Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Vince B on September 21, 2011, 01:25:26 AM
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I said I thought I could still build muscle at my age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever. I am into the experiment now and completed my 4th arm workout today. Training only arms at the moment. Biceps and triceps supersets. Ending in 6 sets with the maximum resistance. Progressing rapidly which is almost scary! Mostly regaining some of my former size. I am confident I can get bigger arms than I have previouly had. Should be an interesting experiment. I will show you guys because I need a strong incentive to keep this training going. So far there is no hint of any diminished response to hypertrophy training. This is what I predicted for myself. I can't say it would be the same for everyone else. I won't even consider using any drugs or supplements. This is a purely natural experiment to show what is possible as one gets older.
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Yes, I am bulky at the moment. I will think about trimming down when I have achieved enough size.
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can't wait for your transformation!
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You should do the infamous 10 WEEK SIZE SURGE..... ::)
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You look like shit.
Hope this helps.
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Dont you have better things to do at "69" than arguing with guys half or less you age and creating "online logs"? ::)
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I said I thought I could still build muscle at my age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever. I am into the experiment now and completed my 4th arm workout today. Training only arms at the moment. Biceps and triceps supersets. Ending in 6 sets with the maximum resistance. Progressing rapidly which is almost scary! Mostly regaining some of my former size. I am confident I can get bigger arms than I have previouly had. Should be an interesting experiment. I will show you guys because I need a strong incentive to keep this training going. So far there is no hint of any diminished response to hypertrophy training. This is what I predicted for myself. I can't say it would be the same for everyone else. I won't even consider using any drugs or supplements. This is a purely natural experiment to show what is possible as one gets older.
What's your training protocols? Sets, reps, ect.?
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Dont you have better things to do at "69" than arguing with guys half or less you age and creating "online logs"? ::)
That's the point. Lots of people have nothing better to do at 69. The better question is: why don't you and I have something better to do..... ;D
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This will be good, not as good as FP, but hey.
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That's the point. Lots of people have nothing better to do at 69. The better question is: why don't you and I have something better to do..... ;D
Good point.
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go for it!
follow gh15's "phases" to the letter,
look like dennis wolf by this time next yr
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Good luck. But are you sure you're natural. ;)
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"He thought he could still build muscle at his age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever for you bitches."
is going to look awesome on your headstone, Vince.
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Muscle memory doesn't count Vince...
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Muscle memory doesn't count Vince...
Vince's muscles have Alzheimer's...
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Vince's muscles have Alzheimer's...
Maybe 50mg of dianabol ed could bring their memory back?
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Maybe 50mg of dianabol ed could bring their memory back?
He could take Nasser's boatload and still not get back his 1830-winning form.
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"Training only arms at the moment" oh brother
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He could take Nasser's boatload and still not get back his 1830-winning form.
LOL, he thinks he can do it natural.
I guess being old really sucks.
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Post up your starting arm measurement and your starting strength levels.
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Give it up old man, we all know ur a fag already.
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You look like shit.
Hope this helps.
Never understood the hate Vince receives. Clearly one of the more intelligent posters here.
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Never understood the hate Vince receives. Clearly one of the more intelligent posters here.
He's a legend.
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You will never do it.
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"He thought he could still build muscle at his age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever for you bitches."
is going to look awesome on your headstone, Vince.
LOL, ;D
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Go back to your old drug regime .. double it .. come back in 6 months and update us .. good luck!!
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Never understood the hate Vince receives. Clearly one of the more intelligent posters here.
Hi Vince....... ::)
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Looking good, V. But why is there a monkey grabbing your pec?
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Y0U CAN SURE BUT TRY GETTING T0 5 PERCENT. DIFFERENT ST0RY AT Y0UR AGE AND H0LDING L0TS 0F MUSCLE.
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The Olympia is over so time for some fun. People have asked who I have trained? Only myself. That is sufficient to demonstrate a principle. The typical bodybuilder cannot accept, comprehend, or acknowledge that something new might be possible in hypertrophy training. You literally have to rethink the notions of recovery and soreness and how they affect maximum growth of muscles. If you refuse to allow new concepts then of course you will scoff at the attempt to build large muscles at an advanced age. It is possible and I will demonstrate this to the Flotsam.
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Assbruise.
I enjoy slapping the old coot around from time to time as much as anyone here, however this has me intrigued....Vince I'd suggest you start a log on the training log board so you can post updated pics, your training and diet regimen, etc. Should be interesting to see the results IF you can stick with it.
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The Olympia is over so time for some fun. People have asked who I have trained? Only myself. That is sufficient to demonstrate a principle. The typical bodybuilder cannot accept, comprehend, or acknowledge that something new might be possible in hypertrophy training. You literally have to rethink the notions of recovery and soreness and how they affect maximum growth of muscles. If you refuse to allow new concepts then of course you will scoff at the attempt to build large muscles at an advanced age. It is possible and I will demonstrate this to the Flotsam.
???
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My dad have better arm than yours without training ;D
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I said I thought I could still build muscle at my age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever. I am into the experiment now and completed my 4th arm workout today. Training only arms at the moment. Biceps and triceps supersets. Ending in 6 sets with the maximum resistance. Progressing rapidly which is almost scary! Mostly regaining some of my former size. I am confident I can get bigger arms than I have previouly had. Should be an interesting experiment. I will show you guys because I need a strong incentive to keep this training going. So far there is no hint of any diminished response to hypertrophy training. This is what I predicted for myself. I can't say it would be the same for everyone else. I won't even consider using any drugs or supplements. This is a purely natural experiment to show what is possible as one gets older.
Go for it Vince!! Rebuilding the gorilla arms....I like it! Fortunately, you've already achieved the required amount of bodyhair for gorilla status so you're one step closer.
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Pretty solid arms for a 70 year old man.
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More body hair appears as most men age. I hope I avoid the injuries the accompany heavy training. I tore my right biceps in 1977 lifting 509 pounds. Elbow was damaged in 1965 from pullovers on a bench with 250 pounds. Shoulders sore from heavy bench presses. Knees a bit tender. Other than those I feel okay. Who else on Getbig has attempted to do something new that hasn't been done before?
I won't be posting details of my training. The end result is what counts. NO drugs of any kind will be used in this experiment. I won't take vitamins or any other supplements. Should sound crazy to most muscle heads.
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I said I thought I could still build muscle at my age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever. I am into the experiment now and completed my 4th arm workout today. Training only arms at the moment. Biceps and triceps supersets. Ending in 6 sets with the maximum resistance. Progressing rapidly which is almost scary! Mostly regaining some of my former size. I am confident I can get bigger arms than I have previouly had. Should be an interesting experiment. I will show you guys because I need a strong incentive to keep this training going. So far there is no hint of any diminished response to hypertrophy training. This is what I predicted for myself. I can't say it would be the same for everyone else. I won't even consider using any drugs or supplements. This is a purely natural experiment to show what is possible as one gets older.
I`m here to motivate you Vince! One question my friend, why are you only training arms?
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Be kind to Vince, he's old enough to be Musclecenters old man....
btw does the Italian Lifter, the old fart, post anymore ?
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Here is Ed Corney 10 years older than you. He says he does Tricep Kickbacks with 150 lb Dbs still. What say you?
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Pretty solid arms for a 70 year old man.
My grandpa too (RIP), he never worked out, just yard work.
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I am pulling for Vince!!! Wish him the best in his training.
Ed Corney is a true legend in bbing!!! Good to see him still looking solid!!!
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Maybe the title of this thread should be changed....
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I am starting with arms only in stage one. The multiple maximum sets will induce the whole upper body to grow. I will soon add legs. You see, even Adam is questioning basic principles. I tell people here that some beliefs held by almost all bodybuilders are false. You do NOT have to train all body parts yet can still make gains in non-target muscles.
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I am starting with arms only in stage one. The multiple maximum sets will induce the whole upper body to grow. I will soon add legs. You see, even Adam is questioning basic principles. I tell people here that some beliefs held by almost all bodybuilders are false. You do NOT have to train all body parts yet can still make gains in non-target muscles.
See what I mean: GetReal.
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Pretty solid arms for a 70 year old man.
I am 69. Hopefully, in a year I will be bigger.
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Dont you have better things to do at "69" than arguing with guys half or less you age and creating "online logs"? ::)
That's the point. Lots of people have nothing better to do at 69. The better question is: why don't you and I have something better to do..... ;D
x2 Like building a future for yourselves. ::)
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I am 69. Hopefully, in a year I will be bigger.
Still playing the mass game going into his 70's; this is a man who has his priorities in order!
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More body hair appears as most men age. I hope I avoid the injuries the accompany heavy training. I tore my right biceps in 1977 lifting 509 pounds. Elbow was damaged in 1965 from pullovers on a bench with 250 pounds. Shoulders sore from heavy bench presses. Knees a bit tender. Other than those I feel okay. Who else on Getbig has attempted to do something new that hasn't been done before?
I won't be posting details of my training. The end result is what counts. NO drugs of any kind will be used in this experiment. I won't take vitamins or any other supplements. Should sound crazy to most muscle heads.
do you recommend using hook grip when deadlifting?
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I am starting with arms only in stage one. The multiple maximum sets will induce the whole upper body to grow. I will soon add legs. You see, even Adam is questioning basic principles. I tell people here that some beliefs held by almost all bodybuilders are false. You do NOT have to train all body parts yet can still make gains in non-target muscles.
You would need a Gravity Suit to actually do this properly or a way to mimic the increase in Gravity via centrifugal force.
Why not make it easier on yourself and just train your whole body?
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You would need a Gravity Suit to actually do this properly or a way to mimic the increase in Gravity via centrifugal force.
Why not make it easier on yourself and just train your whole body?
why not loan him the one you said you invented, stud.
:D
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Here is Ed Corney 10 years older than you. He says he does Tricep Kickbacks with 150 lb Dbs still. What say you?
Ed Corney trains at my gym. When I first saw him get out of his Corvette, I was asking myself "who is this dude that can barely get out of his car?"
Then, when I saw him standing there, I realized he was bigger than I was. His belly is bigger than mine, but he is still proportionately bigger. Too bad that interview doesnt do him any justice, unless you have the where-with all to see how much smaller La Cour is sitting next to him.
I talk to Ed from time to time. He is still a personal trainer, has his business cards with his home addy and everything. He is always looking for more clientele, but his rates ain't cheap! We also raced home one day. He only lives a few miles from me. Let's just say this: "He still trains hard and he still drives fast"
I would imagine that the day he gives that up is the day he dies.
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Should one admire or pity the man.....?
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why not loan him the one you said you invented, stud.
:D
If you remember, I was able to work with NASA, offer input and test prior to its development and No, you cannot have one.
http://dvice.com/archives/2010/11/elastic-gravity.php
(http://dvice.com/assets_c/2010/11/suit-thumb-550xauto-50479.jpg)
Elastic gravity suits keep astronauts strong and sexy
Spending extended time in space can also be dangerous. Besides the inevitable meteor showers and hostile aliens, astronauts also have to contend with things that are harder to defend against, like slowly losing bone mass. A new elastic jumpsuit may be able to help astronauts stay healthy, and keep them looking like superheroes while doing it.
Here on Earth, our bodies are constantly fighting against gravity to keep us upright. This takes a lot of work, as you may have noticed. In space, where gravity isn't a factor, your body doesn't have to work nearly as hard, and it gets lazy. Over time, astronauts lose both muscle tone and bone mass, which can cause problems when they come back home. To help solve this problem (or at least, mitigate it), MIT's Man-Vehicle Laboratory has developed the Gravity Loading Countermeasure Skinsuit, which is actually able to simulate the pull of gravity in weightless environments.
The concept behind the suit is simple: it's too small. The suit itself is made of an elastic material, with foot stirrups. It stretches to fit, but as it does so, the material exerts a force that pulls your shoulders down towards your feet. As far as your bones and muscles can tell, it's a sort of artificial gravity, and it should help to reduce the 2% bone mass that astronauts lose for each month they spend in orbit. This will be especially important for long stays aboard the ISS, and of course for trips to Mars and beyond.
The suit has been tested here on Earth and is apparently quite comfortable and doesn't restrict movement, meaning that it can be worn while working, relaxing or exercising. And let's be honest: sooner or later, astronauts are all going to have to start wearing matching jumpsuits anyway, because that's how we'll know it's the future.
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No training aids or bizarre equipment or devices will be used in this experiment!
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"ron wouldn't give me my blue stars...
...so i type in blue font"
:D
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As roaming around the neighborhood for hours trying to lure hairless 13-yeard olds failed, all that free time leads us to another type of "experiment".
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Is this the 2011 version of the "Colorado experiment?" I am expecting no less than 63 lbs of muscle gain.
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lmao
only training arms ::)
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Vince,
I'm all for your experiment and wish you the best of luck.
That being said, why exactly is it the "GetBig Experiment" when you're the only active participant?
"1"
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dj181 already tried this bullshit.
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The "argument" was that you couldn't get back to where you were as Mr Canada. Meaning the same size at same body fat.
I think Vince believes in high energy intake when building muscle (though it must be hard to only consume 20 grams of protein a day when overeating. Vince believes in low protein so I wonder what he eats). A bulked arm means little when compared to a lean arm.
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Watch out, here comes the "Colorado experiment". ::)
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Getbig IS involved in Basile's mutation in the purest of Getbig traditions. Flaming, insults, prognostications of possible epitaphs and sundry douchebaggery.
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If you remember, I was able to work with NASA, offer input and test prior to its development and No, you cannot have one.
ahahahahahaha sure you did....oh brother ahahahahahahahaha
like seriously- do you expect anyone here to believe your continuous stream bullshit and lies?
what is missing in you that you feel the need to lie to strangers on the internet to feel validated?
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WhT does trueadonis Ctually do for a living?
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ahahahahahaha sure you did....oh brother ahahahahahahahaha
like seriously- do you expect anyone here to believe your continuous stream bullshit and lies?
what is missing in you that you feel the need to lie to strangers on the internet to feel validated?
I don`t expect anyone to believe anything they don`t want to.
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the "experiment"
Pellius, the difference between you and me is that I am a bodybuilder whereas you train with weights. Keep doing what you are doing. Even if a locomotive hit you I doubt you would change! I will demonstrate in due course that I am still a bodybuilder at my age. When I do regain my former size, you owe me a nice dinner when I visit Hawaii. I will pick the menu. We will then take a photo together for the Getbig archives.
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WhT does trueadonis Ctually do for a living?
I thought he was a venture capitalist who made millions of dollars after a few business deals in the mid-90's and now is able to appreciate the finer things in life, like spending time with his lovely lady and cooking gourmet cookies.
"1"
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TA is a gentleman and a scholar.
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in 10 weeks, 20 weeks, 30 weeks.... youll look the same. old without drugs is futile
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You look like shit.
Hope this helps.
post your pic for comparsion so that we can see what a real live alpha male looks like. hope this helps.
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the "experiment"
..."i will show all of you!!!!"
My relative idleness has preserved my body so that I respond well to hypertrophy training and am making rapid gains.
The 'experts' here laugh at me and say I am stupid, senile, crazy, and that my thinking is 'broken'! I will show all of you.
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I don`t expect anyone to believe anything they don`t want to.
AMAZING......ONE DAY HE WORKS WITH NASA......THE NEXT DAY HE IS POSTING @ GETBIG!
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Quoted for epicness.
The typical bodybuilder cannot accept, comprehend, or acknowledge that something new might be possible in hypertrophy training. You literally have to rethink the notions of recovery and soreness and how they affect maximum growth of muscles. If you refuse to allow new concepts then of course you will scoff at the attempt to build large muscles at an advanced age. It is possible and I will demonstrate this to the Flotsam.
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Happy Birthday, Vince!
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bet he has better arms than.. a lot of people on here
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WhT does trueadonis Ctually do for a living?
He copy/pastes ghost-written studies from the internetz.
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Muscle memory doesn't count Vince...
Why not? The guy is nearly 70 years old. Getting back into your former level of conditioning is muscle memory. So what? But there's a huge difference between a 30 year old getting back into his 25 year old condition than a 69 year old doing the same.
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Dont you have better things to do at "69" than arguing with guys half or less you age and creating "online logs"? ::)
Like what? The guy's retired. What's wrong with attempting to undergo a physical transformation and documenting it here? Many are actually interested. If anything, someone your age should have less time to be on this board as you are still building your life with work, education, raising a family.... Sometimes when you are retired you can finally do things you never had the time to do before.
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Give it up old man, we all know ur a fag already.
First people here busts his sac for not backing up his claims. Finally, and I mean finally, at 69, he's taking up the challenge and giving it go. And already he's told to give it up.
Always a no win on GetBig.
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You will never do it.
That's the spirit.
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The Olympia is over so time for some fun. People have asked who I have trained? Only myself. That is sufficient to demonstrate a principle. The typical bodybuilder cannot accept, comprehend, or acknowledge that something new might be possible in hypertrophy training. You literally have to rethink the notions of recovery and soreness and how they affect maximum growth of muscles. If you refuse to allow new concepts then of course you will scoff at the attempt to build large muscles at an advanced age. It is possible and I will demonstrate this to the Flotsam.
We've had our differences, many quite heated, but I always respect someone who steps up and attempts to back up his claims. I know you already know this but in life when someone tries to do something very difficult, maybe even bordering on impossible, you will always, ALWAYS, have people that will try to bring you down. Bring you down to their level. The level where they never try anything. Never take any real risks. Put themselves on the line. Just pretty much go through the motions of life as a perennial bench warmer.
Win or lose at least you know you stepped up. No regrets and "if onlys" on your death bed.
Team Basile!
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Assbruise.
I enjoy slapping the old coot around from time to time as much as anyone here, however this has me intrigued....Vince I'd suggest you start a log on the training log board so you can post updated pics, your training and diet regimen, etc. Should be interesting to see the results IF you can stick with it.
A rare glimpse of maturity on this thread and an example that despite all our differences we're still all GetBiggers.
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My dad have better arm than yours without training ;D
So you must have fantastic arms since you actually train. Why don't you post a pic to inspire us.
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I`m here to motivate you Vince! One question my friend, why are you only training arms?
Well, I won't take credit but he has been boasting for sometime now, years actually, about his DOMS theory. I've always called him out that he has no proof. Not on him or anybody us. Though he doesn't want to admit it, as he feels age is no barrier, I believe it is a very daunting task to try to undergo a full body Casey Viator type transformation. I'm a lot younger than he is but I'm still old. And though I've been training consistently doing something like legs, squatting with weights on you shoulders and doing it like you mean it, really takes it toll. I can only imagine what it would be like for someone idle for many years. So I suggested to just take a single muscle group, one not so systemically taxing, like arms, and see where it takes you.
My belief and hope is that when you see progress you will expand to other muscle groups. The worse that can happen is that he will not achieve his circa 1970s condition but maybe it will get him back in the weight room. It's win/win for him.
Team Basile!
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My grandpa too (RIP), he never worked out, just yard work.
So what? My arms are better than yours and I'm 51 years old and probably at least 20 years older than you. And I do just two sets per week for bis (one drop set on barbell curls and one set single Scott curls). What's your point?
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Maybe the title of this thread should be changed....
Place limitations on just yourself. Leave it others to break out of the huddled masses.
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The Olympia is over so time for some fun. People have asked who I have trained? Only myself. That is sufficient to demonstrate a principle. The typical bodybuilder cannot accept, comprehend, or acknowledge that something new might be possible in hypertrophy training. You literally have to rethink the notions of recovery and soreness and how they affect maximum growth of muscles. If you refuse to allow new concepts then of course you will scoff at the attempt to build large muscles at an advanced age. It is possible and I will demonstrate this to the Flotsam.
You are utterly full of shit....if you think anyone believes the fucking drivel you post you need to think again.
a 70 year old man is going to demonstrate new levels of hypertrophy training.....That's rich ::) ::)
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I am starting with arms only in stage one. The multiple maximum sets will induce the whole upper body to grow. I will soon add legs. You see, even Adam is questioning basic principles. I tell people here that some beliefs held by almost all bodybuilders are false. You do NOT have to train all body parts yet can still make gains in non-target muscles.
The indirect theory I believe is nonsense. I remember an experiment they did on some skinny kid who they put on that milk and 20 rep squatting program. And squats was all he did. His legs did get bigger as did his arms. But this has more to do with simply gaining weight. People often get bigger limbs as they gain weight no matter what they do. There may even be a marginal increase in muscle mass in the non targeted area. But the increase is trivial and ends quickly. It is extremely difficult for conditioned athlete to add my muscle mass to his arms. Doing just squats will have zero effect on his arms and they will actually shrink if the arm training program is discontinued.
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You are utterly full of shit....if you think anyone believes the fucking drivel you post you need to think again.
a 70 year old man is going to demonstrate new levels of hypertrophy training.....That's rich ::) ::)
It's true. Nobody believes it. By why not encourage him to find out for himself? If he fails this will finally shut him up and rethink his theories. If he succeeds, you never know, he will revolutionize hypertrophy training.
The guy is back in the gym doing something. He has been criticized for years for not training. Now he is. Leave it at that if it's too difficult to encourage him.
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Still playing the mass game going into his 70's; this is a man who has his priorities in order!
What should someone retired and 70 years old be doing? What do you plan to do when you are 70?
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So what? My arms are better than yours and I'm 51 years old and probably at least 20 years older. And I do just two sets per week for bis (one drop set on barbell curls and one set single Scott curls). What's your point?
Beautiful arm Pellius.
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lmao
only training arms ::)
lamo at people who train nothing.
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dj181 already tried this bullshit.
He failed and he learned something. You notice he keeps his mouth shut now lecturing us on the proper way to train. It was a still a win for him and god knows a win for us. His claims and boasts, and the way he would say it, was grating to say the least.
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in 10 weeks, 20 weeks, 30 weeks.... youll look the same. old without drugs is futile
How much have you improve in the last 10, 20, 30 weeks? How about from last year of the year before? What kind of shape are you in now?
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the "experiment"
..."i will show all of you!!!!"
Many throughout history have accomplished much because they were put down so much. Nothing wrong, and often more motivating, than proving the naysayers wrong.
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Beautiful arm Pellius.
LOL!
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It's true. Nobody believes it. By why not encourage him to find out for himself? If he fails this will finally shut him up and rethink his theories. If he succeeds, you never know, he will revolutionize hypertrophy training.
The problem is he will finagle it to conclude that he succeeded regardless of what actually happens.
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The problem is he will finagle it to conclude that he succeeded regardless of what actually happens.
So you think it would be better for him not to even try? Not to even train anymore so we can continue to give him shit for that because you can already see the outcome.
Maybe so. We will see. Of course I believe he will fail. He, or someone else, will post a pic of him in 1970 with his most recent one and it will be obvious to any rational human being that he did not equal his condition let alone surpass it. If he insists otherwise we now have clear documentation that he is delusional and can no longer can be taken seriously. Not even given the benefit of the doubt. But he will improve to some degree simply by getting back into the gym. In that sense, he succeeded.
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So you think it would be better for him not to even try? Not to even train anymore so we can continue to give him shit for that because you can already see the outcome.
I think it would be better for him to actually post some baseline pics, stats, measurements, etc. and explanation of what he's actually doing training and diet-wise. All we are going off of here is an arm shot after he's already been working out for a month.
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I think it would be better for him to actually post some baseline pics, stats, measurements, etc. and explanation of what he's actually doing training and diet-wise. All we are going off of here is an arm shot after he's already been working out for a month.
Yes, it would be better for him to do that. It would be better for him to do a lot of things. It can always be better. But in his case I'm just looking at going from nothing to something. And it has not been a month. I think two weeks at the most.
In the end there will be a before and after. Or he will quit. Either way the matter will be put to rest.
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I don`t expect anyone to believe anything they don`t want to.
good.
then you won't be disappointed.
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good.
then you won't be disappointed.
I would remain indifferent either way.
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Vince Basile,
How about competing in the Mr. Getbig?
Me, you, Jason Genova, Johnny Falcon etc...
I think it would be a great show.
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The Olympia is over so time for some fun. People have asked who I have trained? Only myself. That is sufficient to demonstrate a principle. The typical bodybuilder cannot accept, comprehend, or acknowledge that something new might be possible in hypertrophy training. You literally have to rethink the notions of recovery and soreness and how they affect maximum growth of muscles. If you refuse to allow new concepts then of course you will scoff at the attempt to build large muscles at an advanced age. It is possible and I will demonstrate this to the Flotsam.
You've been on my case for years about how I train clients and now you admit that you've not trained anyone except yourself??..... ::)
Don't know what's more surprising...you picking the judges for your Mr Canada win, being a hypocrite regarding steroids when you popped dianabol like tic tacs, or this.....
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If you remember, I was able to work with NASA, offer input and test prior to its development and No, you cannot have one.
http://dvice.com/archives/2010/11/elastic-gravity.php
(http://dvice.com/assets_c/2010/11/suit-thumb-550xauto-50479.jpg)
Elastic gravity suits keep astronauts strong and sexy
Spending extended time in space can also be dangerous. Besides the inevitable meteor showers and hostile aliens, astronauts also have to contend with things that are harder to defend against, like slowly losing bone mass. A new elastic jumpsuit may be able to help astronauts stay healthy, and keep them looking like superheroes while doing it.
Here on Earth, our bodies are constantly fighting against gravity to keep us upright. This takes a lot of work, as you may have noticed. In space, where gravity isn't a factor, your body doesn't have to work nearly as hard, and it gets lazy. Over time, astronauts lose both muscle tone and bone mass, which can cause problems when they come back home. To help solve this problem (or at least, mitigate it), MIT's Man-Vehicle Laboratory has developed the Gravity Loading Countermeasure Skinsuit, which is actually able to simulate the pull of gravity in weightless environments.
The concept behind the suit is simple: it's too small. The suit itself is made of an elastic material, with foot stirrups. It stretches to fit, but as it does so, the material exerts a force that pulls your shoulders down towards your feet. As far as your bones and muscles can tell, it's a sort of artificial gravity, and it should help to reduce the 2% bone mass that astronauts lose for each month they spend in orbit. This will be especially important for long stays aboard the ISS, and of course for trips to Mars and beyond.
The suit has been tested here on Earth and is apparently quite comfortable and doesn't restrict movement, meaning that it can be worn while working, relaxing or exercising. And let's be honest: sooner or later, astronauts are all going to have to start wearing matching jumpsuits anyway, because that's how we'll know it's the future.
wow you are an amazing getbigger I bet you also build nasa spaceships and you have already being to the moon, could you please update me when you land on mars.
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Increasing size one bodypart at a time. You liked my idea. Good luck Vince.
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I am reading comments that indicate the typical beliefs held like a religion by the Flotsam. I have been slack over the years and so I didn't train much. The relative idleness is what allowed me to discover that I didn't need to train all upper body parts. Doing just the arms was sufficient for the whole upper body to grow. That surprised me. Few people know this. Now, not any old training will do but consistent DOMS hypertrophy training will. Believe it or not.
I have 53 years doing bodybuilding. I have a masters degree from Sydney University where I studied the Philosophy of Science. This experiment is simply putting my conjectures into practice. I am making bold claims. To me these claims are obvious because I have demonstrated my hypotheses on my own body. I know I can grow larger muscles and do so rapidly. I will boldly go where no man has ventured before. I will demonstrate the closest we can get chemical free to a Fountain of Youth.
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I have been slack over the years and so I didn't train much.
I have 53 years doing bodybuilding.
???
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I am reading comments that indicate the typical beliefs held like a religion by the Flotsam. I have been slack over the years and so I didn't train much. The relative idleness is what allowed me to discover that I didn't need to train all upper body parts. Doing just the arms was sufficient for the whole upper body to grow. That surprised me. Few people know this. Now, not any old training will do but consistent DOMS hypertrophy training will. Believe it or not.
I have 53 years doing bodybuilding. I have a masters degree from Sydney University where I studied the Philosophy of Science. This experiment is simply putting my conjectures into practice. I am making bold claims. To me these claims are obvious because I have demonstrated my hypotheses on my own body. I know I can grow larger muscles and do so rapidly. I will boldly go where no man has ventured before. I will demonstrate the closest we can get chemical free to a Fountain of Youth.
I think you should enter the Mr. Getbig with Me, Jason Genova, Johnny Falcon et al. Remember backday entered and he is in his 60s.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2h35yqa.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2hx6o2c.jpg)
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wow you are an amazing getbigger I bet you also build nasa spaceships and you have already being to the moon, could you please update me when you land on mars.
He's still on his way, he'll get there when the medication wares off. LOL
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If I can succeed in this endeavour it will transcend Getbig. Online experts have been scoffing at my ideas for years. I published these ideas in Ironman Magazine in 2000 and 2001. It is time to do an extended trial of DOMS training.
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Lol at Goodrum making a comment. Neither he nor Coach and even TA have the Vocabulary required in this field.
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What if you fail, sir?
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Lol at Goodrum making a comment. Neither he nor Coach and even TA have the Vocabulary required in this field.
Shall we play online Scrabble?
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A little more than 10 years ago, when I was in the prime of my lifting career, I tried an arm program that purported to add an inch in size in 24 hours. Being young, ambitious and looking for every possible way to get huge, my lifting partner and I set out to tackle this insane nine-hour, 90-set workout.
In short, we performed three triceps/biceps supersets every hour on the hour and two supersets on the half-hour, from 9 a.m. till 6 p.m. Combined with an elaborate eating plan, serious muscle soreness, nausea, light-headedness and overall malaise, we proceeded to train like maniacs to gain that inch. And we did! In fact, two weeks later, we still had nearly three-quarters of an inch remaining.
A few thousand hours of schooling, research and training later, I decided it was time to ask why, and more importantly, to see if we could replicate the results in a lab setting while using a less-intensive program. We decided that to do this routine in about half the time, we'd need to do two-thirds of the original volume to produce a similar effect. I and four other men, regular lifters ages 22-35, took on the daunting task of doing 60 sets in five hours. This is our journey.
LET THE MADNESS BEGIN
We exercised at 20-minute intervals, manipulating the number of sets and the muscles' time under tension each workout within each hour of the program. We chose only barbell and dumbbell exercises; since no one except the extremely dedicated (or insane) wants to hang out in a gym for five hours, this bad boy -- still five hours long -- is built for home. You'll need a bench, a set of dumbbells, a barbell and assorted weight plates.
Each workout is a superset (see "The 1-Inch-in-a-Day Arm Routine"). Don't rest between exercises for more than the time it takes to put one weight down and pick another up; take about 90 seconds of rest between supersets. It's critical that you move quickly so you have time to rest between workouts. The first group of exercises takes nearly nine minutes to complete, allowing only 11 minutes to prep for the second group of exercises; by the end of the day, those 11 minutes will feel like 11 seconds!
Control your rep speed as much as possible, and employ cheating for only the last rep or two. Choosing the amount of weight to use can be tricky, but follow these general rules of thumb: For each exercise, choose a weight with which you can get the prescribed number of reps and maybe one or two more, but no more than that. As a starting point, you could use 70% of your one-rep max for each move. Also realize that you may have to drop your poundages as the day progresses, but don't ever go so light that the lift is no longer challenging.
After the first hour, we were all up three-quarters of an inch relaxed, a half-inch flexed. Each hour, we re-recorded measurements. After our final sets, we were up an average of three-quarters of an inch flexed and 1 full inch relaxed. Of course, by the end of the program, brushing our teeth, scratching our backs and anything requiring the arms to flex less than 90 degrees was next to impossible. In fact, our arms were basically stuck at an isometric hold of about 120 degrees for the rest of the day.
Twenty-four hours later we measured again. Results for most had not changed, as we averaged a half- to three-quarters of an inch across the board both flexed and un-flexed. Good news, though: We'd all returned to almost full range of motion. By the end of the week, with no workouts in between, the group averaged between a quarter- to half-inch gain.
SCIENCE WEIGHS IN
Other scientific studies regarding this kind of workout simply don't exist. In the scientific community, the only people crazy enough to try this were in the lab with me that day. Yet some explanations could theoretically be responsible for the gains.
Let's first look at mechanisms for muscle hypertrophy. We know that muscle size increases by increasing the thickness of the myofilaments, or protein strands, within the contractile portion of the muscle. We also know that the number of myofibrils, the contractile structure made up of myofilaments, increase with training. Some research has shown that it may also be possible for muscle fibers themselves to split, known as hyperplasia, after which the new fibers increase in size, although this hasn't been well documented in human beings. Lastly, the entire cellular structure -- all the proteins, cell walls and other material that supports and anchors the contractile machine itself -- increases in overall size and thickness via training.
So we know we can increase fiber thickness, but can it be done as quickly as on this program? Technically, no.
SWELL GAINS
The most logical explanation for our gains lies in the way the body handles injury to a cell. When a muscle is damaged, it's swarmed with new satellite cells that go to work rebuilding the tissue. At the same time, swelling begins to occur from increased water retention by the muscle fiber itself. This water retention appears to stay for a few days or more with very heavy resistance training. In fact, participants in a 1998 training study were reported to maintain tissue swelling for up to seven days post-exercise! Over a long enough period, however, the cell would surely return to normal size.
Thus, swelling seems to be the culprit, but the story doesn't end there. The permanent effect -- the reason we seem to have been able to hold part of our gains (one-quarter- to a half an inch) for several months at the time of this writing -- is from our continued training. Since returning to our normal training programs, we've maintained the size, meaning we've maintained the overall volume of the tissue simply because we began another breakdown process before the muscle fibers completely returned to normal. In the long run, this may pose a problem, as effects of the swelling-repairing process can overcome your gains if you don't strike the proper balance of training and recuperation. That's a matter of ongoing scientific discovery.
In the meantime, I would suggest attempting this program only at three-month intervals, taking a full week off before resuming any exercise in which the arms play a significant role. Needless to say, don't train if you still feel pain or tenderness or show marked bruising or swelling.
An inch in a day? As farfetched as it may seem, it actually is possible. I lived it -- and now it's your turn to try it for yourself. M&F
David Sandler, MS, CSCS, CCS, is a professor of exercise physiology and strength and conditioning at Florida International University, where he directs the strength and conditioning curriculum. Sandler is also a founding partner in StrengthPro, a Miami-based strength-consulting firm: www.strengthpro.com
The 1-Inch-in-a-Day Arm Routine
Time* Exercise Sets Reps
0 Standing Barbell Curl 3 8
-- superset with --
Seated Two-Hand Overhead Dumbbell Extension** 3 8
20 Seated Alternating Dumbbell Curl 2 12
-- superset with --
Two-Arm Dumbbell Kickback 2 12
40 "Crazy 6's" Barbell Curl*** 1 6
-- superset with --
"Crazy 6's" Lying Barbell French Press 1 6
Repeat this every hour for five hours total.
Rest 90 seconds between supersets.
* Time refers to the part of each hour the listed exercises are performed. For instance, "0" could be 2 p.m., "20" would be 2:20 p.m. and "40" would be 2:40 p.m.
** Use a low-back bench or chair if you have one; otherwise sit at the end of a flat bench.
*** Crazy 6's use a six-second positive and six-second negative for six reps (total of 72 seconds of tension on the muscles).
Nutritional Support
As for the eating plan we followed during our insane five-hour, 60-set workout, it was just as crazy. We ate once per hour, and these were our five meals:
Meal 1: 1 banana, plus mix together: 8 oz. ground turkey, white rice, garlic-basil tomato sauce and your choice of spices
Meal 2: Same as Meal 1
Meal 3: 4 hard-boiled egg whites + 1 banana
Meal 4: 6 oz. fat-free cottage cheese mixed with your choice of fruit
Meal 5: 40 g whey protein + 6 fat-free Oreo cookies (a reward for the effort!)
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Lol at Goodrum making a comment. Neither he nor Coach and even TA have the Vocabulary required in this field.
And what field might that be Vince? I have limited time to go through five pages of bullshit. I already told you, anytime you think you're ready for a debate on training just say the word.
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If I can succeed in this endeavour it will transcend Getbig. Online experts have been scoffing at my ideas for years. I published these ideas in Ironman Magazine in 2000 and 2001. It is time to do an extended trial of DOMS training.
The time for arguing with the "flotsam" is over, put up or shut up.
And pellius.......my 1/8 negroid brother.......wtf is up with all those meltdowns posts? Bad day in paradise? ;D
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What if you fail, sir?
Then he will know he is wrong. That's how we progress. We try -- fail, try -- fail... but, sometimes, somewhere, someone succeeds. The important thing is that you try. You put yourself out there. Test and challenge yourself. You do something. That's called living.
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He's still on his way, he'll get there when the medication wares off. LOL
LOL!
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The time for arguing with the "flotsam" is over, put up or shut up.
And pellius.......my 1/8 negroid brother.......wtf is up with all those meltdowns posts? Bad day in paradise? ;D
I think pellius set a record there for consecutive uninterrupted chain of posts.
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The time for arguing with the "flotsam" is over, put up or shut up.
And pellius.......my 1/8 negroid brother.......wtf is up with all those meltdowns posts? Bad day in paradise? ;D
Meltdown use to mean being angry and frustrated. None of my posts are done with any anger or frustration. But if you defend someone or yourself. If your posts are longer than one "generation nothingness" attention span sentence then it is a meltdown. It's like word inflation. Use and over use a particular word or term over and over again and it just becomes meaningless.
People have been giving shit to Basile for years on end. Finally he steps up. I respect that and want to encourage him and want others to do as well. But you always have the naysayers trying to bring someone down. "You'll fail.", "My grandpa has better arms." "He'll just make excuses."
It's hard enough trying to back up you're shit. That should be obvious here where all these people love to make claims and brag about themselves without ever backing it up. (Think: suckymuscle).
It's not made any easier when you have people trying to drag you down. It reminds me of bullies. People who just bash and pick on others out of pure spite. I've always hated bullies. So that's where I come in. Defending the persecuted who is harming no one. Giving credit where credit is due. Just doing my small part to make this world a better place. A better place for you, and me, and all of mankind. To be able to stand before God and say, "Yes, because of me the world was just a little bit better place. And that I am worthy of eternal salvation and my rightful place in Heaven."
Also, I had an uncharacteristic burst of ambition recently and took some recent pics to begin documenting my inevitable physical decline as the years wear on and needed an excuse to post a pic of my arm (up from just under 15 and a half to stretching the tape a few ticks past that. Arm don status is within reach).
Speaking of which -- 23 inch quads and 16 inch calves in your face bitches!
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Meltdown use to mean being angry and frustrated. None of my posts are done with any anger or frustration. But if you defend someone or yourself. If your posts are longer than one "generation nothingness" attention span sentence then it is a meltdown. It's like word inflation. Use and over use a particular word or term over and over again and it just becomes meaningless.
People have been giving shit to Basile for years on end. Finally he steps up. I respect that and want to encourage him and want others to do as well. But you always have the naysayers trying to bring someone down. "You'll fail.", "My grandpa has better arms." "He'll just make excuses."
It's hard enough trying to back up you're shit. That should be obvious here where all these people love to make claims and brag about themselves without ever backing it up. (Think: suckymuscle).
It's not made any easier when you have people trying to drag you down. It reminds me of bullies. People who just bash and pick on others out of pure spite. I've always hated bullies. So that's where I come in. Defending the persecuted who is harming no one. Giving credit where credit is due. Just doing my small part to make this world a better place. A better place for you, and me, and all of mankind. To be able to stand before God and say, "Yes, because of me the world was just a little bit better place. And that I am worthy of eternal salvation and my rightful place in Heaven."
Also, I had an uncharacteristic burst of ambition recently and took some recent pics to begin documenting my inevitable physical decline as the years wear on and needed an excuse to post a pic of my arm (up from just under 15 and a half to stretching the tape a few ticks past that. Arm don status is within reach).
Speaking of which -- 23 inch quads and 16 inch calves in your face bitches!
While no posts were done with anger or malice, the sheer volume of individual posts suggests rage and emotion above and beyond the norm.
As far as Basile goes, like I said, I've given him tons of shit myself, but if he's serious and willing to put forth the effort, I support his cause........however, if he shits the bed and half asses the attempt or quits, I will be first in line to pop his rubber ducky and send him packing!!
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Let me see if I can boil all of this drivel down ...
I have been slack over the years and so I didn't train much.
OK, and now you're going to put in some serious training and expect to grow? Wow, groundbreaking.
The relative idleness is what allowed me to discover that I didn't need to train all upper body parts. Doing just the arms was sufficient for the whole upper body to grow.
So you're just going to train arms and claim the rest of your upper body is going to grow?
Fair enough.
How about posting some before and after shots of your upper body so we can all see how your experiment turns out.
Good luck in your experiment.
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I think pellius set a record there for consecutive uninterrupted chain of posts.
I was late to thread so I started commenting as I was working my way through it.
I'm very pleased to see Basile putting himself out there like that. And I think this is not uneventful. He succeeds, fails or quits -- all will pretty much settle this nearly decade old business. And you never know. If by some miracle he should succeed then all the sheep that just like to pile on will be singing a different tune.
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While no posts were done with anger or malice, the sheer volume of individual posts suggests rage and emotion above and beyond the norm.
As far as Basile goes, like I said, I've given him tons of shit myself, but if he's serious and willing to put forth the effort, I support his cause........however, if he shits the bed and half asses the attempt or quits, I will be first in line to pop his rubber ducky and send him packing!!
I just knew someone would eventually posts that pic. >:(
AND I AM NOT FILLED WITH RAGE AND EMOTION GODDAMMIT!
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I just knew someone would eventually posts that pic. >:(
AND I AM NOT FILLED WITH RAGE AND EMOTION GODDAMMIT!
The better one is where the sign says "fat bastard" or something like that ;D
I think he should start a progress thread, either on the training board or The Positive Board, what do you think?
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Pellius is giving me a fair go. That is all I require.
I tried the all-day training twice and gained 1/4" the first time. Two other guys didn't gain anything. I would do that differently now......continue maximum supersets for up to 12 hours. Since I can't risk injuring myself I won't embark on such a program.
Inflammation occurs and is part of rapid growth. Strength increases along with the size which indicates that remodeling is occurring. I have found a shortcut to hypertrophy and should be appreciated. The resident experts cannot refute my claims, and even laugh. If I avoid injury, success is inevitable because I am merely triggering physiological responses. When DOMS is sustained rapid growth must follow.
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I , for one, want to see Mr. Basile in great shape once again. He undoubtedly would surface in some sort of muscle publication if he carried this from start to finish.
I also feel it is Getbig`s duty to push him to remain steadfast to his training as he needs us as a motivating factor even if he does not readily acknowledge this fact.
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Wishing you the best Vince.
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A little more than 10 years ago, when I was in the prime of my lifting career, I tried an arm program that purported to add an inch in size in 24 hours. Being young, ambitious and looking for every possible way to get huge, my lifting partner and I set out to tackle this insane nine-hour, 90-set workout.
This is fascinating. The first time I've heard anything even remotely close is in Arnold's first book where he said they'd go up into the mountains and spend a weekend just squatting. Didn't give any details. The only other time I've heard this is by Vince Basile himself. Speculated on this many times on this board and on others.
Very interesting. Even though this goes against everything I believe vis-a-vis training I might give this a try on my next vacation.
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I am quite confident that I can train daily. Arms every 3rd day. Legs another, and shoulders, chest and back on the last. It should be interesting to get most of the body sore. The elation of growing rapidly is sufficient reward for the hard work.
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The better one is where the sign says "fat bastard" or something like that ;D
I think he should start a progress thread, either on the training board or The Positive Board, what do you think?
Keep things on the G/O because it's the only board that gets consistent traffic. BTW, we have a "Positive" board? LOL! What the hell is that and why? Are there Life Coaches there?
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Keep things on the G/O because it's the only board that gets consistent traffic. BTW, we have a "Positive" board? LOL! What the hell is that and why? Are there Life Coaches there?
It's just moderated bbing discussion, no personal attacks allowed.
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I am quite confident that I can train daily. Arms every 3rd day. Legs another, and shoulders, chest and back on the last. It should be interesting to get most of the body sore. The elation of growing rapidly is sufficient reward for the hard work.
In your first post, you said you'd train ONLY arms and your upper body would also grow as a result.
Now you're talking about training shoulders, chest and back.
Sorry, I have no idea what this thread is about any more other than an older guy training hard.
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I , for one, want to see Mr. Basile in great shape once again. He undoubtedly would surface in some sort of muscle publication if he carried this from start to finish.
I also feel it is Getbig`s duty to push him to remain steadfast to his training as he needs us as a motivating factor even if he does not readily acknowledge this fact.
QFT
Though I don't know if he "needs" us -- but it would help. But then again, he wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for all the shit we gave him on that "Dumbest..." thread so you may have a point, Apenis.
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Good luck, Vince
Arms looking solid already
(http://www.electricianallround.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/thumbs-up1.jpg)
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If I am going to look like a bodybuilder I need to train shoulders directly. I need to firm up my chest. My lats seem to grow when my triceps are also growing. This is stage three, possibly a few months away. Legs will be commenced soon. As men age their thighs shrink. I have to reverse this and also trigger massive hypertrophy in my body when my legs are growing. That should stimulate the brain to release more growth hormone. My calves are 17 3/4 without any training.
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If I am going to look like a bodybuilder I need to train shoulders directly. I need to firm up my chest. My lats seem to grow when my triceps are also growing. This is stage three, possibly a few months away. Legs will be commenced soon. As men age their thighs shrink. I have to reverse this and also trigger massive hypertrophy in my body when my legs are growing. That should stimulate the brain to release more growth hormone. My calves are 17 3/4 without any training.
Vince,
Can you post some of your pictures from the past during your competitive days. I would also like to be directed to your website of photography as I personally think you have a wonderful talent in this field. Also, Jezebelle wanted me to wish you the best as she used to enjoy your pictures.
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Vince,
Can you post some of your pictures from the past during your competitive days. I would also like to be directed to your website of photography as I personally think you have a wonderful talent in this field. Also, Jezebelle wanted me to wish you the best as she used to enjoy your pictures.
She didn't happen to say anything about me? (no disrespect)
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She didn't happen to say anything about me? (no disrespect)
Do you have an email address where we can send you some pics?
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Dudes a queer.
THE BEEF
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Bodybuilders are a stubborn lot. When they achieve some success they believe they are experts and can personally train others to achieve similar results. Going from the intermediate stage to a more advanced one is not at all easy. The vast majority of guys training in gyms are either not growing or are growing imperceptibly slow. To me that is a waste of time and effort. Why not stimulate your muscles to grow each and every time you train? That is my goal and I succeed every time. It remains to be seen how far this process can be sustained.
Here is a photo taken on my 69th birthday after my workout.
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plenty of people have done this arm experiment out of the sheer vanity of wanting bigger arms i.e. training arms everyday ;D
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You look like shit.
Hope this helps.
putting down a 70 year old guy who is just doing what he enjoys in life, nice man.
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Where is Pumpster these days?
Maybe the two could make it a *joint* effort?
Gotta see those abs to make sure. Let's see the "before and after's"
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putting down a 70 year old guy who is just doing what he enjoys in life, nice man.
LOL, nice.
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putting down a 70 year old guy who is just doing what he enjoys in life, nice man.
You're a good man, Flint. For a Jew that is. ;D
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Bodybuilders are a stubborn lot. When they achieve some success they believe they are experts and can personally train others to achieve similar results. Going from the intermediate stage to a more advanced one is not at all easy. The vast majority of guys training in gyms are either not growing or are growing imperceptibly slow. To me that is a waste of time and effort. Why not stimulate your muscles to grow each and every time you train? That is my goal and I succeed every time. It remains to be seen how far this process can be sustained.
Here is a photo taken on my 69th birthday after my workout.
Happy Birthday, Vince. You have some balls coming on here and facing the Thunder Dome. No matter what others think of you you are definitely a GetBig legend.
Team Basile.
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Pellius, you and I take a lot of crap here. Sort of a permanent 'initiation'. I mean, Goodrum deserves the crap he gets but stellar guys like us should be respected here. When we
don't respond to the taunts and ridicule they step up the nasty campaigns.
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pellius and vince make quite the cute couple ::)
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Well, yeah. Truckers with C.B radios are the same. If they don't respond to the nasty call-outs from home base-stations eventually the callers give up and stop.
It takes "self contro"l, something of which most here know nothing about. After all, it is a *bodybuilding* forum where folks are taught moment by moment how NOT to exert self control (in ANY endeavor)
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Pellius, you and I take a lot of crap here. Sort of a permanent 'initiation'. I mean, Goodrum deserves the crap he gets but stellar guys like us should be respected here. When we
don't respond to the taunts and ridicule they step up the nasty campaigns.
Oh give me a fucking break, Basile, with your holier than thou attitude. Fact is that you never accomplished anything in the sport of bodybuilding other than winning a show in which you hand picked your own judges and crowned yourself Mr Canada. The only real contest you ever did was the Mr Australia where you placed dead last. Along with a gym that you opened up using your daddy's money and filming Lee Priest's father's funeral, that pretty much sums up your 69 years of existence on this planet.
Then you have the nerve to criticize my training methods or Coach's when you just admitted have never trained anyone in your entire fucking life. You shouldn't wonder why no one doesn't take you seriously.
As far as publishing pictures in a magazine are concerned, you couldn't make the back pages of AARP. Hope that helps.
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"He's got
Betty Davis Nasser eyes" ;D
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I congratulate Vince on ALWAYS getting so many responses. Thats what forums are for.
You're an odd dude Vince but good luck in your quest for larger fat arms.
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Vince, I am eagerly following your experiment. Put these keyboard warriors to shame!
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This is the condition I am trying to duplicate by the time I turn 70 in one year. I know my calves can be bigger and better. That much is certain. It remains to be seen whether I can get the rest of me better. The first part of the project is to get my arms significantly bigger and I should know if that is possible within 2 months. I have been training now for about 2 weeks.
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pellius and vince make quite the cute couple ::)
Shut the fuck up you little bitch.
Awesome handle BTW, "big"mc (oh brother, how fucking lame can you be? How old are you anyway kunt?)
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Shut the fuck up you little bitch.
Awesome handle BTW, "big"mc (oh brother, how fucking lame can you be? How old are you anyway kunt?)
Still trying to own kids 30 years younger than you. ::)
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Go, Vince!
I pinched a nerve and probably had a class-A muscle tear (I suspect in my right triceps) almost a year ago. Even now, my right side pressing strength is compromised. It's a shame, too, because I was stronger than I'd ever been :|
Anyway, training has become almost a chore. I'm 33 and I've been doing this almost 20 years. After awhile, without the ability to make any progress (apart from getting lean again), I barely care. And why should I? I recently took almost 2 months off the gym and lost very little size or strength. One or two hard workouts and I look about as good as ever have at this weight.
So, you inspired me. I also decided to start training arms every third day. But man, you must have the endurance of a marathoner. In my first Basile Arms-Only session,
I was somewhat limited in equipment (one adjustable dumbbell). So, I did very strict one-armed curls and one-armed overhead triceps extensions. I aimed to get 15 reps on the first set of each and keep on until I'd done at least six sets of each exercise, or 12 sets total.
I overestimated my curling strength a little, so the first set saw me curl 90 for 13 R, then x12 L (weights are exaggerated so I don't sound like a twink). I went on to the triceps movement, really emphasizing a deep stretch.
Then came biceps round 2. Holy shit! In spite of a decent amount of rest, that "90 lber." limited me to 7 with the right arm and 6 with the left. I had to raise my elbow a bit to get those last reps, too. By the time round 3 came around, I struggled like crazy to get just 5 reps with each arm. Triceps saw an even greater drop: my first set, with a comparatively modest 60 lbs. (coughcoughBULLSHITcoughc ough) :D, I managed 25 reps with my good arm. The second set? Down to 12 -- and the third, a very hard-fought 6.
Obviously these are not the ideal exercises, and I do think exercise selection can make a measurable difference. But I tend to disagree with you in as much as one kind of curl or triceps movement is an order of magnitude or more effective than all the rest. Dips of both varieties, close-grip bench, some kinds of pulley extensions ... they all seem about the same to me in the long run, and I'm not talking about periods when I've "used" either. It might strike you as overly simplistic, but really, a curl's a curl, and a triceps extension is more or less as effective as any variation thereon. (I am not talking about what's easiest on the elbows, mind you. That is a separate issue IMO.)
I've done two workouts so far. The first resulted in awesome DOMS, but that's no surprise: of course I'll be sore after not training for a few weeks. My second workout was a little shorter; in lieu of three sets to failure, I threw in some post-failure techniques and did two sets. My arms are sore now, 48 hours later, but not very. Also notable is the fact that after three days' rest, I was barely, if at all, stronger than in the first workout.
I'll keep at it for awhile. I will note a few things:
*I completely agree with you about focusing on a couple of bodyparts at a time, at least in the context of stimulating maximum growth in those muscle groups. Apart from obvious things like body mechanics, there's a reason that the guys who bench the most weight aren't also the best squatters and deadlifters: training all three hard is simply too much for most people to manage in a given training cycle.
*I'm unconvinced that "big muscles are meant to move maximum resistance for many sets." Maybe that's true of a predominantly slow-twitch guy, but look at my example. Yeah, I made up those poundages for fun, but the very real drop-off is significant -- and no amount of "conditioning work" is going to change that. It's how I've always been; do a set to momentary failure, and -- pardon my language -- my strength is more or less fucked for the bodypart trained. Even a 10 minute rest interval and second set will see me go from a 315x4 incline (real number, when I was at my best) to 225 for a very hard-fought 9. Ordinarily, if fresh, I could incline 225 for at least 18 reps, 20 if I bounced it off my chest like a spaz. That is a BIG difference. And I will say that I am not a small guy. Fat by bodybuilding standards, but still small by no means.
But I think you are onto something when it comes to those last, really hard reps that we struggle to complete. Lots of intense contractions seems to translate to growth.
As such, I submit that the old sets and reps paradigm is outdated. Instead of doing X sets of Y continuous reps, why not pick a modestly heavy weight -- say, something that limits you to ten -- and, a'la the breathing squat program, do it for twenty or more?
Put another way, say you're doing a curl with your 10 RM. Grab the weight, strictly curl it and perform the negative smoothly. Put it down. Take a couple of breaths. Pick it back up and repeat. As time goes along, you're permitted more deep breaths between repetitions. But the idea is to do as many reps as possible with a given weight before, even with the benefit of a 30 second or more breather, you just can't curl it again.
It seems to me such a method (which I more or less ripped off from the German PITT system) would permit far more intense contractions against a given weight than the standard old 5-6 sets of "do your best!" And I'm dubious such an arm workout could be successfully conducted every 72-96 hours. I figure I'd get weaker at that rate, with the possible caveat that switching through a pool of exercises, like Dante Trudell advocates, might mitigate that to the point that I could keep registering strength gains.
On that note, Vince, what do you say about a bigger muscle = a stronger muscle on an individual's basis? I submit that a drug-free fellow could train himself into the ground and be sore for six months on end, but if he's not stronger on a near workout-by-workout basis, he ain't gonna grow.
Again, I wish you the best of luck. You seem to be off to a good start :)
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go for it Vince
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TLDR
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TLDR
Short-attention span?
Ain't my fucking problem.
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To doriancutlerman. Exercise selection doesn't mean much when you are a beginner. At the intermediate stage it is more important. Beyond that it is paramount. Experience should tell you what the most effective exercises are. I see no point doing ineffective exercises. Most muscleheads do what the guys in the magazines do. How original. You have to find what exercises cause hypertrophy. Fooling around with all manner of techniques to stress the muscle is probably a waste of time. If it were than tricky then few people would ever get results.
The reps thing is something dismissed but is actually quite important. You will find a drop off after the 3rd set. You want to keep all sets over the 10 rep mark and perhaps better to get 15. Why? More pump and less risk of injury. Also, you will avoid cheating. If you cheat then the target muscle is not going to be stimulated properly and you won't get sore and you won't grow rapidly. More strict reps means the time under tension is increased. Going to your limit on each set will satisfy the intensity factor that is also necessary for hypertrophy. At least the sustained kind over a month or two.
The best triceps exercise that I have used is the lying triceps extensions. Nothing else comes close. So farting around doing overhead dumbbell work is not going to cause much growth. Good luck.
For the biceps it would help to have resistance on both supination and flexion. My machine does that. Dumbbell curls done the right way can also achieve something in that regard. Typical biceps machines do not.
The prescription for hypertrophy is something specific and physical. It isn't a matter of playing around with all manner of ideas wondering if perhaps this or perhaps that will work. If you have to do this you are lost.
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Pellius, you and I take a lot of crap here. Sort of a permanent 'initiation'. I mean, Goodrum deserves the crap he gets but stellar guys like us should be respected here. When we
don't respond to the taunts and ridicule they step up the nasty campaigns.
Keep pumping Vince, you help inpsire me to get my ass going. Thanks for posting the training blog I am enjoying it and the pics.
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Still trying to own kids 30 years younger than you. ::)
You have a problem with that? How old are you going to be before give up and become everybody's bitch?
Mind your own business little boy.
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Pellius, you make me laugh. If I got angry at every dork putting me down I would be hunting guys down all over the world! That is a waste of time. Praise and blame fall off me like rain from an umbrella.
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Short-attention span?
Ain't my fucking problem.
Don't quit no matter what. Even if you have to tone it down. When you quit you're only going down hill. And it's always harder to get back up when you get older. You may think you haven't changed when you take a few weeks off but you have. But it doesn't matter. Whether it's a few weeks or a few months eventually you'll start losing it. Nothing wrong with maintaining good condition. No one can expect to keep progressing indefinitely. You started at about the same age I did. So it's now a part of your life. You don't look at it as if you like it or hate it. You just do it because it's a part of you. Like brushing your teeth. You don't ask yourself whether you like it or not or if it stays white when you stop brushing -- you just do it.
You're 33 years old. You're still in your physical prime. Pick a routine and schedule that you can realistically do forever. I trained just twice a week (one day upper/one day lower)for years when I was heavy into Jiu-Jitsu competition. One can do fine on a twice a week program especially when the alternative is nothing and becoming a fat slob.
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Pellius, you make me laugh. If I got angry at every dork putting me down I would be hunting guys down all over the world! That is a waste of time. Praise and blame fall off me like rain from an umbrella.
Not for me. I like mixing it up. I'm worse in real life. You be surprise how cowardly these young punks are when you call them out.
And if I had the time and money I would hunt these guys down. I'd be like the White Kimbo. I'll be a YouTube legend. The worse that can happen is that I'll get my ass kicked and that never scared me. I'd love to show up at SquadFather's trailer park and stand in front of his door whistling "Pop Goes the Weasel."
I'm a fucking maniac! FIGHT ME!
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To doriancutlerman. Exercise selection doesn't mean much when you are a beginner. At the intermediate stage it is more important. Beyond that it is paramount. Experience should tell you what the most effective exercises are. I see no point doing ineffective exercises. Most muscleheads do what the guys in the magazines do. How original. You have to find what exercises cause hypertrophy. Fooling around with all manner of techniques to stress the muscle is probably a waste of time. If it were than tricky then few people would ever get results.
The reps thing is something dismissed but is actually quite important. You will find a drop off after the 3rd set. You want to keep all sets over the 10 rep mark and perhaps better to get 15. Why? More pump and less risk of injury. Also, you will avoid cheating. If you cheat then the target muscle is not going to be stimulated properly and you won't get sore and you won't grow rapidly. More strict reps means the time under tension is increased. Going to your limit on each set will satisfy the intensity factor that is also necessary for hypertrophy. At least the sustained kind over a month or two.
The best triceps exercise that I have used is the lying triceps extensions. Nothing else comes close. So farting around doing overhead dumbbell work is not going to cause much growth. Good luck.
For the biceps it would help to have resistance on both supination and flexion. My machine does that. Dumbbell curls done the right way can also achieve something in that regard. Typical biceps machines do not.
