Author Topic: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers  (Read 20353 times)

lovemonkey

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2012, 04:45:08 PM »
I dont give a fuck about the statistics, Im not going to become one. Ill leave that up to you.

If I have the upper hand and the opportunity, im taking it. Im not going to play statistics with my life, because there is a very real chance that 1 time I get robbed, I may be that "1 in 100" that gets killed.

You're probably way more likely to die in traffic than getting killed by some murdering crackhead. Are you going to stop driving vehicles from now on? You don't wanna be some statistic, right?


EDIT: Just think really hard for a second why you are way more passionate about the idea of potentially getting robbed/murdered than getting run over by some old lady in a SUV. Just think about it.
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Shockwave

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2012, 04:47:22 PM »
You're probably way more likely to die in traffic than getting killed by some murdering crackhead. Are you going to stop driving vehicles from now on? You don't wanna be some statistic, right?
Im not being robbed by an armed attacker every time I get in a car, am I?
How do you not understand I just said I dont give a fuck about the statistics of how likely I am to get injured - if I have a way to prevent it from happening, Im jumping all over it.

Comparing being robbed to driving a car, Jesus Christ.

lovemonkey

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2012, 04:49:34 PM »
Im not being robbed by an armed attacker every time I get in a car, am I?
How do you not understand I just said I dont give a fuck about the statistics of how likely I am to get injured - if I have a way to prevent it from happening, Im jumping all over it.

Comparing being robbed to driving a car, Jesus Christ.

Well that argument totally went over your head.

Alright fine, you don't give a shit about statistics. Great.
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Shockwave

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2012, 04:51:24 PM »
Well that argument totally went over your head.

Alright fine, you don't give a shit about statistics. Great.
It didnt go over my head, its not fucking applicable in this situation, and its just a pathetic attempt by you to justify acting like a bitch.
Its ok, youre a pansy, accept it and move on.

OTHstrong

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2012, 04:56:58 PM »
That's the very thing though. You can't really be sure of anything in a situation like that. Being a bitch doesn't necessarily mean that you'll live to tell the tale and neither does pulling a gun. Only way to settle this discussion is to bring up some REAL crime statistics. What IS more likely to happen? I could very well be wrong. But I think I'm not unwise to assume that robberies are way more common than robbery-murder. It's not an unreasonable assumption. Prove me wrong.
Funny you should mention this, cause this guy not only prevented a robbery by being brave but he also is responsible for bringing down the crime rate, the more people like this spring up into action the better the overall results are. Your logic is based on speculation that someone could have gotten hurt, how about speculating that if the guy had not have stopped them, these 2 guys would have been trigger happy and shot someone, who's to say, your logic is flawed.

lovemonkey

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2012, 04:58:12 PM »
It didnt go over my head, its not fucking applicable in this situation, and its just a pathetic attempt by you to justify acting like a bitch.
Its ok, youre a pansy, accept it and move on.

Well they both are different ways of dying with one being way more likely than the other, but for some reason you care A LOT more about the one that is LESS likely. Why? It couldn't possibly be pride, right?
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2012, 04:59:50 PM »
Alright, I think our discussion basically boils down to this:

My argument:

Assuming that most robbery victims who don't put up a fight don't get shot or lethally injured are better off just accepting that they're about to lose their wallet, cell phone etcetc. If you don't put up a fight, you'll have a good chance of escaping relatively unharmed from the ordeal. Forcing the attacker to fight or flee will most likely result in someone getting seriously hurt or die.

My argument is also assuming that what really matters is your own life and the well being of victims in the vicinity.

Your argument:

Everyone should have use their right to defend themselves at any time, even though that might start a gunfight. Victims are very likely to die if they don't fight back. Because the attacker initiated hostility any additional risk added by the victim is irrelevant. The victim will improve his chances of surviving enormously by fighting back. The attacker/robber almost always loses such a conflict.

Your argument also assumes that fighting back means you're not a bitch.




Lets just accept that we view this from entirely different perspectives.






Quote
My argument:

Assuming that most robbery victims who don't put up a fight don't get shot or lethally injured are better off just accepting that they're about to lose their wallet, cell phone etcetc. If you don't put up a fight, you'll have a good chance of escaping relatively unharmed from the ordeal. Forcing the attacker to fight or flee will most likely result in someone getting seriously hurt or die.

My argument is also assuming that what really matters is your own life and the well being of victims in the vicinity.

Your ' argument ' was just proven to be null and void , watch the video again. Your ' argument ' laments on how someone who doesn't want to take a chance with his life is putting people at risk while the guys who initiated the whole scenario aren't as long as we play the odds  ::)

You're making excuses for the criminals are accusing the one guy who did something about as reckless and irresponsible , fantastic logic.  ::) you're using examples of what could have happened instead of what did  ::)  ::)



Quote
Your argument:

Everyone should have use their right to defend themselves at any time, even though that might start a gunfight. Victims are very likely to die if they don't fight back. Because the attacker initiated hostility any additional risk added by the victim is irrelevant. The victim will improve his chances of surviving enormously by fighting back. The attacker/robber almost always loses such a conflict.

