| Andreas Munzer | 30 |
| BJ Johns | 34 |
| Charles Durr | 45 |
| Curtis Leffler | 36 |
| Derrick Whitsett | 37 |
| Don Ross | 55 |
| Don Youngblood | 50 |
| Fannie Barrios | 39 |
| Mike Mentzer | 49 |
| Mohammad Benaziza | 28 ...20 fricken 8!! |
| Paul DeMayo | 37 |
| Ray Mentzer | 47 |
| Sonny Schmidt | 46 |
I think it's only going to get worse in the next 10 years.
Whatever
People die in every sport...
but the funny thing is, people are so concerned about bodybuilders dying and "how crazy the sport is getting" but they support soldiers being sent off to war for no reason and getting killed!
Lets make a list of how many soldiers have died under the age of 25, its going to be way longer than any list from bodybuilding related deaths.
I think it's only going to get worse in the next 10 years.
Its a comparison to show how insignificant "bodybuilding deaths" are related to other things that are a part of each and everyones life.
The point is, its not that big of an issue.
Hi Glen. Glad to see another person from Auckland posting on Getbig :) You are up early, especially to be posting on Getbig
Even if you are to strictly focusing on bodybuilding, thats not a big number of deaths compared to how many bodybuilders there are. ITS NOT AN ISSUE IN BODYBUILDING OR OTHERWISE.
Monday morning gotta clear my emails! I own a site called "ScienTOMogy (http://www.scienTOMogy.info)" as a hobby (well it recently had 14 million hits in ten days so it's almost a job!) - it's purpose is to point out what a deranged nutcase Crusie is so no one listens to his psychotic rants, and i get a lot of mail from there (fan and HATE mail!).
I've lurked here for ages but much more so since Titus went off the rails...
And your excuse?! :)
I think it's only going to get worse in the next 10 years.
I beg to differ. What other sport has it's professional athletes barely make 50... if they're lucky!
Can anyone draft up a list on how eeach of the guys mentioned above passed away?
Or simply comment if the cause of death was drug related or not.
I doubt that any bodybuilder has passed away under a heavy bench press, but that could be a possibility. Anyone know?
Men are hardly breaking 65.
Off the top of my head I can think of the following pros/top amateurs that have died well before their number should have been up... it's beyond a joke (and this is from memory - I've no doubt missed a bunch)
Andreas Munzer 30 BJ Johns 34 Charles Durr 45 Curtis Leffler 36 Derrick Whitsett 37 Don Ross 55 Don Youngblood 50 Fannie Barrios 39 Mike Mentzer 49 Mohammad Benaziza 28 ...20 fricken 8!! Paul DeMayo 37 Ray Mentzer 47 Sonny Schmidt 46
Momo and DeMayo broke my heart, I remember being stunned for days after reading of Paul's unfittingly pathetic death (and I mean that resectfully - he deserved to be known as Quadzilla not that bodybuilder that OD'ed...). Munzer, well, we could have seen that coming maybe, the guy was a freak - who needs anatomy charts he had no skin! Being from NZ BJ's death rocked me as well.
What do you think? Is it out of control or do we, as the bbing community just get thrown into the spotlight due to the 'steriod' stereotype?
It's a shame anyway, there's some legends on that list for sure.
Glen Stollery
Auckland, NZ
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=20557 (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=20557)
Life Expectancy in USA Increases to 77.6 Years; Deaths from Heart Disease, Cancer Decline, Report FindsArticle Date: 03 Mar 2005 - 20:00pm (UK)Life expectancy for U.S. residents increased to a record 77.6 years and mortality rates for most leading causes of death declined in 2003, according to the preliminary annual mortality report released Monday by... CDC's National Center for Health Statistics, the AP/Las Vegas Sun reports (Schmid, AP/Las Vegas Sun, 2/28)....
http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/2003/000014.html (http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/2003/000014.html)
Life Expectancy in United States Hits New HighFriday, March 28, 2003The Centers for Disease Control reported this month that life expectancy in the United States reached a new high of 77.2 years.