The prescription for hypertrophy is something specific and physical. It isn't a matter of playing around with all manner of ideas wondering if perhaps this or perhaps that will work. If you have to do this you are lost.
Awesome pic, Vince! Seriously. I'm so proud and happy that you're getting fire back. You may not look like Philsulina, Denise or Vicky Martinez but those pics are inspiring. No matter what happens don't quit. Even if it's just a few times a week it's better than nothing.
I do a similar movement for the tris but don't have the bench. On virtually all exercises using a bar I always take a thumbless grip. It gives my wrist more freedom of motion.
Team Basile!
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The critical thing for rapid hypertrophy is sustaining severe DOMS. If you can't do that then you won't be growing much. What to do about it? Well, you have to find something that results in more DOMS. If it is not present you might have to retrain before the 3rd day. We would hope you don't have to retrain daily! HST people recommend retraining every 48 hours and maybe even every 36 hours. They base this time schedule on research that indicates little protein building after that time frame. I discovered that my strength gains were optimal when I trained every 3rd day. Not the 2nd day or the 4th day but the 3rd day. I can't state for certain that hypertrophy follows the same time frame.
I worry about damage to connective tissue. That happened in my first DOMS experiment. I got sore elbows because I placed them on the benches like Larry Scott did. Nope, that friction causes damage to the sheath that goes over the elbow joint. Keep your elbows off all benches including biceps movements. Then I injured my Achilles tendons doing ballistic heel raises with 700 pounds for many, many 60 rep sets. Heck, that was painful but effective. Damage will occur if you sustain the ballistic movements. So, you have to find safe but effective movements. If you don't then you will fail trying to grow bigger than before.
I wondered if ever larger muscles required more effort. If if takes X amount of effort to build 17 inch arms does it take 2 times X to get them to 18? Then does it take 4 times as much to get them to 19? That would partly explain why few guys ever get 19 inch muscular arms. What a pity there is no research about these factors. Joe Weider made hundreds of millions from bodybuilding but his Weider Research Clinic was a sham. A pity he didn't do proper research that would have answered the many questions still unanswered in hypertrophy training.
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I have been designing and building equipment for my gym since 1975. The biceps-supinator machine is the only one in a gym in the universe that we know of. Golds Gym, Venice, doesn't have the lying triceps extension machine. Our gym has three of them and a modified Nautilus Triceps unit that allows you to do the lying movement.
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I have an engineering factory. How many bodybuilding champions have one? You need big machines to build gym equipment. Lathes, milling machines, radial drills, bandsaws, big welders, etc. I taught myself to use these machines. Building the biceps-supinator by myself was a challenge. I didn't feel competent to do the tool making of parts. Well, I bit the bullet and did it and was quite pleased with the result. When I installed it in my gym I found I had to make modifications. The machine has had 3 major modifications over the years. I used a lot of stainless steel because I wanted the machine to be durable and not corrode over time. The movement mimics doing dumbbell curls. You can do them together or one arm at a time. You can curl and supinate at the same time or do the movements separately. When you have exhausted the biceps doing curls you can do more via the supination twists. The workouts for biceps can be absolutely brutal.
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When you talk about recovery, like training each muscle group every X number of days, you're talking about localized recovery. One of the things I learned from Jones was the difference between localized recovery and systemic recovery. Recovery of your body as a whole. Remember, even if you do no training at all and are a couch potato you still tap that systemic recovery just being alive. No matter how inactive you are you still need to recover from just being awake by sleeping every night. As physical demands grow surely your need for systemic recovery does as well. So even if you are training each muscle group, say, twice a week, but you are training everyday, the systemic demands far exceed anything you would see in nature. Primitive cultures, animals (both predators and prey), still spend most of their time just loafing around. The king of the jungle -- the male lion, has to be one of the laziest predators on earth. It doesn't even really hunt. Just eat what the lioness catches, sleeps, fucks and defends the pride (which is what it is most designed to do -- which is to fight). Hell, my dog must get about 16 hours of sleep a day. No wonder he's so full of energy.
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I have an engineering factory. How many bodybuilding champions have one? You need big machines to build gym equipment. Lathes, milling machines, radial drills, bandsaws, big welders, etc. I taught myself to use these machines. Building the biceps-supinator by myself was a challenge. I didn't feel competent to do the tool making of parts. Well, I bit the bullet and did it and was quite pleased with the result. When I installed it in my gym I found I had to make modifications. The machine has had 3 major modifications over the years. I used a lot of stainless steel because I wanted the machine to be durable and not corrode over time. The movement mimics doing dumbbell curls. You can do them together or one arm at a time. You can curl and supinate at the same time or do the movements separately. When you have exhausted the biceps doing curls you can do more via the supination twists. The workouts for biceps can be absolutely brutal.
I have an idea for an improvement for your machine. How about some sort of lock on each handle grip for the supine position.
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How about just using a dumbbell?
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Dumbbells can be used but only if gripped close to one end. If you can build one then make the grip area much longer so you can increase the lever and hence the resistance for supination.
Also, try doing curls this way. Start with dumbbells on the thighs but hands facing each other. As you slowly curl the dumbbells rotate them inwards and complete the inward rotation before the dumbbells are at 90 degrees. Try to get the little fingers higher than the thumbs before you are half way through the curl. This should stress the supination function of the biceps. Lift the dumbbells at the end of the movement to stress the 3rd function of the biceps.
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Wow, this thread itself is a meltdown. :o :o :o
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Dumbbells can be used but only if gripped close to one end. If you can build one then make the grip area much longer so you can increase the lever and hence the resistance for supination.
Also, try doing curls this way. Start with dumbbells on the thighs but hands facing each other. As you slowly curl the dumbbells rotate them inwards and complete the inward rotation before the dumbbells are at 90 degrees. Try to get the little fingers higher than the thumbs before you are half way through the curl. This should stress the supination function of the biceps. Lift the dumbbells at the end of the movement to stress the 3rd function of the biceps.
I don't do biceps but if I did I would just do a few quick DB and BB curls
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Here I am the inventor of a new biceps machine and the Getbig experts are suggesting what they would do. Bloodly hell what an amazing activity bodybuilding is. Everyone is a genuine expert.
Let me see if I can explain what I am doing. I am not canvassing Getbig to see what I should do. I am not asking for advice. I am simply following my ideas and repeating an experiment I did over 12 years ago when I gained an inch on my biceps and triceps in one month. This time I hope I avoid injury. I certainly don't do just any old biceps movement. That would show I learned nothing from over 50 years training. Exercise selection is crucial. Have you got that? You cannot do just anything and expect to grow bigger. It has to be effective. Well, if you don't grow bigger then you are doing at least one thing wrong and have to change what you are doing. Not at all good during an experiment. If others want to try to get bigger by all means have a go but start your own thread perhaps in the training forum. I need motivation so guys throwing stones won't hurt. Spare me the old theories from what you learned in your garage.
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Here I am the inventor of a new biceps machine and the Getbig experts are suggesting what they would do. Bloodly hell what an amazing activity bodybuilding is. Everyone is a genuine expert.
What made you an expert?
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What made you an expert?
Nothing, that's the sad part :-\
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Did NASA not spend millions developing a pen that worked in space and the Ruski's just used a pencil?
Don't try to reinvent the wheel.
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I consider myself an authority on hypertrophy training. I don't know that much and there is plenty to learn. However, the typical Getbigger knows even less than I do. I haven't heard any new theories about hypertrophy posted on this forum. I have posted mine here. That says it all.
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I consider myself an authority on hypertrophy training. I don't know that much and there is plenty to learn. However, the typical Getbigger knows even less than I do. I haven't heard any new theories about hypertrophy posted on this forum. I have posted mine here. That says it all.
So if someone makes up a theory, they are an expert?
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I consider myself an authority on hypertrophy training. I don't know that much and there is plenty to learn. However, the typical Getbigger knows even less than I do. I haven't heard any new theories about hypertrophy posted on this forum. I have posted mine here. That says it all.
My theory for best hypertrophy results is 100 slow reps with light weight
There you go I have a theory, we are now equal.
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Listen, chaos, if you haven't done the reading why come here to argue points? Makes about as much sense as dumbbells clanging in the weightroom.
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My theory for best hypertrophy results is 100 slow reps with light weight
There you go I have a theory, we are now equal.
My theory is that Vince Basile looks like shit.
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My theory for best hypertrophy results is 100 slow reps with light weight
There you go I have a theory, we are now equal.
LOL. Congratulations.
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I trained on my birthday 2 days ago. Stiff but not sore today so I am training again. Feels great. 18 inch arms here I come....then who knows?
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Listen, chaos, if you haven't done the reading why come here to argue points? Makes about as much sense as dumbbells clanging in the weightroom.
What points did I argue? You're so quick to dismiss any and all input as to how to improve your equipment and attack the expertise of others while claiming yourself to be some kind of muscle building and engineering expert, all I did was asked what makes you an expert? And the only thing you can respond with is that you have a theory on hypertrophy??
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Yes, what does one have to do to qualify as an expert in bodybuilding? I suppose there are many levels. If you have made good gains in a gym and people compliment you on your size I guess that is one level of being an expert. Hence, most on Getbig qualify.
The next level requires that a person has read the literature and/or has vast experience training in the gym. At this stage you can argue with others about training protocols and you will usually be able to assess whether various methods have merit or not. It also requires experience at doing these other methods. That is the main way to know what is effective and what is not.
The third level is formulating a new theory of hypertrophy along with training methods needed to get there. This theory must be new and bold. It must explain things that haven't been explained before.
The highest level is obtaining a PhD in hypertrophy and perhaps doing original research in the area to demonstrate hypotheses. I know of no one at this level.
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LOL this delusional old schmuck just invented the different levels of bodybuilding expertise
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LOL. How would any of you guys know if someone was an expert or not? That is the amusing thing. It is always easy to dismiss others but extremely difficult to come up with new
training theories. Get your ideas published in Ironman. I will accept that.
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LOL. How would any of you guys know if someone was an expert or not? That is the amusing thing. It is always easy to dismiss others but extremely difficult to come up with new
training theories. Get your ideas published in Ironman. I will accept that.
The funny part is that you haven't tested your theory anywhere and when you presented them to Ironage they thought it was rubbish.
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People laughed at Arthur Jones when he arrived on the scene. Ridicule is always found when someone proposes something different that goes against what is believed. Not getting laughed it would be a worry.
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I consider myself an authority on hypertrophy training. I don't know that much and there is plenty to learn. However, the typical Getbigger knows even less than I do. I haven't heard any new theories about hypertrophy posted on this forum. I have posted mine here. That says it all.
A theory is not always correct.
We understand the conept how the human body works now. We do not need any more theories
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People laughed at Arthur Jones when he arrived on the scene. Ridicule is always found when someone proposes something different that goes against what is believed. Not getting laughed it would be a worry.
You make it sound like you're Newton yet to be recognized by the world ::). If you dropped the pompous arrogant attitude and presented your theory in a straightforward manner without proclaiming your superiority to the "floatsam" then maybe, maaaybe getbig wouldn't think you're an old delusional fatass. More likely getbig would just think your theory was stupid though.
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LOL. How would any of you guys know if someone was an expert or not? That is the amusing thing. It is always easy to dismiss others but extremely difficult to come up with new
training theories. Get your ideas published in Ironman. I will accept that.
You constantly dismiss others as "flotsam" when they give you input. I have many people, old, young, newbies, old timers, men and women ask for my opinion or my help in the gym, am I an expert?
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A theory is not always correct.
We understand the conept how the human body works now. We do not need any more theories
Wow, the resident philosophers have arrived. Do me a favour and read about what Karl Popper said about conjectures and refutations. Don't embarrass yourself with statements like you made.
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You constantly dismiss others as "flotsam" when they give you input. I have many people, old, young, newbies, old timers, men and women ask for my opinion or my help in the gym, am I an expert?
I know there are some highly intelligent people here. Some are also highly educated. Most are not. Bodybuilders as a group are dumb. That stereotype is probably more true than not.
Genuine input is always welcome. Even excellent criticism. However, I am doing an experiment on myself and am making progress. That is all I need. When I fail to continue gaining is when I will need input.
Good for you that others consider you knowledgeable re training. I don't doubt that but that doesn't make you an hypertrophy expert by what the untrained and intermediates think.
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Two men who are genuine experts in hypertrophy are Dr Fred Hatfield and Dr Jose Antonio. I acknowledge both of them. Magazine publishers and editors are probably not as expert as they think they are. The smartest bodybuilder re training theory was Mike Mentzer. A pity he championed Heavy Duty and HIT.
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I know there are some highly intelligent people here. Some are also highly educated. Most are not. Bodybuilders as a group are dumb. That stereotype is probably more true than not.
Genuine input is always welcome. Even excellent criticism. However, I am doing an experiment on myself and am making progress. That is all I need. When I fail to continue gaining is when I will need input.
Good for you that others consider you knowledgeable re training. I don't doubt that but that doesn't make you an hypertrophy expert by what the untrained and intermediates think.
I wouldn't consider myself a bodybuilder....the first 4-5 years maybe.
This is suppose to be about your theory and your results, I am fully interested and can't wait to see what progress is made. What is the time frame for this?
I'm not an expert but my ideas and advice are sought by everyone from newbies to advanced trainers ??? GODDAMN IT I WANT TO BE AN EXPERT!!!!!
My theory of hypertrophy:
Lift heavy shit
Eat lots of dead animal
Rest
Repeat
Winning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
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Listen, chaos, if you haven't done the reading why come here to argue points? Makes about as much sense as dumbbells clanging in the weightroom.
Chaos has bigger arms than you.
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Chaos is a big guy and I doubt anyone messes with him in or out of the gym. The hallowed halls of universities allow everyone who is interested in gaining more knowledge.
How many bodybuilders have gone to proper universities and obtained advanced degrees? A few. Frank Zane has a masters and Richard Baldwin and Ellington Darden have PhD degrees.
No one has obtained a PhD in maximum human hypertrophy that I know of.
Many years ago I argued with Milos Sarcev on this forum and he got angry and dismissed me. I was suggesting that I could help him build his arms bigger. He laughed. He said
he had tried everything and even consulted experts in Canada and elsewhere. The fact that he couldn't succeed means what? Only that he failed. It doesn't prove that his
arms couldn't grow more doing something he never tried.
Milos advocates training rapidly. I don't. Training rapidly is not a necessary factor in hypertrophy. Doing so will limit the amount of resistance that can be used and increases
in resistance is what is ultimately behind hypertrophy. It makes all the difference in the world how many reps and sets one does. Time might be important but not so essential.
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And yet those uneducated bodybuilders are huge, seems they either know quite a bit about hypertrophy or are just getting lucky I guess. I have two master's degrees and a PhD in kinesiology but it doesn't mean I know anything about weightlifting.
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putting down a 70 year old guy who is just doing what he enjoys in life, nice man.
I was taught to respect my elders.
Vince doesn't deserve my respect...he's arrogant, condescending and flat out rude to anyone who tries to engage him in a serious discussion, or challenges his theories.
He's a jerk, in plain english.
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this intrigued me. So what is the basis of your training? 1 min rest? Heavy weight? What's so differant can you break it down. I am interested.
Chaos is a big guy and I doubt anyone messes with him in or out of the gym. The hallowed halls of universities allow everyone who is interested in gaining more knowledge.
How many bodybuilders have gone to proper universities and obtained advanced degrees? A few. Frank Zane has a masters and Richard Baldwin and Ellington Darden have PhD degrees.
No one has obtained a PhD in maximum human hypertrophy that I know of.
Many years ago I argued with Milos Sarcev on this forum and he got angry and dismissed me. I was suggesting that I could help him build his arms bigger. He laughed. He said
he had tried everything and even consulted experts in Canada and elsewhere. The fact that he couldn't succeed means what? Only that he failed. It doesn't prove that his
arms couldn't grow more doing something he never tried.
Milos advocates training rapidly. I don't. Training rapidly is not a necessary factor in hypertrophy. Doing so will limit the amount of resistance that can be used and increases
in resistance is what is ultimately behind hypertrophy. It makes all the difference in the world how many reps and sets one does. Time might be important but not so essential.
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Groink and others have paid their dues and have the size to back up what they say. Others are highly educated. I don't dispute any of your qualifications. However, coming up with new theories in any area is the exception and not the rule. If you got big you had to do plenty of things right. All I am doing is advocating a particular way to train using a feedback mechanism that might be a shortcut to maximum hypertrophy. On a forum where just about everyone believes you need drugs to get huge you would think natural training would be a welcome alternative. That is what I am talking about and I am trying to prove I can grow at my age. Lots of older farts do bodybuilding. Good for them. I just have a different approach and hopefully a more effective one.
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I was taught to respect my elders.
Vince doesn't deserve my respect...he's arrogant, condescending and flat out rude to anyone who tries to engage him in a serious discussion, or challenges his theories.
He's a jerk, in plain english.
I have never debated with you on Getbig. The Flotsam don't need defending. I have never ignored serious debaters. Please have more content
than lift heavy weights in any argument with me.
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please respond
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You make it sound like you're Newton yet to be recognized by the world ::). If you dropped the pompous arrogant attitude and presented your theory in a straightforward manner without proclaiming your superiority to the "floatsam" then maybe, maaaybe getbig wouldn't think you're an old delusional fatass. More likely getbig would just think your theory was stupid though.
Lol. How people can bag others for being condescending is one of the ironies of Getbig and the internet. I own a gym and will discuss training and equipment with anyone who comes there. Being superior to most of the Flotsam here is no achievement. Hope this helps.
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this intrigued me. So what is the basis of your training? 1 min rest? Heavy weight? What's so differant can you break it down. I am interested.
I haven't got time to explain all the details again. Do a search on this forum and on the HST forum for more information. Try "DOMS".
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I haven't got time to explain all the details again. Do a search on this forum and on the HST forum for more information. Try "DOMS".
I know what hst is. You want me to search doms here?
please respond
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I have never debated with you on Getbig. The Flotsam don't need defending. I have never ignored serious debaters. Please have more content
than lift heavy weights in any argument with me.
That's not an accident....i see the way you "debate" and I'm not interested. I have decades of training experience and i will freely have a serious, respectful discussion with anyone on different theories of hypertrophy, as i have my own theories as well....you dismiss people out of hand, which is terribly rude
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That's not an accident....i see the way you "debate" and I'm not interested. I have decades of training experience and i will freely have a serious, respectful discussion with anyone on different theories of hypertrophy, as i have my own theories as well....you dismiss people out of hand, which is terribly rude
x2 Basile this is exactly why nobody likes you around here. You think you're some sort of expert because you own a gym and built some biceps contraption that literally nobody else in the world bothers to use. Getbig in general is not at all a condescending place; posters treat YOU SPECIFICALLY like that because that's how you treat everyone else.
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It's like the Chapel Of Rest in here. You haven't ordered a Christmas Tree have you Vince? You'd be fucking throwing your money away! Say hello to Roy Orbison when you get back, tell him we all miss him!
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basile. I searched and just found a few quotes by you. All I got was that I need to be under constant soreness? Could you explain a little more. Whole body? And you train every 3rd day how is the set up? Just train till really sore? I will do this experiment with youu and post pics as well. Since I been stuck at this size forever now. I'd be interested and since I am in my 20s it'll be neat to see. I am down for training like the old days.
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x2 Basile this is exactly why nobody likes you around here. You think you're some sort of expert because you own a gym and built some biceps contraption that literally nobody else in the world bothers to use. Getbig in general is not at all a condescending place; posters treat YOU SPECIFICALLY like that because that's how you treat everyone else.
LOL, at the notion of respect on Getbig. WTF are you talking about? There is no record of a Hulkotron obtaining a PhD in anything. Who the hell are you guys and why I should I debate with internet persona and bullshitters? Post under your real name if you want to be seriously considered. That takes more guts than most of you Flotsam have. While you remain hidden you are Flotsam.
Just imagine that you do post under your real name and then are called a homo, dope, and even a pedo and board owner Ron here allows this sort of despicable thing to persist. What a bunch of jerks. No thanks to being mates with most of you heroes. Get a PhD in maximum human hypertrophy and you will get my utmost respect.
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LOL, at the notion of respect on Getbig. WTF are you talking about? There is no record of a Hulkotron obtaining a PhD in anything. Who the hell are you guys and why I should I debate with internet persona and bullshitters? Post under your real name if you want to be seriously considered. That takes more guts than most of you Flotsam have. While you remain hidden you are Flotsam.
Just imagine that you do post under your real name and then are called a homo, dope, and even a pedo and board owner Ron here allows this sort of despicable thing to persist. What a bunch of jerks. No thanks to being mates with most of you heroes. Get a PhD in maximum human hypertrophy and you will get my utmost respect.
Why should I want your respect?
If Ron's policy of not banning people who boo hoo call you names around here is such an affront then just leave. Nobody will miss you. Nobody forces you to post under your real name you imbecile.
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Well, no one can deny that even by Getbig standards I am a good shitstirrer!
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what exactly did vince invent?
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what exactly did vince invent?
He invented the rear head of the deltoid
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He invented the rear head of the deltoid
And the myosin heavy chain.
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He invented the rear head of the deltoid
That and the supination/pronation action of the forearm.
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You make it sound like you're Newton yet to be recognized by the world ::). If you dropped the pompous arrogant attitude and presented your theory in a straightforward manner without proclaiming your superiority to the "floatsam" then maybe, maaaybe getbig wouldn't think you're an old delusional fatass. More likely getbig would just think your theory was stupid though.
LOL, great work in this thread. You should get an award. ;D ;D ;D
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He invented the rear head of the deltoid
im serious lol
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He invented the rear head of the deltoid
Vince invented MAN in his own image.
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Dudes a queer.
THE BEEF
lolz
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please respond
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You make it sound like you're Newton yet to be recognized by the world ::). If you dropped the pompous arrogant attitude and presented your theory in a straightforward manner without proclaiming your superiority to the "floatsam" then maybe, maaaybe getbig wouldn't think you're an old delusional fatass. More likely getbig would just think your theory was stupid though.
Fortunately for me, the truth of a theory is independent of what popular sentiment is.
http://philosophyfaculty.ucsd.edu/faculty/rarneson/Courses/popperphil1.pdf
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Vince invented MAN in his own image.
Jason Genova ???
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please respond
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what exactly did vince invent?
The hope is that he re-invents that bicep machine he has into a small rocket ship and blast himself to the moon.
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The hope is that he re-invents that bicep machine he has into a small rocket ship and blast himself to the moon.
ahahahaha, 10/10!!!
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How about just using a dumbbell?
With a dumbbell you don't get resistance across the full range of motion because your forearm is moving in a rotary motion. With free weights the resistance is always linear -- straight down. So if the dumbbell is 35lbs your bicep only gets that 35lbs when it is at right angle to the ground. There's virtually no direct resistance on your biceps as your arm hangs in the fullly extended position.
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Vince pls reconsider showing progress pics.
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With a dumbbell you don't get resistance across the full range of motion because your forearm is moving in a rotary motion. With free weights the resistance is always linear -- straight down. So if the dumbbell is 35lbs your bicep only gets that 35lbs when it is at right angle to the ground. There's virtually no direct resistance on your biceps as your arm hangs in the fullly extended position.
Arthur Jones took the variable resistance concept from Universal and developed it further. Regarding the resistance while doing biceps curls. Nautilus machines are supposed to be superior because they provide the right amount of resistance throughout the movement. I haven't been convinced that this is superior to what barbells and dumbbells can do. It was just assumed that providing variable resistance was better and would therefore help the muscles grow faster. Muscleheads ignor those machines and head for the free weights room. Thank goodness they do because that noise of clanging weights is contained in that space and the machine room is much quieter.
My biceps-supinator machine provides resistance in two degrees of freedom and that should stimulate more fibres to contract and hence help hypertrophy. I will see if I can borrow my machine for this experiment. I am using a modified Nautilus Biceps Machine which is okay but I need something better. I will also have to fashion a lying triceps extension machine for myself. Would be best to have 5 pound plates so that small increments can be selected as I progress.
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Vince pls reconsider showing progress pics.
When I have significantly bigger arms I will post a photo.
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When I have significantly bigger arms I will post a photo.
Seriously - go for it and try and get some fat off gradually too. Will be interesting. Remember if you talk the talk .....
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Arthur Jones took the variable resistance concept from Universal and developed it further. Regarding the resistance while doing biceps curls. Nautilus machines are supposed to be superior because they provide the right amount of resistance throughout the movement. I haven't been convinced that this is superior to what barbells and dumbbells can do. It was just assumed that providing variable resistance was better and would therefore help the muscles grow faster. Muscleheads ignor those machines and head for the free weights room. Thank goodness they do because that noise of clanging weights is contained in that space and the machine room is much quieter.
My biceps-supinator machine provides resistance in two degrees of freedom and that should stimulate more fibres to contract and hence help hypertrophy. I will see if I can borrow my machine for this experiment. I am using a modified Nautilus Biceps Machine which is okay but I need something better. I will also have to fashion a lying triceps extension machine for myself. Would be best to have 5 pound plates so that small increments can be selected as I progress.
Yes, I remember Jones talking about the supination aspect of bicep contraction. Something that I hadn't the slightest idea of and never considered. I learned so much reading and re-reading his bulletins. Whether they made any real world practical difference has never been objectively proved. Scott and Arnold built great arms without these machines and I don't think Coleman ever did the Nautilus Pullover which Yates considered indispensable.
Jones also believed that the bicep only achieve full contraction when your upper arm is brought close to the side of your face. Like making a double bicep pose except bring your upper arm closer to the side of you head. He had a machine designed for that but admitted that he could not develop a workable machine that provided meaningful supination contraction. But once I learned this I would load my dumbbells with one side heavier than the other side to provide supination resistance as I turned my wrist inward while curling. I thought I invented this -- lol!
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increases
in resistance is what is ultimately behind hypertrophy.
FACT
If your DOMS theroy does indeed work then it will be because it allowed you to make significant increases in training resistance used. So how have your strength gains been? How much have they gone up on your curl and your extension?
Here is a clip from the Mentzer seminar in Canada back in '98 as he describes 2 in the gym clients of his. The 1st one went from 163 to 210 in 4 and a half months, and his deadlift went from 170 to 380. The second one went from 147 to 175 in 3 months, and his deadlift went from 165 to 345. His testimony of these 2 clients starts at about 6:30 into this clip.
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Everyone who trains with weights or resistance is more or less doing the same old thing that has been done for a long time. The two things that are crucial for my hypothesis are multiple maximum sets and retraining while sore. No DOMS means no rapid growth. Of course, it is assumed that sufficient nutrients are ingested to gain weight. If not, then no amount of training will cause much hypertrophy.
I stumbled across the importance of DOMS when I was training my arms in 1998-9. I reached a sticking point and no amount of time under tension stimulated more growth. I wondered why the heck not. High intensity and a reasonably long time under tension was having no effect except to stay the same size. Then I changed the triceps exercise to lying extensions with upper arms on pads. The next day my triceps were very sore. How was this possible when I had been blasting them for weeks? Well, a more effective exercise was used that isolated the muscle and also put it into a stretched position. DOMS and growth followed. It occurred to me that now I could explain why so many were not growing.....no matter how hard they were training. I wondered what would happen if I kept the triceps sore. Answer? Rapid, sustained growth. I was growing 1/10 of an inch per training day or 1 inch in a month for both calves and arms. That was satisfying.
I am repeating the experiment again but this time I hope to avoid injuries that cut my last trial short. Keep elbows away from surfaces. Warm up thoroughly and avoid dangerous exercises. Do not do ballistic movements for calves. So far, so good, but it is early days and I have completed 5 arm workouts. I haven't measured my arms cold yet. I will announce when they are 18 inches cold in the morning.
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LOL, great work in this thread. You should get an award. ;D ;D ;D
;D just being myself.
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someone should rename this thread two old senile cu nts
vince and pellius appear to be
sucking each others dicks while ignoring the fact that they are a pair of ball bags
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Measuring tape....
Don't forget.
Abs.
Don't forget them either. An 18" arm doesn't mean shit without abs.
If you are going to do biceps work, you would actually warm them up first and then 1) avoid full extension 2) keep the elbows non-moving (or supported) throughout MOST of the range of motion 3) when you get your fist upside your head, hit it (j/k) ~ actually, turn your wrist AWAY from your head and squeeze the bicep as hard as you can, lift and hold (static)
When you lower your arm, this is another great place for *variable* negative resistance. If you had a good training partner, he could add enough resistance throughout the lowering phase. He would have to know just exactly how much resistance to add ( not too much, not too little)~ then at the bottom of the rep (not full extension) you could hold a static contraction with added resistance. After the bicep is on fire with lactic acid, you could start pumping out partial "burns" and fry them.
You shouldn't have to do this twice.
If I could "invent" a machine, I would have fully twisting handles and a foot lever to vary the resistance throughout the range of motion. This is the only way I could see a machine tailoring it's movement to you and your individual build. I don't know how I could get enough resistance (without a partner) for the lowering (negative) portion of the rep.
You could attempt single arm curls in the seated concentration position (to begin with) and then stand up against a wall for the rest of the rep, and for the negative, reach your other arm across and pull down during the lowering phase I suppose...
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"He thought he could still build muscle at his age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever for you bitches."
is going to look awesome on your headstone, Vince.
FUNNY ;D
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someone should rename this thread two old senile cu nts
vince and pellius appear to be
sucking each others dicks while ignoring the fact that they are a pair of ball bags
why are you being so rude to the guy?....at least he is putting himself out there..what do you look like?
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Wow, the resident philosophers have arrived. Do me a favour and read about what Karl Popper said about conjectures and refutations. Don't embarrass yourself with statements like you made.
Don't embarass yourself being that man in his 70th year posting 40 year old photos and STILL obsessing about weights. Have you no family or children or grandchildren to constructively spend time with rather than doing what you are attempting to do.
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why are you being so rude to the guy?....at least he is putting himself out there..what do you look like?
"andre is da man"
really?
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an 18 inch arm in your condition is about a 16 inch arm in your 1970 condition.
seriously, i'm just reminding that an 18 inch arm is achievable with such high bf.
the arguments with you and gh15 were ALWAYS about being in CONDITION. the condition had to match the inches of the arm.
THAT was the argument.
and even then!! the argument was that you could have them at 19!!! naturally!!! conditioned!!!....at 70 years old!!!
lol.
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Lets be real people. A man/women who hasn't ever trained or who has taken significant time off from training is going to blow up like a weed the first month or two of training regardless of how they lift(in most cases). Basile should be able to put an inch on his arm in 30 days. That' really no big deal at all. Don't you people remember how much bigger you got when you first started lifting? All the time Basile took off the gym puts his body at the beginner level but he'll have the benefit of muscle memory from a century ago. The truth is it would be impossible for him or anyone to not gain an inch on his arms in 30 days who took that much time off. Hell Basile could shave his arms now and take a picture and it will look like he is much more muscular. Basile is doing a 30 day experiment that can't possibly fail so he can claim some sort of guru status. If this is what he needs to get back into the gym and in some sort of shape then more power to him. But make no mistake, a 15 year old boy who never trained in his life could put on an inch on in 30 days training arms to failure every 3rd day.
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someone should rename this thread two old senile cu nts
vince and pellius appear to be
sucking each others dicks while ignoring the fact that they are a pair of ball bags
Wow! That's pretty funny "big"mc. You sound smart.
So how often do you fantasize about men sucking each other's cocks? And why don't you post a pic here and show us why you like to call yourself "big".
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why are you being so rude to the guy?....at least he is putting himself out there..what do you look like?
EXACTLY. Just another insecure kunt hiding behind a keyboard bringing people down because he hasn't accomplished anything meaningful in life.
But at least he thinks he's "big." (God that never gets old.)
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Don't embarass yourself being that man in his 70th year posting 40 year old photos and STILL obsessing about weights. Have you no family or children or grandchildren to constructively spend time with rather than doing what you are attempting to do.
Ursus, I'm surprised at you. How do you know he doesn't spend time with his family? I'm sure you do and yet you still have time to train and work full time. The guy is retired why do you want to discourage him from training? At what age do you plan to stop training and taking care of yourself.
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Lets be real people. A man/women who hasn't ever trained or who has taken significant time off from training is going to blow up like a weed the first month or two of training regardless of how they lift(in most cases). Basile should be able to put an inch on his arm in 30 days. That' really no big deal at all. Don't you people remember how much bigger you got when you first started lifting? All the time Basile took off the gym puts his body at the beginner level but he'll have the benefit of muscle memory from a century ago. The truth is it would be impossible for him or anyone to not gain an inch on his arms in 30 days who took that much time off. Hell Basile could shave his arms now and take a picture and it will look like he is much more muscular. Basile is doing a 30 day experiment that can't possibly fail so he can claim some sort of guru status. If this is what he needs to get back into the gym and in some sort of shape then more power to him. But make no mistake, a 15 year old boy who never trained in his life could put on an inch on in 30 days training arms to failure every 3rd day.
I don't think anybody doubts he'll make improvements if he sticks with it. He has claimed to equal or exceed his 1970 condition. Nobody believes that except Vince. Maybe he'll prove us all wrong but then again I could open my door right now and find Jessica Alba standing there waiting for me. Not beyond the realm of possibility but not even remotely likely.
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I don't think anybody doubts he'll make improvements if he sticks with it. He has claimed to equal or exceed his 1970 condition. Nobody believes that except Vince. Maybe he'll prove us all wrong but then again I could open my door right now and find Jessica Alba standing there waiting for me. Not beyond the realm of possibility but not even remotely likely.
Lottery ticket, anyone?
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I have been designing and building equipment for my gym since 1975. The biceps-supinator machine is the only one in a gym in the universe that we know of. Golds Gym, Venice, doesn't have the lying triceps extension machine. Our gym has three of them and a modified Nautilus Triceps unit that allows you to do the lying movement.
You are guilty of three major getbig mistakes:
1. You actually competed and won a real national title ( Mr Canada) getbig strike 1
2. You actually made real equipment and work out on it. strike 2
3. You feel that hard training and sound diet with build muscle without steroids strike 3. :D
Vince,most of these get big characters are just regular young guys that want to believe it is all steroids, and drugs.
That way they will always have a ready made excuse for not being a decent bodybuilder.
It is a lot easier to blame a lack of drug connections then your own lack of hardwork or genetics.
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Pellius........dude, ease back on the throttle man. ;D
Try the decaf, you're stressing for no reason.
He'll get some brief muscle memory gains, then an injury, then 82,000 flotsam insult posts, then lose interest, then claim success.
Chisel it in stone.
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Can you kindly explain in one sentence what you are trying to accomplish and how you plan to do it.
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Pellius........dude, ease back on the throttle man. ;D
Try the decaf, you're stressing for no reason.
He'll get some brief muscle memory gains, then an injury, then 82,000 flotsam insult posts, then lose interest, then claim success.
Chisel it in stone.
LOL @ stressing.
Guy is finally doing something that people have been raging him about for years and then they try to bring him down. Sure I think he'll fail but how many people actually step up and back up their shit around here?
I hate shit talking bench warmers.
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Can you kindly explain in one sentence what you are trying to accomplish and how you plan to do it.
Can't be explained in one sentence but I'll try to say it as simply as possible.
He claims that age is no barrier to hypertrophy if a proper training protocol is instituted. He claims that he knows what that protocol is. Furthermore, he claims that because of his increased knowledge and access to better equipment he can "absolutely" exceed his Mr. Canada condition.
Because of my generous nature I will consider it a resounding success if he merely matches his 1970 condition.
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Most of these dopes on this board have no idea how hard it is to lift in your 50's and 60's. They brag about being old at 40. For a guy to be natural and in shape into their last years is so rare. Don't post a picture of some 55 year old that's juicing to the gills. Hell, even little girls have muscles with drugs so I'm not impressed by steroid muscles.
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an 18 inch arm in your condition is about a 16 inch arm in your 1970 condition.
seriously, i'm just reminding that an 18 inch arm is achievable with such high bf.
the arguments with you and gh15 were ALWAYS about being in CONDITION. the condition had to match the inches of the arm.
THAT was the argument.
and even then!! the argument was that you could have them at 19!!! naturally!!! conditioned!!!....at 70 years old!!!
lol.
QFT
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The consensus regarding hypertrophy and old age is that this is not possible without drugs. Everyone says that men decline as they age and this includes the capacity for growing muscles. Surely strength declines and few are able to lift what they could when young. Likewise it is not possible to grow like we did in our twenties.
Now some are saying gaining an inch or two is nothing but muscle memory. What is it, good people? How can you have muscle memory and rapid gains at 69....and have it completely naturally and with absolutely no supplements or special diet?
I boldly claimed that I could build my muscles larger than when I won my title in 1970. That was 41 years ago. Many here thought this was proof that I joined Goodrum in the totally delusional stakes! I felt I could achieve a similar condition because when I train my arms they still respond by growing. There is no decline. I am pleased and surprised. This wasn't expected.
I talked to a serious young guy at my gym yesterday. He wanted information. Here was yet another person who believed all manner of things that were preventing him from getting bigger. He mixed some water with some protein while talking to me. When I asked why he thought he needed that drink he questioned why I would say that. Here I was giving him an opinion and he was questioning it. That is typical of bodybuilders. They believe some things and that is set in concrete. They seldom change those basic principles.
Talking to the guys in my gym is similar to debating with Getbiggers. They both have firm beliefs and NOTHING is going to change them. People here don't accept much of what I post and instead continue to believe their pet ideas.
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Measurements mean nothing. Next door a 250 pound grandmother has 19 inch arms. She also must have 19 inch calves.
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Measurements mean nothing. Next door a 250 pound grandmother has 19 inch arms. She also must have 19 inch calves.
Somehow Basile seems to fail to grasp this, instead he goes on bashing how dumb "bodybuilders" are. ::) ::)
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I know I won't be around to see what some of you guys will look like at my age. Let me tell you it is hard to keep your arms big. Why? Well, you have to train regularly and heavy. Motivation evaporates. People my age usually have limited mobility because of sore knees, etc. Few even work out. Few can go for long walks carrying a backpack. Staying big is just not going to happen....unless you have a reason.
Now some are saying an 18 inch arm isn't big if one is bulky. It is only 16 inches of muscle. What a laugh. Have any of you read the literature regarding skin folds? On men there is a poor correlation with skin folds and body fat. The reverse is true with women. My skin folds are not very thick so that means most of my arm is muscle. Please don't bring the complete set of false beliefs to this thread.
Btw, Bigmc and even that jerk Dr Chimps have photos posted on their pet forum. The rule there is you have to post a photo of yourself before you can post there. Some of the guys are big but many fall into the Flotsam category. Notice that they contribute in this thread like the dickheads they are. Smartasses who haven't done much in bodybuilding.
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Most bodybuilders don't age that well. Those who keep up the training can retain some of their size but many lose that hypertrophy. When I was in my prime there were several guys who impressed me. Larry Scott, Sergio Oliva, Casey Viator and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Arnold has lost much of his former size. Even his calves have shrunk. Sergio has wasted away. Larry still has some biceps but looks small in clothes. Casey still has big arms and huge forearms but looks very bulky. He is much younger than I am. Casey is the exception possibly because he still lifts heavy and regularly.
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With a dumbbell you don't get resistance across the full range of motion because your forearm is moving in a rotary motion. With free weights the resistance is always linear -- straight down. So if the dumbbell is 35lbs your bicep only gets that 35lbs when it is at right angle to the ground. There's virtually no direct resistance on your biceps as your arm hangs in the fullly extended position.
... but the bicep isn't equally storng throughout the whole range of motion, onl yin th emiddle where the barbell is coincidentally the heaviest
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More photos of the big guys from the past.
Bob Gajda beat Sergio in the AAU Mr America in 1966. I would never have believed that Arnold would be as small as he is in these photos. Larry has retained some of his arm size because he was working out. Overall he has lost most of his size.
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Somehow Basile seems to fail to grasp this, instead he goes on bashing how dumb "bodybuilders" are. ::) ::)
Go to any major university and see how many big bodybuilders you see walking around. Go to the uni gyms and see how many are there? They are as rare as hens teeth. That has always been true, is still true today, and will be true into the far distant future.
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Measuring tape.... Don't forget. abs. Don't forget them either. An 18" arm doesn't mean shit without abs.
If you are going to do biceps work, you would actually warm them up first and then 1) avoid full extension 2) keep the elbows non-moving (or supported) throughout MOST of the range of motion 3) when you get your fist upside your head, hit it (j/k) ~ actually, turn your wrist AWAY from your head and squeeze the bicep as hard as you can, lift and hold (static)
When you lower your arm, this is another great place for *variable* negative resistance. If you had a good training partner, he could add enough resistance throughout the lowering phase. He would have to know just exactly how much resistance to add ( not too much, not too little)~ then at the bottom of the rep (not full extension) you could hold a static contraction with added resistance. After the bicep is on fire with lactic acid, you could start pumping out partial "burns" and fry them. You shouldn't have to do this twice.
If I could "invent" a machine, I would have fully twisting handles and a foot lever to vary the resistance throughout the range of motion. This is the only way I could see a machine tailoring it's movement to you and your individual build. I don't know how I could get enough resistance (without a partner) for the lowering (negative) portion of the rep.
You could attempt single arm curls in the seated concentration position (to begin with) and then stand up against a wall for the rest of the rep, and for the negative, reach your other arm across and pull down during the lowering phase I suppose...
Some interesting ideas.
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I won't be doing any heavy negatives at the moment. I have to avoid injuries and I can tell you that once you tear a biceps you get residual sharp jabs of pain from time to time. My elbows are not the best and if I put my weight on them in bed, for example, I get a sharp pain. Curse those injuries. Without them I would be sailing through this experiment. With them I have to hold back for fear I might aggravate those injuries. For some peculiar reason I am still able to do heavy triceps work even with some pain. Once they are warmed up and slightly pumped the pain subsides and I can continue training. That is a gift of nature for sure. I wonder why the pain subsides when blood is pumped into the area?
The calves are peculiar muscles. I played basketball in high school so had reasonable calves. I well remember measuring the calves of this lifeguard in Kamloops in those days. This guy had great calves. His measurement? 16 1/4 inches. They looked much bigger. My calves were about 15 1/2 then. I specialized on calves and eventually had them at 17 1/4 in contest condition. I had them at about 18 1/4 inches at my biggest some 12 years ago. I haven't done any calf training since then. I do carry heavy camera equipment when out taking photos on long walks. They are about 17 1/2 in the morning and a bit larger at night. If you want to feel good then always measure calves at night and arms in the morning! It might be possible to get them up to 19 inches and that would be an excellent achievement.
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Go to any major university and see how many big bodybuilders you see walking around. Go to the uni gyms and see how many are there? They are as rare as hens teeth. That has always been true, is still true today, and will be true into the far distant future.
Because bodybuilding is a niche pageant that a very small percentage of people are interested in competing in ??? How many big bodybuilders do you see anywhere?
How many huge football players are in these uni gyms? Football is infinitely more popular than bbing, therfore you see many more huge football players than bbers. It's not that difficult to figure out. :-\
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More photos of the big guys from the past.
Bob Gajda beat Sergio in the AAU Mr America in 1966. I would never have believed that Arnold would be as small as he is in these photos. Larry has retained some of his arm size because he was working out. Overall he has lost most of his size.
Holy shit, is that Larry Scott in 2010?!! That would make him over 70 years old! Incredible! His guns would put most people to shame here at any age.
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LOL @ stressing.
Guy is finally doing something that people have been raging him about for years and then they try to bring him down. Sure I think he'll fail but how many people actually step up and back up their shit around here?
I hate shit talking bench warmers.
You live in paradise....relax, find a nice girl, play with her tits, pop one off under her chin.
I'll be honest, I don't like Basile because of his "smarter than thou" attitude and his name-calling. I'm not going to whine, cry, or spend any time pondering it though. But I'll be back in full-force once the goofy, old, fuck fails.
Just to witness the carnage. ;D
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You live in paradise....relax, find a nice girl, play with her tits, pop one off under her chin.
I'll be honest, I don't like Basile because of his "smarter than thou" attitude and his name-calling. I'm not going to whine, cry, or spend any time pondering it though. But I'll be back in full-force once the goofy, old, fuck fails.
Just to witness the carnage. ;D
That is the spirit. Give me your best shots. These knocks are being recorded as historical documents!
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Measuring tape....
Don't forget.
Abs.
Don't forget them either. An 18" arm doesn't mean shit without abs.
If you are going to do biceps work, you would actually warm them up first and then 1) avoid full extension 2) keep the elbows non-moving (or supported) throughout MOST of the range of motion 3) when you get your fist upside your head, hit it (j/k) ~ actually, turn your wrist AWAY from your head and squeeze the bicep as hard as you can, lift and hold (static)
When you lower your arm, this is another great place for *variable* negative resistance. If you had a good training partner, he could add enough resistance throughout the lowering phase. He would have to know just exactly how much resistance to add ( not too much, not too little)~ then at the bottom of the rep (not full extension) you could hold a static contraction with added resistance. After the bicep is on fire with lactic acid, you could start pumping out partial "burns" and fry them.
You shouldn't have to do this twice.
If I could "invent" a machine, I would have fully twisting handles and a foot lever to vary the resistance throughout the range of motion. This is the only way I could see a machine tailoring it's movement to you and your individual build. I don't know how I could get enough resistance (without a partner) for the lowering (negative) portion of the rep.
You could attempt single arm curls in the seated concentration position (to begin with) and then stand up against a wall for the rest of the rep, and for the negative, reach your other arm across and pull down during the lowering phase I suppose...
good description of proper bicep form and technique. i like doing them on the preacher bench one arm at a time. but not to failure and certainly not partials after hitting failure. i bet your arms have been the same size for years. not that you have small arms, from the pics you posted your arms look good.
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Holy shit, is that Larry Scott in 2010?!! That would make him over 70 years old! Incredible! His guns would put most people to shame here at any age.
x2
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good description of proper bicep form and technique. i like doing them on the preacher bench one arm at a time. but not to failure and certainly not partials after hitting failure. i bet your arms have been the same size for years. not that you have small arms, from the pics you posted your arms look good.
Larry Scott knew how to train arms. Very good information from him. I haven't had any big champions try my biceps-supinator machine. Lee Priest came to my gym for a workout but stayed in the free weights room. I wasn't there so couldn't invite him to have a go. That would have been interesting. I would like some feedback from a guy with huge arms.
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good description of proper bicep form and technique. i like doing them on the preacher bench one arm at a time. but not to failure and certainly not partials after hitting failure. i bet your arms have been the same size for years. not that you have small arms, from the pics you posted your arms look good.
My arm size always fluctuates with my total bodyweight/bodyfat levels.
I suppose they reached their "natural" max years ago. We all know what Gh15 has to say about that. I perfectly fit his criteria.
For my height and bodyfat, I suppose my arms are pretty big. I still hear comments from people when I'm wearing a T-shirt (not a Jay Cutler approved "club T") ~ but the comments aren't flowing like they used to be. I'm gettin' old man. Sure, I'd love to have 19" guns, but I'm not willing to pay the price.
That bicep workout of mine isn't etched in stone. It's something I do every so often. I actually have the twisting handles made already. They have an outer circular ring with a bike grip handle in the middle. They are very crude.
I suppose I could post pics... but then again, what if I get a patent and become filthy stinking rich?
LOL. I'm so stupid.
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Come on, Vince. Dropping fat should be your priority, as if your doctor hasn't already told you so. We'd like to keep you on the board so make with the heartrate monitored cardio and veggie intensive calorie moderated eating plan. If you want to do some curls too while you're at it, then cool.
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Larry Scott knew how to train arms. Very good information from him. I haven't had any big champions try my biceps-supinator machine. Lee Priest came to my gym for a workout but stayed in the free weights room. I wasn't there so couldn't invite him to have a go. That would have been interesting. I would like some feedback from a guy with huge arms.
What was/is Larry Scott's info?
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Larry Scott has a website. You can find some videos on YouTube.
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Gaining an inch or two is easy for beginners who never stepped into a gym in their life. The amount of size a person puts on in that first and second month of consistent training is some of the best growth they will ever see without hormones. I'm saying that your body has been untrained for so long that your arms will grow like a weed the first couple months regardless of how you train as long as its consistent. So an inch or two on your arms in 30 to 60 days is basically a given.
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lol at this thread
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Larry Scott has a website. You can find some videos on YouTube.
Awwww man!
I know you could break it down for me!
I've seen his vids, I guess I didn't see anything earth-shattering.
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Uhhhhhhhhh....heh heh... uhhhhhhhhhhh... hey Beavis.... :P
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LOL @ stressing.
Guy is finally doing something that people have been raging him about for years and then they try to bring him down. Sure I think he'll fail but how many people actually step up and back up their shit around here?
I hate shit talking bench warmers.
This
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Now some are saying an 18 inch arm isn't big if one is bulky. It is only 16 inches of muscle. What a laugh.
Vince, listen...
Yes, you can "match" the size of your arm in your 1970 pictures, but for them to "match" you will have to be in the SAME bf%!!
Again, an 18 inch arm in the condition you are in NOW, is about a 16 inch arm in the condition of your 1970 photos.
To "BEAT" your former self, you will have to get in the same bf%.
Please don't argue this, or just change your experiment to "I just want 18inch arms" without the challenge of beating your 1970 condition.
They are two different challenges.
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Uhhhhhhhhh....heh heh... uhhhhhhhhhhh... hey Beavis.... :P
His spider curl and brachialis thing made sense. Maybe Arnold was right after all that the concentration curls give you more peak.
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His spider curl and brachialis thing made sense. Maybe Arnold was right after all that the concentration curls give you more peak.
According to the date of that tape Scott was 63-64 years old. I didn't realize how well he has aged.
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Casey V's arms and delts are looking pretty massive there.
I'm curious Vince, when Ray Mentzer was out there in aussieland with you back in the 80s how was he training then? He's a vid of him training Boyer probably at about the same time that you saw him.
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Vince, listen...
Yes, you can "match" the size of your arm in your 1970 pictures, but for them to "match" you will have to be in the SAME bf%!!
Again, an 18 inch arm in the condition you are in NOW, is about a 16 inch arm in the condition of your 1970 photos.
To "BEAT" your former self, you will have to get in the same bf%.
Please don't argue this, or just change your experiment to "I just want 18inch arms" without the challenge of beating your 1970 condition.
They are two different challenges.
Exactly. And Vince could get 20 inch arms with no training at all, just by stuffing his face. Completely meaningless as a comparison to 1970. Vince would have to diet HARD for 6-12 months to even get within a few % points away from his 1970 conditioning, which was real smooth by bodybuilding standards anyway. But Vince just does not get it.
BTW, his DOMS training is great for constantly inflamed muscles... great for adding some fake size. Kind of like the 1 day arm cure program.
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Exactly. And Vince could get 20 inch arms with no training at all, just by stuffing his face. Completely meaningless as a comparison to 1970. Vince would have to diet HARD for 6-12 months to even get within a few % points away from his 1970 conditioning, which was real smooth by bodybuilding standards anyway. But Vince just does not get it.
BTW, his DOMS training is great for constantly inflamed muscles... great for adding some fake size. Kind of like the 1 day arm cure program.
He's plain and simple dumb.
His "gains" will be gone once he stops his training and the inflammation heals up.
But that's how it will turn out, he will get fatter, imflammated and post his pics and tell us how we all are just dumb bodybuilders and he is right.
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Larry has retained some of his arm size because he was working out. Overall he has lost most of his size.
Of course he lost size, he's old (still looks great though). But maybe it's because Larry doesn't know the correct training theory and doesn't have access to a supinator machine. ::)
Larry is probably on hormones too. But hormones mean nothing without the right training method. ::)
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Larry Scott definitely knows his anatomy and physiology/kinesiology when it comes to training.
I was surprised at all the full extensions and cheat reps, but it obviously worked for him. I would just be real concerned about low-back injuries and such. I guess it's a good thing the skinny dude is wearing a lifting belt.
His arms are still better than many folks' and probably way better than most younger guys'
I wonder if his businesses and books have made him enough money to be comfortable?
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I guess he has earned some money. Oliva looks like a warmed up corpse. Is he ill ?
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Show us a current pic in " that " factory.
THE BEEF
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why are you being so rude to the guy?....at least he is putting himself out there..what do you look like?
cause i choose to
hope that helps
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cause i choose to
hope that helps
it helps you to be an asshole...happy with yourself???
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Here is a list of Mr. Olympia winners with at least a bachelor's degree.
Ronnie Coleman
Phil Heath
Frank Zane
The Wizard of Truth Huge Nasser El Sonbaty (uncrowned)
Lee Haney
And other prominent bodybuild fella:
Evan Centopani
Rich Gaspari
Layne Norton
Mike Katz
Melvin Anthony
Mike Mentzer
Tom Platz
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it helps you to be an asshole...happy with yourself???
Ouch!
Does this "big"mc guy even workout or is he just another one of those trolls that likes to hang around bodybuilding boards? Has he ever posted a pic?
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it helps you to be an asshole...happy with yourself???
meltdown
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meltdown
ownership
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meltdown
"Meltdown" means nothing anymore. It's an over used word employed by someone who just got owned and can't come up with a half way coherent response.
Get out of here you little turd. This thread is for someone trying to make a difference in his life and the last thing he needs is some unhappy, miserable, asshole trying to bring him down to your level of mystery. Do something with you life Kunt.
Oh, and when you reply with a "meltdown" do it with one of those nuclear bomb pics. The one with all the fire. I like fire.
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bigmc is bigger than you guys arguing with him. ;)
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"Meltdown" means nothing anymore. It's an over used word employed by someone who just got owned and can't come up with a half way coherent response.
Get out of here you little turd. This thread is for someone trying to make a difference in his life and the last thing he needs is some unhappy, miserable, asshole trying to bring him down to your level of mystery. Do something with you life Kunt.
Oh, and when you reply with a "meltdown" do it with one of those nuclear bomb pics. The one with all the fire. I like fire.
AGREED X1000
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bigmc is bigger than you guys arguing with him. ;)
maybe in body...apparently not in mind
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Here is a list of Mr. Olympia winners with at least a bachelor's degree.
Ronnie Coleman
Yeah right.... ::)
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Yeah right.... ::)
Some post or pm me this guy's pic. We'll see what kind of condition his "big" is? And if I recall correctly andreisdaman isn't exactly a tiny tit.
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I'm relatively certain that Vince and I disagree on more than a few things but I wish him all the best in this.
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Before I comment of this link sent to me insisting that this is "big"mc please someone confirm that this is indeed him. Oh boy, for his sake I hope not. Reminiscent of SquadFather. And isn't this the guy who also pokes fun at the background chatter in a person's pic ridiculing their life style? Sure this is not Calcutta India but I don't know if I'd exactly call this living large.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=193061.0;attach=373871;image)
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Ouch!
Does this "big"mc guy even workout or is he just another one of those trolls that likes to hang around bodybuilding boards? Has he ever posted a pic?
Bigmc is an old school Y guy.....def has some good size.
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Before I comment of this link sent to me insisting that this is "big"mc please someone confirm that this is indeed him. Oh boy, for his sake I hope not. Reminiscent of SquadFather. And isn't this the guy who also pokes fun at the background chatter in a person's pic ridiculing their life style? Sure this is not Calcutta India but I don't know if I'd exactly call this living large.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=193061.0;attach=373871;image)
Yup thats him even though he is much bigger now.
...the pic was a spoof on Squad.
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Before I comment of this link sent to me insisting that this is "big"mc please someone confirm that this is indeed him. Oh boy, for his sake I hope not. Reminiscent of SquadFather. And isn't this the guy who also pokes fun at the background chatter in a person's pic ridiculing their life style? Sure this is not Calcutta India but I don't know if I'd exactly call this living large.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=193061.0;attach=373871;image)
Looks like English row-housing, to me.
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Bigmc is an old school Y guy.....def has some good size.
Maybe so, and up until now he seemed to me like an OK and funny dude, but why bring down a guy pushing 70 for getting back in the gym? And then accuse anyone that supports him of (surprise) being gay and wanting to suck him off. Just let it go. It's not easy for anyone to drag their ass to the gym let alone someone who just turned 69. Basile is FINALLY putting his money where his mouth is. I like that and want to see him succeed like I want everybody to succeed. But if you are a malicious person who resent other people trying to better themselves then just STFU and go elsewhere.
And, yeah, I'm sure he weighs a lot but if that pic is really him he really doesn't look like he's in great shape and I won't even begin to comment on the background ala bigmc.
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Yeah right.... ::)
Ronnie has a B.S. in accounting from Grambling. I thought this was well-known.
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Yup thats him even though he is much bigger now.
...the pic was a spoof on Squad.
OK! That explains the window reflection pic. LOL! That's pretty funny.
Look, I never had a problem with him and he always seemed like a funny easy going guy. So it seems out of character for him to bash Vince like that and he's the one who started shit with me.
Don't make me start writing meltdown novels again. You know I'll do it.
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Anyway, you bitches have already made me late. It's beach weather baby. Gotta get wet and work on my skin cancer.
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Any updates?
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Any updates?
realized that for the challenge to meet equal standards, it had to be done in the same condition as his 1970 photos.
realized it was not just about an "arm pump" with 20% bf...challenge took on a different level.
I say just change it to "experiment to get my arms as big as i can in my CURRENT bf%" and stop the challenge of "beating my 1970 physique"
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realized that for the challenge to meet equal standards, it had to be done in the same condition as his 1970 photos.
realized it was not just about an "arm pump" with 20% bf...challenge took on a different level.
I say just change it to "experiment to get my arms as big as i can in my CURRENT bf%" and stop the challenge of "beating my 1970 physique"
which would be really pointless in regard to all the claims he made so far.
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I know that I have managed to put nearly a 1/2 inch on my arms since he started his *experiment* ~ so one would hope that he has done something "positive..."
If nothing else, he got me motivated.
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which would be really pointless in regard to all the claims he made so far.
which is why "elvis has left the building" :)
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which is why "elvis has left the building" :)
Vince Basile is on a business trip to Europe, err i mean off to Silicon Valley to crash Steve Jobs' funeral.
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Right after the Olympiad all manner of nonsense is posted on Getbig. My thread was the exception, of course. I am having a go but I swear I am taking it easy because as I get stronger the aches and pains start appearing. I don't want an injury so am proceeding cautiously. I started out with 15 reps with 5 plates in the lying triceps extensions and am now doing more reps with 7 plates. Not bad for a couple of weeks hitting the iron. I was sick for almost a week so my arm workouts have been on the 4th day. I was reading what Bruce Randall said about training arms and he felt he could train his every day and make gains. Well, those days of fast recovery are long gone for me. I go partly by how my joints and connective tissue are feeling and train accordingly. Not the best feedback but there you are. This is a bold experiment even by Getbig standards. When I have something positive to report I will post it here.
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Right after the Olympiad all manner of nonsense is posted on Getbig. My thread was the exception, of course. I am having a go but I swear I am taking it easy because as I get stronger the aches and pains start appearing. I don't want an injury so am proceeding cautiously. I started out with 15 reps with 5 plates in the lying triceps extensions and am now doing more reps with 7 plates. Not bad for a couple of weeks hitting the iron. I was sick for almost a week so my arm workouts have been on the 4th day. I was reading what Bruce Randall said about training arms and he felt he could train his every day and make gains. Well, those days of fast recovery are long gone for me. I go partly by how my joints and connective tissue are feeling and train accordingly. Not the best feedback but there you are. This is a bold experiment even by Getbig standards. When I have something positive to report I will post it here.
Remember Vince, I challenged the statement that you made when you said that age was no barrier in developing muscle size and strength and even claimed it was an advantage independent of increase training knowledge, better nutrition and better equipment. These hindrances you are experiencing (slower recovery, joint pain, reduced intensity, even the lack of motivation and drive) are simply a result of age. If I tried to match the training program I was following 15 years ago I wouldn't last 10 days. I still feel I train with far greater intensity than just about everybody I see and observe in my gym, including the competitive bodybuilders, but I have still cut back drastically on workout intensity then what I use to do. Partly it's lack of will, aversion to pain, and just being old. If I can still knock out a few force reps, some partials, maybe a drop set but I still don't do it with the same cognitive effort, the sheer force of will and drive, that I use to.
