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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: 240 is Back on November 12, 2006, 12:54:15 AM
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Venezuela Officially Says 9/11 was "Self Inflicted"
Venezuela's president continued his criticism of President Bush after the pro-Chávez legislature declared that the 9/11 attacks were `self-inflicted.'
PHIL GUNSON
The Miami Herald
Saturday, November 11, 2006
CARACAS - When Venezuela's leftist President Hugo Chávez called President Bush ''the devil'' in a U.N. speech in September, many thought his ''anti-imperialist'' rhetoric had reached rock bottom.
But fresh depths have since been plumbed. The Venezuelan government, to judge from recent events, officially regards Bush as a genocidal Nazi who arranged the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to justify aggression against other nations.
In a speech Tuesday, Chávez criticized the decision of an Iraqi court to sentence former dictator Saddam Hussein to the death penalty. ''If sentencing is to be done,'' Chávez said, ``the first one to be given the most severe sentence this planet has to offer should be the president of the United States, if we're talking about genocidal presidents.''
RESOLUTION ON 9/11
His comments, which were fairly typical of his recent attacks on Bush, came shortly after the publication of a resolution by Venezuela's legislative National Assembly describing the 9/11 attacks as ''self-inflicted'' and after an exhibition at the Foreign Ministry building in Caracas in which Bush was portrayed as a Nazi storm trooper.
The resolution, which appeared in the official government gazette in mid-October, primarily criticized Washington's decision to build a wall along the Mexican border to keep illegal immigrants out.
But in its fourth paragraph, it calls on the U.S. Congress to ``demand that the government of President Bush explain the self-inflicted attack on the World Trade Center and its victims, the supposed aircraft that crashed into the Pentagon and the links between the bin Laden family and the Bush family.''
The resolution, drafted by the deputy chairman of the Foreign Affairs Commission, Carlos Escarrá, was passed unanimously by the 167-member assembly, all of them Chávez supporters after an opposition boycott of elections last December.
Both Chávez and Foreign Minister Nicolás Maduro have referred several times in the past to suspicions that the 9/11 attacks were planned by the Bush administration, and have called for an inquiry.
But this appears to be the first time that the term ''self-inflicted attack'' has been used without qualification.
Asked how the legislature had reached that conclusion, Escarrá said that ''evidence and testimonies'' had emerged in the United States and that ''for the rest of the world, there is no longer any question'' that 9/11 was not an al Qaeda attack.
About the time the lawmakers were approving the resolution, an exhibition called ''Truths About the Empire'' was on display in the foyer of the Foreign Ministry. It included a photo montage showing Bush dressed in the uniform of the German SS.
The exhibition was removed after a reporter for a U.S. newspaper asked to photograph it. A U.S. diplomat, who asked for anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record about the issue, said the display was ``an insult to the 400,000 Americans who died in World War II fighting the Nazis.''
Escarrá said the comparison might indeed be considered unfair -- but to Hitler, not to Bush. ''Hitler was a babe in arms compared to Bush,'' he asserted. He added that just like Hitler, Bush had ``an extermination plan.''
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while i understand and can somewhat tolerate their bush bashing, the nazi and especially HITLER comparisons have no place.
these douches need to seriously lean something about history and nazi germany before they compare Bush to Hitler ::)
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Here is the ultimate question 240:
What is there to be done about all of this? I know you want an unbiased investigation, but what else? What I mean is what can you, personnaly, do to make a change?
Get out and vote?
You're smart enought to realize that your single vote will not make much of a difference, especially when the results tend to be very dubious in nature. Democracy has become a crutch for apathy. It is a sin against society in a sense. Instead of really bringing about change in its totality, we VOTE! What a pathetic excuse for change.
Spread the word?
Yeah, knowledge is the first step towards change. But once knowledge of a given subject has been acquired, inaction or apathy will not bring change
(though you still should make a point in spreading the "truth")
Bitch?
I'm not attacking you personnaly, but I always see these 9/11 conspiracy topics and I think most of us here are fully aware of your opinion. Don't get me wrong, I admire and understand your frustration, but bitching will only take us so far.
