Author Topic: Supreme Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage  (Read 114307 times)

Fury

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #700 on: January 05, 2010, 12:29:44 PM »
If you're so down on it, why are you wailing about the fact that, for all the other faults and shortcomings of those folks, this is one line that they (by and large) will not cross?

Either marriage is sacred or it's not. If it's not, your complaints about people preserving its one-man-one-woman definition are quite pointless (to say nothing of silly).

No, they're pretty useful actually. Religious conservatives hang onto this notion of marriage being this sacred concept. That it's special for people to get married when, as proven time and time again, that is hardly the case. People marrying and divorcing multiple times in their lives, engaging in extramarital affairs and the like only show that it's a joke. It's more like a business arrangement than a religious concept these days and should be treated as such.

Let me guess, you have no problems with someone divorcing and remarrying five times in their life, right? Sacred indeed.

Kazan

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #701 on: January 05, 2010, 12:40:54 PM »
What do they have their claws into? Marriage and abortion, for one.  ::)

Marriage is a joke. It has been bastardized to the point that it's commonplace for people to marry on a whim and divorce three months later. Yet gays shouldn't be afforded that right because of this religious notion that marriage should be between a man and a woman. What a waste. Just a game being played by the religious nutjobs to distract everyone from what really matters.

Same goes for abortion.

My life has not been affected in a single way since gay marriages started in my state. The fact that people have enough time on their hands to worry about who someone else marries is ridiculous.

And who basterdized marriage? sure as hell wasn't religion. No it was the leftwing mentality of anything goes as long as it feels good.

I have my own opinion on abortion, I think it is a barbaric practice, but everyone has to make their own decisions and answer for it some day.

People like you are the main reason why I dislike left-wingers, you preach all this tollerance and accept all, but are the first to sling the insults at whoever disagrees with you.
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MCWAY

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #702 on: January 05, 2010, 12:41:48 PM »
No, they're pretty useful actually. Religious conservatives hang onto this notion of marriage being this sacred concept. That it's special for people to get married when, as proven time and time again, that is hardly the case. People marrying and divorcing multiple times in their lives, engaging in extramarital affairs and the like only show that it's a joke. It's more like a business arrangement than a religious concept these days and should be treated as such.

Let me guess, you have no problems with someone divorcing and remarrying five times in their life, right? Sacred indeed.

You guess incorrectly!! Doing such damages families and scars emotionally. Usually, the reason that happens is because someone jumps immediately into one relationship, before healing properly from the wounds of the previous one.

There are many components to a marriage, business being among one of them.

Bottom line: We have the right to define marriage as we see fit. And our people have done such, when it comes to its basic construct.


Fury

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #703 on: January 05, 2010, 12:43:41 PM »
You guess incorrectly!! Doing such damages families and scars emotionally. Usually, the reason that happens is because someone jumps immediately into one relationship, before healing properly from the wounds of the previous one.

There are many components to a marriage, business being among one of them.

Bottom line: We have the right to define marriage as we see fit. And our people have done such, when it comes to its basic construct.



And you're right. We do have the right to define. So you won't be complaining as religion becomes less and less prevalent in people's lives and gay marriage gets legalized one day, right? I mean, the people do have the right to change their mind as well.


MCWAY

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #704 on: January 05, 2010, 12:43:49 PM »
And who basterdized marriage? sure as hell wasn't religion. No it was the leftwing mentality of anything goes as long as it feels good.

I have my own opinion on abortion, I think it is a barbaric practice, but everyone has to make their own decisions and answer for it some day.

People like you are the main reason why I dislike left-wingers, you preach all this tollerance and accept all, but are the first to sling the insults at whoever disagrees with you.

Furthermore, no-fault divorces are hardly a concept of religious folks. In fact, the reason why laws and principles, regarding marriage and sexual conduct were put in place, was to PREVENT such disasters (that stem from rampant divorce) from happening.


tonymctones

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #705 on: January 05, 2010, 12:44:30 PM »
Since marriage came with certain legal rights and privileges that are denied to another person based on sexuality.  That's when it became a rights issue. 
MARRIAGE ISNT BEING DENIED TO ANYBODY YOU NUMB NUT FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

any man can choose to marry any woman they want and vice versa

Ive asked this many times without one answer so Ill ask it again so you little liberals can run for the hills and this thread can die again until bay comes and posts some other ignorant shit...

