Author Topic: Prayer and Religion in Public Life  (Read 579722 times)

AbrahamG

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #825 on: March 04, 2022, 09:18:34 PM »
I'm agonistic.. SURPRISE

But I Come from a back ground of Christianity. Was preaching in a 1ST Baptist church as a guest speaker at 16-17 years of age. but in my 30's I began to have some doubts and started to do some research outside of the Christian community. Long story short I left Christianity. I don't have a problem with Jesus' teachings.. but the Old Testament is screwed up in my opinion, Sadly the majority of people who question my stance, never actually read the bible.

My journey is somewhat similar.  Came up Catholic and in my late twenties and early 30's started exploring other faiths.  Found stuff I liked and disliked in most faiths including my own but ultimately I just couldn't buy into any of it.  Just feels like trying to square a circle.   Jesus' teachings are idyllic.  To this day when I read the beatitudes, it fills me with emotion.  When religion is used for the betterment of lives and society I say more power to you. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #826 on: March 04, 2022, 09:23:33 PM »
My journey is somewhat similar.  Came up Catholic and in my late twenties and early 30's started exploring other faiths.  Found stuff I liked and disliked in most faiths including my own but ultimately I just couldn't buy into any of it.  Just feels like trying to square a circle.   Jesus' teachings are idyllic.  To this day when I read the beatitudes, it fills me with emotion.  When religion is used for the betterment of lives and society I say more power to you.

Absolutely agree

And I know a few Christians who actually follow Jesus' teachings and run their churches in line with that. Those churches I donate to. I respect people who care about other people. I have nothing but disdain for people who under the guise of religion,  are jerks...

ThisisOverload

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #827 on: March 08, 2022, 02:35:56 PM »
Good posts fellas.

I'm the same way, raised in a very religious family. Texas country farming people.

I read and studied the bible until i was 18. Went to Church 2-3 days a week my entire teenage life.

In my 20's i realized it's all shenanigans. Interesting stories created by men.

A book put together by kings to control people.

I think it has it's place and think it's great to have god fearing people, but it's not for me.

The most religious people i know are complete frauds. But i do know a lot of very good and honest folks that live a good life and help a lot of people.

Like everything in life it can be used for good or evil.

I stopped debating people about it years ago, but i will give me .02 when asked.

Like agnostic said, most people who disagree with me have never read or studied the bible seriously. People just follow what they are told by their parents and Church family. The old testament it crazy and people choose what to believe. The entire bible is filled with contradictions and things taken out of context.

I do believe there is most likely a "God", or a supreme being, something unknown to us. But it's not what is portrayed in the bible and it surely is not human based. How conceited to believe it would be in a universe so massive. We are like an ant farm in the grand scheme of things on a cosmic level.

I've studied a lot of religions in my life. Christianity is a very strange religion when you look at it from the outside.

I found the Buddhist people and teachings to be the most interesting. As they focus on conquering yourself. Spent many nights talking to monks when i lived in Houston. I dated a Vietnamese girl for 6 years and used to donate my time to the local Temple just to help fix and build things. Most of them are good people.

I find religion fascinating and terrifying at the same time.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #828 on: March 09, 2022, 04:58:59 AM »
I agree. The idea that God has cursed us all to eternal hellfire unless we accept Christ's death on the cross, a man we have no proof even existed, or, if he existed was anything like presented to us, is weird.

Reading the Bible from the Old Testament through the New Testament it is clear the concept and character traits of God changed as human culture changed. God starts out as an angry egomaniac who pouts and punishes his creations for every little thing and then transforms to a God of infinite love and then back again (in Book of Revelation). He also favors one group of his children (the Jews) over all of the others.

If we do everything right to receive God's forgiveness of our sins (which he put in us) and his glory our reward is we get to live in heaven forever doing what? Worshiping him. ::)

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #829 on: March 12, 2022, 02:38:29 PM »
couldn't agree more with the above two posts.

ThisisOverload

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #830 on: May 05, 2022, 04:07:35 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/04/satanic-flag-boston-city-hall-request-supreme-court-ruling

A Satanic temple is requesting to fly a flag over Boston City Hall after the US supreme court this week ruled the city violated the free speech rights of a conservative activist seeking to fly a Christian flag outside the downtown complex.

If a Christian flag can be flown, why not Satanic?

Skeletor

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #831 on: May 05, 2022, 06:03:54 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/04/satanic-flag-boston-city-hall-request-supreme-court-ruling

A Satanic temple is requesting to fly a flag over Boston City Hall after the US supreme court this week ruled the city violated the free speech rights of a conservative activist seeking to fly a Christian flag outside the downtown complex.