Big difference between localize recovery and systemic recovery.
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Pellius, at least it is warm where you are. We have just gone through our cool season and it really hasn't warmed up yet.
I used to post on Hypertrophy Specific Training. Bryan Haycock and others there were familiar with the latest research in exercise science but these guys were hardly what I call bodybuilders. Bryan stated that he couldn't get any bigger. I found that preposterous. I am sure I could get him bigger if he did what I told him.
Anyway, they talked about recovery and various kinds of nervous exhaustion. I really wondered about such concepts. To avoid nervous exhaustion they suggested that one avoids going to the limit in sets. Stop a rep or more from your limit. Well, I found that suggestion foolish. Why? Well, logically, it seems obvious to me that the muscles need a reason to grow. Not going to your limit is unwise because why should the muscle grow if you are not taxing it enough? It won't. Not past a certain stage. Beginners might benefit from sub-maximal training but intermediate and advanced trainees need more intensity. So I do all my sets to the maximum limit and that includes warmup sets. My reps go from about 50 down to about 10 during my triceps workouts. I stop when movement is not possible. I don't do negatives at the moment but that is another avenue I can take later if my gains stop.
The reason I am taking it easy is because I damaged my right elbow from javelin throwing. Then I aggravated the injury doing heavy pullovers with 250 pounds. I reinjured the elbows about 12 years ago during the first experiment when I placed my elbows on the pads. Don't ever do that for any kind of arm training. You will have tender elbows ever afterwards. Now I have to really warm up with several high rep light sets before I can do the heavy sets. Somehow that pump allows me to keep training heavy and it astonishes me that the body can do that. However, who knows how much further damage is being done to the connective tissue? I still feel my muscles can grow rapidly, even at my age. Time will tell if I can pull this one off. I have 11 and 1/2 months to go.
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Vince good job keep it up, its never too late to turn pro
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Vince, I had no idea you believe in training to failure and even use intensity variables (negatives). When I first started training formal weight training in the early 70s I got all my info from the muscle mags and everything was about number of sets (the more the better) and the pump. When I was 18, already out on my own supporting myself working as a security guard at an up scale condo The Esplanade, one of the the residents, Hank Grundman, who had recently opened a Nautilus Training Facility on the island. He saw some hint that I lifted weights and we had talks about training. That's when he told me he owned a gym and explained the principles of the Nautilus machines and it's training theories. Of course, I ate all this all up and hung on his every word. After one of our conversations he came back about fifteen minutes later and he gave me a book. Just a medium size red cover book with a picture on the cover of some ordinary person and some machine I had never seen and no idea what it was for. He told if I read that book I'll know more about resistance training than 90% of the people out there. That's all I needed to know and immediately started devouring the book. The little book changed my life and my whole view on weight training. Everything seemed to make so much logical sense. It was a series of bulletins written by a man named Arthur Jones. Soon after that Mike Mentzer came on the scene and told about his experiences with Jones. I read and followed everyone of his articles. The rest is history.
Edit: I just googled Hank Grundman Nautilus and found that he was very involved and the first sponsor of the original IronMan event held in Hawaii. He's mentioned in the second paragraph in this article.
http://irunmaude.blogspot.com/2009/04/history-of-ironmanthe-beginning.html
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Vince, I had no idea you believe in training to failure and even use intensity variables (negatives). When I first started training formal weight training in the early 70s I got all my info from the muscle mags and everything was about number of sets (the more the better) and the pump. When I was 18, already out on my own supporting myself working as a security guard at an up scale condo The Esplanade, one of the the residents, Hank Grundman, who had recently opened a Nautilus Training Facility on the island. He saw some hint that I lifted weights and we had talks about training. That's when he told me he owned a gym and explained the principles of the Nautilus machines and it's training theories. Of course, I ate all this all up and hung on his every word. After one of our conversations he came back about fifteen minutes later and he gave me a book. Just a medium size red cover book with a picture on the cover of some ordinary person and some machine I had never seen and no idea what it was for. He told if I read that I'll know more about resistance training than 90% of the people out there. That's all I needed to know and immediately started devouring the book. The little book changed my life and my whole view on weight training. Everything seemed to make so much logical sense. It was a series of bulletins written by a man named Arthur Jones. Soon after that Mike Mentzer came on the scene and told about his experiences with Jones. I read and followed everyone of his articles. The rest is history.
Edit: I just googled Hank Grundman Nautilus and found that he was very involved and the first sponsor of the original IronMan event held in Hawaii. He's mentioned in the second paragraph in this article.
http://irunmaude.blogspot.com/2009/04/history-of-ironmanthe-beginning.html
I'm curious man, are you familiar with AJ's and Mentzer's later training recommendations ie. ultra low volume and training frequency? And if so, what are your thoughts on their final training recommendations?
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While Ray Mentzer certainly maintained his large physique with brief, intense and heavy workouts I doubt many can get his size through that process. Arthur was mistaken about how muscles contract and he seemed to have ignored the sliding filament theory. Well, he dismissed all of the exercise scientists in those days. If you are mistaken about how muscles contract then it is unlikely that you will find the right theory for hypertrophy. At best, Arthur found part of it but he did influence many people who trained. He definitely influenced exercise machine designs and what a good effect that was.
Ellington Darden is continuing the HIT or high intensity training methods on his site. I honestly don't believe it is right. Sure, you can make some gains using it and some people swear by it. However, I doubt it will lead to maximum hypertrophy. Larry Scott was around before Arthur and he had a vastly different method for hypertrophy. I think many of us combined what Larry wrote with what Arthur was saying. Looking back I am sure that is why I fell short. Big muscles are good at doing multiple sets of a reasonably heavy weight. We found out a long time ago that strength goes up with size but not necessarily in proportion. Some strong guys were not that big. Mike MacDonald could bench over 600 pounds but his arms were about 16 1/2 inches. The vast majority of huge bodybuilders got that way doing volume with reasonably heavy resistances. That is the forumula in a nutshell. I think most of the big guys ended up training bodyparts twice a week. Doing high intensity brief workouts is not going to build superman muscles. You will probably get injured long before you reach your goal.
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I'm curious man, are you familiar with AJ's and Mentzer's later training recommendations ie. ultra low volume and training frequency? And if so, what are your thoughts on their final training recommendations?
I didn't hear much from Jones after he sold Nautilus. I just remember one comment he made about the adjustments he would make to his original theory and that was, not surprisingly, to train less. I think he recommended training twice a week one body part/week.
Mentzer, with his consolidation program just simply went off the deep end. No matter what claims he made about his clients, it was never substantiated. Those that did give it an honest go, like Brian Johnson, said what everybody else said that lived in the real world, and that was most did gain strength but they actually lost muscle and got horrible soft and out of shape.
That confirmed what I was beginning to suspect from personal experience: that though there is a correlation between size and strength there is often not a direct causation. One can indeed get stronger in the sense of moving more weight, but more is involved in moving weight than just bigger muscles. But it is absolutely true that the bigger the muscle the stronger it will be. So one must strive for progression but you absolutely must vary the stimuli. But even then, even under perfect conditions: perfect training, perfect diet, perfect recovery..., you reach a sticking point pretty quick. The human body for most is simply not designed to carry a lot of muscle mass. And there is a good reason for it. You can be big and fat or lean and small naturally. For the average person, when they see a lean body -- lean enough so you can see all the muscle clearly defined -- they think you are big (never in clothes, though). I thought Bruce Lee was huge. When I first saw him flexing in the movies I thought he looked just like those guys in the muscle mags. I think it's just more common to see big doughy guys then sharply ripped ones where the muscles are clearly visible. So it has more of a shock value and more impressive to the untrained eye.
At 5'7" 140lbs this guy was considered to be very muscular and was known as Little Hercules.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRv7mpYTpmggxSK_x1yNlgXxpDTQgL0a0hQvAyXLlMaCYNqQMwyQg)
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Pellius is continuing the debate so I will respond to things he has posted. Let us accept that he is above average in intelligence, education and experience. While young and impressionable he met a gym owner who clued him in about hypertrophy training. The bible in those days was written by Arthur Jones. It was logical, detailed, and convincing. Everything Arthur said made sense and fit into his overall ideas about intensity being the trigger for more hypertrophy. Arthur had amply demonstrated his methods on a huge Sergio Oliva who grew even bigger while Arthur was training him. If we needed proof that Nautilus methods worked then that had to be it. The Colorado Experiment involving a deconditioned Casey Viator impressed hardly anyone in the Irongame. Muscle memory, maybe drugs and genetics helped explain his amazing gains in one month. He was supposed to have lost bodyfat but the photos aren't convincing.
Just about everyone who was training in the 60s-70s was influenced by what Arthur Jones wrote. Heck, people even read his ads in IronMan Magazine. Arthur used Hans Selye's Stress theory to convince us that we needed time to recover. That was a fact of physiology and no one disputed this claim. Along came Mike Mentzer and Ellington Darden who developed Arthur's system for their readers. At the time it appeared that HIT would replace the 'conventional' method because it was more effective and more efficient. In other words, HIT worked and you spent less time in the gym. The smart guys embraced HIT while the knuckleheads were unconvinced and stuck with what they knew. This included Arnold. HIT didn't dominate and today it is a minor method compared to the various volume methods.
Bodybuilders might collectively be a bit thick but they have a lot of experience and they repeat what works for them. Hypertrophy might be relatively easy to obtain if you persist for several years in a gym. In the old days it took perhaps 10 years to be big enough to win some contests. Of course, there were a few exceptions and they were big relatively young. Casey Viator was huge at 19. Arnold was huge at 19. However, the vast majority of bodybuilders had to struggle to get to the intermediate level and few transcended it to be advanced bodybuilders. Yes, steroids did enter the picture in those years and by 1970 you had to use them to win a national contest. It was a reckless thing to do because the medical profession insisted they didn't work and they had dangerous side effects and might even cause cancer. The vast majority of bodybuilders in the 60s gave steroids a miss. I am talking about people training at home and in hardcore gyms. Eventually everyone noticed that the big guys weren't dropping dead so the side effect myth was dismissed more or less. In those days you seldom saw anyone with gynocomastia. That is because most guys were going off the steroids and were supervised by doctors. Testosterone was not something anyone would take because of the virilizing effects. Stacking was pretty much unheard of. Dianabol and Decadurabolin were the drugs of choice in LA. Those who did not like injections never found out what Deca could do for them. After I won the Mr Canada contest in 1970 in Vancouver, I met Dr Michael Walczak and he told me I could be Mr Universe within 6 months by following his treatments and training hard in LA. I never accepted his invitation and I never won Mr Universe, either! He was the doctor that many of the muscleheads used in LA for their gear.
Nautilus Machines were popular in America and elsewhere and Arthur became a multi-millionaire through that business. The muscleheads pretty much ignored his advices and stuck to what worked in the gym. At Golds in Venice they had many of the major manufacturers donate equipment lines because potential franchaise owners would go there to select gym equipment. The Nautilus machines were installed in the second room and you never had to wait to use them. It was a different story for Flex, Icanian and Hammer equipment. Somehow the Nautilus machines were not embraced by the bodybuilders. They insisted that free weights were the core for successful bodybuilding. Of course they needed machines for calves and legs so these were used to good effect at Golds and elsewhere. Arthur was unable to convince the muscleheads and out of frustration Arthur wiped his hands of these dummies and concentrated on sports and general training. He sold Nautilus then opened Medx and came out with a new line of machines. Again, the muscleheads more or less did what they have always done. Free weights, pulleys and some machines for legs. The Hammer machines were liked but in truth, only a few were really effective. Gym owners thought the whole line must be good so today you see many of these machines that hardly anyone uses. The chest machines established them as excellent machines and that gave the whole line a reputation.
Is it any wonder that the vast majority of bodybuilders are confused? Whatever are they supposed to believe? Everyone who lifts weights will read some of the muscle magazines. In addition there are publications galore about bodybuilding and most people have read a few of these as well. That is why just about everyone who lifts weights believes he needs more protein and other supplements. That isn't what is written for graduate students in nutrition at our best universities. No matter, these beliefs are passed on via word of mouth and reinforced through the impressive ads in magazines. If you look up to someone in a gym and he is way bigger than you then you tend to accept what he says about training. You also watch what he does and eventually you copy his exact exercises. That is why I still see guys doing triceps pressdowns with those ropes. A total waste of time but they do this. Instead of using the ab machines many will use the rope and do kneeling crunches. Ah, so many waste so much time and effort in gyms. The raw and inescapable truth is clearly that the vast majority of trainees are NOT growing at any one time. Why is this? If methods evolve and you accept what works for you then how come you remain on plateaus for most of the year? Not many can explain this phenomenon. HIT experts insist trainees need more rest to recover. Mike Mentzer trained people and reported that everyone grew better when he scheduled workouts to be further apart. Sometimes he would have them training a bodypart once every two weeks. The rank and file musclehead dismisses this as hogwash. The general consensus is to train a bodypart twice a week. Once really hard and the other to get a pump.
Let us look at hypertrophy training from a logical point of view. I think it has to be accepted as self-evident that the muscle will grow if and only if it has a reason to do so. There is an equivalence principle in hypertrophy. You can do several things that will stimulate muscle growth. For calves, you can go for a long hike. You can put a backpack on and walk up and down hills. You can do various protocols in the gym with machines or partners. Many methods can result in hypertrophy. What bodybuilders have discovered is some methods are better than others. Thus, gym training is superior to other methods to build muscle. It all comes down to getting direct mechanical tension on a target muscle for a certain length of time and of a certain intensity. You repeat this process at intervals and use progressive resistance to give the muscles a reason to grow.
A reason to grow = hypertrophy stimulus. A problem for HIT enthusiasts is known as the RBE or Repeated Bout Effect. Scientists found that high intensity training would result in adaptations that would persist. If you retrained a muscle with the same protocol say in a week then nothing further would happen in the muscle. It already adapted to that protocol and no further adaptation was possible. How then to get around this frustrating problem?
We need to visit HST to see what they say about exercise science. Hypertrophy Specific Training is owned by Bryan Haycock. That is what we all are trying to do. He and his associates have read the exercise literature and come up with principles that work. According to them protein synthesis is completed in the muscles approximately 36 hours after a workout. For practical reasons they suggest training a muscle every 48 hours. If we take this principle and incorporate it then that means retraining muscles every second day. The trouble is that this isn't what we find the really big guys doing. So what gives here? Unfortunately, much of the stuff done by the pros is contaminated because they use drugs and plenty of them. They can recover from workouts that might put a natural in the hospital.
Training every 48 hours might avoid the repeated bout effect. If so then this is another reason to embrace this schedule. Is there anything else we can consider? Yes, and this is the feedback we get from growing tissue. Those of us who have had a layoff know that we get sore when we hit the gym again. Everyone knows this and it is an unpleasant experience. There has been a lot of research to find ways to lessen or avoid the DOMS soreness. DOMS stands for Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. It appears on the day after hard training and can persist for several days. Some experts suggest waiting for the soreness to evaporate before training the muscle again. The worry is that one might damage a sore muscle. Well, that is pure speculation. I wondered about this and used a thought experiment for the answer. Suppose our ancient ancesters in Africa went out hunting one day and encountered an animal and a struggle followed that left the man totally exhausted and without any food. The next day this guy would awake and have very sore muscles. Would he be able to go out and encounter another animal and get food to survive? Clearly this must be possible. So, even though sore from an intense event it is still possible to exert the muscles in a maximum fashion. Our survival depended on this capacity. Thus, the bodybuilder with sore muscles can retrain them after a day with no worries at all. The repeated bout effect will be avoided and perhaps it is easier to keep a muscle sore than to get it sore. If soreness is a side-effect of muscle hypertrophy then sustaining the soreness will stimulate more growth. It is possible to do this for weeks at a time and have rapid growth during this time. For evidence we go to the fowl experiments of Dr Jose Antonio. He was able to cause the anterior latisimus dorsi muscle of his experimental birds to grow 300% in one month! He added resistance to one wing every 3rd day. That is also the likely optimal time to retrain a muscle. There is sufficient time for healing and growth in the two rest days. It may be that different muscles need different schedules. There is evidence that many bodybuilders have had success with training calves daily or even every second day.
What I am writing here are conjectures based on personal experience. Ultimately it is pure anecdote as far as science goes. That doesn't mean it is unlikely to be true. Only that there is no compelling supporting evidence that it is true. Pellius and the other resident experts will assess what is written here via their personal beliefs, ideas, methods and experience. I am claiming that this method has not been systematically tried by scientists or muscleheads. It is something new and it makes bold predictions. It can explain why the vast majority of bodybuilders are not growing. It can explain why most grow imperceptibly slowly taking many years to see results.
At the moment I am proceeding in the experiment and have progressed reasonably well so far. Remember that I tore a right biceps doing a stupid deadlift in 1977. I was trying to set a gym record and tore the biceps so that I can't do supination any more with any resistance. Curse those deadlifts. Don't do them. And don't see how much you can lift. Ronnie Coleman and Dorian Yates both lifted too heavy and paid the price for being reckless. I also have sore elbows and so arm training is a delicate process. As I advance and use heavier resistances I am risking injury. Pellius was surprised that I always go to my limit in every set I do. Again, you have to give the muscle a reason to be bigger. Heck, you have to give it a reason to stay the same size. That is all that most guys do when training in the gym. No soreness = no rapid growth. To test if this is true try to get your biceps sore and see if they grow. Hard to do but you will be delighted at the growth. What I have been doing is warming up thoroughly then staying at the maximum resistance for up to 6 sets. I rest plenty between sets so that I can still do over 10 reps. By the 3rd set you will usually find the reps have decreased. If you start at 20 reps you will be down to 10 by the 3rd set. Not sure what that is but it always happens to me. If you take short rests then you won't be able to do many reps at all. When you have stimulated hypertrophy your muscle will be swollen, hard, and you will be sweating and shaking during your hard reps. There is no easy way to get bigger muscles. The bigger the muscle, then more effort will be required to make it grow.
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Dont you have better things to do at "69" than arguing with guys half or less you age and creating "online logs"? ::)
I love when someone asks this question. I can't speak for Vince, but being retired and 67 years old myself, I have more time on my hands than I would hope you younger folks would have to jack around on the Internet. So to me the real question should be, are some younger folks here so lacking a life that they spend excessive amounts of time posting often unpleasant and hateful messages on an Internet forum?
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I said I thought I could still build muscle at my age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever. I am into the experiment now and completed my 4th arm workout today. Training only arms at the moment. Biceps and triceps supersets. Ending in 6 sets with the maximum resistance. Progressing rapidly which is almost scary! Mostly regaining some of my former size. I am confident I can get bigger arms than I have previouly had. Should be an interesting experiment. I will show you guys because I need a strong incentive to keep this training going. So far there is no hint of any diminished response to hypertrophy training. This is what I predicted for myself. I can't say it would be the same for everyone else. I won't even consider using any drugs or supplements. This is a purely natural experiment to show what is possible as one gets older.
Are you still only training arms, Vince? How often do you train them and for how long? Don't you think that "muscle memory" will kick in an be responsible for some of your initial gains?
I train my whole body, each muscle group only once per week. Of course my arms aren't where I'd like them to be by a long shot but then, neither is any other part of my body.
I don't know about you, I started training as a really skinny teenager. In my mind's eye, I am still that same skinny kid only fifty years older despite that I weigh 215 @ 5'11" with (my guess) about 12% body-fat. Size was and is still my main goal. I actually panic when I don't train and start losing weight, which is exactly what happens if I don't train.
Some young dudes on Getbig think you have to be under thirty or forty if you're bodybuilding. I cannot wait for them to walk in my gym shoes. There are some dudes at my gym ten years older than I am and they are still there training several days a week. They don't look like their old bodybuilding photos up on the wall anymore, but they still look jacked compared to other guys their age. That's my inspiration!
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I won't take vitamins or any other supplements. Should sound crazy to most muscle heads.
Not taking vitamins does sound a bit crazy to me. Does this also mean you aren't supplementing diet with some protein powder? There is no way I can eat enough protein to grow if I don't have a couple or three protein drinks a day. My appetite just isn't that big.
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bla bla bla bla bla
Did not read your bullshit, but you really look great in that shot, what was your cycle, training and diet then?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=433980;image)
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Most bodybuilders don't age that well. Those who keep up the training can retain some of their size but many lose that hypertrophy. When I was in my prime there were several guys who impressed me. Larry Scott, Sergio Oliva, Casey Viator and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Arnold has lost much of his former size. Even his calves have shrunk. Sergio has wasted away. Larry still has some biceps but looks small in clothes. Casey still has big arms and huge forearms but looks very bulky. He is much younger than I am. Casey is the exception possibly because he still lifts heavy and regularly.
Judging from these photos, in my opinion, Larry Scott looks the best. Of course, unlike the photo of Arnold, Larry is clothed....so this may not be an absolutely fair comparison. Still Larry looks healthy and fit, Arnold, not so much.
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Did not read your bullshit, but you really look great in that shot, what was your cycle, training and diet then?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=433980;image)
X2. Stats? Height and weight? (No homo, good lord no homo!)
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X2. Stats? Height and weight? (No homo, good lord no homo!)
For a 70s physique, if Basile hadn't been too great a pussy and do more steroids, he could have really gone somewhere.
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For a 70s physique, if Basile hadn't been too great a pussy and do more steroids, he could have really gone somewhere.
Agreed
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vince what if you can't get sore? literally, no matter what i do, i can't get sore on some muscles (biceps, for example).
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vince what if you can't get sore? literally, no matter what i do, i can't get sore on some muscles (biceps, for example).
Then you are doomed and can't build muscle.
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vince what if you can't get sore? literally, no matter what i do, i can't get sore on some muscles (biceps, for example).
If you can't generate DOMS then you are unlikely to grow rapidly. You can still grow like everyone else and eventually get somewhere.
What I looked for was a method to save years from that journey. Biceps are difficult to get sore. I accept and know that. My point is
IF you can get them sore they should grow rapidly if you can keep them sore.
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Not taking vitamins does sound a bit crazy to me. Does this also mean you aren't supplementing diet with some protein powder? There is no way I can eat enough protein to grow if I don't have a couple or three protein drinks a day. My appetite just isn't that big.
No, I am taking no supplements. No vitamins, no minerals and definitely no protein. I get what I need from what I choose to eat which includes regular trips to MacDonalds and Hungry Jacks with an occasional Family Feast from KFC. That is it. I want to prove that the nutrition information in gyms and online is total nonsense. Remember, believing something doesn't make it true.
About muscle memory. According to the experts on Getbig guys my age can't build large muscles. So how can muscle memory function? I think we regain our muscles quicker because we know how to train them. Of course the repeated bout effect could be partly what that muscle memory is. I haven't seen this concept in the literature but it is believed by the musclemen.
Yes, I am training only arms at the moment. I discovered that the whole upper body improves when I do this. Such training goes against what most believe but there you are. I found out because I don't like training that much and when I did only arms my upper body also grew. If you saw me going to the limit for all my sets you would realize that I put in a big effort and the stabilizers have to work hard, too. Like I said, you have to be willing to throw out some of your basic beliefs about muscles and training if you are going to accept what I say. Since most people will die with their false ideas that isn't going to happen so most will not even read what I post.
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I can put anyone through a workout that will make them sore the next day. I don't care who you are or how long you have been training. There are so many ways to create D.O.M.S in a muscle that it would be nearly impossible for it *not* to happen.
All I would have to do is take a close look at what you have been doing up to this point. It's about that simple.
This means that for everyone my approach would probably be different because ~ you have all been doing something different (one from the other)
Too bad I couldn't throw out the challenge (as I just did) AND make some $$$$ at the same time.
It's not rocket science.
Pretty good read Vince. You even used the word "advices" ~ highly impressive. You must have been jesting.
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vince what if you can't get sore? literally, no matter what i do, i can't get sore on some muscles (biceps, for example).
If you really believe this nonsense, and you have been trying everything under the sun...
Do this first: Take a break.
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Vince, you have kind of dodged the obvious ever since it was brought up, so I will ask you directly...
do you now acknowledge the fact that to, quote: "match the arm size of my 1970 physique" that you will need to be in that same body fat%?
A reminder that building your arms to the same tap measurement in your current bf% (20+% ?) to that of the bf% seen in your 1970 pictures is NO comparison.
If you can acknowledge this without a defensive rant like I have just said something about your children, that would be great.
Then I ask, quote: "I will show all of you"
"show all of you" WHAT, exactly?
Lessen your "experiment" and the ego and you will gain the same respect.
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Did not read your bullshit, but you really look great in that shot, what was your cycle, training and diet then?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=433980;image)
Bump for answers.
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Look, I am a bodybuilder so of course I will be in a similar condition to what I was in 70 and 75. That might be more difficult than getting similar size. Since turning 50 I discovered that I lost muscle first when I dieted. In 1970 I lost 20 pounds bodyweight in 2 weeks. No way I could accomplish that today. So, yes, it sucks getting old. Vision, hearing, tanning ability, strength, libido and hair diminish. Goodness knows what else in on the decline. So it is nice to know hypertrophy can still occur. That really is a gift from our ancestors.
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I will be in a similar condition to what I was in 70 and 75.
How long do you give yourself to be in the same bf% and same arm size as the 1970 pics?
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Look, I am a bodybuilder so of course I will be in a similar condition to what I was in 70 and 75. That might be more difficult than getting similar size. Since turning 50 I discovered that I lost muscle first when I dieted. In 1970 I lost 20 pounds bodyweight in 2 weeks. No way I could accomplish that today. So, yes, it sucks getting old. Vision, hearing, tanning ability, strength, libido and hair diminish. Goodness knows what else in on the decline. So it is nice to know hypertrophy can still occur. That really is a gift from our ancestors.
answer my question, please.
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Bump for answers.
I'm curious too. Vince, you look very good there.
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Very though provoking post. This is the Vince I like. Just being around for as long as you have and keeping your eyes and ears open you pick up some things. Things worth listening to.
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For a 70s physique, if Basile hadn't been too great a pussy and do more steroids, he could have really gone somewhere.
Actually, it's when Dr. Walczak realized that Vince wasn't going to go ghey for him.
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Actually, it's when Dr. Walczak realized that Vince wasn't going to go ghey for him.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Mike lost interest in helping me after I invited him home for dinner.....to meet my wife. Actually, I was more interested in getting help for acne. I won a title and that was enough. I didn't particularly want to take huge risks just for another title and trophy. Looking back now it all seems rather shallow and without merit but I guess I am glad I did it. In those days there was just one title holder unlike today when all manner of class winners can claim the title. There is no one Mr Australia any more. Lots of guys can claim that title....natural and untested.
I really wanted to live in Los Angeles and have a go there. My ex couldn't work in California as a nurse and I didn't want to go to Texas. In retrospect, I guess I made a good decision to emigrate to Australia. It suits me down here although the men don't befriend foreigners. Thank goodness the women here actually prefer guys from overseas. Black dudes have a field day in Australia.
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Did not read your bullshit, but you really look great in that shot, what was your cycle, training and diet then?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=433980;image)
In 1975 I trained for the Mr Australia contest in Melbourne. I challenged Robert Nailon so had to compete. I took 2 Dianabol per day for several months with breaks between bottles. I think I used
200 tablets all up.
I trained bodyparts twice per week but didn't take supplements. I had trouble gaining weight because I was a full time PE teacher and I ran my gym every night until 9 pm. I would workout
for half an hour each session after the gym closed. I never trained while members were in the gym. I literally had to force feed myself to put on weight. I was about 220 pounds before I dieted down. I am two
weeks out in that photo and was weighing about 205 pounds. I competed at about 190. Someone stole the slides from the contest so I don't have any photos of me competing. Arnold and
Paul Graham put me last and I have a letter that proves they fixed the contest. What dickheads both those jerks were.
I was quite strong then and did a standing press with 270 pounds. I benched 400 while weighing 200 pounds just before the contest.
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In 1975 I trained for the Mr Australia contest in Melbourne. I challenged Robert Nailon so had to compete. I took 2 Dianabol per day for several months with breaks between bottles. I think I used
200 tablets all up.
I trained bodyparts twice per week but didn't take supplements. I had trouble gaining weight because I was a full time PE teacher and I ran my gym every night until 9 pm. I would workout
for half an hour each session. I never trained while members were in the gym. I literally had to force feed myself to put on weight. I was about 220 pounds before I dieted down. I am two
weeks out in that photo and was weighing about 205 pounds. I competed at about 190. Someone stole the slides from the contest so I don't have any photos of me competing. Arnold and
Paul Graham put me last and I have a letter that proves they fixed the contest. What dickheads both those jerks were.
I was quite strong then and did a standing presss with 270 pounds. I benched 400 while weighing 200 pounds just before the contest.
Props, looks really good.
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I am training only arms at the moment. I discovered that the whole upper body improves when I do this.
Really? I did my own little arm experiment a few months back, and I basically only trained arms and delts (via. side raises) and my arms and delts did grow a bit, but I had absolutely no growth in my torso ie. chest and back. My arms went from 14 and 3/4 inches to 15 and 3/8 inches.
Recently I've been doing a standard routine of squats, rows, and benches, and my torso and legs have gotten bigger, but my arms got smaller and they are now back down to 14 and 3/4 inches :'( So basically what I learned is that the muscles need direct stimulation in order to grow, at least in my experience.
Anyways, good luck with your experiment and thanks for the feedback about AJ and the Mentzers.
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I took 2 Dianabol per day
you look very good in pic, is that '75?
were the dbols 50mg?
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Post that *letter*
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you look very good in pic, is that '75?
were the dbols 50mg?
;D ;D ;D ;D
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I am having a go but I swear I am taking it easy because as I get stronger the aches and pains start appearing. I don't want an injury so am proceeding cautiously. I started out with 15 reps with 5 plates in the lying triceps extensions and am now doing more reps with 7 plates. Not bad for a couple of weeks hitting the iron. I was sick for almost a week so my arm workouts have been on the 4th day. I was reading what Bruce Randall said about training arms and he felt he could train his every day and make gains. Well, those days of fast recovery are long gone for me. I go partly by how my joints and connective tissue are feeling and train accordingly. Not the best feedback but there you are. This is a bold experiment even by Getbig standards. When I have something positive to report I will post it here.
How you feel is actually the best measure of what you should be doing with your workouts. So, in my opinion, that is the best feedback. No one else can feel what your body feels. Stay in touch when those feelings and train accordingly and you should be fine. I will say that most mature folks I know who work out believe that it does take longer to recover than it did when they were younger. I know that my body responds well to the routine I am doing where I give myself a whole week to recover before repeating an exercise.
Earlier this year, I was feeling some shoulder pain in my left shoulder. I dropped the weight down some and upped the reps, plus adding more warm ups on delt day and eventually the shoulder pain subsided. I must be doing something right since I have never had a major injury, nor have I ever had any surgeries....knee, shoulder or otherwise.
-Caught a cold from my grandson this week. This is day four of the frigging cold. Have not been to the gym since Monday in order to concerve all my energy to wipe out this virus. I am hoping I can work out today. This sitting around, blowing my nose and coughing is getting me down! Been popping Cold-Eeze every two hours, extra zinc and vitamin C in the mornings and evenings. Either the cold dies or I do. LOL! Lost about five pounds....I always lose weight when I am not working out.
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Good old Dianabol. As far as I know the tablets were standard Ciba 5mg each. In the early 70s guys would ask mates if they could get some gear. In Sydney nothing much happened if you didn't know the right people. Eventually a gym member called Chicken Legs said he got his from a pharmacist at Kings Cross. The pharmacist was Asian. When I visited his pharmacy he said, "People walk up and down Kings Cross all night long looking for Dianabol!" You have to say that with an Asian accent to get the effect. Other guys went to see a Sports Medicine Clinic at Lewisham because Dr Tony Miller was sympathetic to those using steroids and would usually supervise them while prescribing the drugs. An associate got into trouble in later decades because the muscleheads were going to him and telling him what to get them. This included Vet products. The Royal Commission blasted the good doctor on two points. Prescribing drugs for people who were not ill and for prescribing Vet products for humans. Naughty doctor. His excuse was that the muscleheads were going to take them anyway and it was preferable that they be supervised and also get the proper products. In truth, the doctor should have been congratulated. Instead, they followed the USA and banned these products. They still haven't banned Botox and other procedures that are prescribed for people who are not sick. How in the hell did breast reduction get okayed by the medical profession?
My ex has the letter proving that Arnold and Paul Graham fixed the 1975 Mr Australia so that I would come last. I have asked for it a couple of times but she claims she can't be bothered looking for it. One of the annoying things about being divorced. She packed all my books and magazines in about 20 big boxes that I have yet to unpack. That was over 11 years ago! I recommend that sensible people have contracts lasting only 3 years for a marriage. Never buy anything jointly but one or the other owns whatever is bought. Easy to split property if you separate. Your motto should always be: Trust in God, but tie your camel. In other words, you can't trust human beings and definitely not ginas.
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About this idea of going by how you feel. What does that mean? Many things and maybe nothing much at all. Sometimes you feel like Hercules only to be flat in the workout. On other days you feel like crap but have a great workout. The little aches and pains in the muscles and connective tissue are trickier to assess. When you consider that a stimulating workout causes micro-damage in muscle fibres then of course your muscles are going to feel injured after working out. The connective tissue takes a beating, too. You get to recognize the sharp, acute pain that signals a muscle tear. When that happens you stop training right then and there. Other niggling little pains are harder to assess. Before I tore my right biceps doing a heavy deadlift with 509 pounds I used to get sore on the inside of the elbow just below the biceps. This would happen when I was teaching PE and I could get sore after throwing javelins or even footballs or softballs. I would have to fill the sink with warm to hot water until the pain subsided. So maybe I had accumulated all manner of small injuries in my biceps and that became a weak link. Of course, my hand grip was palm upwards for the right hand for that heavy deadlift and the muscle tore in two. Well, I now have a Unicep because the supinating link has gone. There was a gap there and I had surgery a couple of years later but it was too late and nothing could be done. That is why I tell knuckleheads never do heavy deadlifts. I can see absolutely no point in doing them. Use other exercises. If you insist on doing them then keep your palms facing your body and never the other way around. Dorian Yates tore a biceps but I don't know the details. No doubt he was lifting some heavy iron to cause that tear. Many guys have blown pecs with really heavy bench presses. If you do explosive benches with over 450 pounds you are asking for trouble. Do sets of 10 to 15 reps and you should be okay.
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About this idea of going by how you feel. What does that mean?....
Clearly, you know what it means. You can't be as intune with your body as you seem to be without knowing. It is simply learning to pay attention to what your body tells you....there will always be folks who ignore all the signs and end up doing damage. You've been there. You know better....or you should.
As for your other post. I have past and positive experience with D-bol. However, I was under a legitimate doctor's care when I was prescribed D-bol and initially weekly booster testosterone shots. The last time I went on a short cycle of D-bol was about fifteen years ago and I bought it over the Internet. Never-the-less, I still only took the low dose my doctor had previously prescribed me (5 mg a day). This was enough to jump start my gains but not enough to turn me into a freak.
I don't have experience with divorce. I've only been married once and am still married to the same woman after nearly 47 years. Can't imagine we will be getting a divorce anytime soon. It must be the shits when one goes though a divorce. However, a lot of our books and other stuff is in boxes in the attic too. This summer, our daughter and grandson moved home while her husband is deployed to Afghanistan. We packed up the bookcases in the loft to make room for their stuff.
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Clearly, you know what it means. You can't be as intune with your body as you seem to be without knowing. It is simply learning to pay attention to what your body tells you....there will always be folks who ignore all the signs and end up doing damage. You've been there. You know better....or you should.
I never joke when I discuss bodybuilding or gym equipment. I can joke when discussing some bodybuilders, however.
Just when is a muscle injured or is the damage indicative of hypertrophy? I honestly don't know the answer. Since I tore my right biceps I get little sharp pains from time to time. Like yesterday when I did my first set of biceps curls on the converted Nautilus Biceps machine. I turn my palms sideways so that I do mostly Brachialis and not biceps. If I put my palms facing upwards I get sharp pains. Yesterday I got those sharp pains in the right biceps. Usually I would stop. Because of this experiment I decided to do another light set. Thankfully, the pain dissipated and I got to workout using my usual resistance in the final sets.
I often have sharp pain in my elbows from time to time. Especially if I accidentally put pressure on the elbows lying down on a bed.
What I am saying is that pain can appear now and then that signals some damage to tissue somewhere in that bodypart. What exactly is damaged and by how much can't always be known. What we don't want is to ignor little signals that might preceed major tears. All I can say is that I get more pain the bigger I get because I am using heavier weight and I have to make a bigger effort to complete the last couple of reps for many sets. I don't reduce the resistance. This is a severe way to train. That could partly be why the rest of my upper body responds and grows a bit, too.
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Why did Paul and Arnold want you to place last? Also, is the "Paul" you speak of one of the person's Arnold shakes hands with in the beginning of Pumping Iron?
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Why did Paul and Arnold want you to place last? Also, is the "Paul" you speak of one of the person's Arnold shakes hands with in the beginning of Pumping Iron?
They had this weird notion of placing the physiques in order from best to worst....go figure.
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I never joke when I discuss bodybuilding or gym equipment. I can joke when discussing some bodybuilders, however.
Just when is a muscle injured or is the damage indicative of hypertrophy? I honestly don't know the answer. Since I tore my right biceps I get little sharp pains from time to time. Like yesterday when I did my first set of biceps curls on the converted Nautilus Biceps machine. I turn my palms sideways so that I do mostly Brachialis and not biceps. If I put my palms facing upwards I get sharp pains. Yesterday I got those sharp pains in the right biceps. Usually I would stop. Because of this experiment I decided to do another light set. Thankfully, the pain dissipated and I got to workout using my usual resistance in the final sets.
I often have sharp pain in my elbows from time to time. Especially if I accidentally put pressure on the elbows lying down on a bed.
What I am saying is that pain can appear now and then that signals some damage to tissue somewhere in that bodypart. What exactly is damaged and by how much can't always be known. What we don't want is to ignor little signals that might preceed major tears. All I can say is that I get more pain the bigger I get because I am using heavier weight and I have to make a bigger effort to complete the last couple of reps for many sets. I don't reduce the resistance. This is a severe way to train. That could partly be why the rest of my upper body responds and grows a bit, too.
-Never thought you were joking. Perhaps some folks are either more in touch with their bodies response to stressors or they are simply more reactive to those little unknowns, such as some of the pain you describe. I know the difference between my muscles feeling a little sore and my having done some more serious damage to them. However, I should be really clear that I am not now nor have I ever been inclined to test my bodies ability to withstand excessive stressors (weights). At least with lifting, I am patient enough to slowly progress and hopefully make some gains along the way. My goal is to simply look and be fit. You clearly have bigger goals than that.
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Ah, the 1975 Mr Australia contest. Well, where to start. I was a judge in the Mr South Pacific Contest about 1972 or 73. I placed John Koziura ahead of Paul Graham and I think some other judges did the same thing and Paul wasn't pleased because he lost that contest. He also didn't like that I placed Robert Deigan ahead of him in the Mr NSW contest in 1972. So I guess he used the Mr Australia in 1975 to get even with me.
There was a Mr NSW a couple of weeks before the Nationals in 1975 and Robert Nailon won the contest over Hans Meyer. Hans was superior to Robert in my opinion. Arnold and other mates of Robert judged that contest and when the winner was announced booing erupted from the back of the hall. Paul always had a get-together after the contest and provided some food for the contestants. I wasn't pleased with the contest so didn't attend. Andrew Shigelski from my gym went because Arnold was there. We had Arnold at our gym the year before and he came to my place for dinner with Paul afterwards. Anyway, they accused Andrew of booing and he told them that I started it. So then and there Arnold and Paul decided to fix me at the contest in Melbourne. I had previously challenged Robert to compete. I posted a notice in Barry Hart's Coogee Gym calling Robert a paper tiger! All in fun but mainly to give myself some motivation.
When I was at the contest they had a meeting of competitors and judges. I spoke out and said Roger Walker shouldn't be allowed to compete because he already won the title. No one agreed with me after Arnold dismissed the idea. They ignored the precedent set in the AAU Mr America where you are allowed to win it only once. John Grimek won twice so they made a rule after that to give other guys a chance. A fellow name Ian Perrott came second to Roger that night. In the dressing room after the contest Ian confided to me that he should have spoken up. He figured he would win the next year. I told him he might not because there were lots of good guys around. Would you believe he committed suicide later that year! I wondered if he would have done that had he won the prestigious Mr Australia title. Apparently John Koziura also committed suicide. Very sad. I actually had Ian's daughter write to me about her father but in truth I didn't know him.
Arnold put me last and Paul gave me 25 points out of 100. Frank Burwash wrote that this was biased judging. I had warned him before that Paul was going to put me down and he said he would watch for that. Yeah, sure.
http://forum.iron-age-classic-bodybuilding.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=446975049d0d229d8cdc4a179e3aaf02&topic=10250.0
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Ah, the 1975 Mr Australia contest. Well, where to start. I was a judge in the Mr South Pacific Contest about 1972 or 73. I placed John Koziura ahead of Paul Graham and I think some other judges did the same thing and Paul wasn't pleased because he lost that contest. He also didn't like that I placed Robert Deigan ahead of him in the Mr NSW contest in 1972. So I guess he used the Mr Australia in 1975 to get even with me.
There was a Mr NSW a couple of weeks before the Nationals in 1975 and Robert Nailon won the contest over Hans Meyer. Hans was superior to Robert in my opinion. Arnold and other mates of Robert judged that contest and when the winner was announced booing erupted from the back of the hall. Paul always had a get-together after the contest and provided some food for the contestants. I wasn't pleased with the contest so didn't attend. Andrew Shigelski from my gym went because Arnold was there. We had Arnold at our gym the year before and he came to my place for dinner with Paul afterwards. Anyway, they accused Andrew of booing and he told them that I started it. So then and there Arnold and Paul decided to fix me at the contest in Melbourne. I had previously challenged Robert to compete. I posted a notice in Barry Hart's Coogee Gym calling Robert a paper tiger! All in fun but mainly to give myself some motivation.
When I was at the contest they had a meeting of competitors and judges. I spoke out and said Roger Walker shouldn't be allowed to compete because he already won the title. No one agreed with me after Arnold dismissed the idea. They ignored the precedent set in the AAU Mr America where you are allowed to win it only once. John Grimek won twice so they made a rule after that to give other guys a chance. A fellow name Ian Perrott came second to Roger that night. In the dressing room after the contest Ian confided to me that he should have spoken up. He figured he would win the next year. I told him he might not because there were lots of good guys around. Would you believe he committed suicide later that year! I wondered if he would have done that had he won the prestigious Mr Australia title. Apparently John Koziura also committed suicide. Very sad. I actually had Ian's daughter write to me about her father but in truth I didn't know him.
Arnold put me last and Paul gave me 25 points out of 100. Frank Burwash wrote that this was biased judging. I had warned him before that Paul was going to put me down and he said he would watch for that. Yeah, sure.
http://forum.iron-age-classic-bodybuilding.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=446975049d0d229d8cdc4a179e3aaf02&topic=10250.0
awesome story Vince...Thanks
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Dont you have better things to do at "69" than arguing with guys half or less you age and creating "online logs"? ::)
He has Andropause, he is retired, life sucks & he is bored. I hope I don't make the age of 69 (the position I like)
PT
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I am not hanging out with younger guys. I merely post on a forum where all manner of people post....mostly anonymously. If you have a keyboard you can interact with other minds. That is about it. As you guys get older you will discover that a part of you doesn't age. Yes, where are the other older guys? Not many here. I guess you need a thick hide to remain on Getbig. I can stir with the best of them but I usually refrain from being vulgar.
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He has Andropause, he is retired, life sucks & he is bored. I hope I don't make the age of 69 (the position I like)
PT
you should try it with women....its even better
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you should try it with women....its even better
haha
like you would know twinkles
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you should try it with women....its even better
Stalker reported.
PT
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He has Andropause, he is retired, life sucks & he is bored. I hope I don't make the age of 69 (the position I like)
PT
Is that what it's called? I knew there was a name for this condition. LOL! Speaking for myself (67 here), life doesn't suck though. At least we old folks have an excuse for spending our time on a sometimes dumb Internet forum. What's yours?
When I was a kid like you, I couldn't imagine being in my sixties either. Strange how age sneaks up on you.
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would be interesting to see the pics from this contest.
They had this weird notion of placing the physiques in order from best to worst....go figure.
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So true, the older ones have a better excuse for posting on the internet as they are retired with lots of free time. The young ones are the ones who should be asked "don't you have something better to do".
Just for a young guy to be asking that question of an older guy shows he is probably unemployed and stupid.
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Today my arms measured 17 1/2 inches cold. I am growing rapidly and it is both exciting and a worry. Why a worry? Well, I am getting stronger again and that increases the risk of injury. I have a torn right biceps and both elbows are tender from past injuries. I doubt my arms were 16 inches a month ago. I am training only arms but my whole upper body is filling out. I am training arms every 2nd day now.
I have a thread on Ironage. That forum is moderated unlike this one. I get little respect here and I cop abuse that is completely over the top. I have decided not to post further results here on Getbig. If you want to follow my progress then register at Ironage.
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Today my arms measured 17 1/2 inches cold. I am growing rapidly and it is both exciting and a worry. Why a worry? Well, I am getting stronger again and that increases the risk of injury. I have a torn right biceps and both elbows are tender from past injuries. I doubt my arms were 16 inches a month ago. I am training only arms but my whole upper body is filling out. I am training arms every 2nd day now.
I have a thread on Ironage. That forum is moderated unlike this one. I get little respect here and I cop abuse that is completely over the top. I have decided not to post further results here on Getbig. If you want to follow my progress then register at Ironage.
Post a pic of your progress. Measurements in and of itself is meaningless.
If you want people here to register to IronAge I think you'll lose a lot interest here. I was banned there years ago and not going to open up another email account to fool the mods just so I can post there and see pics. And do you really think those stuffy old farts want us over there?
It started here and it should stay here. We don't sugar coat things like they do on IA. If you s stop posting updates this thread will just die. Most people here are interested in what you are trying to do -- but not that interested because it's just a pipe dream. To match your 1970 condition is just not going to happen.
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Just stop posting here instead of trying to lure people to another forum, you creep.
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QED! Yes, and where are my blue stars?
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you should post it all on getbig
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QED! Yes, and where are my blue stars?
so this is why you type in blue font instead? LOL!!!
"screw you ron. you wont give me my blue stars? I'LL TYPE IN BLUE FONT!!"
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and are the 17.5 inch arms still with 20% bf?
if so, they're really only about a 15.5 inch set of arms in your 1970 condition?
hows that 1970 condition going?
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vince is a complete cu nt
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Today my arms measured 17 1/2 inches cold. I am growing rapidly and it is both exciting and a worry. Why a worry? Well, I am getting stronger again and that increases the risk of injury. I have a torn right biceps and both elbows are tender from past injuries. I doubt my arms were 16 inches a month ago. I am training only arms but my whole upper body is filling out. I am training arms every 2nd day now.
I have a thread on Ironage. That forum is moderated unlike this one. I get little respect here and I cop abuse that is completely over the top. I have decided not to post further results here on Getbig. If you want to follow my progress then register at Ironage.
Pretty funny that you still measure your arms.lol
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If you can't generate DOMS then you are unlikely to grow rapidly. You can still grow like everyone else and eventually get somewhere.
What I looked for was a method to save years from that journey. Biceps are difficult to get sore. I accept and know that. My point is
IF you can get them sore they should grow rapidly if you can keep them sore.
Sorry Vince, but there is no correlation between doms and hypertrophy. I don't know where you got this from but it's incorrect.
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Vince growing
some like a weed!
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Sorry Vince, but there is no correlation between doms and hypertrophy. I don't know where you got this from but it's incorrect.
Could you please elaborate on that theory Coach? I've always been let to believe that if I'm not sore the next day, I've done a half ass workout. If I train hard, I've got DOMS, always. Even after 16 years I've training I still get them as bad as day 1. If I train lighter or without focus, I don't get them. Does one still grow?
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I feel the same, if i don't ache the next day I'm pissed I can't have trained properly or hard enough.
Could you please elaborate on that theory Coach? I've always been let to believe that if I'm not sore the next day, I've done a half ass workout. If I train hard, I've got DOMS, always. Even after 16 years I've training I still get them as bad as day 1. If I train lighter or without focus, I don't get them. Does one still grow?
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that's very true about pain, it comes and goes and is an ok indicator of health but not anywhere near 100%
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DOMS comes almost exclusively from the eccentric part of lifting (when a muscle is lengthening under tension, like the lowering phase of a bench press). If you only ever did the concentric part and had your platonic lifting parter lower the weight for you you'd never get sore.
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so this is why you type in blue font instead? LOL!!!
"screw you ron. you wont give me my blue stars? I'LL TYPE IN BLUE FONT!!"
Actually, IIRC, he posts in blue to separate himself from the other Vince...as in Melvin Venom Vince Goodrum. I think at one time he demanded Vince change his name or something to separate themselves from one another.
Either way, it's just as ludicrous.
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Actually, IIRC, he posts in blue to separate himself from the other Vince...as in Melvin Venom Vince Goodrum. I think at one time he demanded Vince change his name or something to separate themselves from one another.
Either way, it's just as ludicrous.
I thought it was because Ron won't give him blue stars.
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vince has my respect, i didnt know he had a bodybuild
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I thought it was because Ron won't give him blue stars.
Maybe it depends on the day and what story Vince B would like to tell? I don't know, but I do remember the old man telling the version I recited above.
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I have a thread on Ironage. That forum is moderated unlike this one. I get little respect here and I cop abuse that is completely over the top. I have decided not to post further results here on Getbig. If you want to follow my progress then register at Ironage.
GFY Basile......stick your "thread on Ironage".
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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I didn't know we have no moderation here. Which one of you assholes has been deleting my posts >:(
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That's the point. Lots of people have nothing better to do at 69. The better question is: why don't you and I have something better to do..... ;D
8) Very good point !
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8) Very good point !
Sounds like you love the cock.
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Ah, the 1975 Mr Australia contest. Well, where to start. I was a judge in the Mr South Pacific Contest about 1972 or 73. I placed John Koziura ahead of Paul Graham and I think some other judges did the same thing and Paul wasn't pleased because he lost that contest. He also didn't like that I placed Robert Deigan ahead of him in the Mr NSW contest in 1972. So I guess he used the Mr Australia in 1975 to get even with me.
There was a Mr NSW a couple of weeks before the Nationals in 1975 and Robert Nailon won the contest over Hans Meyer. Hans was superior to Robert in my opinion. Arnold and other mates of Robert judged that contest and when the winner was announced booing erupted from the back of the hall. Paul always had a get-together after the contest and provided some food for the contestants. I wasn't pleased with the contest so didn't attend. Andrew Shigelski from my gym went because Arnold was there. We had Arnold at our gym the year before and he came to my place for dinner with Paul afterwards. Anyway, they accused Andrew of booing and he told them that I started it. So then and there Arnold and Paul decided to fix me at the contest in Melbourne. I had previously challenged Robert to compete. I posted a notice in Barry Hart's Coogee Gym calling Robert a paper tiger! All in fun but mainly to give myself some motivation.
When I was at the contest they had a meeting of competitors and judges. I spoke out and said Roger Walker shouldn't be allowed to compete because he already won the title. No one agreed with me after Arnold dismissed the idea. They ignored the precedent set in the AAU Mr America where you are allowed to win it only once. John Grimek won twice so they made a rule after that to give other guys a chance. A fellow name Ian Perrott came second to Roger that night. In the dressing room after the contest Ian confided to me that he should have spoken up. He figured he would win the next year. I told him he might not because there were lots of good guys around. Would you believe he committed suicide later that year! I wondered if he would have done that had he won the prestigious Mr Australia title. Apparently John Koziura also committed suicide. Very sad. I actually had Ian's daughter write to me about her father but in truth I didn't know him.
Arnold put me last and Paul gave me 25 points out of 100. Frank Burwash wrote that this was biased judging. I had warned him before that Paul was going to put me down and he said he would watch for that. Yeah, sure.
http://forum.iron-age-classic-bodybuilding.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=446975049d0d229d8cdc4a179e3aaf02&topic=10250.0
Vince looking very dis-interested in women in this photo shoot.
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Vince I think it`s great that you`re training again.
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hey Vince..I was reading your posts over at IRONAGE...very entertaining and informative...keep up the good work....
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Vince, can you measure your arms right now? How big are they?
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Vince, can you measure your arms right now? How big are they?
Right now Vince measure your arms. How big are they?
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What about now Vince, how big are they?
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Even you Vince must realize how retarded you have become where you are measuring your own arms at close to 70 years old. Come on bro, stick a fork in it already, you're done.
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Even you Vince must realize how retarded you have become where you are measuring your own arms at close to 70 years old. Come on bro, stick a fork in it already, you're done.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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how big is your dumb round head vince?
please respond
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Sounds like you love the cock.
8) I see you are a GENIUS ! :D
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I said I thought I could still build muscle at my age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever. I am into the experiment now and completed my 4th arm workout today. Training only arms at the moment. Biceps and triceps supersets. Ending in 6 sets with the maximum resistance. Progressing rapidly which is almost scary! Mostly regaining some of my former size. I am confident I can get bigger arms than I have previouly had. Should be an interesting experiment. I will show you guys because I need a strong incentive to keep this training going. So far there is no hint of any diminished response to hypertrophy training. This is what I predicted for myself. I can't say it would be the same for everyone else. I won't even consider using any drugs or supplements. This is a purely natural experiment to show what is possible as one gets older.
go for it mate
any updates
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I said I thought I could still build muscle at my age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever. I am into the experiment now and completed my 4th arm workout today. Training only arms at the moment. Biceps and triceps supersets. Ending in 6 sets with the maximum resistance. Progressing rapidly which is almost scary! Mostly regaining some of my former size. I am confident I can get bigger arms than I have previouly had. Should be an interesting experiment. I will show you guys because I need a strong incentive to keep this training going. So far there is no hint of any diminished response to hypertrophy training. This is what I predicted for myself. I can't say it would be the same for everyone else. I won't even consider using any drugs or supplements. This is a purely natural experiment to show what is possible as one gets older.
Bump
You must be a beast by now
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Let us say things are going along just fine and I am on target. Arms are close to 18 cold now which is the biggest they have been. I was using a variation of the lying triceps extensions on the Nautilus machine but it isn't as effective as the unit I made. I was hoping it would be equivalent but it is not. I am training in my gym now. I have proven to myself that hypertrophy at 69 is easy. No drugs, no supplements, no pills and no injections. Just training arms for 7 weeks. Added lats two days ago. Legs are next.
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I do not believe your arms are close to 18'' cold. More like a flabby 16'' pumped. How about some pics or why should we believe you? How big is your waist, 44''?
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This is a small flabby arm typical of an old man who has not trained in years. What's next are you going to grow more hair than you had 40 years ago?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=430407;image)
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Haterz gonna hate Vince. Keep pumping iron at 70! :)
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Here is an update for those supporting this goal. Yes, I have a bit of safety fat but my arms have grown. The last shot was taken after an arm workout. Today's photo was taken cold. I am smooth but my arms are hard and big. I am very pleased with my progress. No drugs or any bullshit supplements. 100% natural.
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You look older and your arm is smooth soft and flabby. No more than 16'' Try to get in touch with reality.
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John Terilli came to my gym years ago to get some help with his posing. I had to help him get his arm in the right position in one pose and remember how soft his biceps were. That surprised me. My arms might look soft but they are hard as steel. Come to my gym and see for yourself. I am not some internet wannabe but a former champion and a gym owner for 40 years.
When I started training my arms about 2 months ago I was using 5 plates on the Nautilus triceps machine. Today I can use 8 1/2 plates. That is good progress.
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John Terilli came to my gym years ago to get some help with his posing. I had to help him get his arm in the right position in one pose and remember how soft his biceps were. That surprised me. My arms might look soft but they are hard as steel. Come to my gym and see for yourself. I am not some internet wannabe but a former champion and a gym owner for 40 years.
When I started training my arms about 2 months ago I was using 5 plates on the Nautilus triceps machine. Today I can use 8 1/2 plates. That is good progress.
ok, something doesn't sound right there
:D :D
joking
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John Terilli came to my gym years ago to get some help with his posing. I had to help him get his arm in the right position in one pose and remember how soft his biceps were. That surprised me. My arms might look soft but they are hard as steel. Come to my gym and see for yourself. I am not some internet wannabe but a former champion and a gym owner for 40 years.
When I started training my arms about 2 months ago I was using 5 plates on the Nautilus triceps machine. Today I can use 8 1/2 plates. That is good progress.
Machines are for the unwashed flotsam, Vince.
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Here is an update for those supporting this goal. Yes, I have a bit of safety fat but my arms have grown. The last shot was taken after an arm workout. Today's photo was taken cold. I am smooth but my arms are hard and big. I am very pleased with my progress. No drugs or any bullshit supplements. 100% natural.
"A bit" of safety fat? Let's be realistic, Vince.
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Pops, your arms are soft but your big head is as hard as a rock. How much does a plate weigh on the triceps machine you are using? Lets see those scrawny arms with a tape measure around them.
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Are you bulking?
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You look older and your arm is smooth soft and flabby. No more than 16'' Try to get in touch with reality.
ouch! ;D
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I am old too but I have forced myself to try to accomplish things other than creating a physique that I cannot. As much as I would like to have an admirable physique, it is not going to happen. So I have chosen other pursuits that are more in my control. Welding, acting, bowling, anything is better than trying to create the impossible. And yes some things are impossible.
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... or to be more positive, just about anything you attempt, other than trying to make a silk purse out of ao sow's ear is easier and more rewarding. Anything is easier than bodybuilding if you don't have the genetics/don't take the drugs. Go for it.
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I have seen pics of Vince at age 27. Even then he looked soft and flabby and not like a person who trained.
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I have seen pics of Vince at age 27. Even then he looked soft and flabby and not like a person who trained.
He was not Tall and Heroic?
:(.
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I have seen pics of Vince at age 27. Even then he looked soft and flabby and not like a person who trained.
shut up.
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shut up.
Piss off Dopey111 the Troll.
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Piss off Dopey111 the Troll.
;D
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You look fantastic at 69! Good work.
I (and every other poster in this thread) can only aspire to look that good at that age.
Good job. ;)
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Here is an update for those supporting this goal. Yes, I have a bit of safety fat but my arms have grown. The last shot was taken after an arm workout. Today's photo was taken cold. I am smooth but my arms are hard and big. I am very pleased with my progress. No drugs or any bullshit supplements. 100% natural.
;D
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I'm usually a positive guy, but it takes a lot of imagination to call this great progress... :-X
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All I can say is thank god none of you are my great great grandchildren
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... or to be more positive, just about anything you attempt, other than trying to make a silk purse out of ao sow's ear is easier and more rewarding. Anything is easier than bodybuilding if you don't have the genetics/don't take the drugs. Go for it.
I first heard that expression from A. Jones.
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Are you still training your arms every 3 days?
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C`mon,Vince is almost 70 years old.....not too shabby for a guy his age when most others can barely walk.
One thing I would do if I was him would be to try to get as lean as possible instead of just adding bulk.......you can`t flex fat.
This is not a knock on you Vince,but at your age,a lean lithe physique regardless of arm measurement would look much better in my opinion..........people on the street don`t carry a measuring tape in case they run into guys that train with weights.
Fuck the scale and the tape......go by the mirror..........it only lies if you are not honest in your self appraisal.