I'm not sure what I mean here, but I know that I mean it.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, "Stop bitching and start a revolution"
Hope this helps. ;)
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Who gives a rip what Venezuela thinks? Besides 240. :)
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Nope. Revolution is not the answer. We have the constitution. We voted the repubs out of congress because enough people saw lies in Iraq, wiretapping, 911, or something else. (You cannot discount the number of 911 voters - only 16% of Americans sitll believe the complete bush story of that day's events).
Give it time. Once 100% of people know 911 was an inside job, then more people will run for office on that platform. It's supply and demand. And once in, a new investigation will get the moles on the front line to admit who told them what to do. That FAA supervisor who destroyed recordings, for instance! Put his ass in prison if he won't say who.
There were four Pearl harbor investigations over several decades. We're just 5 years past 9/11. If people demand it, candidates will run on it and once in, they will have to do it to keep their jobs. That's the beautiful stage - we're only in the EYE OPENING phase of the 911 saga. Everyone needs to know. Once they do, the next stage - an unbiased investigation - can commence :)
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hahah nothing major can be hidden anymore...due to the combination of human nature and all the available outlets nowdays...
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I understand what you're saying, but do you think that people being aware of a 9/11 conspiracy or simple general propoganda and government lies will prevent similar stuff from happening in the future?
In Mein Kempf, Hitler points out very clearly how well propoganda and government manipulation can be used on the government's own people. There are three types of people that read the paper: those that believe everything that is said, those that believe nothing that is said, and those that thoughtfully deliberate over all the given information. Hitler knew that those that will believe everything are by far the majority. Bush knows this, as well as every political candidate to ever step foot in the White House.
Knowing about the 9/11 conspiracy is one thing, making sure that something even remotly similar happens again is another. I'm not saying it is impossible, just that there is a lengthy historical precedent leading to the assumption that changing people's already established opinions is difficult.
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P.S. Your "constitution" is just a hobgobblin of words when the government has the ability to destroy buildings, start unprovoked wars, and leave it's people starving in the ghetto.
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At the very least, every US citizen knowing will lead to it not happeneing again. No one would buy it. maybe in 50 years with a new generation, but even then, I don't know...
At the very most, some of those involved would go up the river. The 911 apologists often forget that 2972 americans were killed that day.
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P.S. Your "constitution" is just a hobgobblin of words when the government has the ability to destroy buildings, start unprovoked wars, and leave it's people starving in the ghetto.
wow, you're a cool member to have on board! :)
The govt has that ability, sure. But the people have a freedom to talk about it. It took 40 years for 80% of Americans polled to believe JFK was inside job. It only took 5 years on 911. ;)
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Thanks
But, again, the people's knowledge hasn't seemed to prevent anything (or very little). I bet tomorrow, if President Bush were assasinated, the majority of American's would believe some white-washed story of Bin Laden committing the act out of "jelousy of our freedom." My contention is that not only will we routinley believe some poorly developed cover-up story, Americans will put full faith and "patriotism" behind their dismay.
God forbid when something like 9/11 happens again, it will be only a select few that believe otherwise from the government reports. And those that do believe will post on random message boards trying to get their voices heard. All the while the government will be planning another similar disaster.
So very sad >:(
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why should Hugo Chavez's opinion mean anything to us? Hugo runs a backwarks country. He supported the random missle firings into Israel. The "white slave" trade in Venezuela is booming. Why not dig up Al Zarqari and ask his corpse for its thoughts. Id believe his rotting body before Chavez.
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I hate to deviate from the subject at hand, but I'd like to say that if we want to prevent another 9/11 from happening all we have to do is stop pissing people off, e.g. stop bombing everyone in the name of "democracy".
It's human nature, regardless of how much money we have, how many weapons we have, how stubbornly patriotic we are, how many "shock and awe" we do onto others; if you take out a person's family and you decimate entire generations of people, chances are their will to stay alive will counter yours, and eventually will be going after your, your kid's and your grandkid's ass.
9/11 was not prevented by Bush. In fact, based on the memos and briefings he took part of in August of 2001, he knew something was going to happen and did nothing about it. Bottom line. He dropped the ball.
