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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: WOOO on December 02, 2012, 06:01:42 PM
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So I bought a new shot put... (my old one is a 10lber, but it was getting light so i bought a 16lber (olympic weight)) and used it in my sunday explosive workout (30x 10 seconds sprints pushing my grand caravan down the street (wife steering) & 4x superset of 4 different shot put throws for 10 reps each)...
Not only is the shot put a great way to increase peak punching power it's fucking fun... nothing reduces stress like chucking something heavy... personally, I do this at Woodbine beach near Toronto on the sand beside lake ontario... makes for a nice sunday.
is anyone else trying crazy shit like this? i'm going back to the boxing club near my house to have my right hand tested again... between the bulgarian bag and the shot put it's getting explosive as hell
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I used to love training in creative ways like this when i used to do martial arts :)
Bulgarian bags are fun! Used to do this kind of stuff before I ever touched weights actually.
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I used to love training in creative ways like this when i used to do martial arts :)
Bulgarian bags are fun! Used to do this kind of stuff before I ever touched weights actually.
i still lift heavy weights but i make room to mix everything else in of off days... been doing the tick for me
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i still lift heavy weights but i make room to mix everything else in of off days... been doing the tick for me
sounds like you are having fun Wooo... ;D
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sounds like you are having fun Wooo... ;D
living the dream
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Throwing the shot put is great for power building. There is a difference between power and strength. I tried once here to explain the difference but I got shot down by 20 year old training experts. If you want to be good at a sport like wrestling, boxing, olympic lifting, sprinting, football, or just about any real sport then training for power is really important. Being strong is meaningless unless you can release that strength quickly. How many times have you seen a 400lb plus guy hitting a heavy bag like a girl and a 225 bench guy hit it like a ton of bricks?
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Throwing the shot put is great for power building. There is a difference between power and strength. I tried once here to explain the difference but I got shot down by 20 year old training experts. If you want to be good at a sport like wrestling, boxing, olympic lifting, sprinting, football, or just about any real sport then training for power is really important. Being strong is meaningless unless you can release that strength quickly. How many times have you seen a 400lb plus guy hitting a heavy bag like a girl and a 225 bench guy hit it like a ton of bricks?
so for power its true that single reps should be done and higher for strength?
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Power is one of the most important commodities in sport. It doesn't matter if you are strong if you can't unleash that strength quickly. Power is often describes as force times velocity.
If you're a boxer it doesn't matter if you bench 400 lbs and other impressive lifts if you can't release that strength quickly. There are some really soft hitting big number lifters. There are really hard hitting guys that can't bench 250 lbs. If you squat 500 lbs but can't explode that strength quickly you won't be able to dunk or sprint for that matter. Look at a pro golfer when he hits that big drive. Some who are ill informed will say that's technique. Technique will determine direction and placement but make no mistake that a long drive is an example of power.
Power is more important in sports than pure strength. Strength does build power to an extent but never confuse power with strength. The term functional strength has been use for awhile yet it's meaning is misunderstood. Most just use the simplistic getting stronger is functional mantra. Functional strength term when used in it's proper context should be talking about increasing power toward an athletic goal.
How do you develop this speed power? First a partial derivative of strength training is an increase in power. As an athlete you should incorporate specific power exercises. Many who have never done Olympic lifts such as power cleans are surprised to find their sprinting speed and jumping ability go up dramatically. Truth be told Olympic lifting should have been labeled power lifting and power lifting; strength lifting. Sprints and jumps are power exercises. Throwing objects like a shot put or medicine balls increase power. Also hitting a heavy bag is another. Explosive push ups are also good. One of the things that first leave aging athletes is power not strength.
Maybe next time I will cover conditioning. A forgotten commodity in bodybuilding. All the strength and power is useless if an athlete gases because there is nothing in the tank.
If your a bodybuilder who wants to include a real power builder I would do power cleans or high pulls without the catch at the shoulders.
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Power is one of the most important commodities in sport. It doesn't matter if you are strong if you can't unleash that strength quickly. Power is often describes as force times velocity.
