The Anabolic Diet...I think I've seen the light!

[Brixtonbulldog]

 Your knowledge of physiology as well as biochemistry leaves a lot to be desired. There is no hypoglycemia if you eat enough protein? Oh, really? Protein is even more problematic than fat as an energy source. Protein has to be converted into glucose in the liver by a process called gluconeogenesis, which is extremely ineffective and puts an enormous drain on the body's resource capacity. This is the reason why when you cut carbs your brain switches to ketones as it's energy source instead of continuing to get glucose from protein conversion in the liver. Turning protein into glucose is so metabolically expensive and ineffective that the body simply cannot furnish enough glucose for the brain by turning protein into glucose so it switches to ketones.

  And how are diets full of saturated fats healthier than high carbs diet? Saturated fats increase the output of LDL cholesterol in the liver whilst inhibiting the cytochrome 450 enzymes which metabolize it, increasing your risk of artherosclerosis. Very high levels of glucose do foster the formations of triglycerides which contibute to artherosclerosis, but the effect is much milder than that saturated fats do, and I am not recommending carbs that boost insulin but low glycemic carbs like brown rice, cream of wheat and yams. You can be absolutely, positively sure: a diet rich in brown rice and cream of wheat with little saturated fats is a lot healthier than a diet rich in bacon and eggs with little carbs. Your statement that a diet rich in saturated fatty acids is healthier than a diet with lots of low glycemic carbs is simply absurd. It doesen't even deserve an answer. You know nothing, dude.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

two questions-

first, if it is so ineffecient for the body to convert protein into usable energy than why is it so easy to lose muscle mass during intense cardio training regimens, inadequate protein intake, or after relatively short periods without strength training?  i have heard that the body can begin breaking down muscles for energy within 3-5 days if not continually stimulated.

also, is regards to cholesterol and high saturated fat intake.. i've seen studies showing that native african tribes, who's only diet consists of beef, cows blood, cornmeal, and milk, have almost no cholesterol or plaque buildup in thier cardiovascular systems.  so why is a diet high in starch and low in fats healthier than the opposite?  aren't bbers simply adapting a modified anabolic diet during contest prep?  

[Go 4 It]

Haha! Yes, good to see that this thread is still going! I still stand by this diet, I got good results from this diet, and I continue to incorporate this diet at certain times of the year.

[tbombz]

 I repeat: the process is extremely metabolically inefficient. This is why the brain uses ketones from fat and not glucose from protein gluconeogenesis as it's energy source when you cut out carbs. Why does this happen? Answer: because protein cannot be converted into glucose fast enough to supply the body's energy needs, putting it into a state of hypoglycemia. People on very low carbs diets are always slightly hypoglycemic.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

your bodies glucose demand is dependant on its glucose intake. eat less carbs=body uses less carbs. its that simple. hypoglycemia doesnt occur when adequate protien is eaten. plain and simple.

[suckmymuscle]

two questions-

  Sure.

first, if it is so ineffecient for the body to convert protein into usable energy than why is it so easy to lose muscle mass during intense cardio training regimens, inadequate protein intake, or after relatively short periods without strength training?

  Because protein is necessary for tissue maintenance, so if you stop eating protein your muscles will shrink. It has nothing to do with protein being converted into energy or not. If you eat tons of carbs but no protein, you will lose muscle because even though your body will use the carbs for energy and not the muscle tissue, the tissue is being continuously weared out by reactive oxygen species and teared from muscular contractions, and without protein to replace th teared protein muscle tissue it shrinks.

  As for aerobic exercise, it causes muscle waste not because of the muscles being used for energy as the glycogen runs out, but because aerobic exercise boosts epinephrine and glucocorticoid plasma levels, like cortisol, and these hormones tear away muscle tissue to be converted into sugar in the liver whilst sparing fat tissue.

 i have heard that the body can begin breaking down muscles for energy within 3-5 days if not continually stimulated.