I do see sinister black holes of prevention, sort of a letting down of the guard, in preceding governments though: Pearl Harbor, the sinking of the Maine, 9/11. I'd like to believe that our government did not know, although after reading up on the subject... I don't know... :-[ :-[ :-[
I travel a lot and like to listen to other people's opinion on us, and must say that A LOT of people are pissed at us. Not only that, I've heard a change in the rhetoric from one in which all fault was put on our government to one in which people think we, paycheck America, approve the mass bombings of civilians (hence killings). I've even heard it in England! I heard a comment that goes something like "if you smell shit then Americans can't be too far away" or something like that. It is really getting nasty out there.
One of the things I'd do is IMMEDIATELY drop our support for Israel. Force them to get along with the Palestinians. Sure, it's a huge generations-long job, but someone has to fix it. They're Semitic peoples, they have more in common that they'd like to admit.
I'd call this new policy "Leave us the fuck alone!".
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I'd call this new policy "Leave us the f**k alone!".
;D ;D ;D
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Who gives a rip what Venezuela thinks? Besides 240. :)
Hugo is a nutcase.
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Slapper, I agree. But many in our govt have secret dual-citizenship with Israel. Many of the corporations that own the US corporation (thanks to the fed reserve, we are actually a corporation) are Israeli.
On 9/11, there were monster signs that Israelis working there knew. One israeli company moved their entire firm out, 1 week before, breaking their lease. Early reports after 9/11 said that only THREE persons of known Jewish descent died on 9/11. Two on the planes, and onevisiting salesman in the towers. In a building full of so many banking/finance firms (strong Israeli influence in industry) everyone took the day off.
Plus, the ISR intelligence agency Mossad told us all about 9/11 beforehand, and we ignored it.
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Yeah, listen to Chavez, now there's a reliable source he praises about all he's doing for his people yet the country has an 80% unimployment rate, and to top it off the dudes a certfiable nutcase....I put him him along the lines of a Kim Jong Ill!
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Hugo is a nutcase.
True.
Maybe he should head up the new 9/11 conspiracy investigation?
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Maybe he should head up the new 9/11 conspiracy investigation?
If you lost a family member in the Towers, would you be so casual and flippant about a fair and unbiased investigation?
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I didn't bother reading this, because once I saw "Venezuela" in the title, I knew it was pointless. Hugo Chavez is the world's biggest whack-job. ::)
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Hugo Chavez is the world's biggest whack-job. ::)
Correct.
Now...
Bush told us it was all the terrorists, and Chavez tells us that elements of the US Govt were complicit...
What does the evidence say? And *IF* it comes out that it was an inside job, that means that Chavez, the fuckhead that he is, told us the truth and bush did not. How's that for lousy options?
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didn't prescot bush have nazi connections?
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didn't prescot bush have nazi connections?
supposedly both the Bush and Walker families were tied up with helping finance the Nazi's and even stranger:
"According to Wilson, and to Retired U.S. Navy Lt. Commander Al Martin (www.almartinraw.com), Rove's grandfather was Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg. Roverer was Reich-Statthalter---Nazi State Party Chairman---for his region. He was also a partner and senior engineer in the Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurburo A. G. engineering firm, which built the Birkenau death camp, at which tens of thousands of Jews, Gypsies, dissidents and other were slaughtered en masse."
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1006-08.htm
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wow, that is really interesting, although not very relevant being as it is Karl Rove leading the White House and not his grandfather. But seriously it is still an interesting fact.
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wow, that is really interesting, although not very relevant being as it is Karl Rove leading the White House and not his grandfather. But seriously it is still an interesting fact.
yes, I agree
not really relevant but still
interesting
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didn't prescot bush have nazi connections?
From 1933 till 1939 lots of Americans had Nazi connections. When the Nazi's showed their true colors and invaded Poland things changed.
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From 1933 till 1939 lots of Americans had Nazi connections. When the Nazi's showed their true colors and invaded Poland things changed.
Prescott Bush sold to the Nazis even after FDR declared the "Trading with the Enemy Act". The govt seized many of his assets. He got some back after the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush#War_seizures_controversy
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From 1933 till 1939 lots of Americans had Nazi connections. When the Nazi's showed their true colors and invaded Poland things changed.
99.99% of the fortunes made by the "elite" families in the US were made using ilegal means, be it selling opium in Asia, alcohol in "dry" America, etc. It's a fact of life, they are all a bunch of crooks. I see it all the time: a company fires 10.000 workers in the name of saving the company and the next thing the CEO does is give himself a few millions and a "golden parachute". I mean, I'm not making this stuff up, it's on the papers everytime something like this happens. They are all a bunch of thieves... and they don't hide it either. Remember Grasso and NYSE? 100 million for ringing the bell every morning.