Damn,I was just nice to Vince!! ;D
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looking a bit thicker round the forearms.
Have you anymore pics from your competition days Vince? I saw someone else asked, be interesting to see....
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No worries, Les, cutting up is stage three. Stage one is to get my arms bigger. I am on the way. Then I will do my legs. Finally I will get leaner. Not lean like today's competitors but similar to my 1975 condition.
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Great pic Vince!
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That is a good pic, but it is impossible for you to look like that again at your advanced age, in fact you only looked like that for a brief period nearly 40 years ago. You even admit to using steroids back then. As I said earlier, get in touch with reality.
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I'm usually a positive guy, but it takes a lot of imagination to call this great progress... :-X
wait until your his age. sorry (not really) your clueless.
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No worries, Les, cutting up is stage three. Stage one is to get my arms bigger. I am on the way. Then I will do my legs. Finally I will get leaner. Not lean like today's competitors but similar to my 1975 condition.
You look really good in this picture Vince. And way to go, I think it's great that you are still training at 70 years of age. Keep it up! :)
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I'm usually a positive guy, but it takes a lot of imagination to call this great progress... :-X
Sometimes, progress is holding back the negative. In this case, the effects of advancing years. I'd say Vince is doing just that and a fine job at it too.
Well done, Vince. As is so often the case (being the grumpy guy I am ;) ) we probably disagree on a few things but I congratulate you on your efforts. The rewards of good health strength are to be enjoyed. Again, well done.
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wait until your his age. sorry (not really) your clueless.
You probably look like crap too.
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I was using a variation of the lying
QFT
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vince is still a patronising delusional fat old cu nt
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There are Egyptian Mummies in better shape than Vince. BTW he is working on a product that will restore both all of your hair and it's original color. Another of his products will remove all wrinkles and give you perfect eyesight. He is bombarded with questions about how to be a super stud like him.
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Good job and Great pic Vince!
Incoming Flotsam
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I like it when someone (ayedee) has to start a gimmick account to bag me. What a gutless turd.
The photo I took used flat outdoor lighting. I will take another when I have finished a workout. Then the difference will be obvious.
I forgot how good it feels to be both growing and bigger. That is what bodybuilding is all about. You don't need any gear and you don't need to waste your money on protein, etc. I say these things but the flotsam are too dense to absorb good information. One of my young instructors at my gym is amazed at how hard my muscles are. No one messes with me in person, yet I am not a violent man. Aussies have never accepted foreigners in their country. I am an Australian citizen but I will never be an Aussie. No worries there at all. At least I am fair dinkum and that is more than bigmc will ever be.
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You look really good in this picture Vince. And way to go, I think it's great that you are still training at 70 years of age. Keep it up! :)
is that a viagra joke booty
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=401461.0;attach=440698;image)
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Wish you the best Vince.
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Hey, Vince! Look'en good.
I have family members down your way in New Zealand (Wellington) working on a big movie and they say the weather has been pretty cold and windy but will be changing soon.
When does summer start in your part of the world?
Another is way down south but still in NZ working in the wilderness scenes. Is it possible that the weather would be better further away from Wellington? i would think the further south you went down under, the colder it would get
Many years ago I worked a couple of events with Paul Graham. Is he still alive and kick'en?. If I recall correctly ... his partner in crime passes away a few years back but I forgot his name.
Keep training, Vince. You're looking fit.
Stunt
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Hey Vince,
If you saw Jerry Sandusky doing his thing in the showers, what would you have done?
would you have ripped him OR them a new assshole ???
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQlMjsA9ycGw7DUJrWGwjvPRR0wqPtmZ5f8GURxp-0slf2Q47JQ2sWbu0TkUQ)
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Hi Stuntmovie. In Sydney it can be like summer from September until May. Then again it can get cool as well since there are no mountains to stop cold air from coming up from the southern oceans.
Australia is much warmer than New Zealand. Australia is like California to Mexico. New Zealand is more like Oregon and Washington state.
Paul Graham still runs contests in Australia. He opens and sells gyms from time to time. He also imports gym equipment to sell. So he is doing well.
Here is a photo to warm you up. Avalon is a northern beaches suburb of Sydney.
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I like it when someone (ayedee) has to start a gimmick account to bag me. What a gutless turd.
I forgot how good it feels to be both growing and bigger. That is what bodybuilding is all about. You don't need any gear and you don't need to waste your money on protein, etc. I say these things but the flotsam are too dense to absorb good information. One of my young instructors at my gym is amazed at how hard my muscles are. No one messes with me in person, yet I am not a violent man. Aussies have never accepted foreigners in their country. I am an Australian citizen but I will never be an Aussie. No worries there at all. At least I am fair dinkum and that is more than bigmc will ever be.
Nobody messes with a 70 year old senior citizen....big shocker there Vince. ::)
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No worries, Les, cutting up is stage three. Stage one is to get my arms bigger. I am on the way. Then I will do my legs. Finally I will get leaner. Not lean like today's competitors but similar to my 1975 condition.
vince how old were you there? Looked awesome man
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Either way Vince does look good for a 70 yo and if he leans down he will look even better.
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I don't know man, I won't bash the guy for trying to get in shape but lets face it, his face looks like he's abused alcohol for many many years.
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is that a viagra joke booty
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=401461.0;attach=440698;image)
No....as in keep up the training. I think it's great that Vince still trains and lives an active lifestyle.
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I don't know man, I won't bash the guy for trying to get in shape but lets face it, his face looks like he's abused alcohol for many many years.
Lol, yeah he has that very distinctive bright red alcoholic face for sure.
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Posting photos on Getbig certifies each of us as insane. I get red when I am out in the sun taking photos for hours and hours.
I seldom drink alcohol and I don't use drugs and never have.
I am 69 fellas, there is no rush to be 70!
This is the first time since 1995 that I have trained regularly for more than a month.
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Definite improvement. Can see in the second pic that face is getting leaner and more shape coming to the bicept.
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Keep up the good work Vince!
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Had to install a modification in my gym so trained arms afterwards. Took a few photos when pumped. This should show some improvement.
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definitely look thicker but the angle of the arm is different also.
Vince did you measure your arm at the very start of your experiment?
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No difference in the arm and you are twice as close to the camera. Dream on Mr. Australia 2011.
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I said I thought I could still build muscle at my age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever. I am into the experiment now and completed my 4th arm workout today. Training only arms at the moment. Biceps and triceps supersets. Ending in 6 sets with the maximum resistance. Progressing rapidly which is almost scary! Mostly regaining some of my former size. I am confident I can get bigger arms than I have previouly had. Should be an interesting experiment. I will show you guys because I need a strong incentive to keep this training going. So far there is no hint of any diminished response to hypertrophy training. This is what I predicted for myself. I can't say it would be the same for everyone else. I won't even consider using any drugs or supplements. This is a purely natural experiment to show what is possible as one gets older.
Good for you Vince! Very inspiring stuff.
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definitely look thicker but the angle of the arm is different also.
Vince did you measure your arm at the very start of your experiment?
Bodybuilders don't like to measure themselves if they know they are smaller than they want to be. Sort of like fat people not wanting to know what they weigh on the scale. So I guess my arms were about 16 inches or perhaps a bit smaller! They are approaching 18 cold in the mornings now. You can't really tell from the photos but my arms are approximately an inch larger since my birthday. I have to say that I get a lot of local pain in the elbows so am progressing very slowly. Once I get pumped, most of the pain evaporates. A couple of times I had to wait until the 4th day to retrain. That isn't good to miss days but my joints were a worry so I held off. Another time I was sick for several days. As I get stronger the joints take more of a beating. 12 years ago when I tried training like this I ended up getting injuries. I placed my elbows on pads during the lying extensions and damaged the sheath that covers the elbow joint. Not nice so I had to stop training arms. I was also training calves that month but used ballistic movements and ended up damaging my Achilles tendons. So I gave up that as well. This is the first time I have trained regularly since 1995. I need motivation. So the assorted dickheads bagging me actually help a little!
I even modified my lying triceps extension machine and put the pulley about a foot higher. Feels more effective now. Larry Scott said 5 feet but closer to 6 is better. The path of the cable travels almost in a straight line which is ideal. I am always thinking about improving gym equipment. Now I have to modify the second triceps machine.
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Here is the best machine for triceps that I have used.
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Pops, you are feeling all those aches and pains because your are ancient and haven't trained much for years. Take my advice and forget weights and machines. Take the dog for a walk and after do some very light exercises with some latex rubber tubing. You should also lose some weight. You must be around 30 or 40 lbs overweight.
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Pops, you are feeling all those aches and pains because your are ancient and haven't trained much for years. Take my advice and forget weights and machines. Take the dog for a walk and after do some very light exercises with some latex rubber tubing. You should also lose some weight. You must be around 30 or 40 lbs overweight.
Although this advice you offered was not to me, I am only two years behind Vince, so it caught my attention.
While I don't mind being the age I am, your calling Vince "Pops" seems a bit rude unless you and he are close friends. Guys at the gym where I work out, don't call me Pops, they call me by my name, showing me the same respect they would anyone else.
Your advice is good advice for anyone who is not particularly fit or doesn't have a history which includes weight training. There is nothing wrong with walking the dog per se. However, if a fellow has weight trained most his life, why should he not do it until he dies? Sure, anyone who has taken a holiday from the gym should ease back into it. And perhaps the older one is the more careful they should be about this. But your suggestions come off as if one shouldn't train with weights at all after certain age and that is just wrong. There are fellows at my gym who still lift and they are close to eighty years old. Some of them look a heck of a lot better then some younger guys do.
Vince no doubt knows what his body can and cannot do. Sure, he is pushing himself just like most anyone does. If people stopped training just because they felt a little sore, no one would train more than one time in their life.
As for Vince's weight, he looks a bit chubby in those photos. However, I doubt you have the ability to determine just how much weight he should or shouldn't lose just by looking at a couple of photographs. So your suggestion that he lose 30 to 40 lbs. uncalled for.
I assume you are a younger person. It is somewhat amusing when younger folks act as if they know it all....especially to us older folks. Just remember, with any luck at all, you too will be sixty-nine someday. Perhaps all you'll be able to do is walk the dog and play around with rubber bands. That is entirely up to you.
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The same advice applies to you Prime. BTW 67 is about 30 or 40 years past your prime. I am in my mid sixties.
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The same advice applies to you Prime. BTW 67 is about 30 or 40 years past your prime. I am in my mid sixties.
My doctor's advice differs from yours. When it comes to health, fitness and geriatrics, what are your credentials? Or, are you speaking from personal experience?
Incidentally, I do walk my dogs most days. I am normally very healthy for a man of any age. Although I am currently suffering from some low back pain which is completely unrelated to working out with weights. -Quite the opposite in fact. I missed about four weeks going to the gym because of bronchitis. My back going out is the result of not exercising as opposed to exercising. When I saw my doctor today, he suggested I do some stretching exercises to loosen up my back muscles which are tense because of the back pain.
Perhaps you were in your prime thirty or forty years ago. This is not the case with me. I was sickly as a child and young adult. I hit my prime much later in life. Anyway, part of being in one's prime has to do with their state of mind. I adopted the handle, Primemuscle in the 1980's when I first started playing around with bulletin boards on the computer. I like it, it has a positive ring to it and so I will keep it until I die. Maybe it seems like an oxymoron to you, but I am not you.
Some folks develop arthritis as they age. Did you know that resistance training helps alleviate some of the problems caused by arthritis?
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Describe your current workout, and how long have you been training? Basile is living in the past. 40 years ago he was in good shape, but after that only trained spasmodically. Now at 70 he states that he will regain his shape of 40 years ago, be just as lean and have bigger muscles. Talk about being delusional. He is only seeking attention that's all. I am sorry you were sicky as a child and young man and have been unwell recently.
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Looks like we have another Old Guy on this forum.
You know, have a look at most of the former champions. Who still has good size? Zane? Nope. Scott? Nope. Arnold? Nope. Sergio? Nope. Draper? Nope. Viator? Yes. Robinson? Yes. Nubret? He is gone but he was an exception. Goodness knows who is natural and who is not these days. My quest was to see what I could do by the time I reach my 70th birthday. Many of the wannabe experts here suggest it is not possible to build much muscle at my age. They figure you cannot go back in time. Well, my experience tells me that I can still grow. The hypertrophy response is better than in my youth because I know how to stimulate the muscles to grow now. In the old days it was hit and miss. We grew imperceptibly so didn't have a clue about what worked and what didn't. So we tried all the methods that were popular in the muscle magazines. There was no internet to communicate with other bodybuilders. There was no drug information and that subject was taboo because the medical profession was warned us of the dangerous side effects of steroids. It turns out that the warnings were over the top. However, who would have predicted the extent of drugs in bodybuilding? Injections of oil and all manner of crap. So my mission is to prove that you don't need those drugs. You don't need to waste money on supplements.
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You have offered no proof that you have gained even as much as one ounce of muscle with your so called experiment. You have not stated height, weight, or body fat percentage. All you have said is that your arms are bigger and are very hard. They are not bigger and you look soft and flabby. If you knew something that others did not, you would perhaps look good for your age. Your pics suggest otherwise. Are you also going to regain and then surpass your strength levels of 40 years ago? Surely regaining strength is better than trying to increase your arm size. Being a gym owner and spending so much time there you have little excuse for your present sorry looking condition.
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wut are da measurements of before and after as i don't see much difference in da last two?
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You have offered no proof that you have gained even as much as one ounce of muscle with your so called experiment. You have not stated height, weight, or body fat percentage. All you have said is that your arms are bigger and are very hard. They are not bigger and you look soft and flabby. If you knew something that others did not, you would perhaps look good for your age. Your pics suggest otherwise. Are you also going to regain and then surpass your strength levels of 40 years ago? Surely regaining strength is better than trying to increase your arm size. Being a gym owner and spending so much time there you have little excuse for your present sorry looking condition.
Hi Old Guy. What a sorry individual you are to create an account so you can continue bagging me here instead of at Ironage. Who the heck are you and what have you done in bodybuilding?
I am looking good for my age and the grannies are impressed!
Here is another photo. Look upon my works, ye mortals, and despair!
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no measurments = bullshit experiment
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no measurments = bullshit experiment
Here come the anonymous flotsam trying to annoy me. It takes real courage to conduct a Getbig experiment. Not many even try. So I am having a go and am
impressing the people I know and the members at my gym. That makes it all worthwhile. Losing fat won't be so easy! But that is stage 3 and won't happen until
sometime next year. I have gained over two inches on my arms already so the experiment is a success.
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Looks like we have another Old Guy on this forum.
You know, have a look at most of the former champions. Who still has good size? Zane? Nope. Scott? Nope. Arnold? Nope. Sergio? Nope. Draper? Nope. Viator? Yes. Robinson? Yes. Nubret? He is gone but he was an exception. Goodness knows who is natural and who is not these days. My quest was to see what I could do by the time I reach my 70th birthday. Many of the wannabe experts here suggest it is not possible to build much muscle at my age. They figure you cannot go back in time. Well, my experience tells me that I can still grow. The hypertrophy response is better than in my youth because I know how to stimulate the muscles to grow now. In the old days it was hit and miss. We grew imperceptibly so didn't have a clue about what worked and what didn't. So we tried all the methods that were popular in the muscle magazines. There was no internet to communicate with other bodybuilders. There was no drug information and that subject was taboo because the medical profession was warned us of the dangerous side effects of steroids. It turns out that the warnings were over the top. However, who would have predicted the extent of drugs in bodybuilding? Injections of oil and all manner of crap. So my mission is to prove that you don't need those drugs. You don't need to waste money on supplements.
To what time period do you refer when you mention that steroids were taboo? When I was sixteen, our family doctor put me on D-bol 5 mg a day and test shots once a week. I did this for about three months if I remember correctly. My weight went from 126 to 145 lbs. At eighteen I did a couple more "cycles" prescribed by the same doctor. At the conclusion of this time I reached a weight of 185 lbs at eighteen years of age. Albeit there was a lot of bloat. Steroids were legal at that time if prescribed by a doctor. Much in the way that testosterone is legal today if prescribed by a doctor. Needless to say, 5 mg a day is peanuts compared to what some bodybuilder often take.
Genetically speaking, you may not need drugs to get bigger, but I did. My mom never weighed more than about 125 lbs at 5'8" and my dad was 6'5" and weighed 175 lbs. I am from very skinny stock. Even today, if I don't work out, I lose weight. Just to opposite of most people.
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Here come the anonymous flotsam trying to annoy me. It takes real courage to conduct a Getbig experiment. Not many even try. So I am having a go and am
impressing the people I know and the members at my gym. That makes it all worthwhile. Losing fat won't be so easy! But that is stage 3 and won't happen until
sometime next year. I have gained over two inches on my arms already so the experiment is a success.
How much of this success do you attribute to so called "muscle memory"? Judging from the size of your forearms, you are naturally a big guy. My guess is that you were a fairly big muscular dude in your day. My forearms, even though I work them hard are toothpicks compared to yours. Also, my elbow joint is a lot bonier than yours is.
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Know what?
Who am I to actually discredit you man. It is a good thing at your age you are training and try to improve in any aspect of your life etc.
Good luck.
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How much of this success do you attribute to so called "muscle memory"? Judging from the size of your forearms, you are naturally a big guy. My guess is that you were a fairly big muscular dude in your day. My forearms, even though I work them hard are toothpicks compared to yours. Also, my elbow joint is a lot bonier than yours is.
We all use terms we really know bugger all about. That is the trouble with bodybuilding and why there are so few true experts. Most are incapable of reading and comprehending the scientific literature. So that leaves experience. Not really good enough but that is what most of us have. I started training in 1958 so it is over 50 years lifting weights, etc.
Some guys lose a lot of muscle when they stop training. I seem to keep a fair amount. My calves are almost as big as my arms and I seldom train them. Walking with heavy backpack is all I do. Well, I carry three cameras around with me hiking up and down and around and about. When I look at my family I can't claim I was a genetic natural. I didn't win the Mr Canada until 1970 so that is a long time training hard and trying a lot of different things. My strength increased well before my size did. It took me 6 months to bench press 200 pounds. When I look back no wonder I didn't grow much. Not enough food. I was training in a basement of a neighbour. With my gym equipment now I can make much better gains. Plus, I have a reasonably precise method to stimulate growth. The lads here don't believe me because they already are convinced they need drugs. What a shame that bodybuilding has become a chemistry lab.
You look pretty good in your photos, Jay.
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Dewlap appears to be filling in nicely.
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My current workout routine is basically one muscle group per day with one complete cycle taking six days. For example: I work arms, biceps, triceps and forearms on Monday, Tuesday I work hams and calves, Wednesday I work back, Thursday shoulders, traps and abs, Friday chest and Saturday quads and calves. I limit my routine to what I can accomplish in about 45 minutes and never more than an hour. If I do cardio, that time is added time. Therefore longest workout would last 1 1/2 hours. I do a warm-up set and two to four work sets for each exercise. Usually, I do about three or four exercises for each muscle worked. Rest time between sets is never less then a minute and up to three minutes for larger muscles like quads. Every six to eight weeks I take a week off and just swim laps or do something different that requires some exercise. This routine allows a maximum recovery time which is more important the older one is. My body responds well to this.
I am fairly lean normally. I eat a normal healthy diet with an eye to protein intake. I am not a big junk food person, so that isn't an issue for me. My height is 5'11" and I weigh around 209 presently. I would guess that my body fat is about 12%. My arms and my neck both measure about 17" (no double chin). My waist is 34-35".
When I was a teenager, I was exceptionally skinny. Same approximate height as today, but weighed 126 lbs. This is what got me started weight training. I have trained most all of my adult life with very few breaks. I train to be fit and not to be a competitive bodybuilder or a muscle freak (don't believe I have the genetics for that). The most I ever weighed was 225 lbs. This was when I was twenty-nine. When I am not lifting, I eat less and generally drop some weight. My base weight most of my adult life has been 185-195 lbs. Over the last two years I've added some lean muscle mass arms a result of being on TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). This is due to my being treated by my doctor for low testosterone levels.
When I do take a block of time off from the gym and return to working out, I drop the poundages down, going light the first week back. It is all about how I feel. I am not looking to break any records or prove anything. I can generally gauge how I am doing by how sore I am. A little sore for a couple of days seems about right for me. More than that is a sure sign I am overdoing it. Given my laid back nature, that isn't usually a problem. LOL.
The saying is that a picture is worth a thousand words....here is two thousand words worth. Both are recent. The headless one is about two months old and the other one is maybe a year ago.
You look very very good for your age, props. I definitely will hit TRT and some gh replacement if god allows me to stay here as I get older. But right now I'm only 23 so... ;D
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We all use terms we really know bugger all about. That is the trouble with bodybuilding and why there are so few true experts. Most are incapable of reading and comprehending the scientific literature. So that leaves experience. Not really good enough but that is what most of us have. I started training in 1958 so it is over 50 years lifting weights, etc.
Some guys lose a lot of muscle when they stop training. I seem to keep a fair amount. My calves are almost as big as my arms and I seldom train them. Walking with heavy backpack is all I do. Well, I carry three cameras around with me hiking up and down and around and about. When I look at my family I can't claim I was a genetic natural. I didn't win the Mr Canada until 1970 so that is a long time training hard and trying a lot of different things. My strength increased well before my size did. It took me 6 months to bench press 200 pounds. When I look back no wonder I didn't grow much. Not enough food. I was training in a basement of a neighbour. With my gym equipment now I can make much better gains. Plus, I have a reasonably precise method to stimulate growth. The lads here don't believe me because they already are convinced they need drugs. What a shame that bodybuilding has become a chemistry lab.
You look pretty good in your photos, Jay.
I'll guess that you are referring my use of the term "muscle memory" as one of those which "we really know bugger all about." To me the muscle memory is best defined by the times I have taken away from working out and then got back to it. I have never had to start back a ground zero in terms of weight lifted or type of exercise performed. Also, while I lose some muscle if I don't work out. I have never again become that skinny 126 lb kid....not even close. No matter that I dial back the poundages when I start back, I am up to where I was in a couple of weeks or sooner. And trust me on this, I don't push myself really hard like some folks do.
As for understanding what is written or the supposed experts say about how to bodybuilder, each of us is different. I believe that what works for you, may or may not work for me. So, as best I can tell the real experts are people like you knowing how your body responds and me knowing how my body responds to stimuli. That makes each of us experts on a very limited subject, ourselves. Of course I got to this point probably like you did, from decades of trial and error and a lot of reading and testing out different theories.
Calves and forearms seem like a give-a-way as to how each of us is engineered. To me, these are like genetic markers for how much muscle you naturally would carry. It is rare that one would see an ectomorph with big calves and forearms....aside for the cartoon character Popeye. Likewise, not too many mesomorphs have skinny calves and forearms. Understandably, most of us fall somewhere outside these clear definitions. I have large bones for example. If I were a true ectomorph, I'd probably be a bit narrower with a smaller bone structure. Anyway, to me your large calves and forearms explain why you don't loose much muscle mass when you are not training. For years, I would immediately (at least in my head) start reverting to that skinny kid I once was. In truth, I have a fast metabolism and require a fair amount of fuel to keep me going....well a little less as of late.
Thanks for the compliment. Looking good is like the cherry on a hot fudge Sunday. What really counts is that most of the time I feel really good. I feel healthy and usually I am. Without a doubt this is the real reward from my commitment to exercise all these years. I compare myself to much younger fellows which my wife thinks is nuts. She'll say something like, "He's probably only twenty-two years old, you can't expect to look like him." I can expect anything I want....these are my goals, I'll set them as high as possible. Of course, I am also a realist. I don't really expect to look like a twenty-two year old in every respect. I'll keep my hard earned character lines, bald head and white hair and I wear them like a badge of achievement. LOL!
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It isn't easy trying to convey ideas on the internet. Sure there is something like muscle memory working. It is part of what the scientists call the Repeated Bout Effect. In other words, effects can persist for a long time. However, I doubt any scientists have investigated this phenomenon called muscle memory.
While it is a truism that we all have to find what works for us, that can't be what hypertrophy is all about. Yes, there are differences but the formula for hypertrophy has to be a physical process that is applied to all individuals. We may not all grow the same amount or as rapidly, but hypertrophy is a response common to all individuals unless there is some deficiency. I don't mean invented concepts such as hard gainers. I don't buy that concept. If an hypertrophy expert put these hard gainers through workouts and also supervised their nutrition intake then those who failed to gain could call themselves that. The rest will join the multitudes who get a reasonable result from heavy training.
I wonder why more champions haven't retained their size or close to their size as they age? Oh, how I know about the lack of motivation. However, these guys knew how to get big and succeeded. So they should find it quite easy to regain most of that size even when they are over 60. Many are still huge while over 40 but we haven't seen much size on the older set.
Fat people insist that the body has various set points that keep them fat. The trouble is the set point can change and they find themselves getting fatter and fatter over the decades. Eventually, they stop gaining and reach a stalemate. Homeostasis. Bodybuilders will find a similar thing. Your weight will hover around a certain number and then you gain 10 pounds and it hovers around that mark. I am much heavier than my two brothers who are within a year of my age.
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It isn't easy trying to convey ideas on the internet. Sure there is something like muscle memory working. It is part of what the scientists call the Repeated Bout Effect. In other words, effects can persist for a long time. However, I doubt any scientists have investigated this phenomenon called muscle memory.
While it is a truism that we all have to find what works for us, that can't be what hypertrophy is all about. Yes, there are differences but the formula for hypertrophy has to be a physical process that is applied to all individuals. We may not all grow the same amount or as rapidly, but hypertrophy is a response common to all individuals unless there is some deficiency. I don't mean invented concepts such as hard gainers. I don't buy that concept. If an hypertrophy expert put these hard gainers through workouts and also supervised their nutrition intake then those who failed to gain could call themselves that. The rest will join the multitudes who get a reasonable result from heavy training.
I wonder why more champions haven't retained their size or close to their size as they age? Oh, how I know about the lack of motivation. However, these guys knew how to get big and succeeded. So they should find it quite easy to regain most of that size even when they are over 60. Many are still huge while over 40 but we haven't seen much size on the older set.
Fat people insist that the body has various set points that keep them fat. The trouble is the set point can change and they find themselves getting fatter and fatter over the decades. Eventually, they stop gaining and reach a stalemate. Homeostasis. Bodybuilders will find a similar thing. Your weight will hover around a certain number and then you gain 10 pounds and it hovers around that mark. I am much heavier than my two brothers who are within a year of my age.
I agree that conversations in Internet forums aren’t the ideal way to convey what we believe or mean to say. I have been misinterpreted and/or misread many times. Despite this we are communicating essentially the same ideas here about muscle memory. So I am going to say we are in some agreement.
Sure, there are some basic weight lifting principals as to what is effective in causing hypertrophy in most individuals. For example, one needs to put enough stress on the muscle to cause it to react. Weight resistance is one form of stress and repetitive movement is another. When one finds the right combination of these elements the effect is like magic and the muscle grows. In the routine I am presently doing, I am using a fair amount of resistance and a limited number of reps on work sets. This seems to be working pretty well for most exercises. My arms were barely 16” a year ago and now they are a solid 17”. Like you, I’d like to see them grow to 18” at least. However, I always have symmetry in mind. In order for my arms to look good at that size, my deltoids will need to grow too. Unfortunately for me, I am susceptible to shoulder injuries which have thus far limited my ability to increase the weight on deltoid exercises as much as I would like to. Seeing my photos, you will notice I am not blessed with wide shoulders or large delts.
Speaking of symmetry, I find it unfortunate that symmetry in bodybuilding seems to have been lost to mere size these days. Contemporary bodybuilders often look more like comic book superheroes than like well built human beings. Even at the gym where I work out, you see fellows of all ages who clearly are abusing steroids to achieve a super muscular but not necessarily symmetrical look. I say abusing steroids because from personal experience, I believe sensible steroid use can overcome some deficiencies in some people which working out alone cannot. However, the unrealistic superhero look combined with a mindset that demands immediate results often leads to steroid and supplement abuse. I will never have huge calves or Popeye forearms, but they shall remain oil free, although there are moments when those ideas pass fleetingly by me. Bodybuilding can be a narcissistic endeavor.¬
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Had to install a modification in my gym so trained arms afterwards. Took a few photos when pumped. This should show some improvement.
Wow, you have build yourself a watch!! And it seem to me that you have more hair in your armpit, but otherwise I don't see any difference. And there was again a picture about your invention, which I find kind of interesting, because I can't understand why it must be done so difficult way? There is plenty of machines where you sit and do just same ROM with your hands, so why do you think that face down position is so much better? It can't be about the position of the body, because only what matter is your forearm movement in relation to the upper arm. I bet you can manage to get just same results with this kind of machine, it is easy to build and much cheaper.http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/CBInclineTriExt.html (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/CBInclineTriExt.html)
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Posting photos on Getbig certifies each of us as insane. I get red when I am out in the sun taking photos for hours and hours.
This is the first time since 1995 that I have trained regularly for more than a month.
yet you still felt you could give advice to milos sarcev
you are an idiot old or not
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Here come the anonymous flotsam trying to annoy me. It takes real courage to conduct a Getbig experiment. Not many even try. So I am having a go and am
impressing the people I know and the members at my gym. That makes it all worthwhile. Losing fat won't be so easy! But that is stage 3 and won't happen until
sometime next year. I have gained over two inches on my arms already so the experiment is a success.
Basile, I have the utmost respect for your past achievements but... sorry, but it is impossible to see any improvement in the pictures you have provided. It would be much better if you documented your experiment by on a weekly basis:
1. Reporting weight
2. Reporting bodyfat, for instance by a 3-point caliper measurement based estimate
3. Reporting diameters of arms, calves, thighs, chest and waist.
Your pics are not impressive so far. You look very overweight and it is not possible to se any definition in your arms. I see fat guys like you in the gym every day there, and many of them are very weak although they are bulky.
NN
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I had a look at the seated cable triceps extension machine. Similar but not the same. There are two problems with the seated variation. First, the pulley is not in the right position and therefore the cable doesn't move in a straight line. This means there will be less resistance in the finish position and that is where you need more, not less. Second, when heavy loads are used it will be awkward to start the movement. With my machine you keep the handle in front of you at arms length and use your bodyweight to get into position. Also, it is important to have the upper arms stationary so they can't rotate. Lastly, you need side pads to stop the elbows from moving outward.
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yet you still felt you could give advice to milos sarcev
you are an idiot old or not
Watch who you call an idiot. I have a good memory. Milos said he tried everything for his arms. Well, he didn't try my equipment or protocols because they are available no where else.
Show more respect or your posts will be ignored.
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Hi Old Guy. What a sorry individual you are to create an account so you can continue bagging me here instead of at Ironage. Who the heck are you and what have you done in bodybuilding?
I am looking good for my age and the grannies are impressed!
Here is another photo. Look upon my works, ye mortals, and despair!
LOLOL
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Watch who you call an idiot. I have a good memory. Milos said he tried everything for his arms. Well, he didn't try my equipment or protocols because they are available no where else.
Show more respect or your posts will be ignored.
ignore them if you want you tubby cu nt
keep up the delusional long winded drivel
your opinion is like your theories
full of shit
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Vince is getting a good beating in Iron age forum from the Dick Admin and that slag Panting.
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Are you still training arms every 3 days, Vince?
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actually "Old Guy" is a good Guy Vince because he is one of the few people who don't lick the admins assholes in IA. Although not a member there i was following a couple of threads and they really are a bunch of mobbing Bastards.
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Are you still training arms every 3 days, Vince?
Yes, arms every 3rd day. I tried a few times on the 2nd day but my joints need more rest. I added lat pulldowns for the last two workouts.
So far 18 inches is a barrier. Will have to find a way to overcome it. I might start using my biceps supinator. The trouble is the machine isn't beside the triceps unit so I might
lose the use of one if away from it for a time.
No worries because I can train after the gym closes.
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It's like a Chapel of Rest in here.
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Yes, arms every 3rd day. I tried a few times on the 2nd day but my joints need more rest. I added lat pulldowns for the last two workouts.
So far 18 inches is a barrier. Will have to find a way to overcome it. I might start using my biceps supinator. The trouble is the machine isn't beside the triceps unit so I might
lose the use of one if away from it for a time.
No worries because I can train after the gym closes.
I'm curious Vince, what do you think about Mentzer's idea/theory that as a muscle grows bigger and stronger that it needs to be trained less (ie. less frequently and with less volume) in order to keep growing bigger and stronger?
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Vince is getting a good beating in Iron age forum from the Dick Admin and that slag Panting.
Weren't you Gordon on ironage? Now the mods are saying u were all sorts of different posters right up till a couple of days ago ???
nasty accusations i would say. check it out
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I personally think that Mike and Arthur were totally wrong about training less frequently. There is the Repeated Bout Effect which means if you recover from a severe bout of exercise the training effect will last for a long time. This means that similar training won't build any additional muscle. So you want to retrain while your muscle is still sore. This goes against everything we were told about training. Unfortunately, it is also false and it has stopped zillions of guys from growing more rapidly. According to Hypertrophy Specific Training site they recommend retraining ideally every 36 hours. But they reduce the volume. That is when protein synthesis apparently ends in muscles. I am not so sure about this but HST suggests a practical frequency is every 2nd day. If you are young you might be able to do it. If you are much older and your joints are sore then perhaps every third day is wiser. That is what I am doing at the moment and it works. The additional consideration is to generate soreness in the muscle. Then retrain before the soreness goes away. For some muscles this is not so easy. Eg., the biceps. However, if you can get them sore they should grow rapidly. Naturally, it is a requirement that sufficient nutrients are ingested to support the growth. No extra protein is required other than what you would eat in your meals. No supplements and all that rubbish.
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Ironage does a reasonably good job moderating their forum. That is all I am going to say about them here. Old Guy was knocking me there. Then he comes here to continue bagging me.
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Weren't you Gordon on ironage? Now the mods are saying u were all sorts of different posters right up till a couple of days ago ???
nasty accusations i would say. check it out
I do not know how anyone can bring me in a connection with a "Gordon". I want to put this to rest once and for all. I got banned yes..because i did not like that Perine was selling a product in IA for his financial gains...so the dick banned me. IA is run by old farts who to choose who should be in their "clique"
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Ironage does a reasonably good job moderating their forum. That is all I am going to say about them here. Old Guy was a dork for sure. Then he comes here to continue bagging me.
Don´t think he´s the dork...like i said i always found him ok.
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Ironage does a reasonably good job moderating their forum. That is all I am going to say about them here. Old Guy was knocking me there. Then he comes here to continue bagging me.
funny that in IA you are getting a hard time from Bob scalise
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I had a look at the seated cable triceps extension machine. Similar but not the same. There are two problems with the seated variation. First, the pulley is not in the right position and therefore the cable doesn't move in a straight line. This means there will be less resistance in the finish position and that is where you need more, not less. Second, when heavy loads are used it will be awkward to start the movement. With my machine you keep the handle in front of you at arms length and use your bodyweight to get into position. Also, it is important to have the upper arms stationary so they can't rotate. Lastly, you need side pads to stop the elbows from moving outward.
Side pads would be helpful, that's true, but what comes those other claims, we obviously need a video clip of range of motion in your machine. You don't have show more than the guy doing the exercise, so no one can copy your invention. What is so hard to me to understand, is how come those little details mean so much, because they really do not. Those little details can put extra 2% benefit in this exercise, but other 98% will be just same in both machines. That 2% you can compensate by doing 1 extra rep. This isn't rocket science, only thing we do is build muscles and muscle building equipment, so simple is better than complicated. What comes to triceps, I haven't face any problems to add size and strenght to them, so it has been easy task for me and that's why it is so hard to understand your idea. My biggest problem while I was younger, was how to stay on the ground while doing cable push downs, and that was easy to fix. They add hook on the floor and I use weight belt and chain to keep me down ;D
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ignore them if you want you tubby cu nt
keep up the delusional long winded drivel
your opinion is like your theories
full of shit
Dude...get a grip on yourself...show some respect...this guy might be a little past his prime but he achieved a lot when he was younger and deserves respect for that alone...the fact that he is trying to regain his strength and muscle mass is a tribute to his competitive spirit....he refuses to give up on himself and is trying to show that you can turn back the clock somewhat instead of crying about how feeble you are when you get to be his age....
what have YOU done in your life bodybuilding-wise??????????????????????????????????????????????????
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Looking good Vince.
Comprehensive articles and articulate speech are what this forum should be about. Motivation, positive attitudes, honesty, integrity and last but not least: The truth.
Your arms look bigger than 16" BTW. Good Job. Great reading.
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Those arms dieted down into real contest shape are about 14 to 15 inches :-\
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you look familiar
My current workout routine is basically one muscle group per day with one complete cycle taking six days. For example: I work arms, biceps, triceps and forearms on Monday, Tuesday I work hams and calves, Wednesday I work back, Thursday shoulders, traps and abs, Friday chest and Saturday quads and calves. I limit my routine to what I can accomplish in about 45 minutes and never more than an hour. If I do cardio, that time is added time. Therefore longest workout would last 1 1/2 hours. I do a warm-up set and two to four work sets for each exercise. Usually, I do about three or four exercises for each muscle worked. Rest time between sets is never less then a minute and up to three minutes for larger muscles like quads. Every six to eight weeks I take a week off and just swim laps or do something different that requires some exercise. This routine allows a maximum recovery time which is more important the older one is. My body responds well to this.
I am fairly lean normally. I eat a normal healthy diet with an eye to protein intake. I am not a big junk food person, so that isn't an issue for me. My height is 5'11" and I weigh around 209 presently. I would guess that my body fat is about 12%. My arms and my neck both measure about 17" (no double chin). My waist is 34-35".
When I was a teenager, I was exceptionally skinny. Same approximate height as today, but weighed 126 lbs. This is what got me started weight training. I have trained most all of my adult life with very few breaks. I train to be fit and not to be a competitive bodybuilder or a muscle freak (don't believe I have the genetics for that). The most I ever weighed was 225 lbs. This was when I was twenty-nine. When I am not lifting, I eat less and generally drop some weight. My base weight most of my adult life has been 185-195 lbs. Over the last two years I've added some lean muscle mass arms a result of being on TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). This is due to my being treated by my doctor for low testosterone levels.
When I do take a block of time off from the gym and return to working out, I drop the poundages down, going light the first week back. It is all about how I feel. I am not looking to break any records or prove anything. I can generally gauge how I am doing by how sore I am. A little sore for a couple of days seems about right for me. More than that is a sure sign I am overdoing it. Given my laid back nature, that isn't usually a problem. LOL.
The saying is that a picture is worth a thousand words....here is two thousand words worth. Both are recent. The headless one is about two months old and the other one is maybe a year ago.
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Ropo makes a lot of statements about the effectiveness or otherwise of various machines. Listen, I am a designer of gym equipment. If you think it is easy then have a go at designing something original and new. Talk about 2% difference is pure speculation.....in polite terms you don't know what you are talking about.
Things might look similar but could be substantially different if compared properly. You don't want to mess around with dangerous exercises for the triceps because it is too easy to damage the connective tissue and you can end up with sore elbows that is more or less permanent. I can tell you variations of tennis elbow is no joke. If you do standing French presses with a barbell you can get sore elbows. Experience will tell you which exercises to avoid and which are okay. Sometimes okay exercises get to be dangerous if heavy weights are used. Little things like arm pads and side pads can make all the difference in the world. Why? Well, believe it or not almost all people cheat doing exercises in the gym. There are two things fuelling the lack of good form in exercises. One is the ego which sees just about everyone trying to use big weights so they look strong. The other is the belief that using heavier weights will result in larger muscles. This is only partly true. The requirement is that the target muscle is actually lifting the resistance.
Two days ago in my gym I found 2 young guys doing the lying triceps extensions. The shorter bloke was using 10 X 5kg plates. He wasn't a huge guy so I told him there was no way he could use that amount of weight. So he proceeded to show me that he could. Fair dinkum, the guy was doing 1/3 range reps and his elbows were sliding sideways. Also, his shoulders were rising up. His body wasn't in a strong position, either. So I got him to reduce the load to 6 plates and have another go. He was struggling to do the reps. Eventually, after several adjustments on the machine, he was successfully doing 5 plates! He could feel the difference and now appreciates how to use the machine and get some results. His mate was taller and he ended up using 4 plates instead of 7. I told both that if they could genuinely lift 10 plates for 10 reps they would have much bigger arms.....18" cold.
I solved the problem of the body rising during triceps pressdowns by installing a bar that allows the user to put his foot under and that keeps him from rising. Made that in the early 1980s. Previously we used a heavy dumbbell to do the same thing.
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Got to agree, triceps are a tough one. For a while I was doing seated triceps extension variations frequently, they hit my tri's well and the aching next day was intense so they had zoned in on the required muscle.
But I gained alot of pain in my elbows too. I was constantly aware of a dull ache all the time and they were so sensitive if I knocked them the pain was unbelievable.
I've laid off those kind of movements for months now and I'm pain free, never going back.
I also started to get pointier elbows, Chris Dickerson syndrome.
Ropo makes a lot of statements about the effectiveness or otherwise of various machines. Listen, I am a designer of gym equipment. If you think it is easy then have a go at designing something original and new. Talk about 2% difference is pure speculation.....in polite terms you don't know what you are talking about.
Things might look similar but could be substantially different if compared properly. You don't want to mess around with dangerous exercises for the triceps because it is too easy to damage the connective tissue and you can end up with sore elbows that is more or less permanent. I can tell you variations of tennis elbow is no joke. If you do standing French presses with a barbell you can get sore elbows. Experience will tell you which exercises to avoid and which are okay. Sometimes okay exercises get to be dangerous if heavy weights are used. Little things like arm pads and side pads can make all the difference in the world. Why? Well, believe it or not almost all people cheat doing exercises in the gym. There are two things fuelling the lack of good form in exercises. One is the ego which sees just about everyone trying to use big weights so they look strong. The other is the belief that using heavier weights will result in larger muscles. This is only partly true. The requirement is that the target muscle is actually lifting the resistance.
Two days ago in my gym I found 2 young guys doing the lying triceps extensions. The shorter bloke was using 10 X 5kg plates. He wasn't a huge guy so I told him there was no way he could use that amount of weight. So he proceeded to show me that he could. Fair dinkum, the guy was doing 1/3 range reps and his elbows were sliding sideways. Also, his shoulders were rising up. His body wasn't in a strong position, either. So I got him to reduce the load to 6 plates and have another go. He was struggling to do the reps. Eventually, after several adjustments on the machine, he was successfully doing 5 plates! He could feel the difference and now appreciates how to use the machine and get some results. His mate was taller and he ended up using 4 plates instead of 7. I told both that if they could genuinely lift 10 plates for 10 reps they would have much bigger arms.....18" cold.
I solved the problem of the body rising during triceps pressdowns by installing a bar that allows the user to put his foot under and that keeps him from rising. Made that in the early 1980s. Previously we used a heavy dumbbell to do the same thing.
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Triceps pressdowns are safe for the elbows. Warm up with high reps on light weights for a few sets to pump the arms up. When pumped you can then train the triceps heavier. Most barbell work lying supine on a bench are dangerous exercises. So called skull crunchers will destroy the elbows. If you have previous tender elbows from throwing javelin or footballs or baseballs you will aggravate the tenderness when you train triceps. If you do the lying triceps exercise as shown in this thread you will be okay. That seems weird because it is also an isolation exercise. Lots of high rep light sets are required here. Make sure you don't rub the elbow on the pads. Avoid contact when doing biceps curls on benches, too, because the sheath will be damaged. Most biceps machines are badly designed because the pads are under the elbow joint. No one puts pads under the knees on the leg curl machines so should avoid doing a similar thing with the elbows on triceps and biceps machines. If more designers were experienced bodybuilders we wouldn't have these problems.
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I told both that if they could genuinely lift 10 plates for 10 reps they would have much bigger arms.....
Exactly, and that right there is why your arms have gotten bigger, because you are now training with greater training loads, not because of DOMS.
Also, did your torso get bigger from only training arms, like you claimed that it would?
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The DOMS part is a requirement of continuous, rapid growth. This is now established as a fact with me. The rapid growth has made me stronger.
Progressive resistance has always been part of the hypertrophy process. What I am doing goes against what is believed about recovery and growth.
My whole upper body has grown as well. Back feels wide and my chest is firming up. Most don't believe this but how many have tried training only arms for
two months? I doubt bodybuilders would even dare attempt such a protocol for fear they would lose precious size elsewhere on their torsos.
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The DOMS part is a requirement of continuous, rapid growth. This is now established as a fact with me. The rapid growth has made me stronger.
Progressive resistance has always been part of the hypertrophy process. What I am doing goes against what is believed about recovery and growth.
My whole upper body has grown as well. Back feels wide and my chest is firming up. Most don't believe this but how many have tried training only arms for
two months? I doubt bodybuilders would even dare attempt such a protocol for fear they would lose precious size elsewhere on their torsos.
Not even close.
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Triceps pushdowns were good for me when I could get to a gym, train at home these days
Triceps pressdowns are safe for the elbows. Warm up with high reps on light weights for a few sets to pump the arms up. When pumped you can then train the triceps heavier. Most barbell work lying supine on a bench are dangerous exercises. So called skull crunchers will destroy the elbows. If you have previous tender elbows from throwing javelin or footballs or baseballs you will aggravate the tenderness when you train triceps. If you do the lying triceps exercise as shown in this thread you will be okay. That seems weird because it is also an isolation exercise. Lots of high rep light sets are required here. Make sure you don't rub the elbow on the pads. Avoid contact when doing biceps curls on benches, too, because the sheath will be damaged. Most biceps machines are badly designed because the pads are under the elbow joint. No one puts pads under the knees on the leg curl machines so should avoid doing a similar thing with the elbows on triceps and biceps machines. If more designers were experienced bodybuilders we wouldn't have these problems.
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surely the difference here is that you haven't trained properly for many years so you have totally shocked your body, growth is expected.
Whereas a bodybuilder regularly training would surely lose size in other areas but perhaps stay toned in some bodyparts.The DOMS part is a requirement of continuous, rapid growth. This is now established as a fact with me. The rapid growth has made me stronger.
Progressive resistance has always been part of the hypertrophy process. What I am doing goes against what is believed about recovery and growth.
My whole upper body has grown as well. Back feels wide and my chest is firming up. Most don't believe this but how many have tried training only arms for
two months? I doubt bodybuilders would even dare attempt such a protocol for fear they would lose precious size elsewhere on their torsos.
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Many swear by triceps pressdowns but they are not that good compared to the lying extensions. My own experience led me to the DOMS theory. I was having a go at getting my arms big again back in 1998. So I was using pressdowns and was applying mechanical tension until the muscle was shaking. When my arms reached a bit over 17 inches the growth stopped. What the heck was this? So I had to do something different. Imagine my surprise when I got very sore from doing the lying extensions. How was that possible when I was training triceps severely and brutally? So a light went on in my brain. I wondered what would happen if I could keep my triceps sore. The result was rapid growth. This went against Hans Selye's theory of Stress. I shouldn't be getting stronger but I was.
I concluded that triceps pressdowns were not an effective triceps exercise. The lying extensions put the triceps in a stretched position and that helps them grow when trained hard. The pads contain the arms and therefore the user can exert maximum force using the triceps alone. Well, that is what should happen. Guys still manage to cheat and I see their shoulders rising and the arms moving apart. If your brain can't keep your body doing the right thing re putting severe mechanical tension on the triceps then they are simply not going to grow.
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you look familiar
You are kidding, right? Sure we are probably close in age, both of us are either bald or shave our heads, we are both tanned, then there are the white beards and goatees. Aside from these similarities, our musculature is different, i.e. our pecs have different insertion points. However, I am flattered that you see a similarity because I see me as being somewhat less in shape then my "doppelganger".
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surely the difference here is that you haven't trained properly for many years so you have totally shocked your body, growth is expected.
Whereas a bodybuilder regularly training would surely lose size in other areas but perhaps stay toned in some bodyparts.
Hench, are you capable of learning something new? You seem to want to fit everything into your belief system. I have a theory about anti-aging that requires that I try to stimulate growth when I train and I have been doing this for over a decade now. What I haven't been doing is consistently training. What I am doing now resembles training but I am actually triggering hypertrophy each workout.
When you are doing what is required to rapidly grow your other muscles surrounding the arms will also grow because they are being used to hold you steady, etc. I train to the limit on every set. My belief is that you have to give the arms a reason to grow. You can't do just anything and expect rapid hypertrophy.
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So you do one exercise for triceps and on exercise for biceps, right?
What are your strength increases or both exercises?
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Now I understand why Vince Basile is the laughing stock of GB.
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Always capable of learning something new Vince. I can see why you are growing but I struggle to see how someone who has trained consistently hitting all areas regularly could continue making gains anywhere apart from the bodypart they are hitting.
Would be interesting if you could get one of your gym regulars who's doing a complete body routine to drop what he's doing and follow your new program... Hench, are you capable of learning something new? You seem to want to fit everything into your belief system. I have a theory about anti-aging that requires that I try to stimulate growth when I train and I have been doing this for over a decade now. What I haven't been doing is consistently training. What I am doing now resembles training but I am actually triggering hypertrophy each workout.
When you are doing what is required to rapidly grow your other muscles surrounding the arms will also grow because they are being used to hold you steady, etc. I train to the limit on every set. My belief is that you have to give the arms a reason to grow. You can't do just anything and expect rapid hypertrophy.
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Always capable of learning something new Vince. I can see why you are growing but I struggle to see how someone who has trained consistently hitting all areas regularly could continue making gains anywhere apart from the bodypart they are hitting.
Would be interesting if you could get one of your gym regulars who's doing a complete body routine to drop what he's doing and follow your new program...
I don't buy the idea that training one muscle group will significantly affect all other muscle groups as in training triceps and biceps, noticeably affecting one's torso musculature. However, some exercises have a greater impact on one's whole body than others, for example, squats, bench presses, dead lifts and overhead presses. I think I will continue to train all of my muscles with a variety of exercises. When I train triceps I do no less than three different exercises, same for biceps. My thinking is each exercise hits the muscle in a different way. Plus, this variety keeps working out more interesting.
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Bodybuilders are NEVER going to abandon what they believe. Arthur Jones gave up on them and for good reason. The lads in my gym have their own beliefs and I allow them to do their own thing as long as they don't wreck the place. If I were to take a guy who trains all bodyparts and get him to train only arms for a month what would happen to the rest of his upper body? Well, most would stay the same size or close enough that it wouldn't be noticed. In other words, the other muscles will not shrink just because you aren't directly training them. You have to appreciate that my method is very demanding on the body. You are not fooling around because the bigger you get the harder it is to generate more size. The effort required seems to increase in a geometric way. When you have to train this hard I can assure you the other muscles will be involved in the workouts and will keep their size. Think about how most of the muscles are attached to the shoulder area and you can see that doing one part must impact on the adjacent muscles.
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Bodybuilders are NEVER going to abandon what they believe. Arthur Jones gave up on them and for good reason. The lads in my gym have their own beliefs and I allow them to do their own thing as long as they don't wreck the place. If I were to take a guy who trains all bodyparts and get him to train only arms for a month what would happen to the rest of his upper body? Well, most would stay the same size or close enough that it wouldn't be noticed. In other words, the other muscles will not shrink just because you aren't directly training them. You have to appreciate that my method is very demanding on the body. You are not fooling around because the bigger you get the harder it is to generate more size. The effort required seems to increase in a geometric way. When you have to train this hard I can assure you the other muscles will be involved in the workouts and will keep their size. Think about how most of the muscles are attached to the shoulder area and you can see that doing one part must impact on the adjacent muscles.
shut the fuck up seriously, do you know how fucking stupid you sound? if you brought up the idea that Ronnie Coleman stop training chest and shoulders because "the ancillary work from training arms hits those muscle groups just fine" what do you think he'd say?
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So you do one exercise for triceps and on exercise for biceps, right?
What are your strength increases or both exercises?
Yes, I superset biceps and triceps. That way I get a better pump in my arms. In both exercises I have increased the resistance by approximately 67% in about 2 months.
I can't expect the rapid strength increases to continue. In the lying triceps movement I am using 7 plates now. In the past I remember using 9 plates. So I have a way to go.
However, I am doing the exercise with the arms contained now. In the past we didn't have side pads on the lying triceps machine. The angle is higher so that will affect
how much can be lifted as well. If you are growing rapidly you can expect rapid strength increases. Just how long this rapid growth can be sustained is something I am
now finding out.
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shut the fuck up seriously, do you know how fucking stupid you sound? if you brought up the idea that Ronnie Coleman stop training chest and shoulders because "the ancillary work from training arms hits those muscle groups just fine" what do you think he'd say?
Most of you guys are too thick to comprehend anything new. That is why they still use dumbbells. Do you think I am making this up as I go? No, I have discovered this to be true several times in the past and it is true today. The fact that you do not believe it doesn't make it false.
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Most of you guys are too thick to comprehend anything new. That is why they still use dumbbells. Do you think I am making this up as I go? No, I have discovered this to be true several times in the past and it is true today. The fact that you do not believe it doesn't make it false.
why havent you built a great physique then? and dont show those tired old pics of you in 1970 with 16 inch arms white as a ghost.
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why havent you built a great physique then? and dont show those tired old pics of you in 1970 with 16 inch arms white as a ghost.
What a sceptic you are. My arms were over 17 in 1970. In the 1975 photo they were about 17 1/2 cold.
I tore my right biceps in 1977 and haven't felt like training as a bodybuilder since. At least I won some titles in my day.
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Mr. Basile, what part of Austria are you from?
STAY POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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What a sceptic you are. My arms were over 17 in 1970. In the 1975 photo they were about 17 1/2 cold.
I tore my right biceps in 1977 and haven't felt like training as a bodybuilder since. At least I won some titles in my day.
So you haven't trained much for 34 years? You look fantastic at your age having not trained much for so long.
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Ropo makes a lot of statements about the effectiveness or otherwise of various machines. Listen, I am a designer of gym equipment. If you think it is easy then have a go at designing something original and new. Talk about 2% difference is pure speculation.....in polite terms you don't know what you are talking about.
Things might look similar but could be substantially different if compared properly. You don't want to mess around with dangerous exercises for the triceps because it is too easy to damage the connective tissue and you can end up with sore elbows that is more or less permanent. I can tell you variations of tennis elbow is no joke. If you do standing French presses with a barbell you can get sore elbows. Experience will tell you which exercises to avoid and which are okay. Sometimes okay exercises get to be dangerous if heavy weights are used. Little things like arm pads and side pads can make all the difference in the world. Why? Well, believe it or not almost all people cheat doing exercises in the gym. There are two things fuelling the lack of good form in exercises. One is the ego which sees just about everyone trying to use big weights so they look strong. The other is the belief that using heavier weights will result in larger muscles. This is only partly true. The requirement is that the target muscle is actually lifting the resistance.
Two days ago in my gym I found 2 young guys doing the lying triceps extensions. The shorter bloke was using 10 X 5kg plates. He wasn't a huge guy so I told him there was no way he could use that amount of weight. So he proceeded to show me that he could. Fair dinkum, the guy was doing 1/3 range reps and his elbows were sliding sideways. Also, his shoulders were rising up. His body wasn't in a strong position, either. So I got him to reduce the load to 6 plates and have another go. He was struggling to do the reps. Eventually, after several adjustments on the machine, he was successfully doing 5 plates! He could feel the difference and now appreciates how to use the machine and get some results. His mate was taller and he ended up using 4 plates instead of 7. I told both that if they could genuinely lift 10 plates for 10 reps they would have much bigger arms.....18" cold.
I solved the problem of the body rising during triceps pressdowns by installing a bar that allows the user to put his foot under and that keeps him from rising. Made that in the early 1980s. Previously we used a heavy dumbbell to do the same thing.
So this is your way to tell me that there will not be any video clips to compare? I don't design gym equipments for living, but it doesn't mean I don't do it at all. In fact, I have design and build many prototypes, and why? Because they were ordered from me, because the customer know what I can do. For example I made them a rowing handle, which gives you the opportunity to use as much load you want, but without any straps. You all know seated row and those ordinary handles like this:
(http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/im-0017.jpg)
If you need to go heavy with this, you sooner or later need straps to maintain your grip. I hate straps and didn't want to use them, so with my variation, you don't need them at all, and the answer is so simple. How you would solve this problem with your extra ordinary skills to overcomplicate training ? ;)
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gh15, is DOMS required for muscle growth?
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Vince is getting a good beating in Iron age forum from the Dick Admin and that slag Panting.
Use to be a good board. That board use to be home base to me once I got back into bodybuilding. Who is running the show there anyway? Who's admin? And I remember Panting? The woman mod, right? When the old fogeys took over it really became just an Arnold worshiping phag board.
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Many swear by triceps pressdowns but they are not that good compared to the lying extensions. My own experience led me to the DOMS theory. I was having a go at getting my arms big again back in 1998. So I was using pressdowns and was applying mechanical tension until the muscle was shaking. When my arms reached a bit over 17 inches the growth stopped. What the heck was this? So I had to do something different. Imagine my surprise when I got very sore from doing the lying extensions. How was that possible when I was training triceps severely and brutally? So a light went on in my brain. I wondered what would happen if I could keep my triceps sore. The result was rapid growth. This went against Hans Selye's theory of Stress. I shouldn't be getting stronger but I was.
I concluded that triceps pressdowns were not an effective triceps exercise. The lying extensions put the triceps in a stretched position and that helps them grow when trained hard. The pads contain the arms and therefore the user can exert maximum force using the triceps alone. Well, that is what should happen. Guys still manage to cheat and I see their shoulders rising and the arms moving apart. If your brain can't keep your body doing the right thing re putting severe mechanical tension on the triceps then they are simply not going to grow.
Maybe I missed it but what variation of lying tricep extensions are you referring to?
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So this is your way to tell me that there will not be any video clips to compare? I don't design gym equipments for living, but it doesn't mean I don't do it at all. In fact, I have design and build many prototypes, and why? Because they were ordered from me, because the customer know what I can do. For example I made them a rowing handle, which gives you the opportunity to use as much load you want, but without any straps. You all know seated row and those ordinary handles like this:
(http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/im-0017.jpg)
If you need to go heavy with this, you sooner or later need straps to maintain your grip. I hate straps and didn't want to use them, so with my variation, you don't need them at all, and the answer is so simple. How you would solve this problem with your extra ordinary skills to overcomplicate training ? ;)
What does yours look like that you don't need straps?
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gh15, is DOMS required for muscle growth?
very good question. also curious what his thoughts are on going to failure.
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Use to be a good board. That board use to be home base to me once I got back into bodybuilding. Who is running the show there anyway? Who's admin? And I remember Panting? The woman mod, right? When the old fogeys took over it really became just an Arnold worshiping phag board.
they have just Idiots as Admin..the worst is an old fart called Mike Payne who is a religious ranting psycho(he is a Brit that lives in Ireland ???) The posts are a lot better here. I only came across GetBig because they always slagged this site down..i feel at Home here. It's really boring in IA. You are not missing anything believe me ;)
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they have just Idiots as Admin..the worst is an old fart called Mike Payne who is a religious ranting psycho(he is a Brit that lives in Ireland ???) The posts are a lot better here. I only came across GetBig because they always slagged this site down..i feel at Home here. It's really boring in IA. You are not missing anything believe me ;)
LOL! Same here. I found my way to this board because of all the crap IA gave to the people here. I wonder how many people IA has brought over here. This board can get pretty brutal -- even cruel -- but they keep it real here and it's not a place for cry babies. I do give Vince props for sticking it out. Love him or hate him he's a fixture here and part of what makes GetBig -- GetBig.
Fair dinkum.
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LOL! Same here. I found my way to this board because of all the crap IA gave to the people here. I wonder how many people IA has brought over here. This board can get pretty brutal -- even cruel -- but they keep it real here and it's not a place for cry babies. I do give Vince props for sticking it out. Love him or hate him he's a fixture here and part of what makes GetBig -- GetBig.