Your argument also assumes that fighting back means you're not a bitch.

My argument is the guy in the video did nothing wrong and anyone who thinks otherwise is flat out wrong.

Bam-bam

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »
wow just great, a situation that had a low to moderate chance of shots being fired now turned into people getting potentially lethally injured and exposing innocent bystanders to the same risk.

x2

Very bad decision to exchange shots with them, specially considering the old man was outnumbered and probably untrained as well in a territory packed with innocent people. Thank God the two robbers were such of a pussies, otherwise it would be blood bath.

From one of my favourite books:
Quote
Weapons are tools of ill omen.  War is a grave matter; one is apprehensive lest men embark upon it without due reflection.

lovemonkey

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2012, 05:01:45 PM »
Funny you should mention this, cause this guy not only prevented a robbery by being brave but he also is responsible for bringing down the crime rate, the more people like this spring up into action the better the overall results are. Your logic is based on speculation that someone could have gotten hurt, how about speculating that if the guy had not have stopped them, these 2 guys would have been trigger happy and shot someone, who's to say, your logic is flawed.

Again, there are no certainties when it comes to these type of situations. But just consider the robbery to robbery-murder ratio, assuming that the victim does nothing to fight back in both categories. Which one happens more frequently if you were to make an educated guess?

The discussion have come to the point where only real solid statistics can advice us on what actions are likely to lead to certain outcomes. My own personal guess is just as worthless as anyone else's here.
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Shockwave

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2012, 05:02:17 PM »
Well they both are different ways of dying with one being way more likely than the other, but for some reason you care A LOT more about the one that is LESS likely. Why? It couldn't possibly be pride, right?
Lol @ pride. No, when someone is robbing you with a firearm, the chance he's going to blast you is always there. If I have the opportunity to kill him 1st, Im going to. Why? To DENY him the opportunity to kill me.
You'd be happy standing there giving him every opportunity to kill.

Not me.

lovemonkey

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2012, 05:03:43 PM »

Your ' argument ' was just proven to be null and void , watch the video again. Your ' argument ' laments on how someone who doesn't want to take a chance with his life is putting people at risk while the guys who initiated the whole scenario aren't as long as we play the odds  ::)

You're making excuses for the criminals are accusing the one guy who did something about as reckless and irresponsible , fantastic logic.  ::) you're using examples of what could have happened instead of what did  ::)  ::)



My argument is the guy in the video did nothing wrong and anyone who thinks otherwise is flat out wrong.

To be quite honest, I thought that you'd realize by now that the discussion is more a general one and doesn't entirely depend on the what happened in the video.

But sure, all went "well" in that video. Great. I'll admit that.
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Shockwave

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2012, 05:03:58 PM »
x2

Very bad decision, specially considering the old man was outnumbered and probably untrained as well in a territory packed with innocent people. Thank God the two robbers were such of a pussies, otherwise it would be blood bath.

From one of my favourite books:
Actually, he made a great choice. One was preoccupied, the other was trying to cover a roomful of people at once. Wait till he's looking the other way, draw and aim, fire, knock down one and move to the next.
What he did was textbook perfect.

lovemonkey

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2012, 05:04:49 PM »
Lol @ pride. No, when someone is robbing you with a firearm, the chance he's going to blast you is always there. If I have the opportunity to kill him 1st, Im going to. Why? To DENY him the opportunity to kill me.
You'd be happy standing there giving him every opportunity to kill.

Not me.

Maybe it's just my poor communication skills causing it but you're still not getting the argument.
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Bam-bam

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2012, 05:07:13 PM »
Maybe it's just my poor communication skills causing it but you're still not getting the argument.

dont waste time with people that dont believe in simple math.

OTHstrong

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2012, 05:09:38 PM »
Again, there are no certainties when it comes to these type of situations. But just consider the robbery to robbery-murder ratio, assuming that the victim does nothing to fight back in both categories. Which one happens more frequently if you were to make an educated guess?

