Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: AlphaMaleDawg on February 24, 2012, 01:17:04 PM
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They work great and make my back work but...
I feel like if I go too heavy, my form suffers...then if I go just slightly less heavy, I can do like 20 reps easily. Then when I increase the weight, my form doesn't feel right even though I can rep out a normal 10 times. It's like I don't know whether to do the easier version that seems to stimulate more, or the harder version
anyone else have this problem?
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I get that to. If I go 5-10 pounds to heavy I feel like I'm using my bicep to much. It's one of my favorite back exercises pretty grueling to If you do them right.
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I experience the same, once I go slightly heavier, I need some momentum. I force myself to bend in a 90 degree angle and only allow 4-5 forced reps to prevent that it becomes a traps movement.
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thats why you have to use chest supported rows. ugh its like no one listens to me...
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Lying BB Rows
T-Bar Rows using 25 pound plates,not 45`s
DB Row
2 DB Rows (simultaneously)
Or
Do Pulldowns of Dumbell Pullovrers first,immeditely followed by a set of Barbell Rows...........won`t be able to go as heavy due to the Pre-Exhaust factor involved in this Super-Set,thus solving your problem.
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Lying BB Rows
T-Bar Rows using 25 pound plates,not 45`s
DB Row
2 DB Rows (simultaneously)
Or
Do Pulldowns of Dumbell Pullovrers first,immeditely followed by a set of Barbell Rows...........won`t be able to go as heavy due to the Pre-Exhaust factor involved in this Super-Set,thus solving your problem.
Nice!
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Nice!
They don`t call me old for nothing! ;D
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Use the low row hammer strength machine instead
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You're on gear, so it really doenst matter how you do them. Look at Branch.
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yeah I get the same problem
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if your doing barbell rows at close to 90 degree your never going to be able to use heavy weight.
and while doing rows at that angle is good for hitting the muscles of the upper back.
barbell rows are really supposed to be done at about 60-45 degrees. that is the position where the lats become engaged the strongest.
done in this manner the range of motion is short but you keep your elbows tucked, lower back arched, and pull the bar into your lower belly, pause at the top and squeeze... you can load up the weight without sacrificng form too.
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I do them strict as heavy as I can, then go heavier with form like tdongz describes.
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thats why you have to use chest supported rows. ugh its like no one listens to me...
That's a good one, but the problem is that most benches are too wide for a good stretch. In case you mean the machine version, most brands suck for row machines, Hammer Strength excluded, but my gym has only crappy brands :-\
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if your doing barbell rows at close to 90 degree your never going to be able to use heavy weight.
and while doing rows at that angle is good for hitting the muscles of the upper back.
barbell rows are really supposed to be done at about 60-45 degrees. that is the position where the lats become engaged the strongest.
done in this manner the range of motion is short but you keep your elbows tucked, lower back arched, and pull the bar into your lower belly, pause at the top and squeeze... you can load up the weight without sacrificng form too.
"Heavy" is relative. There's no need to adjust an exercise in order to go as heavy as possible. Anatomical wise there is no upper back (that area is mainly the trapezius, which isn't a back muscle), the insertions of the latissimus dorsi are far under your elbows (or right below in case you have a Dennis James back). By bending more forward you hit the lats more without too much traps work.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Latissimus_dorsi.png/250px-Latissimus_dorsi.png)
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Easy fix- Do the bb rows sloppy, then finish up with a few sets of dumbbell rows strict.
In practice, I don't know of many folks that stay strict when the weight gets really heavy, the trick is just not to let them turn into a high pull.
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I do them strict as heavy as I can, then go heavier with form like tdongz describes.
Exactly. That's one of the points of pyramiding. You go from stricter form and higher reps to heavy with a little loosened up form.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/357pl79.gif)
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"Heavy" is relative. There's no need to adjust an exercise in order to go as heavy as possible. Anatomical wise there is no upper back (that area is mainly the trapezius, which isn't a back muscle), the insertions of the latissimus dorsi are far under your elbows (or right below in case you have a Dennis James back). By bending more forward you hit the lats more without too much traps work.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Latissimus_dorsi.png/250px-Latissimus_dorsi.png)
the muscle you have highlighted in red, the latissimus, doesnt come into play too much when your bent over to 90 degrees. rear delts, traps, and a few other upper back muscle come into play quite heavily, and a little bit of stress is put on the upper portions of the latissimus... while a great deal of streesss is put on the lower lumbar/spinal erector.
the main reason for doing the exericse at around 45 degree is because that is the position that engages the lats greatest.