Even the "pillars" of our democracy, Washington & Co., were all a bunch of racist and rich landowners who believed only the rich had the God-given right to vote and hold office posts, that slavery was good, that women had no place outside the house, etc. In essence, they were all FULL OF SHIT.
Even Lincoln, the so-called "God" to blacks, was a guy-hata who swapped speaches depending on the situation. So if he were in a racist town he'd blast blacks and if he were in a liberal town he'd praise racial harmony and the end of slavery. Lincoln was forced into doing what he did. Yet he went down in history as one of the most influencial presidents in American history. That is hypocrisy at its best my friends.
Had not been for the fact that many people have died defending the Constitution I'd tell everyone to wipe their asses with it.
We live in a world of illusion. :-[ :-[
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If you lost a family member in the Towers, would you be so casual and flippant about a fair and unbiased investigation?
If I lost a family member in the Towers and they were murdered by the government, I'd be screaming to high heaven like all of the 9/11 family members have been for an investigation in our government's involvement.
Of course we all know that's precisely what happened. ::) Strange how the family members all believe 9/11 was carried out by foreign terrorists.
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Strange how the family members all believe 9/11 was carried out by foreign terrorists.
Will you pay me $1 for every family member who has called 911 an inside job?
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Will you pay me $1 for every family member who has called 911 an inside job?
No. I don't trust your sources. Your information is unreliable.
But I would pay you $1 to stop talking about this loony conspiracy. ;D
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Will you pay me $1 for every family member who has called 911 an inside job?
Only if we here it from their own lips and not a quote from some conspiracy theorie site or Liberal news group who has it in for Bush!
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I am referring to video clips of the 911 families calling it an inside job. Beach Bum, you are wrong in your statement.
Of course we all know that's precisely what happened. ::) Strange how the family members all believe 9/11 was carried out by foreign terrorists.
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Only if we here it from their own lips and not a quote from some conspiracy theorie site or Liberal news group who has it in for Bush!
From there own lips.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8666444901186351024&q=Jersey+Girls+9%2F11
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From there own lips.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8666444901186351024&q=Jersey+Girls+9%2F11
Of course we all know that's precisely what happened. ::) Strange how the family members all believe 9/11 was carried out by foreign terrorists.
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I guess you didn't think I'd watch the clip? Usually a good assumption, but I watched all 2 minutes worth. And your point is? Which one of them called 9/11 a conspiracy carried out by the U.S. government? ::)
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Respected Leaders and Families 9/11 Truth Statement
October 26, 2004, 911truth.org
An alliance of 100 prominent Americans and 40 family members of those killed on 9/11 announced the release of the 911 Truth Statement, a call for immediate inquiry into evidence that suggests high-level government officials may have deliberately allowed the September 11th attacks to occur. The Statement's list of signatories includes notables spanning the political spectrum, from Presidential candidates Ralph Nader, Michael Badnarik, and David Cobb to Catherine Austin Fitts, a member of the first Bush administration, as well as Washington veterans like Pentagon whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg and retired CIA analyst Ray McGovern. Other signers range from peace activists like Code Pink co-founder Jodie Evans and Global Exchange's Kevin Danaher to former US Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq, Edward L. Peck; from environmentalists like Randy Hayes and John Robbins to business leaders such as Paul Hawken and Karl Schwarz, CEO of Patmos Nanotechnologies; from populist journalist Ronnie Dugger to renowned investigative reporter Kelly Patricia O'Meara. The Statement also includes 43 noted authors, including New York Times #1 bestseller John Gray, as well as 18 eminent professors, historians, and theologians. Other notables include five-term Georgia Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, singers Michelle Shocked and Michael Franti, and actors Ed Asner and Mimi Kennedy.
:o
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Okay. I was mildly paying attention till you mentioned Cynthia McKinney. ::) She's nuts.
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Okay. I was mildly paying attention till you mentioned Cynthia McKinney. ::) She's nuts.
yesm, she's an idiot.
But she was dead right about bush having prior knowledge of 911.