Fair dinkum.
you appear to get genuinely upset by some of the stuff on here
thought that ass kissing shit over there would be more your thing
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you appear to get genuinely upset by some of the stuff on here
thought that ass kissing shit over there would be more your thing
Sure I get pissed off over here just like I do in real life. But I don't see why that would mean you like ass kissing. Of course ass kissing/nut hugging nowadays just means that you agree with someone that others do not. But I got banned from IA anyway. And since I was chosen to be part of the gh15 original eleven apostles and also chosen to be an elf (undeserved btw) I pretty much feel above it all now. When you can hook people up with strango or Nordic you realize the tremendous power you wield. It's humbling and not to be taken lightly. It's a huge responsibility but it's not without it's perks. I get a huge discount on sushi, pineapple juice and Brewers ice cream.
Please fellas, no PMs. The elfs will contact you if you matter.
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Dude...get a grip on yourself...show some respect...this guy might be a little past his prime but he achieved a lot when he was younger and deserves respect for that alone...the fact that he is trying to regain his strength and muscle mass is a tribute to his competitive spirit....he refuses to give up on himself and is trying to show that you can turn back the clock somewhat instead of crying about how feeble you are when you get to be his age....
what have YOU done in your life bodybuilding-wise??????????????????????????????????????????????????
Good post!
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My current workout routine is basically one muscle group per day with one complete cycle taking six days. For example: I work arms, biceps, triceps and forearms on Monday, Tuesday I work hams and calves, Wednesday I work back, Thursday shoulders, traps and abs, Friday chest and Saturday quads and calves. I limit my routine to what I can accomplish in about 45 minutes and never more than an hour. If I do cardio, that time is added time. Therefore longest workout would last 1 1/2 hours. I do a warm-up set and two to four work sets for each exercise. Usually, I do about three or four exercises for each muscle worked. Rest time between sets is never less then a minute and up to three minutes for larger muscles like quads. Every six to eight weeks I take a week off and just swim laps or do something different that requires some exercise. This routine allows a maximum recovery time which is more important the older one is. My body responds well to this.
I am fairly lean normally. I eat a normal healthy diet with an eye to protein intake. I am not a big junk food person, so that isn't an issue for me. My height is 5'11" and I weigh around 209 presently. I would guess that my body fat is about 12%. My arms and my neck both measure about 17" (no double chin). My waist is 34-35".
When I was a teenager, I was exceptionally skinny. Same approximate height as today, but weighed 126 lbs. This is what got me started weight training. I have trained most all of my adult life with very few breaks. I train to be fit and not to be a competitive bodybuilder or a muscle freak (don't believe I have the genetics for that). The most I ever weighed was 225 lbs. This was when I was twenty-nine. When I am not lifting, I eat less and generally drop some weight. My base weight most of my adult life has been 185-195 lbs. Over the last two years I've added some lean muscle mass arms a result of being on TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). This is due to my being treated by my doctor for low testosterone levels.
When I do take a block of time off from the gym and return to working out, I drop the poundages down, going light the first week back. It is all about how I feel. I am not looking to break any records or prove anything. I can generally gauge how I am doing by how sore I am. A little sore for a couple of days seems about right for me. More than that is a sure sign I am overdoing it. Given my laid back nature, that isn't usually a problem. LOL.
The saying is that a picture is worth a thousand words....here is two thousand words worth. Both are recent. The headless one is about two months old and the other one is maybe a year ago.
Looking good there my friend....big props!!
Keep pumping!!
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Vince your lying tricep ext. machine is very similar to Larry Scott's "craddle bench" extensions, yes get full range of motion, lock elbows in so movement is much stricter and less trauma on elbows...Nice machine you have!
Did you ever experiemnt with close grip benches and dips for tricep exercises?
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Good post!
Thanks...I think what Vince is trying to do is very admirable.....yes its good for us to give him a little ribbing in jest, but not to destroy the guy because he wants to look good at his age.
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Two inches in two months is like something FLEX or Men's Health would promise.
The wily old fox must know something..
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As a bodybuilder, you no doubt have experience D.O.M.S. ~ You also know from experience that training hard despite such soreness not only results in continuous soreness, but also tends to invite a sense of over-training and eventual staleness.
It seem rather superfluous, therefore, to admonish you to avoid this kind of soreness to the extent possible, while at the same time not giving up any of your training time and abilities to engage in intense training.
Yet, despite the good sense such an admonition makes, most bodybuilders trudge on, driving even harder through the pain they should be trying to avoid.
The common assumption seems to be that such pain is some sort of a signal - 'no pain, no gain" - that growth is occurring. It is not.
Indeed, this kind of pain is a signal that a destructive process is taking place. Growth and Development slows down during such periods.
Another common fallacy among bodybuilders is that the pain they experience near the tie-ins between two muscle groups-for example, near the base of the bicep, top of the tricep, or near the armpit where the delt and pec come together - is indicitative that the exercise they are doing is going to help that particular area in some sort of "isolated" way or localized sense.
It does NOT.
The pain that is felt is merely stretched or torn connective tissue, probably resultant from the negative/eccentric phase of the applied exercise(s). Again, this kind of pain is a warning that destructive process is in the works- it does not signal growth.
By careful and progressive application of heavier and heavier eccentric movements, performed over a period of months and years, the ligaments and tendons, as well as the connective tissues near the tendons can be strengthened such that minimal pain, if any, will be felt after heavy training.
The line between adaptive stress and destructive stress is a fine line. Your bodybuilding efforts can only be maximized if you learn how to walk the gauntlet between these two states, never undertraining for fear of lost effect, and never overtraining for fear of injury, boredom and diminished gains.
No bodybuilder is immune to overtraining. Bodybuilders have a powerful will to excel. This desire to be the BEST and to WIN is healthy, but it has to be tempered with wisdom and most of all PATIENCE.
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As a bodybuilder, you no doubt have experience D.O.M.S. ~ You also know from experience that training hard despite such soreness not only results in continuous soreness, but also tends to invite a sense of over-training and eventual staleness.
It seem rather superfluous, therefore, to admonish you to avoid this kind of soreness to the extent possible, while at the same time not giving up any of your training time and abilities to engage in intense training.
Yet, despite the good sense such an admonition makes, most bodybuilders trudge on, driving even harder through the pain they should be trying to avoid.
The common assumption seems to be that such pain is some sort of a signal - 'no pain, no gain" - that growth is occurring. It is not.
Indeed, this kind of pain is a signal that a destructive process is taking place. Growth and Development slows down during such periods.
Another common fallacy among bodybuilders is that the pain they experience near the tie-ins between two muscle groups-for example, near the base of the bicep, top of the tricep, or near the armpit where the delt and pec come together - is indicitative that the exercise they are doing is going to help that particular area in some sort of "isolated" way or localized sense.
It does NOT.
The pain that is felt is merely stretched or torn connective tissue, probably resultant from the negative/eccentric phase of the applied exercise(s). Again, this kind of pain is a warning that destructive process is in the works- it does not signal growth.
By careful and progressive application of heavier and heavier eccentric movements, performed over a period of months and years, the ligaments and tendons, as well as the connective tissues near the tendons can be strengthened such that minimal pain, if any, will be felt after heavy training.
The line between adaptive stress and destructive stress is a fine line. Your bodybuilding efforts can only be maximized if you learn how to walk the gauntlet between these two states, never undertraining for fear of lost effect, and never overtraining for fear of injury, boredom and diminished gains.
No bodybuilder is immune to overtraining. Bodybuilders have a powerful will to excel. This desire to be the BEST and to WIN is healthy, but it has to be tempered with wisdom and most of all PATIENCE.
agreed...I never work out a muscle group when it is still sore...it does soon lead to burnout and overtraining.....I wait until the muscle is fully recovered and there is no pain at all
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In my opinion,it`s not the greatest thing to train a muscle that hasn`t fully recouperated.
If just slightly sore,no big deal,but if you can`t walk right from Modays leg day,I wouldn`t train them again on Thursday.
Just my thoughts,but you do not grow in the gym,you only grow while the worked muscle is resting, and being fed correctly of course.
Right now I`m training 6 X a week,everything worked twice weekly.........haven`t done this in eons and it`s been very productive for me.
Keep pumping Vince,my opinion is just that,an opinion.......if what you are doing is working,and it seems that it is,then run with it.
Good luck and stay focused! :)
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Thanks...I think what Vince is trying to do is very admirable.....yes its good for us to give him a little ribbing in jest, but not to destroy the guy because he wants to look good at his age.
the fact that you think someone can be destroyed by a comment on a bb board
sums you up quite nicely
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Lactic acid does also possess another great quality. Once it builds up and burns real bad, you can shake it out and it (which ads oxygen) and it will return to the muscle basically as ATP (Adenosine Tri Phosphate) and give you energy again.
It would be much like a cars useless polluntant *exhaust* going right back into the fuel tank and being converted as fuel.
Pretty cool, our bodies.
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gh15, is DOMS required for muscle growth?
No...IT DOES NOT.
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I didn't think so.
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the fact that you think someone can be destroyed by a comment on a bb board
sums you up quite nicely
it seems to me thats obviously your intention, although its failing...
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Didn't Basile say he wasn't going to post here anymore ???
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No...IT DOES NOT.
Coach 15... ;D
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Listen to all these experts. Provide more than just comments when claiming things as facts. I will accept a limited anecdotal experience if significant gains or otherwise resulted.
Dyslexic talks about avoiding overtraining and destructive injuries but also to avoid undertraining. How on earth can one tell which is which?
I can tell you that much of what we learned about training is false. Quite literally false. The one thing they got right in the fifties was that training broke down tissue and the body overcompensated and so the muscles grew larger. How exactly that happens is probably now known but unlikely by most here. In the vacuum of knowledge, appear all manner of experts who really know very little.
For example, if you can make your arms grow an inch in a month while training only arms will the rest of your upper body get smaller? Answer: no. I know this for a fact. The problem with most blokes here is that they don't experiment. If you are lazy you might want to try only arms for a month. See what happens and report back. Don't sit there as some armchair expert saying this and that.
Don't ask gh15 about hypertrophy in my thread. He has nothing of value to contribute. Those who suggest DOMS is not related to hypertrophy are wrong. Here is a way to find out for sure. Okay, train your left arm biceps doing what you usually do. For the right arm do whatever it takes to get the muscle really sore for several days. On the third day hit the sore biceps again just as hard. Lots of maximum sets as I advocate. If there is no difference between the two arms after a month I will be surprised. I would prefer if you can make both biceps and triceps sore for that month. Then you will experience very rapid growth.
Yes, injuries are a worry with any kind of extreme training. If you have weaknesses in your connective tissue they will be the weak link when the resistance gets heavier. In other words, former injuries will be the first to present as the kind of soreness you don't want to have. You will have to use good judgement here to avoid the kind of injury that will cause you to suspend training. Any sharp, acute pain is a sign that something isn't right. Little niggling pains might go away or they might get aggravated and become a worry.
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Didn't Basile say he wasn't going to post here anymore ???
Yes, but I was going to keep posting my progress at Ironage. I closed the thread there. At least here on Getbig there is plenty of negativity that helps to motivate me to try harder.
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Geez Vince, look I like the posters over at Ironage but I know if go over there and even slightly debate almost any science of case study I'll get kicked off. Exept for you doing this on your own you have no basis for a conclusion. Sorry Vince, but again. DOMS and hypertrophy have nothing to do with each other.
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Basile's head is always sore and sometimes grows an inch in a month. This is a known scientific fact. Those who dont agree are ignorant. When the head gets bigger the body also grows.
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Basile's head is always sore and sometimes grows an inch in a month. This is a known scientific fact. Those who dont agree are ignorant. When the head gets bigger the body also grows.
Welcome to Getbig ;D
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Geez Vince, look I like the posters over at Ironage but I know if go over there and even slightly debate almost any science of case study I'll get kicked off. Exept for you doing this on your own you have no basis for a conclusion. Sorry Vince, but again. DOMS and hypertrophy have nothing to do with each other.
When I read a statement like this from you it makes me wonder about your experience. You haven't read the literature to make a statement like that. You obviously don't have the experience re this phenomenon, either.
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When I read a statement like this from you it makes me wonder about your experience. You haven't read the literature to make a statement like that. You obviously don't have the experience re this phenomenon, either.
WTF, it's like 3am in Australia ???
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Geez Vince, look I like the posters over at Ironage but I know if go over there and even slightly debate almost any science of case study I'll get kicked off. Exept for you doing this on your own you have no basis for a conclusion. Sorry Vince, but again. DOMS and hypertrophy have nothing to do with each other.
if you say your opinion over there you would get kicked off...i have never know such a shower of idiots apart from a few people the most are just dicks. I mean Bob scalise was really out of order to Vince...he wrote "i don't think your stay here will be long". Scalise looks like a fat bald bastard who has never worked out. Don't blame Vince for breaking up his thread over there. Here you can say your opinion and you can look at a bit of bum and tit in the 18 section... :D
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Donny, are you British?
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Looks like old Basile has stopped posting at Ironage. He knows he not wanted there.
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WTF, it's like 3am in Australia ???
;D
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When I read a statement like this from you it makes me wonder about your experience. You haven't read the literature to make a statement like that. You obviously don't have the experience re this phenomenon, either.
Actually I have. This is why I dispute this theory.
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it seems to me thats obviously your intention, although its failing...
i couldn't give a shit
unlike you cup cake
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Coach 15... ;D
LOL ;D
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if you say your opinion over there you would get kicked off...i have never know such a shower of idiots apart from a few people the most are just dicks. I mean Bob scalise was really out of order to Vince...he wrote "i don't think your stay here will be long". Scalise looks like a fat bald bastard who has never worked out. Don't blame Vince for breaking up his thread over there. Here you can say your opinion and you can look at a bit of bum and tit in the 18 section... :D
I don't get involved in debates over there and I rarely post over there. I do however like reading the stories of some of the greats that post on Ironage. This is the ONLY site where I post my BS ;D
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Vince telling Coach his theories dont work reminds me of the Musclehedz cartoon in Flex magazine where some 60 something skinny/fat guy in a headband is telling some huge ripped bodybuilder that hes doing curls all wrong and telling him he'll never build muscle that way, lol.
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Looks like old Basile has stopped posting at Ironage. He knows he not wanted there.
I haven't stopped posting at Ironage. I don't find contributing to discussions about training at all rewarding there. Here at Getbig everyone is an expert. Well, over there most are old experts. Nuff said.
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Actually I have. This is why I dispute this theory.
Dispute isn't sufficient, you have to refute my theory. That you cannot do.
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I haven't stopped posting at Ironage. I don't find contributing to discussions about training at all rewarding there. Here at Getbig everyone is an expert. Well, over there most are old experts. Nuff said.
You know very little about training. You said in a recent post that you had done very little bodybuilding training since 1977. That is why you look so out of shape at 70, and as if you had never trained in you life.
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You know very little about training. You said in a recent post that you had done very little bodybuilding training since 1977. That is why you look so out of shape at 70, and as if you had never trained in you life.
Wash your mouth out with black tar soap. I am a fine figure of a man. Just carry a tad extra safety fat in case I get sick. All will be revealed in due course. Can you imagine how good it feels
to walk around at 69 being much bigger than I was when I was in my prime? You see my contempories like Arnold and Sergio looking unimpressive. Zane and Scott aren't the big guys they used to be.
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if you say your opinion over there you would get kicked off...i have never know such a shower of idiots apart from a few people the most are just dicks. I mean Bob scalise was really out of order to Vince...he wrote "i don't think your stay here will be long". Scalise looks like a fat bald bastard who has never worked out. Don't blame Vince for breaking up his thread over there. Here you can say your opinion and you can look at a bit of bum and tit in the 18 section... :D
Scalise -- I remember that old douche very well. Always on my ass about something finally banning me. Another bald old fart that doesn't look like he ever lifted a weight in his life.
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Wash your mouth out with black tar soap. I am a fine figure of a man. Just carry a tad extra safety fat in case I get sick. All will be revealed in due course. Can you imagine how good it feels
to walk around at 69 being much bigger than I was when I was in my prime? You see my contempories like Arnold and Sergio looking unimpressive. Zane and Scott aren't the big guys they used to be.
Vince, do you consider being big in and of itself better. Just because you weigh more than you did in the 1970s do you think you are better and more impressive now?
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Vince, do you consider being big in and of itself better. Just because you weigh more than you did in the 1970s do you think you are better and more impressive now?
Good question bro.
Bigger is not better.......better is better!!
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the new way to train is right here, front page news on Yahoo
http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/how-to-exercise-your-biceps-without-using-weights.html
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Dispute isn't sufficient, you have to refute my theory. That you cannot do.
Well, with all due respect, Coach, while being well into his forties, attained a level of contest shape that exceeded yours while you were in your prime. Coach, while he was in his twenties, was vastly superior to your physique at any time in your career.
Other than you, I don't think anyone will dispute that.
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When I came to Golds Gym in October 1968 I was hoping to stay in LA and train for contests.....to follow the bodybuilder's dream. I lasted a month then went back to Vancouver. LA is a scary place to survive in when you don't have a job there. I had a SS card number but I didn't want to get deported like the Mexicans did. There were no personal trainers in those days. Well, not as a common profession.
While training there I got to the biggest I had been as a natural. I was 210 pounds and had 17 1/2" cold arms and calves. Right now my calves are bigger than that and I don't train them. My arms are now bigger as well and that makes me feel good. The last time I competed my arms were 17 1/4" but I could pump them over 18" easily. Getting 18 inch cold arms in contest condition isn't at all easy. Not in those days, and not today....of course naturally. No way I am going the pill and injection route that the followers of gh15 take. That isn't bodybuilding. It is abuse of oneself physically, mentally, socially and even morally. How can anyone be proud of what he built via the chemist? You can't. It is all bullshit and fake.
Coach had a good build. No doubt about that. However, what is his knowledge of hypertrophy theory? I haven't read anything that would compel me to drop what I know and follow the coach. Next thing I would be training with ropes and tyres and wondered what the hell happened to my self-respect!
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I haven't read anything that would compel me to drop what I know and follow the coach. Next thing I would be training with ropes and tyres and wondered what the hell happened to my self-respect!
Reading is not required. Just have a look in a mirror....
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Looking in the mirror doesn't help. We all think we look better than we are. Photos tell the story. They will be taken and published when they have a good story to tell.
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8)
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When I came to Golds Gym in October 1968 I was hoping to stay in LA and train for contests.....to follow the bodybuilder's dream. I lasted a month then went back to Vancouver. LA is a scary place to survive in when you don't have a job there. I had a SS card number but I didn't want to get deported like the Mexicans did. There were no personal trainers in those days. Well, not as a common profession.
While training there I got to the biggest I had been as a natural. I was 210 pounds and had 17 1/2" cold arms and calves. Right now my calves are bigger than that and I don't train them. My arms are now bigger as well and that makes me feel good. The last time I competed my arms were 17 1/4" but I could pump them over 18" easily. Getting 18 inch cold arms in contest condition isn't at all easy. Not in those days, and not today....of course naturally. No way I am going the pill and injection route that the followers of gh15 take. That isn't bodybuilding. It is abuse of oneself physically, mentally, socially and even morally. How can anyone be proud of what he built via the chemist? You can't. It is all bullshit and fake.
Coach had a good build. No doubt about that. However, what is his knowledge of hypertrophy theory? I haven't read anything that would compel me to drop what I know and follow the coach. Next thing I would be training with ropes and tyres and wondered what the hell happened to my self-respect!
I know it's bold of me to presume to speak for Coach but as far as I understand him he makes a clear distinction between athletic training and conditioning and bodybuilding. Leg extentions and leg curls have little application to athletic training and ropes and tires have little application to bodybuilding.
All the reading, book knowledge and class room antics mean little to real world results. For the longest time the medical profession insisted that anabolic steroids did nothing to enhance hypertrophy and athletic perfromance. It use to be on the package insert.
And though you claim we just indulge in bro science without any scientific studies to back it up it seems that you seem to ignore studies that don't comport with your beliefs and bias and just make up your own theories without anything to back it up, e.g. Only need 25 grams of protein a day. Age is no barrier to hypertrophy.
As Good As It Gets: Octogenarian Muscles Don't Get Stronger With Exercise, Study Finds
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090331091250.htm
Aging Muscles: 'Hard To Build, Easy To Lose'
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090911103807.htm
Study Explains Why Muscles Weaken With Age and Points to Possible Therapy
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110802125549.htm
Evaluation of protein requirements for trained strength athletes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1474076
"In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements for young healthy males."
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Come on, Pellius, spare me the sciencedaily fodder. No one there has done experiments with my protocols and ideas. So don't use any of that research to criticize me because it isn't relevant. I know what I am talking about. Good old results. Fast results. So your theories about ageing people hardly apply to what I am doing. My arms are big again. I would try harder to make them bigger but my elbows are tender. So I am not pushing myself too hard there. I will start training legs soon. Next week for sure. That should be interesting.
Coach may know plenty of things about training. So did heaps of big guys. Who among them have advocated any new ideas in hypertrophy training? I haven't read anything from Coach that makes me think he understood the hypertrophy process. That is why Mike Mentzer felt the way he did about Arnold. Mike was light years ahead of Arnold in that respect. Mike was a thinker and came up with his Heavy Duty. I don't buy it but Ray Mentzer was a big guy and he told us how to do a modified method that worked for some of the guys. Most refuse to train that hard or perhaps are incapable of doing so.
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Come on, Pellius, spare me the sciencedaily fodder. No one there has done experiments with my protocols and ideas. So don't use any of that research to criticize me because it isn't relevant. I know what I am talking about. Good old results. Fast results. So your theories about ageing people hardly apply to what I am doing. My arms are big again. I would try harder to make them bigger but my elbows are tender. So I am not pushing myself too hard there. I will start training legs soon. Next week for sure. That should be interesting.
Coach may know plenty of things about training. So did heaps of big guys. Who among them have advocated any new ideas in hypertrophy training? I haven't read anything from Coach that makes me think he understood the hypertrophy process. That is why Mike Mentzer felt the way he did about Arnold. Mike was light years ahead of Arnold in that respect. Mike was a thinker and came up with his Heavy Duty. I don't buy it but Ray Mentzer was a big guy and he told us how to do a modified method that worked for some of the guys. Most refuse to train that hard or perhaps are incapable of doing so.
OK, so scientific studies don't matter. Real world superior results to you, like Coach, don't matter. We just have to go by your thus far unproven word that does not comport to reality.
Fair dinkum. We await your progress and proof. Your calves may be bigger than your 1970s physique but that's because they are thicker and fatter. Same with your arms.
If anyone has seen a difference in the arm picture of your first post and your arm picture now please edify the rest of us. Post those two pics side by side and point out the perceptible improvements.
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No offense, but your arms are big again?? Please! Work arms on Mon, Wed and Fri. 5 sets of 5 reps and consume I large pizza pie three times a week and your arms will be bigger. Throw in some squats and you will be on your way—to bigger.
You would receive a lot more respect if you at least had some physical attributes that point to the fact you worked out, watched your diet, and were in some type of decent shape. Or any shape that at least looked athletic.
And you carry “just a tad of extra safety fat” in case you get sick. Please, you cannot be serious. Walking around at 69 “much bigger” than when you were in your prime is very obtuse statement. It is called being much “fatter” than when you were in your prime…
If you were walking around “much bigger” now than when you won Mr. Canada, but at the same or less body fat level we would all be impressed and certainly listen your gratis advice. But the fact is, your don’t. That should be your goal. That would be impressive and gain some respect.
Kirstie Alley has big arms to, at times.. Big deal! It certainly does not make her look better that she did at when she was young and slender.
Reality Vince..
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Ok....then I refute it! Pick up a book once in a while Vince. Fuck!
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Wash your mouth out with black tar soap. I am a fine figure of a man. Just carry a tad extra safety fat in case I get sick. All will be revealed in due course. Can you imagine how good it feels
to walk around at 69 being much bigger than I was when I was in my prime? You see my contempories like Arnold and Sergio looking unimpressive. Zane and Scott aren't the big guys they used to be.
oh man..everything above here....
what have you just said and done.
oh man. :-\ what exactly are you looking at? this is worse than the vince goodrum guy.
you are to be commended for your efforts in having a try at your age and really for having such a positive mind, but now it is just translating into pure cockiness with a touch of "coo coo/delusion" that sets in around about your age which i should not tease about as this is nature taking its course.
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Wash your mouth out with black tar soap. I am a fine figure of a man. Just carry a tad extra safety fat in case I get sick. All will be revealed in due course. Can you imagine how good it feels
to walk around at 69 being much bigger than I was when I was in my prime? You see my contempories like Arnold and Sergio looking unimpressive. Zane and Scott aren't the big guys they used to be.
Up until recently, I thought carrying around some extra weight made me appear a little more impressive. I hadn't considered your idea of a safety net in case I got sick. -Interesting theory. However, I am not sure it is valid.
Today, I had physical therapy for my lower back. It has been causing me pain for the past couple of weeks. An x-ray revealed that I have arthritis and degenerative disk disease in my spine....hence the pain, muscle spasms and sciatica. My doctor scheduled me for many more weeks of therapy sessions, three times a week. It's going to cost me a bit over time as I have a $25 copay for each session. Anyway, according to the therapist, I am pretty strong including my core muscles. I am not very flexible though. I was surprised at how difficult some of the exercises I will be doing are for me. I suppose they will get easier as I become used to them.
As for the weight connection, I suspect being a bit lighter would help with flexibility. Today I weighed 205 at 5'11" my waist looks pretty tight. I am thinking about dropping ten to twenty pounds to see if this would help with my lumbar issues. We will see. I am going to the gym tomorrow to get some kind of a workout in. I have instructions to keep the weights fairly light for now. -Ought to be interesting. Maybe I'll try swimming some laps tomorrow too.
Aging is a bitch!
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Coach, that isn't how you refute a theory. Nice try.
Pellius is just trying to get out of having to pay for my dinner when I visit Honolulu. He will pay, there is no doubt about it.
Pellius, I can read abstracts and results from experiments. Those studies didn't involve trying to build the arms of the old folk. Therefore, those
studies do not apply to what I am doing and are not illuminating. They agree with what Pellius has said and what he believes.
Getting older sucks. You guys will find out. Diminished everything. So, imagine my surprise when I saw that I was still able to grow
muscle no matter how old I got. That went against what I was led to believe in the past. The scientists don't subscribe to my
training methods so are not going to apply them in any study. You people, collectively, are sure stubborn. Here I am telling you the
earth is not flat and not one of you believes me.
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Coach, that isn't how you refute a theory. Nice try.
Pellius is just trying to get out of having to pay for my dinner when I visit Honolulu. He will pay, there is no doubt about it.
Pellius, I can read abstracts and results from experiments. Those studies didn't involve trying to build the arms of the old folk. Therefore, those
studies do not apply to what I am doing and are not illuminating. They agree with what Pellius has said and what he believes.
Getting older sucks. You guys will find out. Diminished everything. So, imagine my surprise when I saw that I was still able to grow
muscle no matter how old I got. That went against what I was led to believe in the past. The scientists don't subscribe to my
training methods so are not going to apply them in any study. You people, collectively, are sure stubborn. Here I am telling you the
earth is not flat and not one of you believes me.
Are you documenting all of your training methods to share with us?
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OK, so scientific studies don't matter. Real world superior results to you, like Coach, don't matter. We just have to go by your thus far unproven word that does not comport to reality.
Fair dinkum. We await your progress and proof. Your calves may be bigger than your 1970s physique but that's because they are thicker and fatter. Same with your arms.
If anyone has seen a difference in the arm picture of your first post and your arm picture now please edify the rest of us. Post those two pics side by side and point out the perceptible improvements.
you are wasting your time
unless you agree with him he will dismiss you completely
hate to say i told you so
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No offense, but your arms are big again?? Please! Work arms on Mon, Wed and Fri. 5 sets of 5 reps and consume I large pizza pie three times a week and your arms will be bigger. Throw in some squats and you will be on your way—to bigger.
You would receive a lot more respect if you at least had some physical attributes that point to the fact you worked out, watched your diet, and were in some type of decent shape. Or any shape that at least looked athletic.
And you carry “just a tad of extra safety fat” in case you get sick. Please, you cannot be serious. Walking around at 69 “much bigger” than when you were in your prime is very obtuse statement. It is called being much “fatter” than when you were in your prime…
If you were walking around “much bigger” now than when you won Mr. Canada, but at the same or less body fat level we would all be impressed and certainly listen your gratis advice. But the fact is, your don’t. That should be your goal. That would be impressive and gain some respect.
Kirstie Alley has big arms to, at times.. Big deal! It certainly does not make her look better that she did at when she was young and slender.
Reality Vince..
You Can`t Flex Fat !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Progressing rapidly which is almost scary!
So, imagine my surprise when I saw that I was still able to grow muscle no matter how old I got.
WHERE!!??
WHAT! MUSCLE!!!!!???
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Come on, Pellius, spare me the sciencedaily fodder. No one there has done experiments with my protocols and ideas. So don't use any of that research to criticize me because it isn't relevant. I know what I am talking about. Good old results. Fast results. So your theories about ageing people hardly apply to what I am doing. My arms are big again. I would try harder to make them bigger but my elbows are tender. So I am not pushing myself too hard there. I will start training legs soon. Next week for sure. That should be interesting.
Coach may know plenty of things about training. So did heaps of big guys. Who among them have advocated any new ideas in hypertrophy training? I haven't read anything from Coach that makes me think he understood the hypertrophy process. That is why Mike Mentzer felt the way he did about Arnold. Mike was light years ahead of Arnold in that respect. Mike was a thinker and came up with his Heavy Duty. I don't buy it but Ray Mentzer was a big guy and he told us how to do a modified method that worked for some of the guys. Most refuse to train that hard or perhaps are incapable of doing so.
Vince, you haven't convinced anyone or have had anything to back your hypertrophy theories. Nothing has really changed and nothing that you're saying is new to anyone who has been around. The OLD theory that DOMS (before anyone knew what "DOMS" was) is just that......old. But it's already been proven by reputable sources and studies that there is no correlation between DOMS, hypertrophy, power or strength. Therefore Vince you have nothing to back it up except for what you say. Just like you machine theories. I can give you dozens of literature saying why most machines are inferior to free weight training on a power,strength, hypertrophy and functional level as well as causing more injuries in the way of joint instability but you cannot seem to come up with a counter debate to "refute" my findings nor anyone else. This is the problem with you Vince.....you don't keep up with the times when it comes to research. The research and studies being done are being done on professional, college and high school athletes at a high level not in a bodybuiliding type-gym loaded with machines and hear say. You have some of the best research facilities in the world in Australia and New Zealand (that I frequently look to)...I suggest you check them out!!
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You Can`t Flex Fat !!!!!!!!!!!!
I think that sums up what I said....
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What does yours look like that you don't need straps?
It look little bit different, not much. Like Vince, I'm not about the reveal my secrets, I just talk about them like he is. It would have been nice to see his solving this problem with his experience, but he is too busy to explain his theories. What you can do. Not even the video clip to explain the non existing difference about the ROM of those two exercise.
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I think that sums up what I said....
Yup!! :)
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Seeing as how this thread is about bodybuilding in the later years,heres a pic from this week of 65 year old UK bodybuilder Bernie Cooper,now thats inspiration. :(
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Seeing as how this thread is about bodybuilding in the later years,heres a pic from this week of 65 year old UK bodybuilder Bernie Cooper,now thats inspiration. :(
I've seen this dude before. On a boatload but amazing for his age. Remarkable.
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Insane physique.....especially for his age!
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Seeing as how this thread is about bodybuilding in the later years,heres a pic from this week of 65 year old UK bodybuilder Bernie Cooper,now thats inspiration. :(
Yeah that is really impressive , pretty much for any age.
But this guy is using steroids and GH and I think the main reason why it's a lot harder for older guys to be in great shape is the decline of testosterone and growth hormone levels - so you can't really compare him to your average natural 65 year old guy of course. I also think that this guy built all that muscle when he was still a lot younger and is now just trying to hold on to it... I doubt he has really made any significant progress in terms of muscle mass over the past few years.
Vince is claiming that age does not matter when it comes to building a good body even without steroids... which is obviously complete bullshit and his pictures are a sad proof of this. Claiming he is bigger now than when he won the Mr. Canada just shows how delusional he really is.
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From what i remember about Bernie he didn`t start training until his 50s,he started competing in 2002 in the over 50s class,and no doubt he is on a load of gear and gh,but thats an amazing phsyique for his age.
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Delusional, and sadly Basile is descending into senile dementia and can't really help himself.
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Delusional, and sadly Basile is descending into senile dementia and can't really help himself.
Dude..you need to be more respectful with only nine posts
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Dude..you need to be more respectful with only nine posts
So you are saying, that I should become less and less respectful as my post count increases? Basile is demented. That is a statement of fact.
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Dude..you need to be more respectful with only nine posts
lol, only 9 on THAT username account ;)
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lol, only 9 on THAT username account ;)
my thoughts exactly
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So you are saying, that I should become less and less respectful as my post count increases? Basile is demented. That is a statement of fact.
no..just saying that here at getbig you need to get the lay of the land before you start insulting people right away.....you're like the guy who goes to a party where he doesn't know anybody and starts a fight as soon as he walks in the door ;)
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So what? Who are you to tell me what to do? You are not even a Mod. Showing respect in posts does not even begin to fit in at Getbig.
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So what? Who are you to tell me what to do? You are not even a Mod. Showing respect in posts does not even begin to fit in at Getbig.
Dude you just proved my point....just having fun with ya and fucking with you.....yet you're starting a fight with me because I hurt your feelings :)
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I am just now reading this thread and only read the first 5 posts ( not pages but POSTS) and am very proud of Vince for doing this.
I wish I could hop in a training session with you and take some notes from an old school guy like yourself!
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Dude you just proved my point....just having fun with ya and fucking with you.....yet you're starting a fight with me because I hurt your feelings :)
You have made no point or even any sense. My feelings are not hurt in any way.
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no..just saying that here at getbig you need to get the lay of the land before you start insulting people right away.....you're like the guy who goes to a party where he doesn't know anybody and starts a fight as soon as he walks in the door ;)
says the bottom feeder swinging off basilles nuts
bet you weigh bout 110 soaking wet
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Don't know who the new poster is but to say Vince is all those things you mentioned isn't right. He still has a fire to train at 69 which more than most 30+ year olds can say. He believes when he believes and stands up for it. Nothing wrong with that.
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You still look like shit.
HTH
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says the bottom feeder swinging off basilles nuts
bet you weigh bout 110 soaking wet
actually I'm 250...somewhat overweight but strong as all hell
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Don't know who the new poster is but to say Vince is all those things you mentioned isn't right. He still has a fire to train at 69 which more than most 30+ year olds can say. He believes when he believes and stands up for it. Nothing wrong with that.
good post :)
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Don't know who the new poster is but to say Vince is all those things you mentioned isn't right. He still has a fire to train at 69 which more than most 30+ year olds can say. He believes when he believes and stands up for it. Nothing wrong with that.
I don't think he has a fire. The man has owned a gym for decades and has looked liked dog shit for all that time. That is unacceptable. I personally think he was only in shape for a very short place in time (1970) I think he may have looked like shit for most of his life. He juiced up for a show to compete against no one and after he took the trophy, he disappeared into the city known as jokeville. Where am I wrong?
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Why doesn't a guy like Basile who has been around the "sport" most of his life have tons of pictures of him in shape and with many older fella's in the industry? something doesn't seem right :-\
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Yeah that is really impressive , pretty much for any age.
But this guy is using steroids and GH and I think the main reason why it's a lot harder for older guys to be in great shape is the decline of testosterone and growth hormone levels - so you can't really compare him to your average natural 65 year old guy of course. I also think that this guy built all that muscle when he was still a lot younger and is now just trying to hold on to it... I doubt he has really made any significant progress in terms of muscle mass over the past few years.
Vince is claiming that age does not matter when it comes to building a good body even without steroids... which is obviously complete bullshit and his pictures are a sad proof of this. Claiming he is bigger now than when he won the Mr. Canada just shows how delusional he really is.
Your post peaked my interest largely because I am 67 years old, still bodybuild and I am on TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). Without a doubt, one's testosterone levels are a benefit to their good health at any age. Low testosterone can be caused by a number of things including old age. I was diagnosed with low testosterone many years ago. However, my doctor at the time would not agree to testosterone replacement therapy because I also had an enlarged prostate. Fortunately for me, he retired forcing me to seek a new urologist. My current doctor, a urologist, diagnosed me with hypo-gonadism which was causing me to suffer from low testosterone about three years ago. I have been on TRT ever since. I can tell you that it has made a significant difference in my life and my good health, mental and physical. One of the many benefits is that weight training is more successful in terms of results despite the fact that I am on a relatively low dose of testosterone cypionate. There are a number of other health benefits which I won't go into here.
I think it is important to distinguish between self dosed and administered steroids including testosterone and HGH and medical treatment for a variety of conditions with testosterone and/or steroids. It seems to me that some people only think in terms of black and white when it comes to steroid use. Steroids can have significant benefits to people for a variety of medical conditions. Steroids get an undeserved bad wrap because of steroid abuse....particularly in the area of sports, including bodybuilding.
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actually I'm 250...somewhat overweight but strong as all hell
sure you are champ
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Are you documenting all of your training methods to share with us?
Sadly, Vince has suffered through the Great Sydney Tape Measure Famine, only to succumb to the Great East Australian Pencil & Notebook Drought.
It looks like he was spared the Southern Digital Camera Shortage though.
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well i think Vince brings it on himself with his cocky ways. I am correct and everyone else is dumb( or so he thinks ). well anyway let him think he is the "Iron Guru". I don't think he is a bad guy just a bit too sure of himself. ::)
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Sometimes I think Vince is the ultimate gimmick. I mean i guess there really is a Vince Basile who was mr cananda and owns a gym but someone who perhaps knows him well invented the persona on ironage and getbig in a pisstaking exercise.
It would make more sense if this was the case. The real Vince Basile probably doesnt even know he is a member of getbig and being mocked for his arrogance and dillusion. Probably the gimmick creator got him to flex his old guns in the gym a couple of weeks ago in order to build this experiement story around it. :-\
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(http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16696&d=1262958699)
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Looking at the awesome competitors for the 1970 Mr. Canada, it's no wonder Basile resorted to taking steroids.
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If someone had the opportunity to spend a day with Vince, whether it be in a gym or just sitting down and talking, that person would walk away having learned something.
Vince does possess a wealth of information. Sometimes it is abrasive, but who here isn't?
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I think it is important to distinguish between self dosed and administered steroids including testosterone and HGH and medical treatment for a variety of conditions with testosterone and/or steroids. It seems to me that some people only think in terms of black and white when it comes to steroid use. Steroids can have significant benefits to people for a variety of medical conditions. Steroids get an undeserved bad wrap because of steroid abuse....particularly in the area of sports, including bodybuilding.
Yeah completely agree with your post. I actually think that most or even all men beyond a certain age would largely benefit from TRT in terms of well-being and health.
Too low testosterone levels are probably worse than using testosterone within a certain range... and it will definitely improve your mental health as well just from feeling more energetic, better sex life etc.
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where's vince
(http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16696&d=1262958699)
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sure you are champ
got no reason to lie...I admitted to being overweight....didn't present myself as a near Olympiad as others on here do
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where's vince
In the middle.
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where's vince
Vince right there looks like an old Vince Gironda.
BE/ACT/STAY POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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got no reason to lie...I admitted to being overweight....didn't present myself as a near Olympiad as others on here do
ok tubby i believe you
a fat strong guy
awesome
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ok tubby i believe you
a fat strong guy
awesome
feel good about yourself???
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Sadly, Vince has suffered through the Great Sydney Tape Measure Famine, only to succumb to the Great East Australian Pencil & Notebook Drought.
It looks like he was spared the Southern Digital Camera Shortage though.
lolz
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Any updates?
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10/10
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updates?
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was just thinking about this earlier.
Come on Vince whats your sit rep?
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yes tell us all vince about your gains.
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was just thinking about this earlier.
Come on Vince whats your sit rep?
Youll have to speak up hes hard of hearing ;D
Nah hows it going pretty good i hope i will be dead at your age
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where's vince
Weak line-up would be an understatement. :-X
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updates?
I predict a fake injury kept him from reaching his goal ::) That and copious amounts of alcohol.
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I hope he's ok. Not seen that blue font for a while.
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When I started this experiment in September I well knew what to expect. Some rapid growth in muscle size accompanied with a big leap in strength. Within 3 months my arms were over 18 cold and I was very pleased. I had read about Bruce Randall saying that he could train his arms daily and still make gains. As my arms moved past the 18 inch barrier I got a bit excited so started training a bit more frequently. By this time I was lifting 8 plates in the lying triceps extensions. This particular exercise was more effective than doing a similar exercise on the modified Nautilus Triceps machine. Those who have followed my prescriptions know that I advocate training the same muscle every 3rd day without fail. Not on the 4th day and not on the 2nd day. Well, I retrained them on the 2nd day and when I reached 7 plates I felt a slight tear in my left triceps. What a bummer. So I had to back off doing arms and started doing legs during the break. After a week or so I tried arms again and this time my right arm felt like a mild tear. What the heck was going on?
I told my son about my slight injury and he had a look at my arms and told me I might have been putting pressure on the fascia of the triceps when the arms are pressing down during the extensions. To compound the pressure I was supersetting with a Nautilus Biceps machine where your arms are elevated but against pads. That required another couple of weeks off the arms program. In the meantime my legs are feeling firmer. I can tell you that as you age you avoid doing squats because they tax you so much. No way I was about to do 6 maximum sets of squats or leg presses!
What everyone here should know is that having 18 inch arms means you have to train hard and heavy. There is no other way to generate that much size. I hope to continue the experiment and take it to the next level but I am not so confident that I can avoid injuries. Lifting heavy and to the limit means you are courting disaster at any time.
The most difficult part will be losing some bodyfat. Goodness me but the safety fat stays with me if I diet. I lose muscle size instead. I don't fancy doing cardio because I have never done much of that in the past. The good thing about this experiment is that I am training hard and regularly again.
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Another bullshit cop-out from this old fart.
Pushing 70 and too stupid to modify training poundage's ( 8 plates on lying triceps extensions . . . four 5's a side maybe.) Pushing 70 and too dumb to do cardio and wonders why he is not losing fat. Pushing 70 and training arms every day . . . all this an no pics.
This chump has been a pain in the ass from day one with his BS, starting with pics of his grip strength over on ironage years ago.
Put up or shut up, pops.
THE BEEF
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you have to train hard and heavy. There is no other way to generate that much size.
The good thing about this experiment is that I am training hard
There's your answer right there, not DOMS. I'm suprised that you can handle that much volume as a natty and not regress
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I predict a fake injury kept him from reaching his goal ::)
You called it!
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You called it!
Yes, he did.
However, THE BEEF suggests there was no training experiment at all. This entire thread was just another platform for this douche to get attention. Nothing more.
THE BEEF
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Oh brother. So, despite years and years of telling us how and where to position our joints/tendons to avoid injury, Vince gets all farked up!?
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I told ya training on machines all the time would eventually lead to injury. But you know best...right Vince?
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vince is an idiot
the people on here that support him are very nieve
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What a sad collection of misfits and know-it-alls we see here. Maximum hypertrophy training can be dangerous for older men with decades of experience. Few of us can do heavy bench presses because of soreness in the shoulders. Sore elbows add to the weak links in the body.
I exceeded my previous maximum arm size last month. Imagine how good that made me feel. I already mentioned that my elbows were tender from soreness through doing very heavy pullovers way back in 1965. My elbows were sore for about 6 months and have been tender ever since. I have been careful this time but exceptional size requires an exceptional effort. I will resume training but proceed slower re adding resistance.
I have proven once again that significant growth is possible at my age so my experiment has been a success. The flotsam is too dense to appreciate my accomplishment.
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What a sad collection of misfits and know-it-alls we see here. Maximum hypertrophy training can be dangerous for older men with decades of experience. Few of us can do heavy bench presses because of soreness in the shoulders. Sore elbows add to the weak links in the body.
I exceeded my previous maximum arm size last month. Imagine how good that made me feel. I already mentioned that my elbows were tender from soreness through doing very heavy pullovers way back in 1965. My elbows were sore for about 6 months and have been tender ever since. I have been careful this time but exceptional size requires an exceptional effort. I will resume training but proceed slower re adding resistance.
I have proven once again that significant growth is possible at my age so my experiment has been a success. The flotsam is too dense to appreciate my accomplishment.
you achieved a flabby slab of fuck all
you are the most delusional person on here
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What a sad collection of misfits and know-it-alls we see here. Maximum hypertrophy training can be dangerous for older men with decades of experience. Few of us can do heavy bench presses because of soreness in the shoulders. Sore elbows add to the weak links in the body.
I exceeded my previous maximum arm size last month. Imagine how good that made me feel. I already mentioned that my elbows were tender from soreness through doing very heavy pullovers way back in 1965. My elbows were sore for about 6 months and have been tender ever since. I have been careful this time but exceptional size requires an exceptional effort. I will resume training but proceed slower re adding resistance.
I have proven once again that significant growth is possible at my age so my experiment has been a success. The flotsam is too dense to appreciate my accomplishment.
You are fat and delusional, hope this helps.
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What a sad collection of misfits and know-it-alls we see here. Maximum hypertrophy training can be dangerous for older men with decades of experience. Few of us can do heavy bench presses because of soreness in the shoulders. Sore elbows add to the weak links in the body.
I exceeded my previous maximum arm size last month. Imagine how good that made me feel. I already mentioned that my elbows were tender from soreness through doing very heavy pullovers way back in 1965. My elbows were sore for about 6 months and have been tender ever since. I have been careful this time but exceptional size requires an exceptional effort. I will resume training but proceed slower re adding resistance.
I have proven once again that significant growth is possible at my age so my experiment has been a success. The flotsam is too dense to appreciate my accomplishment.
So all this was about getting a bigger arm? Vince, when it comes to training you need to study and keep up with the times. You're stuck in the 70's.
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If old Vince lost the flab, he would have 14'' arms and weigh 160lbs. His arms are not even close to 18'' now as fat as he is.
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So all this was about getting a bigger arm? Vince, when it comes to training you need to study and keep up with the times. You're stuck in the 70's.
Coach is right on the money.
Max arm size exceeded promoted by 50lbs of fat. And sore elbows from pullovers, how the fuck do you do pullovers you fruity old bag of toys??? THE BEEF can see it now, " When I was in Venice in the summer of 70 I trained with all the greats, we had lunch at a German buffet while we discussed various methods of doing pullovers . . . they ( Zabo, Vince, Clayton, Wayne and yes Arnold ) all agreed I was right. And today we are all brothers of the bad elbow (much like your American Skull & Bones.)
Flotsam!!!!
THE BEEF
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Vince Spazall was in Southern California for just one week in the late sixties. He slept in his car and after returned to Canada. He later won the Mr. Canada title against very mediocre opposition. After that he rarely trained did no cardio and became weak and flabby. He remains so to this day. True story
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Weak line-up would be an understatement. :-X
Yeah, I gotta say, that's pretty pathetic. I would've done well in that show when I was barely 15 and only had six months of [over]training under my belt.
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You can`t flex fat!!
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What a sad collection of misfits and know-it-alls we see here. Maximum hypertrophy training can be dangerous for older men with decades of experience. Few of us can do heavy bench presses because of soreness in the shoulders. Sore elbows add to the weak links in the body.
I exceeded my previous maximum arm size last month. Imagine how good that made me feel. I already mentioned that my elbows were tender from soreness through doing very heavy pullovers way back in 1965. My elbows were sore for about 6 months and have been tender ever since. I have been careful this time but exceptional size requires an exceptional effort. I will resume training but proceed slower re adding resistance.
I have proven once again that significant growth is possible at my age so my experiment has been a success. The flotsam is too dense to appreciate my accomplishment.
Vince, with all respect, a few things:
1. Jetsam, flotsam, jizzum and scatum aside, you didn't actually prove anything. You say you made X amount of progress and offered a couple of photos, but that is actually less "proof" than Jones offered in the Colorado "Experiment."
2. You're committing the fallacy of Goal-Post Moving. Earlier on, you said maximal growth is possible regardless of age. There's a difference between maximal and significant.
3. How do you know you exceeded your previous best arm size with the "safety fat" you carry? You didn't have that fat at your biggest decades ago. That greatly skews measurement-based results ... when I was 16 and came off a hard diet, I was 171 pounds and quite lean after a week of eating everything in sight, not training and sleeping more than usual. I think my arms were about 16.25 or a little more. gH15 would probably say I was on something :)
Under Mentzer's influence, I decided more of the same was in order; i.e., tons upon tons of food and even less training. Within a few months, I was 190 pounds and I had 17" arms. But I was not much stronger and my abs and definition were long-gone. I slowly dieted back down to 175, really trained my ass off, got a lot stronger, and found my fatter 17" arm was now barely 16.5" :\
Arthur Jones said you "can't flex fat." No, but take a bodybuilder with 18" arms and low bodyfat and add 200 lbs. of adipose tissue to him, he'll probably have 26" blubbery arms.
I'm happy for you if you honestly feel you set a milestone, especially at your age, but I do hope that, while you're blasting any naysayers, you realize where some of them are coming from. A bunch are just contentious, stupid assholes who think it's fun to pick on other people, but I suss just as many had the things I noted in the backs of their minds when they flamed you.
Besides, you know the lay of the land here :) There are times I find it too Wild West-like, but at least it's not dominated by a cult mentality like you might find at most other sites (intensemuscle = Dante worshipers, Ironage = anyone after Haney sucks, yet other sites = MadCow 5x5 or piss off, etc., etc.). I happen to like Dante, Ironage and MadCow's stuff, but frontier town Getbig is one of the few places in which you can comment on all of them without a jacked-up moderator stifling the discussion.
Hope your triceps heals.
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You can`t flex fat!!
Damn, you beat me to it, Wes! ;)
In all fairness, I've no doubt Mr. Basile added a bunch of size to his arms after not training for awhile. Does that lend any credibility to his take on maximum hypertrophy training?
Honestly, no -- not by my standard. Take a highly-trained bodybuilder in his late 30s or early 40s, train him in ... whatever DOMS training exactly entails, and if that fellow comes out of it with measurably bigger arms, I might take notice. I like Vince so I hesitate to bash him, but really, anyone who resumes training after a lengthy layoff will see nice size gains for awhile. And when we get down to it, while I doubt Vince got fatter during his little experiment, like I said, Wes, you nailed it. Not that Vince is grossly obese, but I bet sumo wrestlers have really muscular arms under all that fat. Trick is, we'll never know until they take the fat off -- and the same holds true of someone who carries a small fraction the fat of a sumo, just like Vince.
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Doriancutlerman shows respect so deserves a considered response.
I just had another arm workout. The first effective one is almost a month. So my arms feel okay. I also worked out why I got injured. Over the decades I have evolved a method for training that is quite specific. I deviated from what I advocated and paid the price. You see, old ideas linger no matter what you think. Essentially, the default stimulus for hypertrophy is more resistance. It seems logical that if you keep adding resistance or weight that you will have to grow. If you reach a sticking point the natural thing to do is to add more weight in the belief this will do the trick and start more growth occurring.
My prescription is to aim for 15 to 20 reps for arm hypertrophy. After 3 maximum sets taken to the point of failure you find that the reps drop. If you started with 15 reps you might get 10 to 12 on the 4th maximum set. It partly depends on how much rest you take between the supersets. I tend to take 3 minutes and sometimes a bit more. I don't use the clock. It might be better to do so. Well, last month I was stuck on 18 inches so upped the resistance a plate. The trouble was I was getting only 9 or 10 reps for the first couple of sets. By the 4th set I was lucky to get 7 reps. Herein lies the source of potential injuries. The reps are too low to generate much in the way of a pump so you aren't as protected as you are when you are doing higher reps. Today I aimed at 20 reps instead of adding more weight and by the 4th set my reps were down to 12. That is fine. I really have to follow my method to the T. The trouble is I start getting doubts when my growth slows or stops. Part of the reason was I wasn't using the best apparatus to train on. My gym has my biceps-supinator and I love training on it. Of course, it is easier to use the Nautilus Biceps machine which is adjacent to the lying triceps machines. Those lying triceps machines are superior to the modified Nautilus Triceps lying version.
I will see if 19 inch arms are possible for me. Yes, I am still carrying more fat than I thought I was. I look okay in the mirror but not so good in photos. Reducing the fat will be attempted after I have achieved the size goals.
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Doriancutlerman shows respect so deserves a considered response.
I just had another arm workout. The first effective one is almost a month. So my arms feel okay. I also worked out why I got injured. Over the decades I have evolved a method for training that is quite specific. I deviated from what I advocated and paid the price. You see, old ideas linger no matter what you think. Essentially, the default stimulus for hypertrophy is more resistance. It seems logical that if you keep adding resistance or weight that you will have to grow. If you reach a sticking point the natural thing to do is to add more weight in the belief this will do the trick and start more growth occurring.
My prescription is to aim for 15 to 20 reps for arm hypertrophy. After 3 maximum sets taken to the point of failure you find that the reps drop. If you started with 15 reps you might get 10 to 12 on the 4th maximum set. It partly depends on how much rest you take between the supersets. I tend to take 3 minutes and sometimes a bit more. I don't use the clock. It might be better to do so. Well, last month I was stuck on 18 inches so upped the resistance a plate. The trouble was I was getting only 9 or 10 reps for the first couple of sets. By the 4th set I was lucky to get 7 reps. Herein lies the source of potential injuries. The reps are too low to generate much in the way of a pump so you aren't as protected as you are when you are doing higher reps. Today I aimed at 20 reps instead of adding more weight and by the 4th set my reps were down to 12. That is fine. I really have to follow my method to the T. The trouble is I start getting doubts when my growth slows or stops. Part of the reason was I wasn't using the best apparatus to train on. My gym has my biceps-supinator and I love training on it. Of course, it is easier to use the Nautilus Biceps machine which is adjacent to the lying triceps machines. Those lying triceps machines are superior to the modified Nautilus Triceps lying version.
I will see if 19 inch arms are possible for me. Yes, I am still carrying more fat than I thought I was. I look okay in the mirror but not so good in photos. Reducing the fat will be attempted after I have achieved the size goals.
At your age, you probably should consume around 1400-1600 calories max to get ripped. You will also live a lot longer if you do this now.
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What a sad collection of misfits and know-it-alls we see here. Maximum hypertrophy training can be dangerous for older men with decades of experience. Few of us can do heavy bench presses because of soreness in the shoulders. Sore elbows add to the weak links in the body.
I exceeded my previous maximum arm size last month. Imagine how good that made me feel. I already mentioned that my elbows were tender from soreness through doing very heavy pullovers way back in 1965. My elbows were sore for about 6 months and have been tender ever since. I have been careful this time but exceptional size requires an exceptional effort. I will resume training but proceed slower re adding resistance.
I have proven once again that significant growth is possible at my age so my experiment has been a success. The flotsam is too dense to appreciate my accomplishment.
Vince, remember your claim was that age was no hindrance to hypertrophy. In fact, you claim it was an advantage. One of the reasons you cannot, and will not, achieve your previous 1970 era condition is that your body is too old to endure, let alone respond, to the type of training necessary.
And what significant "muscular" growth have your achieve? The arm that you displayed on this thread shows no evidence that it has ever done a any type of training at all. By that I mean if you were walking out and about in a tank top no one in the general public, let alone experience weight trainers, would single you out as someone who lifts weights.
Your claim was that you can achieve, actually exceed, your 1970s condition. I made it a point that this was made very clear. As far as I can tell, judging but what few pictures you have posted, there has been no noticeable change in your physique.
Prove me wrong. I sincerely want you to. You can fool yourself but you can't fool the flotsam at GetBig.
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Pellius, I sense you are trying to avoid buying me dinner when I show up in Hawaii. Yes, while I am carrying some fat it hides the muscle that is there. However, my arms are rock hard and amaze one and all who inspect them. So rest assured that the Flotsam are unable to appreciate the gains that I am making and will belittle my progress. You are made of fairer stuff so I expect you to be fair dinkum.
I have proven to myself that I can grow rapidly at 69 years old. The motivation is there to show the flotsam and I will demonstrate an improvement that will bring tears to Goodrum's eyes. That much is certain. I am not a wannabe but an experienced guy who has been around a long time. Why people question me yet follow gh15 is the stuff of total insanity. I offer a natural way to get big but no one is interested. I would never have believed this would be possible to enlightened individuals. The trouble is many like yourself have gone to the dark side and what a shame that is. I can save myself but no one else. Look upon my works ye mortals, and despair!
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Even Ironage Forum give Vince a hard time. I will give Vince one thing he did tell them that he did not want to be in their clique...good thing because they are a bunch of dribbling old farts. I mean how the fuck can a Bible Bashing raving sex pest like Mike Payne be a Mod ? Another joke is Deanna Panting.. she writes all the time about her "Football...Ice Hockey Star Son". The first time i saw his picture i laughed because he is fat as fuck and has red hair. So at least Vince fucked them off and has a bit of sense. Regards to your experiment Vincent, it stands to reason that at your age you will NEVER lose fat unless you eat nothing or do cardio and diet. At your stage in life i would just do 30 mins daily on a good rowing machine and that is it. You will be fitter and lose weight and maybe live longer...leave the big arms to the young guys OK.
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Pellius, I sense you are trying to avoid buying me dinner when I show up in Hawaii. Yes, while I am carrying some fat it hides the muscle that is there. However, my arms are rock hard and amaze one and all who inspect them. So rest assured that the Flotsam are unable to appreciate the gains that I am making and will belittle my progress. You are made of fairer stuff so I expect you to be fair dinkum.
I have proven to myself that I can grow rapidly at 69 years old. The motivation is there to show the flotsam and I will demonstrate an improvement that will bring tears to Goodrum's eyes. That much is certain. I am not a wannabe but an experienced guy who has been around a long time. Why people question me yet follow gh15 is the stuff of total insanity. I offer a natural way to get big but no one is interested. I would never have believed this would be possible to enlightened individuals. The trouble is many like yourself have gone to the dark side and what a shame that is. I can save myself but no one else. Look upon my works ye mortals, and despair!
It would be a pleasure to buy you dinner win or lose. You represent an era that many of us futilely still yearn for.
I, nor any of us here, can feel your arms. None of us can verify the progression you have achieved in your training. All we can do is go by the pictures that you have posted and as much as I wish I could detect noticeable physical improvements I simply cannot. Sure you may have dropped five pounds of fat and put on five pounds of muscle but at your starting condition such progress would not be noticeable. Regardless of what measurements, body fat %, or feats of performance you claim you are certainly not even remotely close to the 1970s era conditioning you claim to be able to achieve.
We don't listen to you because what you claim does not comport with reality. None of your theories have ever been proven or demonstrated. That's what you are trying to do now. We listen to gh15 because his methods will improve any physique every time. Every single time. Results will vary but results are guaranteed. Sure you might not approve of his methods but many are far more concerned with real world results than any vague moral or personal convictions on how those results are achieved.
If we could go back in time to earlier last year when you started this experiment and you did the exact same thing except this time you added 6iu/day of HGH, 500mg/wk testosterone enanthate, 500mg/day of nandrolone and maybe one dball a day for old times sake have you any doubt that you would have progress far, far more that you have thus far?
gh15 methods is 100% guaranteed. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. Vince DOMS theory is still unproven. Not everyone has the time or desire to balonie around with unproven theories. Some are more concerned with real proven results.
I anxiously await your results and sincerely wish what you say were true.