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Wanna grow...gotta row 8)
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45 degrees is how the exercise is meant to be performed........Yates bastardized the movement by standing up and rowing.
It worked great for him though,except that he eventually tore his bicep! ;)
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if your doing barbell rows at close to 90 degree your never going to be able to use heavy weight.
and while doing rows at that angle is good for hitting the muscles of the upper back.
barbell rows are really supposed to be done at about 60-45 degrees. that is the position where the lats become engaged the strongest.
done in this manner the range of motion is short but you keep your elbows tucked, lower back arched, and pull the bar into your lower belly, pause at the top and squeeze... you can load up the weight without sacrificng form too.
heavy is relative i do my rows close to 90 degrees.. and i go heavy
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That's a good one, but the problem is that most benches are too wide for a good stretch. In case you mean the machine version, most brands suck for row machines, Hammer Strength excluded, but my gym has only crappy brands :-\
(http://www.weightliftingdiscussion.com/chestsupport1.jpg)
do it.
/thread
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heavy is relative i do my rows close to 90 degrees.. and i go heavy
I don`t particularly like them this way,but that`s just me........ one thing about bodybuilding is that if something works for you,you should exploit it to the max!
Find out what works best and go for it.
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also doing them with a reverse grip helps to sqeeze the lats,especially when using heavier weight.
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also doing them with a reverse grip helps to sqeeze the lats,especially when using heavier weight.
it also helps tearing you biceps ;)
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(http://www.weightliftingdiscussion.com/chestsupport1.jpg)
do it.
/thread
I like those too. Everyone says it's hard to breathe properly when you go heavy, but not really. I think the best I worked upto was 6 plates for 10-12 and 7 plates for 5-6, although I would usually do them later in the workout and not go that heavy.
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(http://www.weightliftingdiscussion.com/chestsupport1.jpg)
do it.
/thread
We have a machine like that, since a short while. I've tried it, but I get a better contraction with a barbell since I can start with the load before my shoulders and end against my stomach, lets call them "belly crushers" ;D
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the muscle you have highlighted in red, the latissimus, doesnt come into play too much when your bent over to 90 degrees. rear delts, traps, and a few other upper back muscle come into play quite heavily, and a little bit of stress is put on the upper portions of the latissimus... while a great deal of streesss is put on the lower lumbar/spinal erector.
the main reason for doing the exericse at around 45 degree is because that is the position that engages the lats greatest.
Call it bro science or bro experience, I feel my lats a lot better in the 90 degree version, prob because I'm able to contract my back better than with the 45-version. I also feel a better stretch in my lats in the lower position.
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people who don't feel the contraction in the lats have poor lat development.
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people who don't feel the contraction in the lats have poor lat development.
LOL, I said "better contraction" and back is one of my strong points.
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Call it bro science or bro experience, I feel my lats a lot better in the 90 degree version, prob because I'm able to contract my back better than with the 45-version. I also feel a better stretch in my lats in the lower position.
I do think it`s a bit easier on the lower back that the 45 degree version if going heavier.
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I don`t particularly like them this way,but that`s just me........ one thing about bodybuilding is that if something works for you,you should exploit it to the max!
Find out what works best and go for it.
I'm sorry I meant torso nearly parallel to the floor
I do t agree with Yates form for bb row and all this nonsense about Yates row
Like I said in another thread if someone else did rows like that, then he would be laughed at for bad form
Dorian had good back genes....so because he had awesome back people are sheep and imitated
But rows IMO should be done torso close parallel to the floor
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I'm sorry I meant torso nearly parallel to the floor
I do t agree with Yates form for bb row and all this nonsense about Yates row
Like I said in another thread if someone else did rows like that, then he would be laughed at for bad form
Dorian had good back genes....so because he had awesome back people are sheep and imitated
But rows IMO should be done torso close parallel to the floor
I always liked you and enjoy your posts,now I like you even more! ;D
Oh yeah,no homo! :)
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Lee Preist had the worrst back, Paul Dillet was second.
Dont ask these guys.
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Lee Preist had the worrst back, Paul Dillet was second.