For men, average life expectance is now at 74.4 years, and for women at 79.8 years. Broken down by race, the average life expectancy for whites is 77.7 years and for blacks 72.2 years.
Jack Delinger - 66
George Eiferman - 77
Roland Essmaker - 86
John Farbotnik - 73
Vince Girona - 80
Joe Gold - 82
Bert Goodrich - 85
John Grimek - 88
George Hackenschmidt - 90
Oscar Heidenstam - 80
Gene Jantzen - 91
Siegmund Klein - 85
Ron Lacy - 75
Frank Leight - 78
Sam Loprinzi - 83
Bob McCune - 82
Eric Pedersen - 62
Don Peters - 70
Steve Reeves - 74
Eddie Silvestre - 70
Chuck Sipes - 61
Steve Stanko - 61
Ed Theriault - 73
Harold Zinkin - 82
Interesting how old the guys from the earlier days live till and how young the guys of today live till.
Can I take you up on that offer Tim? I'm curious to see how the two lists compare.
Whatever
People die in every sport...
but the funny thing is, people are so concerned about bodybuilders dying and "how crazy the sport is getting" but they support soldiers being sent off to war for no reason and getting killed!
Lets make a list of how many soldiers have died under the age of 25, its going to be way longer than any list from bodybuilding related deaths.
Jack Delinger - 66
George Eiferman - 77
Roland Essmaker - 86
John Farbotnik - 73
Vince Girona - 80
Joe Gold - 82
Bert Goodrich - 85
John Grimek - 88
George Hackenschmidt - 90
Oscar Heidenstam - 80
Gene Jantzen - 91
Siegmund Klein - 85
Ron Lacy - 75
Frank Leight - 78
Sam Loprinzi - 83
Bob McCune - 82
Eric Pedersen - 62
Don Peters - 70
Steve Reeves - 74
Eddie Silvestre - 70
Chuck Sipes - 61
Steve Stanko - 61
Ed Theriault - 73
Harold Zinkin - 82
Still going strong:
Jules Bacon - 89
Dan Lurie - 83
Clarence Ross - 83
Jim Park - 79
Bill Pearl - 76
Dick DuBois - 73
Jim Morris - 71
Larry Scott - 68
There should also be a list of bodybuilders who had kidney problems which seem to be another problem in the sport.
here are a few
Juan Ferrero - 40
Caesar Juliani - 22 - gun shot
Gene Massey - 26 - plane crash
Ray McNeil - 30
Victor Nicoletti - 50
Floyd Page - 38
Carlos Rodriguez - 48
Tom Sansone - 38 - cancer
Rock Stonewall - 54
Tony Terlazzo - 56
Ron Teufel - 45 - HIV
Exactly. Kidney, liver, heart, blood pressure, etc.
hmmm i see a pattern emerging......do u think they cud have been using "special supplements"?
hmmm i see a pattern emerging......do u think they cud have been using "special supplements"?
They wanted the 5-10% advantage that steroids offer.
Off the top of my head I can think of the following pros/top amateurs that have died well before their number should have been up... it's beyond a joke (and this is from memory - I've no doubt missed a bunch)
Andreas Munzer 30 BJ Johns 34 Charles Durr 45 Curtis Leffler 36 Derrick Whitsett 37 Don Ross 55 Don Youngblood 50 Fannie Barrios 39 Mike Mentzer 49 Mohammad Benaziza 28 ...20 fricken 8!! Paul DeMayo 37 Ray Mentzer 47 Sonny Schmidt 46
M
That list isn't shit compared to a similar list you could draw up of dead pro wrestlers.
