my own words and agreed with 333s statement... so go fuck yourself.

LOL!  You are trying too hard.   

[Dos Equis]

I don't know about highway patrol, but my brother also told me it's a bunch of bunk.  They could care less how many citations he writes. 

He also noted that if there ever were such a policy, it could be used to cast reasonable doubt, so they don't even bother with it.

I've talked to at least a couple officers who told me they do get evaluated based on volume.  If you look at where some of the speed traps are set, it's so obvious that they are designed to generate tickets.