Dont ask these guys.
Followed by Strydom. :(
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Alpha, I'm with you man. I rep out 225-275 very strict but anything 315+ is kinda "sloppy". I find that I don't really care though LOL. I mean, even though there is a little momentum going from low back or legs I'm still moving heavy poundages(for me), AND I feel it in my lats while I'm doing it so I know it works. Plus I've had decent thickness improvements since I started going heavy.
I do them Yates style at about a 45 degre angle and pull the bar straight up into my stomach and hold it for just a breif moment.
I don't like the chest supported rows because I find it hard to breath with any amount of weight on the contraption.
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LOL, I said "better contraction" and back is one of my strong points.
If my arms weren't mind-boggling i'd say the same.
My lats hang like slabs of meat ;)
come at me bro
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I do think it`s a bit easier on the lower back that the 45 degree version if going heavier.
I agree, but like I've said "there's no need to adjust an exercise in order to go as heavy as possible.". Bodybuilding is about stimulation, not about lifting as heavy as possible. However, I have nothing against some cheat reps, but not all the time, like some tend to do during their back training.
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If my arms weren't mind-boggling i'd say the same.
My lats hang like slabs of meat ;)
come at me bro
Well Spain, esp Barcelona and Madrid, is on my holiday wish list ;)
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(http://www.weightliftingdiscussion.com/chestsupport1.jpg)
do it.
/thread
Superior. Years ago, I approached the manager of our gym chain to get said piece of equipment. His eyes glazed over before I even described it. :-\
/there are a couple of gyms in the big smoke that have it, tho.
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your form suffers because you cant lift the weight without momentum. the best way to determine what weight to use is to find the weight that allows you to hold the weight at the highest contraction. with a weight swinged up to get to that point you wont be able to do that.
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Well Spain, esp Barcelona and Madrid, is on my holiday wish list ;)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp5v3vsLqY1r02mcso1_500.jpg)
i make zyzz look anti-aesthetic 8).
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I agree, but like I've said "there's no need to adjust an exercise in order to go as heavy as possible.". Bodybuilding is about stimulation, not about lifting as heavy as possible. However, I have nothing against some cheat reps, but not all the time, like some tend to do during their back training.
X2 totally agree.
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This appears to be a thread about bodybuilding and exercise form on the G & O. Very strange goings-on here at Getbig today.
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This appears to be a thread about bodybuilding and exercise form on the G & O. Very strane goings-on here at Gebtig today.
Almost like a real bodybuilding board! ;D
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I always liked you and enjoy your posts,now I like you even more! ;D
Oh yeah,no homo! :)
;D
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BB rows supersetted by the preceding chins, works extremely well for me and like you said, that way i can use low weight with correct form and really squeeze my lats
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Its true though you see these guys on youtube.... rowing 405 video titled ... "yates row 405 for 10 reps"
makes me laugh everytime....
guarantee you if mike matazaro .. wore high heels and called them mike heels for calves
you would have a bunch of sheep people following too
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BB rows supersetted by the preceding chins, works extremely well for me and like you said, that way i can use low weight with correct form and really squeeze my lats
Awesome! A time-shifting back work out. ::)
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Don't worry about feeling a stretch. I think to many people mis-use the barbell row. It's not meant to be a pumping out or "feel" exercise. It's meant for power. Don't worry as much about "feel" with these. Bend over at 70 degrees or so, grab it, ram it up hard into the belly button, lower and repeat. Pure strength, pure bread and butter.
Use stiff arm pullovers and machine pullovers + pulldowns and other cable or machine exercises to "feel" the lats contracting. When rowing with the barbell focus on everything involved. For years I only focused on trying to get the feeling in my lats and completely missed the purpose of the exercise. When I started focusing on feeling it in my lats, upper back, rear delts, traps, biceps, every where is when I started getting the most out of barbell rows. This is the bread and butter movement that is meant to build the back and all other supporting muscle groups around it.
Go heavy, exhaust EVERY muscle involved, no isolation of the back specifically. Save the other exercises for that purpose. But for rows in particular, focus on brutalizing everything. I know this goes against what most of us are taught, but then again look at who writes these muscle building articles and teaches this isolation and "feel" stuff. Most of these magazine and book authors have never experienced sore lats. This is what makes us question Ronnie and Branches form among other pro's, but yet it's obviously working. I'm not saying to use loose form like these guys do, but I can also see why it works as well.
