Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle

[Krankenstein]

Just to harp on semantics. I know what you mean, though some or many researchers make a distinction between testosterone and anabolic steroids. Lots of scientific articles say "testosterone and anabolic steroids" as if there's a difference. The difference is that anabolic steroids a lot of times is meant to mean testosterone or other androgen derivatives (whether 19-nors, DHT, or testosterone derivatives*) with a steroid structure which were specifically developed for heightening the anabolic effect versus the androgenic. Of course test is anabolic too and of course it is a steroid as you say. And I know you know all this too, I'm not arguing you don't. But the distinction is sometimes made and it's based on something real but perhaps irrelevant in some discussion. I got into this debate on IG where I explained this and someone said, "fuck you, test is an anabolic steroid." Yes and no, sometimes the distinction is made, and I explained why.

Of course someone might not want to say they are on "anabolic steroids" for different reasons, like for claiming they are actually natural, and sometimes the difference is irrelevant. Semantic discussion of peace

There are other terms used that might be irrelevant too, like bioidentical and prohormone. I think many are a bit unclear on what is meant by bioidentical. Same with prohormone. Prohormone is often used by scientists but a drug testing org like WADA makes no distinction between anabolic steroids and what is sold as "prohormones" or "andro"-whatever. Some common anabolic steroids might actually be termed prohormones as the active metabolites formed in the body might be what causes most of the anabolic or whatever else response.

*

No argument with you on any point.  People freak out when they get prescriptions for "a steroid" from their PCP to reduce inflammation.  Then there is the explanation that those are the corticosteroids.  He argues he's not on 'drugs' yet the clear cut definition of a drug says otherwise.  There was a prescription bottle of his that clearly stated 'drug'.  Synthetic or bio-identical....the effect is the same, right?  Are their distinctions in side effects or other things?  Yeah...but thats not the point. 

He HAS to enter the non-tested things because he is using, by most (if not all) sports organizations' definition a PED.  He argues on here relentlessly that he is not...does he do that when he enters things?  Nope.  He just shuts his mouth and signs on the line and accepts it.

[Van_Bilderass]

He HAS to enter the non-tested things because he is using, by most (if not all) sports organizations' definition a PED.  He argues on here relentlessly that he is not...does he do that when he enters things?  Nope.  He just shuts his mouth and signs on the line and accepts it.

He is of course doing plenty of other drugs he isn't mentioning. He's done peds for 26 years or whatever, there is no reason why he would get on stage without being on a substatial stack, I mean his getbig rep was on the line! He has to harp on the bioidentical hormones and delta-8 because of legal reasons, "people" are reading this thread. It's completely understandable from his POV, so there's no real reason to keep arguing about it with him imo. The delta-8 makes you piss positive for THC so why not go for the real thing. Now he's talking about other legal cannabinoids, I suspect something happened with the legality of delta-8 or he doesn't want to piss dirty.

[joswift]

He is of course doing plenty of other drugs he isn't mentioning. He's done peds for 26 years or whatever, there is no reason why he would get on stage without being on a substatial stack, I mean his getbig rep was on the line! He has to harp on the bioidentical hormones and delta-8 because of legal reasons, "people" are reading this thread. It's completely understandable from his POV, so there's no real reason to keep arguing about it with him imo. The delta-8 makes you piss positive for THC so why not go for the real thing. Now he's talking about other legal cannabinoids, I suspect something happened with the legality of delta-8 or he doesn't want to piss dirty.

Brian is still probably on probation, hence the drug use lies...

[bhank]

Show me ONE spot where I did that Brian.  You CAN'T argue because I corner you on things and you say "I don't need to argue"....like some desperate female trying to avoid the truth when busted.

I don't think I am great....but I am damn well more versed on things than you.   Fucking spouting off shit you have read from Flex magazine.

If you are well versed then you would know all about various regenerative medicines and not think rehab meant just doing exercise in a vacuum. Dr don't discuss it either anything not covered by insurance doesn't get discussed it is wrong and malpractice. I have to specifically ask my Dr questions and you know what? They don't know the answers it's bad. Everyone wants to be some kind of specialist no one realizes you also need to be a generalist to be a good specialist. 