If you're a boxer it doesn't matter if you bench 400 lbs and other impressive lifts if you can't release that strength quickly. There are some really soft hitting big number lifters. There are really hard hitting guys that can't bench 250 lbs. If you squat 500 lbs but can't explode that strength quickly you won't be able to dunk or sprint for that matter. Look at a pro golfer when he hits that big drive. Some who are ill informed will say that's technique. Technique will determine direction and placement but make no mistake that a long drive is an example of power.
Power is more important in sports than pure strength. Strength does build power to an extent but never confuse power with strength. The term functional strength has been use for awhile yet it's meaning is misunderstood. Most just use the simplistic getting stronger is functional mantra. Functional strength term when used in it's proper context should be talking about increasing power toward an athletic goal.
How do you develop this speed power? First a partial derivative of strength training is an increase in power. As an athlete you should incorporate specific power exercises. Many who have never done Olympic lifts such as power cleans are surprised to find their sprinting speed and jumping ability go up dramatically. Truth be told Olympic lifting should have been labeled power lifting and power lifting; strength lifting. Sprints and jumps are power exercises. Throwing objects like a shot put or medicine balls increase power. Also hitting a heavy bag is another. Explosive push ups are also good. One of the things that first leave aging athletes is power not strength.
Maybe next time I will cover conditioning. A forgotten commodity in bodybuilding. All the strength and power is useless if an athlete gases because there is nothing in the tank.
If your a bodybuilder who wants to include a real power builder I would do power cleans or high pulls without the catch at the shoulders.
an intresting post..yes please do cover conditioning. Infact you should start a thread about your ideas. Plyotonics is good for some sports too and i agree that conditioning is important. I do not lift massive weights but really concentrate on what i am doing.
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i love these power movements... good cardio and they are fun... literally... throwing a shot put, swinging a sledge hammer, etc... it barely feels like exercise
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i love these power movements... good cardio and they are fun... literally... throwing a shot put, swinging a sledge hammer, etc... it barely feels like exercise
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For punching power i always liked using this bar in a bench press position
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i also include explosive sandbag throws in my sandbag workout... i clean it and then shove-throw it as far as i can...
it's tough to shove 150lbs of dead weight!
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WOO: Try throwing a couple of 150lb drunk, fighting and loud women out of a bar. A ultimate strength challenge. Don't pay you enough to do that, on a Saturday night.
Ever do DB side presses or the original bent press in your power training? Or use a heavier Kettle bell for heaving/putting rather that the standard shot? Ballistic training becomes very important also.
Any overhead pressing (two hand or one) will improve punching force, rather than standard benches. Good Luck.
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WOO: Try throwing a couple of 150lb drunk, fighting and loud women out of a bar. A ultimate strength challenge. Don't pay you enough to do that, on a Saturday night.
Ever do DB side presses or the original bent press in your power training? Or use a heavier Kettle bell for heaving/putting rather that the standard shot? Ballistic training becomes very important also.
Any overhead pressing (two hand or one) will improve punching force, rather than standard benches. Good Luck.
well maybe jPM but if you do wing chun or Jeet kune do then a punch comes from direct from your centre, "chain punches". The tricep bar with its parallel close grip is excellent for this.
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WOO: Try throwing a couple of 150lb drunk, fighting and loud women out of a bar. A ultimate strength challenge. Don't pay you enough to do that, on a Saturday night.
Ever do DB side presses or the original bent press in your power training? Or use a heavier Kettle bell for heaving/putting rather that the standard shot? Ballistic training becomes very important also.
Any overhead pressing (two hand or one) will improve punching force, rather than standard benches. Good Luck.
i've tried all kinds of things over the years... i tend to change things around in my workouts every few weeks... i'm still training 7 days a week
as for throwing people out of bars, i had my share of those experiences working as a doorman throughout my university days...
shitty job for shitty money
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Woo: Yes bad job choice, for little bucks. But you do meet some exceptional women..if only for a overnight stay (preferred). Off season/college, worked in a couple of PCH beach bars. Pretty much moving people along who do not intend to be moved along. This is where elbows and body weight and leverage come in handy. And never raising your voice, but once. Dark parking lots (usually behind the bar) hold the most caution. Though, myself, never encountered much of any problem. More aggressive bouncer's usually do.
