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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: BikiniSlut on April 25, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
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I thought this was a good read. It obviously refers to a Christian God but imagine any God. I know I've been praying more than ever, and it all seems to be for nothing. I'm tired of praying to someone who isn't listening or doesn't seem to care.
It is common practice among Christians to pray for people who are sick or are in need. Suppose that a few Christians know a boy who has cancer. The disease is inoperable and untreatable in this case, so our Christian friends pray for the boy. A few weeks later, the boy dies. This is a familiar scenario which is often encountered in the creationist world. One can't help but wonder why the praying didn't work. Was the boy a sinner, and therefore deserved to die? Did his friends simply not pray hard enough? Probably not. The explanation that most Christians use is that it was not God's will for the boy to live. In other words, written in God's big book of how things are going to happen, Timmy is supposed to reach the end of the line at such and such date. At first glance, this seems to make sense. For whatever mysterious reason, it was the boy's time to go, and because of that, no amount of prayers could change it. Most Christians agree to this reasoning.
But let's back up a bit here. We said that no amount of prayers could change the outcome of the boy with cancer situation because it is God's will that the boy die. This actually says a lot more than you might think. This means that we can't change something that is in God's plan. If God wants the boy to die, then he is going to die. Doesn't this make praying pointless? Doesn't this mean that you can't change what God is going to do, so it doesn't matter if you pray or not? At this point of the argument, most Christians tell me that prayer convinces God to change his mind about his divine plan. Here, I would like to take a small detour to prove that God cannot change his mind, due to the fact that he is perfect. The reason is simply this: there is always a best choice in any situation. For someone to change their mind, they have to deem their new choice better than their old one. Suppose, for example, that God thought that one plus one equals three. God then changes his mind to thinking that one plus one equals two. This situation is impossible because for God to change his mind to the best choice (one plus one equals two), he must have previously had a worse choice. This math situation cannot happen because God must be wrong in the first place. For him to change to thinking that one plus one equals two, he must first think that one plus one equals something else, which is wrong. God is never wrong, remember? He always knows the best choice, because he is omniscient. God always selects the best choice from the start. As a result, God can never change his mind. Granted, sometimes the best choice is only slightly better than the other choice, but it doesn't matter. All questions have a best answer. It is impossible to calculate the best answer to a question for us because we must look at every single tiny effect on everything else, but for an omniscient god, this is no difficult task at all. God always makes the best choice, because he is never wrong. Every choice he makes is perfect -- there is no better choice. Now, let's get back to the original argument.
I made that point to show that God cannot change his mind. The relevance to the argument is that God cannot be convinced to make a different choice. So let's get this straight: if God's plan is set in place, and God's mind is set in place, then how can prayer change anything? There exist two kinds of situations: (1) someone prays for something that is not according to God's plan, and (2) someone prays for something that is according to God's plan. As we've just discussed, praying for something that is not according to his plan is pointless, because we can't change his mind about anything, and what God wants to do is already set in place. The second situation, where someone prays for something that is according to God's plan, is equally pointless. If something is according to God's plan prior to the prayer, then it is going to happen regardless of whether you pray for it or not. If God wants some kid with cancer to live, then praying for him is pointless because before you even kneel down in front of your bed or in your church, God has already decided that the boy will live. What's the point of praying for something that is going to happen anyway? It's like praying for the law of gravity. It's going to happen anyway, so why pray for it? In both of the situations, prayer is pointless.
Either your prayer is against God's will and therefore won't happen because you can't change his mind, or your prayer is according to God's will but doesn't make a difference because God's will would have been carried out anyway. Prayer is pointless. It's a waste of time.
-Dave
http://www.christianway.org/forums/Topic11926-17-1.aspx
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Well, research indicates that prayed-for outcomes (e.g., in medical circumstances) don't happen any more frequently than outcomes that aren't prayed-for, so prayer doesn't seem to be causally efficacious in that sense -- just what one would expect. But if the person(s) praying genuinely believe all the baloney, prayer can function to reinforce a web of beliefs and feelings of well-being/comfort derived from that web. So the activity can be causally efficacious in that sense. I can't think of any other pertinent senses to consider.
Are you still feeling out various forms of supernaturalism to derive emotional support from? You might come to realize the greatest well of support comes from within you, not by adopting this or that form of childish belief. But I'll leave that to you.
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IMO, praying is not pointless. It can bring feelings of peace and comfort and hope as well as closeness and fellowship w/God.
I do not think God changes His mind regarding His will. I recently heard that someone heard a speaker say that there are X number of prayers that need to be prayed to change Y (a specific situation) and then God will change it in that way, but I have no idea what the guy is basing that on and it doesn't seem scriptural.
I do believe that at times people pray more according to His will than others.
Maybe prayer can help "change" certain details in the way things go? Kind of like how we have free will, but God's ultimate plan will be accomplished?
BS, do you feel any presence of peace or comfort when you pray?
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But if the person(s) praying genuinely believe all the baloney, prayer can function to reinforce a web of beliefs and feelings of well-being/comfort derived from that web.
Also, the acknowledgment that we are not in total control (but an all-knowing, all-powerful Being is - Who has our best interests at heart) can also take a lot of pressure off and results in increased peaceful feelings. And that's no "bologna" ;D
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Dave's argument has a couple of problems:
(i) It isn't the case that because the child with cancer died, this was always God's will and prayer could not have effected a different outcome. When this assumption (and of course, that is all it is) is rejected, the Christian can say that God does listen to prayer in the sense of admitting prayers received into his decision making calculus on a given occasion. It may or may not affect His decision, given the circumstances. In the case of the child, then, prayers may have been considered, but God still decided that the child should die for mysterious reason R. Dave acknowledges this, but then falls into problem (ii).
I think that this is all consistent with omniscience because God can simply know in advance that in future circumstance C, received prayers will enter into His decision making calculus and effect a specific outcome that wouldn't have obtained without that input.
(ii) Dave falsely claims that "there is always a best choice in any situation." He needs this to be true because when it is, he can claim that in any given situation, God will always make the correct choice absent prayer, given his perfection (thus rendering prayer useless). But it isn't true: there are a variety of situations with no 'best' decision to be made relative to the interests of the decision maker. For example, there's no 'best' decision between receiving $100 for sure vs. flipping a coin such that heads gives you $200 and tails gives you 0. Similarly, there may be situations in God's Plan which have no 'best' decision in that the plan will move forward either way; these may be amenable to the input of prayer.
Alternatively, God may always make the best choice if He chooses, but still avoids doing so in order to give us some role in realizing the plan. In other words, prayer may affect outcomes because God wants us to have some input in the unfolding of events, even if the outcomes from such decisions are less than optimal.
Anyway, this has all been a huge waste of time because research demonstrates that prayer doesn't do anything to the world either way, but it has been interesting.
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It has not brought me any type of comfort yet. And if the out come is already pre determined, which I'm on the fence about, I see no point.
Ironically I prayed for a friend today to get a job he really really wanted and needs, and literally 5 minutes later he phoned me to tell me he didn't get it. :( I felt guilty even though I had nothing to feel guilty for. Talk about timing. :P
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I pray out of comfort. I pray for the health and happiness of my family and friends. Does it work? No, but it makes me feel good. Religion is about fulfilling selfish needs.
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I pray out of comfort. I pray for the health and happiness of my family and friends. Does it work? No, but it makes me feel good. Religion is about fulfilling selfish needs.
As selfish as it sounds that is what I would like out of prayer.
I actually get more comfort when I talk to my Teddy Bears, as silly as that sounds.
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Bikini, I am very happy to know that you are thinking about the issue of metaphysics. It is a heavy subject that people often avoid with vigilance. Because you are an admirer of mine I have become an admirer of yours, and I wish to influence your journey towards the light. :) Please take these few little anecdotes of mine and think them over a few times so that they stick with you. Even if you dont see any value in them right now, I think they will shed light on an even more enlightened perspective eventually. 8)
1) Prayer obviously does not work perfectly for everybody all the time. But that is not proof of its complete impotence. I think that when you pray for knowledge about God you can get aid in your quest for knowledge. Gods reasons for the nature of things, why he wanted to create the world, why he keeps his existence hidden, and what it feels like to be God himself are all questions that have led me to what I think are better understandings of life, the world, spirituality, and metaphysics. But only when I prayed for help and genuinely wantede the TRUTH did I start having new and better understandings. As for prayer helping to change things outside of personal understanding, I think its very limited in its effect on such things. I have experienced examples of prayer effecting other people, but through internal changes and not external reality. Whenever I am having a panic attack I text or call my best friend asking her to pray for me and I always know the second she starts to. My panic eases, my heart grows warm, and I know peace can be found. :)
2) Heaven on earth is a contradiction in terms. Heaven on earth would be boring, depressing, without value, and without appreciation. There would be no knowledge of right or wrong. There would be no love.
________________________ ________________________ ____________
You cant always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes, you might find..
YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED
:)
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Bikini, I am very happy to know that you are thinking about the issue of metaphysics. It is a heavy subject that people often avoid with vigilance. Because you are an admirer of mine I have become an admirer of yours, and I wish to influence your journey towards the light. :) Please take these few little anecdotes of mine and think them over a few times so that they stick with you. Even if you dont see any value in them right now, I think they will shed light on an even more enlightened perspective eventually. 8)
1) Prayer obviously does not work perfectly for everybody all the time. But that is not proof of its complete impotence. I think that when you pray for knowledge about God you can get aid in your quest for knowledge. Gods reasons for the nature of things, why he wanted to create the world, why he keeps his existence hidden, and what it feels like to be God himself are all questions that have led me to what I think are better understandings of life, the world, spirituality, and metaphysics. But only when I prayed for help and genuinely wantede the TRUTH did I start having new and better understandings. As for prayer helping to change things outside of personal understanding, I think its very limited in its effect on such things. I have experienced examples of prayer effecting other people, but through internal changes and not external reality. Whenever I am having a panic attack I text or call my best friend asking her to pray for me and I always know the second she starts to. My panic eases, my heart grows warm, and I know peace can be found. :)
2) Heaven on earth is a contradiction in terms. Heaven on earth would be boring, depressing, without value, and without appreciation. There would be no knowledge of right or wrong. There would be no love.
________________________ ________________________ ____________
You cant always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes, you might find..
YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED
:)
God would not approve you showing cock pics. God would also frown on your gay, anal massages. Dont be naive.
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Bikini, I am very happy to know that you are thinking about the issue of metaphysics. It is a heavy subject that people often avoid with vigilance. Because you are an admirer of mine I have become an admirer of yours, and I wish to influence your journey towards the light. :) Please take these few little anecdotes of mine and think them over a few times so that they stick with you. Even if you dont see any value in them right now, I think they will shed light on an even more enlightened perspective eventually. 8)
1) Prayer obviously does not work perfectly for everybody all the time. But that is not proof of its complete impotence. I think that when you pray for knowledge about God you can get aid in your quest for knowledge. Gods reasons for the nature of things, why he wanted to create the world, why he keeps his existence hidden, and what it feels like to be God himself are all questions that have led me to what I think are better understandings of life, the world, spirituality, and metaphysics. But only when I prayed for help and genuinely wantede the TRUTH did I start having new and better understandings. As for prayer helping to change things outside of personal understanding, I think its very limited in its effect on such things. I have experienced examples of prayer effecting other people, but through internal changes and not external reality. Whenever I am having a panic attack I text or call my best friend asking her to pray for me and I always know the second she starts to. My panic eases, my heart grows warm, and I know peace can be found. :)
2) Heaven on earth is a contradiction in terms. Heaven on earth would be boring, depressing, without value, and without appreciation. There would be no knowledge of right or wrong. There would be no love.
________________________ ________________________ ____________
You cant always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes, you might find..
YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED
:)
I like this perspective TBombz. It's different.
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God would not approve you showing cock pics. God would also frown on your gay, anal massages. Dont be naive.
The God that I can't figure out if I believe in or not, would not judge TBombz for that. In fact I don't even think he would care about such trivial things.
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The God that I can't figure out if I believe in or not, would not judge TBombz for that. In fact I don't even think he would care about such trivial things.
We share the same thoughts. I put no stock in the bible's version of god.
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God would not approve you showing cock pics. God would also frown on your gay, anal massages. Dont be naive.
God made me so that in my pure, natural, raw state i would be rockin out with my cock out, broseph mcfadden. dig it . 8)
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Asking the average Christian about prayer can be confusing. Yes he answers prayers if you ask about positive things like "Should I pray to god if I should take this job?" But when you ask why a child dies after the entire church prays for their healing you may get "Satan is the god of this world and operates within its realm, so God doesn't interfere"
Then the prayer request thing... Does god need a minimum number of prayers from different people before he acts on the prayer? That's always stumped me.
If you allow yes, no, maybe as options for answers, then a doorknob is just as helpful in answering prayers in my opinion and would hold its own agains a prayer off against any known god
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I thought this was a good read. It obviously refers to a Christian God but imagine any God. I know I've been praying more than ever, and it all seems to be for nothing. I'm tired of praying to someone who isn't listening or doesn't seem to care.
It is common practice among Christians to pray for people who are sick or are in need. Suppose that a few Christians know a boy who has cancer. The disease is inoperable and untreatable in this case, so our Christian friends pray for the boy. A few weeks later, the boy dies. This is a familiar scenario which is often encountered in the creationist world. One can't help but wonder why the praying didn't work. Was the boy a sinner, and therefore deserved to die? Did his friends simply not pray hard enough? Probably not. The explanation that most Christians use is that it was not God's will for the boy to live. In other words, written in God's big book of how things are going to happen, Timmy is supposed to reach the end of the line at such and such date. At first glance, this seems to make sense. For whatever mysterious reason, it was the boy's time to go, and because of that, no amount of prayers could change it. Most Christians agree to this reasoning.
But let's back up a bit here. We said that no amount of prayers could change the outcome of the boy with cancer situation because it is God's will that the boy die. This actually says a lot more than you might think. This means that we can't change something that is in God's plan. If God wants the boy to die, then he is going to die. Doesn't this make praying pointless? Doesn't this mean that you can't change what God is going to do, so it doesn't matter if you pray or not? At this point of the argument, most Christians tell me that prayer convinces God to change his mind about his divine plan. Here, I would like to take a small detour to prove that God cannot change his mind, due to the fact that he is perfect. The reason is simply this: there is always a best choice in any situation. For someone to change their mind, they have to deem their new choice better than their old one. Suppose, for example, that God thought that one plus one equals three. God then changes his mind to thinking that one plus one equals two. This situation is impossible because for God to change his mind to the best choice (one plus one equals two), he must have previously had a worse choice. This math situation cannot happen because God must be wrong in the first place. For him to change to thinking that one plus one equals two, he must first think that one plus one equals something else, which is wrong. God is never wrong, remember? He always knows the best choice, because he is omniscient. God always selects the best choice from the start. As a result, God can never change his mind. Granted, sometimes the best choice is only slightly better than the other choice, but it doesn't matter. All questions have a best answer. It is impossible to calculate the best answer to a question for us because we must look at every single tiny effect on everything else, but for an omniscient god, this is no difficult task at all. God always makes the best choice, because he is never wrong. Every choice he makes is perfect -- there is no better choice. Now, let's get back to the original argument.
I made that point to show that God cannot change his mind. The relevance to the argument is that God cannot be convinced to make a different choice. So let's get this straight: if God's plan is set in place, and God's mind is set in place, then how can prayer change anything? There exist two kinds of situations: (1) someone prays for something that is not according to God's plan, and (2) someone prays for something that is according to God's plan. As we've just discussed, praying for something that is not according to his plan is pointless, because we can't change his mind about anything, and what God wants to do is already set in place. The second situation, where someone prays for something that is according to God's plan, is equally pointless. If something is according to God's plan prior to the prayer, then it is going to happen regardless of whether you pray for it or not. If God wants some kid with cancer to live, then praying for him is pointless because before you even kneel down in front of your bed or in your church, God has already decided that the boy will live. What's the point of praying for something that is going to happen anyway? It's like praying for the law of gravity. It's going to happen anyway, so why pray for it? In both of the situations, prayer is pointless.
Either your prayer is against God's will and therefore won't happen because you can't change his mind, or your prayer is according to God's will but doesn't make a difference because God's will would have been carried out anyway. Prayer is pointless. It's a waste of time.
-Dave
http://www.christianway.org/forums/Topic11926-17-1.aspx
Hey BS....good read!
Dave’s comments presuppose that God has predetermined a path for our lives according to his will. Dave is correct.
As Dave concludes: “Either your prayer is against God's will and therefore won't happen because you can't change his mind, or your prayer is according to God's will but doesn't make a difference because God's will would have been carried out anyway. Prayer is pointless. It's a waste of time.”
Appears to be sewn up pretty neatly.
Dave also suggests that God’s perfection has predetermined the best possible outcome for our lives. Dave is correct again.
As Dave suggests our prayers are merely recommendations that are only valid if they agree with God’s preset choices because anything less than God’s preset choice is a step in the wrong direction.
Ultimately Dave blames God’s perfection and omniscience because he feels it invalidates the act of prayer rendering our prayers meaningless.
God is omniscient and has a will for each of our lives and chronologically that foreknowledge precedes our future choices, but the world he created takes into account our future choices and allows for his will and our will to be accomplished within the same perfect creation. Now certainly only God’s will for our lives and our will for our lives can only be fulfilled simultaneously if they agree, but still God’s will for our lives takes second fiddle to our own will for our lives if they don’t agree.
God desires that we desire his will for our lives, but he honors our choice to defy his predetermined will. In essence, just because God is omniscient and has a predetermined will for our lives doesn’t mean his will is pre-executed. We can easily defy his will for our lives. For example, Jesus Christ desires that we all come to accept him as our Lord and Savior, but I’m gonna guess that the atheists and agnostics on Getbig aren’t going to gives their lives to Christ again today. That said, God’s predetermined will for our lives still exists, but has been defied. As Dave stated, God’s mind isn’t going to change either, but that doesn’t mean his will for our lives is going to come to fruition ….we can prevent it.
So why pray?
The main reason I can think of to pray is that Jesus Christ told us to pray and later the apostle Paul affirmed that we should pray (without ceasing) according to that which was revealed to him by Jesus Christ.
A second reason to consider praying is that while Jesus Christ came as the incarnate Son of God on earth and assumed a limited human form that he prayed to God the Father for guidance and strength as an example of how we should seek him in our own lives. If prayer was appropriate for the Son of God then it’s appropriate for me…..God set the standard.
Another reason to pray is because believers are engaged in a personal relationship with the Almighty and relationships are two-way streets. How many successful relationships involve only one party engaged in communication with the other? None that I’ve ever known of. This is our opportunity as believers to consistently remain connected with our Lord and Savior and experience the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit (not the only way to feel the Holy Spirit's presence, but a powerful way).
A third reason to consider is that the act of prayer is not for God’s edification, it’s for ours (God doesn't need our prayers). Prayer is a means by which we as believers can strengthen our faith. Prayer is our opportunity to draw closer to God, to feel his presence via the Holy Spirit, to worship and to seek his will. As believers our will for our lives should always match God’s will for our lives. Almost every day I pray and I ask God that he reveal himself through me to others and that his will be done in my life. I pray that I am able to recognize his fingerprints and guidance along the way to ensure that he will is being accomplished and that I’m not a hindrance. As Dave already suggested, God’s will for our lives is perfect and anything less than that is a step in wrong direction.
A fourth reason to consider prayer is that despite the fact that God doesn’t change his mind about his will for our lives this doesn’t necessitate his inability to intervene supernaturally to right the course of our lives while remaining in complete harmony with his preset will for our lives…..he is God afterall. How does he accomplish this? Wish I could tell you LOL.
There are more reasons to pray that I'm not mentioning, but this is a first blush explanation.
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It's not pointless.
God was about to destroy Israel for worshipping the golden calf at Mount Sinai, but Moses interceded for them. God then said, "I will pardon them as you have requested." (Numbers 14:20)
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It's not pointless.
God was about to destroy Israel for worshipping the golden calf at Mount Sinai, but Moses interceded for them. God then said, "I will pardon them as you have requested." (Numbers 14:20)
Thank God he channged his mind!
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Thank God he channged his mind!
God "changing his mind" suggests that he gained new information that he didn't have previously and negates and contradicts his omniscience. God "changing his mind" based on Moses' intercession via prayer wasn't about God's edification, it was about Moses and the Israelites edification and the growing of their faith.
