Low dose anadrol 25mg (and longer use)

[benchmstr]

Berberine works just as well

Because they are either taking too much, or taking it at the wrong time.

Simply take 500mg before bed and it works for 24 hours..you take it in the morning with stimulants and of course things can happen..

And berberin works great..for like 3 months at a time..then you go right back to being insulin resistant and it doesn’t have the same anti cancer benefits

Bench

[stallonanegger]

Because they are either taking too much, or taking it at the wrong time.

Simply take 500mg before bed and it works for 24 hours..you take it in the morning with stimulants and of course things can happen..

And berberin works great..for like 3 months at a time..then you go right back to being insulin resistant and it doesn’t have the same anti cancer benefits

Bench

What about the lawsuits of metformin causing type 2 to become type 1 ? Its still on going...then they suddenly release "studies" showing it extends life.in rats and start pushing as antiaging drug...I wouldnt touch metformin , just use insulin.

[stallonanegger]

Amd before you say metformin doesnt cause type 2 to become type 1 , of the two people I know who were type 2 on metformin both became type1 and are on insulin now.

[dj181]

Orals are worse than anything..you rarely feel like shit on injectables..you usually feel like shit on orals.

Kinda like poison with a side effect of muscle growth

Bench

mast and primo yes

tren not so much

[ProudVirgin69]

4.5K for a 100 Anadrol? Can that quote even be correct? Lol.

I see you are unfamiliar w American for-profit healthcare 

[falco]

Orals are worse than anything..you rarely feel like shit on injectables..you usually feel like shit on orals.

Kinda like poison with a side effect of muscle growth

Bench

Agree 100%.

[benchmstr]

What about the lawsuits of metformin causing type 2 to become type 1 ? Its still on going...then they suddenly release "studies" showing it extends life.in rats and start pushing as antiaging drug...I wouldnt touch metformin , just use insulin.

Well, your using know diabetics as a reference to what your saying..I don’t know of a single diabetic who actually manages their condition..there’s a lot more to it than that.

Nothing wrong with using insulin either..I just don’t anymore

Bench

[benchmstr]

mast and primo yes

tren not so much

I always tell people to not use tren..but I love that shit..I don’t really have side effects on it..except the constant boners and night sweats

Bench

[stallonanegger]

Well, your using know diabetics as a reference to what your saying..I don’t know of a single diabetic who actually manages their condition..there’s a lot more to it than that.

Nothing wrong with using insulin either..I just don’t anymore

Bench

Well yeah the meds are actually designed to "help" them and were made for them. Both the people I know werent even overweight or retarded with food. Worked out etc. And in the lawsuit its thousands of people this drug has turned from type 2 to type 1 which for big pharma is obviously a major plus as insulin is more expensive than metformin and now these people need a hormone for the rest of their lives.

[Van_Bilderass]

Personally I feel great on orals, even very high dosages, EXCEPT for the massive heartburn that ruins everything. Injectable, if doing high dose, just make me feel bogged down and overloaded or "toxic" over time. My theory on that is that they build up in the system, whereas with orals, overnight you are at "zero" again lol.
Orals affect HDL very negatively as was said here, it has something to do with the liver. They can be done, by some, without totally tanking HDL, dependscon dose, compound etc. However, injectables can also reduce HDL drastically. And as dj said, some of it has to do with estrogen, so now many bodybuilders do little, some even no, aromatase inhibitors and are worried all their years on AIs may have done damage.