Donny: we just have different views. Familiar with most forms of martial arts. Philippine and Okinawa Te , for me, are the most productive styles. Of course a seasoned street fighter probably would have his way with most martial players. Have to be good at fighting in close quarters, like back against a wall or in the size of a phone booth (none here in SoCal anymore).
Overhead presses call upon more supporting body action, from the feet/ground up, when hitting than do benches. Plus looking at the mechanics of a punch, you can see the better recruitment of the actual punching chain of power. Aware of the famous three inch, from a dead stop, punch of Bruce Lee and a few others. Impressive, but for most of us mortals..not going to happen. Bruce Lee did a lot of quickness (rather than speed) training from static positions. Truly one man in a million. Good Luck.
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Thank you for your points JPM. However if i will punch it is a direct line(WING CHUN) the punch is not Bruce lees creation but from a chinese monk a woman. chain punches are very fast and need training. However power comes from the triceps and centre.. making the punch short but fast. The swinging street fighter punch can work but to anyone who has boxed too easy to spot and deal with. The stances in Wing chun are trained too as in most martial arts through variouse stances. I can not agree with you that the overhead press is more practical for a wing chun fighter or boxer. Read a book from Keith R Kernsprecht "Wing Tzun" the art from Leung Ting. Wing Chun is called also Ving tzun .. Wing Tzun and various names from each master. Emin Bozep was a great student of Kernsprecht and is in LA very well known. He is also very well known with Latosa Escrima. If you read Kernsprechts book he recommends squats for legs.
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Woo: Yes bad job choice, for little bucks. But you do meet some exceptional women..if only for a overnight stay (preferred). Off season/college, worked in a couple of PCH beach bars. Pretty much moving people along who do not intend to be moved along. This is where elbows and body weight and leverage come in handy. And never raising your voice, but once. Dark parking lots (usually behind the bar) hold the most caution. Though, myself, never encountered much of any problem. More aggressive bouncer's usually do.
yeah i saw the same shit... had a buddy with a big mouth who got stabbed one night outside the club... i always found that diplomacy worked wonders... i mean if i am out and shitfaced the worst thing you could do is get in my face... but if you talk to me i'll take a hint ;D
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http://de.scribd.com/doc/14111309/Krafttraining-fur-Kung-Fu-und-Karate-2002
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notice the exercise on page 28... this an old but good book. I used methods from this in my training. Not sure if you can get it in English.. maybe you can translate it because its a great read and makes a lot of sense. Over the years i have trained in various systems. The Wing tzun schools of Kernsprecht and leung ting are spread over Europe. Another system very good is the ving tsun system from Philip Bayer in Germany and he represents this line in Europe has a web side... this is a system from Wong shun leung.
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Chrome did a decent job of translating the book (thanks for posting the link)... some interesting ideas
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Chrome did a decent job of translating the book (thanks for posting the link)... some interesting ideas
no problem...itīs old but a good read. I had the book some years ago but gave it to a guy who started training in Wing Tzun..
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Donny: Sorry, just using the Bruce Lee blow as an example (gotten from a the Chinese nun, as you noted...the death touch ((myth or not)) and the influence of planet positions, timing of the day/night, and the area of the body that planet rules would also be a interesting subject to follow...some suggest that was the cause of Lee's young death). As with any good martial artist, getting the total body into a short, direct strike is vital. Different views on the source of power: Need more that the triceps. The center of power comes from the lower spine and legs, from the ground up.
A experienced street fighter would rarely throw a " swinging " punch. Quite a few Chinese styles may do that and also windmill blocks, which are excellent. Street fighters are aware of counter blocks and the elbow/knee cap factors, both offensive and defensive. Plus grabbing and throat eye strikes. Though not too many have mastered ground grappling moves. No rules in that game.
Latosa Escrima is a prime way to train. First learning with the rattans and than free handed. Large Filipino population in San Diego, so many places to learn the art. Viet Nam martial arts also, highly influenced by China's forms of fighting.
Might also suggest that a lot of those martial arts book are like BB'ing books. Take them for what you may thing they are worth. Good Luck.
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Yes read the book in the link states clearly why squats close bench and incline sit ups.
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...but everyone has an opinion and is ok.