Moses came to the conscious decision to request that God show mercy on the Israelites.....exactly the type of attributes God wanted his beloved creation to display amongst themselves and to others. God's character is that of divine mercy, grace, love and justice. God repeatedly showed mercy towards his chosen people that screwed up over and over and over again....this instance is no different. God’s mind wasn’t changed, he was going to show mercy regardless.
The situation offered an opportunity for Moses (and the Israelites) to first grow their faith and exhibit mercy. Prayer is not needed by an infinite God, but the result of our prayers can help God’s finite creation develop their faith and learn to align themselves with the divine will of an infinite God. This is a “hindsight is 20/20” situation for Moses in which after the fact he can look back and realize, “God you were going to show mercy all along, but you wanted me to seize the opportunity and step up and request mercy be shown.” And that example would then permeate through the Israelites led by Moses.
I’ve come to similar revelations in my own life concerning growing my faith and later recognizing the will of God for my life….it changed me.
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Thank God he channged his mind!
LOL
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Is Praying To God Pointless?
No
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It's not pointless.
God was about to destroy Israel for worshipping the golden calf at Mount Sinai, but Moses interceded for them. God then said, "I will pardon them as you have requested." (Numbers 14:20)
God "changing his mind" suggests that he gained new information that he didn't have previously and negates and contradicts his omniscience. God "changing his mind" based on Moses' intercession via prayer wasn't about God's edification, it was about Moses and the Israelites edification and the growing of their faith.
Moses came to the conscious decision to request that God show mercy on the Israelites.....exactly the type of attributes God wanted his beloved creation to display amongst themselves and to others. God's character is that of divine mercy, grace, love and justice. God repeatedly showed mercy towards his chosen people that screwed up over and over and over again....this instance is no different. God’s mind wasn’t changed, he was going to show mercy regardless.
The situation offered an opportunity for Moses (and the Israelites) to first grow their faith and exhibit mercy. Prayer is not needed by an infinite God, but the result of our prayers can help God’s finite creation develop their faith and learn to align themselves with the divine will of an infinite God. This is a “hindsight is 20/20” situation for Moses in which after the fact he can look back and realize, “God you were going to show mercy all along, but you wanted me to seize the opportunity and step up and request mercy be shown.” And that example would then permeate through the Israelites led by Moses.
I’ve come to similar revelations in my own life concerning growing my faith and later recognizing the will of God for my life….it changed me.
Great posts here by Purge_WTF and by Man of Steel! ;D
They ain't lying.
2 Kings 20:1-6
New International Version (NIV)
1 In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to him and said, “This is what the Lord says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover.”
2 Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord,
3 “Remember, Lord, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
4 Before Isaiah had left the middle court, the word of the Lord came to him:
5 “Go back and tell Hezekiah, the ruler of my people, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of your father David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you. On the third day from now you will go up to the temple of the Lord.
6 I will add fifteen years to your life. And I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria. I will defend this city for my sake and for the sake of my servant David.’”
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Is Praying To God Pointless?
No
Hi Coach!
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Hi Coach!
???
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Prayer is nothing more than wishful thinking by the weak minded. Most prayers, shows a level of disrespect to the creative force responsible for life. You have already been given everything you need, no need to ask for more. As for a prayer of gratitude, no need, as the creative force already has everything they need. If you wish to show gratitude, just help out your fellow man.
Obviously those that pray all the time are suffering from some type of Obsessive Compulsive disorder. A repetitive behaviour that helps reduce anxiety, like nail biting.
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I pray daily! will never stop.
I pray for others especially.
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I pray daily! will never stop.
I pray for others especially.
In other words you have OCD and can't stand other people.
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In other words you have OCD and can't stand other people.
No they are your words.
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No they are your words.
Extensive research has shown time and time again that prayer simply doesn't work. But for reasons beyond me, the religious zealots keep praying each new study on the matter will lead to a different outcome.
So why do you pray all the time knowing it doesn't work. Isn't that a definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I imagine if I piss you off enough, you might pray for me too. ;D
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Extensive research has shown time and time again that prayer simply doesn't work. But for reasons beyond me, the religious zealots keep praying each new study on the matter will lead to a different outcome.
So why do you pray all the time knowing it doesn't work. Isn't that a definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I imagine if I piss you off enough, you might pray for me too. ;D
if you died i would still go the gym that same day, wouldnt affect me in the least.
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if you died i would still go the gym that same day, wouldnt affect me in the least.
How very Christian of you. Here is a good website for you that may help with your delusions.
http://godisimaginary.com/index.htm (http://godisimaginary.com/index.htm)
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[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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Extensive research has shown time and time again that prayer simply doesn't work. But for reasons beyond me, the religious zealots keep praying each new study on the matter will lead to a different outcome.
So why do you pray all the time knowing it doesn't work. Isn't that a definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I imagine if I piss you off enough, you might pray for me too. ;D
I'm sure the research is interesting to read about - perhaps you can post some of it or provide a link to it? My problem is all the answered prayer in my life over the last 3 years. On one hand there's all the extensive research that indicates prayer doesn't work and then there's the last 3 years of my life spent in prayer that indicates my prayers are absolutely answered and that prayer "works" (and I haven't mentioned the myriad number of answered prayers in other people's lives). So without me being disrespectful towards the researchers and their work (which admittedly I haven't read) it's hard for me to even consider it given how much prayer has already been answered in my own life. Still, I would like to read the research if it's available for review.
FYI ~ I pray for the members of the Getbig boards all the time.....I even pray for you E-Kul! ;)
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Prayer is nothing more than wishful thinking by the weak minded. Most prayers, shows a level of disrespect to the creative force responsible for life. You have already been given everything you need, no need to ask for more. As for a prayer of gratitude, no need, as the creative force already has everything they need. If you wish to show gratitude, just help out your fellow man.
Obviously those that pray all the time are suffering from some type of Obsessive Compulsive disorder. A repetitive behaviour that helps reduce anxiety, like nail biting.
The only reason you posted something so utterly ridiculous is to see if you can get a rise out of people. This post doesn't even make sense. It's embarrassing. Keep the bullshit at Gossip and Opinions and let the adults have an adult conversation please.
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The only reason you posted something so utterly ridiculous is to see if you can get a rise out of people. This post doesn't even make sense. It's embarrassing. Keep the bullshit at Gossip and Opinions and let the adults have an adult conversation please.
You know, I actually invite anyone to post on these boards and it's taken some time and conditioning to understand the ugliness some post about. Sure some things have to be censored and deleted since the boards belong to Ron. Still, I try and be a representative for Christ and act as the salt and light for the world so that others can clearly witness the contrast.
The great thing about ugliness is that it draws attention and more people come to read it, be entertained by it and even participate in it. Sure enough a thread with 5 posters can quickly become a posting audience of 25-50 posters and who knows how many unknown folks are reading but not posting. In the end the ugliness provides a tremendous opportunity to share the gospel and love of Christ with many, many others (5 can become 500 worldwide in a single thread)! I have no delusions of converting posters to Christ in single thread LOL....it's simply about planting a seed and providing a Christlike example for others to consider.
God bless!
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Yes, it is pointless in my opinion. But, have at it, just try and not interfere with my life while you do it.
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You know, I actually invite anyone to post on these boards and it's taken some time and conditioning to understand the ugliness some post about. Sure some things have to be censored and deleted since the boards belong to Ron. Still, I try and be a representative for Christ and act as the salt and light for the world so that others can clearly witness the contrast.
The great thing about ugliness is that it draws attention and more people come to read it, be entertained by it and even participate in it. Sure enough a thread with 5 posters can quickly become a posting audience of 25-50 posters and who knows how many unknown folks are reading but not posting. In the end the ugliness provides a tremendous opportunity to share the gospel and love of Christ with many, many others (5 can become 500 worldwide in a single thread)! I have no delusions of converting posters to Christ in single thread LOL....it's simply about planting a seed and providing a Christlike example for others to consider.
God bless!
My heart wants to believe, but my mind won't let me. There are far more questions then answers. Man Of Steel, I have already praised your dedication to Christianity. I just can't put "you're faith" over anyone elses in this world. There is a reason why multiple religions exist.
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The only reason you posted something so utterly ridiculous is to see if you can get a rise out of people. This post doesn't even make sense. It's embarrassing. Keep the bullshit at Gossip and Opinions and let the adults have an adult conversation please.
Are you kidding me, if people get upset over this, that is their problem. Now even if their was a God, and even if prayer worked I believe prayers that ask for something are as disrespectful as me feeding a hungry man and then he says it wasn't good enough, he would have preferred I gave him something better, more than what he received. Same with praying to a creative force for something, you have already been given everything you want and need to live a good life, and yet you can't help yourself, you just have to ask for more, you're greediness just gets the better of you. I want this, I want that, do this for me, do that for me. This is why the are called God Botherers, stop bothering him and be grateful for what you have, leave him alone and stop disrespecting him by asking for more when he already provided you with everything you need.
The problem is, you live in some ridiculous new age bubble, unable to see outside of it. Not everybody believes as you do, trying to be nice and kind and not offending people, that's a sure fire way to never know yourself. Their are areas of knowledge and wisdom that you're shut down mind couldn't even begin to comprehend. We get it, you're experiencing existential angst that your life's learning hasn't prepared you for and now you are looking for an easy answer. Wouldn't it be just wonderful if all we needed to do was just simply believe in an imaginary force and ask it for guidance.
Prayer simply doesn't work, this is verifiable scientific fact. So while you think you are an adult having an adult conversation, you are merely deluded talking nonsense amongst other deluded people. It is the equivalent of discussing what Santa Claus will bring everyone this year as if it where really going to happen.
The reason my post/s don't make sense to you because you suffer from a seriously low intellect, and their is no amount of prayer that can fix that. Unlike you, I don't believe in being a massive hypocrite or liar just to please other people so as to be liked by them. What I think of myself, being honest and maintaining my own integrity is far more important than the opinion of deluded individuals.
You asked the question Is Praying To God Pointless? I answered it. YES IT IS, it is delusional. Hope this helps.
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You know, I actually invite anyone to post on these boards and it's taken some time and conditioning to understand the ugliness some post about. Sure some things have to be censored and deleted since the boards belong to Ron. Still, I try and be a representative for Christ and act as the salt and light for the world so that others can clearly witness the contrast.