Who is being discriminated against?

how is this a breach of the US constitution?

what rights are being violated?

run liberals run...

MCWAY

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #706 on: January 05, 2010, 12:46:26 PM »
And you're right. We do have the right to define. So you won't be complaining as religion becomes less and less prevalent in people's lives and gay marriage gets legalized one day, right? I mean, the people do have the right to change their mind as well.



Religion has ebbed and flowed, with regards to importance in people's daily lives.

I also take it that you won't be complaining either (or, actually, you will) if it becomes MORE prevalent in people's lives. As you stated, people do have the right to change their minds.

Fury

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #707 on: January 05, 2010, 12:48:10 PM »
Religion has ebbed and flowed, with regards to importance in people's daily lives.

I also take it that you won't be complaining either (or, actually, you will) if it becomes MORE prevalent in people's lives. As you stated, people do have the right to change their minds.

If that's what people decide that's fine.

MCWAY

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #708 on: January 05, 2010, 12:50:18 PM »
MARRIAGE ISNT BEING DENIED TO ANYBODY YOU NUMB NUT FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

any man can choose to marry any woman they want and vice versa

Ive asked this many times without one answer so Ill ask it again so you little liberals can run for the hills and this thread can die again until bay comes and posts some other ignorant shit...

Who is being discriminated against?

how is this a breach of the US constitution?

what rights are being violated?

run liberals run...

Well, you can't marry more than one woman at one time. Nor can you marry anyone, more closely related to you than a first-cousin. Nor, can you marry anyone younger than the BARE minimum age of 12.

But, for some reasons, I don't hear the pleas for polygamists, the incestuous, or the pedophiles, that their "civil rights" are being violated.

Soul Crusher

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #709 on: January 05, 2010, 12:51:29 PM »
I'm sure NAMBLA disagrees McWay. 

Fury

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #710 on: January 05, 2010, 12:51:53 PM »
The Mormons are always complaining about the polygamy crap. Certain groups at least. ::)

Kazan

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #711 on: January 05, 2010, 12:52:57 PM »
Their lobby isn't big enough yet, just wait
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chadstallion

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #712 on: January 06, 2010, 05:59:07 AM »
if its true that people should be allowed to vote on this proposed 'right' I think we should have a mass election day and really decide on a few other 'rights' that we were not allowed to vote on.
blacks being able to ride in the front of the bus; blacks being able to marry a white lady; and lets change the military back to what it was before legislative action overrode the will of the majority.    ;D
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tonymctones

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #713 on: January 06, 2010, 08:44:45 AM »
if its true that people should be allowed to vote on this proposed 'right' I think we should have a mass election day and really decide on a few other 'rights' that we were not allowed to vote on.
blacks being able to ride in the front of the bus; blacks being able to marry a white lady; and lets change the military back to what it was before legislative action overrode the will of the majority.    ;D
MARRIAGE ISNT BEING DENIED TO ANYBODY YOU NUMB NUT FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

any man can choose to marry any woman they want and vice versa

Ive asked this many times without one answer so Ill ask it again so you little liberals can run for the hills and this thread can die again until bay comes and posts some other ignorant shit...

Who is being discriminated against?

how is this a breach of the US constitution?

what rights are being violated?

run liberals run...

and I say again run liberal run... ::)

Tre

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #714 on: January 06, 2010, 09:37:03 AM »
You guess incorrectly!! Doing such damages families and scars emotionally. Usually, the reason that happens is because someone jumps immediately into one relationship, before healing properly from the wounds of the previous one.

There are many components to a marriage, business being among one of them.

Bottom line: We have the right to define marriage as we see fit. And our people have done such, when it comes to its basic construct.

You've done a shit job of it and refuse to admit that.