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Pellius, I will not submit to the chemical gurus and all the nonsense that they suggest. The chemical path is unproven and certain folly for longevity and health. There are no studies supporting the chemical protocols that you are suggesting and you should hang your head in shame that you were recruited by the evil forces in bodybuilding.
We have the shotgun approach of the chemical cavaliers. No thanks to any of that crap. I have a mission that is far more important and infinitely more noble. We have to save our youth from the dangerous shortcuts proposed by gh15 and others who have no sense or shame. There is a better way to muscle size and I have outlined it on this forum. Why others do not subscribe to it indicates how brainwashed they are. Not one individual here has the capacity to assess my theory and apply it to natural bodybuilding. A few that might be capable are completely brainwashed so fail to see the sense that I have outlined. Nothing short of a complete overhaul of concepts, ideas, theories and methods will save our sport. It is contaminated almost beyond any capacity to be rescued. I plod onward because I have a strange destiny and march to the beat of my own drum. What seems clear and logical to me completely escapes even the above average on the forum. That really is surprising. Then again, I have learned that even university people are mistaken about hypertrophy and have also failed to see the truth that should be obvious once pointed in the right direction. It is almost comical that so many are blind.
I hope to be in Hawaii sometime this year after I visit Canada in the summer over there.
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Vince pls post some new pics.
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Anybody that just trains arms is training for nothing.
Do the whole body over at least 4 days,eat cleaner,do cardio,live longer, look better.
Tons of guys are lean with muscle and all natural at an advanced age....it`s called bodybuilding,not arm building.
Talk about ridiculous training methods.....GEEZUS!! :(
Oh well,at least you are training once again so I guess it`s better than nothing................k ind of!!
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Pellius, I sense you are trying to avoid buying me dinner when I show up in Hawaii. Yes, while I am carrying some fat it hides the muscle that is there. However, my arms are rock hard and amaze one and all who inspect them. So rest assured that the Flotsam are unable to appreciate the gains that I am making and will belittle my progress. You are made of fairer stuff so I expect you to be fair dinkum.
I have proven to myself that I can grow rapidly at 69 years old. The motivation is there to show the flotsam and I will demonstrate an improvement that will bring tears to Goodrum's eyes. That much is certain. I am not a wannabe but an experienced guy who has been around a long time. Why people question me yet follow gh15 is the stuff of total insanity. I offer a natural way to get big but no one is interested. I would never have believed this would be possible to enlightened individuals. The trouble is many like yourself have gone to the dark side and what a shame that is. I can save myself but no one else. Look upon my works ye mortals, and despair!
You forgot the following lines of Shelley's Ozymandias, which you quote, Vince. Most apt:
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
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Chimps,waxing poetic and shit! ;D
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Anybody that just trains arms is training for nothing.
Do the whole body over at least 4 days,eat cleaner,do cardio,live longer, look better.
Tons of guys are lean with muscle and all natural at an advanced age....it`s called bodybuilding,not arm building.
Talk about ridiculous training methods.....GEEZUS!! :(
Oh well,at least you are training once again so I guess it`s better than nothing................k ind of!!
100% spot on Wes !
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It is almost embarrassing interacting with the flotsam. Knuckleheads populate this forum and delight in supporting each other's shortcomings. I venture forth convinced by decades experimenting and analyzing the requirements for maximum hypertrophy. My generous nature compels me to share my theories with others but instead of comprehending my ideas the self-styled experts reject them wholesale. I gain no purchase in the shallow closed minds of the wannabe muscle heads. The din generated by the collective nobodies is thunderous. Why on earth I bother is a mystery. You guys wouldn't recognize the truth if it hit you in the face.
I am training arms to demonstrate that the principles are right. This has been established more than once.
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Ok Vince, I did an "experiment" rather similar to yours this past spring/summer and here are a few things that I "discovered"
1. Muscle growth is localized, as I did just train arms for awhile (without any torso work) and my arms did increase in size a bit, but my torso didn't change
2. Once you lose a good amount of fat and water, you will lose a good amount of arm size as well. For example, at my recent biggest/fattest I had a 38 inch waist and my arms were just a tad over 16 inch arms, and then when I finally did get myself fairly lean my waist was down to 29.5 inches, but my arms shrunk down to 14.25 inches :'( :'( :'(
(again, those were my own personal experiences)
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Imbasile
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It is almost embarrassing interacting with the flotsam. Knuckleheads populate this forum and delight in supporting each other's shortcomings. I venture forth convinced by decades experimenting and analyzing the requirements for maximum hypertrophy. My generous nature compels me to share my theories with others but instead of comprehending my ideas the self-styled experts reject them wholesale. I gain no purchase in the shallow closed minds of the wannabe muscle heads. The din generated by the collective nobodies is thunderous. Why on earth I bother is a mystery. You guys wouldn't recognize the truth if it hit you in the face.
I am training arms to demonstrate that the principles are right. This has been established more than once.
What a self-righteous windbag. Friends and family must shudder to see your name on their call display.
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It is almost embarrassing interacting with the flotsam. Knuckleheads populate this forum and delight in supporting each other's shortcomings. I venture forth convinced by decades experimenting and analyzing the requirements for maximum hypertrophy. My generous nature compels me to share my theories with others but instead of comprehending my ideas the self-styled experts reject them wholesale. I gain no purchase in the shallow closed minds of the wannabe muscle heads. The din generated by the collective nobodies is thunderous. Why on earth I bother is a mystery. You guys wouldn't recognize the truth if it hit you in the face.
I am training arms to demonstrate that the principles are right. This has been established more than once.
Thanks for sharing Vince!! ;D
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Imbasile
lol
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where's vince
Times have changed... In the gym on any given day there are guys who are much better developed than the 3 in that picture... in fact, if those 3 were to appear in any gym today, they would go unnoticed. Not saying they weren't in shape for their time, just that times have changed..
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If you put Vince Spazall in a retirement home, he would look like he belonged ther, but would not standout.
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Ok Vince, I did an "experiment" rather similar to yours this past spring/summer and here are a few things that I "discovered"
1. Muscle growth is localized, as I did just train arms for awhile (without any torso work) and my arms did increase in size a bit, but my torso didn't change
2. Once you lose a good amount of fat and water, you will lose a good amount of arm size as well. For example, at my recent biggest/fattest I had a 38 inch waist and my arms were just a tad over 16 inch arms, and then when I finally did get myself fairly lean my waist was down to 29.5 inches, but my arms shrunk down to 14.25 inches :'( :'( :'(
(again, those were my own personal experiences)
I'm a 34' waist at the moment with arms touching 16 inch. I really don't want to go any lower in body fat as the same would happen to me. Everything gets smaller. It's a bitch. Perhaps I'll give Vince's theory a try. ;D
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Another bullshit cop-out from this old fart.
Pushing 70 and too stupid to modify training poundage's ( 8 plates on lying triceps extensions . . . four 5's a side maybe.) Pushing 70 and too dumb to do cardio and wonders why he is not losing fat. Pushing 70 and training arms every day . . . all this an no pics.
This chump has been a pain in the ass from day one with his BS, starting with pics of his grip strength over on ironage years ago.
Put up or shut up, pops.
THE BEEF
LOL, you're a funny kunt!!! He is a retard alright, that's for sure
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LOL, you're a funny kunt!!! He is a retard alright, that's for sure
Big IrishDave, THE BEEF likes your style.
THE BEEF
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At your age, you probably should consume around 1400-1600 calories max to get ripped. You will also live a lot longer if you do this now.
Agreed.
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LOL at the flotsam trying to get revenge because I hurt their feelings.
When I say 8 plates I mean the 5kg plates on most of my machines that I made. I went metric. 5kg = 11 pounds. The 8 plates included the top bearing housings and the center pin so the that would weigh about 100 pounds all up. The most I have used in that movement was 9 plates. It is a very strict movement because there are adjustable side pads to keep your arms from going outwards.
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LOL at the flotsam trying to get revenge because I hurt their feelings.
When I say 8 plates I mean the 5kg plates on most of my machines that I made. I went metric. 5kg = 11 pounds. The 8 plates included the top bearing housings and the center pin so the that would weigh about 100 pounds all up. The most I have used in that movement was 9 plates. It is a very strict movement because there are adjustable side pads to keep your arms from going outwards.
90 pounds!!!!!!!!! my God, you're a 1952 Mr. Canada winning animal!!
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Lol@ trying to "pack on the mass" at 70 years old :D
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Lol@ trying to "pack on the mass" at 70 years old :D
lol.
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LOL at the flotsam trying to get revenge because I hurt their feelings.
When I say 8 plates I mean the 5kg plates on most of my machines that I made. I went metric. 5kg = 11 pounds. The 8 plates included the top bearing housings and the center pin so the that would weigh about 100 pounds all up. The most I have used in that movement was 9 plates. It is a very strict movement because there are adjustable side pads to keep your arms from going outwards.
^The reason you got hurt!^
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some synthol in there will get you all the honeyz!!
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I'm a 34' waist at the moment with arms touching 16 inch. I really don't want to go any lower in body fat as the same would happen to me. Everything gets smaller. It's a bitch. Perhaps I'll give Vince's theory a try. ;D
did your dick get smaller as well? :)
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Pellius, I will not submit to the chemical gurus and all the nonsense that they suggest. The chemical path is unproven and certain folly for longevity and health. There are no studies supporting the chemical protocols that you are suggesting and you should hang your head in shame that you were recruited by the evil forces in bodybuilding.
We have the shotgun approach of the chemical cavaliers. No thanks to any of that crap. I have a mission that is far more important and infinitely more noble. We have to save our youth from the dangerous shortcuts proposed by gh15 and others who have no sense or shame. There is a better way to muscle size and I have outlined it on this forum. Why others do not subscribe to it indicates how brainwashed they are. Not one individual here has the capacity to assess my theory and apply it to natural bodybuilding. A few that might be capable are completely brainwashed so fail to see the sense that I have outlined. Nothing short of a complete overhaul of concepts, ideas, theories and methods will save our sport. It is contaminated almost beyond any capacity to be rescued. I plod onward because I have a strange destiny and march to the beat of my own drum. What seems clear and logical to me completely escapes even the above average on the forum. That really is surprising. Then again, I have learned that even university people are mistaken about hypertrophy and have also failed to see the truth that should be obvious once pointed in the right direction. It is almost comical that so many are blind.
I hope to be in Hawaii sometime this year after I visit Canada in the summer over there.
"The chemical path is unproven and certain folly for longevity and health. There are no studies supporting the chemical protocols that you are suggesting and you should hang your head in shame that you were recruited by the evil forces in bodybuilding."
Wow! Just wow!
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What a self-righteous windbag. Friends and family must shudder to see your name on their call display.
Now that was funny!
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It is almost embarrassing interacting with the flotsam. Knuckleheads populate this forum and delight in supporting each other's shortcomings. I venture forth convinced by decades experimenting and analyzing the requirements for maximum hypertrophy. My generous nature compels me to share my theories with others but instead of comprehending my ideas the self-styled experts reject them wholesale. I gain no purchase in the shallow closed minds of the wannabe muscle heads. The din generated by the collective nobodies is thunderous. Why on earth I bother is a mystery. You guys wouldn't recognize the truth if it hit you in the face.
I am training arms to demonstrate that the principles are right. This has been established more than once.
embarrassing as it is you are still desperately seeking the validation of the "flotsam"
what does that say about you
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Lots of brutal truths in this thread.
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embarrassing as it is you are still desperately seeking the validation of the "flotsam"
what does that say about you
ROFL, BINGO!!!!
And again Vince is wrong, 5 kg's = 11.0231131 lbs ::)
THE BEEF
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At your age, you probably should consume around 1400-1600 calories max to get ripped. You will also live a lot longer if you do this now.
If this is true, then THE BEEF suggests Vince eats twice this recommended amount which will free the flotsam in half the time.
THE BEEF
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Seeing as how this thread is about bodybuilding in the later years,heres a pic from this week of 65 year old UK bodybuilder Bernie Cooper,now thats inspiration. :(
Vince once told Frank Zane that he was better then him. Now, here's Bernie only 3 1/3 years younger then Vince . . . does this mean Bernie would have been the best built man in history?
THE BEEF
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FLOTSAM
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FLOTSAM
Is Vince the most experienced bb'er on getbig??
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He is also the 2nd best arm wrestler around.
THE BEEF
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Vince once told Frank Zane that he was better then him. Now, here's Bernie only 3 1/3 years younger then Vince . . . does this mean Bernie would have been the best built man in history?
THE BEEF
Admirable build on Bernie. The hairstyle is a little "out there" to me. Still, as you say, he's an inspiration to those of us trying to stay fit as we get older.
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Vince is a thinker, which I suppose most people dislike because he questions training "truths" that we have been brainwashed into believing since we got started in the iron game.
18" arms at any age is impressive, but especially impressive at Vince's age, and in the short amount of time it took to get them. I say give credit where credit is due. Most people in this thread have probably never had arms that big yet are trash talking as if they have.
Just my two cents on the thread.
Speak for yourself and others, not THE BEEF.
A fat 18 inch arm is just that, a fat arm . . . go to McDonalds and A&W you'll see plenty of massive arms. WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING IT WAS EVER 18 inches, JUST MORE BULLSHIT FROM THAT MASTER SELF PROMOTER HIMSELF.
Vince is a dottering old fool, who never was, is not and never will be.
THE BEEF
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Admirable build on Bernie. The hairstyle is a little "out there" to me. Still, as you say, he's an inspiration to those of us trying to stay fit as we get older.
This cat is a freak.
THE BEEF
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This is fascinating. The first time I've heard anything even remotely close is in Arnold's first book where he said they'd go up into the mountains and spend a weekend just squatting. Didn't give any details. The only other time I've heard this is by Vince Basile himself. Speculated on this many times on this board and on others.
Very interesting. Even though this goes against everything I believe vis-a-vis training I might give this a try on my next vacation.
You are shitten THE BEEF, Vince did this ALSO???
Wow.
THE BEEF
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I measured my arms at 14.5 inches this morning.
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This is fascinating. The first time I've heard anything even remotely close is in Arnold's first book where he said they'd go up into the mountains and spend a weekend just squatting. Didn't give any details. The only other time I've heard this is by Vince Basile himself. Speculated on this many times on this board and on others.
Very interesting. Even though this goes against everything I believe vis-a-vis training I might give this a try on my next vacation.
You are shitten THE BEEF, Vince did this ALSO???
Wow.
THE BEEF
haha wtf what bullshit ::)
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I just Googled the words "Vince Basile" and the words "How fat do you want the women to be this time" came up...WTF!!!
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I just Googled the words "Vince Basile" and the words "How fat do you want the women to be this time" came up...WTF!!!
;D
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I measured my arms at 14.5 inches this morning.
Mine measured in at 14.66 inches this morning, so I got ya beat man ;D
You still running, or are you "bodybuilding" now? At one point in time I was running, "bodybuilding", doning bench press comps, and trying to do some fitness modelling on the side, needless to say, the fitness modelling thing didn't pan out too well lol
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I don't recall what you look like, but if you have an 18" arm, go ahead and post a clear pic of it.
They dump on Ronnie, Jay, Kai, only a fool looking for self promotion is foolish enough to post pics on the Internet . . . And THE BEEF is no fool. If you're looking for images to rub one out over, THE BEEF ain't helping you there.
THE BEEF
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haha wtf what bullshit ::)
What bullshit are you referring to io856?
THE BEEF
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Vince is a thinker, which I suppose most people dislike because he questions training "truths" that we have been brainwashed into believing since we got started in the iron game.
18" arms at any age is impressive, but especially impressive at Vince's age, and in the short amount of time it took to get them. I say give credit where credit is due. Most people in this thread have probably never had arms that big yet are trash talking as if they have.
Just my two cents on the thread.
Measurements in and of itself means nothing. My neighbor is 59 years old, about 5'5" and tapes at just shy of 19 inches. Samoan, about 265 lbs and female.
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This is fascinating. The first time I've heard anything even remotely close is in Arnold's first book where he said they'd go up into the mountains and spend a weekend just squatting. Didn't give any details. The only other time I've heard this is by Vince Basile himself. Speculated on this many times on this board and on others.
Very interesting. Even though this goes against everything I believe vis-a-vis training I might give this a try on my next vacation.
You are shitten THE BEEF, Vince did this ALSO???
Wow.
THE BEEF
lol! No, of course not. Vince just talked about it. "Speculated." He would never actually do this sort of thing. He'd tell you to do it. And keep doing it while you are still sore. But do it himself? lol!
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Vince, respect for you mentoring kids in the gym about training, your life long commitment to training and giving bodybuilding a crack but...
* You will never achieve a better body than you had in 1970.
* Your measurements are influenced by muscle maturity, glycogen levels and the increased adipose fat.
* There is no doubt that if you trained from 1960 to present, at exactly the same body fat level and weight, that you would experience a bell curve in your muscularity and measurements.
You are insane to think you will look better than your 1970 showings or that your lean muscle % will increase compared to that time.
I am 21 and I know this, geez.
You have a 'good build' for a non drug abusing, natural 69 year old but you would look tons better with even minimal amounts of testosterone. Let's leave it at that.
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Listen to all the experts! Here is an updated photo taken yesterday on my ipad.
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Listen to all the experts! Here is an updated photo taken yesterday on my ipad.
All synthol, fat and photoshop ;D
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Listen to all the experts! Here is an updated photo taken yesterday on my ipad.
You're jesting right? Or are you actually delusional? And I ask as a admirer and someone that respects 'old bodybuilding' and those that came before. You think we cannot see that's taken on the ipad with the 'warp' feature?
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Give me a break. Vince's arms are solid. Not ripped, but in no way is the comparison you made valid. If he dieted down they might be 17" ripped...which for a ripped arm...is still very impressive.
What do your arms measure when cold, Pelius?
I'd give him 15inch ripped arms
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Give me a break. Vince's arms are solid. Not ripped, but in no way is the comparison you made valid. If he dieted down they might be 17" ripped...which for a ripped arm...is still very impressive.
What do your arms measure when cold, Pelius?
You said 18 inches is impressive at any age. No mention of a "solid" 18 inches. Just 18 inches. I took that literally and contend that measurements in and of itself don't tell the whole story. I don't know how solid Vince's arm is but it is a fat arm. An unconditioned arm There is nothing about it that even hints at someone who trains.
My arm measures just under 15.5 inches.
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pellius ownage
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You said 18 inches is impressive at any age. No mention of a "solid" 18 inches. Just 18 inches. I took that literally and contend that measurements in and of itself don't tell the whole story. I don't know how solid Vince's arm is but it is a fat arm. An unconditioned arm There is nothing about it that even hints at someone who trains.
My arm measures just under 15.5 inches.
pellius don't need no stinkin' fun-house mirror effects.
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can we see the original pic vince?
Listen to all the experts! Here is an updated photo taken yesterday on my ipad.
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can we see the original pic vince?
does it matter? "condition" is what the subject now is. if anything, the idiot or "Imbasile" has just helped us see clearer by blowing up his arm in the ipad warp feature and shown everyone that STILL! he is talking about an "18 inch arm" in THAT! condition!
Fucken LOL!
"achievement" ::)
diet down to his 1970's condition and there is a solid 14 inches of actual M-U-S-C-L-E under there.
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does it matter? "condition" is what the subject now is. if anything, the idiot or "Imbasile" has just helped us see clearer by blowing up his arm in the ipad warp feature and shown everyone that STILL! he is talking about an "18 inch arm" in THAT! condition!
Fucken LOL!
"achievement" ::
He showed a nice Double chin.
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what a fucking loser
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Listen to all the experts! Here is an updated photo taken yesterday on my ipad.
Wow, that arm is looking mighty big! Of course the proportions are way off and there is no definition....but do you really care? ;D
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Vince guns are beyond muscular - hypertrophied fabric of an olympian.
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I didn't realize I had to be so specific with every statement. I assumed "solid" would be implied. Just like when you said your arms measure 15 inches you assumed "cold" would be applied and not pumped up by 2 inches from an arm workout. You took the extreme of what I said to try to dodge my point.
Your arms are lean, but 15 inch arms are just that...15 inch arms.
Yes, you did have to be specific. Measurement in and of itself means nothing. I didn't assumed "solid" because Vince's arm does not appear "solid" in any way, shape, or form. It simply has the look of an average older man. Having said that I do support him and truly and genuinely wish him the best. Nothing would give me greater satisfaction then for all the naysayers to have egg on their face. But my experience in the real world tells me that he will fail miserably.
And, true, my arms are 15 inches. It's just that... 15 inches. And at just under 6'2" I barely tip the scale at 189 lbs. Those are the crosses I bear in life. Only through faith, prayer and a touch of delusional optimism am I able to endure life. But at nearly 52 years of age I find a bit of perverse comfort knowing that I am not long for this world.
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ahahaha alot of funny fuckers in this thread ;D btw pellius you look great for your age :)
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And, true, my arms are 15 inches. It's just that... 15 inches. And at just under 6'2" I barely tip the scale at 189 lbs. Those are the crosses I bear in life. Only through faith, prayer and a touch of delusional optimism am I able to endure life. But at nearly 52 years of age I find a bit of perverse comfort knowing that I am not long for this world.
What do you mean you are not long for this world? Hope all is good Pellius. You carry yourself with a grandfather like swag around here that would be missed :(
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What do you mean you are not long for this world? Hope all is good Pellius. You carry yourself with a grandfather like swag around here that would be missed :(
Despite copious intake of fish oil, reveratrol and green tea, as well as daily practice of Falun Gong, I believe I only have about 28 years left on this planet and then it's "So long and thanks for all the fish."
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Despite copious intake of fish oil, reveratrol and green tea, as well as daily practice of Falun Gong, I believe I only have about 28 years left on this planet and then it's "So long and thanks for all the fish."
It isn't the lifespan but the quality of a life. You seem to be a happy and well centered person.
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Pellius you look sick man. Very awesome especially for your age! Props!
You look way better than me I'm half your age.
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It isn't the lifespan but the quality of a life. You seem to be a happy and well centered person.
I'm bitter, consume with hate, and despise mankind. I spend all of my free time sitting in my hovel naked except for the red face paint that I wear typing on GetBig or writing rambling anti-government manifestos aka Ted Kaczynski.
Some day they will pay. I will make them all pay.
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Despite copious intake of fish oil, reveratrol and green tea, as well as daily practice of Falun Gong, I believe I only have about 28 years left on this planet and then it's "So long and thanks for all the fish."
Yeah, for healthy people 80 is the new 70. I was thinking I would be happy to make it to 80 years of age myself. However, what's to say we won't keep going after that? At this point, I have no health issues which threaten my life and I am almost 70. Of course when I was 30 or 40 or even 50 years old, I still believed 70 was ancient. Now I am thinking 80 is really old. But, how will I feel if I make it to 80 and I am still healthy and hitting the gym several times a week? I think it is all relative.
Currently, I am trying to wrap my head around the idea of slimming down some. This is a huge change from all those years of trying to get big and not really being very successful at it. I can still hoist a fair amount of weight, but when I hear about other old folks injuring themselves, I wonder if the heavy lifting is so smart. It is interesting to me that since deciding to lose weight, my weight has stayed more constant. All those years I was trying to add weight, if I skipped just one meal, I felt like I was losing weight and often I did. This morning, I weighed 205.5 and I didn't eat much yesterday.
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Pellius you look sick man. Very awesome especially for your age! Props!
You look way better than me I'm half your age.
But, alas, a mere 15 inch arm. I battle thoughts of suicide constantly.
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I'm bitter, consume with hate, and despise mankind. I spend all of my free time sitting in my hovel naked except for the red face paint that I wear typing on GetBig or writing rambling anti-government manifestos aka Ted Kaczynski.
Some day they will pay. I will make them all pay.
Not only that, you are pretty humorous too. Humour is the stuff of life.
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But, alas, a mere 15 inch arm. I battle thoughts of suicide constantly.
Who cares how big your arms are. You have an oustanding build. Cheers man.
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I'm bitter, consume with hate, and despise mankind. I spend all of my free time sitting in my hovel naked except for the red face paint that I wear typing on GetBig or writing rambling anti-government manifestos aka Ted Kaczynski.
Some day they will pay. I will make them all pay.
That's an entirely better life than the one Derek Anthony is living.
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I'm bitter, consume with hate, and despise mankind. I spend all of my free time sitting in my hovel naked except for the red face paint that I wear typing on GetBig or writing rambling anti-government manifestos aka Ted Kaczynski.
Some day they will pay. I will make them all pay.
Do you put on the face paint specifically to post on Getbig (e.g. War Paint)?
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That's an entirely better life than the one Derek Anthony is living.
True. I am thankful for some things.
There for the grace of God....
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Do you put on the face paint specifically to post on Getbig (e.g. War Paint)?
and with a glittering thong I am ready to do battle.
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Pellius has been bitter since he got raided and the authorities took his precious gun collection. It is better that bitter people don't have guns. One of the things I don't like about America....too many guns.
Anyway, Pellius, don't contaminate my thread with photos of your lean self. That impresses the flotsam but not myself. When I come to Hawaii I will show you how to train, however, you practice so many weird things that you really are beyond saving. I could easily get your arms up but how in the heck can I do a philosophical cleansing of all the crap viruses that fester in your brain? I wonder how it is possible for anyone remotely intelligent to harbour all that nonsense.
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Who cares how big your arms are. You have an oustanding build. Cheers man.
And still wrecking twenty something poon (as long as they don't know I'm older than their daddy).
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Pellius has been bitter since he got raided and the authorities took his precious gun collection. It is better that bitter people don't have guns. One of the things I don't like about America....too many guns.
Anyway, Pellius, don't contaminate my thread with photos of your lean self. That impresses the flotsam but not myself. When I come to Hawaii I will show you how to train, however, you practice so many weird things that you really are beyond saving. I could easily get your arms up but how in the heck can I do a philosophical cleansing of all the crap viruses that fester in your brain? I wonder how it is possible for anyone remotely intelligent to harbour all that nonsense.
Try as you might but I'm still reading love and caring between those harsh lines.
You can't just show me how to train you have to actually train like how you show. None of this back bench coaching. I'll do whatever you do in the gym.
And come on, Vince. You know me, I'm all about the flotsam.
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Try as you might but I'm still reading love and caring between those harsh lines.
You can't just show me how to train you have to actually train like how you show. None of this back bench coaching. I'll do whatever you do in the gym.
And come on, Vince. You know me, I'm all about the flotsam.
BTW, my arsenal has been returned and added to. My best friend, my only friend really, my Glock 19 is always by my side.
And with the immortal words of the dearly departed zyzz:
"Come at me, bro!"
.
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Pellius has been bitter since he got raided and the authorities took his precious gun collection. It is better that bitter people don't have guns. One of the things I don't like about America....too many guns.
Anyway, Pellius, don't contaminate my thread with photos of your lean self. That impresses the flotsam but not myself. When I come to Hawaii I will show you how to train, however, you practice so many weird things that you really are beyond saving. I could easily get your arms up but how in the heck can I do a philosophical cleansing of all the crap viruses that fester in your brain? I wonder how it is possible for anyone remotely intelligent to harbour all that nonsense.
Vince you couldn't put inches on a blank ruler.
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Vince you couldn't put inches on a blank ruler.
I'm stealing that line and claiming it as my own.
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I'm stealing that line and claiming it as my own.
Isn't the grandfather meant to the give back to the youth? ;D
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Isn't the grandfather meant to the give back to the youth? ;D
OUCH!!!!
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Vince you couldn't put inches on a blank ruler.
lol
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Pellius your shoulders are looking bigger. Are you following the Gh15 protocol of pinning in the shoulders with GH?
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Haha Marshdog is an early leading candidate for Getbigger of the Year 2012.
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Pellius your shoulders are looking bigger. Are you following the Gh15 protocol of pinning in the shoulders with GH?
I've been doing hrt for over ten years and always pinned the shoulders. I think it does make a difference because there is always some minor swelling lasting about a day. Do this every week for over a decade and I think it will cause, not necessarily muscle growth, but some sort of "volumization." My shoulders stick out (though not when wearing a shirt) but it's also my weakest (strength wise) body part do to so many injuries.
On that side "oh so sexy" shot that I did with Vince in mind (no homo) you can see some inflammation on my delt. I pinned the day before. No pain. Just a full tight effect.
I started gh back in Feb and mostly do subq around the waist. Easier and no pain.
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OUCH!!!!
hahaha only playin'
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Pellius, I fear no man....women are a different matter! It is good to see you have had your property returned. Since you are taking all manner of substances you should be able to grow some muscle. I recommend desisting from grappling with blokes because that causes injuries and wastes energy. If you want to be able to get your arms larger and perhaps get more self-respect then you have to do exactly what I say. The formula is set and there should be no deviation. You use my brain, ideas, theories and experience and do not even interject with suggestions. That is the deal.
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Pellius has been bitter since he got raided and the authorities took his precious gun collection. It is better that bitter people don't have guns. One of the things I don't like about America....too many guns.
Anyway, Pellius, don't contaminate my thread with photos of your lean self. That impresses the flotsam but not myself. When I come to Hawaii I will show you how to train, however, you practice so many weird things that you really are beyond saving. I could easily get your arms up but how in the heck can I do a philosophical cleansing of all the crap viruses that fester in your brain? I wonder how it is possible for anyone remotely intelligent to harbour all that nonsense.
Guess I am one of the flotsam then, because Pellius looks much more fit to me than you do. But then, you probably couldn't have his build even if you wanted to have it, which I am guessing you don't.
The gym where I work out is filled with fellows our age who are more fat than muscular, like you. Sure they have big arms, but one never knows where the muscle is because it is shrouded in fat.
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Look, fellas, this is an experiment, not a $@#*!#% bodybuilding display. The first stage is to get bigger. That is easy up to a point then not so easy because of injuries. Getting rid of fat is also a challenge when over 60. I have never tried to do both at the same time. Guys like Pellius are lean but don't look like bodybuilders. Guys like me are much bigger and have the potential, once cut up, to look like we lifted weights. So stop all this fat nonsense and who looks like they have trained. I am half way there. I probably underestimated how long it would take to reach this goal. Every injury wipes a couple of months off the pursuit. I will be training arms again today. I actually look forward to training now and that hasn't happened since 1998 or so. I have established that DOMS training can be done for several months at a time on a specific muscle. This is good to know. These facts do not register with the know-it-all experts on all these muscle forums. The brains of the flotsam are impervious to new knowledge.
I don't need artificial hormones, vitamins or any other substances. That is what I will demonstrate. The generated hypertrophy will provide sufficient growth hormone for my needs.
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Hey Vince shut up
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Look, fellas, this is an experiment, not a $@#*!#% bodybuilding display. The first stage is to get bigger. That is easy up to a point then not so easy because of injuries. Getting rid of fat is also a challenge when over 60. I have never tried to do both at the same time. Guys like Pellius are lean but don't look like bodybuilders. Guys like me are much bigger and have the potential, once cut up, to look like we lifted weights. So stop all this fat nonsense and who looks like they have trained. I am half way there. I probably underestimated how long it would take to reach this goal. Every injury wipes a couple of months off the pursuit. I will be training arms again today. I actually look forward to training now and that hasn't happened since 1998 or so. I have established that DOMS training can be done for several months at a time on a specific muscle. This is good to know. These facts do not register with the know-it-all experts on all these muscle forums. The brains of the flotsam are impervious to new knowledge.
I don't need artificial hormones, vitamins or any other substances. That is what I will demonstrate. The generated hypertrophy will provide sufficient growth hormone for my needs.
Give it up Vince ,you look like shit and there's nothing you can do about it .
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Hey, Che, at least you are amusing.
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Pellius, I fear no man....women are a different matter! It is good to see you have had your property returned. Since you are taking all manner of substances you should be able to grow some muscle. I recommend desisting from grappling with blokes because that causes injuries and wastes energy. If you want to be able to get your arms larger and perhaps get more self-respect then you have to do exactly what I say. The formula is set and there should be no deviation. You use my brain, ideas, theories and experience and do not even interject with suggestions. That is the deal.
How about this: YOU do exactly as you say and if you get a half way decent physique I'll give it a try.
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Look, fellas, this is an experiment, not a $@#*!#% bodybuilding display. The first stage is to get bigger. That is easy up to a point then not so easy because of injuries. Getting rid of fat is also a challenge when over 60. I have never tried to do both at the same time. Guys like Pellius are lean but don't look like bodybuilders. Guys like me are much bigger and have the potential, once cut up, to look like we lifted weights. So stop all this fat nonsense and who looks like they have trained. I am half way there. I probably underestimated how long it would take to reach this goal. Every injury wipes a couple of months off the pursuit. I will be training arms again today. I actually look forward to training now and that hasn't happened since 1998 or so. I have established that DOMS training can be done for several months at a time on a specific muscle. This is good to know. These facts do not register with the know-it-all experts on all these muscle forums. The brains of the flotsam are impervious to new knowledge.
I don't need artificial hormones, vitamins or any other substances. That is what I will demonstrate. The generated hypertrophy will provide sufficient growth hormone for my needs.
True, if I had more muscle I would look like a bodybuilder. And if you had more muscle and a lot less fat you would also look like a bodybuilder. So, it's actually me that's halfway there.
"Come at me, Bro!"
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Come on, Pellius, I wouldn't let you carry my gym bag if I had one! You have to pay your dues to be considered an equal. Have you benched over 400 pounds, have you won a national bb title? That is why the flotsam get pissed off so easily. They are nobodies going nowhere. So they compensate by knocking guys like me. That stirs me to train harder. In the end, we all have to keep a sense of proportion and bodybuilding is ultimately egotistic adoration. However, if enough guys think it is okay then it is...in this cult. I would rather lift weights than hit little balls in holes on the grass. I mean, wtf is that nonsense? Or wearing protection and bashing the crap out of others and call it football. No thanks. Grappling with other blokes is probably as gay as it gets so I give that pastime a miss as well. Sunbathing and surfing is okay so I do that from time to time and check the shape of the women on the beach. Climbing hills to take photos also is sensible. Just to climb hills is not so smart. There you are.
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judging by your face fat - cheeks and that hanging shit under your chin like a turkey, I have no idea how the hell you will ever "beat you 1970 condition"...ever.
Forget your "titles" or what you benched, as of RIGHT NOW! Pellius is more of a bodybuilder than you are displaying. By FAR!
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vince basile after his training experiment
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Come on, Pellius, I wouldn't let you carry my gym bag if I had one! You have to pay your dues to be considered an equal. Have you benched over 400 pounds, have you won a national bb title? That is why the flotsam get pissed off so easily. They are nobodies going nowhere. So they compensate by knocking guys like me. That stirs me to train harder. In the end, we all have to keep a sense of proportion and bodybuilding is ultimately egotistic adoration. However, if enough guys think it is okay then it is...in this cult. I would rather lift weights than hit little balls in holes on the grass. I mean, wtf is that nonsense? Or wearing protection and bashing the crap out of others and call it football. No thanks. Grappling with other blokes is probably as gay as it gets so I give that pastime a miss as well. Sunbathing and surfing is okay so I do that from time to time and check the shape of the women on the beach. Climbing hills to take photos also is sensible. Just to climb hills is not so smart. There you are.
And I wouldn't let you carry my Vale Tudo shorts and TapOut beanie if I had one. And since your surfing days are over at least we can still sun bathed together. Oh Goodie!
And my beloved instructor and one whom I always aspired to be, would have taken serious umbrage at the gay comment.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Rickson_gracie_20080608.jpg/220px-Rickson_gracie_20080608.jpg)
(http://prommanow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/rickson-gracie.jpg)
Nothing gay at all for a man just turning 20 yrs old at the time fighting someone 50 lbs heavier. No gloves, no weight classes, no time limits. Just Vale Tudo ("anything goes").
(http://www.thepaltrysapien.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/rickson-2.jpg)
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judging by your face fat - cheeks and that hanging shit under your chin like a turkey, I have no idea how the hell you will ever "beat you 1970 condition"...ever.
Forget your "titles" or what you benched, as of RIGHT NOW! Pellius is more of a bodybuilder than you are displaying. By FAR!
LOL!
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Pellius, I am not knocking your lifestyle or pastimes. I merely suggest that they interfere with your desire to be an he-man. While you engage others in that combat you get injured and also keep your weight down. Talk about defeating oneself before you start. I clearly am your master and you should show the respect that someone of my stature humbly deserves.
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Pellius, I am not knocking your lifestyle or pastimes. I merely suggest that they interfere with your desire to be an he-man. While you engage others in that combat you get injured and also keep your weight down. Talk about defeating oneself before you start. I clearly am your master and you should show the respect that someone of my stature humbly deserves.
As you know, I'm not a muscle head at heart. I live on this board because it is way more than a bodybuilding board. The people and topics on here are unlike anything on the net. Like all kids growing up I wanted to be strong and have big muscles but by the time I got in my early to mid twenties the passion died. I began to suspect that bodybuilding as a sport was a fraud and corrupt after Franco beat Padilla and Platz in '81. I was on my way out anyway and this was the final push. And beside, big muscles, and I mean competitive bodybuilder type size, has become a joke now to the general public. It's become a weird cult and repulses normal people. I like looking ordinary in clothes and get by on my engaging personality and roguish charm. But it is flattering when I was at the beach a couple of weeks ago for a beach party and when we were heading out to the surf and I casually but sensually peeled of my Ed Hardy T-Shirt to have one of the young americana whores look at me and say, "Damn! I didn't know you were so jacked," and want to feel my arms (albeit a measly 15 inches).
Of course they don't have the trained and seasoned eyes as you do and their standards are much lower but it does give me a brief and always fleeting "yeah, how do you like me now, bitches?" feeling.
So no bulking for me and always glittering thong ready year round.
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So no bulking for me and always glittering thong ready year round.
Remember the time when many bodybuilders were in shape year round? A time when a gain of 10 lbs of muscle in a year was considered a good thing. What did Frank Zane look like in his "off season" condition? Probably not since the difference would be hardly noticeable.
Frank Zane is 5' 9", with an off-season weight of 200 lbs. His contest weight ranged between 185-191 lbs. During competitive times, his arms measured 18", neck 17.5", chest 50", waist 29", thighs 26" and calves 16 1/2".
That's a difference between contest weight and off season weight of from 9 to 15 lbs. This is nothing compared to what today's monster freak bodybuilders gain off season and lose for the stage.
For example, Jay Cutler who is also 5'9" weighs 310 lbs off season, with a contest weight of 274 lbs. That's a difference of 36 lbs. More than twice the on/off weight difference of Zane.
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Being lean looks good on the beach. I accept that. Pellius needs another 20 or 30 pounds to look like a bodybuilder.
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Being lean looks good on the beach. I accept that. Pellius needs another 20 or 30 pounds to look like a bodybuilder.
He looks like a bodybuilder to me. :-\
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Vince. This is ridiculous. You didn't gain muscular size you got fatter thus making your arm bigger.
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He looks like a bodybuilder to me. :-\
And you look like one hot piece of A to me (with all due respect, of course).
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lmao at vince continuing to "believe"
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Vince, you must be the oldest troll on the internet
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Look, fellas, this is an experiment, not a $@#*!#% bodybuilding display. The first stage is to get bigger. That is easy up to a point then not so easy because of injuries. Getting rid of fat is also a challenge when over 60. I have never tried to do both at the same time. Guys like Pellius are lean but don't look like bodybuilders. Guys like me are much bigger and have the potential, once cut up, to look like we lifted weights. So stop all this fat nonsense and who looks like they have trained. I am half way there. I probably underestimated how long it would take to reach this goal. Every injury wipes a couple of months off the pursuit. I will be training arms again today. I actually look forward to training now and that hasn't happened since 1998 or so. I have established that DOMS training can be done for several months at a time on a specific muscle. This is good to know. These facts do not register with the know-it-all experts on all these muscle forums. The brains of the flotsam are impervious to new knowledge.
I don't need artificial hormones, vitamins or any other substances. That is what I will demonstrate. The generated hypertrophy will provide sufficient growth hormone for my needs.
I already did this Vince, ie. get bigger arms first, and then get lean while keeping the bigger arms. But it doesn't work that way in practice, as my arms shrunk down over an inch on each arm, once I finally lost the excess water and fat.
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Being lean looks good on the beach. I accept that. Pellius needs another 20 or 30 pounds to look like a bodybuilder.
so what do you look like if pellius has copious amounts more muscle than you right now?
you. are. fat.
it is the only reason a tape measure goes around that christmas ham of yours for an arm, 18 inches.
you are getting fatter. not putting on muscle.
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Being lean looks good on the beach. I accept that. Pellius needs another 20 or 30 pounds to look like a bodybuilder.
Frankly, another 20 muscular lbs. wouldn't have hurt your physique in 1970, Vince. And you'll think me crazy for saying so, but if he were to compete against your tip-top condition, you'd lose in a modern bodybuilding contest.
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Pellius' fighting is a billion times cooler than being "bigger" or what ever shit.
Could be somewhat fatter to look healthier, but everybody has different genes.
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Pellius' fighting is a billion times cooler than being "bigger" or what ever shit.
Could be somewhat fatter to look healthier, but everybody has different genes.
Got too agree, better to be "all round fit". What's the point of being massive and breathing out your arse climbing stairs? I go myself for the all round fitness. I think at Vincent's age that would be better. I must say Vincent you take all the abuse with good humour. The combination of weight training and MMA is perfect. I love the feel of weight training and i also love doing ving tsun training. A bit of muscle is always good, got to say Pellius looks in outstanding condition.
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As you know, I'm not a muscle head at heart. I live on this board because it is way more than a bodybuilding board. The people and topics on here are unlike anything on the net. Like all kids growing up I wanted to be strong and have big muscles but by the time I got in my early to mid twenties the passion died. I began to suspect that bodybuilding as a sport was a fraud and corrupt after Franco beat Padilla and Platz in '81. I was on my way out anyway and this was the final push. And beside, big muscles, and I mean competitive bodybuilder type size, has become a joke now to the general public. It's become a weird cult and repulses normal people. I like looking ordinary in clothes and get by on my engaging personality and roguish charm. But it is flattering when I was at the beach a couple of weeks ago for a beach party and when we were heading out to the surf and I casually but sensually peeled of my Ed Hardy T-Shirt to have one of the young americana whores look at me and say, "Damn! I didn't know you were so jacked," and want to feel my arms (albeit a measly 15 inches).
Of course they don't have the trained and seasoned eyes as you do and their standards are much lower but it does give me a brief and always fleeting "yeah, how do you like me now, bitches?" feeling.
So no bulking for me and always glittering thong ready year round.
I'm guessing you're a Dos Equis kinda guy. ;D
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Got too agree, better to be "all round fit". What's the point of being massive and breathing out your arse climbing stairs? I go myself for the all round fitness. I think at Vincent's age that would be better. I must say Vincent you take all the abuse with good humour. The combination of weight training and MMA is perfect. I love the feel of weight training and i also love doing ving tsun training. A bit of muscle is always good, got to say Pellius looks in outstanding condition.
It is a greater challenge to be fit (as in lean) for most folks as we age. The norm is that we add some fat as we get older. Look around, you see a lot more older men and women who are fat than you see lean and fit folks. However, when one spends most of their life trying to get big and muscular, it is hard to change your focus to working out to be lean, cut and fit.
For the most part, unless you are lucky enough to live in a really warm climate and hang out at the beach all the time, you wear clothes. Clothes look better on folks who are lean then they do on larger folks. Face it, most of the huge pro bodybuilders today look like crap in clothes even when they are custom made to their unique physiques.
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If Vince was as smart as he says and thinks he is,he would lose all that excess flab first,then try to gain muscle, or do both at the same time instead of just trying to get bigger.
You are plain old fat, and any size you have is just added to your already fat body, so it`s almost damn near impossible to tell how much is muscle,if any,and how much is just more bodyfat.
Eat clean,train your whole body with moderate weight,less rest between sets,and eat clean food,with plenty of water.
How simple is that,not very simple at all because it takes a lot of consistancy and dedication............. something I think Vince is lacking in bigtime.
Any idiot can work arms and eat like shit, but try training 6 days a week and eating clean..........almost impossible for tons of so called bodybuilders.
Pellius would have easily beaten Vince in 1970 if he looks like he looks today and Vince was in his Mr. Canada condition.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=451638;image)
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Pellius has cuts but his shape and size leaves a lot to be desired. He gets compliments but will never win a bodybuilding title.
I know why so many have resentment. They train but little or nothing happens. Same thing just about all the time. I used to be like that. After years of no gains you worry about losing what you have but have no clue about getting bigger. Oh, the drugs are a possibility but there goes your health and integrity. That is a lot to pay for artificial muscles. Mine have stayed with me over the years but I paid my dues and lifted long and heavy. I guess I would have continued like I was going for the rest of my life. Luckily for me I discovered the secret to bigger muscles about 14 years ago. It wasn't obvious and I must say I was surprised because the very thing that was important was what most of us try to avoid. That darn DOMS soreness. We even introduced members to weight training by avoiding any possible soreness. Just one set per bodypart. It wasn't in the literature and no one had written about DOMS that I was aware of. With so many people training there must have been guys here and there who also figured this out.
If you don't embrace this principle then you will be like the multitudes...the ignorant flotsam. Nothing wrong with being part of the great unwashed but there is no reason to remain in the dark. Guys like Pellius have missed this principle. He still ingests all that protein and whatever for? Old theories and ideas linger because people need to believe in something. So they adopt what everyone else believes. Ah, so predictable. Few are pioneers and fewer are able to do independent thinking so that they can discover new things.
Wes means well. Why he insists I abandon reason and embrace the ideology of knuckleheads is beyond my comprehension. I know what to do. It is a formula. I merely have to apply it in a consistent and safe fashion and voila, larger muscles. Diet isn't as important as many believe. Again, we find unthinking bodybuilders who have done little or no proper study of nutrition. If they did they would be able to save money on food and supplements. You see, you won't know how valuable your beliefs are until you abandon them. You can't abandon what you believe because then what do you have left? So enjoy blasting away and staying the same. No thanks. Can you even imagine my dismay at having to argue with bona fide dimwits when it comes to hypertrophy theory?
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Vince,I do mean well and I think my advice is spot on.....it has worked for thousands and will work for you too and as a result you will look far better overall,not just 'armwise",and be leaner.
As far as your 1970 physique goes,you looked great but you are no bigger than pellius is today and he is far more defined than you were in the contest.
Also,not everyone can get huge or wants to due to genetics, and IMO,you did not get really big at all at your best either.
Not knocking you,as I said you looked great and won a national title,nothing to sneer at, but you at your age should concentrate on getting leaner and not just having bigger shapeless arms.
At any rate,keep pumping,glad you are back at it,your approach is just wrong!!
runs for cover ;D
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Pellius has cuts but his shape and size leaves a lot to be desired. He gets compliments but will never win a bodybuilding title.
I know why so many have resentment. They train but little or nothing happens. Same thing just about all the time. I used to be like that. After years of no gains you worry about losing what you have but have no clue about getting bigger. Oh, the drugs are a possibility but there goes your health and integrity. That is a lot to pay for artificial muscles. Mine have stayed with me over the years but I paid my dues and lifted long and heavy. I guess I would have continued like I was going for the rest of my life. Luckily for me I discovered the secret to bigger muscles about 14 years ago. It wasn't obvious and I must say I was surprised because the very thing that was important was what most of us try to avoid. That darn DOMS soreness. We even introduced members to weight training by avoiding any possible soreness. Just one set per bodypart. It wasn't in the literature and no one had written about DOMS that I was aware of. With so many people training there must have been guys here and there who also figured this out.
If you don't embrace this principle then you will be like the multitudes...the ignorant flotsam. Nothing wrong with being part of the great unwashed but there is no reason to remain in the dark. Guys like Pellius have missed this principle. He still ingests all that protein and whatever for? Old theories and ideas linger because people need to believe in something. So they adopt what everyone else believes. Ah, so predictable. Few are pioneers and fewer are able to do independent thinking so that they can discover new things.
Wes means well. Why he insists I abandon reason and embrace the ideology of knuckleheads is beyond my comprehension. I know what to do. It is a formula. I merely have to apply it in a consistent and safe fashion and voila, larger muscles. Diet isn't as important as many believe. Again, we find unthinking bodybuilders who have done little or no proper study of nutrition. If they did they would be able to save money on food and supplements. You see, you won't know how valuable your beliefs are until you abandon them. You can't abandon what you believe because then what do you have left? So enjoy blasting away and staying the same. No thanks. Can you even imagine my dismay at having to argue with bona fide dimwits when it comes to hypertrophy theory?
Imbasile post proprietary mix:
Condescension: 34%
Pretension: 40%
Delusion: 20%
Poor grammar and syntax: 6%
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Imbasile post proprietary mix:
Condescension: 34%
Pretension: 40%
Delusion: 20%
Poor grammar and syntax: 6%
so I'm assuming the grade would be F?
:D
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Imbasile post proprietary mix:
Condescension: 34%
Pretension: 40%
Delusion: 20%
Poor grammar and syntax: 6%
;D
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vince do you believe you currently have a better physique than pellius
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it seems like vince's advice on nutrition is not completely wrong and close to the truth (about protein being far less important than alot of people think) but I still can't understand what his unique training methods are?
Vince do you think your machines you have built would produce greater results than training progressively and with serious intent with compound movements? (squats, deadlifts, bench, row, chinups etc) Cause time and time again it has been proven by experience that nothing beats good old fashioned barbells and dumbells.
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About specific stimuli for hypertrophy. Do the muscles know if we are using machines or free weights? So as long as the stimulus is sufficient, hypertrophy will follow. The trouble with free weights for triceps is they get dangerous when you lift heavier weights. Elbows get sore and training has to be modified or stopped. The pressdown movements are good up to a point then no further growth happensThis is my experience. I can't say if that applies to everyone. Everyone natural I would say. What I have found is the lying extension machine is superior to anything else I have done. It requires side pads to keep the elbows close to the head. You can't imagine how many cheat even on this excellent exercise. That is human nature because the muscleheads believe they will grow if they use heavier weights. The trick is to put the muscle under severe mechanical tension and you cannot cheat and be effective. Once you start cheating you recruit other muscles and the target muscle misses out on direct tension sufficient to grow.
My biceps supinator is unique in that you can add weight to the supination or twisting movement independent of the curling movement. I would put my machine up against anything else including free weights. If and only if you can get your biceps sore will they grow rapidly. It isn't at all easy to do. Triceps are much easier to get sore.
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do you think soreness is a pre cursor for hypertrophy then? I have read countless times that soreness is NOT an indicator of growth. If that were the case I could build a great chest doing simply dumbell flyes as the stretch always makes me sore the next day. Tricep extentions with a ez curl bar also make my triceps very sore.
However, saying that my biceps are NEVER sore. I honestly have tried everything and they never seem to get sore after. I know they are a muscle group which recovers very quickly but soreness is very very rare in my biceps ???
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The DOMS soreness issue has been debated long and hard on HST forum. Check there to read what happened.
Muscle forum experts feel that DOMS isn't necessary for hypertrophy. My position is very different. If you don't get sore then you won't experience rapid or significant growth.
The trick is to get them quite sore and then keep them sore. Train every 3rd day. Btw, doing just anything won't work. You have to have some notion of sense here and do similar
things to what others are doing in the gym when they train that bodypart. In other words, you need professional style workouts to get really big. I advocate doing about 6 sets with
the maximum resistance for the muscle. Do plenty of high rep warm up sets but all sets taken to the limit. Without a sufficient reason your muscles won't grow. That is cast in concrete.
If you can't get your biceps sore then you have to try something else until you do. If you can get both biceps and triceps sore at the same time you should grow very rapidly. You will be
able to measure your growth on a tape.
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The DOMS soreness issue has been debated long and hard on HST forum. Check there to read what happened.
Muscle forum experts feel that DOMS isn't necessary for hypertrophy. My position is very different. If you don't get sore then you won't experience rapid or significant growth.
The trick is to get them quite sore and then keep them sore. Train every 3rd day. Btw, doing just anything won't work. You have to have some notion of sense here and do similar
things to what others are doing in the gym when they train that bodypart. In other words, you need professional style workouts to get really big. I advocate doing about 6 sets with
the maximum resistance for the muscle. Do plenty of high rep warm up sets but all sets taken to the limit. Without a sufficient reason your muscles won't grow. That is cast in concrete.
If you can't get your biceps sore then you have to try something else until you do. If you can get both biceps and triceps sore at the same time you should grow very rapidly. You will be
able to measure your growth on a tape.
'Now I know what it feels like to be God!'
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Completely ignores my post! ;D
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Soreness does not equal growth.
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Ursus and Chimps have absolutely bugger all to contribute to hypertrophy theory. Zero. Hope this helps.
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Vince are you still fat and injured?
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Vince are you still fat and injured?
ROFL, literally.
THE BEEF
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I am a fine figure of a man for my age. I am healthy as well with no injuries that will impede my growth. Just finished a leg workout. Now that is hard for me to do. I enjoy training arms much more.
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I am a fine figure of a man for my age. I am healthy as well with no injuries that will impede my growth. Just finished a leg workout. Now that is hard for me to do. I enjoy training arms much more.
Your an out of shape flabby old windbag. I have seen many guys older than you who look far better and younger than you, who have never even worked out.
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Vince, I never had any aspirations to enter, let alone win, any bodybuilding title.
Would it be fair to consider you the anti-gh15? The antithesis of what he believes, promotes and stands for?
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Oddly enough, the most sore that my biceps ever got was using a 3 inch fat bar for curling.
These were given out by Hammer Strength years ago, if you purchased a bunch of their equipment.
Mine was given to me by a HIT training legend, and I just got it out of storage a few months ago.
I used it for the first time in about 5 years last week, and my biceps were sore as hell.
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lmao at vince answering questions from his own gimmick
and ignoring anyone who doesnt agree with him
comedy gold
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I am a fine figure of a man for my age.
::)
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yea I still wanna know if he considers his physique better than Pellius and if we can see the original versions of his skewed pics...
lmao at vince answering questions from his own gimmick
and ignoring anyone who doesnt agree with him
comedy gold
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Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURUVince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURUVince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince
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About specific stimuli for hypertrophy. Do the muscles know if we are using machines or free weights? So as long as the stimulus is sufficient, hypertrophy will follow. The trouble with free weights for triceps is they get dangerous when you lift heavier weights. Elbows get sore and training has to be modified or stopped. The pressdown movements are good up to a point then no further growth happensThis is my experience. I can't say if that applies to everyone. Everyone natural I would say. What I have found is the lying extension machine is superior to anything else I have done. It requires side pads to keep the elbows close to the head. You can't imagine how many cheat even on this excellent exercise. That is human nature because the muscleheads believe they will grow if they use heavier weights. The trick is to put the muscle under severe mechanical tension and you cannot cheat and be effective. Once you start cheating you recruit other muscles and the target muscle misses out on direct tension sufficient to grow.
A couple of thoughts:
The Gironda/Scott-style pulley extensions actually don't require side pads to keep the elbows in. As long as you focus intensely on keeping your elbows glued to your head, I think you're good. (That said, I would much prefer your set-up.) And yes, it is an awesome exercise, even if it's a bit awkward to get into position initially. I did a set of 10 plates last week and literally had to fall forward to get set up on the bench.
I also agree with you on the machines vs. free weights thing. A good machine is superior in many respects. Some barbell knuckleheads purists insist that a barbell bench press recruits more muscles than a Hammer Strength press, notably the "stabilizer" muscles.
To this day, I've never seen anyone who actually A, identified these "stabilizers" and B, demonstrated why recruiting them and being forced to balance a bar or dumbbells is somehow a plus in the "this exercise builds bigger pecs" column ::)
Then, you'll get the people who ask complex questions; e.g., "Oh, that's great and all, but if machines built superior mass, how come more bodybuilding champs don't favor them?" A complex question is like asking a man, "Hey, do you still beat your wife?" Yes -- oh, hell. You're a wife-beater. No? Oh, well, you used to beat her, then ;)
Part of the reason more guys don't use them is because they're dumb. Simple as that.
Even the brighter than average watch their heroes toil away with flat bench, squats and deadlifts, so they mimic that.
Then there are the biggest, strongest pros. They tend to use at least some free weights is because there aren't many machines out there that can accommodate their strength. When you're one of those blokes that purportedly inclines 495 for a few reps, that's like 7-8 plates/side on the Hammer Incline. I've yet to see one which can hold more than 5 or maybe 6 plates/side. My model can't hold more than 4 wheels and a 25/side.
Further, in reality, a LOT of guys do largely machine-based training. Have any of you ever watched Vince Taylor or Bob Chick train?
It's funny: those guys are called pussies and such for shying away from free weights, albeit the fact that Chick has benched over 500 in his younger days. But I bet the naysayers never did 20-30 reps per leg with the full stack on the Nautilus Duo-Squat with the seat set all the way forward. Good for the spine? No. But hard-core? Oh ... *LOL*.
My biceps supinator is unique in that you can add weight to the supination or twisting movement independent of the curling movement. I would put my machine up against anything else including free weights. If and only if you can get your biceps sore will they grow rapidly. It isn't at all easy to do. Triceps are much easier to get sore. [/color]
The opposite is actually true for me. My triceps rarely get very sore, but even when they don't, I'll gain strength at a rapid rate. I gave up on regular pressdowns because I was forced to turn to the pulldown station for sufficient resistance.
On the other hand, I can do one work set of a curling movement taken beyond failure and one work set of a hammer-type curl, also taken beyond failure, and my biceps will be sore for many days week after week.
But I do bet your biceps supinator machine is something else. I'd love to try it but the odds of me visiting the land down under are slim :(
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The Nautilus duo squat machine is quite possibly the 2nd best machine I have ever used for building leg mass.
That is the first machine that ever made me throw up after doing a set.
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lmao at vince answering questions from his own gimmick
and ignoring anyone who doesnt agree with him
comedy gold
I have never used a gimmick account on Getbig. Guys that do that lack integrity. Anything I have to say I say it under my own name. Now, that takes guts....something most here lack.
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The Nautilus duo squat machine is quite possibly the 2nd best machine I have ever used for building leg mass.
That is the first machine that ever made me throw up after doing a set.
The compression caused by unmodified Duo Squat machines was a worry so I modified our two machines. The angle is much higher so makes them safer to use. I would modify the cam but it is a big job. It doesn't need to be so heavy at the end of the movement.
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Great machine.
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The lying triceps extension requires side pads. When you use a resistance that lets you do less than 10 reps your elbows tend to move away from your head. Being restricted places much more tension on the triceps on my version. I rate the MedX triceps machine as excellent. However it needs a better grip on the handles so the hands can push against them. It is the only machine I have used that provides more resistance near the completion of the extension.
To stimulate hypertrophy you have to put the target muscle under about 2 minutes of severe tension. You can't easily do that on a pressdown machine. That is why you have to do many, many maximum sets taken to the limit. There is no easy way to achieve this that is also safe.
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Who else here has invented a biceps machine? Or made one? My biceps-supinator is a great machine. The other day I looked long and hard at the pads behind the arms and removed them! There were one auto adjustment and two selectable adjustments for the position of the pads. It appears they aren't necessary! The simpler a machine the better is what I aim at. Now the lads might use this machine more.
Most of the muscleheads stay in the free weight room to train biceps. I almost never use free weights except for squats.
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You have an excellent gym with some great machines. What is your excuse for rarely having trained for the past 40 years? Today you look as though you have never trained Just another fat slob. You need to hire a personal trainer who can whip your sorry ass into shape. Taking up Crossfit would help a lot. Stop worrying about your shapeless weak flabby 16'' arms, and lose about 60 or 70 pounds of blubber. You are a disgrace to all your fellow senior citizens.
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Listen to the flotsam. Have any of you guys ever looked at people who were born in 1942? Most look over the hill. I am still not under it.
By the end of this year I should look good on any beach. Maybe I will get a photo taken on Bondi Beach at Christmas just for the anonymous jetsom on Getbig.
