“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government"

[garebear]

what you straw and 240 dont seem to grasp is that simply b/c a govt has taken these rights away does not mean they do not stem from God.

Just b/c a govt has taken the right away doesnt mean the rights come from the govt. Thats why ppl argue and fight back...

If they came from govt then what right do we have to react negatively to anything?

Is deomocracy natural?

[Straw Man]

what you straw and 240 dont seem to grasp is that simply b/c a govt has taken these rights away does not mean they do not stem from God.

Just b/c a govt has taken the right away doesnt mean the rights come from the govt. Thats why ppl argue and fight back...

If they came from govt then what right do we have to react negatively to anything?

what rights are you referring to specifically?

the life, liberty, pursuit of happiness thing or something else or more?

[Soul Crusher]

Is deomocracy natural?

We don't have a democracy.   We have a constitutional republic , not that you ignorant, incompetent, idiotic, and illiterate leftists care one bit.

[tonymctones]

what rights are you referring to specifically?

the life, liberty, pursuit of happiness thing or something else or more?

sure...

and you will say something about slaves or women...

and I will say that the fact ppl fought for their rights is proof that they arent based in govt.

If that was so, why would ppl feel they had the ability to rebel?

I mean if our rights are based in govt then there is nothing higher then govt....

[Straw Man]

sure...

and you will say something about slaves or women...

and I will say that the fact ppl fought for their rights is proof that they arent based in govt.

If that was so, why would ppl feel they had the ability to rebel?

I mean if our rights are based in govt then there is nothing higher then govt....

life came from my parents and not god so that one is out (if you believe in God and think your life came from god then that's certainly your choice)

liberty depends on where you live so i guess if you believe God chose the place where you were born then maybe he chose to give you liberty too

pursuit of happiness - that has more to do with the time and the means so again, I don't see how God factors into that either 

At what point do I get to give credit to myself for my ability to pursuit happiness?

[Soul Crusher]

life came from my parents and not god so that one is out (if you believe in God and think your life came from god then that's certainly your choice)

liberty depends on where you live so i guess if you believe God chose the place where you were born then maybe he chose to give you liberty too

pursuit of happiness - that has more to do with the time and the means so again, I don't see how God factors into that either 

At what point do I get to give credit to myself for my ability to pursuit happiness?

Jesus Christ are you fucking ignorant of our history.   No wonder you are an Obama drone.

[tonymctones]

life came from my parents and not god so that one is out (if you believe in God and think your life came from god then that's certainly your choice)

liberty depends on where you live so i guess if you believe God chose the place where you were born then maybe he chose to give you liberty too

pursuit of happiness - that has more to do with the time and the means so again, I don't see how God factors into that either  

At what point do I get to give credit to myself for my ability to pursuit happiness?

again you want to point out situations where ppl or govt have limited those rights and say "this proves that they arent based in God"

this doesnt hold water, this just highlights the fact they are based from God.

Life, as in the beginning came from God so any life that stems from that stems from God

Liberty is often limited by Govt but that doesnt mean that the basis for liberty is not God. Again your trying to point to situations where govt/man limits liberty and say see b/c we can take it away it means its not from God, this is ignorant and uses shitty logic.

[tonymctones]

At what point do I get to give credit to myself for my ability to pursuit happiness?

Or, as I've said many times, atheism is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.

give yourself credit for acting on opportunities youve seen and capitalized on is fine in the context that those rights came from God.

[240 is Back]

Read the bible, that will give a pretty good idea of where God stands.

A book written by man, right?

Look, I believe in a higher power, but everything we read about that higher power ws written by fallible men like us. Who stole candy from friends.  Who jerked off in the shower.  Who were jealous and normal and everything just like the rest of us.

If a govt takes away our rights, its fucked up - but it's only fucked up by a set of standards written by men.  Ya follow?


By "god's law" - completely natural - big MFers would kill small MFers and take their womenfolk on a daily basis.  There would be no inherent right to life, liberty, or anything else.  Isn't God's actual law - the one we've had for 1 million years of humanity until only a few thousand years ago - pretty much darwinish?  lol, survivlal of the fittest?  