Both you and your 'god'  ::) are idiots, obviously. 

kcballer

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #715 on: January 06, 2010, 09:51:00 AM »
MARRIAGE ISNT BEING DENIED TO ANYBODY YOU NUMB NUT FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

any man can choose to marry any woman they want and vice versa

Ive asked this many times without one answer so Ill ask it again so you little liberals can run for the hills and this thread can die again until bay comes and posts some other ignorant shit...

Who is being discriminated against?

how is this a breach of the US constitution?

what rights are being violated?

run liberals run...

So the legal rights and protections given to a married couple that aren't given to a gay couple is not discrimination at all huh?

Would you tony, support giving all gay couples who want it the legal rights and protections that marriage offers but without the term marriage?
Abandon every hope...

tonymctones

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #716 on: January 06, 2010, 11:09:25 AM »
So the legal rights and protections given to a married couple that aren't given to a gay couple is not discrimination at all huh?

Would you tony, support giving all gay couples who want it the legal rights and protections that marriage offers but without the term marriage?
by your idiotic reasoning you should be for polygamy and incestual relations too  ::)...are you?

again brain children, gays are not a separate class of citizen, are they?

they have the right to marry any opposite sex person they want, their rights arent being denied anymore than mine are...

you see the govt can have separate laws for separate groups as long as they treat all ppl in those groups equally...think tax brackets, if youre in one tax bracket you recieve the same treatment as another person in that tax bracket but not the same treatment as a person in another tax bracket.

Men are men there is not 2 separate classes of men, gay or straight...

I am for privatizing the institution of marriage and giving everyone civil unions but also for eliminating the perks gays get as well...

gays are the new womens movement they say the want equality but they dont they want special treatment...that shit doesnt fly hoss

kcballer

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #717 on: January 06, 2010, 12:32:53 PM »
by your idiotic reasoning you should be for polygamy and incestual relations too  ::)...are you?

again brain children, gays are not a separate class of citizen, are they?

they have the right to marry any opposite sex person they want, their rights arent being denied anymore than mine are...

you see the govt can have separate laws for separate groups as long as they treat all ppl in those groups equally...think tax brackets, if youre in one tax bracket you recieve the same treatment as another person in that tax bracket but not the same treatment as a person in another tax bracket.

Men are men there is not 2 separate classes of men, gay or straight...

I am for privatizing the institution of marriage and giving everyone civil unions but also for eliminating the perks gays get as well...

gays are the new womens movement they say the want equality but they dont they want special treatment...that shit doesnt fly hoss

No.  You are the idiot claiming it is like polygamy and incest not me.  There is nothing polygamous or incestuous about a gay relationship. If you fail to see that maybe you should diversify your friend circle to not include just your dog and mom. 

Obviously you don't see the reason behind this and never will.  Which is sad aren't you suppose to be a lawyer in training? Even if you aren't you cannot see the other side of a debate. How will you ever hope to come up with anything more than a basic argument and understanding of any issue at hand without being so prejudiced.

Just what 'perks' do gays get tony? Please elaborate on how not having the same legal rights and standing as a hetro couple despite having the same feelings for one another is somehow a perk. 

The womens movement was an important part of our history.  Without it we would never have the equality that we do today.  Is it a level field? No but it's a damn site better than it used to be.  Sounds to me you're a little be backward Tony.  Perhaps you wish us to regress and turn back to the 1950's when 'men weren't gay and women were in the kitchen.'
Abandon every hope...

tonymctones

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #718 on: January 06, 2010, 01:38:37 PM »
No.  You are the idiot claiming it is like polygamy and incest not me.  There is nothing polygamous or incestuous about a gay relationship. If you fail to see that maybe you should diversify your friend circle to not include just your dog and mom. 

Obviously you don't see the reason behind this and never will.  Which is sad aren't you suppose to be a lawyer in training? Even if you aren't you cannot see the other side of a debate. How will you ever hope to come up with anything more than a basic argument and understanding of any issue at hand without being so prejudiced.

Just what 'perks' do gays get tony? Please elaborate on how not having the same legal rights and standing as a hetro couple despite having the same feelings for one another is somehow a perk. 

