Scott, Pellius (may I call you Phil?),
You're two of my favorite blokes on this site. I do not like to see you at odds. I honestly think you're speaking at cross-purposes, at least to an extent.
It's nothing personal. I fight with him and that other anti-steroid, anti-bodybuild relic when they start spouting off their ignorance. But I forget about the next day as we agree on most everything else and band together as we crush the Lefties that are ruining this country.
Scott is very typical of many who have taken up bbing and have failed to achieved the level they expected. Therefore they dismiss those who have succeeded as having some special advantage. In this case, they got to a more advance level due to drugs and without drugs they would be just like Scott. Most who have taken bbing to the highest level were picked out by their peers due to having a natural genetic advantage. It's the same old story. Jay was insanely strong as a teenager and encouraged to take it further and when he did early success came easy. Same with Coleman, Viator, Mentzef, Arnold, they all showed huge potential as teenagers. Dr. Walczak even told me that he can predict pretty accurately a person's potential after about a year or two of solid training a diet. A time period where he claimed you will achieve about 95% of your natural potential. But to claim that they would be nothing without drugs is demonstrably false. They were above average as naturals. Look at Arnold, Casey, Mentzer, Jay as teenagers. Scott likes to show pictures after they are retired, off drugs, and STOP TRAINING. But that misrepresents the argument being made and is simply a lie.
He resents, though he won't admit it but his words demonstrate otherwise, those that are at a level he and I could never reach, as well as everybody on this board, no matter what we did or took. It is of course true that they wouldn't be at that level without hormones and peptides but to think that's all it takes. To dismiss the all consuming commitment a pro bber has to make, probably more than any other sport, is simply a lie and is spoken out of both ignorance and resentment for those who have succeeded where he has failed.
Changing the argument may change the conclusion, i.e., without drugs a person will take a huge dive, and with drugs everyone will get better. I never argued against that. But the original argument, the one which I am addressing, is that from drugs and peptides alone one can earn a spot on the Mr. Olympia stage. Everyone who has actually seriously bodybuild, used hormones, and put in the unappreciated discipline and commitment required will agree with me.
Scott is speaking with authority about things he simply does not have any hands on experience with and simply goes by what he observes and is told by people in a cult that is notorious for lying.