If a Christian flag can be flown, why not Satanic?

Indeed. If one religion can fly its flag on a public building then other religions should be able to, not just the government "approved" or "preferred" religions. This is similar to what happened with prayers and invocations before public meetings where only "certain" religions were allowed.


How the Satanic Temple forced Phoenix lawmakers to ban public prayer

For weeks now, Phoenix lawmakers have wrestled with the idea of allowing members of a Satanic group to give the invocation before an upcoming city meeting.

Phoenix City Council members arrived Wednesday at a controversial solution: Banning prayer altogether.

From now on, lawmakers decided in a 5-4 vote, council meetings will no longer begin with a traditional prayer, but instead open with a moment of silence.

Although the decision may block the Satanic Temple’s Feb. 17 invocation, it prompted outcries from some Phoenix residents and city officials who believe the prayer ban is a de facto victory for the Satanists.

Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton and four members of the council voted in favor of the change and argued that an effort to silence particular groups could land the city in an expensive legal battle.

“The First Amendment to the Constitution is not ambiguous on this issue,” Stanton said, according to the Republic. “Discriminating against faiths would violate the oath that all of us on this dais took. I personally take that very, very seriously.”

Lipper, who has represented the Satanic Temple in previous legal battles, said that two years ago, the Supreme Court held in Town of Greece v. Galloway that a community’s practice of beginning legislative sessions with prayers does not violate the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause.

However, Lipper said, while local governments can open meetings with prayers, those governments cannot control the content of those prayers unless they denigrate other faiths or include proselytizing. Much of the resistance to the Satanic Temple, he said, comes from people who believe the group is made up of devil worshipers, and they tend to unleash fierce opposition that wouldn’t hold up in a court of law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/02/05/how-the-satanic-temple-forced-phoenix-lawmakers-to-ban-public-prayer/

AbrahamG

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #832 on: May 05, 2022, 08:11:06 PM »
Silly shit.  No different than Alice in Wonderland or Twas the Night Before Christmas.

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #833 on: June 02, 2022, 09:04:30 PM »
Silly shit.  No different than Alice in Wonderland or Twas the Night Before Christmas.


At this point, anyone believing in a biblical god hasn't read the bible cover to cover.. bar none. and before you comment, ask yourself... have you actually read the bible cover to cover?

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #834 on: June 07, 2022, 03:01:30 PM »

At this point, anyone believing in a biblical god hasn't read the bible cover to cover.. bar none. and before you comment, ask yourself... have you actually read the bible cover to cover?

This is absolute BS.  Have I read the Bible "cover to cover"?  I cannot say that I have taken any religious book and read it "cover to cover."  Have I read parts of pretty much the entire thing over the course of my entire life?  Yes. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #835 on: June 09, 2022, 09:35:26 PM »
This is absolute BS.  Have I read the Bible "cover to cover"?  I cannot say that I have taken any religious book and read it "cover to cover."  Have I read parts of pretty much the entire thing over the course of my entire life?  Yes.

Do you believe it?

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #836 on: June 13, 2022, 05:55:06 PM »
Do you believe it?

You're asking me whether I believe all parts of the Bible?  Including the parables (i.e., fictional stories), historical stories, commandments, recommendations, love stories, etc.?  Not a good question, especially from someone who has read the Bible from "cover to cover." 

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #837 on: June 13, 2022, 07:04:55 PM »
You're asking me whether I believe all parts of the Bible?  Including the parables (i.e., fictional stories), historical stories, commandments, recommendations, love stories, etc.?  Not a good question, especially from someone who has read the Bible from "cover to cover."

It's a legitimate question. You had the option of specifying what parts you decided to believe and what parts you put in the fictional category. Not a difficult thing to do

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #838 on: June 13, 2022, 07:49:34 PM »
It's a legitimate question. You had the option of specifying what parts you decided to believe and what parts you put in the fictional category. Not a difficult thing to do

It's a terrible question.  As someone who has read the Bible "cover to cover," you knew that your question was too loaded to provide a reasonable answer.  But it's not your goal to have an actual discussion.  Like a disproportionate number of atheists, you read the Bible, constantly engage people of faith, and try to either ridicule them or prove they are hypocrites.  Weak sauce. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #839 on: June 14, 2022, 12:03:40 AM »
It's a terrible question.  As someone who has read the Bible "cover to cover," you knew that your question was too loaded to provide a reasonable answer.  But it's not your goal to have an actual discussion.  Like a disproportionate number of atheists, you read the Bible, constantly engage people of faith, and try to either ridicule them or prove they are hypocrites.  Weak sauce.

