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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: loco on May 31, 2012, 05:08:48 AM
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(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/WxlyNL4pvnYas78CWhqRkA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0zNTU7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/gma/us.abcnews.go.com/gty_pastor_mack_wolford_rattlesnake_ll_120530_wmain.jpg)
A "serpent-handling" West Virginia pastor died after his rattlesnake bit him during a church ritual, just as the man had apparently watched a snake kill his father years before.
http://news.yahoo.com/serpent-handling-west-virginia-pastor-dies-snake-bite-173406645--abc-news-topstories.html
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Deuteronomy 6:16: Do not test the LORD your God as you did at Massah.
Still good advice today.
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Yet none in the congregation will acknowledge the bible is wrong. They will have canned responses that overlook the obvious so they can still maintain their beliefs, no matter how ludicrous they may be. The only positive, it was an adult who willingly participated who suffered
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Yet none in the congregation will acknowledge the bible is wrong. They will have canned responses that overlook the obvious so they can still maintain their beliefs, no matter how ludicrous they may be. The only positive, it was an adult who willingly participated who suffered
The Bible is wrong? Where does the Bible tell preachers to handle snakes?
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The Bible is wrong? Where does the Bible tell preachers to handle snakes?
And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16:17-18
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Deuteronomy 6:16: Do not test the LORD your God as you did at Massah.
Still good advice today.
Pedro 10:45 - Don't handle poisonous snakes without gloves on.
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Is the Pastor in heaven now?
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And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16:17-18
Yup and also
Luke 10:19
New International Version (NIV)
"I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you."
Neither one of these verses command preachers to handle snakes. A very small number of Pentecostal Christians have misinterpreted them to mean you must handle poisonous snakes in order to prove your Salvation.
Both of these verses are Jesus' promise of protection to his apostles.
Acts 28:3-5
3 Paul gathered a pile of brushwood and, as he put it on the fire, a viper, driven out by the heat, fastened itself on his hand.
4 When the islanders saw the snake hanging from his hand, they said to each other, “This man must be a murderer; for though he escaped from the sea, the goddess Justice has not allowed him to live.”
5 But Paul shook the snake off into the fire and suffered no ill effects.
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Yup and also
Luke 10:19
New International Version (NIV)
"I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you."
Neither one of these verses command preachers to handle snakes. A very small number of Pentecostal Christians have misinterpreted them to mean you must handle poisonous snakes in order to prove your Salvation.
Both of these verses are Jesus' promise of protection to his apostles.
Acts 28:3-5
3 Paul gathered a pile of brushwood and, as he put it on the fire, a viper, driven out by the heat, fastened itself on his hand.
4 When the islanders saw the snake hanging from his hand, they said to each other, “This man must be a murderer; for though he escaped from the sea, the goddess Justice has not allowed him to live.”
5 But Paul shook the snake off into the fire and suffered no ill effects.
What does "take up serpents" mean?
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What does "take up serpents" mean?
Obviously, most Christians do not interpret it the way that you and the few Pentecostals do.
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Obviously, most Christians do not interpret it the way that you and the few Pentecostals do.
Well, take up serpents and drinking deadly poisons and not being harmed would indicate pretty much what it says. I happen to believe, based on some research, that those scriptures were added later and not contained in the original manuscript but thats another discussion.
There are a myriad of things said in the bible that are as outragous as the serpent and poison references so even if those were taken out.. it would be quite a stretch for any adult, who wasn't subjected to "brainwashing" as a child, to accept the book as factual. IMHO
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Well, take up serpents and drinking deadly poisons and not being harmed would indicate pretty much what it says. I happen to believe, based on some research, that those scriptures were added later and not contained in the original manuscript but thats another discussion.
