Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) => Topic started by: Bluto on July 12, 2006, 02:42:48 AM
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im watching rich franklin all access now and his training is pretty cool:
he do circuit training:
15 reps
10 stations
10 rotations
= 1500 reps
no rest
and drinks 1,5 gallons a day of water ?!
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What exercises were they and in what order? This is interesting since he has more of a somewhat bb physique than most mma guys...
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cant remember, nothing fancy. leg press, smith press for shoulders
stuff like that
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Here is a clip
&search=rich%20franklin
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yeah that's the one
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It said 1500 reps in 60 minutes...so for every minute he does 25 reps and @ .41 reps per second! If that's true, i'm beyond amazed!!! I like Rich but with as much running as he does back and forth from machine to machine that seems a little far fetched...
Anyone else agree?
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It said 1500 reps in 60 minutes...so for every minute he does 25 reps and @ .41 reps per second! If that's true, i'm beyond amazed!!! I like Rich but with as much running as he does back and forth from machine to machine that seems a little far fetched...
Anyone else agree?
When you put it like that, it does start to sound exaggerated. Still serious workout, but maybe stretched a little.
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When you put it like that, it does start to sound exaggerated. Still serious workout, but maybe stretched a little.
Agreed...one things for sure is that I would take a pass with Rich if it came down to it! He's a bad mofo!!!
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damn
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It said 1500 reps in 60 minutes...so for every minute he does 25 reps and @ .41 reps per second! If that's true, i'm beyond amazed!!! I like Rich but with as much running as he does back and forth from machine to machine that seems a little far fetched...
Anyone else agree?
Interesting calculation ::)
1 hour = 60 minutes = 3600 seconds
1500 reps in 3600 seconds = one rep every 2.4 seconds.....What you did is: you took 1500 and divided with 3600 (result: 0.41) instead of dividing 3600 (time) with 1500 (reps)...
Even if you take your correct result: 25 reps per minute (60 seconds) it is obvious that result is the same: 2.4 seconds to perform 1 rep....(considering that Rich is going through with virtually no rest between sets - it is certainly possible to complete the workout like this).
However - while both Randy and Rich have good idea of circuit training (multiple stations, countless reps, non-stop action, little or no break in between...etc...etc) I must say they didn't consider several other very important issues of weight resistance training for MMA.
All the cardio training, boxing, kick-boxing, submission training, wrestling, sparing...etc, etc is bringing up their endurance to very high level.
Resistance training COULD and SHOULD improve their endurance but AT THE SAME TIME - they should also focus on SPEED and POWER they can gain IF they put some thought into designing THE BEST MMA weight resistance training...
I will only say - they are on the right track...but missing few little twists that would make ALL THE DIFFERENCE...
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Interesting calculation ::)
I will only say - they are on the right track...but missing few little twists that would make ALL THE DIFFERENCE...
OK, I'd like to hear any suggestions if you'd be generous enough to share them...just some general ones; I know that part of your income is helping with training programs, etc ;)
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you have to pay to pick The Mind mate
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OK, I'd like to hear any suggestions if you'd be generous enough to share them...just some general ones; I know that part of your income is helping with training programs, etc ;)
It is not everything in money...and I do many things for free.
Most of my gym members get my consultations FREE on daily bases.
I am big fan of MMA...and I respect a great deal both Randy and Rich (Randy impresses me for OTHER reasons as well - and that is why I am big fan of his)...Without the question they are in superb shape and excellent fighters with great stamina, endurance and conditioning...but I am talking about weight resistance training DESIGNED for MMA fighters that would along with superior endurance CONSIDERABLY increase their SPEED and POWER.
Training displayed on two of their training videos while GOOD (should I use - OPTIMAL?) it is far from GREAT (should I say - MAXIMAL?) in terms of increasing few other important factors OTHER than endurance.
If you guys just give honest try and THINK about it - many would come up with the answers ;)
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brutal size and strength, hahahahahahaha. ::)
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I can tell ya right now that after watching that video, if it is a TRUE representation of what Rich is doing for the strength and condition aspect of his program, I aint impressed. He is a good mma fighter, but their are MUCH better exercise selections to maximize his results....These exercises were done on stationary machines...not taken into consideration balnce, power and explosiveness...they were simply tossing weights around. Folks, the way a rep is done (speed neg/explosive positive) is very important to a fighter...Teach and train the nervous sytem. This workout, if accurately depicted in this video is no better than a 1970's jack la lanne circuit (which is even better becauise of excercise placement,upper/lower with cardio stations and more accurately is called peripheal heart action (PHA)training). I do like the unilateral sled however.......The seated leg curls, for him or a fighter, should be thrown in the garbage. MUCH better exercises to be done.
