Universal health care in England & Canada

[OzmO]

Yes, i recently had a conversation with Canadians and Brits on universal health care in their countries.

Canadians:

It works, but you have to wait a long time for specialized services.  Sometimes they offer MRI at odd hours, so if you are willing to see get a MRI at 2am you can get it done faster.

We are having trouble keeping doctors in specialized fields.  In a few years much of it will be privatized, it will have to be.

Brits:

It's adequate.   If you want to get faster service, private practices that you have to pay for are available.

[Purple Aki]

I've honestly never had any complaints about the Health system in England (bar trying to find a NHS dentist), but then I've never been seriously ill or in need  of longterm treatment. There was a big outcry about the fact that certain cancer treatments etc were only available to you if you lived in certain parts of the country, but Labour are backtracking on this bigstyle. It never looks good when you have high profile deaths:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-485783/A-heroine-betrayed-Jane-Tomlinson-denied-drug-couldve-extended-life.html

A heroine betrayed: Jane Tomlinson was denied drug that could've extended her life
By CHRIS BROOKE
Last updated at 20:45 05 October 2007


Comments (  Add to My Stories
 
Fighting spirit: Mrs Tomlinson finishes a triathlon

 
Moving: Diary extracts
Cancer victim Jane Tomlinson was denied a new drug which could have extended her life because her NHS trust would not pay the £6,700 cost, her widower said.


The charity fundraiser was angry at suffering from a "postcode lottery" but refused to go public even though she was close to death, said Mike Tomlinson.

The mother of three had raised £1.75million, including "hundreds of thousands" for facilities run by the trust which refused to help her.

She preferred to "die early" rather than use her celebrity to get special treatment, said Mr Tomlinson.

"Jane has been fundamentally let down by an unjust system," he said in an emotional press conference held on his late wife's instructions.

"This is the National Health Service - potential life expectancy should not depend on where the person resides."

Mrs Tomlinson did get the drug lapatinib from another hospital but her condition had seriously deteriorated during the three-month delay.

She died last month of breast cancer, aged 43, but her family believes she could still be alive if it had been given to her promptly.

Her condition had improved dramatically when she started taking lapatinib - only available for patients with advanced breast cancer - with a second drug in April.

For a while, the disease was "under control" but she deteriorated again after 12 weeks of a research trial and died in early September.

Her widower received a personal apology from Dr Phil Ayres, deputy medical director of the Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust. He admitted more could have been done to find the money.

Mr Tomlinson said his wife was 'very unwell' after her final gruelling charity event in the US last year.

She had chemotherapy in her home city of Leeds but in January her oncologist said she needed lapatinib.

Taken in pill form, it can hold tumours at bay but is not yet licensed by the NHS.

It was available from GlaxoSmithKline as part of the trial. The drug was free but "additional costs" were £6,700 per patient.

The manufacturer also refused to supply Mrs Tomlinson on a "compassionate" individual basis. Eventually the City Hospital in Nottingham agreed to treat her.

"It caused a lot of distress," said Mr Tomlinson.

"The delay seriously affected her health. It is felt by the family this shortened her life."

He said the couple wanted to highlight the problems caused by a postcode lottery for patients.

He urged Gordon Brown - who paid tribute to Mrs Tomlinson when she died - to introduce a "consistent" policy in which all patients suitable for unlicensed trial drugs had access to the same treatment.

Such drugs should be available in an approved trial if licensed by another nation, said Mr Tomlinson.

"Jane wanted the issue to be drawn to the wider attention of the public," he said.

"She was extremely cross there were inconsistencies."

Lapatinib was approved in the US in March. A trial of 324 women given it with the drug Xeloda showed it delayed advanced breast cancer by eight months compared to four months for Xeloda alone.

[Hugo Chavez]

you have to wait a long time for specialized services here.  I had some shit on my skin that freaked me out so I wanted to get it checked.  The soonest appointment I could get in the state, and I called around, was in 3 months.  I thought, wtf, if it's the bad shit(cancer) I'll have a death sentence in 3 months.  I don't know about other specialized services, that just my one experience.

[Fury]

you have to wait a long time for specialized services here.  I had some shit on my skin that freaked me out so I wanted to get it checked.  The soonest appointment I could get in the state, and I called around, was in 3 months.  I thought, wtf, if it's the bad shit(cancer) I'll have a death sentence in 3 months.  I don't know about other specialized services, that just my one experience.

I can get an MRI in days without having to go at 2 am. The longest I've had to wait for a specialist of any sort in my life was three weeks and that's only because it was a non-serious or life threatening ailment. Don't you live in bumfucksville Wyoming or whatever it is?

[OzmO]

I can get an MRI in days without having to go at 2 am. The longest I've had to wait for a specialist of any sort in my life was three weeks and that's only because it was a non-serious or life threatening ailment. Don't you live in bumfucksville Wyoming or whatever it is?