There are a myriad of things said in the bible that are as outragous as the serpent and poison references so even if those were taken out.. it would be quite a stretch for any adult, who wasn't subjected to "brainwashing" as a child, to accept the book as factual. IMHO
"Snake handling or serpent handling is a religious ritual in a small number of Pentecostal churches in the U.S., usually characterized as rural and part of the Holiness movement. The practice began in the early 20th century in Appalachia, spreading to mostly coal mining towns. The practice plays only a small part of the church service of churches that practice snake handling. Practitioners believe serpent handling dates to antiquity and quote the Book of Mark and the Book of Luke to support the practice."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_handling
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"Snake handling or serpent handling is a religious ritual in a small number of Pentecostal churches in the U.S.,
Personal observation- I think it is a small number because MOST (not all) Christians really don't believe the bible in the first place. MOST (American) Christians haven't bothered to read the bible cover to cover yet they will watch Springer for hours and read Clancy novels non stop. It is an insurance thing for them. They will say they believe and go through the motions just in case... But when push comes to shove, it has little impact on their lives. The ones who really believe and follow it, to the point they pray for God to heal their children even as they die, showing the ultimate "faith" are ridiculed and ostrazised by other believers because really... who actually believes the bible is real?
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Personal observation- I think it is a small number because MOST (not all) Christians really don't believe the bible in the first place. MOST (American) Christians haven't bothered to read the bible cover to cover yet they will watch Springer for hours and read Clancy novels non stop. It is an insurance thing for them. They will say they believe and go through the motions just in case... But when push comes to shove, it has little impact on their lives. The ones who really believe and follow it, to the point they pray for God to heal their children even as they die, showing the ultimate "faith" are ridiculed and ostrazised by other believers because really... who actually believes the bible is real?
And where in the world did you come up with this little "fact"?
First of all, there are millions of Christians around the world. So stop lumping them all together.
Second of all, don't be so harsh on America and American Christians. They are both great, and a great example to the world. Of all wealthy Western nations, the US is by far the one with the most people attending church on a weekly basis. And Americans give more to charity, per capita and as a percentage of gross domestic product, than the citizens of other nations. American Christians give more of their money, time and energy to helping the poor and victims of catastrophes than other people.
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LOL
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And where in the world did you come up with this little "fact"?
First of all, there are millions of Christians around the world. So stop lumping them all together.
Second of all, don't be so harsh on America and American Christians. They are both great, and a great example to the world. Of all wealthy Western nations, the US is by far the one with the most people attending church on a weekly basis. And Americans give more to charity, per capita and as a percentage of gross domestic product, than the citizens of other nations. American Christians give more of their money, time and energy to helping the poor and victims of catastrophes than other people.
Pretty sure I made it clear it is my personal observation. It's my opinion. based on observations of American Christans for many years. I can really only speak on American Christians because that is where I live. I don't think I lumped them all together and went out of my way to specify.
I would posit American Christians are the largest percentage of prison inmates, commit the most crimes (Obviously due in part to their large percentage of the population) and in general make most non believers look ....Christian..... ;-)
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Pretty sure I made it clear it is my personal observation. It's my opinion. based on observations of American Christans for many years. I can really only speak on American Christians because that is where I live. I don't think I lumped them all together and went out of my way to specify.
I would posit American Christians are the largest percentage of prison inmates, commit the most crimes (Obviously due in part to their large percentage of the population) and in general make most non believers look ....Christian..... ;-)
No comment on all the nice facts about American people, especially American Christian people? You ought to be proud, assuming you are an American.
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No comment on all the nice facts about American people, especially American Christian people? You ought to be proud, assuming you are an American.
Facts are facts.. proud? I think the US is one of the best countries in the world, everything considered.. but we certainly have problems. The majority of Americans claim Christianity as their religion. Just the way it is.. If tomorrow by magic all religious beliefs in the world disappeared like they never existed, good people would still be good people, bad people would still be bad people, maybe a few less elderly scammed, but then you'd probably need to balance that with a few additional suicides for those who have nothing to look forward to.. but all in all... probably not a bad situation..
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Facts are facts.. proud? I think the US is one of the best countries in the world, everything considered.. but we certainly have problems. The majority of Americans claim Christianity as their religion. Just the way it is.. If tomorrow by magic all religious beliefs in the world disappeared like they never existed, good people would still be good people, bad people would still be bad people, maybe a few less elderly scammed, but then you'd probably need to balance that with a few additional suicides for those who have nothing to look forward to.. but all in all... probably not a bad situation..
Interesting! Who are the "good" people and who are the "bad" people?
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Interesting! Who are the "good" people and who are the "bad" people?
Your mom.
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Your mom.
garebear,
You got a problem with me? Have I said something that offended you?
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Interesting! Who are the "good" people and who are the "bad" people?