Geez, I didnt know teufel died. :'( Thanks for keeping track of this stuff ,Tim. You have a website dont you?? What is it?
http://musclememory.com (http://musclememory.com)
Yeah thats it juiced to the gills ::)
I dont even have the cash to be juiced to the gills buddy im 21 years old this month and have tons of shit to pay for and im no dealer
Tim
ray mcneil died of natural causes; and by natural I mean murdered by shot gun by Sally.
Deservedly so.
Deservedly so.
Deservedly so.
I think that she is coming up for parole soon. She went in in 96 ? and was to serve 7 or 8 years before parole- of her 18 year sentence. Was it 18? or 19? so it's been a while.
Didn't she appear contrite enough before the panel?
He beat her up a lot, but a woman was strangled less than a year before the incident, she died, very similar to what Sally was going through...Sally feared for her life. She even mentioned to me about the Titus case, see what happens when professional male bodybuilders strangle women, they die!
She received a 19 to life sentence. She has not appeared for parole. She has had several reasons to appeal the sentence, the last appeal made it before the US supreme court, but didn't win her her freedom
It must drive her nuts to think about the fact that had she taken the lesser charge, she'd be out by now.
???
She wasn't offered a lesser charge.
I remember that sad lives,sad ending :-\
I could just as easily come up with a list of bodybuilders who died young in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s.
Tim: I'm curious if you're suggesting that people simply die and that the current chemical warfare doesn't accelerate that?
It is pretty hard to study something like steroid abuse scientifically because I doubt a study like that would be put into practice.
I hope hes not saying that. Common sense tells you when you stick hormones in your body for years on end, it cant be good. Pathetic really, and all for a metal statue, that youll pawn when your other drug addictions kick in.
people need to get out of violent relationships. Sally was a fucking fool for sticking around with Ray beating her ass...but she chose to stay cause she was a sick individual.
A normal individual would have left. I don't really think Sally falls under the typical battered woman syndrome. She could physically take care of herself and she didn't have any problems being violent with Ray on different occasions.
The normal battered woman is so afraid for her life every waking day she wouldn't say boo to the guy.
The details in this case are disgusting especially for the McNeill kids
Tim: I'm curious if you're suggesting that people simply die and that the current chemical warfare doesn't accelerate that?
It is pretty hard to study something like steroid abuse scientifically because I doubt a study like that would be put into practice.
people need to get out of violent relationships. Sally was a fucking fool for sticking around with Ray beating her ass...but she chose to stay cause she was a sick individual.
A normal individual would have left. I don't really think Sally falls under the typical battered woman syndrome. She could physically take care of herself and she didn't have any problems being violent with Ray on different occasions.
The normal battered woman is so afraid for her life every waking day she wouldn't say boo to the guy.
The details in this case are disgusting especially for the McNeill kids
I know Tim is pretty pro-steroid when it comes to analyzing the science of the matter and not anecdotal evidence. But he did once say that bodybuilding stopped becoming about health and fitness around the 1950s or sixties just before the area where chemicals became more in the picture.
http://www.musclememory.com/showArticle.php?md120124
I'm glad that Tim corrected the bullshit in that article. I would expect more from MD but I suppose that is a very old issue.
steroids dont kill people
no, just that anecdotal information is meaningless. any drug can be abused, and many people do abuse performance enhancing drugs. but it's pretty hard to say that steroids caused a specific person's death.
some young people die of cancer. some young people who take AS die of cancer.
no, in fact it's quite easy to do. compare rates of diseases in different populations. figure out how often young athletes get a disease, compare that to how often it occurs in young athletes who take AS. so far, no study has shown an increase in any disease in those who use AS.
You have a great site Tim! thanks.
It should be stated that there appears to be an increase in the incidence of certain diseases /ailments in the current rash of bodybuilders, say within the last 15 years or so. The earlier guys from the 30' 40's and 50's generally did live to a ripe old age. I doubt that anyone has done any studies to show this.