  No, muscle tissue is ordinarilly not used as an energy source unless you are severely restricting calories and carbs. The reason why your muscle start atrophying after 10-15 days(not 3-5) if you don't exercise them is because the body realizes that big muscles are not needed anymore so it shrinks them. Big muscles are calorically costly to maintain, so the body only keeps them around if really needed. The body was designed to surivive in a primitive environment where calories are hard to come by, and since muscles demand a lot of calories to be maintained, the body is always trying to have as little as necessary to spare calories for the reallyn important organ, the brain.

also, is regards to cholesterol and high saturated fat intake.. i've seen studies showing that native african tribes, who's only diet consists of beef, cows blood, cornmeal, and milk, have almost no cholesterol or plaque buildup in thier cardiovascular systems.  so why is a diet high in starch and low in fats healthier than the opposite?  aren't bbers simply adapting a modified anabolic diet during contest prep?  

  Correlation does not equate causation. The explanation for this is very simple: they have very active lifestyles and since they eat little carbs, all the fat is used for energy instead of being deposited in the artery walls. Ask yourself the following question: why do the Eskimos, who have diest rich in saturated fats with no carbs, have much higher rates of artherosclerosis than the Okinawans who eat very little saturated fats and a lot more carbs? I do not deny that a diet rich in saturated fats and simple carbs, like the American diet, is even worst for the heart than a diet rich in saturated fats and poor in carbs, but this does not mean that saturated fats are good for your heat. All the evidence points out it is very deleterious for the heart.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

your bodies glucose demand is dependant on its glucose intake. eat less carbs=body uses less carbs. its that simple. hypoglycemia doesnt occur when adequate protien is eaten. plain and simple.

  No, protein cannot be converted into glucose fast enough to supply the body's energy need, which is the reason why the body switches to ketones when you cut out carbs. This simple fact proves everything you wrote wrong.

  You = lost the argument.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[tbombz]

the body doesnt "switch to ketones". the brain does. do you even know what ketones are? they are by products of fatty acid metabolism. when you cut carbs and eat protein, insulin drops and glucagon spikes, which transitions the body from glucose metabolism to fat metabolism. as i said in my last post, glucose demand is dependant on glucose intake. hypoglycemia doesnt occur when sufficient protein is taken in. fact. go read a diabetes journal idiot

[Brixtonbulldog]

 Sure.

  Because protein is necessary for tissue maintenance, so if you stop eating protein your muscles will shrink. It has nothing to do with protein being converted into energy or not. If you eat tons of carbs but no protein, you will lose muscle because even though your body will use the carbs for energy and not the muscle tissue, the tissue is being continuously weared out by reactive oxygen species and teared from muscular contractions, and without protein to replace th teared protein muscle tissue it shrinks.

  As for aerobic exercise, it causes muscle waste not because of the muscles being used for energy as the glycogen runs out, but because aerobic exercise boosts epinephrine and glucocorticoid plasma levels, like cortisol, and these hormones tear away muscle tissue to be converted into sugar in the liver whilst sparing fat tissue.

  No, muscle tissue is ordinarilly not used as an energy source unless you are severely restricting calories and carbs. The reason why your muscle start atrophying after 10-15 days(not 3-5) if you don't exercise them is because the body realizes that big muscles are not needed anymore so it shrinks them. Big muscles are calorically costly to maintain, so the body only keeps them around if really needed. The body was designed to surivive in a primitive environment where calories are hard to come by, and since muscles demand a lot of calories to be maintained, the body is always trying to have as little as necessary to spare calories for the reallyn important organ, the brain.

  Correlation does not equate causation. The explanation for this is very simple: they have very active lifestyles and since they eat little carbs, all the fat is used for energy instead of being deposited in the artery walls. Ask yourself the following question: why do the Eskimos, who have diest rich in saturated fats with no carbs, have much higher rates of artherosclerosis than the Okinawans who eat very little saturated fats and a lot more carbs? I do not deny that a diet rich in saturated fats and simple carbs, like the American diet, is even worst for the heart than a diet rich in saturated fats and poor in carbs, but this does not mean that saturated fats are good for your heat. All the evidence points out it is very deleterious for the heart.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

wow.  thanks

[suckmymuscle]

the body doesnt "switch to ketones". the brain does. do you even know what ketones are? they are by products of fatty acid metabolism. when you cut carbs and eat protein, insulin drops and glucagon spikes, which transitions the body from glucose metabolism to fat metabolism. as i said in my last post, glucose demand is dependant on glucose intake. hypoglycemia doesnt occur when sufficient protein is taken in. fact. go read a diabetes journal idiot

  Ok, I am giving you a warning for the insult. Three strikes and you are out.