The great thing about ugliness is that it draws attention and more people come to read it, be entertained by it and even participate in it. Sure enough a thread with 5 posters can quickly become a posting audience of 25-50 posters and who knows how many unknown folks are reading but not posting. In the end the ugliness provides a tremendous opportunity to share the gospel and love of Christ with many, many others (5 can become 500 worldwide in a single thread)! I have no delusions of converting posters to Christ in single thread LOL....it's simply about planting a seed and providing a Christlike example for others to consider.
God bless!
Man of Steel, you are one of the few religious people on here that I respect. Your tolerance, intellect and open mindedness shine through. But I also believe you would be this type of person without religion, I know you will probably argue against that. And in terms of others posting what you call ugliness, I don't think it's just a matter of their is "No Such Thing As Bad Publicity" and that you are able to put a positive spin on it because it draws more people to the message of Christ.
Opposing views are crucially important, no matter how hateful or spiteful. Without them people run the risk of closing their minds, this is how propaganda works, propaganda is always one sided. Take North Korea for example, all their media is state controlled, radio television etc. They get told what to think, what to believe and what to do from the time they are born. They have little to no access to alternative information. They literally have no idea that they are brainwashed and that their supreme leader isn't divine and has never performed miracles. Without opposing information, people become dangerously brainwashed, and when confronted with reality can literally meltdown.
And so it goes with those who oppose religion, imagine you had an adult friend who still believed in the myth of Santa Claus, not only believed but was convinced of it, and anybody who tried to convince him otherwise was simply dismissed as a sinful santatheist. Would you gently try and offer him evidence refuting it and relieve him of his delusions or would you simply let him keep his delusion as it seems to make him happy and doesn't harm anyone. I imagine a lot of people would simply let him be and write him off as crazy. And so it goes with religion and god, these are similar delusions, but far more harmful in my opinion and this is why people oppose it, because they aren't harmless delusions like Santa, but very dangerous ones.
By banning so called haters and those who post ugliness you would be doing yourself a dis-service. Not because you lose the potential for others to see those carrying Christ's message, but because you would lose the chance to sharpen your mind and increase your wisdom. I personally find the majority of religious thought and belief hateful and ugly, and have learned to tolerate it. I would never consider removing them as they are the greatest proof we have of how delusional thinking affects people and how dangerous it is. In your case you are like the happy drunk, your delusions seem to be of some benefit to you and of little harm, unfortunately the majority of religious people aren't like you.
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These last few posts give humanity a ray of hope. ;)
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My heart wants to believe, but my mind won't let me. There are far more questions then answers. Man Of Steel, I have already praised your dedication to Christianity. I just can't put "you're faith" over anyone elses in this world. There is a reason why multiple religions exist.
How dare your life not be transformed by my words LOL!!! ;D Seriously, I understand having reservations and I know what it feels like to have your heart say one thing and your brain say another. I appreciate your kind remarks and I hope that someday in the future you'll continue to consider letting God work in your life. I don't have all the answers, but if I can be of any help in that regard let me know.
Hey, if God can change a gorgeous, brilliant, muscly, sexy, charming rock of a man like me then he can work in your life too!!
God bless!
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Man of Steel is a cool dude... ;)
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Man of Steel is a cool dude... ;)
You and I need to go do some shoulder presses and then enjoy a protein shake.....one glass, two straws.
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You and I need to go do some shoulder presses and then enjoy a protein shake.....one glass, two straws.
uh....ummm...well... :-[
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You and I need to go do some shoulder presses and then enjoy a protein shake.....one glass, two straws.
LOL...MOS is not only a good man, but he also has a good sense of humor. To top it off, dude's made of steel. ;D
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God answers every single prayer from every single person who prays regardless of faith, gender, national origin or sexual preference - what you need to understand is sometimes the answer is no. Oh, and by the way... God allows bad things to happen to good people so they will decide to run to God or from God. He gave us free will and it is our decision to run to God in times of crisis or from him. And in those times of crisis our decisions will help to decide where we go for eternity... heaven with God or hell without. Now this is where you make your own decision now that you have been given the knowledge.
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I don't only pray when I want something though. There is not always a no or yes to be had. However I never feel like he is listening to my prayers. It would be nice if I had a sign he was. I just don't feel it though.
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God answers every single prayer from every single person who prays regardless of faith, gender, national origin or sexual preference - what you need to understand is sometimes the answer is no. Oh, and by the way... God allows bad things to happen to good people so they will decide to run to God or from God. He gave us free will and it is our decision to run to God in times of crisis or from him. And in those times of crisis our decisions will help to decide where we go for eternity... heaven with God or hell without. Now this is where you make your own decision now that you have been given the knowledge.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-answers-prayers-of-paralyzed-little-boy,475/
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I don't only pray when I want something though. There is not always a no or yes to be had. However I never feel like he is listening to my prayers. It would be nice if I had a sign he was. I just don't feel it though.
that's a you problem.
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I don't only pray when I want something though. There is not always a no or yes to be had. However I never feel like he is listening to my prayers. It would be nice if I had a sign he was. I just don't feel it though.
I used to feel a lot like this when I prayed.
"What's the point?"
"Does God care?"
"I don't feel anything."
"Why bother?"
All the normal (and valid) feelings people feel about prayer. What made the difference for my prayer life and ultimately my faith is when I truly surrendered myself to God and simply made his will the priority for my life.... it made the absolute difference. I truly seek to have others recognize Jesus Christ in me in all that I do.
From that point the Holy Spirit filled my soul and I've never been the same. Doubts of the past have been resolved and I now have the privilege of feeling the Lord's presence during my prayers, in moments of worship and even at times when I post on Getbig. I make the Lord the center of my life and his presence fills me always. Certainly there are moments when I feel his presence much stronger than others, but I know always that he's with me and that's he in control.
If you truly desire to have God lead your life and you're willing to humble and surrender to his will for your life I believe his presence will be made completely evident and tangible in your life during those precious,sincere moments of prayer.
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God answers every single prayer from every single person who prays regardless of faith, gender, national origin or sexual preference - what you need to understand is sometimes the answer is no. Oh, and by the way... God allows bad things to happen to good people so they will decide to run to God or from God. He gave us free will and it is our decision to run to God in times of crisis or from him. And in those times of crisis our decisions will help to decide where we go for eternity... heaven with God or hell without. Now this is where you make your own decision now that you have been given the knowledge.
^^^ This is a pretty fucked up post.
So if I pray for my child's baseball team to win and you pray for your child who is on the opposing team to win, whose prayer does God answer and why?
And God allows bad things to happen to people so they will run to him. What is GOD crazy? Kind of like beating someone up so they will love you, so essentially it's like a battered wife syndrome, the more he punishes and beats us the less free will we have and the more we come to depend on the abuser.
And in times of crisis if we ignore GOD we will be punished by being sent to HELL!
How on earth can anyone worship a GOD like this, I know criminals who are better than the GOD you describe. The God most people describe sounds HELLISH to me. No wonder so many people bargain with the DEVIL.
One famous study concluded that not only did Intercessory prayer not work, the patients in the group certain of receiving intercessory prayer actually had MORE complications than those not being prayed for. The distant intercessors prayed for: a "successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16569567 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16569567)
Prayer doesn't work. here is some more interesting views on the matter.
http://godisimaginary.com/i1.htm (http://godisimaginary.com/i1.htm)
And here is the ultimate proof prayer doesn't work in a 5 second youtube clip. ;D
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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So if I pray for my child's baseball team to win and you pray for your child who is on the opposing team to win, whose prayer does God answer and why?
the answer to both of us would be no. god doesn't care about baseball games. the team that made the plays to win would win.
And God allows bad things to happen to people so they will run to him. What is GOD crazy? Kind of like beating someone up so they will love you, so essentially it's like a battered wife syndrome, the more he punishes and beats us the less free will we have and the more we come to depend on the abuser.
that's they twisted slant satan would put on it, sure sounds like he's got your ear.
And in times of crisis if we ignore GOD we will be punished by being sent to HELL!
it sure doesn't help us get into heaven silly.
How on earth can anyone worship a GOD like this, I know criminals who are better than the GOD you describe. The God most people describe sounds HELLISH to me. No wonder so many people bargain with the DEVIL.
earth is hell silly.
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So if I pray for my child's baseball team to win and you pray for your child who is on the opposing team to win, whose prayer does God answer and why?
the answer to both of us would be no. god doesn't care about baseball games. the team that made the plays to win would win.
And God allows bad things to happen to people so they will run to him. What is GOD crazy? Kind of like beating someone up so they will love you, so essentially it's like a battered wife syndrome, the more he punishes and beats us the less free will we have and the more we come to depend on the abuser.
that's they twisted slant satan would put on it, sure sounds like he's got your ear.
And in times of crisis if we ignore GOD we will be punished by being sent to HELL!
it sure doesn't help us get into heaven silly.
How on earth can anyone worship a GOD like this, I know criminals who are better than the GOD you describe. The God most people describe sounds HELLISH to me. No wonder so many people bargain with the DEVIL.
earth is hell silly.
So what does GOD care about if he doesn't care about children winning baseball games? What prayers are acceptable too him? If I pray to get a job to save my house and family from poverty and you also do the same. whose prayer does he answer and why? Does God care about children not being in poverty? For prayer to work means God must play favourites.
I didn't put any slant on it, you described GOD in the same vain as a wife beater, GOD punishes someone so they will have little choice but to run to him.
And I don't believe in GOD or Satan, those are your beliefs. You saying that Satan has a hold on me is the same as a child telling you that Santa Claus isn't going to bring you presents this year.
You God botherers live in your own little dream world. It is very comical to watch from a rational outsiders perspective, but it is also kind of sad.
And if earth is Hell, what am I worried about. I like Earth, so if this is Hell, bring it on.
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Man of Steel, you are one of the few religious people on here that I respect. Your tolerance, intellect and open mindedness shine through. But I also believe you would be this type of person without religion, I know you will probably argue against that. And in terms of others posting what you call ugliness, I don't think it's just a matter of their is "No Such Thing As Bad Publicity" and that you are able to put a positive spin on it because it draws more people to the message of Christ.