[bhank]

Just to harp on semantics. I know what you mean, though some or many researchers make a distinction between testosterone and anabolic steroids. Lots of scientific articles say "testosterone and anabolic steroids" as if there's a difference. The difference is that anabolic steroids a lot of times is meant to mean testosterone or other androgen derivatives (whether 19-nors, DHT, or testosterone derivatives*) with a steroid structure which were specifically developed for heightening the anabolic effect versus the androgenic. Of course test is anabolic too and of course it is a steroid as you say. And I know you know all this too, I'm not arguing you don't. But the distinction is sometimes made and it's based on something real but perhaps irrelevant in some discussion. I got into this debate on IG where I explained this and someone said, "fuck you, test is an anabolic steroid." Yes and no, sometimes the distinction is made, and I explained why.

Of course someone might not want to say they are on "anabolic steroids" for different reasons, like for claiming they are actually natural, and sometimes the difference is irrelevant. Semantic discussion of peace

There are other terms used that might be irrelevant too, like bioidentical and prohormone. I think many are a bit unclear on what is meant by bioidentical. Same with prohormone. Prohormone is often used by scientists but a drug testing org like WADA makes no distinction between anabolic steroids and what is sold as "prohormones" or "andro"-whatever. Some common anabolic steroids might actually be termed prohormones as the active metabolites formed in the body might be what causes most of the anabolic or whatever else response.

*

Thank you Van my understanding has always been that

[GymnJuice]

If you are well versed then you would know all about various regenerative medicines and not think rehab meant just doing exercise in a vacuum. Dr don't discuss it either anything not covered by insurance doesn't get discussed it is wrong and malpractice. I have to specifically ask my Dr questions and you know what? They don't know the answers it's bad. Everyone wants to be some kind of specialist no one realizes you also need to be a generalist to be a good specialist.

Hanky some of these alternative therapies you do aren't approved by the FDA for "regenerative" purposes. It isn't malpractice if the doctors don't discuss it with you. Their own malpractice insurance might not cover them if they recommend treatments like stem cell therapy, delta 8, anadrol, GH etc.

[Krankenstein]

If you are well versed then you would know all about various regenerative medicines and not think rehab meant just doing exercise in a vacuum. Dr don't discuss it either anything not covered by insurance doesn't get discussed it is wrong and malpractice. I have to specifically ask my Dr questions and you know what? They don't know the answers it's bad. Everyone wants to be some kind of specialist no one realizes you also need to be a generalist to be a good specialist.

Injecting substances is NOT active rehab.  I still have the screen shot from when you were first on here talking about your goodie bag of things you had that didn't start taking.  Let me guess, they were all for anti-aging and inflammation.  (MASSIVE eye roll on that).  Again show me where I contradicted myself.  Stop glossing over it and show me.  I dare you.

It is NOT malpractice.  You should look up the difference between malpractice and negligence.  Even then you couldn't convince anyone it truly was negligence.  Medical professionals follow very specific guidelines for pharmaceuticals, state licensing rules, and finally what is called "acceptable standards of practice".  Not something some piss ant bodybuilder is asking them for.  Want to know why so many practitioners don't do the stem cell shit like they were a few years ago?   Want to know why people have such a problem getting lower does pain meds like Tramadol?  Look into it. 

You asked you fucking hernia surgery doctor for HGH...he said no and you cried about it because your reading of ancillary studies for it being helpful with wound healing.  We all know why you wanted it.  "Wound healing".....right Brian....right.  I'll take Brian's Bullshit Reasons for $800 Alex.

Your last statement means fuck all.   You must think certain phrases sound cool and then type them.

[Van_Bilderass]

Want to know why people have such a problem getting lower does pain meds like Tramadol?  Look into it. 

What's the reason. How would you rate it against other opiates/opioids?