The average age of first heart attack for the general public is often quoted as being somewhere in the 60's. A few current bodybuilders have had heart attacks. If a person were so inclined, they could go thru the list of all the past competitors and see when, if ever they experienced whatever ailment. And then compare it to the national average. If it is substantially different, by means of Statistical analsysis, then you could say that there is a pattern.
It would cost some money to do this; It also isn't necessary. The length and dosage of drugs needed to play this game at the top level are certainly affecting these people's health. Usually it's kidney or liver damage.
it appears to me that there is a pattern coming out that has the newer younger guys experiencing ailments earlier than you would otherwise expect.
sally should rot in prison for her entire term. one gunshot would have been enough to stop him. a second just shows her desire to actually kill someone when she got mad enough. for her to claim to be scared is insane. that woman used to beat up women who talked to Ray. and he would get attacked by her often enough as well. not saying what he did was ok. but there are so many other things someone can do to get ot of or change an abusive relationship. for anyone to even give this beast an ounce of mercy just shows how insane some people can when it comes to defending juiceheads.
I will get more into this later but to be completely fair Mike had claimed to have a diet very high in dairy - tons of red meat and I recall either a dozen or two dozen eggs a day. He also claimed that he would eat (and I'm "not shitting you" as he put it) up to 25 chicken breasts in a day and that if he didn't he could see himself fade over the course of a day. He was amazed that Paul Dillett could slack off on his diet and not fade throughout the course of a day.
I would say diet affected Mike's condition moreso than steroids, but certainly neither was conducive to heart health.
Does anyone know the story of when Ray Mentzer was seeing Rachel McClish, about when he held her up over his head and was going to throw her out the 6th story window or balcony. And was it Ray and Mike or someone who wrote on the back of a check they were cashing at the bank "This is a hold-up" and the alarm was pressed and the cops came.
agreed.
although Mike matarazzo almost proved everyone completely wrong. The alterations in his lipid profile undoubtedly were caused, in part or in whole, by his imprudent choice/timing of AAS. Having at 38 years old what normally happens to people in their 60's is not a positive sign. It being so far away from the norm that it almost precludes it from being due strictly to chance. Something he did caused this to happen to him. And the fact that he wasn't getting scheduled routine blood work done seems almost scary if not completely stupid.
It is the lifestyle that goes along with it.
Mike states 100% that his drug usage precluded his health problems.
how did his drug usage prevent his health problems from happening?
Keith, what were Mike and Ray like as people? Good guys?
How tall was Ray?
WhateverGREAT POINT!! The death toll is still mounting in a war that we were lied to about
People die in every sport...
but the funny thing is, people are so concerned about bodybuilders dying and "how crazy the sport is getting" but they support soldiers being sent off to war for no reason and getting killed!
Lets make a list of how many soldiers have died under the age of 25, its going to be way longer than any list from bodybuilding related deaths.
No one seems to consider the ticking time bomb of widespread prostate cancer among bodybuilders taking huge quantities of anabolic ANDROGENIC steroids, stacked with excessive (supraphysiological) doses of testosterone. All those androgens greatly elevate DHT production, and few (if any) pros use finasteride (proscar/propecia) as it significantly cuts into the effectiveness of their stacks.
I'm not talking about BPH (benign prostate hyperplasia), but full scale metastisising prostate cancer. If we all lived to 250 years old our (by then melon-sized benign) prostates would mature into full scale cancer. The huge doses of androgenics pros (and wannabe pros) take surely shortens that timescale down to within a regular life expectancy (even a pros life expectancy).
The Luke
Seems he had a fondness for orals.
I could just as easily come up with a list of bodybuilders who died young in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s.
People who try to act like gear at the level the pros use it does not strongly contribute to the health problems some are experiencing are very naive or in denial
I think most of us have a fondness for oral.
The amounts the pros use are very much exaggerated. In the event that they are busted, they say that they use large amounts so they can claim personal use. Most pros take 200-400 mg a week. When you have genetics like theirs, there is little reason to use more.