Opposing views are crucially important, no matter how hateful or spiteful. Without them people run the risk of closing their minds, this is how propaganda works, propaganda is always one sided. Take North Korea for example, all their media is state controlled, radio television etc. They get told what to think, what to believe and what to do from the time they are born. They have little to no access to alternative information. They literally have no idea that they are brainwashed and that their supreme leader isn't divine and has never performed miracles. Without opposing information, people become dangerously brainwashed, and when confronted with reality can literally meltdown.
And so it goes with those who oppose religion, imagine you had an adult friend who still believed in the myth of Santa Claus, not only believed but was convinced of it, and anybody who tried to convince him otherwise was simply dismissed as a sinful santatheist. Would you gently try and offer him evidence refuting it and relieve him of his delusions or would you simply let him keep his delusion as it seems to make him happy and doesn't harm anyone. I imagine a lot of people would simply let him be and write him off as crazy. And so it goes with religion and god, these are similar delusions, but far more harmful in my opinion and this is why people oppose it, because they aren't harmless delusions like Santa, but very dangerous ones.
By banning so called haters and those who post ugliness you would be doing yourself a dis-service. Not because you lose the potential for others to see those carrying Christ's message, but because you would lose the chance to sharpen your mind and increase your wisdom. I personally find the majority of religious thought and belief hateful and ugly, and have learned to tolerate it. I would never consider removing them as they are the greatest proof we have of how delusional thinking affects people and how dangerous it is. In your case you are like the happy drunk, your delusions seem to be of some benefit to you and of little harm, unfortunately the majority of religious people aren't like you.
Sorry for the long reply…….meltdown!!!
First off, I don’t mean to define those that disagree with me as “ugliness”. I used that term based on the context of the previous posts. I don’t find atheists, agnostics or those of differing faiths to be “ugly”.
I totally agree that opposing views are vitally important in a dialogue and I think both sides of the argument should be evaluated if doubt lingers one way or the other. If you have confidence in a particular direction based upon an honest evaluation of both sides of the argument then make your choice and live it out. Although, from a perspective of “religion”, I find that the religious evaluation is purely clinical or textbook in nature and it demands a level of evaluation that goes beyond any attempts to recreate the experience in a laboratory or endeavors to “bottle God in a beaker” or eliminate him via “test tube and centrifuge”. It requires a genuine sense of spiritual proactivity or at the very least a willingness to “try out God” on his terms. That’s the crux of the matter and ironically the most fully neglected. The proof of God’s love, grace, mercy, justice and salvation is within everyone’s grasp any minute of everyday if one truly desires to experience it. Still, as we all know, we’re all fully capable of reasoning away or providing full justification for dismissing the opportunity. Of course, this begs the question for nonbeliever (directed at the theist): “Have you evaluated others religions?” My answer is yes. Within my own spiritual walk I’ve evaluated Hinduism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Judaism, Christianity and now Islam. For me it was only Jesus Christ that validated the reality of who is yesterday, today and forever.
You know E, you are correct that before Jesus Christ changed me I wasn’t a bad person or filled with considerable hate towards anyone; although, I certainly wasn’t happy, I was rarely satisfied and I was prone to anxiety attacks and bouts of depression. Ultimately I desired to do the right things, but yet my heart was often filled with greed, envy and lust and my interactions with family, friends and coworkers was lackluster at best. It was how I processed the stress of day-to-day work and family responsibilities that was so drastically different from today. Jealousy towards friends and coworkers abounded and I was consumed with material possessions. I thought nothing about Christ and when I did engage in prayer it was about the trivial and superficial most often…..eventually my prayers stopped altogether. I’d regularly engage in stupid fighting with my wife and best friends and family (and 90% of the time I’d pick the fight LOL), but I justified it logically……I was right and everyone around me was wrong. I had an answer for everything even though I really didn’t know squat (bb related). Then for a period of years I struggled with the feeling of, “Do you really believe all this God crap?” I certainly wouldn’t have been mistaken for a Godly person…the words that came out of my mouth, my general temperament and my relationships with others only revealed a jealous, bitter, angry, depressed person. Then after I got hurt (as you know), that’s when times got really dark…..desperately dark……suicidal tendencies dark.
Today the man of the past is no more. The change Jesus Christ made in my life has transformed me through and through. I’m a genuinely happy person today….I smile and hum (like a goof) virtually everywhere I go…..I literally have a song in my heart now. The days of darkness are over. The jealousy and greed that consumed me is a thing of the past now….I yearn for what God has already blessed me with and I thank him daily for his many, many blessings both big and small but equally great! Today, as a true believer in Christ, the Holy Spirit fills my soul from top to bottom and I want to share Christ with others because my desire for others to know Christ literally overflows from within me. I don’t wanna ram it down anyone’s throat, but I want to share it with people honestly and respectfully, live out my faith and hope that others recognize Jesus Christ in me each and every day. My work and family responsibilities are at least equally (if not more) challenging today than they were in the past, but I now process everything differently…..there’s a genuine sense of joy within me. I don’t really have work stress anymore. Sure I face challenges and difficult assignments, but they don’t consume me….I just tackle them and 9 times outta 10 I’m pretty successful (wasn’t like that before). Everything I do now I attempt to do in accordance with the Lord’s will for my life….I pray about that and meditate on that idea privately as well. Still, I give all praise and glory to God because the change is about him and has nothing to do with me. Today I can feel the presence of Holy Spirit almost daily…there’s nothing like it. My personal change was so amazing to me because it literally happened in almost an instant. When I surrendered to God I literally felt weight lift and the Holy Spirit enveloped me…..it was incredible. Since that time I’m trying to grow my faith and mature as a believer and I have a long road ahead…..I’ll work towards it for the rest of my life.
To conclude my post I thought I would share a few CCM/gospel song lyrics that really sum up my journey:
“Changed”:
I came up out of the water
Raise my hands up to the Father
Gave it all to Him that day
Felt a new wind kiss my face
Walked away, eyes wide open
Could finally see where I was goin'
It didn’t matter where I been
I’m not the same man I was then.
I got off track, I made mistakes
Back slid my way into that place where souls get lost
Lines get crossed
And the pain won’t go away
I hit my knees, now here I stand
There I was, now here I am
Here I am
Changed
I got a lot of “hey I’m sorry's”
The things I’ve done, man that was not me
I wish that I could take it all back
I just want to tell 'em that
Tell 'em that
I got off track, I made mistakes
Back slid my way into that place where souls get lost
Lines get crossed
And the pain won’t go away
I hit my knees, now here I stand
There I was, now here I am
Here I am
I’ve changed for the better
More smiles, less bitter
I even started to forgive myself
I hit my knees, I’m here, I stand
There I was, now here I am
Here I am, here I am
I'm changed
Yes, I am
I’m changed for the better
Thank God, I'm changed.
“Through the Fire”:
So many times I've questioned certain circumstances
Things I could not understand
Many times in trials, weakness blurs my vision
Then my frustration gets so out of hand
It's then I am reminded I've never been forsaken
I've never had to stand the test alone
As I look at all the victories the spirit rises up in me
And it's through the fire my weakness is made strong
He never promised that the cross would not get heavy
And the hill would not be hard to climb
He never offered our victories without fighting
But he said help would always come in time
Just remember when you're standing in the valley of decision
And the adversary says give in
Just hold on, our Lord will show up
And he will take you through the fire again
I know within myself that I would surely perish
But if I trust the hand of God, He'll shield the flames again
“Glorious Freedom”:
Once I was bound by sin’s galling fetters,
Chained like a slave, I struggled in vain;
But I received a glorious freedom,
When Jesus broke my fetters in twain.
Glorious freedom, wonderful freedom,
No more in chains of sin I repine!
Jesus the glorious Emancipator,
Now and forever He shall be mine.
Freedom from all the carnal affections,
Freedom from envy, hatred and strife;
Freedom from vain and worldly ambitions,
Freedom from all that saddened my life.
Freedom from pride and all sinful follies,
Freedom from love and glitter of gold;
Freedom from evil, temper, and anger,
Glorious freedom, rapture untold.
Freedom from fear with all of its torments,
Freedom from care with all of its pain;
Freedom in Christ, my blessed Redeemer,
He who has rent my fetters in twain.
Have a good evening!!
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Also, the acknowledgment that we are not in total control (but an all-knowing, all-powerful Being is - Who has our best interests at heart) can also take a lot of pressure off and results in increased peaceful feelings. And that's no "bologna" ;D
Yes... "acknowledging" that you have no responsibilities and that what you do doesn't matter because someone else, who has your best interests at heart, is in charge and everything will be OK will result in increased peaceful feelings. Of course, so can pretending (that was the word you really meant to use, wasn't it?) to be an billionaire ex-astronaut President who volunteers at the local fire department, maintains 8% year around without gear and lives the life of James Bond.
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Sorry for the long reply…….meltdown!!!
First off, I don’t mean to define those that disagree with me as “ugliness”. I used that term based on the context of the previous posts. I don’t find atheists, agnostics or those of differing faiths to be “ugly”.
I totally agree that opposing views are vitally important in a dialogue and I think both sides of the argument should be evaluated if doubt lingers one way or the other. If you have confidence in a particular direction based upon an honest evaluation of both sides of the argument then make your choice and live it out. Although, from a perspective of “religion”, I find that the religious evaluation is purely clinical or textbook in nature and it demands a level of evaluation that goes beyond any attempts to recreate the experience in a laboratory or endeavors to “bottle God in a beaker” or eliminate him via “test tube and centrifuge”. It requires a genuine sense of spiritual proactivity or at the very least a willingness to “try out God” on his terms. That’s the crux of the matter and ironically the most fully neglected. The proof of God’s love, grace, mercy, justice and salvation is within everyone’s grasp any minute of everyday if one truly desires to experience it. Still, as we all know, we’re all fully capable of reasoning away or providing full justification for dismissing the opportunity. Of course, this begs the question for nonbeliever (directed at the theist): “Have you evaluated others religions?” My answer is yes. Within my own spiritual walk I’ve evaluated Hinduism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Judaism, Christianity and now Islam. For me it was only Jesus Christ that validated the reality of who is yesterday, today and forever.