Regarding metformin turning Type 2 to Type 1, never read about that at all, but would like to if someone linked me. One possible mechanism that immediately pops into mind if the patients had very poor glucose management DESPITE the MET, that would mean they destroyed their remaining working beta cells in their pancreas. In that case it would not be the MET that is to blame. This is why some practitioners have advocated to put a bad case of Type 2 immediately on insulin to get immediate control of the glucose. If then the patient loses a lot of weight, exercises and so on, he may be able to get off the insulin. High glucose is why bodybuilders on high GH get on metformin, but some find it's not enough and add for example Lantus at night so their nighttime and morning glucose stays in range. Now taking insulin can further hurt insulin sensitivity but it's way preferable than the alternative where you actually start damaging tissues, and the pancreas itself. SO, the insulin is actually protective. If and when you stop the GH you stop the insulin as well. That said, some bodybuiilders can use A LOT of insulin without getting resistant. High doses of basal insulin are bad for sensitivity over time e.g. Lantus, I'm talking of say 100iu plus every day, many do just 10-20iu to assist the pancreas.
One can do both MET and some insulin if he is very careful.

I don't like that my replies get so long, but I can't fit a full explanation into a sentence or two 

[joswift]

Personally I feel great on orals, even very high dosages, EXCEPT for the massive heartburn that ruins everything. Injectable, if doing high dose, just make me feel bogged down and overloaded or "toxic" over time. My theory on that is that they build up in the system, whereas with orals, overnight you are at "zero" again lol.
Orals affect HDL very negatively as was said here, it has something to do with the liver. They can be done, by some, without totally tanking HDL, dependscon dose, compound etc. However, injectables can also reduce HDL drastically. And as dj said, some of it has to do with estrogen, so now many bodybuilders do little, some even no, aromatase inhibitors and are worried all their years on AIs may have done damage.

Regarding metformin turning Type 2 to Type 1, never read about that at all, but would like to if someone linked me. One possible mechanism that immediately pops into mind if the patients had very poor glucose management even with the MET, that would mean they destroyed their remaining working beta cells in their pancreas. In that case it would not be the MET that is to blame. This is why some practitioners have advocated to put a bad case of Type 2 immediately on insulin to get immediate control of the glucose. If then the patient loses a lot of weight, exercises and so on, he may be able to get off the insulin. High glucose is why bodybuilders on high GH get on metformin, but some find it's not enough and add for example Lantus at night so their nighttime and morning glucose stays in range. Now taking insulin can further hurt insulin sensitivity but it's way preferable than the alternative where you actually start damaging tissues, and the pancreas itself. SO, the insulin is actually protective. If and when you stop the GH you stop the insulin as well. That said, some bodybuiilders can use A LOT of insulin without getting resistant. High doses of basal insulin are bad for sensitivity over time e.g. Lantus, I'm talking of say 100iu plus every day, many do just 10-20iu to assist the pancreas.

I don't like that my replies get so long, but I can't fit a full explanation into a sentence or two 

Please dont enter any drug tested events 

[dj181]

I always tell people to not use tren..but I love that shit..I don’t really have side effects on it..except the constant boners and night sweats

Bench

lucky you

[dj181]

Personally I feel great on orals, even very high dosages, EXCEPT for the massive heartburn that ruins everything. Injectable, if doing high dose, just make me feel bogged down and overloaded or "toxic" over time. My theory on that is that they build up in the system, whereas with orals, overnight you are at "zero" again lol.
Orals affect HDL very negatively as was said here, it has something to do with the liver. They can be done, by some, without totally tanking HDL, dependscon dose, compound etc. However, injectables can also reduce HDL drastically. And as dj said, some of it has to do with estrogen, so now many bodybuilders do little, some even no, aromatase inhibitors and are worried all their years on AIs may have done damage.

Regarding metformin turning Type 2 to Type 1, never read about that at all, but would like to if someone linked me. One possible mechanism that immediately pops into mind if the patients had very poor glucose management DESPITE the MET, that would mean they destroyed their remaining working beta cells in their pancreas. In that case it would not be the MET that is to blame. This is why some practitioners have advocated to put a bad case of Type 2 immediately on insulin to get immediate control of the glucose. If then the patient loses a lot of weight, exercises and so on, he may be able to get off the insulin. High glucose is why bodybuilders on high GH get on metformin, but some find it's not enough and add for example Lantus at night so their nighttime and morning glucose stays in range. Now taking insulin can further hurt insulin sensitivity but it's way preferable than the alternative where you actually start damaging tissues, and the pancreas itself. SO, the insulin is actually protective. If and when you stop the GH you stop the insulin as well. That said, some bodybuiilders can use A LOT of insulin without getting resistant. High doses of basal insulin are bad for sensitivity over time e.g. Lantus, I'm talking of say 100iu plus every day, many do just 10-20iu to assist the pancreas.
One can do both MET and some insulin if he is very careful.