This actually started making the rounds after Andreas Munzer's death. The "list" of drugs found in his desk or somewhere was a vertible pharmacy. Then a few people started quoting that this " list" was just a scam for the very reason that you are giving. It was a form of plausible deniability.
It isn't true as no lawyer or prosecutor takes notes/lists such as this as being honest or truthful on the face of it.
Just like parts of the movie of the Bruce Lee story- this story of " the list of drugs is simply my shopping list for my personal use " is completely bogus and completely fabricated.
Lucious, you seem to be fairly smart but I believe that your eagerness to believe in these bodybuilder heroes of yours will lead you to wrong conclusions.
and the board's overall penchant for irony is just an attempt to say afterwards that " hey , I was just joking, ONly an idiot would have taken me serious!"
so there is nothing more anyone can say. On some things, I believe that you don't have a clue about the subject at hand whereas on other topics you seem well informed... So you are just like the rest of us.
I still think you are a teddy bear though..:D - in a good way.
Please remember to post " meltdown" sometime soon.... i miss that.
The amounts the pros use are very much exaggerated. In the event that they are busted, they say that they use large amounts so they can claim personal use. Most pros take 200-400 mg a week. When you have genetics like theirs, there is little reason to use more.
Personal use definition is defined by law - not by what somebody posts on the internet or says otherwise. Actually, it would be more wise for pros to say they hardly use anything - the last thing they need is to look like the have a phamacy in their houses or lots of dealer connections.
If they say they use nothing, and they are found with a whole bunch... ::)
I know what you are saying... I just (personally) think that they should play more of the middle ground - denying it or saying they use tons seem to be bigger red flags.
I think most of us have a fondness for oral.
Shortfat, I don't have the specifics on how Dave Johns passed away but I do recall a statement about "Legionaire's Disease" which I never took the opportunity to clarify.
I knew Dave for a short period during his young life and have to admit that he was one of the best guys I've ever met in this crazy sport.
John's best friend was another great person (powerlifter, I believe) who worked for the LAPD helping kids in some official capacity. He is/was another great person.
Sorry for not being specific, but a lot of time has passed since Dave passed away I've lost touch with his friends a long while back.
Any details would be appreciated.
I know I do. :D
This " I have a list of my personal use" is a dangerous game to play. It won't work ; For a number of reasons. And it may be held against you as it shows that some foresight went into planning your defense.
The medical use of sustanon 250 is one shot every 2 weeks : to change a female into a male.
Testosterone enanthate 200 or 250 is sometimes used every 10 days : for TRT or again to change a female to a male.
So for a margin of error, you could extend this to 4 shots of 250 per month. or a maximum of 250 mg per week.
the orals --would similarly be figured out by their dosage.
Some of it is common sense as 10 bottles of E doesn't immediately constitute dealer status although DA's have been known to make attempts when lesser amounts have been found.
THe definition of "personal use " or " trafficker/dealer" is NOT set out by the accused/perpetrator but rather by a medical and legal definition.
The laws are getting so that it is almost incumbent on the person charged to prove that he is NOT A DEALER as opposed to having the prosecutors prove that he is.- an exaggeration to be sure yet that road is being paved as we speak- or type this.
Anyone who flashes around a sheet of paper listing their personal use details is only flashing a red light to the authorities that he or she is possibly a steroid dealer who came up with a ruse to get out of that designation.
What is interesting for those who follow female bodybuilding & drug cycles within that category- is just how little AAS is actually needed to alter one's sexual chemistry from female to male. Sustanon 250 or Test enanthate every 10 days seems quite small in amount when compared to what some of the girls use. ( 1 ml of either). It won't turn you into an ubermensch or anything but you'll be male nonetheless.
Most judges are as ignorant as can be as far as anabolic steroids go. I remember someone who was charged once mentioned the judge said STEROIDS ARE WOSE THAN CRACK!!!
With blatantly false bullshit it's no wonder anabolic steroids are regarded the way they are by society.
