The Getbig experiment. Training photo at 69.

[dyslexic]

vince what if you can't get sore?  literally, no matter what i do, i can't get sore on some muscles (biceps, for example).

If you really believe this nonsense, and you have been trying everything under the sun...


Do this first: Take a break.

[Secret Stack]

Vince, you have kind of dodged the obvious ever since it was brought up, so I will ask you directly...

do you now acknowledge the fact that to, quote: "match the arm size of my 1970 physique" that you will need to be in that same body fat%?

A reminder that building your arms to the same tap measurement in your current bf% (20+% ?) to that of the bf% seen in your 1970 pictures is NO comparison.

If you can acknowledge this without a defensive rant like I have just said something about your children, that would be great.

Then I ask, quote: "I will show all of you"

"show all of you" WHAT, exactly?

Lessen your "experiment" and the ego and you will gain the same respect.

[DK II]

Did not read your bullshit, but you really look great in that shot, what was your cycle, training and diet then?

Bump for answers.

[Vince B]

Look, I am a bodybuilder so of course I will be in a similar condition to what I was in 70 and 75. That might be more difficult than getting similar size. Since turning 50 I discovered that I lost muscle first when I dieted. In 1970 I lost 20 pounds bodyweight in 2 weeks. No way I could accomplish that today. So, yes, it sucks getting old. Vision, hearing, tanning ability, strength, libido and hair diminish. Goodness knows what else in on the decline. So it is nice to know hypertrophy can still occur. That really is a gift from our ancestors.

[Secret Stack]

I will be in a similar condition to what I was in 70 and 75.

How long do you give yourself to be in the same bf% and same arm size as the 1970 pics?

[DK II]

Look, I am a bodybuilder so of course I will be in a similar condition to what I was in 70 and 75. That might be more difficult than getting similar size. Since turning 50 I discovered that I lost muscle first when I dieted. In 1970 I lost 20 pounds bodyweight in 2 weeks. No way I could accomplish that today. So, yes, it sucks getting old. Vision, hearing, tanning ability, strength, libido and hair diminish. Goodness knows what else in on the decline. So it is nice to know hypertrophy can still occur. That really is a gift from our ancestors.

answer my question, please.

[BB]

Bump for answers.

I'm curious too. Vince, you look very good there.

[pellius]

Very though provoking post. This is the Vince I like. Just being around for as long as you have and keeping your eyes and ears open you pick up some things. Things worth listening to.

[pellius]

For a 70s physique, if Basile hadn't been too great a pussy and do more steroids, he could have really gone somewhere.

Actually, it's when Dr. Walczak realized that Vince wasn't going to go ghey for him.

[DK II]

Actually, it's when Dr. Walczak realized that Vince wasn't going to go ghey for him.

 

[Vince B]

Mike lost interest in helping me after I invited him home for dinner.....to meet my wife. Actually, I was more interested in getting help for acne. I won a title and that was enough. I didn't particularly want to take huge risks just for another title and trophy. Looking back now it all seems rather shallow and without merit but I guess I am glad I did it. In those days there was just one title holder unlike today when all manner of class winners can claim the title. There is no one Mr Australia any more. Lots of guys can claim that title....natural and untested.

I really wanted to live in Los Angeles and have a go there. My ex couldn't work in California as a nurse and I didn't want to go to Texas. In retrospect, I guess I made a good decision to emigrate to Australia. It suits me down here although the men don't befriend foreigners. Thank goodness the women here actually prefer guys from overseas. Black dudes have a field day in Australia.

[Vince B]

Did not read your bullshit, but you really look great in that shot, what was your cycle, training and diet then?

In 1975 I trained for the Mr Australia contest in Melbourne. I challenged Robert Nailon so had to compete. I took 2 Dianabol per day for several months with breaks between bottles. I think I used
200 tablets all up.
I trained bodyparts twice per week but didn't take supplements. I had trouble gaining weight because I was a full time PE teacher and I ran my gym every night until 9 pm. I would workout
for half an hour each session after the gym closed. I never trained while members were in the gym. I literally had to force feed myself to put on weight. I was about 220 pounds before I dieted down. I am two
weeks out in that photo and was weighing about 205 pounds. I competed at about 190. Someone stole the slides from the contest so I don't have any photos of me competing. Arnold and
Paul Graham put me last and I have a letter that proves they fixed the contest. What dickheads both those jerks were.