  The fact that the brain switches to ketones indicates that, when you cut out carbs, protein cannot be converted into glucose fast enough to supply the brain's need. This is simple logic. What does this mean? That you are hypoglycemic, hence the brain needs an alternative enrgy source to supply it's needs.

  And no shit the brain switches from glucose to fatty acids as it's energy source, Einstein. Thank you for proving my point. And glucose demand is dependent on glucose intake? This is completely redundant. The bottom line is that you are hypoglycemic when you stop eating carbs which is why you feel dull on very low carb diets before your brain effectively starts getting ketones. The dullness that you get in the first few days of a very low carb diet is the result of low blood sugar levels. Duh. Not enough glucose on your bloodstream, hence you get dull. It's not my fault you can't understand something so simple.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

wow.  thanks

  Np, man. I am here to help the best I can.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[tbombz]

  Ok, I am giving you a warning for the insult. Three strikes and you are out.

  The fact that the brain switches to ketones indicates that, when you cut out carbs, protein cannot be converted into glucose fast enough to supply the brain's need. This is simple logic. What does this mean? That you are hypoglycemic, hence the brain needs an alternative enrgy source to supply it's needs.

  And no shit the brain switches from glucose to fatty acids as it's energy source, Einstein. Thank you for proving my point. And glucose demand is dependent on glucose intake? This is completely redundant. The bottom line is that you are hypoglycemic when you stop eating carbs which is why you feel dull on very low carb diets before your brain effectively starts getting ketones. The dullness that you get in the first few days of a very low carb diet is the result of low blood sugar levels. Duh. Not enough glucose on your bloodstream, hence you get dull. It's not my fault you can't understand something so simple.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

LMAO hypoglycemia refers to glucose density in the blood. it has nothing to do with what kind of energy the brain is using. hypoglycemia doesnt occur in healthy individuals who eat enough protien. fact.


btw, if you cant handle insults, then dont use them yourself. hypocrit

[suckmymuscle]

LMAO hypoglycemia refers to glucose density in the blood. it has nothing to do with what kind of energy the brain is using. hypoglycemia doesnt occur in healthy individuals who eat enough protien. fact.

  "Sigh". "LMAO" my ass. The brain is hypoglycemic(low sugar) hence it switches to ketones for energy. The fact that it switches to ketones indicates that the body cannot transform fats and proteins into glucose in amounts necessary to furnish the brain's energy needs with glucose. What does this mean? That you are hypoglycemic under a very low carb diet otherwise your body wouldn't use another energy substrate to complement it's energy needs. Yes, it makes glucose via gluconeogenesis in the liver but it is not enough to provide for the body's needs hence it also uses ketones.(hypoglycemia) Seriously, why is this so hard for you understand

btw, if you cant handle insults, then dont use them yourself. hypocrit

  When have I insulted you? Point it out. I sarcastically called you "Einstein" because the things you say strike me as illogical and nonsensical, but I only did it after you called me "idiot" which is much worst.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[benchmstr]

havent had carbs in around 5 days now....starting to get body cramps....

bench

[Brixtonbulldog]

i cheated today and had a bagel w/cream cheese cuz they were giving them away at work.  also had a swig of ginger ale after shoveling snow.  i figure no harm since i prolly used them all in digging out from this blizzard!

back to zero carbs now.

[NEED2PUMP]

Suck...great info....T-Bombz I see your side too. I definitely see there maybe some cons to this very low carb diet but I truly think the pros outweigh them. Realistically i don't think it would be the healthiest diet regimen to be on for a long period of time, but if followed correctly I would bet it is healthier than what the average fat and out of shape American eats day in & out year after year. My goal was to get on it and stick to it religiously for 4-5 weeks and see what happens. I've been training for enough years to know if it starts negatively affecting my muscle size or strength. I can honestly say the 2 weeks I have been on it I have had some incredible workouts. The only downside I've consistently felt is the need for a nap about 7pm. I have a nice 6 pack under just a little bit more bf% than I would like. I absolutely hate cardio so I thought I would try and burn some fat thru a hardcore diet. I am def feeling and looking a little leaner 12 days in we'll see what shakes out. Like everything else, it will be a different result for everybody depending on age, genetics, and metabolism.