Here tramadol used to be easy to get, it wasn't even seen as that addictive. Now just asking for tramadol will make it so you definitely don't get it, might as well ask for pharmaceutical heroin. The reason for this shift, as far as I can understand, is that for awhile India was sending out tons of tramadol powder and many got hooked.  This was apparently not seen when it was a prescription item and not popular in druggie circles. There's apparently some weird legislation where it's classed as a narcotic when in powder form but not when in pharma preps. I like it a lot, but my connect was out when I just asked. It's a pretty good painkiller but a mega effective immediate antidepressant 

[The Scott]

If you are well versed then you would know all about various regenerative medicines and not think rehab meant just doing exercise in a vacuum. Dr don't discuss it either anything not covered by insurance doesn't get discussed it is wrong and malpractice. I have to specifically ask my Dr questions and you know what? They don't know the answers it's bad. Everyone wants to be some kind of specialist no one realizes you also need to be a generalist to be a good specialist.

In a world where kids are taught they can grow up to be anything bhanky chose to be a stupid, rude, fucking C-UNT.

[Krankenstein]

What's the reason. How would you rate it against other opiates/opioids?

Here tramadol used to be easy to get, it wasn't even seen as that addictive. Now just asking for tramadol will make it so you definitely don't get it, might as well ask for pharmaceutical heroin. The reason for this shift, as far as I can understand, is that for awhile India was sending out tons of tramadol powder and many got hooked.  This was apparently not seen when it was a prescription item and not popular in druggie circles. There's apparently some weird legislation where it's classed as a narcotic when in powder form but not when in pharma preps. I like it a lot, but my connect was out when I just asked. It's a pretty good painkiller but a mega effective immediate antidepressant 

Basically because of how MD's have to justify the opioid scripts.  How many people have asked for more and more doses of it....when they really didn't need it. 

[joswift]

What's the reason. How would you rate it against other opiates/opioids?

Here tramadol used to be easy to get, it wasn't even seen as that addictive. Now just asking for tramadol will make it so you definitely don't get it, might as well ask for pharmaceutical heroin. The reason for this shift, as far as I can understand, is that for awhile India was sending out tons of tramadol powder and many got hooked.  This was apparently not seen when it was a prescription item and not popular in druggie circles. There's apparently some weird legislation where it's classed as a narcotic when in powder form but not when in pharma preps. I like it a lot, but my connect was out when I just asked. It's a pretty good painkiller but a mega effective immediate antidepressant 

I can get Tramadol from my doctor anytime I want to

[Krankenstein]

I can get Tramadol from my doctor anytime I want to

The US sucks when it comes to meds.  Plain and simple.

[bhank]

What's the reason. How would you rate it against other opiates/opioids?

Here tramadol used to be easy to get, it wasn't even seen as that addictive. Now just asking for tramadol will make it so you definitely don't get it, might as well ask for pharmaceutical heroin. The reason for this shift, as far as I can understand, is that for awhile India was sending out tons of tramadol powder and many got hooked.  This was apparently not seen when it was a prescription item and not popular in druggie circles. There's apparently some weird legislation where it's classed as a narcotic when in powder form but not when in pharma preps. I like it a lot, but my connect was out when I just asked. It's a pretty good painkiller but a mega effective immediate antidepressant 

It is not an opiod it is absolutely misclassified

[joswift]

It is not an opiod it is absolutely misclassified

Are you just wrong or is that a lie?

Tramadol is a specific type of narcotic medicine called an opioid that is approved to treat moderate to moderately severe pain in adults. It is available under the brand names Ultram, Ultram ER, Conzip, and also as generics. Tramadol is also available in combination with the pain reliever acetaminophen under the brand name Ultracet and as generics.

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/postmarket-drug-safety-information-patients-and-providers/tramadol-information

[Krankenstein]

It is not an opiod it is absolutely misclassified

Surely you can't be that stupid.