Howdy SM,
Dave Johns passed away from "Valley Fever", which I think is a fungal infection of the lungs.
Off the top of my head I can think of the following pros/top amateurs that have died well before their number should have been up... it's beyond a joke (and this is from memory - I've no doubt missed a bunch)
Andreas Munzer 30 BJ Johns 34 Charles Durr 45 Curtis Leffler 36 Derrick Whitsett 37 Don Ross 55 Don Youngblood 50 Fannie Barrios 39 Mike Mentzer 49 Mohammad Benaziza 28 ...20 fricken 8!! Paul DeMayo 37 Ray Mentzer 47 Sonny Schmidt 46
Momo and DeMayo broke my heart, I remember being stunned for days after reading of Paul's unfittingly pathetic death (and I mean that resectfully - he deserved to be known as Quadzilla not that bodybuilder that OD'ed...). Munzer, well, we could have seen that coming maybe, the guy was a freak - who needs anatomy charts he had no skin! Being from NZ BJ's death rocked me as well.
What do you think? Is it out of control or do we, as the bbing community just get thrown into the spotlight due to the 'steriod' stereotype?
It's a shame anyway, there's some legends on that list for sure.
Glen Stollery
Auckland, NZ
I'm not saying they'd carry the list themselves or have it prewritten. I'm saying the fact that such lists are spoken about on the internet may back up there case. I agree that the accused cannot set personal use standards, but the judge has some discretion as to the sentence.
DAve JOhns died of liver cancer and complications from that. Seems he had a fondness for orals.
He died of a viral infection.
Even Lyle Alzado's doctors said the brain cancer wasn't caused by steroids. But why would the general public or media concern themselves with medical evidence? That would require brain power to process the info. ::)
John Romano and I see eye-to-eye about everything when it comes to roids and media bullshit.
Don't you think we shouldn't include early deaths from murder, suicide, and cancer? I think the point of this thread was early death from the bodybuilding life style. That means heavy drug use. This is a small sub culture of a sport concerning professionals. We can't claim with a straight face that it's an acceptable statistical coincidence the illnesses of "healthy" bodybuilders who get seriously ill. I know the many fans of steroids will rationalize this fact to negate viewing their own drug use in a negative light.
Me too. And Lyle Alzado died of HIV. He was a closet bisexual.
RIP XKOL.
so we have that he died of legionaries disease,
liver cancer due to fondness of oral ( my favorite )
fungal infection.
and now a viral infection.
Did something preclude him from coming down with anything else or have we run out of things?
maybe he was hit by a bus on the way to get his bacterial/viral/fungal infection checked out.
Holy smokes Lucius, the judge? For the love of mike! internet lists?
This is not how it goes down in court.
oh yeah. I remember something about that now that you have mentioned it.
I don't know what happened to JOhns that would lower his immune system to such an extent that a fungal infection could take over.
This is not a very common thing.
I thought it would be a criminal case with a judge?
By the way,Dave Johns died from Valley Fever, a fungal infection of the lungs.
Very rare disease.
Matt Mendenhall.
No, he's not dead but a number of years ago- almost 10 now- an interview with him appeared in a muscle mag. It was supposed to be an expose on all the problems he had as well as how it was that he never came to be a pro- without a doubt- one of the best bodies ever to never win a pro card.
It is mentioned in the article that Matt came down with some strange fungal infection that he just couldn't beat.
Now, seeing as how this was in a Muscle magazine, I have no idea if it is true or not.
here are a fewdom coriniti-31- gun shot take notice the two gun shot victims ethnicity.
Juan Ferrero - 40
Caesar Juliani - 22 - gun shot
Gene Massey - 26 - plane crash
Ray McNeil - 30
Victor Nicoletti - 50
Floyd Page - 38
Carlos Rodriguez - 48
Tom Sansone - 38 - cancer
Rock Stonewall - 54
Tony Terlazzo - 56
Ron Teufel - 45 - HIV