The discussion have come to the point where only real solid statistics can advice us on what actions are likely to lead to certain outcomes. My own personal guess is just as worthless as anyone else's here.
I agree in 1 single robbery that statistic can be measured in your favour, however there are more variables to consider here, how about if this is their 7th arm robbery, do you think they will ever do another one?, No fucken way, so say in their lifetime they would have done another ten, so this guy just prevented another 10 robberies. Now let's compare what is more likely; someone gets hurt in 1 robbery that has a guy fight back or someone gets hurt in 10 robberies where no one fights back, I think the 10 robberies would yield more potential harm.

lovemonkey

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2012, 05:12:43 PM »

Your ' argument ' was just proven to be null and void , watch the video again. Your ' argument ' laments on how someone who doesn't want to take a chance with his life is putting people at risk while the guys who initiated the whole scenario aren't as long as we play the odds  ::)

You're making excuses for the criminals are accusing the one guy who did something about as reckless and irresponsible , fantastic logic.  ::) you're using examples of what could have happened instead of what did  ::)  ::)



My argument is the guy in the video did nothing wrong and anyone who thinks otherwise is flat out wrong.

Most of this post is just us running around in circles but I will point out that the robbers didn't shoot or seriously hurt anyone. The old guy DID, though. That doesn't mean that robbers aren't scumbags though, you know very well I'm not that fucking dumb so don't go there.
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el numero uno

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2012, 05:14:21 PM »
Have you guys ever been robbed? It's way different than what it's shown on TV and trying to be an hero is def stupid. You'll be safer if they get the money and run away, rather than acting like a brave moron.


lovemonkey

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2012, 05:15:01 PM »
I agree in 1 single robbery that statistic can be measured in your favour, however there are more variables to consider here, how about if this is their 7th arm robbery, do you think they will ever do another one?, No fucken way, so say in their lifetime they would have done another ten, so this guy just prevented another 10 robberies. Now let's compare what is more likely; someone gets hurt in 1 robbery that has a guy fight back or someone gets hurt in 10 robberies where no one fights back, I think the 10 robberies would yield more potential harm.

You may not like it, but the job of preventing those crimes belongs to the society bringing those thugs up, and the police. Your argument kinda makes sense at first glance but when you think about it you realize it's quite unreasonable to suggest that people should start executing each other in order to prevent "potential" crime.
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Shockwave

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2012, 05:23:11 PM »
Have you guys ever been robbed? It's way different than what it's shown on TV and trying to be an hero is def stupid. You'll be safer if they get the money and run away, rather than acting like a brave moron.


Have you? I have, by someone with a knife, and they didnt get anything. Not because I pulled my gun (as I didnt have it on me, never again), but because I stood my ground and refused to give him shit.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2012, 05:24:25 PM »
Most of this post is just us running around in circles but I will point out that the robbers didn't shoot or seriously hurt anyone. The old guy DID, though. That doesn't mean that robbers aren't scumbags though, you know very well I'm not that fucking dumb so don't go there.

They didn't have time  ;)

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2012, 05:25:30 PM »
I'll bend over any day of the week if it means that myself and others are less likely to get fucking shot.

Trigger-happy morons.
you are a pussy fag

Shockwave

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2012, 05:25:54 PM »
Most of this post is just us running around in circles but I will point out that the robbers didn't shoot or seriously hurt anyone. The old guy DID, though. That doesn't mean that robbers aren't scumbags though, you know very well I'm not that fucking dumb so don't go there.
The dude shot 2 robbers, who fucking cares. Playing by your "what ifs", if he hadn't shot them, maybe they would have shot someone else and KILLED them? What then?
We could go round and round.

We get it, you prefer to let them do their business and hope they arent psychopaths - and thats your choice. Im not going to do that, statistics be damned.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2012, 05:26:23 PM »
You may not like it, but the job of preventing those crimes belongs to the society bringing those thugs up, and the police. Your argument kinda makes sense at first glance but when you think about it you realize it's quite unreasonable to suggest that people should start executing each other in order to prevent "potential" crime.

There was NO ' potential ' crime there was in fact a very major and serious crime being committed , Armed robbery is MAJOR shit and again wait for the cops and become a statistic or be proactive and learn to protect yourself

 

lovemonkey

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2012, 05:32:14 PM »
They didn't have time  ;)

*sigh*

Neither you or I know what would have happened if the old fart didn't whip out a gun. Don't pretend like you do. It's not even an argument. The robbery to robbery-murder ratio is definitely something to consider, though.

You come across as a good and smart guy in every other thread but right now you seem like a stubborn idiot to me and I'm sure it's also the other way around to you. I'm going to bed now which is probably for the better.

Lets just hope that none of us will find ourselves in a spot where we have to make a life and death decision in a split second.... It's not fun, no matter where you're coming from.
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lovemonkey

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Re: Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2012, 05:33:42 PM »
There was NO ' potential ' crime there was in fact a very major and serious crime being committed , Armed robbery is MAJOR shit and again wait for the cops and become a statistic or be proactive and learn to protect yourself

 

You do what is necessary in the here and now, any consideration of any potential future crimes should not be a factor in your decision to shoot them or not. Do you honestly think I'm retarded? It's fine if you think I'm are, I'm just trying to understand your thought process trying to argue with me.
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