Just carrying a tad too much safety fat at the moment. It is nothing to worry about.
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Just carrying a tad too much safety fat at the moment. It is nothing to worry about.
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Who else here has invented a biceps machine? Or made one? My biceps-supinator is a great machine. The other day I looked long and hard at the pads behind the arms and removed them! There were one auto adjustment and two selectable adjustments for the position of the pads. It appears they aren't necessary! The simpler a machine the better is what I aim at. Now the lads might use this machine more.
Most of the muscleheads stay in the free weight room to train biceps. I almost never use free weights except for squats.
"The simpler a machine the better"????
Your machine looks like Robby the robot....talk about overkill.
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lock up the beach ...
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"The simpler a machine the better"????
Your machine looks like Robby the robot....talk about overkill.
What machine could be simpler than a dumbell? LOL!
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Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURUVince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURUVince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince Basile DBALL GURU Vince
LMAO
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There is no easy way to design an arm machine that provides resistance in two degrees of freedom. A robot is much easier to make. A human has to sit inside this machine to operate it thus requiring external mechanisms that provide resistance for curling and supinating or twisting.
The machine I built was probably the most complicated cable machine ever installed in a gym. It had 9 adjustments for pads, foot rest, arm length, and weights. Now it has only 6.
A dumbbell is simple, indeed, but can't easily provide supination. Well, it could if the handle was offset and more weight was on one side. Might be something worth looking at. At least for dumbbells up to about 50 or 60 pounds. Yes, this would be a simple solution and very effective even for bodybuilders to use. Can't say I have seen any such dumbbells in a gym. Might make a few to see how they work in the gym. There might be a sweet spot where the proportion is 70-30, 60-40, or something similar.
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There is no easy way to design an arm machine that provides resistance in two degrees of freedom. A robot is much easier to make. A human has to sit inside this machine to operate it thus requiring external mechanisms that provide resistance for curling and supinating or twisting.
The machine I built was probably the most complicated cable machine ever installed in a gym. It had 9 adjustments for pads, foot rest, arm length, and weights. Now it has only 6.
A dumbbell is simple, indeed, but can't easily provide supination. Well, it could if the handle was offset and more weight was on one side. Might be something worth looking at. At least for dumbbells up to about 50 or 60 pounds. Yes, this would be a simple solution and very effective even for bodybuilders to use. Can't say I have seen any such dumbbells in a gym. Might make a few to see how they work in the gym. There might be a sweet spot where the proportion is 70-30, 60-40, or something similar.
I want my cut of the profits on the dumbell idea. >:(
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There is no easy way to design an arm machine that provides resistance in two degrees of freedom. A robot is much easier to make. A human has to sit inside this machine to operate it thus requiring external mechanisms that provide resistance for curling and supinating or twisting.
The machine I built was probably the most complicated cable machine ever installed in a gym. It had 9 adjustments for pads, foot rest, arm length, and weights. Now it has only 6.
A dumbbell is simple, indeed, but can't easily provide supination. Well, it could if the handle was offset and more weight was on one side. Might be something worth looking at. At least for dumbbells up to about 50 or 60 pounds. Yes, this would be a simple solution and very effective even for bodybuilders to use. Can't say I have seen any such dumbbells in a gym. Might make a few to see how they work in the gym. There might be a sweet spot where the proportion is 70-30, 60-40, or something similar.
I always had this neat little thing called a WRIST to provide supination...
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Chick, you can twist your wrists but unless the handles are long and you have your hands near one side you aren't going to feel much in the supination movement. Offset dumbbells would give a new meaning to dumbbell curls.
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Your machines look clunky and annoying, especially the bicep one. Why would you design such an awkward looking contraption? It probably works the same as just about every other arm movement.
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Chick, you can twist your wrists but unless the handles are long and you have your hands near one side you aren't going to feel much in the supination movement. Offset dumbbells would give a new meaning to dumbbell curls.
All you have to do is slide your hand to one side of the DB...been doing it for years
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Chick, you can twist your wrists but unless the handles are long and you have your hands near one side you aren't going to feel much in the supination movement. Offset dumbbells would give a new meaning to dumbbell curls.
LOLz. Vince, you're mumbling to an actual someone who made it to the 'pro' ranks. Chickster is the ideal...do you get it!? ;D
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Vince should Arnold have won the 1980 Mr Olympia or was it a fix with the promoter?
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Ronnie Coleman could have been bigger if he trained on Vinces machines using the special hypertrophy protocol of high frequency training to induce a constant state of soreness in the muscle for rapid growth.
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What you will get, Chump, is a punch in the proverbial nose.
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Vince, is there any evidence that your machines provide superior muscle growth? No, there is not.
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Vince should Arnold have won the 1980 Mr Olympia or was it a fix with the promoter?
Vince this is a question never asked before would you like to answer it for all those of us younger than your years.
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What you will get, Chump, is a punch in the proverbial nose.
I hope this isn't directed at chaos ???
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What you will get, Chump, is a punch in the proverbial nose.
I think, over the years, if we've learned anything, it's that Vince's threats of violence mean...nothing.
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Vince should Arnold have won the 1980 Mr Olympia or was it a fix with the promoter?
Both.
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I think, over the years, if we've learned anything, it's that Vince's threats of violence mean...nothing.
The good Doctor is pedantic about grammar and other important matters. He is clueless about building muscle and refrains from debating such issues.
He is more interested in movies and the turn of a phrase. I would rather smash his theories since Toronto is rather too far away.
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Ya know I can totally understand if a guy doesn't give a shit about being 20% bodyfat and just wants to be big and strong but you look as if you've never touched a weight in your life.
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The good Doctor is pedantic about grammar and other important matters. He is clueless about building muscle and refrains from debating such issues.
He is more interested in movies and the turn of a phrase. I would rather smash his theories since Toronto is rather too far away.
What an awful/beautiful sentence. ;D
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"the death chair"
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Another Getbig experiment. Do a search of the members and be amazed at the vast number of names for each letter of the alphabet. Wtf! Gimmick accounts galore for the unwashed, unthinking flotsam.
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You still haven't answered my question. Why do you suggest that your machines are superior?
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Listen to the flotsam. Have any of you guys ever looked at people who were born in 1942? Most look over the hill. I am still not under it.
By the end of this year I should look good on any beach. Maybe I will get a photo taken on Bondi Beach at Christmas just for the anonymous jetsom on Getbig.
Just carrying a tad too much safety fat at the moment. It is nothing to worry about.
-Always good to hear from someone, like you, who has a positive attitude.
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You still haven't answered my question. Why do you suggest that your machines are superior?
I don't have to answer every question. If you have to ask such a question you have a problem. Do you think that after 54 years bodybuilding that I learned nothing at all?
It is called experience. I help some people in my gym and believe me, a lot of guys need help. I told a group of guys about the lying triceps machine when they were doing
a variation of pressdowns using the rope. That exercise was almost useless. Lots of guys do it! Well, they didn't believe me a couple of weeks ago. An instructor showed them how to use my machine and the other night the group leader, who is very experienced, thanked me for suggesting the exercise because it is much better. We can all learn heaps of things about how to train more effectively.
That includes me.
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I don't have to answer every question. If you have to ask such a question you have a problem. Do you think that after 54 years bodybuilding that I learned nothing at all?
It is called experience. I help some people in my gym and believe me, a lot of guys need help. I told a group of guys about the lying triceps machine when they were doing
a variation of pressdowns using the rope. That exercise was almost useless. Lots of guys do it! Well, they didn't believe me a couple of weeks ago. An instructor showed them how to use my machine and the other night the group leader, who is very experienced, thanked me for suggesting the exercise because it is much better. We can all learn heaps of things about how to train more effectively.
That includes me.
All kidding aside, I'm glad to hear you are still wanting to train and have a goal of getting rid of some extra body fat this year. Can't hurt
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Basile, you may have started to workout 54 years ago, but for most of those 54 years you did not train. Now you are old weak and flabby you have begun training again, so far with little or no results. You may own a gym, but you do not train others, and rarely train yourself. Your knowledge of training is that of a rookie. you wasted a lot of time and money with your weird biceps supinator machine. A low pulley machine would be far better to fully train the biceps.
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The compression caused by unmodified Duo Squat machines was a worry so I modified our two machines. The angle is much higher so makes them safer to use. I would modify the cam but it is a big job. It doesn't need to be so heavy at the end of the movement.
Vince, first and foremost, I really like your ideas concerning machines. I would love to own a duo squat, let alone a modified one, as Nautilus went too far when they made the leg press seat for the duo squat, which dealth with the spinal compression issue, but raised the spectre of knee issues with their machine (shearing forces).
Ideally, the duo squat would have an angle similar to yours, but with adjustable shoulder pads, and the back pad would have a lumbar "bump" so to speak to prevent unwanted "tail tucking" while performing one legged squats. But, that would make an already expensive machine even more expensive, and how could one expect the flotsam to buy such a thing?
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BS on all these fucking machines you 'need'. There's no such thing. There's no need to isolated your bicep to within 2 fibers of the main muscle. If anything I can imagine it to be detrimental seeing you're taking secondary stabilizer muscles out of the equation. Where most go wrong is to train with weights that is too heavy, purely to impress the guy next to you who probably wouldn't give you the steam of his piss. Pick your favorite bicep exercise, any will do, take a weight you can handle and try and keep the form of the movement is strict as possible. Works just as well without the need for some gimmick machine.
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BS on all these fucking machines you 'need'. There's no such thing. There's no need to isolated your bicep to within 2 fibers of the main muscle. If anything I can imagine it to be detrimental seeing you're taking secondary stabilizer muscles out of the equation. Where most go wrong is to train with weights that is too heavy, purely to impress the guy next to you who probably wouldn't give you the steam of his piss. Pick your favorite bicep exercise, any will do, take a weight you can handle and try and keep the form of the movement is strict as possible. Works just as well without the need for some gimmick machine.
This statement is pretty much the epitome of total ignorance of most musclemen knuckleheads. Congratulations.
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hey dude- for 67 you look like shit. congrats.
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This statement is pretty much the epitome of total ignorance of most musclemen knuckleheads. Congratulations.
Really? How so?
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lol @ Imbasile giving Bob Chick unsolicited arm training tips and tricks.
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Ya know I can totally understand if a guy doesn't give a shit about being 20% bodyfat and just wants to be big and strong but you look as if you've never touched a weight in your life.
I hope this isn't directed at chaos ???
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I hope this isn't directed at chaos ???
if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.........well..you know the rest :)
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I don't have to answer every question. If you have to ask such a question you have a problem. Do you think that after 54 years bodybuilding that I learned nothing at all?
It is called experience. I help some people in my gym and believe me, a lot of guys need help. I told a group of guys about the lying triceps machine when they were doing
a variation of pressdowns using the rope. That exercise was almost useless. Lots of guys do it! Well, they didn't believe me a couple of weeks ago. An instructor showed them how to use my machine and the other night the group leader, who is very experienced, thanked me for suggesting the exercise because it is much better. We can all learn heaps of things about how to train more effectively.
That includes me.
This is all anecdotal evidence and proves absolutely nothing.
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[gquote author=SF1900 link=topic=395976.msg5858361#msg5858361 date=1326435102]
This is all anecdotal evidence and proves absolutely nothing.
[/quote]
What it proves is the lack of experience of many here.
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Nobody is waiting on you Vince, thats Vanity ;)
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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hey dude- for 67 you look like shit. congrats.
if he was 87 he would look like shit muscle wise. With all the knowledge that this guy has today, there's no reason he shouldn't be walking the earth at 10-12% bodyfat and atleast look like he lifts.
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Ya know I can totally understand if a guy doesn't give a shit about being 20% bodyfat and just wants to be big and strong but you look as if you've never touched a weight in your life.
arms look good
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Vince reminds me of my own countrymen. We won the world cup 'soccer' (football) in 1966 and people still go on as it that was last year. Living in the past because the present has become hell. Eh Vince. IF you want anyone to listen to you, pull your head out of your increasingly fat ass and drop the know-it-all attitude. You're not intelligent or the martyr you pretend to be. You've become increasingly isolated and delusional. Yes you won something 42 FUCKING YEARS AGO and managed to build a decent physique while on DRUGS. You're NEVER going to in shooting distance of that type of condition ever again. Ever ever again. You're old now Vince. You've had your days in the sun. Do you really think being insulted on a random bodybuilding forum is the best way to spend whatever time you have left? Forget the bodybuilding, focus on cardio to drop the fat and try and maintain your health. Running a fools errand to impress people 50 years younger than you is never going to yield anything.
You don't know everything Vince and pretending that you do would never fly in the real world. The moment anyone offers anything that goes contrary to you delusions, you start insulting and yapping like a parrot that knows only 3 words. You're fat with no muscle. You're in no position to preach.
Or do you find solace in being insulted and laughed up by pretty much everyone now? You must've done something all those years ago to feel that you deserve all of this.
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hey dude- for 67 you look like shit. congrats.
where's YOUR pic, genius???
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where's YOUR pic, genius???
he has posted pics and can back up what he says, trust me :D
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he has posted pics and can back up what he says, trust me :D
GIMMICK
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not a gimmick, 100% legit brah. been lurking these forums for years just thought i'd sign up and post for once ;)
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So what is the verdict Vince? Any new pics?
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he posted a couple of skewed shots, I asked if we could see the orginals a couple of times. Still waiting...
So what is the verdict Vince? Any new pics?
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There is no easy way to design an arm machine that provides resistance in two degrees of freedom. A robot is much easier to make. A human has to sit inside this machine to operate it thus requiring external mechanisms that provide resistance for curling and supinating or twisting.
The machine I built was probably the most complicated cable machine ever installed in a gym. It had 9 adjustments for pads, foot rest, arm length, and weights. Now it has only 6.
A dumbbell is simple, indeed, but can't easily provide supination. Well, it could if the handle was offset and more weight was on one side. Might be something worth looking at. At least for dumbbells up to about 50 or 60 pounds. Yes, this would be a simple solution and very effective even for bodybuilders to use. Can't say I have seen any such dumbbells in a gym. Might make a few to see how they work in the gym. There might be a sweet spot where the proportion is 70-30, 60-40, or something similar.
Are you fukin serious, man? You sound like a raving lunatic. Pics of the machine, anyone?
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(http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo96/joshistrashy/complicated-1.jpg)
(http://www.inewidea.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/20110628301.jpg)
(http://www.weight-lifting-complete.com/image-files/olympic-barbell-sets.jpg)
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Are you fukin serious, man? You sound like a raving lunatic. Pics of the machine, anyone?
;D
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Are you fukin serious, man? You sound like a raving lunatic. Pics of the machine, anyone?
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That's pretty funny even though I hate that little prick, Woody Allen. Pics of real machine, brah
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Are you fukin serious, man? You sound like a raving lunatic. Pics of the machine, anyone?
He's posted pics of the machine many times you dumb Paddy.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=452129;image)
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=452129;image)
This pic is photoshopped in the neck and waistline areas.
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Such intensity the likes of which have never been seen before! ;D
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Vince being a boy from the 40s one would think you would know the best way to build muscle is FREE FUCKEN WEIGHTS.
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Vince being a boy from the 40s one would think you would know the best way to build muscle is FREE FUCKEN WEIGHTS.
One day I will take all those free weights and toss them into the ocean where they belong. They are tools from the primitive age in bodybuilding and are responsible for muscleheads being considered knuckleheads. Hope this helps.
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One day I will take all those free weights and toss them into the ocean where they belong. They are tools from the primitive age in bodybuilding and are responsible for muscleheads being considered knuckleheads. Hope this helps.
lol, Bill Kazmaier and Ronnie Coleman know NOTHING of weight training and they love the free weights, those guys are so fuxcking TINY, just imagine how much bigger and more muscular theyd be with more leg extensions and machine bench presses.
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[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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"Vince" builds these machines with more pulleys, buttons, and attachments than the command chair of the Starship Enterprise, to fool young lads into paying 5x's more than they would at other gyms. Theory of Hypertrophy and Wolf tee-shirt sold separately.
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Vince when you trained with Arnold how many machines did he use be careful how you answer as I have also trained with him and know his workout style.
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Vince when you trained with Arnold how many machines did he use be careful how you answer as I have also trained with him and know his workout style.
Hi Franco.
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"Vince" builds these machines with more pulleys, buttons, and attachments than the command chair of the Starship Enterprise, to fool young lads into paying 5x's more than they would at other gyms. Theory of Hypertrophy and Wolf tee-shirt sold separately.
HE IS SIMPLY A FUCKING HAIRY 13 INCH FOREARMED MONNNNNNNNSSSSSSTTTTTEEE ERRRR. :P
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Hi Franco.
;D
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Vince when you trained with Arnold how many machines did he use be careful how you answer as I have also trained with him and know his workout style.
I never trained with Arnold. I was at Golds in October 1968 when he was training there. I also saw him train in Sydney. He uses free weights and machines.
He gave a seminar about training at my gym in 1974 and returned with Franco after the Olympia in 1980 when Franco gave a seminar in my gym.
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Vince's training partner.
(http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/9/94/C3PO_EP3.jpg)
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I never trained with Arnold. I was at Golds in October 1968 when he was training there. I also saw him train in Sydney. He uses free weights and machines.
He gave a seminar about training at my gym in 1974 and returned with Franco after the Olympia in 1980 when Franco gave a seminar in my gym.
didnt he at least tell you to shave your arms and legs?
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Such intensity the likes of which have never been seen before! ;D
Vince Basile's "contraptions" are a waste of money. A person doesn't need that hunk of shit just to train biceps. Instead of working his arms, he should hit the treadmill or exercise bike a bit
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Vince Basile's "contraptions" are a waste of money. A person doesn't need that hunk of shit just to train biceps. Instead of working his arms, he should hit the treadmill or exercise bike a bit
^THIS^
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^THIS^
Give me a set of freeweights and thats it.
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One day I will take all those free weights and toss them into the ocean where they belong. They are tools from the primitive age in bodybuilding and are responsible for muscleheads being considered knuckleheads. Hope this helps.
Omggggggggggggggggg :o
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Give me a set of freeweights and thats it.
X2
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I'm with the free weights too. I would never choose machines over free weights.
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Vince Basile's "contraptions" are a waste of money. A person doesn't need that hunk of shit just to train biceps. Instead of working his arms, he should hit the treadmill or exercise bike a bit
It is always refreshing to hear the opinion of Getbig's bona fide training expert and guru.
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Omggggggggggggggggg :o
Next time you are in Sydney contact me and I will meet you at my gym so you can try these machines yourself. Only then will you be able to comprehend what I post here re training.
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Next time you are in Sydney contact me and I will meet you at my gym so you can try these machines yourself. Only then will you be able to comprehend what I post here re training.
Why haven't you started production on these machines if they are so good?
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Vince Basile's "contraptions" are a waste of money. A person doesn't need that hunk of shit just to train biceps. Instead of working his arms, he should hit the treadmill or exercise bike a bit
x2 Truth from Vince G.
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Next time you are in Sydney contact me and I will meet you at my gym so you can try these machines yourself. Only then will you be able to comprehend what I post here re training.
Thanks Vince. :)
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Next time you are in Sydney contact me and I will meet you at my gym so you can try these machines yourself. Only then will you be able to comprehend what I post here re training.
Thanks Vince. :)
Forwarded to WillGrant for subsequent asskicking of geriatric old fuck. :)
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Forwarded to WillGrant for subsequent asskicking of geriatric old fuck. :)
Chaos, you haven't been the same since Milos wasn't involved in his gym. What a pity that gym closed. I heard it is/has reopened but it won't be the same.
None of you guys have the vocabulary to dismiss me! Hope this helps.
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Forwarded to WillGrant for subsequent asskicking of geriatric old fuck. :)
Oh don't worry I will be bringing Willgrant with me to Vinces gym. ;D
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I get the same results with free weights or machines, I hope this helps .
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None of you guys have the vocabulary to dismiss me!
This is truly a sad state of affairs...
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Chaos, you haven't been the same since Milos wasn't involved in his gym. What a pity that gym closed. I heard it is/has reopened but it won't be the same.
None of you guys have the vocabulary to dismiss me! Hope this helps.
Its already reopened, into a "fitness" gym. I don't need vocabulary, facts are facts. And you havent answered my question....why aren't your machines in production if they are so good?
Oh don't worry I will be bringing Willgrant with me to Vinces gym. ;D
Kinky. Didn't know Will was into hairy old men.....
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This movie here was loosely based on Vince Basile life including his bicep machine chair.
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Its already reopened, into a "fitness" gym. I don't need vocabulary, facts are facts. And you havent answered my question....why aren't your machines in production if they are so good?
Kinky. Didn't know Will was into hairy old men.....
He's not, but if I am going to sydney then I will bring him along too. We already want to go to Tony Dohertys gym together in Melbourne.
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Why haven't you started production on these machines if they are so good?
this is something that truly hurts vince to read, im being dead serious here. he read that and stuck one finger in each ear and started saying "LALALALALALALALA" while rocking back and forth scrolling down on his mouse with his fucken elbow so that your post would not be in view anymore, because!!....
two missions this man has in life before he dies (very serious!)
1. for a company to finally pick up his spamming advertising posts disguised as "genuine" posts about his fucken hand made gym equipment and for them to be sold for a fortune. this is the reason for his posts about his machines and having to mention that he "invented" them. in the hope that a company will finally pick him up!
2. to get blue stars on getbig by ron avidan. this is the reason he types in blue font instead.
he will die a peaceful man if these 2 things ever get ticked off his list.
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Chaos, you haven't been the same since Milos wasn't involved in his gym. What a pity that gym closed. I heard it is/has reopened but it won't be the same.
None of you guys have the vocabulary to dismiss me! Hope this helps.
why use big words when cu nt says it all
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He's posted pics of the machine many times you dumb Paddy.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=452129;image)
I saw this picture already in the thread and I thought it was a troll...is that really it? Wow :o
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I have removed the pads behind the upper arms. Makes the machine simpler with 2 fewer adjustments to make. Also accommodates fellows with thicker arms. I have made modifications to it several times over the last 10 years. I used a lot of stainless steel parts because it is a show piece. Now quite in the final stage yet but getting closer. Those who think dumbbells are superior haven't used this machine.
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I have removed the pads behind the upper arms. Makes the machine simpler with 2 fewer adjustments to make. Also accommodates fellows with thicker arms. I have made modifications to it several times over the last 10 years. I used a lot of stainless steel parts because it is a show piece. Now quite in the final stage yet but getting closer. Those who think dumbbells are superior haven't used this machine.
How is this different to using one of those preacher curl machines? The extra supination? How many more years will it be before you perfect this machine? Would you sell it for the right price?
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How much in $US if I want 100 units? could pay cash.
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Kinky. Didn't know Will was into hairy old men.....
lol
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Vincents BICEP machine is worth more in scrap metal than anything else. ::)
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I spent over 120 hours designing this machine. When I first conceived of it I went through all the positions for curls and selected the seated position. The arms are not as strong when held up when using the older Nautilus Biceps machine. Neither are the biceps in the strongest position doing various preacher curls. So, seated position it was and with a foot rest to push against.
Having resistance for supination makes doing curls even harder. You don't have to supinate during the movement but just having the load on the supination movement makes the biceps work harder. It was Arthur Jones who pointed out the supination function of the biceps. I always wanted a machine that would have resistance for the twisting movement. Having both on the same machine can provide brutal workouts for the biceps.
Someone pointed out that the photo of me using the machine has been photoshopped. Yes, because it was taken via a mirror since the machine faces a mirror. I had to remove a lot of noise, etc., to get a clearer shot. Then I reversed the photo so you could read Chris Isaak's name.
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None of you guys have the vocabulary to dismiss me! Hope this helps.
Vocabulary is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
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Very strange that Vince is so negative towards free weights at the end of his life. I don't think I've heard this from anyone else. Just him.
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free-weghts is the best!
80% of my excercises using freeweights since 40 years ago.
my pics says it ;)
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free-weghts is the best!
80% of my excercises using freeweights since 40 years ago.
So what? Muscleheads are so set in their ways that it is amazing they ever come up with anything new. Guys at the gym all copy each other.
Exercise selection and form spreads like a deadly virus and infects the hapless flotsam who love lifting weights. They wonder about like robots wondering
why they aren't growing much. They buy the protein and other pills. They hope they can locate someone who can help them get big.
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So what? Muscleheads are so set in their ways that it is amazing they ever come up with anything new. Guys at the gym all copy each other.
Exercise selection and form spreads like a deadly virus and infects the hapless flotsam who love lifting weights. They wonder about like robots wondering
why they aren't growing much. They buy the protein and other pills. They hope they can locate someone who can help them get big.
Strange that when you won your non-event title 42 years ago, you yourself had help from 'pills'. Sure, you looked good, but thanks to Dbol. You're fat these days so I'm not sure where your boundless moral authority stems from. As you said on Iron Age to Lydia. You didn't matter then and don't matter now.
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Vince, how is it going? Can we see some new pics?
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Vince, how is it going? Can we see some new pics?
I really wanna see new pics.
Vince, how much do you want for the machine? I'm just curious
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it is a show piece.
It looks like shit, hope this helps.
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Ask Spazile about his pinchgrip machine and how he holds the record lift on it.
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Freeweights or machines , it doesn't matter , it's all about consistency (nutrition and lifting) ,
BTW , nutrition is the most important factor for your workout success .
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Freeweights or machines , it doesn't matter , it's all about consistency (nutrition and lifting) ,
BTW , nutrition is the most important factor for your workout success .
lol
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lol
You should know this by now DJ181,
;D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=368752.0;attach=405686;image)
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Freeweights or machines , it doesn't matter , it's all about consistency (nutrition and lifting) ,
BTW , nutrition is the most important factor for your workout success .
Not on this board brother.....donuts and ice cream are king! :(
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Not on this board brother.....donuts and ice cream are king! :(
haha yes! nutrition is for wimps. I only eat reeces ice cream and pussy!
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Not on this board brother.....donuts and ice cream are king! :(
Don´t forget pussy + Beer :D :D
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Not on this board brother.....donuts and ice cream are king! :(
Generation nothingness .
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Generation nothingness .
Nobody`s strict these days and they wonder why they look like shit.
I tried the TA method and got sloppier than I ever have been in my life....this caused a big setback in this years contests...I know I would have done far better placement wise if I hadn`t fucked off on diet for 4 years.
As far as a veteran like Vince Basile goes,I bust his balls,but deep inside I truly do like him even though he preaches a dogmatic approach to training and has a closed mind.
You would think that in his present physical condition,and I`m not trying to put him down,that he would abandon the arm only training and get on a good diet and do cardio with whole body training split at least over 4 days............6 days woulkd be better as he would be burning more calories per day.
I saw guys who were natural at this years Masters Nats and North Americas who were well into their 70`s and looked great.
Talked to long time natural bodybuilder James Karas...........great guy,all natty and still looking fantastic for any age.
Rant over,but Vince could be in such great condition if he would at least consider others advice.
He did win the Mr. Canada,and that is something that can never be taken from him,but godaamit Vince,wake up and get fit not just adding adipose tissue to your already flabby arms.
He called Pellius small and says he doesn`t look like a bodybuilder but I bet pellius weighs more than he did when he won the Canada and he is always shredded!
OK,now I`m done!! ;D
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Nobody`s strict these days and they wonder why they look like shit.
I tried the TA method and got sloppier than I ever have been in my life....this caused a big setback in this years contests...I know I would have done far better placement wise if I hadn`t fucked off on diet for 4 years.
As far as a veteran like Vince Basile goes,I bust his balls,but deep inside I truly do like him even though he preaches a dogmatic approach to training and has a closed mind.
You would think that in his present physical condition,and I`m not trying to put him down,that he would abandon the arm only training and get on a good diet and do cardio with whole body training split at least over 4 days............6 days woulkd be better as he would be burning more calories per day.
I saw guys who were natural at this years Masters Nats and North Americas who were well into their 70`s and looked great.
Talked to long time natural bodybuilder James Karas...........great guy,all natty and still looking fantastic for any age.
Rant over,but Vince could be in such great condition if he would at least consider others advice.
He did win the Mr. Canada,and that is something that can never be taken from him,but godaamit Vince,wake up and get fit not just adding adipose tissue to your already flabby arms.
He called Pellius small and says he doesn`t look like a bodybuilder but I bet pellius weighs more than he did when he won the Canada and he is always shredded!
OK,now I`m done!! ;D
I agree 100%.
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I agree 100%.
I must be getting soft,or having a clomid moment but my post is sincere. LOL ;D
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I must be getting soft,or having a clomid moment but my post is sincere. LOL ;D
And you're quite correct. The simple adage of all ages still persists. Practice what you preach. I will take no lectures from someone that only trains arms and make no effort in reducing his body fat to acceptable levels. And to top it all of, his arrogance and unwillingness to listen to contrary opinions speaks volumes of his deteriorating mental ailments.
In short, Vince, you're not going to win over the 'flotsam' the way you're doing it now. Ever.
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And you're quite correct. The simple adage of all ages still persists. Practice what you preach. I will take no lectures from someone that only trains arms and make no effort in reducing his body fat to acceptable levels. And to top it all of, his arrogance and unwillingness to listen to contrary opinions speaks volumes of his deteriorating mental ailments.
In short, Vince, you're not going to win over the 'flotsam' the way you're doing it now. Ever.
Preach on !!
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So what? Muscleheads are so set in their ways that it is amazing they ever come up with anything new. Guys at the gym all copy each other.
Exercise selection and form spreads like a deadly virus and infects the hapless flotsam who love lifting weights. They wonder about like robots wondering
why they aren't growing much. They buy the protein and other pills. They hope they can locate someone who can help them get big.
SHUT IT FORESKINBREATH
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Vince just builds these machines so when his 1993 white Dodge Grand Caravan gets pulled over, he can say he needs the space for scrap metal.
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Vince just builds these machines so when his 1993 white Dodge Grand Caravan gets pulled over, he can say he needs the space for scrap metal.
;D
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Give me a set of freeweights and thats it.
This is like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad offering to do a PSA for Amnesty International. Free weights thank you for your endorsement, but have to decline your offer at this time.
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I must say, I've enjoyed the Vince Gironda/Larry Scott/Vince Basile triceps extensions these past few weeks, even though I don't have the nifty bench Mr. Basile has.
I can see how it'd be advantageous to have pads on either side of the upper arms, but I've had no trouble with the movement so long as I concentrate on keeping my elbows close to my head. Plus, an advantage to no pads is that, after you go to failure in the strict style, you can let your elbows drift outward and complete many, many more reps. Best of all, you can "cheat" the weight into the contracted position, then pull your arms snug against your head for a nice, slow negative. Think of a push press, only to lower the weight in strict, slow military style.
I did one set of those like that today. Actually, a drop set. 12 plates for 8 strict to failure, and 8 for 7ish strict with no rest. Then, I let my elbows go out as wide as necessary to complete each rep, then, as noted, pulled them tight against my head for each negative. By the time I finished, I sat on the floor for a minute and couldn't do a single push-up. Even the skin around my triceps near the elbow felt like it was going to tear out of my skin (no, I'm not clean right now, but I'm not on enough that it amounts to "holy sh*t my arms get pumped brushing my teeth"). All of the little old ladies and elderly gents gimping about regarded me as they would a madman. I love my gym :D
This is definitely an exercise to use a 12-15 RM weight with. Less than 10's too low IMO, especially given that it is very hard to get into position if you're the least bit strong.
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Very strange that Vince is so negative towards free weights at the end of his life. I don't think I've heard this from anyone else. Just him.
Is Vince going to die soon? How do you know that it is the end of his life?
Well this is coming from another old guy, I believe there are real benefits from using machines for weight training, not to the absolute exclusion of free weights though. Variety is key in weight training and muscle building. Personally, I use all manner of machines and free weights in my training. It helps alleviate boredom and keeps me going to the gym when I might otherwise get sick of the same old, same old and slough off.
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Hi, I'm Vince Basile and I'm going to the Moon!!!
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(http://i.imgur.com/HlFPL.jpg)
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So what? Muscleheads are so set in their ways that it is amazing they ever come up with anything new. Guys at the gym all copy each other.
Exercise selection and form spreads like a deadly virus and infects the hapless flotsam who love lifting weights. They wonder about like robots wondering
why they aren't growing much. They buy the protein and other pills. They hope they can locate someone who can help them get big.
;D
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I had another arm workout today at my gym. Used my favourite machines again. They are one heck of a combination for arms. A pity Milos wasn't here to try them out.
15 reps for triceps is recommended so injuries are avoided. Worked well and I ended up with a good pump. 10 or more reps for biceps gets the job done.
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Nobody`s strict these days and they wonder why they look like shit.
I tried the TA method and got sloppier than I ever have been in my life....this caused a big setback in this years contests...I know I would have done far better placement wise if I hadn`t fucked off on diet for 4 years.
Did you continue to train very hard at this time?
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(http://www2.islandpacket.com/ip_files/images/dr_life_3.img_assist_custom.jpg)
This is how you are supposed to look Vince.
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Did you continue to train very hard at this time?
I trained hard but I reduced training time to 3 days a week instead of my usual 5 days and I did no cardio.
Ate like shit,looked fat and terrible.
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I had another arm workout today at my gym. Used my favourite machines again. They are one heck of a combination for arms. A pity Milos wasn't here to try them out.
15 reps for triceps is recommended so injuries are avoided. Worked well and I ended up with a good pump. 10 or more reps for biceps gets the job done.
I agree on reps for triceps...too heavy invariably leads to injuries and elbow problems.
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(http://i.imgur.com/HlFPL.jpg)
great first post
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I had another arm workout today at my gym. Used my favourite machines again. They are one heck of a combination for arms. A pity Milos wasn't here to try them out.
15 reps for triceps is recommended so injuries are avoided. Worked well and I ended up with a good pump. 10 or more reps for biceps gets the job done.
on a serious note your machines are over engineered thats why you will never make any money off them the cost to manufacture would price them out the market
i admire your unshakeable self belief in the face of all the evidence but you are delusional and need to listen to people that have a diferent point of view from you sometimes to get some balance
you are blind to the truth
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(http://www2.islandpacket.com/ip_files/images/dr_life_3.img_assist_custom.jpg)
This is how you are supposed to look Vince.
Vince has been fat since 1936, when he won mr canada. now all he do is talks. its a shame really. doesnt matter how good of a pump you got training today when you're still FAT... :)
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I had another arm workout today at my gym. Used my favourite machines again. They are one heck of a combination for arms. A pity Milos wasn't here to try them out.
15 reps for triceps is recommended so injuries are avoided. Worked well and I ended up with a good pump. 10 or more reps for biceps gets the job done.
i have heard from a legitimate source that this robot death trap of an arm machine is very neglected in your gym by your members. word is, someone will wonder what the fuck this mountain of metal is, sit on it, perform a curl but something just doesnt feel right.
how many years now have you been trying to find a buyer for your..."inventions" via posts on getbig.com?
anyday now. hang in there. lol, could you imagine that thing as you walk into a gold's gym or similar..LOL!
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I just started flipping through this thread and I must say bodybuilding is like religion where everybody has different opinions on what road to take and keeping saying that their way is the best way. The fact is all training methods can help you to get results, just grab some weights and train, why are we trying to turn training into brain surgery.
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Vince has been fat since 1936, when he won mr canada. now all he do is talks. its a shame really. doesnt matter how good of a pump you got training today when you're still FAT... :)
To be serious, the guy should focus less on getting his arms to some arbitrary size and start working on his heart. Do cardio and lose some fat, they guy is pushing 70, all that extra weight; muscle or fat, puts a lot of unnecessary strain on the heart...cue 4 paragraph navy colored meltdown about getbig experts.
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(http://i.imgur.com/HlFPL.jpg)
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(http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/uploadedimages/7/6/5/3/2/104902.thumb?d=1258909243)
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(http://i.imgur.com/HlFPL.jpg)
LMFAO!!!
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:D
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Vince, which one of the 87 levers do you pull to activate the blindfold, ball gag, hand/leg restraints, and nipple clamps?
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Vince, which one of the 87 levers do you pull to activate the blindfold, ball gag, hand/leg restraints, and nipple clamps?
lolz
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(http://www.comingsoon.net/gallery/17253/Saw_IV_official_poster.jpg)
(http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_2010_12_08__17_41_53/Robotic%20chair.jpg71d8b984-4c53-4582-869a-f13615873b5dLarger.jpg)
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(http://greenmonster.in/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/arnold-schwarzenegger-doing-barbell-curls.jpg)
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Vince, which one of the 87 levers do you pull to activate the blindfold, ball gag, hand/leg restraints, and nipple clamps?
none, his boyfriend pulls them for "him".
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hey guys, they just delivered parts to assemble my basile bicep machine
(http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2010/08/07/1314_100805NS_MM_SALVAGEYARD01_t607.jpg)
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LOL ;D
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(http://thepirata.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/home_made_massage_chair_from_scrap.jpg)
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(http://chzfailafterdark.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/is-this-chair-for-punishment-or-reward.gif)
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;D ahaha funny fuckers
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Vince pls give an update on your progress.
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(http://chzfailafterdark.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/is-this-chair-for-punishment-or-reward.gif)
For Deanna Panting Iron Age Admin... :D
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I spent over 120 hours designing this machine. When I first conceived of it I went through all the positions for curls and selected the seated position. The arms are not as strong when held up when using the older Nautilus Biceps machine. Neither are the biceps in the strongest position doing various preacher curls. So, seated position it was and with a foot rest to push against.
Having resistance for supination makes doing curls even harder. You don't have to supinate during the movement but just having the load on the supination movement makes the biceps work harder. It was Arthur Jones who pointed out the supination function of the biceps. I always wanted a machine that would have resistance for the twisting movement. Having both on the same machine can provide brutal workouts for the biceps.
Someone pointed out that the photo of me using the machine has been photoshopped. Yes, because it was taken via a mirror since the machine faces a mirror. I had to remove a lot of noise, etc., to get a clearer shot. Then I reversed the photo so you could read Chris Isaak's name.
You spent 120 hours designing a bicep machine....I spent 2 seconds picking up a set of dumbbells.... ::)
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It is always refreshing to hear the opinion of Getbig's bona fide training expert and guru.
Oh please...Basile. You have built a bicep machine that has more shit on it than the cockpit of an F-16. Heck, you have gyroscopes and flex capacitors and shit that you can prob travel time back to 1955 if you added plutonium to it.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=452129;image)
Basile...this is why Arnold and Franco and Zane laughed at you....because you're a fool that believes that his ejection seat is going to replace dumbbells and barbells....I'm sorry but you need to donate that thing to Ripley's Believe It Or Not and put some weights back into your gym
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You spent 120 hours designing a bicep machine....I spent 2 seconds picking up a set of dumbbells.... ::)
;D
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This is just a little supination machine I've been working on in my shed on Sunday afternoons.
(http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2010/09/aliens_power-loader.jpg)
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QFT!....lol
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(http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/krang.jpg)
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This is just a little supination machine I've been working on in my shed on Sunday afternoons.
(http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2010/09/aliens_power-loader.jpg)
Not quite complicated enough for vince b's gym...
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LOL ;D
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This is now my desktop background
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Hahaha great thread
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ahuvxRitU74/TGnYIV5wM4I/AAAAAAAARZs/PxQpHAfzxlw/s400/old+man+walker.jpg)
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This is now my desktop background
the funny thing is when you recognize the design on the t shirt
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Oh please...Basile. You have built a bicep machine that has more shit on it than the cockpit of an F-16. Heck, you have gyroscopes and flex capacitors and shit that you can prob travel time back to 1955 if you added plutonium to it.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=452129;image)
Basile...this is why Arnold and Franco and Zane laughed at you....because you're a fool that believes that his ejection seat is going to replace dumbbells and barbells....I'm sorry but you need to donate that thing to Ripley's Believe It Or Not and put some weights back into your gym
Piss off you soft kunt, you're the one who sells tons of stuff nobody ever needs on their website.
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Piss off you soft kunt, you're the one who sells tons of stuff nobody ever needs on their website.
I sell products that everyday people want, dipshit. Revolving my business solely around catering to bodybuilders is a recipe for failure
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I sell products that everyday people want, dipshit. Revolving my business solely around catering to bodybuilders is a recipe for failure
your new pal Patty is a failure ... what do you sell give him ?
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(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/MODOKs11_260_5944.JPG)
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your new pal Patty is a failure ... what do you sell give him ?
I just started selling the Squatty Potty's this week....... ::)
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I just started selling the Squatty Potty's this week....... ::)
lol
are you saying he's full of shit ?
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Vince is a man who is ahead of his time, 200 years from now everybody will be using vince future machines to train and talk about how great vince was, but if vince machines rebelled against bodybuilders then they will have to go back in time for arnold the terminator.
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(http://chzfailafterdark.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/is-this-chair-for-punishment-or-reward.gif)
lolz
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Basile taking his bicep machine up to 88mph to get back to the future to try to re-create the wheel.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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One point two one jiggawatts?!
(I'm surprised Doc Brown didn't know the proper pronunciation, gig-ah-what, but then, he was touched.)
The only real problem I have with that supinator machine's that Vince photoshopped so much of his body in the pic. Get a cute girl to use the thing so the double-chin and belly don't have to be erased.
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One point two one jiggawatts?!
(I'm surprised Doc Brown didn't know the proper pronunciation, gig-ah-what, but then, he was touched.)
The only real problem I have with that supinator machine's that Vince photoshopped so much of his body in the pic. Get a cute girl to use the thing so the double-chin and belly don't have to be erased.
According to Basile, girls with double chins and bellies are cute.
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Finally a thread worth reading
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Someone should try to get Basiles machine in this museum
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Basile's son built a time travel machine to try to go back in time and get a new Dad.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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Give me a set of freeweights and thats it.
yes, you used those freeweights to great effect ;D
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Bump.
Has this fruity bag of toys posted pics lately?
THE BEEF
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Any updates?
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Looks like Vince has bailed on us.
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Looks like Vince has bailed on us.
He's most likely recovering from a stroke. :'( :'( :'(
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Looks like Vince has bailed on us.
Vince Basile = Vince "Bailed-easy" ;D
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Vince Basile = Vince "Bailed-easy" ;D
Nah, just another failed transformation in a long, long line of failed transformation. I hope against hope but it was doomed from the start. The idea that a man in his late sixties can exceed, let alone come even remotely close, to his Mr. Canada condition just went beyond delusional. The ability of man to fool and lie to himself never ceases to amaze me.
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Normally a total beginner makes the mistake of just training arms and expecting his body to grow...Vince after his years of "experience" did just that. I found his Experiment funny. I just can't understand why a man of his age would put himself in such a position to get slagged off here and in Iron age forum.
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I was back on track and close to 18 inch arms again last week. However, my lower forearms that do the pronation are tender. It is from the lying triceps extensions because the hands are facing downwards during the movement. Never had this problem before. I still think I can improve but it isn't easy growing bigger arms than ever because of the niggling injuries and tenderness. Don't you guys laugh. When you hit 50 you start falling apart. You need glasses for reading and can get sunburned in the summer for the first time. At 60 you have more problems and worry about hair loss and muscle tone. By the late 60s you will find it hard to get motivated to train consistently. Then the niggling pains here and there when you go heavier. These weren't there up to 35. You can't do bench press heavy and worry about your gut. Not a nice thing this ageing. I have shown to myself and some gym members that it is possible to get big, hard arms at my age. For that I am very pleased.
I haven't reached the level aimed for re arm size so I haven't got to the second level. It is still possible but now I know it will take longer than I thought.
Here is a photo taken about a week ago.
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I was back on track and close to 18 inch arms again last week. However, my lower forearms that do the pronation are tender. It is from the lying triceps extensions because the hands are facing downwards during the movement. Never had this problem before. I still think I can improve but it isn't easy growing bigger arms than ever because of the niggling injuries and tenderness. Don't you guys laugh. When you hit 50 you start falling apart. You need glasses for reading and can get sunburned in the summer for the first time. At 60 you have more problems and worry about hair loss and muscle tone. By the late 60s you will find it hard to get motivated to train consistently. Then the niggling pains here and there when you go heavier. These weren't there up to 35. You can't do bench press heavy and worry about your gut. Not a nice thing this ageing. I have shown to myself and some gym members that it is possible to get big, hard arms at my age. For that I am very pleased.
I haven't reached the level aimed for re arm size so I haven't got to the second level. It is still possible but now I know it will take longer than I thought.
Here is a photo taken about a week ago.
Vincent, not bashing at all here, but did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, it's your fucked up, overly complicated equipment causing your "niggling pains"?
Just sayin.
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Fucking riveting stuff here. ::)
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vince basil is my 2nd fav. guru :)
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Me thinks you shouldn't EVER let your gut get outta hand. I don't care how old you are.
The older you get, the more difficult it will be to get that gut back in check.
You can still get into top shape in your sixties. Iv'e seen it done many, many times. I've also seen men and women who don't let them selves go in the first place. That always seems to be *key*
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When you hit 50 you start falling apart.
We've been telling you this from the start.
Your original goal was to get back into the CONDITION and SIZE of your Mr Canada win.
Along the way the goal got smaller and smaller. Actually, we never moved past "the arm phase". In which STILL! was you still measuring "arm inches" in a state of 20-30% bodyfat! This is stupid and a sign that the brain also deteriorates in your late 60's.
18 inches in the conditioning of your Mr Canada years? THAT's!!! something impressive...sadly this never happened and will NEVER! happen.
"I will prove you don't need drugs to regain my former condition and size"
- Vince Bail-easy
"we just proved you DO need drugs to regain your former condition and size!'
- getbig.com
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And FFS how hard is it to do a double bicep pointed toward the camera? every single one of your "update shots" you are elbowing the fuck out of the lens.
Or is this a "camera trick" where anything closer to the lens "seems bigger" ::)
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Haha, I like your spirit, Vince. Growing old disgracefully and resentfully is keeping you young at heart. 8)
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Haha, I like your spirit, Vince. Growing old disgracefully and resentfully is keeping you young at heart. 8)
so i guess that you'd be happy to hear that i'm chasing 18-19 year olds even though i'm nearing 40 ;D
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so i guess that you'd be happy to hear that i'm chasing 18-19 year olds even though i'm nearing 40 ;D
Women in their late 30s - early 40s are fucking great.
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Don't know why Vince just don't go on a light Test cycle. Seems like it would work wonders for him and his body at that age. This stupid moral stance on drugs of his is senseless seeing that he's striving for a physique that was built on drugs in the first place.
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Women in their late 30s - early 40s are fucking great.
you must be in your mid-20s yes?
at that age, i was all into the mid-30s females as well, but nothing beats a tight, fresh young pussy and asshole man
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you must be in your mid-20s yes?
at that age, i was all into the mid-30s females as well, but nothing beats a tight, fresh young pussy and asshole man
so you swing both ways with the fresh young pussy and the man asshole which do you prefer.
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so you swing both ways with the fresh young pussy and the man asshole which do you prefer.
nah man, the mans assholes are all yours
coz i wouldn't want to take away any of your action
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Don't know why Vince just don't go on a light Test cycle. Seems like it would work wonders for him and his body at that age. This stupid moral stance on drugs of his is senseless seeing that he's striving for a physique that was built on drugs in the first place.
What nonsense. I trained for 12 years before using a couple of Dianabol tablets per day for a couple of months. I didn't grow much on the Dbol.
Here is a photo taken in 1964.
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What nonsense. I trained for 12 years before using a couple of Dianabol tablets per day for a couple of months. I didn't grow much on the Dbol.
Here is a photo taken in 1964.
It is something like 2 or 3am in austrralia...its not hard when you look at your posts picking on people with acheivements and then look at your own, to tell where exactly you are as a person today.
3am in the dark, alone, on getbig.com.
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I was back on track and close to 18 inch arms again last week. However, my lower forearms that do the pronation are tender. It is from the lying triceps extensions because the hands are facing downwards during the movement. Never had this problem before. I still think I can improve but it isn't easy growing bigger arms than ever because of the niggling injuries and tenderness. Don't you guys laugh. When you hit 50 you start falling apart. You need glasses for reading and can get sunburned in the summer for the first time. At 60 you have more problems and worry about hair loss and muscle tone. By the late 60s you will find it hard to get motivated to train consistently. Then the niggling pains here and there when you go heavier. These weren't there up to 35. You can't do bench press heavy and worry about your gut. Not a nice thing this ageing. I have shown to myself and some gym members that it is possible to get big, hard arms at my age. For that I am very pleased.
I haven't reached the level aimed for re arm size so I haven't got to the second level. It is still possible but now I know it will take longer than I thought.
Here is a photo taken about a week ago.
TENDER, TENDER, TENER fucken forearms, what a warrior.
Admit it to the flotsam you fruity old bag of toys, everything you shot your mouth off about, you can't back up. ADMIT IT, YOU WERE WRONG.
THE BEEF
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vince making a complete cu nt of himself for a change ::)
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All Vince has to do to improve his build immensely,is to diet down,do lots of cardio,and train his entire body with moderate poundages.
For a guy that owns his own gym,he could do this in 60 minutes a day or less,for 5 days of the week.
This takes a lot of comittment,much more than a pipe dream of just building arm size that is mostly just useless adipose tissue.
I`d rather be small and lean with a 14 inch muscular arm than overweight and soft with a fat 20 inch arm.
Fuck all the ridiculous training theories,just train hard,eat right,and do some walking on a fucking treadmill.
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excellent post!
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All Vince has to do to improve his build immensely,is to diet down,do lots of cardio,and train his entire body with moderate poundages.
For a guy that owns his own gym,he could do this in 60 minutes a day or less,for 5 days of the week.
This takes a lot of comittment,much more than a pipe dream of just building arm size that is mostly just useless adipose tissue.
I`d rather be small and lean with a 14 inch muscular arm than overweight and soft with a fat 20 inch arm.
Fuck all the ridiculous training theories,just train hard,eat right,and do some walking on a fucking treadmill.
x2
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x2
X fucking 3....you know it makes sense !
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I was back on track and close to 18 inch arms again last week. However, my lower forearms that do the pronation are tender. It is from the lying triceps extensions because the hands are facing downwards during the movement. Never had this problem before. I still think I can improve but it isn't easy growing bigger arms than ever because of the niggling injuries and tenderness. Don't you guys laugh. When you hit 50 you start falling apart. You need glasses for reading and can get sunburned in the summer for the first time. At 60 you have more problems and worry about hair loss and muscle tone. By the late 60s you will find it hard to get motivated to train consistently. Then the niggling pains here and there when you go heavier. These weren't there up to 35. You can't do bench press heavy and worry about your gut. Not a nice thing this ageing. I have shown to myself and some gym members that it is possible to get big, hard arms at my age. For that I am very pleased.
I haven't reached the level aimed for re arm size so I haven't got to the second level. It is still possible but now I know it will take longer than I thought.
Here is a photo taken about a week ago.
At least now you are willing to admit getting old plays a factor, a detrimental one, in muscle hyupertrophy. Hopefully it won't be long, if you don't give up, which you probably will, that you will also begin to realize that when you are old your body does not produce the hormones necessary, e.g., hgh/testosterone, for muscle hypertrophy.
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At least now you are willing to admit getting old plays a factor, a detrimental one, in muscle hyupertrophy. Hopefully it won't be long, if you don't give up, which you probably will, that you will also begin to realize that when you are old your body does not produce the hormones necessary, e.g., hgh/testosterone, for muscle hypertrophy.
you finally starting to see the light
vince is the most delusional idiot on here
fact
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The man is not an idiot. He had his time and now it´s time to train for his age. .as i do at 45. his claims made me also laugh.
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Wes teaching the younger bodybuilder Vince a lesson in this thread.
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I still dont get it? "Fist pump" maybe ???
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=458558;image)
(http://images.picturesdepot.com/photo/a/adam_scott_fist_pump-19050.jpg)
(http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptustenexperts/ivanovic-fist-pump-ao12.jpg)
(http://www.fulcrumgallery.com/product-images/P228216-01/derek-jeter-2006-fist-pump.jpg)
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/dmbaker/dmbaker1009/dmbaker100900083/7819068-a-businessman-with-clenched-fist-pump-celebrating-success-while-talking-on-his-mobile-cell-phone.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/03/article-0-0BE10F1300000578-470_468x381.jpg)
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What nonsense. I trained for 12 years before using a couple of Dianabol tablets per day for a couple of months. I didn't grow much on the Dbol.
Here is a photo taken in 1964.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=458572;image)
(http://a2.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/37/eeed5aaa6963b1372cd76fd6f37386f1/l.jpg)
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Wes teaching the younger bodybuilder Vince a lesson in this thread.
yes Wes has a vast knowledge of training.
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At the age of 69 its much better to lose some weight and not worry about 18inch arms, your joints will thank you for that.
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At the age of 69 its much better to lose some weight and not worry about 18inch arms, your joints will thank you for that.
YES...
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All Vince has to do to improve his build immensely,is to diet down,do lots of cardio,and train his entire body with moderate poundages.
For a guy that owns his own gym,he could do this in 60 minutes a day or less,for 5 days of the week.
This takes a lot of comittment,much more than a pipe dream of just building arm size that is mostly just useless adipose tissue.
I`d rather be small and lean with a 14 inch muscular arm than overweight and soft with a fat 20 inch arm.
Fuck all the ridiculous training theories,just train hard,eat right,and do some walking on a fucking treadmill.
Correct
But that entails hard-work
Flotsam eating with some flotsam training, basically adding adipose to adipose is easier
Benfatto is in his mid50s now, age is no excuse
Vince taylor
Robby
Labrada
With your OWN GYM ! FFS...
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All Vince has to do to improve his build immensely,is to diet down,do lots of cardio,and train his entire body with moderate poundages.
For a guy that owns his own gym,he could do this in 60 minutes a day or less,for 5 days of the week.
This takes a lot of comittment,much more than a pipe dream of just building arm size that is mostly just useless adipose tissue.
I`d rather be small and lean with a 14 inch muscular arm than overweight and soft with a fat 20 inch arm.
Fuck all the ridiculous training theories,just train hard,eat right,and do some walking on a fucking treadmill.
x2. For all the time he spends builting these piston powered rape dungeon chairs, he can grab some dumbbells or exercise bands as well as pedal an exercise bike for 30 minutes a day.
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All Vince has to do to improve his build immensely,is to diet down,do lots of cardio,and train his entire body with moderate poundages.
For a guy that owns his own gym,he could do this in 60 minutes a day or less,for 5 days of the week.
This takes a lot of comittment,much more than a pipe dream of just building arm size that is mostly just useless adipose tissue.
I`d rather be small and lean with a 14 inch muscular arm than overweight and soft with a fat 20 inch arm.
Fuck all the ridiculous training theories,just train hard,eat right,and do some walking on a fucking treadmill.
how big are your arms?
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What nonsense. I trained for 12 years before using a couple of Dianabol tablets per day for a couple of months. I didn't grow much on the Dbol.
Here is a photo taken in 1964.
Just get on the sauce already for fuck sake. All you've done is harden up an arm. Big deal. My granddad was a farmer. Rock hard arms into his 70's. Never touched a weight in his life. Big legs too. It's genes. You haven't achieved anything since September 2011 when you started this.
If you're hell-bent on teaching the flotsam something, show us how to safely build a good physique with intelligent and minimal drug use. Because watching you fumble around and fuck up is painful. If you really want to stay on this idiotic path, read the post Wes made above and get yourself on that treadmill.
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how big are your arms?
Bigger than yours I`d bet!
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Wes teaching the younger bodybuilder Vince a lesson in this thread.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5BBZl-_TMlE/TgyZcQvEW1I/AAAAAAAA6Qc/k4TvBJybhNs/s400/wolverine-hughjackman.jpg)
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Bigger than yours I`d bet!
You don't wanna bet and lose your walker, grandpa. Arms are my very best bodypart ;) 8)
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You don't wanna bet and lose your walker, grandpa. Arms are my very best bodypart ;) 8)
::)
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No wonder I call most here the flotsam. No clue at all about hypertrophy. First of all no way I am using hormone replacement, vitamins or supplements of any kind. That was part of the experiment: to see if the body would produce enough to generate hypertrophy. Yes, to a marked degree the body does this if you trigger hypertrophy in a regular way.
When I started bodybuilding back in 1958 the belief then was that Mr Universes were musclebound. It was believed that carrying massive muscles into old age was neither healthy or desirable. So we all told ourselves that when we got over 60 we would cut back on our bodyweight and listen to the doctors. Well, this board is Gebig, not live happily ever after looking like a swimmer. To heck with that. I have always wanted to have larger muscles. So, I endeavoured to see if that could be accomplished at my age. Well, it isn't so easy because of the darn injuries. The hypertrophy mechanism is functioning as it did when I was younger. It seems even better now because my workouts trigger more growth. The problems appear as the size increases to the point where heavy resistance is required to stimulate further growth. This is not so easy to overcome and is frustrating.
I am talking about actual physical processes and potential so spare me the lame advice about what to do re my physique.
I am impressive for my age when I am out and about. No doubt about that at all.
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And I thought goodrum was delusional. Basile you fat fuck you've lost your marbles.
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I am impressive for my age when I am out and about. No doubt about that at all.
Vince,not bashing and you had a very good physique back in the day,but at your age,and this is just an opinion from one of the resident flotsam,you should lean out and go for a more muscular appearance rather than just meaningless size intermingled with fat.
I`m sure you remember Claude Rigon and James Karas,and Elliot Gilchrist.......I`ve competed in shows with those guys and they all looked great for their respective ages and were all pretty lithe and lean looking.
I know you don`t care to hear the truth,so strap yourself back into your flux capacitator for phase # 106.
:(
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No wonder I call most here the flotsam. No clue at all about hypertrophy. First of all no way I am using hormone replacement, vitamins or supplements of any kind. That was part of the experiment: to see if the body would produce enough to generate hypertrophy. Yes, to a marked degree the body does this if you trigger hypertrophy in a regular way.
When I started bodybuilding back in 1958 the belief then was that Mr Universes were musclebound. It was believed that carrying massive muscles into old age was neither healthy or desirable. So we all told ourselves that when we got over 60 we would cut back on our bodyweight and listen to the doctors. Well, this board is Gebig, not live happily ever after looking like a swimmer. To heck with that. I have always wanted to have larger muscles. So, I endeavoured to see if that could be accomplished at my age. Well, it isn't so easy because of the darn injuries. The hypertrophy mechanism is functioning as it did when I was younger. It seems even better now because my workouts trigger more growth. The problems appear as the size increases to the point where heavy resistance is required to stimulate further growth. This is not so easy to overcome and is frustrating.
I am talking about actual physical processes and potential so spare me the lame advice about what to do re my physique.
I am impressive for my age when I am out and about. No doubt about that at all.
ROAR OUT FUCKEN LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone is an expert in the Irongame!
THE BEEF
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I am impressive for my age when I am out and about. No doubt about that at all.
When you are out and about with fatter people, yes.
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Vincent, not bashing at all here, but did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, it's your fucked up, overly complicated equipment causing your "niggling pains"?
Just sayin.
lolz
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No wonder I call most here the flotsam. No clue at all about hypertrophy. First of all no way I am using hormone replacement, vitamins or supplements of any kind. That was part of the experiment: to see if the body would produce enough to generate hypertrophy. Yes, to a marked degree the body does this if you trigger hypertrophy in a regular way.
When I started bodybuilding back in 1958 the belief then was that Mr Universes were musclebound. It was believed that carrying massive muscles into old age was neither healthy or desirable. So we all told ourselves that when we got over 60 we would cut back on our bodyweight and listen to the doctors. Well, this board is Gebig, not live happily ever after looking like a swimmer. To heck with that. I have always wanted to have larger muscles. So, I endeavoured to see if that could be accomplished at my age. Well, it isn't so easy because of the darn injuries. The hypertrophy mechanism is functioning as it did when I was younger. It seems even better now because my workouts trigger more growth. The problems appear as the size increases to the point where heavy resistance is required to stimulate further growth. This is not so easy to overcome and is frustrating.