This whole "it's illegal to kill and rob others" is something man invented, champ.

[Straw Man]

again you want to point out situations where ppl or govt have limited those rights and say "this proves that they arent based in God"

this doesnt hold water, this just highlights the fact they are based from God.
Life, as in the beginning came from God so any life that stems from that stems from God

Liberty is often limited by Govt but that doesnt mean that the basis for liberty is not God. Again your trying to point to situations where govt/man limits liberty and say see b/c we can take it away it means its not from God, this is ignorant and uses shitty logic.

doesn't mean that it comes from god either

why don't you prove there is God first before you try to prove such things and liberty and the ability to pursuit happiness come from god

[tonymctones]

A book written by man, right?

Look, I believe in a higher power, but everything we read about that higher power ws written by fallible men like us. Who stole candy from friends.  Who jerked off in the shower.  Who were jealous and normal and everything just like the rest of us.

If a govt takes away our rights, its fucked up - but it's only fucked up by a set of standards written by men.  Ya follow?


By "god's law" - completely natural - big MFers would kill small MFers and take their womenfolk on a daily basis.  There would be no inherent right to life, liberty, or anything else.  Isn't God's actual law - the one we've had for 1 million years of humanity until only a few thousand years ago - pretty much darwinish?  lol, survivlal of the fittest?  

This whole "it's illegal to kill and rob others" is something man invented, champ.

and the reason man "invented" it?

b/c we knew it was inherintly wrong cracker jack...

why is it inherintly wrong?

[tonymctones]

doesn't mean that it comes from god either

why don't you prove there is God first before you try to prove such things and liberty and the ability to pursuit happiness come from god

I have plenty of proof God exists, is it proof enough for you...no but my sense is nothing short of God talking to you personally would not do it.

So now that you cant stand on the, "if govt can take it away it proves its from govt" leg were down to the proof of God argument?

why dont you prove God doesnt exist?

[240 is Back]

and the reason man "invented" it?

b/c we knew it was inherintly wrong cracker jack...

why is it inherintly wrong?

how did we "know" it all of a sudden?

Is it just that those in charge realized they could have more money/food/sex/whatever by teaching religion and school to the masses - so they could be taxed?

I mean, human beings have been here one million years.  It is only in the last 2000 or 3000 that we made murder illegal, for pete's sake.

God would allow anything to kill anything for any reason for 5 billion years of life, and one million years of people - then suddenly 2000 years ago, he CHANGES his plan?

Sorry, but every law, every right, every constraint outside of a free-for-all is MANMADE.  period.  Not even debatable.

[Straw Man]

I have plenty of proof God exists, is it proof enough for you...no but my sense is nothing short of God talking to you personally would not do it.

So now that you cant stand on the, "if govt can take it away it proves its from govt" leg were down to the proof of God argument?

why dont you prove God doesnt exist?

excellent

what's your proof that God exists  and please clarify which god you're talking about

[240 is Back]

excellent

what's your proof that God exists  and please clarify which god you're talking about

ours.  the right one.  the rest of them are wrong.

[Soul Crusher]

ours.  the right one.  the rest of them are wrong.

So you want bush, Obama, newt, Reid, Palin, et al giving you rights? 

[tonymctones]

how did we "know" it all of a sudden?

Is it just that those in charge realized they could have more money/food/sex/whatever by teaching religion and school to the masses - so they could be taxed?

I mean, human beings have been here one million years.  It is only in the last 2000 or 3000 that we made murder illegal, for pete's sake.

God would allow anything to kill anything for any reason for 5 billion years of life, and one million years of people - then suddenly 2000 years ago, he CHANGES his plan?

Sorry, but every law, every right, every constraint outside of a free-for-all is MANMADE.  period.  Not even debatable.

LOL first even if you subscribe to evolution man as in modern man hasnt been around for a million years it about 125k if I remember correctly.

Second b/c it is inherint, do you know what inherint means?

Humans have free will cracker jack, what they do with it is up to them.