I was quite strong then and did a standing press with 270 pounds. I benched 400 while weighing 200 pounds just before the contest.

[DK II]

In 1975 I trained for the Mr Australia contest in Melbourne. I challenged Robert Nailon so had to compete. I took 2 Dianabol per day for several months with breaks between bottles. I think I used
200 tablets all up.
I trained bodyparts twice per week but didn't take supplements. I had trouble gaining weight because I was a full time PE teacher and I ran my gym every night until 9 pm. I would workout
for half an hour each session. I never trained while members were in the gym. I literally had to force feed myself to put on weight. I was about 220 pounds before I dieted down. I am two
weeks out in that photo and was weighing about 205 pounds. I competed at about 190. Someone stole the slides from the contest so I don't have any photos of me competing. Arnold and
Paul Graham put me last and I have a letter that proves they fixed the contest. What dickheads both those jerks were.

I was quite strong then and did a standing presss with 270 pounds. I benched 400 while weighing 200 pounds just before the contest.

Props, looks really good.

[dj181]

I am training only arms at the moment. I discovered that the whole upper body improves when I do this.

Really? I did my own little arm experiment a few months back, and I basically only trained arms and delts (via. side raises) and my arms and delts did grow a bit, but I had absolutely no growth in my torso ie. chest and back. My arms went from 14 and 3/4 inches to 15 and 3/8 inches.

Recently I've been doing a standard routine of squats, rows, and benches, and my torso and legs have gotten bigger, but my arms got smaller and they are now back down to 14 and 3/4 inches So basically what I learned is that the muscles need direct stimulation in order to grow, at least in my experience.

Anyways, good luck with your experiment and thanks for the feedback about AJ and the Mentzers.

[Figo]

I took 2 Dianabol per day

you look very good in pic, is that '75?

were the dbols 50mg?

[dyslexic]

Post that *letter*

[DK II]

you look very good in pic, is that '75?

were the dbols 50mg?

 

[Primemuscle]

I am having a go but I swear I am taking it easy because as I get stronger the aches and pains start appearing. I don't want an injury so am proceeding cautiously. I started out with 15 reps with 5 plates in the lying triceps extensions and am now doing more reps with 7 plates. Not bad for a couple of weeks hitting the iron. I was sick for almost a week so my arm workouts have been on the 4th day. I was reading what Bruce Randall said about training arms and he felt he could train his every day and make gains. Well, those days of fast recovery are long gone for me. I go partly by how my joints and connective tissue are feeling and train accordingly. Not the best feedback but there you are. This is a bold experiment even by Getbig standards. When I have something positive to report I will post it here.

How you feel is actually the best measure of what you should be doing with your workouts. So, in my opinion, that is the best feedback. No one else can feel what your body feels. Stay in touch when those feelings and train accordingly and you should be fine. I will say that most mature folks I know who work out believe that it does take longer to recover than it did when they were younger. I know that my body responds well to the routine I am doing where I give myself a whole week to recover before repeating an exercise.

Earlier this year, I was feeling some shoulder pain in my left shoulder. I dropped the weight down some and upped the reps, plus adding more warm ups on delt day and eventually the shoulder pain subsided. I must be doing something right since I have never had a major injury, nor have I ever had any surgeries....knee, shoulder or otherwise.

-Caught a cold from my grandson this week. This is day four of the frigging cold. Have not been to the gym since Monday in order to concerve all my energy to wipe out this virus. I am hoping I can work out today. This sitting around, blowing my nose and coughing is getting me down! Been popping Cold-Eeze every two hours, extra zinc and vitamin C in the mornings and evenings. Either the cold dies or I do. LOL! Lost about five pounds....I always lose weight when I am not working out.