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Interesting calculation ::)
1 hour = 60 minutes = 3600 seconds
1500 reps in 3600 seconds = one rep every 2.4 seconds.....What you did is: you took 1500 and divided with 3600 (result: 0.41) instead of dividing 3600 (time) with 1500 (reps)...
Even if you take your correct result: 25 reps per minute (60 seconds) it is obvious that result is the same: 2.4 seconds to perform 1 rep....(considering that Rich is going through with virtually no rest between sets - it is certainly possible to complete the workout like this).
However - while both Randy and Rich have good idea of circuit training (multiple stations, countless reps, non-stop action, little or no break in between...etc...etc) I must say they didn't consider several other very important issues of weight resistance training for MMA.
All the cardio training, boxing, kick-boxing, submission training, wrestling, sparing...etc, etc is bringing up their endurance to very high level.
Resistance training COULD and SHOULD improve their endurance but AT THE SAME TIME - they should also focus on SPEED and POWER they can gain IF they put some thought into designing THE BEST MMA weight resistance training...
I will only say - they are on the right track...but missing few little twists that would make ALL THE DIFFERENCE...
Your way makes alot more sense. My math has always been a little sketchy. Thank god I am not an accountant...Even at 2.4 seconds a rep it seems to me with all the running back and forth kinda quick. I do agree with you about needing some power as well. Alot of mma fighters think like boxers and only want to have as much mass as they feel comfortable to fight with if that makes sense. For example, Rich feels good in his mind at 185 with how his conditioning is and how much weight he puts back on for the fight after the weigh in and gaining any more muscle in his mind would slow him down. Classic thinking of a boxer...
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Your way makes alot more sense. My math has always been a little sketchy. Thank god I am not an accountant...Even at 2.4 seconds a rep it seems to me with all the running back and forth kinda quick. I do agree with you about needing some power as well. Alot of mma fighters think like boxers and only want to have as much mass as they feel comfortable to fight with if that makes sense. For example, Rich feels good in his mind at 185 with how his conditioning is and how much weight he puts back on for the fight after the weigh in and gaining any more muscle in his mind would slow him down. Classic thinking of a boxer...
I am NOT talking about bulking up (hypertrophy training)...I was thinking SPEED and POWER...not a MUSCLE...
Rich and Randy have MORE THAN ENOUGH muscle mass for a fighters...and as everyone knows - MUSCLE MASS is not necessary for fighting (unless is completely nonexistant...)...
Functional muscle adapted (with specific weight resistance training) to extreme SPEED and POWER could make even guys like Rich and Randy even more devastating strikers (even though in Rich's case it is hard to imagine than he could get any better than he already is with his "lightning speed" punches...I believe in Bruce Lee's philosophy "accept NO limitations as a limitation" and therefore I think that even Rich can further improve speed and power of his punches...Records are there (world records in numerous sports) to be broken - so everyone at whatever level of excellence CAN always become EVEN BETTER...)
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Interesting calculation ::)
1 hour = 60 minutes = 3600 seconds
1500 reps in 3600 seconds = one rep every 2.4 seconds.....What you did is: you took 1500 and divided with 3600 (result: 0.41) instead of dividing 3600 (time) with 1500 (reps)...
Even if you take your correct result: 25 reps per minute (60 seconds) it is obvious that result is the same: 2.4 seconds to perform 1 rep....(considering that Rich is going through with virtually no rest between sets - it is certainly possible to complete the workout like this).
However - while both Randy and Rich have good idea of circuit training (multiple stations, countless reps, non-stop action, little or no break in between...etc...etc) I must say they didn't consider several other very important issues of weight resistance training for MMA.
All the cardio training, boxing, kick-boxing, submission training, wrestling, sparing...etc, etc is bringing up their endurance to very high level.
Resistance training COULD and SHOULD improve their endurance but AT THE SAME TIME - they should also focus on SPEED and POWER they can gain IF they put some thought into designing THE BEST MMA weight resistance training...
I will only say - they are on the right track...but missing few little twists that would make ALL THE DIFFERENCE...
translation i could never do this and he would kick my ass (endurance wise) not only in the weight room but in real life
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If you guys just give honest try and THINK about it - many would come up with the answers ;)
I'm thinking something along the lines of German Comp training ???