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call me crazy... but i would not have been afraid of giving bruce lee a free shot...
what did he weigh? 160?
free shot to the face i mean (obviously a specific strike to the throat, eyes, groin, liver, solar plexus, etc would be dangerous if i wasn't defending myself)...
but with a 160lb as a stand up fighter he would not have underestimated me at given the notable weight difference
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call me crazy... but i would not have been afraid of giving bruce lee a free shot...
what did he weigh? 160?
free shot to the face i mean (obviously a specific strike to the throat, eyes, groin, liver, solar plexus, etc would be dangerous if i wasn't defending myself)...
but with a 160lb as a stand up fighter he would not have underestimated me at given the notable weight difference
At his physical peak, Bruce weighed 129 lbs. I believe he was about 30 or 31 at the time.
That is according to documentaries featuring interviews with James Coburn, Dan Inosanto, his widow Linda, and KAJ.
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At his physical peak, Bruce weighed 129 lbs. I believe he was about 30 or 31 at the time.
That is according to documentaries featuring interviews with James Coburn, Dan Inosanto, his widow Linda, and KAJ.
hmm... i was 130
when i was like 12...
once again... maybe i'm full of shit, but i think he'd break his hand on my face...
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hmm... i was 130
when i was like 12...
once again... maybe i'm full of shit, but i think he'd break his hand on my face...
There's a lot of believable accounts of Lee's toughness, but I'm sure, too, that a lot has been embellished, as is often the case with famous people who meet an "untimely demise" and become a bit glorified.
The footage of him at Ed Parker's Long Beach Internationals in '64 is usually cited as demonstrations of legitimate feats of strength and speed. Unfortunately, the only existing clip is less than ten minutes long, and really only depicts him doing his famous two-finger push-ups and 1-inch punch.
It would be nice to see some footage of him sparring or actually fighting.
Possible exaggerations aside, I believe he was a bad-ass.
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maybe... but i can throw my 150lb sand bag over 15 feet...
i could grab a 130lb man by his wrists or ankles and slam him around like a doll...
130lbs is infantile to me
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There's a lot of believable accounts of Lee's toughness, but I'm sure, too, that a lot has been embellished, as is often the case with famous people who meet an "untimely demise" and become a bit glorified.
The footage of him at Ed Parker's Long Beach Internationals in '64 is usually cited as demonstrations of legitimate feats of strength and speed. Unfortunately, the only existing clip is less than ten minutes long, and really only depicts him doing his famous two-finger push-ups and 1-inch punch.
It would be nice to see some footage of him sparring or actually fighting.
Possible exaggerations aside, I believe he was a bad-ass.
I agree and he was ahead of his time in his thinking.. his system of Jun Fan Gung Fu:
1:Kicking range
2:Hand range
3:Trapping/infighting range
4:Grappling and Ground fighting range
Later called Jeet Kune Do as a way for your personal entwiklung and not a "style". Ok sure you can be BIG as a Bear woo but it does not all boil down to size.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeet_Kune_Do
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Of course it is a good system for smaller guys like me who have fast hands and feet.. and i like the strong Wing Chun element in there too. Ground fighting is also very important and i have seen with my own eyes how a big guy was put in a strangle hold and was as helpless as a new born baby. This was in a real fight and the smaller guy was very proficient in Judo. I am sure you have a solid punch Wooo at the end of your Beefy arm(and believe me i am not a dreamer) but always expect the "unexpected".
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I threw shot in track. Difficult thing to do correctly. U need good form, tork, leg strength and explosive power. I didn't have any. :-\
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Of course it is a good system for smaller guys like me who have fast hands and feet.. and i like the strong Wing Chun element in there too. Ground fighting is also very important and i have seen with my own eyes how a big guy was put in a strangle hold and was as helpless as a new born baby. This was in a real fight and the smaller guy was very proficient in Judo. I am sure you have a solid punch Wooo at the end of your Beefy arm(and believe me i am not a dreamer) but always expect the "unexpected".
yeah... again, i may be full of shit here...
but i've been doing martial arts as an amateur and boxing since age 6...