For instance when I train chest, I now focus on building and contracting the pecs, front delts, and triceps. Not just contracting the pecs. I contract all of it. Do the same with the back and you won't go wrong.
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Awesome! A time-shifting back work out. ::)
a dr. whose brain never matured more than 3rd grade reading comprehension. i guess, by standards of a shiteating monkey you may be of average intelligence though
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I wouldn't stress the rep scheme too hard. If you feel your working the muscle better with heavier weight and not as strict form then that's what you need to go with or if the lighter weight is working it better, go with that.
Some people stress form too much. Bad form is form that puts you at risk for injury. Otherwise, you know what muscles you're trying to work, so who's to tell you that your form is wrong if you're feeling it the most in those muscles with the way you're doing it?
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heavy is relative i do my rows close to 90 degrees.. and i go heavy
but its not heavy for you :)
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Call it bro science or bro experience, I feel my lats a lot better in the 90 degree version, prob because I'm able to contract my back better than with the 45-version. I also feel a better stretch in my lats in the lower position.
i dont doubt your experience, i think whats probably happening is your confusing the various muscles of the upper back with the lats. the lats are low and on the outside , from your arm pit to the bottom of your spine. all that stuff between your shoulders up there on your back , while its nice to have all that developed, its not your lats.
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Lee Preist had the worrst back, Paul Dillet was second.
Dont ask these guys.
Levrone and Sonbaty are up there.
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:D
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I wouldn't stress the rep scheme too hard. If you feel your working the muscle better with heavier weight and not as strict form then that's what you need to go with or if the lighter weight is working it better, go with that.
Some people stress form too much. Bad form is form that puts you at risk for injury. Otherwise, you know what muscles you're trying to work, so who's to tell you that your form is wrong if you're feeling it the most in those muscles with the way you're doing it?
Best/smartest post I've read on getbig today. We all like to judge and condemn or celebrate things we read and see on the internet, but at the end of the day you have to do what works for you. I can tell you without a doubt that loose form BB rows with heavy weight have helped me out immensly. Way better than repping out strict 90 degree rows with 225.
And rows are not for you lats anyway, you do chins and pullovers for lats(width), and various forms of rows for middle back and some lower lat thickness.
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my lower back is too badly injured from years of powerlifting and douche-lifting to be able to do bent rows with anything over 225, but I love doing them face down on a bench.
You lose an inch or two at the contraction but most people cheat that anyway.. really saves the lower back and lets you get a ton of sets in for the upper back
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Thumbs down for barbell rows. Unnecessary and risker than deads for the back.
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:D
this is one example when you do heavier weight you tend to sacrifice your form at the top of the movement....
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Don't really rate them to be honest
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i dont doubt your experience, i think whats probably happening is your confusing the various muscles of the upper back with the lats. the lats are low and on the outside , from your arm pit to the bottom of your spine. all that stuff between your shoulders up there on your back , while its nice to have all that developed, its not your lats.
and im not saying lats arent hit when you do barbell rows at 90. they are. but not to the degree and what stress is levied comes from the upper portion, mostly neglecting the lower.
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but its not heavy for you :)
Yes it is
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Exactly. That's one of the points of pyramiding. You go from stricter form and higher reps to heavy with a little loosened up form.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/357pl79.gif)
If your body survives it - this is the way to go.
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If your body survives it - this is the way to go.
Exactly. Say what you will about Ronnie's form or whatever, but the fact of the matter is, that is how you row. No if's, and's, or but's about it. Rowing is a power movement. If you want to feel the lat's stretch and contract and squeeze and all that then row with your chest on a support or a machine. If you want mass and raw power and of course lats that hang then you have to row with force and activate everything involved. Don't worry about "feel". Just pull that weight up. Don't worry about it not hitting the muscle. If your body is aligned right and your form is good, believe me, you'll use the correct muscles to move that weight. You'll be forced to if the weight is heavy enough and power is generated properly.
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They work great and make my back work but...