You know E, you are correct that before Jesus Christ changed me I wasn’t a bad person or filled with considerable hate towards anyone; although, I certainly wasn’t happy, I was rarely satisfied and I was prone to anxiety attacks and bouts of depression. Ultimately I desired to do the right things, but yet my heart was often filled with greed, envy and lust and my interactions with family, friends and coworkers was lackluster at best. It was how I processed the stress of day-to-day work and family responsibilities that was so drastically different from today. Jealousy towards friends and coworkers abounded and I was consumed with material possessions. I thought nothing about Christ and when I did engage in prayer it was about the trivial and superficial most often…..eventually my prayers stopped altogether. I’d regularly engage in stupid fighting with my wife and best friends and family (and 90% of the time I’d pick the fight LOL), but I justified it logically……I was right and everyone around me was wrong. I had an answer for everything even though I really didn’t know squat (bb related). Then for a period of years I struggled with the feeling of, “Do you really believe all this God crap?” I certainly wouldn’t have been mistaken for a Godly person…the words that came out of my mouth, my general temperament and my relationships with others only revealed a jealous, bitter, angry, depressed person. Then after I got hurt (as you know), that’s when times got really dark…..desperately dark……suicidal tendencies dark.
Today the man of the past is no more. The change Jesus Christ made in my life has transformed me through and through. I’m a genuinely happy person today….I smile and hum (like a goof) virtually everywhere I go…..I literally have a song in my heart now. The days of darkness are over. The jealousy and greed that consumed me is a thing of the past now….I yearn for what God has already blessed me with and I thank him daily for his many, many blessings both big and small but equally great! Today, as a true believer in Christ, the Holy Spirit fills my soul from top to bottom and I want to share Christ with others because my desire for others to know Christ literally overflows from within me. I don’t wanna ram it down anyone’s throat, but I want to share it with people honestly and respectfully, live out my faith and hope that others recognize Jesus Christ in me each and every day. My work and family responsibilities are at least equally (if not more) challenging today than they were in the past, but I now process everything differently…..there’s a genuine sense of joy within me. I don’t really have work stress anymore. Sure I face challenges and difficult assignments, but they don’t consume me….I just tackle them and 9 times outta 10 I’m pretty successful (wasn’t like that before). Everything I do now I attempt to do in accordance with the Lord’s will for my life….I pray about that and meditate on that idea privately as well. Still, I give all praise and glory to God because the change is about him and has nothing to do with me. Today I can feel the presence of Holy Spirit almost daily…there’s nothing like it. My personal change was so amazing to me because it literally happened in almost an instant. When I surrendered to God I literally felt weight lift and the Holy Spirit enveloped me…..it was incredible. Since that time I’m trying to grow my faith and mature as a believer and I have a long road ahead…..I’ll work towards it for the rest of my life.
To conclude my post I thought I would share a few CCM/gospel song lyrics that really sum up my journey:
“Changed”:
I came up out of the water
Raise my hands up to the Father
Gave it all to Him that day
Felt a new wind kiss my face
Walked away, eyes wide open
Could finally see where I was goin'
It didn’t matter where I been
I’m not the same man I was then.
I got off track, I made mistakes
Back slid my way into that place where souls get lost
Lines get crossed
And the pain won’t go away
I hit my knees, now here I stand
There I was, now here I am
Here I am
Changed
I got a lot of “hey I’m sorry's”
The things I’ve done, man that was not me
I wish that I could take it all back
I just want to tell 'em that
Tell 'em that
I got off track, I made mistakes
Back slid my way into that place where souls get lost
Lines get crossed
And the pain won’t go away
I hit my knees, now here I stand
There I was, now here I am
Here I am
I’ve changed for the better
More smiles, less bitter
I even started to forgive myself
I hit my knees, I’m here, I stand
There I was, now here I am
Here I am, here I am
I'm changed
Yes, I am
I’m changed for the better
Thank God, I'm changed.
“Through the Fire”:
So many times I've questioned certain circumstances
Things I could not understand
Many times in trials, weakness blurs my vision
Then my frustration gets so out of hand
It's then I am reminded I've never been forsaken
I've never had to stand the test alone
As I look at all the victories the spirit rises up in me
And it's through the fire my weakness is made strong
He never promised that the cross would not get heavy
And the hill would not be hard to climb
He never offered our victories without fighting
But he said help would always come in time
Just remember when you're standing in the valley of decision
And the adversary says give in
Just hold on, our Lord will show up
And he will take you through the fire again
I know within myself that I would surely perish
But if I trust the hand of God, He'll shield the flames again
“Glorious Freedom”:
Once I was bound by sin’s galling fetters,
Chained like a slave, I struggled in vain;
But I received a glorious freedom,
When Jesus broke my fetters in twain.
Glorious freedom, wonderful freedom,
No more in chains of sin I repine!
Jesus the glorious Emancipator,
Now and forever He shall be mine.
Freedom from all the carnal affections,
Freedom from envy, hatred and strife;
Freedom from vain and worldly ambitions,
Freedom from all that saddened my life.
Freedom from pride and all sinful follies,
Freedom from love and glitter of gold;
Freedom from evil, temper, and anger,
Glorious freedom, rapture untold.
Freedom from fear with all of its torments,
Freedom from care with all of its pain;
Freedom in Christ, my blessed Redeemer,
He who has rent my fetters in twain.
Have a good evening!!
Meltdown of the year candidate.
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Meltdown of the year candidate.
LOL....exactly!
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pretending (that was the word you really meant to use, wasn't it?)
No
an billionaire ex-astronaut President who volunteers at the local fire department, maintains 8% year around without gear and lives the life of James Bond.
You know Bill Brasky?
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No
Funny... that word would have made a lot more sense.
Praying is another of those vestigial "organs" that we will end up shedding. As if reciting words out into nothingness could alter nature or change facts... "Please God" won't change a diagnosis. It won't bring back a dead loved one. It won't do anything at all.
What's even funnier is that praying is, by and large, useless even if there is a deity listening. Do you reallybelieve that the Christian God, assuming argue do that he exists, is likely to grant a prayer that goes against his "plan" because he gets so touched and moved by the prayer itself? The answer, of course, is no. So praying serves what purpose? Either what you ask for was going to be granted prayer or no prayer, or it won't, prayer or no prayer. So what use is prayer?
As I said, if it makes you feel better to pray, good for you. I don't presume to tell others what to do and what not to do. But I can judge them based on their actions.
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God does not save you from a potential, horrible death. Prayers are meant to ease your nightly sleep. God has 6 billion friends on Facebook. He will not respond.
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As I said, if it makes you feel better to pray, good for you.
Thanks avxo!
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Thanks avxo!
You're welcome.
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You're welcome.
Pussy.
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I'm from Oklahoma. It is going through a drought and some friends on facebook were posting scripture and praying for rain. The rain came along with an EF-5 tornado that devestated the town of Moore. Then the prayers changed to "Pray for the victims" etc etc. I was listening to a radio interview of some residents and one of them said "I prayed god would save our home, and when that didn't happen I just prayed he will see us through this".. and I was struck by how the person was so blindly faithful when they don't realize what they are saying.. 1st, if God ignored your prayer to save your house, why do you think he will listen to your next one?
How many people were praying that the tornado wouldn't hit? How hard would it be for a god to keep the tornado in the fields where there is no population? Then that leads down the path of "Why would a god create a world that has tornados, earthquakes and hurricanes?
Anyhow, ...couple of weeks ago it rained for a few hours and FB was full of people thanking the lord.. I notice it is noticeably empty of anyone holding him accountable for the tornado destruction..
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Pussy.
I have no problem if Butterbean chooses to pray. If he feels that constitutes a "blessing" of sorts, then more power to him. What would constitute a non-pussy reaction in your opinion?
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I have no problem if Butterbean chooses to pray. If he feels that constitutes a "blessing" of sorts, then more power to him. What would constitute a non-pussy reaction in your opinion?
You dont take compliments on getbig. 8) Butterbean is also a woman.
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I have stopped praying. It has done nothing to ease my pain, and although that may be a selfish reason to pray, it is a reason nonetheless. :'(
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I have no problem if Butterbean chooses to pray. If he feels that constitutes a "blessing" of sorts, then more power to him. What would constitute a non-pussy reaction in your opinion?
I think shizzo was trying to be funny. Sometimes he succeeds! This time, not so much lol sorry shizzo ;D
LOL....exactly!
Best meltdown I've ever read :)
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some of the most miserable people in the world pray every day
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I have stopped praying. It has done nothing to ease my pain, and although that may be a selfish reason to pray, it is a reason nonetheless. :'(
BS, you may be interested in checking out a small book of devotions by Sarah Young, "Jesus Calling." It may be harder to you receive some of the devotions since you (I think) are not a believer in Christ as Savior, but here is a sample in case you want to check it out:
May 25
"The world is too much with you, My child. Your mind leaps from problem to problem to problem, tangling your thoughts in anxious knots. When you think like that, you leave Me out of your world-view and your mind becomes darkened. Though I yearn to help, I will not violate your freedom. I stand silently in the background of your mind, waiting for you to remember that I am with you.
When you turn from your problems to My Presence, your load is immediately lighter. Circumstances may not have changed, but we carry your burdens together. Your compulsion to "fix" everything gives way to deep, satisfying connection w/Me. Together we can handle whatever this day brings."
She also includes scripture at the end of each devotion that you could look up if you choose to do so.
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Best meltdown I've ever read :)
;)
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It may be harder to you receive some of the devotions since you (I think) are not a believer in Christ as Savior,
Don't you see this suggestion right here as proof that any benefit someone derives from prayer is psychosomatic. I don't have to believe in aspirin or penicillin for it too work. If something is effective, it works whether you believe in it or not.
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Don't you see this suggestion right here as proof that any benefit someone derives from prayer is psychosomatic. I don't have to believe in aspirin or penicillin for it too work. If something is effective, it works whether you believe in it or not.
That devotion is more about not focusing on your troubles and focusing on Jesus. But I can see you might relate that as well to being somewhat psychosomatic as in the context of focusing on a cupcake instead of a spider helps you think more about what is pleasant than not....hope that's not too G-Thang confusing. ;D
But to a Christian who has appreciation and love and awe for Jesus Christ, that devotion is probably going to be received differently than to someone who doesn't "know" Him/feel changed/saved by Him.
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If something is effective, it works whether you believe in it or not.
Exactly, whether or not you believe in God he is still at work and is completely effective, but the term "psychomatic" lends itself to a condition of mental illness and/or the inability to fully utilize your faculties appropriately. The efficacy of God and prayer being reduced to a mere medical diagnosis is simply another form of convenient escapism.