i'd step into the rings against anyone without fear (even though i may lose)
think of me as a Roy Nelson without the mullet or gut or pale skin or..... well ok, i'm a white guy with a heck of a punch
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No Wooo your not full of shit...just being the Wooo Bear ... ;D
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No Wooo your not full of shit...just being the Wooo Bear ... ;D
HAHAHAHAHA...
no homo
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HAHAHAHAHA...
no homo
NO HOMO ;D
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I threw shot in track. Difficult thing to do correctly. U need good form, tork, leg strength and explosive power. I didn't have any. :-\
;D
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WOOO: That free shot of Bruce Lee's would probably be a heel of his hand into you nose. Being the much shorter man, Lee's upper angle would be almost perfect for breaking those nose (and surrounding area's) bones and driving them into the front of your brain. All resulting in internal bleeding of the brain, or an instant lobotomy. If not to the nose, then a under the chin blow (from Lee's better angle). Snapping the neck back, perhaps breaking the jaw pivot bones, overstress on the eye sockets, breaking/chipping teeth and if the tongue is not out of the way, cutting it badly...or off.
People forget that extreme power of the blunt force of the heel of the hand, always thinking closed fist. And you also save your knuckles that way. Try a quick and hard heel of the hand to the ribs sometime..should make a lasting point on anyone. Takes a certain amount of skill to use the heel correctly. Women are taught this stuff in some of the self defense classes (though most are BS teaching classes).
outby43 gives a great example of the form, tork, leg strength and explosive power of putting a shot. Which can also be used to describe a solid and powerful punch. Adding timing and quickness to both elements, to complete the process. Tork is not nearly talked about enough when it comes to fighting power. A punch will start from the ground up, in most cases. With the hips/lower back being a important element. Even turning the wrist, while striking a blow, can be important. Good Luck.
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So I bought a new shot put... (my old one is a 10lber, but it was getting light so i bought a 16lber (olympic weight)) and used it in my sunday explosive workout (30x 10 seconds sprints pushing my grand caravan down the street (wife steering) & 4x superset of 4 different shot put throws for 10 reps each)...
Not only is the shot put a great way to increase peak punching power it's fucking fun... nothing reduces stress like chucking something heavy... personally, I do this at Woodbine beach near Toronto on the sand beside lake ontario... makes for a nice sunday.
is anyone else trying crazy shit like this? i'm going back to the boxing club near my house to have my right hand tested again... between the bulgarian bag and the shot put it's getting explosive as hell
i was a shot putter in hs and college.
Another good exercise is the overhead toss. Hold the shot w both hands in front of you, squat down and explode overhead backwards overhead.
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WOOO: That free shot of Bruce Lee's would probably be a heel of his hand into you nose. Being the much shorter man, Lee's upper angle would be almost perfect for breaking those nose (and surrounding area's) bones and driving them into the front of your brain. All resulting in internal bleeding of the brain, or an instant lobotomy. If not to the nose, then a under the chin blow (from Lee's better angle). Snapping the neck back, perhaps breaking the jaw pivot bones, overstress on the eye sockets, breaking/chipping teeth and if the tongue is not out of the way, cutting it badly...or off.
People forget that extreme power of the blunt force of the heel of the hand, always thinking closed fist. And you also save your knuckles that way. Try a quick and hard heel of the hand to the ribs sometime..should make a lasting point on anyone. Takes a certain amount of skill to use the heel correctly. Women are taught this stuff in some of the self defense classes (though most are BS teaching classes).
outby43 gives a great example of the form, tork, leg strength and explosive power of putting a shot. Which can also be used to describe a solid and powerful punch. Adding timing and quickness to both elements, to complete the process. Tork is not nearly talked about enough when it comes to fighting power. A punch will start from the ground up, in most cases. With the hips/lower back being a important element. Even turning the wrist, while striking a blow, can be important. Good Luck.
perhaps... but you have to land the shot...
bruce lee looks more like a older version of van damme... just a movie pussy
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WOOO: (just a though here, not a dis) Either your underestimating Bruce Lee or over estimatimng your self.
And yes, Bruce Lee does look like an older version of Van Damme now..because Lee's been dead since 1973. Van Damme is returning to movies, after quite a long issue with drug abuse. An another health related issue.