[Vince B]

Good old Dianabol. As far as I know the tablets were standard Ciba 5mg each. In the early 70s guys would ask mates if they could get some gear. In Sydney nothing much happened if you didn't know the right people. Eventually a gym member called Chicken Legs said he got his from a pharmacist at Kings Cross. The pharmacist was Asian. When I visited his pharmacy he said, "People walk up and down Kings Cross all night long looking for Dianabol!" You have to say that with an Asian accent to get the effect. Other guys went to see a Sports Medicine Clinic at Lewisham because Dr Tony Miller was sympathetic to those using steroids and would usually supervise them while prescribing the drugs. An associate got into trouble in later decades because the muscleheads were going to him and telling him what to get them. This included Vet products. The Royal Commission blasted the good doctor on two points. Prescribing drugs for people who were not ill and for prescribing Vet products for humans. Naughty doctor. His excuse was that the muscleheads were going to take them anyway and it was preferable that they be supervised and also get the proper products. In truth, the doctor should have been congratulated. Instead, they followed the USA and banned these products. They still haven't banned Botox and other procedures that are prescribed for people who are not sick. How in the hell did breast reduction get okayed by the medical profession?

My ex has the letter proving that Arnold and Paul Graham fixed the 1975 Mr Australia so that I would come last. I have asked for it a couple of times but she claims she can't be bothered looking for it. One of the annoying things about being divorced. She packed all my books and magazines in about 20 big boxes that I have yet to unpack. That was over 11 years ago! I recommend that sensible people have contracts lasting only 3 years for a marriage. Never buy anything jointly but one or the other owns whatever is bought. Easy to split property if you separate. Your motto should always be: Trust in God, but tie your camel. In other words, you can't trust human beings and definitely not ginas.

[Vince B]

About this idea of going by how you feel. What does that mean? Many things and maybe nothing much at all. Sometimes you feel like Hercules only to be flat in the workout. On other days you feel like crap but have a great workout. The little aches and pains in the muscles and connective tissue are trickier to assess. When you consider that a stimulating workout causes micro-damage in muscle fibres then of course your muscles are going to feel injured after working out. The connective tissue takes a beating, too. You get to recognize the sharp, acute pain that signals a muscle tear. When that happens you stop training right then and there. Other niggling little pains are harder to assess. Before I tore my right biceps doing a heavy deadlift with 509 pounds I used to get sore on the inside of the elbow just below the biceps. This would happen when I was teaching PE and I could get sore after throwing javelins or even footballs or softballs. I would have to fill the sink with warm to hot water until the pain subsided. So maybe I had accumulated all manner of small injuries in my biceps and that became a weak link. Of course, my hand grip was palm upwards for the right hand for that heavy deadlift and the muscle tore in two. Well, I now have a Unicep because the supinating link has gone. There was a gap there and I had surgery a couple of years later but it was too late and nothing could be done. That is why I tell knuckleheads never do heavy deadlifts. I can see absolutely no point in doing them. Use other exercises. If you insist on doing them then keep your palms facing your body and never the other way around. Dorian Yates tore a biceps but I don't know the details. No doubt he was lifting some heavy iron to cause that tear. Many guys have blown pecs with really heavy bench presses. If you do explosive benches with over 450 pounds you are asking for trouble. Do sets of 10 to 15 reps and you should be okay.

[Primemuscle]

About this idea of going by how you feel. What does that mean?....

Clearly, you know what it means. You can't be as intune with your body as you seem to be without knowing. It is simply learning to pay attention to what your body tells you....there will always be folks who ignore all the signs and end up doing damage. You've been there. You know better....or you should.

As for your other post. I have past and positive experience with D-bol. However, I was under a legitimate doctor's care when I was prescribed D-bol and initially weekly booster testosterone shots. The last time I went on a short cycle of D-bol was about fifteen years ago and I bought it over the Internet. Never-the-less, I still only took the low dose my doctor had previously prescribed me (5 mg a day). This was enough to jump start my gains but not enough to turn me into a freak.