It's a general term, people in your life, who are good decent people, would be that without religion, people who are A holes and the like would continue to be just that.
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It's a general term, people in your life, who are good decent people, would be that without religion, people who are A holes and the like would continue to be just that.
Good decent people may or may not continue to be that way without religion, but I disagree about A holes. I have personally witnessed A holes be transformed into good decent people by Jesus Christ. I am one of them, and I have witnessed this transformation in family, friends and acquaintances. Jesus Christ has been transforming A holes into good decent people for two thousand years.
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Your mom.
Way to elevate the debate, stud.
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Good decent people may or may not continue to be that way without religion, but I disagree about A holes. I have personally witnessed A holes be transformed into good decent people by Jesus Christ. I am one of them, and I have witnessed this transformation in family, friends and acquaintances. Jesus Christ has been transforming A holes into good decent people for two thousand years.
He transformed me and I love him for it!
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And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16:17-18
Actually theologians agree that the snake handling in Mark was representative of the ministry at that time and was not a lasting promise for all time (mistake made by some churches today). Yes, I'm fully aware that these verses in Mark aren't contained in every biblical manuscript, but they don't contradict or distort scripture. Still, during Paul's ministry in the book of Acts he was bitten by a snake and survived.
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Actually theologians agree that the snake handling in Mark was representative of the ministry at that time and was not a lasting promise for all time (mistake made by some churches today). Yes, I'm fully aware that these verses in Mark aren't contained in every biblical manuscript, but they don't contradict or distort scripture. Still, during Paul's ministry in the book of Acts he was bitten by a snake and survived.
As many people do, both believer and non believer
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It's a general term, people in your life, who are good decent people, would be that without religion, people who are A holes and the like would continue to be just that.
Religion does turn people around for sure. But they also have events in their lives that run them around that have little or nothing to do with religion. I find that when a person is ready to turn their life around the answers appear.
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Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
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Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
What is your assumption concerning the state of slave prior to the beating with a rod?
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What is your assumption concerning the state of slave prior to the beating with a rod?
Man of Steel, I'm pretty sure garebear is a troll, considering his reply to one of my posts was only "your mom", but knock yourself out wasting your breath on feeding this troll, if you wish. :)
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Man of Steel, I'm pretty sure garebear is a troll, considering his reply to one of my posts was only "your mom", but knock yourself out wasting your breath on feeding this troll, if you wish. :)
Make no mistake, "garebear" is absolutely a troll LOL! I can recall a couple of random threads in which he posted something like "I love the bible...especially the parts about the dinosaurs".
I mean, I like avxo and think he attempts to make good conversation, but I don't believe he's on this board looking for answers about God or trying to develop his own relationship with God. Like many aths and agns he's long since reasoned that notion away. He's on this board for the love of the debate and nothing more....as one of his first replies to me indicated something like, "just know, this isn't my first rodeo." He's never been outright ugly to anyone that I can recall so he keeps things civil. Still, for so many aths and ags this is a game and nothing more..."Trip Up the Christian" and feel superior in front of the nonbelieving majority. As the minority of believers all we can do is keep our cool, be patient, share the love of Christ and put that all important context around so many misconceptions (as best we're able to).
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The Lord works in mysterious ways...
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Obviously, most Christians do not interpret it the way that you and the few Pentecostals do.
The Bible is not open to interpretation.
The Bible is God's Word. Just as it is written. Who are you to decide how to interpret the writings within? Cherry picking and reading between the lines is not very christain-y.
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The Bible is not open to interpretation.
The Bible is God's Word. Just as it is written. Who are you to decide how to interpret the writings within? Cherry picking and reading between the lines is not very christain-y.
Exactly! Too bad these few Pentecostals don't agree with you and I.
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Snake Handling is illegal in four or five Appalachian States. How is that not unconstitutional? ??? ??? ???
First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
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Snake Handling is illegal in four or five Appalachian States. How is that not unconstitutional? ??? ??? ???
First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
good point
same goes for polygamy, child brides, slavery, and all kinds of other stuff
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good point
same goes for polygamy, child brides, slavery, and all kinds of other stuff
You got me.................... haha ;D
Still, snake handling shouldn't be illegal in my opinion. Natural Selection is being legislated away.