The womens movement was an important part of our history.  Without it we would never have the equality that we do today.  Is it a level field? No but it's a damn site better than it used to be.  Sounds to me you're a little be backward Tony.  Perhaps you wish us to regress and turn back to the 1950's when 'men weren't gay and women were in the kitchen.'
LOL brain child in terms of your ideas of denying rights they are exactly the same as homosexuals  ::) explain to me how giving gays the right to marry but denying polygamist and brothers and sisters the right is different?

LOL im no lawyer in training  ??? where did you get that, simply b/c i have a basic knowledge of law and how the govt works(which you obviously dont) doesnt make me a lawyer in training...

I completely understand your point of view but what you dont understand and cannot justify is how this is denying anyone their rights?

what part of the constitution is this breaching?

LOL how about being able to walk into any locker room and ogle a person they find sexually attractive without being arrested? sounds like a perk to me Id love to go stare at some of the women at my gym...you?

Again LOL you project these "wingnut" ideals onto me but you dont see that my points are valid. I agree we wouldnt have the same equality we have today without the suffrage movement. That however doesnt mean that women have gotten perks out of it that men do not have...same as the gays want.

dont tell me I dont understand your point of view, again Im in favor of civil unions for everyone so that was we will all be the same under the eyes of the govt. Marriage could become simply private and done without govt regulations.

whats wrong with that proposed plan kc?

kcballer

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #719 on: January 06, 2010, 02:49:07 PM »
LOL brain child in terms of your ideas of denying rights they are exactly the same as homosexuals  ::) explain to me how giving gays the right to marry but denying polygamist and brothers and sisters the right is different?

LOL im no lawyer in training  ??? where did you get that, simply b/c i have a basic knowledge of law and how the govt works(which you obviously dont) doesnt make me a lawyer in training...

I completely understand your point of view but what you dont understand and cannot justify is how this is denying anyone their rights?

what part of the constitution is this breaching?

LOL how about being able to walk into any locker room and ogle a person they find sexually attractive without being arrested? sounds like a perk to me Id love to go stare at some of the women at my gym...you?

Again LOL you project these "wingnut" ideals onto me but you dont see that my points are valid. I agree we wouldnt have the same equality we have today without the suffrage movement. That however doesnt mean that women have gotten perks out of it that men do not have...same as the gays want.

dont tell me I dont understand your point of view, again Im in favor of civil unions for everyone so that was we will all be the same under the eyes of the govt. Marriage could become simply private and done without govt regulations.

whats wrong with that proposed plan kc?

I didn't think you were a lawyer in training because of your board intelligence so please don't flatter yourself.  I thought i read somewhere you were taking night school law but must be mistaken. 

Once again you miss the point and use a redundant 'example' of incest and polygamy i mean seriously the fact you want someone to explain why that is not the same as same sex marriage rights truly shows you have zero understanding of this beyond - gay = bad straight = good.

There is nothing wrong with same sex couples having the same legal benefits and protections as married couples.  That we agree with.  I don't think the name matters to most it's the legal and inalienable rights of a married couple that same sex couples want the benefit of having.  Each American is allowed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Is that not a right afforded by the constitution?  nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. by denying a same sex couple marriage rights you are in effect denying them 'equal protection of the laws'.  You are taking their liberty, their choice away from them and condemning them to a life of second class rights and benefits UNLESS they marry someone of the opposite sex.  If that's not taking away someones choice and freedom what is? 

Also you are way off base with the whole 'locker room' thing.  To answer your question no i wouldn't want to go into the woman's locker room because unlike you Tony i am not a pervert or some kind of rapist.  If you think that just because a man is gay he automatically must look at every guy and want him then you really are misinformed on this subject. 
Abandon every hope...

chadstallion

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #720 on: January 06, 2010, 02:52:22 PM »
chances are I would avoid making all eye contact with any part of Tony; he's just too depressing.
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Kazan

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #721 on: January 06, 2010, 03:02:39 PM »
There is no constitutional right to marriage. And as far as Tony's references, he is trying to make a point that it is a sexual preference. So if homosexuals get this immaginary right then why not anyone one else who has a sexual prefernce other than heterosexual? In the most base form why are their male and female of each species? So that they can reproduce and further the species, so the logical conclusion is that homosexuality is abnormal behavior. Then I'm sure you will break out the born gay argument, but I have yet to see any proof that this is the case.
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Al Doggity

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #722 on: January 06, 2010, 05:18:40 PM »
Except there has never been any obligation for married couples to procreate and social conventions, much less laws, aren't dictated by base biological urges.

