In a few weeks I want to start a HST programme; question about calculation?

[Deicide]

I was wondering if you have to calculate everything to a T or can you use yor gut feeling (probably not, huh?) and some other questions:

If I do it this way, example I can deadlift 145 kg for 5 reps, so how would I calculate the 10/15 rep scheme? Merely by decreasing 20% for 10? and 30% for 15? Also with the 5 rep scheme, after the first 145 kg, I probably would be knocked down to 140 on the 2nd set, what if you execute 10, 15 or 5 on the first set but fall short a bit on the second? Thanks all.

[WOOO]

my suggestion is to use the first week to refine your protocol then you'll have more precise numbers

[jpm101]

You are over thinking the whole progress. Lifting a weight is not designing a space ship to the moon. Famous quote in a lot of heavy duty gyms; K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Any new program should be given at least a week or two to work yourself into it. Thats experimenting to see what may or may not be a correct weight level for you. You adjust the weight to your individual level and your individual needs only. That is how you calculate resistance used. You do not need a slide rule. That 145kg X5 is not a true gage of what weight level to use for 15 rep. Go by how the weight feels and the effort require for those 15 reps, for example. Good Luck.

[Princess L]

I was wondering if you have to calculate everything to a T or can you use yor gut feeling (probably not, huh?) and some other questions:

If I do it this way, example I can deadlift 145 kg for 5 reps, so how would I calculate the 10/15 rep scheme? Merely by decreasing 20% for 10? and 30% for 15? Also with the 5 rep scheme, after the first 145 kg, I probably would be knocked down to 140 on the 2nd set, what if you execute 10, 15 or 5 on the first set but fall short a bit on the second? Thanks all.

Ultimately, it's not all about the AMOUNT of weight, it's about putting tension on the muscle.  It will be a work in progress and take some tweaking and probably a few cycles before you nail it.

This seems to work for beginners as a guideline on how to calculate weights.
5's = about 15% more than 10s
10s = about 20% more than 15's

So...If I can do 15 @ 100#, I should be able to do 10 @ 120# and 138# for 5

If that went perfect (and you can only really judge on the 6th workout of each mini-cycle), then I would increase the max numbers by about 2% for the next full cycle.

[slaveboy1980]

I was wondering if you have to calculate everything to a T or can you use yor gut feeling (probably not, huh?) and some other questions:

If I do it this way, example I can deadlift 145 kg for 5 reps, so how would I calculate the 10/15 rep scheme? Merely by decreasing 20% for 10? and 30% for 15? Also with the 5 rep scheme, after the first 145 kg, I probably would be knocked down to 140 on the 2nd set, what if you execute 10, 15 or 5 on the first set but fall short a bit on the second? Thanks all.

haha bullshit, having so many questions already should tell you something about the program. bodybuilding should be simple. pick a simple 3 day split and increase weights gradually. if you feel like shit one day then you lift lighter, if you feel good you go harder.

[slaveboy1980]

Ultimately, it's not all about the AMOUNT of weight, it's about putting tension on the muscle.  It will be a work in progress and take some tweaking and probably a few cycles before you nail it.

This seems to work for beginners as a guideline on how to calculate weights.
5's = about 15% more than 10s
10s = about 20% more than 15's

So...If I can do 15 @ 100#, I should be able to do 10 @ 120# and 138# for 5

If that went perfect (and you can only really judge on the 6th workout of each mini-cycle), then I would increase the max numbers by about 2% for the next full cycle.

OR YOU JUST FUCKIN LIFT THE WEIGHTS AND TEST YOUR 5, 10 and 15 REP MAXES BEFORE YOU START THE PROGRAM! besides if your have lifted for some years you should be able to make a very accurate calculated guess.

[haider]

haha bullshit, having so many questions already should tell you something about the program. bodybuilding should be simple. pick a simple 3 day split and increase weights gradually. if you feel like shit one day then you lift lighter, if you feel good you go harder.

why do u need to impose your view on someone instead of just asnwering a question related to the protocol  Especially if you don't understand the program and work off of your own assumptions.

[haider]

But slaveboy has a point, the weights don't have to be exact as long as you're acheiving progessive load (also, you dont need to be working at maximum capacity to acheive hypertrophy). However, the guidelines need to be followed, i.e. backing off the weight after every 2 weeks then building upto the given RM. I use the following chart (IMO better than the calculator, midway through the page) to calculate the RM's, if need be: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/1rm.htm

A general rule for 3-5 reps onwards is that the percentages decrease 2-3% (of 1 RM) with each increase in reps. I reccomend using the 5 RM to gauge your RM's prior to starting out the program. The 5 RM falls between 84-87% (avg approx 85-86%) depending on the exercise. I personally find the percentage pretty convenient.

So for example if your bench press like mine is 405 lbs for 5 reps:
5 RM = 405 lbs (85-86% of 1 RM)
1 RM = 405 divided by 0.86 = 470 lbs

To calculate 10 RM (assuming 2.5% drop for each rep) :
total drop: 5 rep deferential*(0.025) * 470 = 60 lbs
10 RM = 405 - 60 = 345 lbs

 

[SteelePegasus]

why do u need to impose your view on someone instead of just asnwering a question related to the protocol  Especially if you don't understand the program and work off of your own assumptions.