I feel like if I go too heavy, my form suffers...then if I go just slightly less heavy, I can do like 20 reps easily. Then when I increase the weight, my form doesn't feel right even though I can rep out a normal 10 times. It's like I don't know whether to do the easier version that seems to stimulate more, or the harder version
anyone else have this problem?
your centre of gravity isn t positioned correct when you perform this movement
maybe you bent over to far or don t use ure legs the right way
usually it should be possible to go very heavy in this exercise
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(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp5v3vsLqY1r02mcso1_500.jpg)
i make zyzz look anti-aesthetic 8).
Don't do it, DP......don't meet him. :o :-X
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This appears to be a thread about bodybuilding and exercise form on the G & O. Very strange goings-on here at Getbig today.
In case you have "girl issues", feel free to post them
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this is one example when you do heavier weight you tend to sacrifice your form at the top of the movement....
X2!
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Don't do it, DP......don't meet him. :o :-X
Don't tell me you're jealous
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They work great and make my back work but...
I feel like if I go too heavy, my form suffers...then if I go just slightly less heavy, I can do like 20 reps easily. Then when I increase the weight, my form doesn't feel right even though I can rep out a normal 10 times. It's like I don't know whether to do the easier version that seems to stimulate more, or the harder version
anyone else have this problem?
I fucking hate barbell rows, never feel it right
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toth is spot on. barbell rows should not be treated as an isolation exercise it's an all around back exercise and you should allow some upper body movement. It's a very dynamic movement.
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I like those too. Everyone says it's hard to breathe properly when you go heavy, but not really. I think the best I worked upto was 6 plates for 10-12 and 7 plates for 5-6, although I would usually do them later in the workout and not go that heavy.
I have the same problem, cant breathe right when going heavy on this particular piece of equipment...
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I have the same problem, cant breathe right when going heavy on this particular piece of equipment...
Use this piece, very trending in Gold's Venice
(http://approvedgasmasks.com/images/evo5000-mask.jpg)
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Use this piece, very trending in Gold's Venice
(http://approvedgasmasks.com/images/evo5000-mask.jpg)
yeah, I've seen some dude training with this thing on. What's the supposed benefit?
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They work great and make my back work but...
I feel like if I go too heavy, my form suffers...then if I go just slightly less heavy, I can do like 20 reps easily. Then when I increase the weight, my form doesn't feel right even though I can rep out a normal 10 times. It's like I don't know whether to do the easier version that seems to stimulate more, or the harder version
anyone else have this problem?
Easy fix...do them on the smith machine.
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thats why you have to use chest supported rows. ugh its like no one listens to me...
i agree
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i agree
Hate that excersise .. Pushes the wind out of you... Very poor substitute for bb Rows
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yeah, I've seen some dude training with this thing on. What's the supposed benefit?
They put male anus aroma in it
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I think it's because your biceps get a pump, thus making them feel like they are doing more of the pulling.
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I completely LOVE this exercise. But I can't use it. makes my shoulders hurt for weeks, preventing chest workout success.
I did them 1-2 times a week for a month, got quite thick. But chest was all screwy
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i find different ways of doing exercises, regarding the 'strictness' of the movement allow for different feelings when training the muscle.
for me like to go really light with them- like plate and a half light at most. i use an underhand grip and nearly stand upright. none of this 45 bullshit. i lean forward and just let the weight hang until i feel it pulling on the bottom of my lats- if i cant feel this my arms are already to involved, and i hold this feeling thru the motion .go light like this and keep your elbows in and you'll be able to actually feel the pinch in the middle of your back from the traps right down to the insertion at the waist as you go thru the motion. im really trying to thicken that crevasse (sp?) that runs up the length of the back.
like i said, thats why i do the movement the way i do it. you could go a lot heavier and pound out big meaty reps and just work the area as a whole too. its doing what you want with the weight to get the desired result.
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I completely LOVE this exercise. But I can't use it. makes my shoulders hurt for weeks, preventing chest workout success.
I did them 1-2 times a week for a month, got quite thick. But chest was all screwy
Try some light rotator cuff movements. I always do them before I train back, chest or delts.
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45 degrees is how the exercise is meant to be performed........Yates bastardized the movement by standing up and rowing.
It worked great for him though,except that he eventually tore his bicep! ;)
^^
TRUTH here, everyone thought he was "really using heavy weights" to bring up his arms, but he blew his arm doing BB rows, in the wrong form.
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At the end of the day................DO WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANNA` DO !!!! ;D
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They work great and make my back work but...