BTW, did I mention I'm a big fan, Milos?
And I think Ray's a jerk ;D
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I'm thinking something along the lines of German Comp training ???
BTW, did I mention I'm a big fan, Milos?
And I think Ray's a jerk ;D
No, I wouldn't go with German Comp this time around (even though IT IS GREAT training system)...
Randy and Rich are on the right track as far as doing multiple exercises one after another (giant sets...) but CHOICE of exercises and WAYS of performing them COULD make a world of difference.
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Rep speed? Rep range? Compound mvmt's vs isolation?
C'mon Mind, you're killing me here!!! ;D
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Rep speed? Rep range? Compound mvmt's vs isolation?
C'mon Mind, you're killing me here!!! ;D
THINK ABOUT IT:
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH with resistance training for a fighter?
Would you want him to do slow isolation moves to be able to squeeze his muscles and "scare ::)" the opponent?
Off course not. Most of the fighters can't wait to get in the ring with "muscleman" as they count on bulked up guys being slow and unable to move...punch...etc
However, few know that IF "muscleman" trains specifically to become a fighter - they can be LETHAL...When someone knows how to punch and has the weight behind it...it could be deadly...and when someone has better balance (strong stance and submission defence) it is much harder to throw...
So, resistance training SHOULD simulate all the moves that would happen in the usual fight...and stimulate all the muscles used in the fight as well...You should think about numerous stances, throws, punches, submissions...etc when you are designing the workout program.
Also rep speed and way of performing exercises could be very different. For the most part OFF COURSE - as explosive as possible...but I will go to other end as well - and sometimes include even STATIC contractions (as an extreme...)
I hope I gave you SOME ;D ideas...
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THINK ABOUT IT:
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH with resistance training for a fighter?
Would you want him to do slow isolation moves to be able to squeeze his muscles and "scare ::)" the opponent?
Off course not. Most of the fighters can't wait to get in the ring with "muscleman" as they count on bulked up guys being slow and unable to move...punch...etc
However, few know that IF "muscleman" trains specifically to become a fighter - they can be LETHAL...When someone knows how to punch and has the weight behind it...it could be deadly...and when someone has better balance (strong stance and submission defence) it is much harder to throw...
So, resistance training SHOULD simulate all the moves that would happen in the usual fight...and stimulate all the muscles used in the fight as well...You should think about numerous stances, throws, punches, submissions...etc when you are designing the workout program.
Also rep speed and way of performing exercises could be very different. For the most part OFF COURSE - as explosive as possible...but I will go to other end as well - and sometimes include even STATIC contractions (as an extreme...)
I hope I gave you SOME ;D ideas...
Damn bro have you ever thought about being a strength coach for fighters? With your background it should be easy and those dudes got bank...well maybe some do...if they win a few fights that is... ;D
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THINK ABOUT IT:
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH with resistance training for a fighter?
Would you want him to do slow isolation moves to be able to squeeze his muscles and "scare ::)" the opponent?
Off course not. Most of the fighters can't wait to get in the ring with "muscleman" as they count on bulked up guys being slow and unable to move...punch...etc
However, few know that IF "muscleman" trains specifically to become a fighter - they can be LETHAL...When someone knows how to punch and has the weight behind it...it could be deadly...and when someone has better balance (strong stance and submission defence) it is much harder to throw...
So, resistance training SHOULD simulate all the moves that would happen in the usual fight...and stimulate all the muscles used in the fight as well...You should think about numerous stances, throws, punches, submissions...etc when you are designing the workout program.
Also rep speed and way of performing exercises could be very different. For the most part OFF COURSE - as explosive as possible...but I will go to other end as well - and sometimes include even STATIC contractions (as an extreme...)
I hope I gave you SOME ;D ideas...
I think JC Santana and Rhadi Ferguson got the best strength training for combat athletes. I got a couple of their DVDs, and their transverse training, and SAID principles are great stuff! My friend, Curtis Lefler, (RIP) used to train Vitor Belfort. You should consider training fighters as well, Milos.
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I dont think this is thier full trainning more like a sample of part of it. think about it u think they never hit a heavy bag ect ??? Of course they do, plus as a competitive fighter ur not gonna tell ppl every thing u do!
Youre competitors would have a eild day finding out ur weak points, and copying ur best techniques!