Marriage has, first and foremost, always been a business arrangement. Even though the idea of love is a factor in most cultures now, that is something that has come about in recent centuries. Dowries, arranged marriages and the concept of spouses were prevalent far before that. Even within religious-based unions. Even now, for all of the strands of love and devotion connected to it, marriage still seems to be more about financial stability than emotional stability.

That's why polygamy and gay marriage are not comparable. A marriage between two men , two women or a man and a woman all legally operate the same. If a man is married to several different women and he dies, are those women still married? If those women gave birth, do the children belong to all of the women equally or do they only belong to the respective woman who gave birth to them? What if the husband falls into a coma and has no living will? Which of the wives has power of attorney over him? If the women are employed, do they include the other wives' children on their health insurance? Are the women's tax obligations contingent on the number of children to whom they gave birth or the cumulative number of children in their family?

A polygamous marriage is an actual redefinition of marriage. A gay marriage isn't. There is no "slippery slope". It literally is just an inclusion of a group that had previously been arbitrarily excluded.The concept of two people creating a familial structure inherently makes sense, regardless of the gender of the people involved.



Skip8282

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #723 on: January 06, 2010, 06:49:51 PM »

That's why polygamy and gay marriage are not comparable. A marriage between two men , two women or a man and a woman all legally operate the same. If a man is married to several different women and he dies, are those women still married? If those women gave birth, do the children belong to all of the women equally or do they only belong to the respective woman who gave birth to them? What if the husband falls into a coma and has no living will? Which of the wives has power of attorney over him? If the women are employed, do they include the other wives' children on their health insurance? Are the women's tax obligations contingent on the number of children to whom they gave birth or the cumulative number of children in their family?

A polygamous marriage is an actual redefinition of marriage. A gay marriage isn't. There is no "slippery slope". It literally is just an inclusion of a group that had previously been arbitrarily excluded.The concept of two people creating a familial structure inherently makes sense, regardless of the gender of the people involved.





It's a very slippery slope.  Most, if not all, of those questions you posed have been litigated to no end.  And issues such as custody and no living will are litigated every day in this country.  These are not set, tried & true issues that have been resolved by the institution of marriage.  The very fact that polygamy is illegal has caused all of those issues not to be litigated for polygamists.

You can't make a legal operation argument when polygamists haven't even been given the chance to legally operate.  And, that pretty much means that, by your own words, it is just including a group that has been previously excluded.

The hypocrisy of the left in this issue is just brutal.  Well, we should be inclusive for gay people, but for those who want 5 wives or 7 husbands, well, we don't approve of that - so fuck you, lol.

Al Doggity

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #724 on: January 06, 2010, 07:25:28 PM »
I never said that polygamy should be illegal because I "don't approve." I said the comparison between polygamy and gay marriage is not apt.

 Yes, there are issues between married and formerly married people that are litigated daily, but these are issues of dispute involving extenuating circumstances among individuals.  When these issues are resolved, the legal precedents they set would apply to couples across the board, regardless of the gender of the parties involved. For the most part, familial structure and legal considerations  are very homogenous, even among alternative lifestyle families.  That isn't true of marriages containing more than two parties.

My legal operation argument is not that it would be impossible for polygamous couples to work legal arrangements. Even without polygamy ever having been legal here, it is perfectly obvious that it would not work in the same way traditional marriage has. On the other hand, there aren't really any pertinent legal issues that a gay couple would face that a male/female couple couldn't. Polygamy would be an actual redefinition of marriage.