I'm not sure how many times I have stated here that I have no interest in changing peoples beliefs but I'll wager a years abstinence from this site that is its more than once. If you are up to the bet.. if not.. then lets move on.... it was NOT a loaded question.. either you believe the bible or you don't
When you start cherry picking whats real and what's fiction you are really admitting it is all up for grabs... I'm simply a realist... I agree with you about all the parts you think are fiction.. we just disagree on the rest

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #840 on: June 14, 2022, 01:58:42 PM »
I'm not sure how many times I have stated here that I have no interest in changing peoples beliefs but I'll wager a years abstinence from this site that is its more than once. If you are up to the bet.. if not.. then lets move on.... it was NOT a loaded question.. either you believe the bible or you don't
When you start cherry picking whats real and what's fiction you are really admitting it is all up for grabs... I'm simply a realist... I agree with you about all the parts you think are fiction.. we just disagree on the rest

You're being disingenuous.  You are seriously telling me there aren't numerous parables in the Bible, particularly those told by Jesus in the New Testament?  It's not cherry picking anything to understand that parts of the Bible contain fictional stories, told for the purpose of making a particular point. 

The cool thing about being a Christian is you never lose the power of choice.  That power includes some Christians who interpret things differently than other Christians.  Nothing wrong with that.   

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #841 on: June 17, 2022, 09:45:20 PM »
You're being disingenuous.  You are seriously telling me there aren't numerous parables in the Bible, particularly those told by Jesus in the New Testament?  It's not cherry picking anything to understand that parts of the Bible contain fictional stories, told for the purpose of making a particular point. 

The cool thing about being a Christian is you never lose the power of choice.  That power includes some Christians who interpret things differently than other Christians.  Nothing wrong with that.   

It's also the cool thing about believing in any religion, psychic, flat earth, 911 conspiracy or any conspiracy for that matter. The truth is what your opinion happens to be... nothing wrong with that either I guess

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #842 on: June 18, 2022, 12:05:17 PM »
Watched a Youtube video from Eric Dubay titled Jesus Christ Never Existed. Too lazy to post it. Very interesting perspective.

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #843 on: June 21, 2022, 03:22:32 PM »
It's also the cool thing about believing in any religion, psychic, flat earth, 911 conspiracy or any conspiracy for that matter. The truth is what your opinion happens to be... nothing wrong with that either I guess

The "truth" is how you interpret whatever you're reading.  Two people can read the same thing and come to diametrically opposed interpretations.  That's not limited to the Bible.  That's life in general.  It's one of the things that makes life interesting. 

Why do you think we have courts?  Because people disagree over written text.  We often get split decisions from the U.S. Supreme Court all the time (including today). 

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #844 on: June 22, 2022, 09:43:39 AM »
The "truth" is how you interpret whatever you're reading.  Two people can read the same thing and come to diametrically opposed interpretations.  That's not limited to the Bible.  That's life in general.  It's one of the things that makes life interesting. 

Why do you think we have courts?  Because people disagree over written text.  We often get split decisions from the U.S. Supreme Court all the time (including today).
This is why there are so many denominations. They all have verses in the Bible that "prove" they are right.

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #845 on: June 22, 2022, 07:25:34 PM »
This is why there are so many denominations. They all have verses in the Bible that "prove" they are right.

and again, with Christianity at least, it boasts the Holy Ghost, an entity that is supposed to guide you..the fact there are so many denominations of people filled with this holy ghosts kind of demonstrates it's ineffectiveness or lack of existence

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #846 on: June 22, 2022, 08:35:35 PM »
This is why there are so many denominations. They all have verses in the Bible that "prove" they are right.

Or they just have differences of opinion. 

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #847 on: June 23, 2022, 02:41:26 AM »
and again, with Christianity at least, it boasts the Holy Ghost, an entity that is supposed to guide you..the fact there are so many denominations of people filled with this holy ghosts kind of demonstrates it's effectiveness or lack of existence
Yes, the Holy Ghost tells Catholics to be Catholic, Baptists to be Baptist, Methodist to be Methodist, Mormons to be Mormon, etc, etc.

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #848 on: August 26, 2022, 08:36:36 PM »
Or they just have differences of opinion.

Are you really that dense that you would say that?

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #849 on: August 29, 2022, 05:46:48 PM »
Are you really that dense that you would say that?

Nothing dense about recognizing that people can read the same thing and have different interpretations.  But you have to not be a doofus to understand that.