I am talking about actual physical processes and potential so spare me the lame advice about what to do re my physique.
I am impressive for my age when I am out and about. No doubt about that at all.
Vince, you've gone mad. You have to be the oldest internet troll in existence.
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What nonsense. I trained for 12 years before using a couple of Dianabol tablets per day for a couple of months. I didn't grow much on the Dbol.
Here is a photo taken in 1964.
Great pic, good structure Vince, would of been Interesting to see just what you could of actually done with it if you went down the same path as others of the day with alot of Drugs, the actual structure was there to build a very good Physique.
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No wonder I call most here the flotsam. No clue at all about hypertrophy. First of all no way I am using hormone replacement, vitamins or supplements of any kind. That was part of the experiment: to see if the body would produce enough to generate hypertrophy. Yes, to a marked degree the body does this if you trigger hypertrophy in a regular way.
When I started bodybuilding back in 1958 the belief then was that Mr Universes were musclebound. It was believed that carrying massive muscles into old age was neither healthy or desirable. So we all told ourselves that when we got over 60 we would cut back on our bodyweight and listen to the doctors. Well, this board is Gebig, not live happily ever after looking like a swimmer. To heck with that. I have always wanted to have larger muscles. So, I endeavoured to see if that could be accomplished at my age. Well, it isn't so easy because of the darn injuries. The hypertrophy mechanism is functioning as it did when I was younger. It seems even better now because my workouts trigger more growth. The problems appear as the size increases to the point where heavy resistance is required to stimulate further growth. This is not so easy to overcome and is frustrating.
I am talking about actual physical processes and potential so spare me the lame advice about what to do re my physique.
I am impressive for my age when I am out and about. No doubt about that at all.
if this is meant to be funny you are a comedy genuis
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I am impressive for my age when I am out and about. No doubt about that at all.
Sounds like a Cole Porter line.
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Basile cracks me up. ;D
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Need some decent progress pics please.
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Updates?
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Na..doubt it... Vince is now on Iron Age Old Farts Forum... ;D
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...
I am talking about actual physical processes and potential so spare me the lame advice about what to do re my physique.
I am impressive for my age when I am out and about. No doubt about that at all.
Sorry, but you are fat and hairy and simply look like an ordinary fat, old man. You need to lose weight in order to look fit and muscular.
NN
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No wonder I call most here the flotsam. No clue at all about hypertrophy. First of all no way I am using hormone replacement, vitamins or supplements of any kind. That was part of the experiment: to see if the body would produce enough to generate hypertrophy. Yes, to a marked degree the body does this if you trigger hypertrophy in a regular way.
When I started bodybuilding back in 1958 the belief then was that Mr Universes were musclebound. It was believed that carrying massive muscles into old age was neither healthy or desirable. So we all told ourselves that when we got over 60 we would cut back on our bodyweight and listen to the doctors. Well, this board is Gebig, not live happily ever after looking like a swimmer. To heck with that. I have always wanted to have larger muscles. So, I endeavoured to see if that could be accomplished at my age. Well, it isn't so easy because of the darn injuries. The hypertrophy mechanism is functioning as it did when I was younger. It seems even better now because my workouts trigger more growth. The problems appear as the size increases to the point where heavy resistance is required to stimulate further growth. This is not so easy to overcome and is frustrating.
I am talking about actual physical processes and potential so spare me the lame advice about what to do re my physique.
I am impressive for my age when I am out and about. No doubt about that at all.
So at the your age, you are clever enough to try to build body without any supplements, and now you are wondering about the injuries and non existent size increasing? Well, if you drop off something from the equation, the outcome can't be same..You talk about hypertrophy like an inventor of the whole thing, but more I read about it, it seem to be just plain and simple the mechanism which bodybuilding is based on. You stimulate your muscles, and they grow, if your protein intake is right. That is all in it. All muscle stimulation launch hypertrophy, so if you lift weights, there it is. All the rest in the matter is subjective, so if you "feel" that your machines help to maintain hypertrophy, it is all in your head. For example, we could ask where is all the great bodybuilders who has used "your" technique? Where is the proof that it works better than "Adonis principals" for example. You "Gurus" seem to be mentally in the same league, and equally full of shit.
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dj181 already tried this bullshit.
FACT
and i'm gonna try it again, but this time with 20 mg of superdrol per day, so maybe this time it will work ;D
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Bodybuilding in old age is like driving a vintage car. No matter how good it looks it still squeeks and squawks when you push it hard.
I am taking training around an injury to a new level!
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So at the your age, you are clever enough to try to build body without any supplements, and now you are wondering about the injuries and non existent size increasing? Well, if you drop off something from the equation, the outcome can't be same..You talk about hypertrophy like an inventor of the whole thing, but more I read about it, it seem to be just plain and simple the mechanism which bodybuilding is based on. You stimulate your muscles, and they grow, if your protein intake is right. That is all in it. All muscle stimulation launch hypertrophy, so if you lift weights, there it is. All the rest in the matter is subjective, so if you "feel" that your machines help to maintain hypertrophy, it is all in your head. For example, we could ask where is all the great bodybuilders who has used "your" technique? Where is the proof that it works better than "Adonis principals" for example. You "Gurus" seem to be mentally in the same league, and equally full of shit.
This is what most believe. The content of your post reveals that you know almost nothing about advanced hypertrophy. Join the club that have no clue about how to grow rapidly.
The vast majority of guys doing what you suggest are not making any gains at all. Why is that? To me that proves there is something wrong with what you suggest. BTW, you don't need all that much protein.
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YOU LOOK LIKE SHIT
hope this helps. :o
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Bodybuilding in old age is like driving a vintage car. No matter how good it looks it still squeeks and squawks when you push it hard.
I am taking training around an injury to a new level!
have your training loads gone up? if not, then you don't have bigger muscles
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Holy fuck Vince have your blood pressure checked immediately
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=460384;image)
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YOU LOOK LIKE SHIT
hope this helps. :o
is that you in the pic? if so, then shut up.
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Bodybuilding in old age is like driving a vintage car. No matter how good it looks it still squeeks and squawks when you push it hard.
I am taking training around an injury to a new level!
monster flabby canasta player triceps, 205/190 blood pressure reading, Eddie Munster eyebrows and lean body mass, white couch, white van now missing a white back seat, and undeserved look of smug satisfaction.
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I am out in the sun a lot taking photos of landscapes, etc. This is my new white van!
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monster flabby canasta player triceps, 205/190 blood pressure reading, Eddie Munster eyebrows and lean body mass, white couch, white van now missing a white back seat, and undeserved look of smug satisfaction.
My forearms are like high tensile steel. I could easily pull out your ribs with one blow.
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My forearms are still as big as ever which is pleasing. I have some safety fat of course in case of sickness or injury. I don't want to reduce too much because then I would
have to buy a new wardrobe! ;D
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My forearms are like high tensile steel. I could easily pull out your ribs with one blow.
100% attributable to extreme masturbation......of other people.
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LOL @ 'safety fat' ! :D
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You looked better on page 1 Vince.
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Being 69 isn't that great. Age eventually makes everyone look bad.
Here is a photo when I was 56. That was only 13 years ago.
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My 83 yr old Dad never lifted weights and with all due respect, has better biceps. In other words Sir, you look no different than any other 69 yr old out there. Don't get me wrong, you don't look outlandishly out of shape, but I'm starting to think you're just having some fun with us with the posing.
If you're serious, then please disregard the above paragraph, you look totally awesome! ;)
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Have you young guys had a look at old farts who are 69-70? Most don't look good at all. I hold up well compared to most people my age.
I can flex my arms and feel good about what I have achieved. I can tell you it is easy to not do much training at my age. Getbig gives me the motivation
to train hard enough to grow.
At the moment I am too heavy. When I start to trim up I should look better.
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Have you young guys had a look at old farts who are 69-70? Most don't look good at all. I hold up well compared to most people my age.
I can flex my arms and feel good about what I have achieved. I can tell you it is easy to not do much training at my age. Getbig gives me the motivation
to train hard enough to grow.
At the moment I am too heavy. When I start to trim up I should look better.
do you looks like 4 steps from death...no
but you are starting to resemble the word delusional
its great that at 69 you still want to train and care about your health ( dont get me wrong)
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Seems to me just about everyone on this forum is either delusional or a bullshitter!
Here I am in 2004 in Surrey which is just outside of Vancouver, BC.
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vince = delusional idiot
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Vince, your neck is magnificent. How do you train it, or are you just gifted?
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LOL. I look like an old rooster nowadays. Curse old age!
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just realised vince is trolling
well done you fat old cu nt
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Have you young guys had a look at old farts who are 69-70? Most don't look good at all. I hold up well compared to most people my age.
I can flex my arms and feel good about what I have achieved. I can tell you it is easy to not do much training at my age. Getbig gives me the motivation
to train hard enough to grow.
At the moment I am too heavy. When I start to trim up I should look better.
Vince, stop complaining about your age.
Here is a TV advert my mate Tommy Hafey shot at 79 and 10 months. Evan though Jeep turned 70, Tom just turned 80.
Tommy is our FitX ambassador for 2012. http://www.fitx.com.au/
He is a true inspiration!
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When I start to trim up I should look better.
and when will that be? with time being on your side and all...
Your face color is that of someone with serious health problems, most likely stupidly high blood pressure with an organ or two responding at below 50%. This has nothing to do with you "being out in the sun" a lot. The skin color is only in the face and the rest of you is white. You are in deep shit because you have been overweight for far too long without doing anything about it.
secondly,
again with these ridiculous arm pictures. all of them are a display of your elbows and hairy arms. do you remember how to perform a front biceps shot from your mr canada days? or did you show off your elbows to the judges back then too?
You are a mess old man. nothing but excuses throughout this whole thread. EXCUSES = fail of a human being!
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Have you young guys had a look at old farts who are 69-70? Most don't look good at all. I hold up well compared to most people my age.
I can flex my arms and feel good about what I have achieved. I can tell you it is easy to not do much training at my age. Getbig gives me the motivation
to train hard enough to grow.
At the moment I am too heavy. When I start to trim up I should look better.
Your claim was that age is no hindrance to bodybuilding. You claimed that you could exceed your level of physical conditioning and muscular size that you achieved back when you won Mr. Canada. You are in your sixth month already -- six months! -- and I see no discernible progress. If you attribute that to injuries, injuries you presumably did not have to deal with when you were younger, then that is just more real world proof that age is indeed a huge obstacle in maintaining and improving physical conditioning and muscle hypertrophy.
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Clarence Bass, the late Jack La Lanne, the late Serge Nubret, Chet Yorton, Ed Corney... there are so many more that have stayed in shape since their younger and more competitive days. So many more.
National Averages? No. We suck. Fatties are ubiquitous, but you could have easily had a six pack of abs by now.
No more arm shots. Let's see that "safety" fat around your navel... or, better yet, let's not.
"Safety fat" ~ that's like Auschwitz fat bro. - and *that* is NOT what you are sporting these days.
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100% attributable to extreme masturbation......of other people.
Haha
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Tommy Hafey has got no "safety fat" he has never been sick in his life.
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Your claim was that age is no hindrance to bodybuilding. You claimed that you could exceed your level of physical conditioning and muscular size that you achieved back when you won Mr. Canada. You are in your sixth month already -- six months! -- and I see no discernible progress. If you attribute that to injuries, injuries you presumably did not have to deal with when you were younger, then that is just more real world proof that age is indeed a huge obstacle in maintaining and improving physical conditioning and muscle hypertrophy.
fucking hell thats a first
good post
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Your claim was that age is no hindrance to bodybuilding. You claimed that you could exceed your level of physical conditioning and muscular size that you achieved back when you won Mr. Canada. You are in your sixth month already -- six months! -- and I see no discernible progress. If you attribute that to injuries, injuries you presumably did not have to deal with when you were younger, then that is just more real world proof that age is indeed a huge obstacle in maintaining and improving physical conditioning and muscle hypertrophy.
Fair enough, Pellius. However, I am more interested in seeing if I can get my arms bigger than ever before. I equalled my past best but injuries prevented me from exceeding it. That was frustrating. I also believe that keeping the muscles growing is as close as we can get to the fountain of youth without chemicals.
There simply isn't a safe exercise to get really big triceps. Not when you are older.
Just training to look good on the beach is not very compelling for me. I want to get bigger muscles. That is the challenge.
Injuries are often masked and you don't realize you have them until you lift heavy. Then you discover it hurts to do lat pulldowns. Heck, 20 years ago I could do 20 plates easy for 5 reps without warming up. Those days are gone. Curse getting older. Guys who are fit and lean are impressive but not to me. I never cared for that look or lifestyle. I always thought guys who did marathons or triathlons were nuts. I still do. Ditto for those Tour de France lunatics.
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Heres a pic of Martin Yates Brown,from England and been competing from the age of 16,this is him at age 63 from 2 years ago,just to show you can still get in shape at an advanced age.
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Good thing our Vince has his 'safety fat.' It's absorbing some of the savage beating he's taking.
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Good thing our Vince has his 'safety fat.' It's absorbing some of the savage beating he's taking.
... ;D yes Vincent is taking it all very well i must say.. I nearly feel sorry for the man.
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Good thing our Vince has his 'safety fat.' It's absorbing some of the savage beating he's taking.
:D
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Fair enough, Pellius. However, I am more interested in seeing if I can get my arms bigger than ever before. I equalled my past best but injuries prevented me from exceeding it. That was frustrating. I also believe that keeping the muscles growing is as close as we can get to the fountain of youth without chemicals.
.
Just an observation, ...If you were 7% bodyfat for Mr. Canada, and you are now 25% bodyfat, how will you be able to determine your bicep is "bigger" than ever before on a level playing field?
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The reason old man Vince wants to hang onto his safety fat, is that he lives in fear of being stranded in the Australian Outback and not being able to live off his bodyfat until rescued or eaten by Aborigines. Much of his safety fat is in his head. He also has a lot of fat that is unsafe.
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Injuries are often masked and you don't realize you have them until you lift heavy. Then you discover it hurts to do lat pulldowns. Heck, 20 years ago I could do 20 plates easy for 5 reps without warming up. Those days are gone. Curse getting older. Guys who are fit and lean are impressive but not to me. I never cared for that look or lifestyle. I always thought guys who did marathons or triathlons were nuts. I still do. Ditto for those Tour de France lunatics.
Where did that from? In a reply from Pellius' post...?
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Let's talk injuries. If you tear a muscle you know it immediately and you stop doing what you are doing. It is usually a sharp pain. You have to cease training that part for a couple of weeks at least. If you do a major tear then the healing will be longer and you will see a deformed muscle. This can happen to the pecs and biceps. Some guys have torn triceps or muscles in their backs as well.
Then you have the little niggling pains. These can persist until it is painful to do an exercise. You can get sore in the deltoids so that doing bench presses hurts. Eventually you can't do heavy benches any more. There is no noticeable pain as long as you don't bench heavy. This can occur over decades.
Then there are hidden pains. These appear for no good reason. For example, you can have a long layoff but when you resume you might feel that something hurts when you do an exercise. That happens to me now with pulldowns. It used to be an exercise I could do with no worries at all. Now I get some pain in the shoulder area and it makes it unpleasant to continue and definitely gets worse if I go heavy. Exactly what is happening in the joints is a mystery.
So all you experts out there beware when you get older. Your body starts to fall apart. The muscles are capable of rapid hypertrophy but the connective tissue is easily damaged and somethings won't heal properly or at all. If you go heavy the injuries present and you have to scale back your training and do more reps with lighter weights. With triceps it is possible to train with tender elbows if you thoroughly warm up with several sets of high reps. 40 or 50 reps. The swollen tissue masks the pain and allows you to progress and use heavier weights. If you go real heavy and do less than 10 reps you can get minor tears. Just one of those things. It sure is frustrating. Perhaps all the injuries over the years makes some of our joints weaker so they give way in old age? Injuries can happen from doing various sports such as throwing. Bodybuilding is usually safe. Powerlifting is not safe. Eventually you will tear something. Deadlifts are a curse. I tore a biceps doing that stupid exercise. They have absolutely no place in a bodybuilding program.
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10 sets of 10 with 30-45 seconds rest between sets.
The first few sets will be easy,but much harder as you go on to the latter sets.
This way you can avoid going so heavy and spare yourself some pain.
I know your dogmatic about your own theories,but there are more ways than one to skin a cat.
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Genuine advice for big man Basille:
Take 1 shot of 250 mg test enanthate weekly/bi weekly
1-2 hours of cardio 5-6 days per week
Diet
High rep/low weight resistance training
Your like one of my fat friends. He always argues when I tell him to do cardio and diet by claiming to have a better physique because his arms take up more size in clothes. Neglecting the fact that he is a fat blob with tits bigger than his wife's ;D
You can't flex fat my friend
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Listen to some of you guys. You aren't bodybuilders if you talk like that. I see heaps of little guys who have no clue about how to get big. They fear losing their condition so remain little guys. No way that is bodybuilding. You have to do something right for a long time to get big muscles.
The amusing thing is no one here gives a damn about my looks or health. All people are doing is revealing what they value and believe. These people fail to comprehend the search is for effective hypertrophy training, not impressing people who think big muscles are weird.
10 sets of 10 is okay but no way you can do those sets that quickly. You would have to drop weight and that is counterproductive to maximum hypertrophy. You can't get really big using light weights.
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You already got 'really big' Vince... at least around the middle and the turkey-gobbler.
perhaps at 73 it's time to drop both the safety fat and the insane ideas about having to train to failure with heavy weights.
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One thing is certain. Getbig has an endless supply of dickheads, know-it-alls, and assholes who know bugger all about hypertrophy training.
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Listen to some of you guys. You aren't bodybuilders if you talk like that. I see heaps of little guys who have no clue about how to get big. They fear losing their condition so remain little guys. No way that is bodybuilding. You have to do something right for a long time to get big muscles.
The amusing thing is no one here gives a damn about my looks or health. All people are doing is revealing what they value and believe. These people fail to comprehend the search is for effective hypertrophy training, not impressing people who think big muscles are weird.
10 sets of 10 is okay but no way you can do those sets that quickly. You would have to drop weight and that is counterproductive to maximum hypertrophy. You can't get really big using light weights.
Vince,doing the 10X10,the weight feels heavy as the sets progress.........(I realize that you are aware of this)....the point is,if it feels heavy,then it is heavy.
Your arms don`t have eyeballs,they have no clue about a couple of numbers painted onto the sides of a plate or dumbbell..........only your mind knows the numbers.
I was only trying to point out that even if you gave 10X10 a shot,you`d lose no size even if you gained none in the process,and it would be a helluva` lot easier on your joints.
I know I`m not huge,but I`m in damn good shape for a guy over 50 or for any age for that matter.
I gave up trying to be huge years ago when I realized it just wasn`t in my genetic make up.
As we age,we should be thinking about looking good,staying somewhat lean,and retaining our health.
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One thing is certain. Getbig has an endless supply of dickheads, know-it-alls, and assholes who know bugger all about hypertrophy training.
Would take one to know one.....
Imbecilic blowhard. ::)
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You can't get really big using light weights.
FACT
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Genuine advice for big man Basille:
Take 1 shot of 250 mg test enanthate weekly/bi weekly
1-2 hours of cardio 5-6 days per week
Diet
High rep/low weight resistance training
Your like one of my fat friends. He always argues when I tell him to do cardio and diet by claiming to have a better physique because his arms take up more size in clothes. Neglecting the fact that he is a fat blob with tits bigger than his wife's ;D
You can't flex fat my friend
Big man Basille,
Please see the bolded and reflect. You're getting genuine advice here. Don't be so stubborn. Your failed experiment is proof that your theories are incorrect. Listen to the advice of others for a change.
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Just an observation, ...If you were 7% bodyfat for Mr. Canada, and you are now 25% bodyfat, how will you be able to determine your bicep is "bigger" than ever before on a level playing field?
This technique is known as "changing the goalposts".
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FACT
Food will dictate size as long as tissue is broken down and adequate rest/sleep is provided.
Try training heavy as hell and eating like a bird!
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Food will dictate size as long as tissue is broken down and adequate rest/sleep is provided.
try training heavy as hell and eating like a bird!
x2 you can get bigger on pretty much any rep range if diet is good.
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yeap, food is anabolic, but you still gotta increase training loads to get bigger muscles
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yeap, food is anabolic, but you still gotta increase training loads to get bigger muscles
What happens when your strength plateus or peaks.
If strength gains were never ending ,how come we all aren`t benching tons of weight and squatting 1000 pounds?
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100% attributable to extreme masturbation......of other people.
lmfao
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Basile, tell the truth, does your office in your gym have one way windows? So you can look out but no one can see in? I'm guessing you just sit in your office all day drinking a 5th of vodka starring out at people in your gym...
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What happens when your strength plateus or peaks.
If strength gains were never ending ,how come we all aren`t benching tons of weight and squatting 1000 pounds?
then you stop growing
my superdrol just arrived today and i just popped my first cap, so we'll see how much strength and size i can gain on it
and yes, i'll have to increase my training loads to get bigger muscles, and being that superdrol is a pretty potent oral steroid i should be able to increase my training loads and thereore my strength and size on it
and the funny thing is, i'm still pretty much obessed with this idea or spot gaining on my arms and delts, so i'll really try to increase my curl, overhead tricep extension and overhead pressing loads while "maintaining" my bench and row training loads (yeah i know that's nuts, but who says that i'm sane ;D ;D ;D)
and yeah, i'll also put some effort into the squats as well
anyway, this should be an interesting experiment, coz if my lats and pecs do get bigger then i'll be eating my own words, since i won't increase their training loads
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then you stop growing
my superdrol just arrived today and i just popped my first cap, so we'll see how much strength and size i can gain on it
and yes, i'll have to increase my training loads to get bigger muscles, and being that superdrol is a pretty potent oral steroid i should be able to increase my training loads and thereore my strength and size on it
and the funny thing is, i'm still pretty much obessed with this idea or spot gaining on my arms and delts, so i'll really try to increase my curl, overhead tricep extension and overhead pressing loads while "maintaining" my bench and row training loads (yeah i know that's nuts, but who says that i'm sane ;D ;D ;D)
and yeah, i'll also put some effort into the squats as well
anyway, this should be an interesting experiment, coz if my lats and pecs do get bigger then i'll be eating my own words, since i won't increase their training loads
Good luck bud.......train hard!
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Vince, in all honesty, I genuinely do care about your health. Surely you can see that at your age bulking is crazy, so is expecting to build large amounts of muscle mass.
Seriously, you could take years off your life doing this shit. They may not be the best years but you could be missing out some great moments. A sunset, a trip to the Grand Canyon , head from a 30 yo stripper. And all for what? To make your arms look chunkier in a shirt.
Not worth it.
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Basile, tell the truth, does your office in your gym have one way windows? So you can look out but no one can see in? I'm guessing you just sit in your office all day drinking a 5th of vodka starring out at people in your gym...
LOL. I knew a gym owner who put that kind of window in his office so he could watch the girls doing aerobics.
Our office is upstairs and I seldom go there. I don't have a desk there, either, but other staff do.
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You see, Wes, if we are going to discuss hypertrophy then let's stick to it. Don't go on about how you can't get any bigger. How would you know for sure that you can't?
I used to tell some guys that they were at their peaks and wouldn't get any bigger. I was never wrong. Well, I saw them remain at the same size for months or years.
I am trying to discover if my theory of hypertrophy is correct by applying it to myself. So far I can't keep training heavy because of injuries to connective tissue or the muscle itself.
That doesn't mean my theory is false but that applying it at my age is not so easy. Sure, I regained most of my lost size quite rapidly but stalled just when I was about to exceed
former maximums. Yes, being heavier and somewhat fatter inflates the result. But I can tell you it is a thrill to measure my arms at over 18 inches.
Wes suggests 10 X 10. That is a variation of what Vince Gironda recommended. 8 X 8. The trouble is if you warm up and select a weight that allows you to do 10 reps you won't be
able to do 10 sets of 10 reps. By the third set you will be down to about 8 reps and do fewer as you proceed. Therefore to do that protocol you need to rest more in between sets.
I elect to do more reps so that by the third set I am still getting 10 or more reps. Better pump and less dangerous.
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All the semantics, verbology and theoretical B.S. aside for a moment....
Just get your bodyfat levels down into the single digits, and you can go from there.
Nothing else really matters at this point.
People see you conditioned, they aren't going to worry about your arm size or "safety fat" or injuries, lack of viable protocols, etc.
Just get in shape. You are too old to use the old school "bulking" method...obviously.
You start posting pics of a ripped physique, regardless of age, the conversation will change its face, guaranteed.
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fuck all this arm size bullshit! lose some fucking weight you fat slob!
i dont need to see your blood test results to know you've got 10 years left in your condition, i just look at pictures of your red face and protruding gut!...10 fucking years you are gone!!!!!
fucking wake up call! read this post again!
stupid 6 month nonsense of a thread about a 70 year old delusional wanting ONLY to have "big arms"
fuck me...
10 years, or even less! mark my words!
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fuck all this arm size bullshit! lose some fucking weight you fat slob!
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This is Getbig, not some swimmers' forum. Who knows how long we have in this world? Men are lucky to reach 80 and still be active and enjoy life. Yes, fat around the abdomen is not supposed to be healthy. I look in the mirror and feel okay. Photos with my shirt off are not okay. Curse those cameras.
That is stage two on the horizon. You have to understand that I really don't like lifting weights and doing all that heavy training. I like the result and the way I feel.
I agree there is a compromise and older guys shouldn't be bulking up. I am not bulking but when on a gaining program I don't want to lose much weight, either. My bodyweight is slowly coming down.
Keep up the insults to motivate me to show the flotsam!
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You have to understand that I really don't like lifting weights and doing all that heavy training.
Finally, the truth comes out. You're a lazy, old pussy.
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Finally, the truth comes out. You're a lazy, old pussy.
X2
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There is intelligence in doing the minimum for the maximum results. Contrast that with what you see in just about every gym where muscleheads train. Most repeat over and over their programs and look exactly the same year in and year out. Consistency is a wonderful thing.
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damn it vince, fuck yourself off to a doctor immediately!
your face is so red you make that shirt look white!
a picture tells a thousand words just like we were ALL CORRCT about derek anthony and your picture 110% says this:
1) you HAVE got high blood pressure
2) 1 or more of your organs are operating at a low percentage.
3) you wont see 80!
you can get away with being 30% bodyfat in your 20's and 30's, but at 70, this is stress the human body cannot handle.
snap out of your "safety fat" delusions with your excuses that you "purposely stay this weight" to save you from the fucken flu you pussy. MAN UP to your problems!
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395976.0;attach=460397;image)
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(http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/images/decorations/Guardian_Angel_played_by_Henry_Travers.jpg)
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(http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/images/decorations/Guardian_Angel_played_by_Henry_Travers.jpg)
LOL. Vince=Clarence Awesomely done! ;D
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(http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/images/decorations/Guardian_Angel_played_by_Henry_Travers.jpg)
It'll take a while for Vince to get his wings.
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Your claim was that age is no hindrance to bodybuilding. You claimed that you could exceed your level of physical conditioning and muscular size that you achieved back when you won Mr. Canada. You are in your sixth month already -- six months! -- and I see no discernible progress. If you attribute that to injuries, injuries you presumably did not have to deal with when you were younger, then that is just more real world proof that age is indeed a huge obstacle in maintaining and improving physical conditioning and muscle hypertrophy.
I am two years younger than Vince. I am here to say that age is a hindrance in maintaining and improving physical conditioning and more particularly muscle hypertrophy. At sixty-seven years of age and being retired, I have more time to devote to bodybuilding today than I have ever had before. If time was was all one needed to grow muscles, I should be in muscle heaven. Unfortunately, despite my being in generally very good health, the ravages of age have taken some toll on my ability to give weight training my all. I could go into the details, but that would just be another old man story.
What I think is important is to be the best you can be whatever your situation. I am not going to start competing anytime soon although the field is considerably narrower the older one is. The main reason I won't be a competitive bodybuilder is because I don't feel like I have to prove anything to anyone, including me. At this point, my goal is to be as healthy as I can be for a man of my age. To that end, I have embarked on gradual weight loss. This has been aided by the fact that I stopped doing TRT because of having prostate cancer. I am not going to measure my arms or anything else. Instead, I my goal is to feel good and look good in clothes....no one really wants to see an old guy in a thong anyway. LOL.
I suspect Vince is living the dream only the dream is just that and not connected to anything real. But guess what? Whatever makes him happy is what he should do. There is power in believing. Whether there is enough power to get Vince back into the kind of shape is was in as a young man is questionable. Maybe he know this and he just needs to set his goals high in order to keep pushing towards them, whether he can achieve them or not.
One great accomplishment is getting to be an old man when you are into bodybuilding. A lot of guys manage to accomplish this and too many die too young because their bodies give up on them. Probably often as a result of the shit they put their bodies through. Failed kidneys, failed hearts, and who knows what else result from all the shit guys do while chasing the dream of being bigger than the next guy. So many bodybuilders are little more than fragile wanna be superheros.
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I am two years younger than Vince. I am here to say that age is a hinderance in maintaining and improving physiclal conditioning and more particularly muscle hypertrophy. At sixty-seven years of age and being retired, I have more time to devote to bodybuilding today than I have ever had before. If time was was all one needed to grow muscles, I should be in muscle heaven. Unfortunately, despite my being in generally very good health, the ravages of age have taken some toll on my ability to give weight training my all. I could go into the details, but that would just be anothe old man story.
What I think is important is to be the best you can be whatever your situation. I am not going to start competing anytime soon although the field is considerably narrower the older one is. The main reason I won't be a competitive bodybuilder is because I don't feel like I have to prove anything to anyone, including me. At this point, my goal is to be as healthy as I can be for a man of my age. To that end, I have embarked on gradual weight loss. This has been aided by the fact that I stopped doing TRT because of having prostate cancer. I am not going to measure my arms or anything else. Instead, I my goal is to feel good and look good in clothes....no one really wants to see an old guy in a thong anyway. LOL.
I suspect Vince is living the dream only the dream is just that and not connected to anything real. But guess what? Whatever makes him happy is what he should do. There is power in believing. Whether there is enough power to get Vince back into the kind of shape is was in as a young man is questionable. Maybe he know this and he just needs to set his goals high in order to keep pushing towards them, whether he can acheive them or not.
One great accomplishment is getting to be an old man when you are into bodybuilding. A lot of guys manage to acomplish this and too many die too young because their bodies give up on them. Probably often as a result of the shit they put their bodies through. Failed kidneys, failed hearts, and who knows what else result from all the shit guys do while chasing the dream of being bigger than the next guy. So many bodybuilders are little more than fragile wanna be superheros.
nobody is giving vince shit about his goals
its the patronising way he dismisses everyones opinion that doesnt agree with his theories
and the language he uses to describe these people
he is an arrogant twat
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I am two years younger than Vince. I am here to say that age is a hinderance in maintaining and improving physiclal conditioning and more particularly muscle hypertrophy. At sixty-seven years of age and being retired, I have more time to devote to bodybuilding today than I have ever had before. If time was was all one needed to grow muscles, I should be in muscle heaven. Unfortunately, despite my being in generally very good health, the ravages of age have taken some toll on my ability to give weight training my all. I could go into the details, but that would just be anothe old man story.
What I think is important is to be the best you can be whatever your situation. I am not going to start competing anytime soon although the field is considerably narrower the older one is. The main reason I won't be a competitive bodybuilder is because I don't feel like I have to prove anything to anyone, including me. At this point, my goal is to be as healthy as I can be for a man of my age. To that end, I have embarked on gradual weight loss. This has been aided by the fact that I stopped doing TRT because of having prostate cancer. I am not going to measure my arms or anything else. Instead, I my goal is to feel good and look good in clothes....no one really wants to see an old guy in a thong anyway. LOL.
I suspect Vince is living the dream only the dream is just that and not connected to anything real. But guess what? Whatever makes him happy is what he should do. There is power in believing. Whether there is enough power to get Vince back into the kind of shape is was in as a young man is questionable. Maybe he know this and he just needs to set his goals high in order to keep pushing towards them, whether he can acheive them or not.
One great accomplishment is getting to be an old man when you are into bodybuilding. A lot of guys manage to acomplish this and too many die too young because their bodies give up on them. Probably often as a result of the shit they put their bodies through. Failed kidneys, failed hearts, and who knows what else result from all the shit guys do while chasing the dream of being bigger than the next guy. So many bodybuilders are little more than fragile wanna be superheros.
Good points.
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nobody is giving vince shit about his goals
its the patronising way he dismisses everyones opinion that doesnt agree with his theories
and the language he uses to describe these people
he is an arrogant twat
Was I saying otherwise? I didn't think so. I will say this about his attitude which does come across as arrogant on occasion; I believe he is trying to convince himself his theories work by telling others that they do. This in not uncommon for people to do. When they think or want to believe they have a good idea, they often try to convince others that they are right even when it seems obvious to those folks that they aren't.
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Was I saying otherwise? I didn't think so. I will say this about his attitude which does come across as arrogant on occasion; I believe he is trying to convince himself his theories work by telling others that they do. This in not uncommon for people to do. When they think or want to believe they have a good idea, they often try to convince others that they are right even when it seems obvious to those folks that they aren't.
i take your point
he could do that without calling other people too stupid to understand and floatsam
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Several members over at Iron Age including medical Doctors, where Basile often posts, seriously believe he is well into the first stage of senile dementia. No doubt he will try to turn back the clock to achieve the same level of dementia he had in 1970. He wil base it on having his head sore all the time.
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A while back Vince posted that back in the 1970's Frank Zane had accused him of living in fantasy land his whole life.
What a visionary Frank was, he anticipated this thread 30 years in the future.
Looks like it's not senile dementia but lifelong dementia.
He has no biceps and bingo wing triceps my old aunt sadie would have been proud of.
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Vince is also a pro photographer, but cannot take a decent pic of himself. He is afraid to take any images that make his arms look small.
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Vince is literally a die hard bodybuilder, you have to give him that. Always experimenting and striving and learning (hopefully).
On another note, Now whenever I see some hyper testosterone bloke in the gym, I think of the insecure little twink that is lurking inside.
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There is intelligence in doing the minimum for the maximum results. Contrast that with what you see in just about every gym where muscleheads train. Most repeat over and over their programs and look exactly the same year in and year out. Consistency is a wonderful thing.
x2 excellent post
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I said I thought I could still build muscle at my age and completely natural and without any supplements whatever. I am into the experiment now and completed my 4th arm workout today. Training only arms at the moment. Biceps and triceps supersets. Ending in 6 sets with the maximum resistance. Progressing rapidly which is almost scary! Mostly regaining some of my former size. I am confident I can get bigger arms than I have previouly had. Should be an interesting experiment. I will show you guys because I need a strong incentive to keep this training going. So far there is no hint of any diminished response to hypertrophy training. This is what I predicted for myself. I can't say it would be the same for everyone else. I won't even consider using any drugs or supplements. This is a purely natural experiment to show what is possible as one gets older.
Do you still stand by these quote?
As the Flotsam gets older they will realize that age is relative. 60 is not old nor is 70. However, if you are 30 then someone 60 is an old fart.
I used to think like gh15 re hypertrophy and age. That theory is false. You can build muscles naturally at any age. So a systematic program from
my long experience will guarantee me rapid gains. I have the equipment and need only the motivation to proceed. The problem is being consistent
so that rapid hypertrophy occurs and you need to train every 3rd day without fail. Each workout has to stimulate more growth. The process and
requirements are simple but the execution not so. What a pity so many here are brainwashed by hasbeen muscleheads so resort to using dangerous hormones
to build some muscle.
Well, it would take an intelligent person to be able to understand the literature in exercise science. Very difficult. I am not up to date on this nor do I have a post graduate degree in the subject.
I do know there is hardly any research in maximum human hypertrophy and no one that I know of has earned a PhD degree in the subject. In other words, the scientists are not interested in
helping bodybuilders. I don't read many books, either. I stopped reading much after seeing Zorba The Greek in 1965. Anyway, who here on Getbig is qualified to assess the intelligence of posters
from what is posted on the forums? I believe the lack of intelligence is apparent with much of the Flotsam. There hasn't been much posted by contributors re hypertrophy theory. What we find
are pseudo experts who simply know bugger all. There are some false theories circulating in bodybuilding and these prevent most from growing rapidly.
I don't do personal training. I don't work in my gym except to repair equipment.
I do know that I can still stimulate rapid hypertrophy and that this ability is actually greater than when I was training for my last contest which was in 1975. I know so much more now and have
access to superior equipment.
The more 'balonie' gh00 posts it becomes patently obvious he is NOT an expert in hypertrophy. It is easy to grow bigger muscles after 35 and even after 65. You simply have to know how to train to stimulate growth. Absolutely no hormones via tablets or injections are required.
You may recall that this post was the impetus for this very thread.
"Do you believe that you could at this point in your life equal or surpass your 1970 Mr. Canada condition?"
Absolutely! Without any doubt whatever. I met a radiographer several years ago and she commented that my body hasn't
aged much compared to other men my age. She works in a large Sydney hospital and does X-Rays on thousands of people.
I wondered if it was my decades of hypertrophy training that has helped or if it is purely heredity.
Some people are doomed not to grow much from training. In Pellius' case it is his lifestyle where he competes in martial arts
and keeps his bodyweight down to stay in lighter classes. In addition, our ageing hero probably likes to stay lean because
he gets compliments for his condition. All that activity and staying lighter goes against building large muscles. If he were less
active he would have a better chance of growing bigger. All the steroids and gh in the world won't make you bigger unless
you eat heaps of extra food. It is as if he sabotaged any hope of ever getting bigger. That is the explanation for his failure
to get bigger. His need for hormone replacement might be because of poor advice from doctors who know almost zero about
hypertrophy. I have no need for any HRT and hope I never need such treatment. To hell with pills and injections that so many rely on.
What kind of mentality is that? No thanks. gh15 is the prophet of doom here on Getbig. What he recommends is insane and I fear
too many already subscribe to that nonsense. The inmates have overrun this asylum while logical and scientific blokes like
me are ridiculed.[/color]
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This is what most believe. The content of your post reveals that you know almost nothing about advanced hypertrophy. Join the club that have no clue about how to grow rapidly.
The vast majority of guys doing what you suggest are not making any gains at all. Why is that? To me that proves there is something wrong with what you suggest. BTW, you don't need all that much protein.
Yes, but difference between you and me is that I know that I don't know anything about it, and you think you know. And where is your gain? You keep showing those pictures about your elbow, and they look like shit. If you show FB- pose like it should be shown, it look like old geezer with fat arm. Where is the point what you are trying to prove? That you are fat, and you have fat arms? Sorry to say, but we know that already..
What comes to protein, I eat 1.5 to 2 grams per kilo of the lean body weight, because it is proven that this is what is needed. You may have different opinion, but you can keep it. Why guys are not making any gains at all could be reason of many things, but mostly it is just plain and simple over training. You burn out more muscle than you can gain. That is most common reason for non existent gaining while lifting weights. Too much work, too little recovery. That's why guys like Kamali just fade a way. If we look him, he did have all the help which modern drugstore has to offer and money can buy, but not enough the grey brain matter to use it right. He burn out most of his muscles trying gain some more, and at the end he look like piece of crap. Of course there isn't just one reason if guy doesn't gain muscles by training, but that is most common one. If we look average gym rat in any country, they use at least 2 hour per day in the gym, three or five days a week. That is too much for anyone, who doesn't use gear. Plain and simple truth.
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Looks like neck and neck Basile and Goodrums arm size.
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Vincent I simply must ask. I feel compelled to ask.
Any updates?
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Any updates Vince?
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Yes, but difference between you and me is that I know that I don't know anything about it, and you think you know. And where is your gain? You keep showing those pictures about your elbow, and they look like shit. If you show FB- pose like it should be shown, it look like old geezer with fat arm. Where is the point what you are trying to prove? That you are fat, and you have fat arms? Sorry to say, but we know that already..
What comes to protein, I eat 1.5 to 2 grams per kilo of the lean body weight, because it is proven that this is what is needed. You may have different opinion, but you can keep it. Why guys are not making any gains at all could be reason of many things, but moppstly it is just plain and simple over training. You burn out more muscle than you can gain. That is most common reason for non existent gaining while lifting weights. Too much work, too little recovery. That's why guys like Kamali just fade a way. If we look him, he did have all the help which modern drugstore has to offer and money can buy, but not enough the grey brain matter to use it right. He burn out most of his muscles trying gain some more, and at the end he look like piece of crap. Of course there isn't just one reason if guy doesn't gain muscles by training, but that is most common one. If we look average gym rat in any country, they use at least 2 hour per day in the gym, three or five days a week. That is too much for anyone, who doesn't use gear. Plain and simple truth.
This is what most believe. Unfortunately most of those beliefs are false. 'Overtraining doesn't explain the lack of progress. You ingest 2 to 4 times the protein you need.
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I didn't recognize you with the black font.
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This is what most believe. Unfortunately most of those beliefs are false. 'Overtraining doesn't explaine the lack of progress. You ingest 2 to 4 times the protein you need.
Just what I figure, you are talking like you have invent bodybuilding all over again from the scratch, and everybody in the business has been wrong about everything from the beginning of the time. You are only author on this globe who has got it right, you know it for sure, but there is few minor little things between everlasting glory and yourself. A. you only have some claims, nothing concrete and B. You look like fat old man. It seem to me, that you are just delusional old jerk without any ability to prove his claims. Even there is only few reliable studies about the physics of bodybuilding, there is plenty of studies about the nutrients and just about everything else, so I am willing to believe that you don't posses any knowledge which is above those proved facts. Bodybuilding is a sport which is widely based on different kind of beliefs, which are build from little details what we have found here and there, and which seem to fit together to form absolute truth. Just like everlasting debate about the amount of the protein you have to eat go gain mass. Thumb rule based from studies is 1 to 2 grams of protein per lean kilo of bodyweight. In USA it is per lean lb of bodyweight, so it is already almost double. If you are on gear, they tell you that you can double or triple the amount, so you ending up to eat 12 grams per lean kilo of bodyweight. 1 to 2 grams is based on studies, added 10 grams is based on beliefs. This is how it works. Your theory is based on beliefs, until you have some concrete evidence to show us. Pictures about your fat elbow isn't it. When I read your rant about the subject, I face new kind of problem, because there isn't expression I know of to use to translate Finnish word "myötähäpeä". Myötähäpeä is what I feel, because you clearly believe you are right, but you are not. That word means shame shared among by others, when they see dumb ass fuck make a fool from himself. For example, if you see old geezer in the library and he has crap in his pants, you feel sorry for him but you feel also myötähäpeä. Got it?
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I didn't recognize you with the black font.
he just hung himself
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Just checking in mate. How goes the transformation? Not long before it's coming up to a year!
1
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LMFAO with this so called Getbig Experiment that never took place
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Just checking in mate. How goes the transformation? Not long before it's coming up to a year!
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He is probably happy he can still control his bladder at the moment.
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He is probably happy he can still control his bladder at the moment.
It takes Basile 30 seconds to take a piss but 5 minutes to leave the urinal
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about time we had some new elbow shots
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about time we had some new elbow shots
Well unlike some guys in this thread, I am not yet 69 years old; I am only 67. I am not making any anouncements about the way us older folks can pack on muscle. In fact, I have not even hit the gym for a couple of months and yet I feel good and think I look about the same as when I was going to the gym 6 days a week. However, I do understand how some may feel the need to convince others that they are still in the game. Bodybuilding is an addictive lifestyle. But honestly, it is better suited to younger folks. At my age, going to the gym and exercising is really all about being healthy and not being some overly muscled hunk....give me a break!
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Well unlike some guys in this thread, I am not yet 69 years old; I am only 67. I am not making any anouncements about the way us older folks can pack on muscle. In fact, I have not even hit the gym for a couple of months and yet I feel good and think I look about the same as when I was going to the gym 6 days a week. However, I do understand how some may feel the need to convince others that they are still in the game. Bodybuilding is an addictive lifestyle. But honestly, it is better suited to younger folks. At my age, going to the gym and exercising is really all about being healthy and not being some overly muscled hunk....give me a break!
Good stuff mate. I always like your posts. Wisdom from someone has lived and learned and retained enough sense to make his older age a graceful one. Vince still think he could get big and ripped and pull the 20yo old girlies down Bondi Beach.
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I took a couple of months off to prepare for a masters athletics competition. I am more interested in photography than bodybuilding or athletics. Motivation is paramount for success in bodybuilding. I still think older guys can get big but they really have to train in a different fashion to both cope with and avoid chronic injuries. Getting really big requires an extraordinary effort and lifting heavy weights. Only those who are crazy think it is worth all the effort. I may get back to training again as I enjoyed how I felt when my arms were growing.
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Melbourne is a day's drive from Sydney. Here is one of my favourite photos of my visit.
This is a panorama of several photos. The tower is mostly apartments. Great place to live. There is a
viewing level near the top.
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So one could deduct from your non-committal posts that the experiment was ... unsuccessful. Do you now admit that it was foolhardy even thinking that your formal physique (built on Dbol) was attainable at your advanced age?
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I took a couple of months off to prepare for a masters athletics competition. I am more interested in photography than bodybuilding or athletics. Motivation is paramount for success in bodybuilding. I still think older guys can get big but they really have to train in a different fashion to both cope with and avoid chronic injuries. Getting really big requires an extraordinary effort and lifting heavy weights. Only those who are crazy think it is worth all the effort. I may get back to training again as I enjoyed how I felt when my arms were growing.
Yes, it is an effort to get big and stay that way. It takes hard and consistent training, but this you know as well as anyone. I'm also not sure about your 'crazy' comment since you've been a bodybuilder for over 50 years. Did you spend your life being crazy? The only crazy thing in my opinion would be is to make bodybuilding your life instead of making it PART of your life.
You don't have the will or discipline any more. The dream is over for you. And so it should be. Enjoy your old age, hobbies and friends. I'm happy that you stopped chasing this crazy theory as it was doomed from the start. All you can do now is to follow a light regimen with as much cardio as you can stand and light weights. You'll feel better and save yourself the risk of injury.
Either way, well done for proving that it DOESN'T work.
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You look like fat old man. It seem to me, that you are just delusional old jerk without any ability to prove his claims. Myötähäpeä is what I feel, because you clearly believe you are right, but you are not. That word means shame shared among by others, when they see dumb ass fuck make a fool from himself. For example, if you see old geezer in the library and he has crap in his pants, you feel sorry for him but you feel also myötähäpeä. Got it?
Well thats a pretty brutal but accurate summing up I think.
Unfortunately Vince won't care. He is a wind up artist (or troll in todays language) of the first order. He loves getting a rise out of everyone on here. Total piss taker and everyone falls for it. He's a comedy genius ;D
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I am amusing most of the time. However, I never make jokes about hypertrophy or gym equipment.
It is crazy to lift heavy weights and try to look good for other blokes. After all these years this reality is obvious to me. That takes a bit of the motivation away from looking muscular. Women like a fit guy but don't seem turned on by musclemen. That is the way it has always been. Oh, yes, there are some women who fancy big, muscular men but they are few and far between.
When I had chronic pain in my forearms that put a dent in my training. Just to do cardio and look like a swimmer doesn't interest me in the slightest. I do hiking around carrying a lot of photography equipment and that is about as fit as I get. I proved that I can still grow rapidly but because of past injuries it is tricky overcoming them and getting bigger than ever. It is still possible but it will take me longer and that sort of spoils the whole project. Young guys think they know it all and many on this thread give me advices. What a joke. After 54 years training I hardly need to be lectured by anyone. I don't know everything about training but who does on this forum? Most of the guys here can't even be man enough to post under their real names and show their faces in photos. That is rather pathetic but it does take courage to be oneself on Getbig.
So the experiment is incomplete. I never got around to doing stage two where I would train other bodyparts.
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One thing I wish Vince would do is to chronicle bodybuilding the last 50 years. He truly does seem to have a encyclopedic memory when it comes to names, placings, etc. Tell the stories us young guys never got to hear or never got to read. How the sport evolved, regimens, drug protocols, etc. The characters. The contests. To my knowledge no such work exists. Vince would be an ideal person to write such a book.
However, it's a shame you'll never do since that's a good way to leave your mark in a sport you've loved and been involved in your whole life.
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I am amusing most of the time. However, I never make jokes about hypertrophy or gym equipment.
It is crazy to lift heavy weights and try to look good for other blokes. After all these years this reality is obvious to me. That takes a bit of the motivation away from looking muscular. Women like a fit guy but don't seem turned on by musclemen. That is the way it has always been. Oh, yes, there are some women who fancy big, muscular men but they are few and far between.
When I had chronic pain in my forearms that put a dent in my training. Just to do cardio and look like a swimmer doesn't interest me in the slightest. I do hiking around carrying a lot of photography equipment and that is about as fit as I get. I proved that I can still grow rapidly but because of past injuries it is tricky overcoming them and getting bigger than ever. It is still possible but it will take me longer and that sort of spoils the whole project. Young guys think they know it all and many on this thread give me advices. What a joke. After 54 years training I hardly need to be lectured by anyone. I don't know everything about training but who does on this forum? Most of the guys here can't even be man enough to post under their real names and show their faces in photos. That is rather pathetic but it does take courage to be oneself on Getbig.
So the experiment is incomplete. I never got around to doing stage two where I would train other bodyparts.
No I'm pretty sure you concluded that it's not possible to regain your 1970 condition. Us Flotsam knew this at the start. It IS however possible to improve tremendously at ANY age but it gets harder. I'm 31 and it's already harder from when I was 18.
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Biggest self owning ever, if not it had been clear to all of getbig from the start except of Vince.
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Biggest self owning ever, if not it had been clear to all of getbig from the start except of Vince.
X2
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I am almost as old as Vince. Unlike him, I was never a competitive bodybuilder....just a fellow who likes to be in shape and healthy. My inspiration to bodybuild was because as a teenager, I was rail thin and wanted to get bigger. Eventually, I achieved this. Having done that, I realized that it changed nothing about who I was, just how I looked to others. I have stayed with bodybuilding, continuing to work out today, even today at 67 years old. Thanks to this and being sensible about diet and exercise, I enjoy really excellent health for the most part. I no long desire to be "big" though, just being fit is good for me.
There is a fellow who works out at the same gym I do who is probably in his 50's. He's pretty huge and definitely works out heavy. What is interesting is to watch him move. He appears to be in constant pain. Obviously, something is not working right. I suspect he is trying workout like he did when he was young and it is just plain abusive to his body. This really seem counterproductive. He's a model for what folks shouldn't do.
Vince made a couple of good points. Most women aren't turned on by big muscles, they like men who look fit. Secondly, a person can add muscle even if they are a senior citizen, if they are willing to do what it takes to accomplish this. And sometimes it just takes too much and simply isn't healthy or wise. Big arms are nice, but they aren't worth having ruined joints. Obviously, Vince has seen the light now.
My rule of thumb is to not offer workout advice unless someone asked me for it.
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gud stuff man keep it up
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I am almost as old as Vince. Unlike him, I was never a competitive bodybuilder....just a fellow who likes to be in shape and healthy. My inspiration to bodybuild was because as a teenager, I was rail thin and wanted to get bigger. Eventually, I achieved this. Having done that, I realized that it changed nothing about who I was, just how I looked to others. I have stayed with bodybuilding, continuing to work out today, even today at 67 years old. Thanks to this and being sensible about diet and exercise, I enjoy really excellent health for the most part. I no long desire to be "big" though, just being fit is good for me.
There is a fellow who works out at the same gym I do who is probably in his 50's. He's pretty huge and definitely works out heavy. What is interesting is to watch him move. He appears to be in constant pain. Obviously, something is not working right. I suspect he is trying workout like he did when he was young and it is just plain abusive to his body. This really seem counterproductive. He's a model for what folks shouldn't do.
Vince made a couple of good points. Most women aren't turned on by big muscles, they like men who look fit. Secondly, a person can add muscle even if they are a senior citizen, if they are willing to do what it takes to accomplish this. And sometimes it just takes too much and simply isn't healthy or wise. Big arms are nice, but they aren't worth having ruined joints. Obviously, Vince has seen the light now.
My rule of thumb is to not offer workout advice unless someone asked me for it.
Primemuscle I'm curious what sort of workouts you usually do at your age? Being fit at 67 is impressive.
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Primemuscle I'm curious what sort of workouts you usually do at your age? Being fit at 67 is impressive.
I bore easily. Therefore, variety in routines is what keeps me working out and staying fit. One thing I have discovered is that my recovery time takes longer. If I am working out heavy, I work each muscle group once per week with the exception of calves. I limit my total workout time to never more than an hour, not counting cardio which I sometimes do post weights and other times pre weights. This routine is six days a week. It may seem like a lot of days, but then I am retired and have the time.
I never lift if I don't feel well, which is rare. Every so often, I take time off completely from going to the gym for a week or two....sometimes longer.
Sometimes I will do a more usual split routine and go lighter with fewer days per week. I've found for me that just showing up at the gym is all it takes to stay engaged. Fortunately, the gym where I go has an olympic sized pool....so if nothing else strikes me, I can always swim laps for a half hour or so.
I am not a fanatic when it comes to diet. I try to eat reasonably healthy most of the time. Today, I craved a % Guys hamburger and fries for lunch. This is a rare occurrence. Sometimes I take Creatine and most of the time I add meals by drinking protein drinks because eating five times a day gets boring. For most of my life I tended to be rather thin unless I ate a lot. That's changed since I retired. Not that I am fat, but I am holding at 197 lbs. @ 5' 11". The most I've weighed for more than a day is 225 lbs. The least I've weighed in the past ten years is 180 lbs. I feel like I look too thin at 180.
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I am amusing most of the time. However, I never make jokes about hypertrophy or gym equipment.
It is crazy to lift heavy weights and try to look good for other blokes. After all these years this reality is obvious to me. That takes a bit of the motivation away from looking muscular. Women like a fit guy but don't seem turned on by musclemen. That is the way it has always been. Oh, yes, there are some women who fancy big, muscular men but they are few and far between.
When I had chronic pain in my forearms that put a dent in my training. Just to do cardio and look like a swimmer doesn't interest me in the slightest. I do hiking around carrying a lot of photography equipment and that is about as fit as I get. I proved that I can still grow rapidly but because of past injuries it is tricky overcoming them and getting bigger than ever. It is still possible but it will take me longer and that sort of spoils the whole project. Young guys think they know it all and many on this thread give me advices. What a joke. After 54 years training I hardly need to be lectured by anyone. I don't know everything about training but who does on this forum? Most of the guys here can't even be man enough to post under their real names and show their faces in photos. That is rather pathetic but it does take courage to be oneself on Getbig.
So the experiment is incomplete. I never got around to doing stage two where I would train other bodyparts.
So if your superior methods and hi tech equipment doesn't work at all, you quit and start to do something complete different? In same situation, and I have been there plenty of times, I admit to myself that I have been wrong and learn to do it right. Unlike you, I learn more every day, because I know that I don't know everything like you do ;D
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As an engineer I know there are often many solutions to problems. I was discussing the soreness in my forearms with a gym member and saw instantly that it was the pronation of the wrists that caused the pain when heavy resistance was used in the lying triceps extension exercise. I have modified a Nautilus triceps machine and this can be used without having to pronate my wrists. So I can resume training my arms and avoid the pain that occurred recently.
Losing body fat while retaining sufficient muscle size is a real challenge for 69+ year old bodybuilders.
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As an engineer I know there are often many solutions to problems. I was discussing the soreness in my forearms with a gym member and saw instantly that it was the pronation of the wrists that caused the pain when heavy resistance was used in the lying triceps extension exercise. I have modified a Nautilus triceps machine and this can be used without having to pronate my wrists. So I can resume training my arms and avoid the pain that occurred recently.
Losing body fat while retaining sufficient muscle size is a real challenge for 69+ year old bodybuilders.
At the start of this thread you were very vocal about qualifications with regards to hypertrophy training and how someone needs to gain a PHD in that discipline before entering into debate with you regarding training.
Vincent, are you a qualified engineer?
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At the start of this thread you were very vocal about qualifications with regards to hypertrophy training and how someone needs to gain a PHD in that discipline before entering into debate with you regarding training.
Vincent, are you a qualified engineer?
He's a qualified retard.
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DK you join Bob C, Chimp, and many others on Getbig as certified assholes. Congratulations.
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DK you join Bob C, Chimp, and many others on Getbig as certified assholes. Congratulations.
I disagree.
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I disagree.
so are you saying that none of those dudes are assholes?
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Losing body fat while retaining sufficient muscle size is a real challenge for 69+ year old bodybuilders.
But earlier in this thread, the challenge you set yourself was to match your Mr Canada winning condition in 1853.
We all told you it was impossible at your age, yet here you are finally agreeing to the same thing.
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But earlier in this thread, the challenge you set yourself was to match your Mr Canada winning condition in 1853.
We all told you it was impossible at your age, yet here you are finally agreeing to the same thing.
It's not impossible. Look at a guy like Stallone. He is maybe 5 years younger than Vince? It all about what lengths you are willing to go.
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The legs of Bernie Cooper who is now 66 years old.
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The legs of Bernie Cooper who is now 66 years old.
Exactly my point. It depends on how far you want to go. It seems that Vince is content with being a Flotsam fella.
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yea but it was clear to all of us the methods vince was using were not going to acheive that goal.
It's not impossible. Look at a guy like Stallone. He is maybe 5 years younger than Vince? It all about what lengths you are willing to go.
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yea but it was clear to all of us the methods vince was using were not going to acheive that goal.
You are right about that. Driving a white van for 20 hours a day, would be catabolic.
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I disagree.
x2 all great posters
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You are right about that. Driving a white van for 20 hours a day, would be catabolic.
lolz...At least he would have plenty of simple sugars on hand in the form of FREE CANDY for when he boots his insulin.
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Coming up to a year soon Vince. Any thoughts to share after 12 months of doing this?
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The legs of Bernie Cooper who is now 66 years old.
really impressive.
BTW, steroids work on little girls, too.......
just sayin.....
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really impressive.
BTW, steroids work on little girls, too.......
just sayin.....
that's true, but you still gotta put in the hard work and be blessed with the proper genetics
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Bodybuilding is the muscle.
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As an engineer I know there are often many solutions to problems. I was discussing the soreness in my forearms with a gym member and saw instantly that it was the pronation of the wrists that caused the pain when heavy resistance was used in the lying triceps extension exercise. I have modified a Nautilus triceps machine and this can be used without having to pronate my wrists. So I can resume training my arms and avoid the pain that occurred recently.
Losing body fat while retaining sufficient muscle size is a real challenge for 69+ year old bodybuilders.
Jesus H Fucking Christ...cut the crao already.
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Any update pics Vince?
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Any update pics Vince?
Vince is on a road trip, visiting kindergartens all over the country, teaching basic moral values to the future male fitness models.
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(http://i39.tinypic.com/15xpmas.jpg)
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(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9965/biggut.jpg)
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you realize you look just like any old fat person who never lifted a weight in his life right basile?
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(http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4709007234893236)
(http://unitedgangs.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/piru.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_moDkM2GCEuQ/Satg2_uj3oI/AAAAAAAAAvA/XoqumfCZh-k/s400/2.jpg)
(http://www.whudat.com/news/images/paul-pierce-piru-blood-gang-sign.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=291306.0;attach=331251;image)
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(http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4709007234893236)
(http://unitedgangs.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/piru.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_moDkM2GCEuQ/Satg2_uj3oI/AAAAAAAAAvA/XoqumfCZh-k/s400/2.jpg)
(http://www.whudat.com/news/images/paul-pierce-piru-blood-gang-sign.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=291306.0;attach=331251;image)
;D
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false