I usally find that asking for advice on something is pointless..most people don't answer the question..they are always give their view points irrespective of the question


for example...if you ask the question "what is HIT training and the philosophy and methodology behind it"

rather than answer the question most people will give you their current work out routine....totally leaving the question unanswered...and they would never say "I have limited knowledge about it and cannot be a source of reference on it"

[slaveboy1980]

why do u need to impose your view on someone instead of just asnwering a question related to the protocol  Especially if you don't understand the program and work off of your own assumptions.

i know alot about HST (tried it myself), and was one of the first members on haycocks HST forum and i had read several of his articles before he launched that website. haycock is a smart fellow with many good ideas...BUT i still stand by what i said.

also if you read my other post, i did answer the question. you either try your maxes in the gym before you start the program....dohhhh...or if you already know your 5 and 10 maxes for a certain exercises...anyone with some training experience should be able to make an edjucated guess as to what his or her 15 rep max is. trapeziu man..claims to have worked out 6 years or something like that and should be able to guestimate many of his maxes. also you dont have to have exact maxes...and when in doubt err on the safe side (start from less than your current max). its all about progression...some try to plan it all in advance...i personally dont like that method...you should progressively increase weights but you have to use common sense and let your daily form dictate what to do.

[haider]

MELTDOWN!!!!!!

 

i know alot about HST (tried it myself), and was one of the first members on haycocks HST forum and i had read several of his articles before he launched that website. haycock is a smart fellow with many good ideas...BUT i still stand by what i said.

heh, I just felt it was unnecesary on your part to come out and state your negative opinion of the program, when what is really in question is not the program itself but facts about it. In your first post you really say nothing but your own opinion of how it should be and how much it sucks, instead of how it is 

Let us quote you:

haha bullshit, having so many questions already should tell you something about the program. bodybuilding should be simple. pick a simple 3 day split and increase weights gradually. if you feel like shit one day then you lift lighter, if you feel good you go harder.

I didn't mean to question your understanding of the protocol, but it seems that you are putting the program down solely based on the methodology of loading alone. I think your post would have been better served if the emphasis was on the fact that one doesn't have to follow this method exactly, rather than trying to negate the whole training program; that the method is a means [for acheiving progressive overload], not the end.

also if you read my other post, i did answer the question. you either try your maxes in the gym before you start the program....dohhhh...or if you already know your 5 and 10 maxes for a certain exercises...anyone with some training experience should be able to make an edjucated guess as to what his or her 15 rep max is. trapeziu man..claims to have worked out 6 years or something like that and should be able to guestimate many of his maxes. also you dont have to have exact maxes...and when in doubt err on the safe side (start from less than your current max). its all about progression

Awesome post, agreed 100%

...some try to plan it all in advance...i personally dont like that method...

This is where you are getting into the territory of opinion, and hence my criticism of imposing your own view. This is a matter of preference, not subject to debate. No right or wrong.

you should progressively increase weights but you have to use common sense and let your daily form dictate what to do.

True man, but how "off" can you be from one workout to the other? On really "off" days might as well not even work out if you are not going to progress.

[haider]

Sorry man didn't mean to make a big deal about it, but a little criticism once in a while is good for debody  You seem like a good guy with good intentions, and with good knowledge. And fvcking funny as well.

[slaveboy1980]

MELTDOWN!!!!!!

 
heh, I just felt it was unnecesary on your part to come out and state your negative opinion of the program, when what is really in question is not the program itself but facts about it. In your first post you really say nothing but your own opinion of how it should be and how much it sucks, instead of how it is 

Let us quote you:I didn't mean to question your understanding of the protocol, but it seems that you are putting the program down solely based on the methodology of loading alone. I think your post would have been better served if the emphasis was on the fact that one doesn't have to follow this method exactly, rather than trying to negate the whole training program; that the method is a means [for acheiving progressive overload], not the end.
Awesome post, agreed 100%

This is where you are getting into the territory of opinion, and hence my criticism of imposing your own view. This is a matter of preference, not subject to debate. No right or wrong.
True man, but how "off" can you be from one workout to the other? On really "off" days might as well not even work out if you are not going to progress.

MELTDOWN   

[slaveboy1980]

Sorry man didn't mean to make a big deal about it, but a little criticism once in a while is good for debody  You seem like a good guy with good intentions, and with good knowledge. And fvcking funny as well.

no worries, debate/criticism and thinking for yourself is always good!

[WOOO]

MELTDOWN   

no kidding

[Hedgehog]

Trapezkerl, once you figure out a routine you could always post it here, perhaps those of us who's tried HST can screw it up 

j/k

Seriously though, it could be nice to avoid the mistakes we did.

One thing I would recommend is to keep the excersises to as few as possible, 8-10.

Also, you can alternate a few excersises:

Eg:

workout1
DeadLift
FrontSquats

2
Stiff Legged DL's
SQuats

3
DL
FS

4
SLDL
SQ

5
DL
FS

6
SLDL
SQ

Which means you would "only" train squats three times during the two weeks, but train legs 6 times.

[Deicide]

Trapezkerl, once you figure out a routine you could always post it here, perhaps those of us who's tried HST can screw it up 

j/k

Seriously though, it could be nice to avoid the mistakes we did.

One thing I would recommend is to keep the excersises to as few as possible, 8-10.

Also, you can alternate a few excersises:

Eg:

workout1
DeadLift
FrontSquats

2
Stiff Legged DL's
SQuats

3
DL
FS

4
SLDL
SQ

5
DL
FS

6
SLDL
SQ

Which means you would "only" train squats three times during the two weeks, but train legs 6 times.

Well the plan, irrespective of reps (5/10/15) is the following:

Shoulder Dumb Bell Press x2
Latpulldown x2
Bench Press x2
Seated Rows x2
Triceps press x1 (forgot what this is called in English)
Barbell Curl x1
Deadlift x2
Squat x2
Leg Lifts/Crunches/Calf Raises, Mon. Wed. Fri. respectively

Legs are last because my legs are and were always superior to my upperbody so priority principle.

In any event I am dieting so I won't be gaining anything; but I hope this way I can maintain my strength and through the constant compund exercises burn heaps of calories.

And just plain variation...mostly that in fact.