For those that desire to claim him as savior the revelation will become personal and even tangible per the Holy Spirit. That's why I mentioned the notion of two-way communication in a successful relationship in my earlier posts. We communicate with the Lord via prayer and he often responds via his Holy Spirit that indwells his body of believers. Of course this idea seems fantastic to unbelievers.....it is!!
Still, on occassion he sometimes reveals himself to those that haven't sought him out....this is a rare circumstance though (at least from my knowledge).
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BS, you may be interested in checking out a small book of devotions by Sarah Young, "Jesus Calling." It may be harder to you receive some of the devotions since you (I think) are not a believer in Christ as Savior, but here is a sample in case you want to check it out:
May 25
"The world is too much with you, My child. Your mind leaps from problem to problem to problem, tangling your thoughts in anxious knots. When you think like that, you leave Me out of your world-view and your mind becomes darkened. Though I yearn to help, I will not violate your freedom. I stand silently in the background of your mind, waiting for you to remember that I am with you.
When you turn from your problems to My Presence, your load is immediately lighter. Circumstances may not have changed, but we carry your burdens together. Your compulsion to "fix" everything gives way to deep, satisfying connection w/Me. Together we can handle whatever this day brings."
She also includes scripture at the end of each devotion that you could look up if you choose to do so.
I like that a lot.
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I like that a lot.
It might be a nice sentiment, but I just don't see the appeal...
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Exactly, whether or not you believe in God he is still at work and is completely effective,
That's not what Butterbean was saying
but the term "psychosomatic" lends itself to a condition of mental illness and/or the inability to fully utilize your faculties appropriately. The efficacy of God and prayer being reduced to a mere medical diagnosis is simply another form of convenient escapism.
What I meant was that anybody who believes that prayer helps them is simply experiencing the placebo effect, they are convinced something is real when it is not and therefore experience a perceived benefit. (one that is not necessarily real). it's simply a form of self delusion.
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It might be a nice sentiment, but I just don't see the appeal...
I understand that actually because I've had the privilege of standing on both sides of the issue.
I like the devotional because in my case (as a believer) I can fully speak to its accuracy as I've personally experienced exactly what it outlines....it completely resonates with me.
Moreso than simply remembering that God is with you (as the devotional notes) I surrendered myself to his will for my life and it's made nothing but positive impacts. I work plenty hard. I endure plenty of struggles (not as much as some), but it's about how I'm able to process the "day-to-day" now that's so different and wonderful. It's much more than "willing myself to smile through the pain" and certainly that is possible for believers and nonbelievers alike. What I speak of is about an absolute change at my core that wasn't about me, but completely about God.....he changed me because I chose him.
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MOS, it's very good and def. worth getting. Get two in case your wife steals your copy ::) and then you can't find it ::)
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That's not what Butterbean was saying
What I meant was that anybody who believes that prayer helps them is simply experiencing the placebo effect, they are convinced something is real when it is not and therefore experience a perceived benefit. (one that is not necessarily real). it's simply a form of self delusion.
Well actually I was only responding to your words.
I do understand what you're suggesting. Standing outside the perspective of the believer you can assign virtually any label you want to the situation, but the labeler is void of genuine understanding. It's not that the opinion and associated label is meaningless, it just that the experience and perspective it's based upon is lacking.
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Well actually I was only responding to your words.
I do understand what you're suggesting. Standing outside the perspective of the believer you can assign virtually any label you want to the situation, but the labeler is void of genuine understanding. It's not that the opinion and associated label is meaningless, it just that the experience and perspective it's based upon is lacking.
You should be a politician MOS, what you said sounds like something, but on closer inspection appears devoid of any real meaning. Maybe that's the key to happiness, talking to yourself like a politician.
So, if I do a study and give someone a placebo and tell them it is a powerful mood drug and that within an hour they should feel very happy. And the participant does actually report greater feelings of happiness. This is something that can not be labelled virtually anything you like, their is a definite well studied placebo effect happening. Just because I am not the study participant having increased feelings of happiness, doesn't mean my placebo perspective is lacking.
I tried to respond as best I could, but personally, I don't think I even know what your post meant. Anyway, prayer seems pretty harmless, kind of like a child's imaginary friend, as long as they don't take it too serious then hopefully they will grow out of it (or just transplant their imaginary friend with GOD)
Wait a minute, do you think it is possible that the imaginary friend phenomenon seen in young children could be involved in belief in GOD later on in adult life. I am being serious. I will have to look into what has been researched about imaginary friends in childhood, it seems to be a common theme for young people.
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I don't think some of you guys get where I am coming from. I want god/heaven to exist. I just have not seen anything at all that would make me believe. Faith? Where does faith get you while you are alive?
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You should be a politician MOS, what you said sounds like something, but on closer inspection appears devoid of any real meaning. Maybe that's the key to happiness, talking to yourself like a politician.
So, if I do a study and give someone a placebo and tell them it is a powerful mood drug and that within an hour they should feel very happy. And the participant does actually report greater feelings of happiness. This is something that can not be labelled virtually anything you like, their is a definite well studied placebo effect happening. Just because I am not the study participant having increased feelings of happiness, doesn't mean my placebo perspective is lacking.
I tried to respond as best I could, but personally, I don't think I even know what your post meant. Anyway, prayer seems pretty harmless, kind of like a child's imaginary friend, as long as they don't take it too serious then hopefully they will grow out of it (or just transplant their imaginary friend with GOD)
Wait a minute, do you think it is possible that the imaginary friend phenomenon seen in young children could be involved in belief in GOD later on in adult life. I am being serious. I will have to look into what has been researched about imaginary friends in childhood, it seems to be a common theme for young people.
Wow! A politician :D ....now that's one I've never heard before LOL!!!
I often encounter recurring responses to my answers to the questions/concerns/objections of others. The problem is if I include too much detail in my answers my audience will claim "the jargon sounds cultish, but is otherwise unintelligible." If I speak more generally the audience will claim "I’m attempting to use language akin to legalease that is open to a myriad number of interpretations, but is otherwise unintelligible."
"My question was one sentence, but MOS you responded with 3 paragraphs....can't you keep it short and sweet? You lost me in the jargon, but honestly I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.”
"My question was one sentence, but you responded so generally I don't know what you're saying. Can't you explain more fully? I don't think you know what you mean."
If something is confusing to someone else I’m always happy to try and clarify. It’s after I’ve presented my position both generally and specifically (and sometimes also via a separate PM I’ve spelled it out even further) and my audience (who is fully competent and intelligent) still claims, “I can’t understand anything you’re saying,” that I simply leave the ball in their court. They get it LOL, they just don’t wanna get it.
I agree, the use of placebos accompanied with specific and/or suggestive language can guide test subjects to a preferred response rather easily. Although since you believe the placebo effect has the potential to impact this situation you can rest easy because your foreknowledge of a potential placebo invalidates any effects it may have from the get go. You can move forward much more confidently because you’ve already eliminated an obstacle to your personal belief.
I think it’s definitely possible that some children that created imaginary friends could turn to God as an alternative as a young adults. I think that’s reasonable.
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I do understand what you're suggesting.
OK Got that
Standing outside the perspective of the believer you can assign virtually any label you want to the situation,
OK Got that
but the labeler is void of genuine understanding.
Now this is where you got confusing, so the person claiming something is an obvious placebo effect is void of genuine understanding, How exactly? This reminds me of a time in my twenties, I was going along to a twelve step fellowship and was pretty sceptical. I was told 'fake it until you make' it and other suggestions like 'praying for god to reveal himself to you' and many other platitudes designed to ease you into the whole god thing. I actually read some book (I don't even recall the name) but the main character sincerely recited the Lords prayer repeatedly and constantly throughout his life. and the vibe of the book was to get the reader to do the same. (I read the book in a day). I remember I spent a whole day internally repeating the lords prayer over and over again and that night I had an indescribable dream with the image of Jesus surrounded by powerful white lights. Although at the time I felt it held some significance, later on reflection I put this down to the placebo effect (I desperately wanted something to happen from the experience) and that the repetitive focus on Jesus, the long book reading session, and the lords prayer seeped into my subconscious and triggered a religious dream.
It's not that the opinion and associated label is meaningless, it just that the experience and perspective it's based upon is lacking.
Are you suggesting the placebo observation is irrelevant because they weren't able to experience what the person experiencing the placebo effect did.
I think what you are saying is it is impossible to explain to a virgin what sex is like. Unless you experience it first hand you can never know. Which I think is unfair, considering the experience isn't something that has a reliable way of being had. Unlike the sexual experience, the path to losing ones virginity isn't so mysterious.
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OK Got thatOK Got thatNow this is where you got confusing, so the person claiming something is an obvious placebo effect is void of genuine understanding, How exactly? This reminds me of a time in my twenties, I was going along to a twelve step fellowship and was pretty sceptical. I was told 'fake it until you make' it and other suggestions like 'praying for god to reveal himself to you' and many other platitudes designed to ease you into the whole god thing. I actually read some book (I don't even recall the name) but the main character sincerely recited the Lords prayer repeatedly and constantly throughout his life. and the vibe of the book was to get the reader to do the same. (I read the book in a day). I remember I spent a whole day internally repeating the lords prayer over and over again and that night I had an indescribable dream with the image of Jesus surrounded by powerful white lights. Although at the time I felt it held some significance, later on reflection I put this down to the placebo effect (I desperately wanted something to happen from the experience) and that the repetitive focus on Jesus, the long book reading session, and the lords prayer seeped into my subconscious and triggered a religious dream.
Are you suggesting the placebo observation is irrelevant because they weren't able to experience what the person experiencing the placebo effect did.
I think what you are saying is it is impossible to explain to a virgin what sex is like. Unless you experience it first hand you can never know. Which I think is unfair, considering the experience isn't something that has a reliable way of being had. Unlike the sexual experience, the path to losing ones virginity isn't so mysterious.