I feel like if I go too heavy, my form suffers...then if I go just slightly less heavy, I can do like 20 reps easily. Then when I increase the weight, my form doesn't feel right even though I can rep out a normal 10 times. It's like I don't know whether to do the easier version that seems to stimulate more, or the harder version
anyone else have this problem?
Worst exercise imo. Stick to deadz and t-bar rows off the floor.
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If youre having from trouble use the cable rows, better stabilization because your butt is seated.
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I'm with Meso and Wes.....body parallel to the floor. Or slightly...SLIGHTLY...hi gher....the way Sharief is doing them in that video is a joke...just do a shrug
Also agree with that other post....BB rows are a bull Move with big weight, not a finesse move.
I have also developed a secret exercise that isolates lats and gives me good width
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I'm with Meso and Wes.....body parallel to the floor. Or slightly...SLIGHTLY...hi gher....the way Sharief is doing them in that video is a joke...just do a shrug
Also agree with that other post....BB rows are a bull Move with big weight, not a finesse move.
I have also developed a secret exercise that isolates lats and gives me good width
Is it called "injecting"?
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Is it called "injecting"?
A few people here know it and have all made great progress
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Do tell!
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Do tell!
I'm starting up my own website....all your questions will be answered there ;D
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my secret lat exercise is doing rows on a hyper extension chair/seat/bench whatever you want to call it, like this:
(http://www.specialtyfitness.com/assets/files/img/products/strength/tuffstuff-resid/adj-hyp-ext-bench-main.jpg)
you can't do nearly as much weight, and you need a healthy lower back, but it works like crazy.
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I'm starting up my own website....all your questions will be answered there ;D
:D
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I'm starting up my own website....all your questions will be answered there ;D
Let me guess, in the schmoe member section?
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my secret lat exercise is doing rows on a hyper extension chair/seat/bench whatever you want to call it, like this:
(http://www.specialtyfitness.com/assets/files/img/products/strength/tuffstuff-resid/adj-hyp-ext-bench-main.jpg)
you can't do nearly as much weight, and you need a healthy lower back, but it works like crazy.
no way dude, the weights you will use like that won't build true thickness. Ya gotta do 3 plates plus per side to get a real thick back...
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i like to do overhand and wide-ish grip, this will allow you to cheat to some degree but still keep most of the tension on your back. finish up with some light weight cable rows (same grip) for 15-20 reps to burn out after bent over rows get too heavy
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no way dude, the weights you will use like that won't build true thickness. Ya gotta do 3 plates plus per side to get a real thick back...
Duh, I said "light." 3 plates per side is light for your typical getbig super model fucking, million a day making, mr olympia caliber physique owning member.
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my secret lat exercise is doing rows on a hyper extension chair/seat/bench whatever you want to call it, like this:
(http://www.specialtyfitness.com/assets/files/img/products/strength/tuffstuff-resid/adj-hyp-ext-bench-main.jpg)
you can't do nearly as much weight, and you need a healthy lower back, but it works like crazy.
honestly i'd be less worried about my lower back and more worried about counterbalancing the thing and landing on my fucking face. being 6'3" doesnt help
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this is how ive always done my rows
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honestly i'd be less worried about my lower back and more worried about counterbalancing the thing and landing on my fucking face. being 6'3" doesnt help
you can't fuck up the balance, they're designed for shit like what i am describing.
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this is how ive always done my rows
now THAT looks like a good way to destroy your back!
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now THAT looks like a good way to destroy your back!
dont knock it till you try it
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dont knock it till you try it
I have a hard time taking advice from fat guys like the ones in this video...but i'll give it a shot.
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I have a hard time taking advice from fat guys
this guy isnt so fat ;)
(http://www.emusclor.com/img/exercises/39-arnold-schwarzenegger-dorsal-barbell-row.jpg)
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I also find that deadlifting the weight initially activates the lats more, if you want to do 45 degree rows... just sayin.
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I also find that deadlifting the weight initially activates the lats more, if you want to do 45 degree rows... just sayin.
haney and robby did it a similar way
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Duh, I said "light." 3 plates per side is light for your typical getbig super model fucking, million a day making, mr olympia caliber physique owning member.
what's the point of doing them light?
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dont knock it till you try it
I tried it today, seemed to be effective at working the lats AND putting my lower back in a compromised position. I will try them next time from a low pin on a rack.
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bump