[suckmymuscle]

Suck...great info....T-Bombz I see your side too. I definitely see there maybe some cons to this very low carb diet but I truly think the pros outweigh them. Realistically i don't think it would be the healthiest diet regimen to be on for a long period of time, but if followed correctly I would bet it is healthier than what the average fat and out of shape American eats day in & out year after year. My goal was to get on it and stick to it religiously for 4-5 weeks and see what happens. I've been training for enough years to know if it starts negatively affecting my muscle size or strength. I can honestly say the 2 weeks I have been on it I have had some incredible workouts. The only downside I've consistently felt is the need for a nap about 7pm. I have a nice 6 pack under just a little bit more bf% than I would like. I absolutely hate cardio so I thought I would try and burn some fat thru a hardcore diet. I am def feeling and looking a little leaner 12 days in we'll see what shakes out. Like everything else, it will be a different result for everybody depending on age, genetics, and metabolism.

  The Anabolic Diet makes no sense. No one has ever provided any evidence that it provides more growth than a diet with an equal number of calories with more carbohydrates. In fact, I suspect that a diet with an equal number of calories but a lot more carbs and less fat would work much better as less muscle would be catabolized during training and to provide the body with energy. Carbs not only spare protein tissue, but they hydrate muscles which stimulated protein synthesis.

  But it doesen't matter. As most of the posts in this thread show, most people go by anecdotal evidence, innuendo, fashion and believe in half-truths and blanket statements rather than scientific evidence and logic. Hence, me trying to convince them that this diet is simply illogical and that there is no evidence that it provides more growth than any other diet with an equal number of calories is redundant.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[tbombz]

hypoglycemia has nothing to do with what kind of energy your body is using, whether or not your mscules or brain is using carbs of fats. the brain switches after several days of low carbs, not the first day. it is not in response to low levels of blood suagr, its in reponse to several days of high fatty acid metabolism which causes a rise in ketones.

[suckmymuscle]

hypoglycemia has nothing to do with what kind of energy your body is using, whether or not your mscules or brain is using carbs of fats. the brain switches after several days of low carbs, not the first day. it is not in response to low levels of blood suagr, its in reponse to several days of high fatty acid metabolism which causes a rise in ketones.

  This statement makes no sense and is illogical. Of course it has. If the brain is not getting enough glucose(hypoglycemia) and has no way of raising glucose level to a level that is adequate to supply the body's needs , then it must switch to an alternate source of energy. This is simple deductive logic.

  And the body switches to ketones because it is acidic? Oh, really? Then why doesen't it switch to ketones when you are eating lots of protein and carbs? After all, protein metabolism generates a lot of acidic byproducts that leaves the body in an acidic state. And ketones are a byproduct of fat metabolization, and not protein metabolization. Ketones in the bloodstream have nothing to do with the body being in an acidic state. If you eat a zero carb diet but eat lots of vegetables to alkalinize your body, you will still get ketones in your bloodstream. Conclusion: ketones rise in response to low blood sugar levels. This is simple logic.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[tbombz]

  This statement makes no sense and is illogical. Of course it has. If the brain is not getting enough glucose(hypoglycemia) and has no way of raising glucose level to a level that is adequate to supply the body's needs , then it must switch to an alternate source of energy. This is simple deductive logic.