I don't have experience with divorce. I've only been married once and am still married to the same woman after nearly 47 years. Can't imagine we will be getting a divorce anytime soon. It must be the shits when one goes though a divorce. However, a lot of our books and other stuff is in boxes in the attic too. This summer, our daughter and grandson moved home while her husband is deployed to Afghanistan. We packed up the bookcases in the loft to make room for their stuff.

[Vince B]

Clearly, you know what it means. You can't be as intune with your body as you seem to be without knowing. It is simply learning to pay attention to what your body tells you....there will always be folks who ignore all the signs and end up doing damage. You've been there. You know better....or you should.

I never joke when I discuss bodybuilding or gym equipment. I can joke when discussing some bodybuilders, however.

Just when is a muscle injured or is the damage indicative of hypertrophy? I honestly don't know the answer. Since I tore my right biceps I get little sharp pains from time to time. Like yesterday when I did my first set of biceps curls on the converted Nautilus Biceps machine. I turn my palms sideways so that I do mostly Brachialis and not biceps. If I put my palms facing upwards I get sharp pains. Yesterday I got those sharp pains in the right biceps. Usually I would stop. Because of this experiment I decided to do another light set. Thankfully, the pain dissipated and I got to workout using my usual resistance in the final sets.

I often have sharp pain in my elbows from time to time. Especially if I accidentally put pressure on the elbows lying down on a bed.

What I am saying is that pain can appear now and then that signals some damage to tissue somewhere in that bodypart. What exactly is damaged and by how much can't always be known. What we don't want is to ignor little signals that might preceed major tears. All I can say is that I get more pain the bigger I get because I am using heavier weight and I have to make a bigger effort to complete the last couple of reps for many sets. I don't reduce the resistance. This is a severe way to train. That could partly be why the rest of my upper body responds and grows a bit, too.

[pellius]

Why did Paul and Arnold want you to place last? Also, is the "Paul" you speak of one of the person's Arnold shakes hands with in the beginning of Pumping Iron?

[Chick]

Why did Paul and Arnold want you to place last? Also, is the "Paul" you speak of one of the person's Arnold shakes hands with in the beginning of Pumping Iron?

They had this weird notion of placing the physiques in order from best to worst....go figure.

[Primemuscle]

I never joke when I discuss bodybuilding or gym equipment. I can joke when discussing some bodybuilders, however.

Just when is a muscle injured or is the damage indicative of hypertrophy? I honestly don't know the answer. Since I tore my right biceps I get little sharp pains from time to time. Like yesterday when I did my first set of biceps curls on the converted Nautilus Biceps machine. I turn my palms sideways so that I do mostly Brachialis and not biceps. If I put my palms facing upwards I get sharp pains. Yesterday I got those sharp pains in the right biceps. Usually I would stop. Because of this experiment I decided to do another light set. Thankfully, the pain dissipated and I got to workout using my usual resistance in the final sets.

I often have sharp pain in my elbows from time to time. Especially if I accidentally put pressure on the elbows lying down on a bed.

What I am saying is that pain can appear now and then that signals some damage to tissue somewhere in that bodypart. What exactly is damaged and by how much can't always be known. What we don't want is to ignor little signals that might preceed major tears. All I can say is that I get more pain the bigger I get because I am using heavier weight and I have to make a bigger effort to complete the last couple of reps for many sets. I don't reduce the resistance. This is a severe way to train. That could partly be why the rest of my upper body responds and grows a bit, too.

-Never thought you were joking. Perhaps some folks are either more in touch with their bodies response to stressors or they are simply more reactive to those little unknowns, such as some of the pain you describe. I know the difference between my muscles feeling a little sore and my having done some more serious damage to them. However, I should be really clear that I am not now nor have I ever been inclined to test my bodies ability to withstand excessive stressors (weights). At least with lifting, I am patient enough to slowly progress and hopefully make some gains along the way. My goal is to simply look and be fit. You clearly have bigger goals than that.