Stick to giving out random stock tips douchebag

[bhank]

Are you just wrong or is that a lie?
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/postmarket-drug-safety-information-patients-and-providers/tramadol-information

Again it is absolutely not an opioid it is misclassified. If any of you actually had a history of opioid usage you would know that. I read some articles explaining why the FDA misclassified it at one point but regardless it is misclassified not an opioid.

All opioids do the exact same thing at dosage there is no difference between vicodin, nubain, fentanyly, oxycoton, and Heroin it is all the same at dosage it will all have the exact same effect. Except Tramadol it has absolutely will not have any opioid effect at any dosage because it is not an opioid.

[BB]

Again it is absolutely not an opioid it is misclassified

Proof?

(This is going to be the tomato debate all over again.)

[Krankenstein]

Again it is absolutely not an opioid it is misclassified. If any of you actually had a history of opioid usage you would know that. I read some articles explaining why the FDA misclassified it at one point but regardless it is misclassified not an opioid.

All opioids do the exact same thing at dosage there is no difference between vicodin, nubain, fentanyly, oxycoton, and Heroin it is all the same at dosage it will all have the exact same effect. Except Tramadol it has absolutely will not have any opioid effect at any dosage because it is not an opioid.

Hmnmmmmm

"Tramadol was approved for marketing in the United States as a non-controlled analgesic in 1995 under the trade name of Ultram®. However, soon after its approval there have been reports of diversion and abuse of tramadol. This led to revisions to the product labeling and the addition of warnings about its abuse by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Tramadol is an opioid analgesic and opioid activity is the overriding contributor to its pharmacological effects. Abuse and adverse events of tramadol are similar to those of other opioid analgesics."

https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drug_chem_info/tramadol.pdf

As of FEB 2024 DICK CHEESE!!!

You should be banned for how stupid you are.  Please point out these articles you read.   Why would anyone's history of opioid usage give them the understanding on classification?

[BB]

Again it is absolutely not an opioid it is misclassified. If any of you actually had a history of opioid usage you would know that. I read some articles explaining why the FDA misclassified it at one point but regardless it is misclassified not an opioid.

All opioids do the exact same thing at dosage there is no difference between vicodin, nubain, fentanyly, oxycoton, and Heroin it is all the same at dosage it will all have the exact same effect. Except Tramadol it has absolutely will not have any opioid effect at any dosage because it is not an opioid.

The FDA's big paper on Tramadol -

https://www.fda.gov/media/156139/download -

Page 16 - "Tramadol is a centrally acting atypical opioid that is differentiated from conventional opioids such as morphine or codeine (which is a pro-drug of morphine) by its dual mechanism of analgesia. It combines weak mu opioid agonist activity and non-opioid mode of pain relief and both opioid and non-opioid mechanisms are important contributors to tramadol’s analgesic effect (Raffa 1992, Raffa 1996)."

Page 16 - "The overall analgesic action of tramadol comes from these multiple pharmacological mechanisms of opioid and nonopioid actions that results in ‘synergistic potentiation,’ i.e., the degree of pain relief is greater than the sum of the individual components of its action"

Page 17 - "Tramadol is often the only opioid used in patients with post-operative pain, and its use in combination with non-opioid
medicine provides adequate pain relief while reducing the use of more abusable opioids"

Page 17 - "Oral tramadol’s current schedule IV classification reflects the scientific understanding that tramadol has less abuse potential than conventional pure mu opioid agonists and is supported by extensive preclinical, clinical, post-marketing and epidemiological studies conducted by various academic institutions, sponsors, and government agencies, including the recent report on tramadol by the WHO expert committee on drug dependence in November 2018 (WHO 2018), as well as our review of the data on the abuse of tramadol in the U.S. and in European countries where IV formulation is available (Section 7)."

It's a weak opioid Hankins, but it's still an opioid.

[bhank]

Hmnmmmmm

"Tramadol was approved for marketing in the United States as a non-controlled analgesic in 1995 under the trade name of Ultram®. However, soon after its approval there have been reports of diversion and abuse of tramadol. This led to revisions to the product labeling and the addition of warnings about its abuse by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Tramadol is an opioid analgesic and opioid activity is the overriding contributor to its pharmacological effects. Abuse and adverse events of tramadol are similar to those of other opioid analgesics."

https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drug_chem_info/tramadol.pdf

As of FEB 2024 DICK CHEESE!!!