  And the body switches to ketones because it is acidic? Oh, really? Then why doesen't it switch to ketones when you are eating lots of protein and carbs? After all, protein metabolism generates a lot of acidic byproducts that leaves the body in an acidic state. And ketones are a byproduct of fat metabolization, and not protein metabolization. Ketones in the bloodstream have nothing to do with the body being in an acidic state. If you eat a zero carb diet but eat lots of vegetables to alkalinize your body, you will still get ketones in your bloodstream. Conclusion: ketones rise in response to low blood sugar levels. This is simple logic.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

again, hypoglycemia is a term for low blood sugar. it is not a term describing what kind of fuel source the body or brain is using. you can be hypoglycemic but using mostly glucose for fuel if you have decent glycogen levels.

just because a persons brain starts to use ketones, does not mean the person is hypoglycemic. if that was the case, then everyone on a keto diet would be walking aorund with hypoglycemia all day making it impossible for them to function. this is not the case.

where the fuck did i say anything at all about acidity or PH ? your the worst attempt at intelligence ive ever seen

[suckmymuscle]

again, hypoglycemia is a term for low blood sugar. it is not a term describing what kind of fuel source the body or brain is using.

  Why do you keep repeating this shit over and over again? Yes, hypoglycemia is a term of low blood sugar levels. Duh! Why the fuck do you keep repeating this all the time? I am not questioning this. In fact, I keep pointing this out to you. If the body is hypoglycemic, it is not betting enough glucose or converting proteins and fats into glucose fast enough to supply the body's energy needs.

you can be hypoglycemic but using mostly glucose for fuel if you have decent glycogen levels.

  This is irrelevant and simply not true. It doesen't change the fact that, when you are hypoglycemic, the body will start using alternate energy sources besides glucose for fuel. This is simple logic. If you cut out carbs, your body will first use the glycogen stores in the liver since glycogen can be converted into glucose much faster and easier than fats and protein. Glycogen can be converted into glucose fast enough to supply the body's enery needs, so no you won't be hypoclycemic until the body runs out of glycogen. Once that runs out, it will start converting fats and proteins into glucose as fast as it can, but since it can convert fast enough to supply the body's energy needs, it starts using fatty acids directly as well to supplement what the body needs. So you are wrong. As usual.

  just because a persons brain starts to use ketones, does not mean the person is hypoglycemic.

  Yes, it does!

if that was the case, then everyone on a keto diet would be walking aorund with hypoglycemia all day making it impossible for them to function. this is not the case.

  Again, they are hypoglyemic but after about a week or two the brain adapts to using ketones and it can use ketones as fast as glucose, so brain function resumes as normal. But for the first two weeks, people on ketogenic diets are always drowsy and confused. Why? Because the body cannot convert fats and protein into glucose fast enough to supply the brain's energy needs, so it starts using a complementary energy source since the glucose is low. That fact that the glucose is low is why the body starts using fatty acids as well. If it weren't low, it wouldn't need to since there would be enough glucose available. Why can't you understand this?

where the fuck did i say anything at all about acidity or PH ? your the worst attempt at intelligence ive ever seen

  That's strike two. More one and you are out. I recall you stating that the body using ketones has not to do with it being hypoglycemic but with it being in an acidic state. I think you edited your post, but I can't prove that. In any case, the body switching to ketones has nothing to do with it being in acidic state, otherwise people eating lots of proteins and grains, which put the body in an acidic state, would also be using ketones for energy and they don't. The body having acidic metabolism has nothing to do with it using ketones. It switches to ketones because there is no glucose around.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

hypoglycemia has nothing to do with what kind of energy your body is using, whether or not your mscules or brain is using carbs of fats. the brain switches after several days of low carbs, not the first day. it is not in response to low levels of blood suagr, its in reponse to several days of high fatty acid metabolism which causes a rise in ketones.

  Oh, and by the way, this is simply not true. The body would keep using glucose as fuel no matter how much fat you ate as long as you kept eating carbohydrates because it prefers carbs over any other energy source. The fat would be simply stored as bodyfat and the carbs would be used for fuel. The toxic aldehydes from fat metabolism would be eliminated just like the urea and ammonia from protein metabolism are eliminated and that's it. So I have come to the conclusion that you truly have no idea what you're talking about.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Brixtonbulldog]

12 days.. DONE!!!!

i just stuffed myself on waffles w/syrup, a big bowl of frosted mini-wheats, a ton of skim milk, a couple oreos, and a big glass of red wine.

since it is mid-week ill stop carbs again until the weekend then start the 5 days off and 2 days of carbs on the weekends.  i will also be doing the midweek carb ups so my workouts wont completely suck.

i lost about ten lbs so far but im not sure how much is water... maybe half?