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I think JC Santana and Rhadi Ferguson got the best strength training for combat athletes. I got a couple of their DVDs, and their transverse training, and SAID principles are great stuff! My friend, Curtis Lefler, (RIP) used to train Vitor Belfort. You should consider training fighters as well, Milos.
I don't know Sanatana's or Ferguson's principles...and I hope they have good ones.
I believe that many trainers would have their rationale behind their methods...For me by far THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in designing the program for whatever athlete is WHAT this athlete wants to accomplish with any particular workout.
If MMA fighter comes to the gym to lift weights what is his goal?
Whatever that might be - that's how you design the program...
While I only watched here on getbog two video clips (Rich and Randy) and I saw multiple exercises in superset (rather - GIANT SETS) fashion - I agreed with the idea...but I saw many things that could be majorly improved...
As Randy said few guys that think it is easy to do what he does will soon realize otherwise...
I can only say - what Randy did would only be considered one light warm-up giant set for me...After that he would have to go to serious work...
Rich on another hand CAN last 45 minutes NON STOP doing the exercises his trainer chose...(I think too easy, simple and inappropriate...).
To me it looks like he is doing 45 minute light sparing without a single "big punch"...More like the leg work...
Instead he should have few ALL OUT bursts of FURY...with the weights - 3 to 5 minutes of non stop super hard action (knockout punch attempt with Wandarley Silva or Vitor Belfort kind of fury when they go after the hurt opponent) followed with somewhat reduced intensity but still far exceeding intensity seen on Rich's video...
Next FITSHOW episode I train two girls (figure and a bodybuilder) in PROGRESSIVE GIANT SETS fashion...(it should be out any day now...).
Last set they did consecutive 8 exercises for biceps and 8 exercises for triceps NON STOP...
Imagine something similar but choosing exercises specific for fighters and applying the highest intensity possible - performing explosive compound moves with virtually no rest in between.
I would need 3 months to turn "butterball" into Wandarley...(well at least as a punching machine...)
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A good one I learned in boxing, is doing punching drills with 3-5lbs weights in ur hands for a few rounds. It really helps increase ur power and endurance! The worst is when u fight a couple rounds and you cant punch hard anymore, and ur guard drops. It makes it kinda hard to win the fight ;)
When I fought in the ring seriously I was training 3-5 hrs a day 5-6 days a week! So if that was their FULL work out I'd say they are all undertrainning. But I don't think thats all they do IMHO.
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brutal size and strength, hahahahahahaha. ::)
You do realize he's a fighter not a bodybuilder don't you?
How long do you think it would take him to end your life? I'm going to guess 3 seconds and your skull would implode.
I realize you do this for effect but come on, Franklin is one badass dude. ::)
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I can't believe this subject is still being debated! At first it was funny and now it's retarded! Do you honestly think that some former pro BB can train a pro fighter and drastically improve his game at Randy & Richs' level? Give me a F*KING break! So some crazy training program is going to help Randy when
Chuck drops a bigass missle on him again? I don't think ANYONE IN THE WOLRD OF FIGHTING has ever questioned Randy/Richs power or conditioning so for Milos or anyone else to come on here claiming there training is subpar should sign up and take lessens to fight first. ANYONE in the world of MMA will agree that on game day these guys are as ready as anyone else, forget about what YOU think of their training, they get it done! Now how they take a punch will never be tought by Milos or anyone for that matter! I take that back, maybe we could have them do German power drills with chewing gum to strengthen thier jaw muscles! Oh, brother, I gotta stop....
P.S. Since some of you are in California go drop by Titos camp or any of the top tier guys' camps and spend a day trying to do what they do! How hard do you think Rich or Randy would laugh if they read this thread about old bodybuilders thinking that their training isn't up to par? I guess if you look back to TUF3 and see big Dan Freeman training guys you'll have your answer...
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Look at what Freeman's advice about steak and chicken did for Team Shamrock.....
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Look at what Freeman's advice about steak and chicken did for Team Shamrock.....
Exactly!!! ;D Those dudes were worried about eating the whole time instead of training like fighters as Titos' guys did!!! So much for the Bodybuilding diet and training in the world of MMA... ::) ;D
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BB and fighting are 2 totaly differnt things are require totaly different ways of trainning for shure.