 


actually  i think he lives in Denver.  The city just recently got dial up Internet and got rid of their dot matrix printers.


But you are right.  However, it seems I've heard with some it takes a few weeks or a couple of months sometimes with certain things.

But i can't imagine it being worse than England or Canada.

[youandme]

you have to wait a long time for specialized services here.  I had some shit on my skin that freaked me out so I wanted to get it checked.  The soonest appointment I could get in the state, and I called around, was in 3 months.  I thought, wtf, if it's the bad shit(cancer) I'll have a death sentence in 3 months.  I don't know about other specialized services, that just my one experience.

Jebus. That's stupid what if it was staph, you could be dead in a week.

[a_joker10]

Canadian Wait times.
http://cihi.ca/cihiweb/en/downloads/aib_provincial_wait_times_e.pdf

Emergency Care in Canada is fast, non Emergency or elective surgery can take a real long time.

[headhuntersix]

 


actually  i think he lives in Denver.  The city just recently got dial up Internet and got rid of their dot matrix printers.


But you are right.  However, it seems I've heard with some it takes a few weeks or a couple of months sometimes with certain things.

But i can't imagine it being worse than England or Canada.

I had a similar conversation about 6 months ago with Canadian pilots, they don't have mil health care like we do, they go where everybody else goes. They said that they use vacations or have seen people use vacations to the States to get surgery or other procedures done....and they mentioned the same waiting time as u did. 

[Nordic Superman]

I've honestly never had any complaints about the Health system in England (bar trying to find a NHS dentist), but then I've never been seriously ill or in need  of longterm treatment. There was a big outcry about the fact that certain cancer treatments etc were only available to you if you lived in certain parts of the country, but Labour are backtracking on this bigstyle.

NHS in Britain is a flat-out-joke.

Are you sure you're English? My guess is you're a Pole, Paki or "other" that thinks the FREE services MY TAX MONEY supplies you... is wonderful!

I can say I have the same opinion - I've never really required emergency services so ignorant old me thinks all well in NHS land.

[Hugo Chavez]

Jebus. That's stupid what if it was staph, you could be dead in a week.

I know, it turned out to be nothing but I was kind of pissed it was so hard to get in to see a dermatologist to have a look at it.

[Hugo Chavez]

I can get an MRI in days without having to go at 2 am. The longest I've had to wait for a specialist of any sort in my life was three weeks and that's only because it was a non-serious or life threatening ailment. Don't you live in bumfucksville Wyoming or whatever it is?

I was in Colorado at the time.  I'm not going to say everything is like that because I don't know.  I do know that time trying to get in to see a dermatologist was a long ass wait.  Of course there are other options but the first option I wanted to go with was not an option due to the wait. 

[OzmO]

I had a similar conversation about 6 months ago with Canadian pilots, they don't have mil health care like we do, they go where everybody else goes. They said that they use vacations or have seen people use vacations to the States to get surgery or other procedures done....and they mentioned the same waiting time as u did. 

I think if we ever seriously considered national health care, it would make something  worse that's already bad to begin with.


Not to mention our inability to do anything prudently when it comes to government programs.

[Benny B]

I think if we ever seriously considered national health care, it would make something  worse that's already bad to begin with.

Uhh...I think we are "seriously considering national health care", bro. That was the proposal of all the democratic candidates for president and presently on the platform of the democrat nominee.

[OzmO]

Uhh...I think we are "seriously considering national health care", bro. That was the proposal of all the democratic candidates for president and presently on the platform of the democrat nominee.

I don't think so.  I think the "NHC" proposal is right up there with Off Shore drilling.  Nothing but politics.   

Think about it.  we already have a bloated over priced system as it is with many companies profiting from it.  Then we are going to provide national health care in a way that doesn't significantly raise our taxes and at the same time provide a poor system?  Also at the same time tell all these companies that have powerful lobbies in Washington that they can no longer enjoy these profits?

I just don't see how that can happen.

Remember, if you live in england and make over 84k a year (dollars) you pay 40% taxes.  If your assets total over 500k (dollars) you pay 40%.   And they pay $10 a gallon for gas.  (lots of taxes on it)

The last thing in the world I will ever do, is pay taxes like that.

[OzmO]

Yeah, If we end up getting national health care we'll end up getting rammed in the rear for it.


The best case i see, is some sort of quasi program that provides health care for those who cannot afford it that is better then what we have now.

[Benny B]

The best case i see, is some sort of quasi program that provides health care for those who cannot afford it that is better then what we have now.

Perhaps. I am all for national health care for all Americans so I do not see this issue the way that you do.

[OzmO]

Perhaps. I am all for national health care for all Americans so I do not see this issue the way that you do.

I think we could do it without raising taxes.   But because of the way things are, i don't see it ever happening.