You should be banned for how stupid you are.  Please point out these articles you read.   Why would anyone's history of opioid usage give them the understanding on classification?

Again It is absolutely not a fucking opioid I don't give a fuck what the FDA says about classifications. I can tell the difference between an opioid and a non-opioid . I was prescribed mega doses of the shit as a teenager for my knee surgeries. I have had a half dozen surgeries. I have used prescription opioids on and off for 30 years. When you take an opioid you get an opioid itch it happens with every single actual opioid. It will not happen with Tramadol at any dosage it is not an opioid. I love opioids I have chronic pain. I will not even take tramadol fuck there have been bottles of it just laying around here for years. I won't touch it because it is absolutely not an opioid if it was you could take a bunch and get the opioid itch you can not get that at any dosage on tramadol.

[bhank]

The FDA's big paper on Tramadol -

https://www.fda.gov/media/156139/download -

Page 16 - "Tramadol is a centrally acting atypical opioid that is differentiated from conventional opioids such as morphine or codeine (which is a pro-drug of morphine) by its dual mechanism of analgesia. It combines weak mu opioid agonist activity and non-opioid mode of pain relief and both opioid and non-opioid mechanisms are important contributors to tramadol’s analgesic effect (Raffa 1992, Raffa 1996)."

Page 16 - "The overall analgesic action of tramadol comes from these multiple pharmacological mechanisms of opioid and nonopioid actions that results in ‘synergistic potentiation,’ i.e., the degree of pain relief is greater than the sum of the individual components of its action"

Page 17 - "Tramadol is often the only opioid used in patients with post-operative pain, and its use in combination with non-opioid
medicine provides adequate pain relief while reducing the use of more abusable opioids"

Page 17 - "Oral tramadol’s current schedule IV classification reflects the scientific understanding that tramadol has less abuse potential than conventional pure mu opioid agonists and is supported by extensive preclinical, clinical, post-marketing and epidemiological studies conducted by various academic institutions, sponsors, and government agencies, including the recent report on tramadol by the WHO expert committee on drug dependence in November 2018 (WHO 2018), as well as our review of the data on the abuse of tramadol in the U.S. and in European countries where IV formulation is available (Section 7)."

It's a weak opioid Hankins, but it's still an opioid.

It is not an opioid your body can not tell the difference between hydrocodone and heroin or fentanyl or oxy or nubain or morphine at dosage they all feel the same you fill get the opioid itch on all of them. You will never get it on Tramadol at any dosage not an opioid.

Also FYI it was not originally classified as an opioid because it is not one they reclassified it because it is "simular"

https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/Tramadol-a-New-Classification-as-a-Controlled-Substance

[BB]

.

.

Not 1 result.

[bhank]

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/historically-safer-tramadol-more-likely-than-other-opioids-to-result-in-prolonged-use/

More likely than opioids as again it is not a fucking opioid

[bhank]

.

.

Not 1 result.

Sorry you just heard about this yesterday but it was reclassified its not an opioid by all means do more research  or better yet go develop an opioid addiction then try some tramadol and tell me if it is an opioid. Fucking insane about as dumb as DJ reading and listening to youtube and thinking he knws shit about peds he hasn't used has no personal history

[BB]

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/historically-safer-tramadol-more-likely-than-other-opioids-to-result-in-prolonged-use/

More likely than opioids as again it is not a fucking opioid

"Historically ‘safer’ tramadol more likely than other opioids to result in prolonged use".

"This data will force us to reevaluate our postsurgical prescribing guidelines," says lead author Cornelius Thiels, D.O., a general surgery resident in Mayo Clinic School of Graduate Medical Education. "And while tramadol may still be an acceptable option for some patients, our data suggests we should be as cautious with tramadol as we are with other short-acting opioids."

Your own link disagrees with you.