Considering some of those super human feats, credited to select Asian masters, about their abilities and training methods; might relate that to BB'ing book/video's and how the Pro's are suppose to train. Both may hold a grain of truth or be absolute falsehoods..in either case, believe what you want to believe. Good Luck.
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Every art of combat is only as good as the man behind it. Well Bruce Lee was a very special martial artist who had a huge impact on millions of people. His methods and thinking were very much ahead of his times.. i also liked Ed Parker, American Kempo Karate. Also a very interesting man.
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Donny: Ed Parker, from people who knew him (stuntmen, gripes, etc), a very regular and nice guy. His version of Kenpo was simple and functional for most Americans. Open handed, but still used weapons in some of his classes. Had a dojo in Pasadena,Ca before he died.
My first try at Karate was his Kenpo system, than to Mas Oyama's shotokan (one of many versions) and finally Okinawan Te. Korean styles seem more popular today. Koreans and Japanese sensei's, from personal experience, can be a little more harsh (putting it mildly) with the more serious students. Koreans leading the pack. Probably learning to take punishment to give punishment..Asian and military ways, I guess. Never had a Chinese one. Filipino's teachers, pretty cool...just my view. Good Luck.
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Donny: Ed Parker, from people who knew him (stuntmen, gripes, etc), a very regular and nice guy. His version of Kenpo was simple and functional for most Americans. Open handed, but still used weapons in some of his classes. Had a dojo in Pasadena,Ca before he died.
My first try at Karate was his Kenpo system, than to Mas Oyama's shotokan (one of many versions) and finally Okinawan Te. Korean styles seem more popular today. Koreans and Japanese sensei's, from personal experience, can be a little more harsh (putting it mildly) with the more serious students. Koreans leading the pack. Probably learning to take punishment to give punishment..Asian and military ways, I guess. Never had a Chinese one. Filipino's teachers, pretty cool...just my view. Good Luck.
Oyama did learn Shotokan but later had difficulties with Funakoshis son Yoshitaka Funakoshi. He(Oyama) then found his own way "Kyoshinkia"..i do not like this art of Karate. I liked more Wado Ryu with itīs elements of Shindo yoshin Ryu Jui Jitsu and higher stances. I spoke to Suzuki Sensei on the phone some years ago(he lived in London). We spoke about the tai sabaki(body movements) of Wado Ryu. I have also a letter from him.
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Oyama did learn Shotokan but later had difficulties with Funakoshis son Yoshitaka Funakoshi. He(Oyama) then found his own way "Kyoshinkia"..i do not like this art of Karate. I liked more Wado Ryu with itīs elements of Shindo yoshin Ryu Jui Jitsu and higher stances. I spoke to Suzuki Sensei on the phone some years ago(he lived in London). We spoke about the tai sabaki(body movements) of Wado Ryu. I have also a letter from him.
I took Oyama karate when i was 16 y/o. Good stuff!
Made it you yellow before I did something else but it was bad ass.
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A good read...
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:)
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WOOO: (just a though here, not a dis) Either your underestimating Bruce Lee or over estimatimng your self.
maybe...
we'll never know
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There's a lot of believable accounts of Lee's toughness, but I'm sure, too, that a lot has been embellished, as is often the case with famous people who meet an "untimely demise" and become a bit glorified.
The footage of him at Ed Parker's Long Beach Internationals in '64 is usually cited as demonstrations of legitimate feats of strength and speed. Unfortunately, the only existing clip is less than ten minutes long, and really only depicts him doing his famous two-finger push-ups and 1-inch punch.
It would be nice to see some footage of him sparring or actually fighting.
Possible exaggerations aside, I believe he was a bad-ass.
it would be cool to have a footage like this.
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it would be cool to have a footage like this.
Yes.
Numerous A&E documentaries have featured about twenty-seconds of the film. I've come across the clips on Youtube as well. Usually, it's just brief snippets of the push-ups and 1-inch punch, respectively.
I can't remember if the biographical movie with Jason Scott Lee contained any of the clips or not. I distinctly remember them using some original footage from the Kung Fu series, and Ed Parker Jr. appeared as his dad, Ed Sr., but I haven't seen the movie in years.
If you can't find it on Youtube or daily motion, let me know. If I remember, the next time I come across it, I'll forward you a link.