[240 is Back]

So you want bush, Obama, newt, Reid, Palin, et al giving you rights?  

fuck no.  I dont want ryan and romney giving me rights either.   Romney signed an assault weapons ban, remember?  Go fvck a duck on this one.

I'd love to have God giving me my rights.  Do you have his cell number?

Sheesh, what are you even talking about "i WANT"?   WTF is "want"?  How do I want to paint our story?  Doesn't matter, the rights will be the same no matter what.  You can credit God, I can credit mankind organizing society for his own gain.  Same thing dog.

[tonymctones]

excellent

what's your proof that God exists  and please clarify which god you're talking about

My proof is that I can see God in just about everything I see around me. I see God in the actions of my friends and family, nature even misguided ppl like 240.

but again my proof will never be good enough for you, like I said short of God speaking directly to you in an audible voice you have convinced yourself that God doesnt exist.

[240 is Back]

LOL first even if you subscribe to evolution man as in modern man hasnt been around for a million years it about 125k if I remember correctly.
Second b/c it is inherint, do you know what inherint means?
Humans have free will cracker jack, what they do with it is up to them.

You can't prove its inherent lol... and you can't prove free will.  Are we really taking the thread there haha.  I dont belive in free will, dude.  This entire universe, solar system, planet, rivers, volcanos - they all move on a path that with a big enough computer, could be predicted.  Living things, they 'make choices' based upon environment, how they're built, and what they've learned.

But then again, i'm just telling you what i've been exposed to, given my own hard wiring and what i've been thru.  You'll use your own upbringing, hard-wired CPU and set of experiences to "prove" me wrong using your own will, i gotcha.

[240 is Back]

My proof is that I can see God in just about everything I see around me. I see God in the actions of my friends and family, nature even misguided ppl like 240.

but again my proof will never be good enough for you, like I said short of God speaking directly to you in an audible voice you have convinced yourself that God doesnt exist.

I believe in a God.  But I dont think our little ass gray matter can comprehend what HE is.  To even think he would give us the brain to understand Him is silly, if you think about it.  The kind actions you see in those around you are interpreted by YOU as kindness because you had a good upbringing, you have a good brain, and you NEED to believe you exist for something other than filling shoes and taking a crap for the next 50 years.

[Soul Crusher]

I would rather my rights come from a pet rock than other humans like ghettothugbama Clinton bush newt etc.

[tonymctones]

You can't prove its inherent lol... and you can't prove free will.  Are we really taking the thread there haha.  I dont belive in free will, dude.  This entire universe, solar system, planet, rivers, volcanos - they all move on a path that with a big enough computer, could be predicted.  Living things, they 'make choices' based upon environment, how they're built, and what they've learned.

But then again, i'm just telling you what i've been exposed to, given my own hard wiring and what i've been thru.  You'll use your own upbringing, hard-wired CPU and set of experiences to "prove" me wrong using your own will, i gotcha.

*FACE PALM

[tonymctones]

I believe in a God.  But I dont think our little ass gray matter can comprehend what HE is.  To even think he would give us the brain to understand Him is silly, if you think about it.  The kind actions you see in those around you are interpreted by YOU as kindness because you had a good upbringing, you have a good brain, and you NEED to believe you exist for something other than filling shoes and taking a crap for the next 50 years.

Well according to your post just above this a big enough computer could, I mean thats your grey matter right?

goodness gracious youre a waste of bandwidth...

Its not just in the good that God is visible 240

I dont need to believe 240, it does seem you need to define me and others to feel comfortable with our beliefs.

I believe b/c of what Ive seen, even if I had never read the bible I would still believe in a higher power.

[Straw Man]

My proof is that I can see God in just about everything I see around me. I see God in the actions of my friends and family, nature even misguided ppl like 240.

but again my proof will never be good enough for you, like I said short of God speaking directly to you in an audible voice you have convinced yourself that God doesnt exist.

you're correct in thinking that your ability to "see" god in just about everything is not going to be proof enough for me

I'm kind of disappointed that's the best you can do, a completey vague and totally subjective judgement....and then from that you expect someone to conclude that the god you "see" has given me rights?