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I can't believe this subject is still being debated! At first it was funny and now it's retarded! Do you honestly think that some former pro BB can train a pro fighter and drastically improve his game at Randy & Richs' level? Give me a F*KING break! So some crazy training program is going to help Randy when
Chuck drops a bigass missle on him again? I don't think ANYONE IN THE WOLRD OF FIGHTING has ever questioned Randy/Richs power or conditioning so for Milos or anyone else to come on here claiming there training is subpar should sign up and take lessens to fight first. ANYONE in the world of MMA will agree that on game day these guys are as ready as anyone else, forget about what YOU think of their training, they get it done! Now how they take a punch will never be tought by Milos or anyone for that matter! I take that back, maybe we could have them do German power drills with chewing gum to strengthen thier jaw muscles! Oh, brother, I gotta stop....
P.S. Since some of you are in California go drop by Titos camp or any of the top tier guys' camps and spend a day trying to do what they do! How hard do you think Rich or Randy would laugh if they read this thread about old bodybuilders thinking that their training isn't up to par? I guess if you look back to TUF3 and see big Dan Freeman training guys you'll have your answer...
I don't know you but your comment makes it appear like you do not know what your talking about. Strength and conditioning programs, PROPERLY EXCECUTED, have been one of the MOST IMPORTANT factors in the increased success in any athlete in the past 10-15 years. There is so much I can talk about, but it would make no sense what so ever to spend the time on a board. The subject is a much more complicated one than you may think. Evander Holyfield is just one of the hundreds of well known athletes that followed good/productive strength/conditioning programs at their peak. I not only BB but trained athletes of all sort AND participated in many sports for over 20 years. I got no idea if a guy like Milos would be a good coach for such athletes, BUT he DID point out that hypertrophy training was no where near the type of program he is refering to.
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I can't believe this subject is still being debated! At first it was funny and now it's retarded! Do you honestly think that some former pro BB can train a pro fighter and drastically improve his game at Randy & Richs' level? Give me a F*KING break! So some crazy training program is going to help Randy when
Chuck drops a bigass missle on him again? I don't think ANYONE IN THE WOLRD OF FIGHTING has ever questioned Randy/Richs power or conditioning so for Milos or anyone else to come on here claiming there training is subpar should sign up and take lessens to fight first. ANYONE in the world of MMA will agree that on game day these guys are as ready as anyone else, forget about what YOU think of their training, they get it done! Now how they take a punch will never be tought by Milos or anyone for that matter! I take that back, maybe we could have them do German power drills with chewing gum to strengthen thier jaw muscles! Oh, brother, I gotta stop....
P.S. Since some of you are in California go drop by Titos camp or any of the top tier guys' camps and spend a day trying to do what they do! How hard do you think Rich or Randy would laugh if they read this thread about old bodybuilders thinking that their training isn't up to par? I guess if you look back to TUF3 and see big Dan Freeman training guys you'll have your answer...
First of all let's have one thing straight - I have NOTHING but respect for both Randy and Rich...(and many other martial artists).
I was martial artist in Yugoslavia (trained judo for 10 years, karate for 2...and had training partner who was a Yugoslavian boxing champion with whom I spent countless of hours of sparing...)
What I am saying - AND I STAND 100% BEHIND IT - as much as training of Rich and Randy looks satisfying...it is far from BEST.
Are those two guys phenomenal athletes?
Off course they are...
Are they in phenomenal physical shape?
Off course they are...
Can they be even better?
Off course they can!
Weight resistance training for MMA fighters could be MUCH, MUCH - M U C H better than what was shown on that video footage...
And I mean no disrespect to anyone.
Certainly weight training is only small part of complete conditioning of these SUPER ATHLETES...but as such - it should do EVERYTHING what was designed to do - and among other things it SHOULD increase SPEED and POWER besides the ENDURANCE...
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i agree with milos 100%
the only problem is...alot of martial artists i talk to...believe that more resistance and weight training HURT more than they help their game.
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Milos isn't disrespecting any fighters; being a bodybuilder doesn't mean you don't have any knowledge about resistance training for other kinds of athletes. Milos has trained Olympic level sprinters, etc.
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i agree with milos 100%
the only problem is...alot of martial artists i talk to...believe that more resistance and weight training HURT more than they help their game.
Ya I was told that when I was in boxing too, but I still continued to lift, just with a different style and it helped me *A LOT* as of now I'm much bigger than a weight I would have boxed at and I've noticed if u keep up training for speed and mobility ur body adapts over 6mo-1yr or so and u just end up better than ever! I think the myth arises because ppl put on weight fast and their brain hasn't had time to reprogramme it's self for the new size. but if after time it does adapt! I punch and move just as fast as I ever did, I just have way more power behind it now. And for grappling *OF* course it really helps there.