I actually wasn't attempting to delve into the placebo effect in that post. I was merely stating that you can assign the label "placebo effect" to the believer's experience of prayer (or any other label that might make sense). The problem with the unbeliever labeling (or reducing) the experience of the believer's prayer to something like a placebo effect doesn't make it so because the unbeliever lacks the holy spirit in their life. The holy spirit of God indwells the believer, assists the believer, makes things clearer to the believer. It's the reason new believers say things like, "I don't understand how, but I suddenly get what others have been telling me for so long now." Unbelievers simply lack the perspective the holy spirit gives the believer that has accepted Christ as savior.....it makes all the difference. That's why I stated that the opinion of the unbeliever (i.e. labeling prayer as form of placebo effect) is not a meaningless opinion, it just lacks perspective without the holy spirit.
I can assure you though that the clarity brought by the holy spirit is unlike a person experiencing sex for the first time or a person eating a particular food for the first time. It's a very different understanding that's gained.
The dream you mentioned is very cool; unfortunately (for me) I've never had a dream like that. I definitely dream and I can certainly see how events from my day impact those dreams. I fully believe that some dreams are just your own brain at work processing the events of the previous day while other dreams can be inspired by God directly.
Acts 2:17
17 ‘In the last days,’ God says,
‘I will pour out my Spirit upon all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your young men will see visions,
and your old men will dream dreams.
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BikiniSlut, I hope and pray that all is well with you! In case you are still going through some stuff, I thought this info from the Harvard School of Medicine might help some. Best wishes to you!
3 ways to harness positive psychology for a more resilient you
Intriguing research suggests that positive psychology can help you weather the routine ups and downs of life and also build resilience for times of greater difficulty.
Here are three ways to capture the benefits of positive psychology.
Express gratitude. Gratitude is a thankful appreciation for what you have — from a roof over your head to good health to people who care about you. When you acknowledge the goodness in your life, you begin to recognize that the source of that goodness lies at least partially outside yourself. In this way, gratitude helps you connect to something larger than your individual experience — whether to other people, nature, or a higher power.
Set aside a few minutes every day and think about five large or small things you're grateful for. Write them down if you like. Be specific and remember what each thing means to you.
Leverage your strengths. To reap the benefits of your strengths, you first need to know what they are. Unfortunately, according to a British study, only about one-third of people have a useful understanding of their strengths. If something comes easily, you may take it for granted and not identify it as a strength. If you are not sure of your strengths, you can identify them by asking someone you respect who knows you well, by noticing what people compliment you on, and by thinking about what comes most easily to you.
Certain strengths are most closely linked to happiness. They include gratitude, hope, vitality, curiosity, and love. These strengths are so important that they're worth cultivating and applying in your daily life, even if they don't come naturally to you.
Savor the "good." Most people are primed to experience the pleasure in special moments, like a wedding or a vacation. Everyday pleasures, on the other hand, can slip by without much notice. Savoring means placing your attention on pleasure as it occurs, consciously enjoying the experience as it unfolds. Appreciating the treasures in life, big and small, helps build happiness.
Multitasking is the enemy of savoring. Try as you might, you can't fully pay attention to multiple things. If you're scanning the newspaper and listening to the radio during breakfast, you're not getting the pleasure you could from that meal — or the newspaper or radio program. If you're walking the dog on a beautiful path but mentally staring at your day's to-do list, you're missing the moment.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/
Volunteering may be good for body and mind
Studies have shown that volunteering helps people who donate their time feel more socially connected, thus warding off loneliness and depression. But I was surprised to learn that volunteering has positive implications that go beyond mental health. A growing body of evidence suggests that people who give their time to others might also be rewarded with better physical health—including lower blood pressure and a longer lifespan.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/volunteering-may-be-good-for-body-and-mind-201306266428
The power of self-compassion
Forgiving and nurturing yourself can set the stage for better health, relationships, and general well-being. Self-compassion yields a number of benefits, including lower levels of anxiety and depression. Self-compassionate people recognize when they are suffering and are kind to themselves at these times, which reduces their anxiety and related depression.
While some people come by self-compassion naturally, others have to learn it. Luckily, it is a learnable skill.
Harvard psychologist Christopher Germer, in his book The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion, suggests that there are five ways to bring self-compassion into your life: via physical, mental, emotional, relational, and spiritual methods. He and other experts have proposed a variety of ways to foster self-compassion. Here are a few:
• Comfort your body. Eat something healthy. Lie down and rest your body. Massage your own neck, feet, or hands. Take a walk. Anything you can do to improve how you feel physically gives you a dose of self-compassion.
• Write a letter to yourself. Describe a situation that caused you to feel pain (a breakup with a lover, a job loss, a poorly received presentation). Write a letter to yourself describing the situation without blaming anyone. Acknowledge your feelings.
• Give yourself encouragement. If something bad or painful happens to you, think of what you would say to a good friend if the same thing happened to him or her. Direct these compassionate responses toward yourself.
• Practice mindfulness. This is the nonjudgmental observation of your own thoughts, feelings, and actions, without trying to suppress or deny them. When you look in the mirror and don’t like what you see, accept the bad with the good with a compassionate attitude.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/
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Nothing is pointless. However I don't see god with a pencil sharpener.
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Nothing is pointless. However I don't see god with a pencil sharpener.
I don't understand the reference about the pencil sharpener. Can someone smarten me up?
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Thanks Loco.
I've stopped any type of communication with God for about the last six weeks. It was just making me feel worse. I felt as if no one cared and no one was listening. I feel better about it.
Maybe I'll try to reconnect one day, but this is not the time. I have no faith in a "God" right now.
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Thanks Loco.
I've stopped any type of communication with God for about the last six weeks. It was just making me feel worse. I felt as if no one cared and no one was listening. I feel better about it.
Maybe I'll try to reconnect one day, but this is not the time. I have no faith in a "God" right now.
Glad to know that you are feeling better!
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Thanks Loco.
I've stopped any type of communication with God for about the last six weeks. It was just making me feel worse. I felt as if no one cared and no one was listening. I feel better about it.
Maybe I'll try to reconnect one day, but this is not the time. I have no faith in a "God" right now.
loco does have a very good heart.
I sure hope that despite whatever obstacles are in your life that are preventing you from engaging faith in God that you will continue to think about it and meditate on it. Faith isn't an easy business initially and I speak from experience. It took me having one foot in the grave before I surrendered myself to the Lord's will for my life and I've never been the same.
For some faith begins with a leap and for others faith begins with an honest desire to truly find out if God is real. For the believer faith then transitions from a leap to full assurance in the heart when the new believer is then indwelt by the Holy Spirit. That moment of acceptance of Christ by faith is the turning point, the time in which the new believer has clarity, fresh eyes and begins to experience the very presence of the creator himself. It requires a genuine desire to know God and a humble heart that surrenders to God's will for their life. From my humble chair there is only upside to belief in Jesus Christ.
Today may not be your day for faith, but my prayer is that before your life comes to an end that your day for faith does arrive.
God bless!!
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Thanks Loco.
I've stopped any type of communication with God for about the last six weeks. It was just making me feel worse. I felt as if no one cared and no one was listening. I feel better about it.
Maybe I'll try to reconnect one day, but this is not the time. I have no faith in a "God" right now.
There is nothing wrong with this
I always say that if there's a God he won't judge you based upon whether or not you believe 100 percent. He will judge you based on whether or not you treat your fellow man with decency on a day to day basis.
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Isaiah 64:5-9
5 You welcome those who gladly do good,
who follow godly ways.
But you have been very angry with us,
for we are not godly.
We are constant sinners;
how can people like us be saved?
6 We are all infected and impure with sin.
When we display our righteous deeds,
they are nothing but filthy rags.
Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall,
and our sins sweep us away like the wind.
7 Yet no one calls on your name
or pleads with you for mercy.
Therefore, you have turned away from us
and turned us over to our sins.
8 And yet, O Lord, you are our Father.
We are the clay, and you are the potter.
We all are formed by your hand.
9 Don’t be so angry with us, Lord.
Please don’t remember our sins forever.
Look at us, we pray,
and see that we are all your people.
Romans 10:1-13
1 Dear brothers and sisters, the longing of my heart and my prayer to God is for the people of Israel to be saved.
2 I know what enthusiasm they have for God, but it is misdirected zeal.
3 For they don’t understand God’s way of making people right with himself. Refusing to accept God’s way, they cling to their own way of getting right with God by trying to keep the law.
4 For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.
5 For Moses writes that the law’s way of making a person right with God requires obedience to all of its commands.
6 But faith’s way of getting right with God says, “Don’t say in your heart, ‘Who will go up to heaven?’ (to bring Christ down to earth).
7 And don’t say, ‘Who will go down to the place of the dead?’ (to bring Christ back to life again).”
8 In fact, it says, “The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart.” And that message is the very message about faith that we preach:
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.
11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”
12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him.
13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
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I will never stop pondering or trying to find my faith. Ever. However right now I get "stressed" thinking about it. Once I'm in a better place, which I'm slowly starting to find again, I will try and reconnect.
Perhaps I'm just angry....but I feel better not thinking about his/her/its existence right now.
I'm on the mend. Perhaps a God has been apart of that. I don't know.
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I will never stop pondering or trying to find my faith. Ever. However right now I get "stressed" thinking about it. Once I'm in a better place, which I'm slowly starting to find again, I will try and reconnect.
Perhaps I'm just angry....but I feel better not thinking about his/her/its existence right now.
I'm on the mend. Perhaps a God has been apart of that. I don't know.
Speaking from my own experience, the stress and anger of my past drove a wedge between me and God. Today when confronted with stress I process it completely different than I ever did before. I have as much or more stress today, but now my heart is aligned with Jesus Christ and that makes the seemingly unbearable completely bearable.
Now when obstacles come before me I don't crumple or lash out I try and immediately collect myself and recognize the opportunity God has put before me. It's an opportunity to learn something new, overcome a fear, but even greater so it's an opportunity to draw closer to my savior. Certainly I have bad days, certainly I experience anger, but I choose to turn it over quickly to God now. I don't internalize it, I don't dwell on it, I give over to him. It's a process of spiritual development and I have a lifetime of learning, but I'll do so in accordance with his will for my life.
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I don't understand the reference about the pencil sharpener. Can someone smarten me up?
Don't mind me, I think I outsmarted myself here ;D
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Don't mind me, I think I outsmarted myself here ;D
No worries, I have no idea what I'm sayin either sometimes. ;D
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I often thought about this. Seems that a lot of people only pray because they want something. Even if it's because you want to be high up in the 7th heaven... that's still wanting something... you want to be in the most high position as possible. Good post :)