I don't like that my replies get so long, but I can't fit a full explanation into a sentence or two 

i get worse heartburn from tren than i do any oral

i drank another half bottle of rum and like 4 beers and 2 jacks last weekend

not too wise on drol

but i don't think orals damage one as much as "they" say

but once again it all comes down to health genes

some just have better genes than others

[Van_Bilderass]

Please dont enter any drug tested events 

There was some MMA pro who tested positive for Turinabol, then after he came back after like a year, he tested positive again. I think they let the second test slide as it was possibble the earlier use was still in his system in sufficient quantities to test positive. I don't know if that actually was the case, or just that the tests are SO sensitive nowadays. But it's still true that levels drop to "effectively zero" from a drug efficiency standpoint, or else you wouldn't take them every day or even 2-3 times a day.

See this ad on the effective dosing interval compared to methyltest

[joswift]

There was some MMA pro who tested positive for Turinabol, then after he came back after like a year, he tested positive again. I think they let the second test slide as it was possibble the earlier use was still in his system in sufficient quantities to test positive. I don't know if that actually was the case, or just that the tests are SO sensitive nowadays. But it's still true that levels drop to "effectively zero" from a drug efficiency standpoint, or else you wouldn't take them every day or even 2-3 times a day.

See this ad on the effective dosing interval compared to methyltest

Drug tests are very rarely set at zero, there are cut off points
Rec drug tests still allow a small amount of opiate because eating poppy seeds can produce a positive test for opioids

[Van_Bilderass]

i get worse heartburn from tren than i do any oral

Yes I've noticed that too. If someone hasn't had bad heartburn, it can be totally debilitating. I took one 10mg dbol the other day and was miserable for more than 24 hours. Too bad cause I love dbol. Like I said, it's probably the ideal oral to run solo, you get some estrogen, it's very anabolic, great for mood for many, sunshine in a bottle lol, and it doesn't lower you sex drive like some lower androgenic like Anavar. I did a LOT of dbol only cycles when starting out. When you stop it's like you piss away all the gains in 2 weeks lol. But everything is temporary when you do any steroids.

[joswift]

i get worse heartburn from tren than i do any oral

spit rather than swallow...see how you go

[stallonanegger]

Personally I feel great on orals, even very high dosages, EXCEPT for the massive heartburn that ruins everything. Injectable, if doing high dose, just make me feel bogged down and overloaded or "toxic" over time. My theory on that is that they build up in the system, whereas with orals, overnight you are at "zero" again lol.
Orals affect HDL very negatively as was said here, it has something to do with the liver. They can be done, by some, without totally tanking HDL, dependscon dose, compound etc. However, injectables can also reduce HDL drastically. And as dj said, some of it has to do with estrogen, so now many bodybuilders do little, some even no, aromatase inhibitors and are worried all their years on AIs may have done damage.

Regarding metformin turning Type 2 to Type 1, never read about that at all, but would like to if someone linked me. One possible mechanism that immediately pops into mind if the patients had very poor glucose management DESPITE the MET, that would mean they destroyed their remaining working beta cells in their pancreas. In that case it would not be the MET that is to blame. This is why some practitioners have advocated to put a bad case of Type 2 immediately on insulin to get immediate control of the glucose. If then the patient loses a lot of weight, exercises and so on, he may be able to get off the insulin. High glucose is why bodybuilders on high GH get on metformin, but some find it's not enough and add for example Lantus at night so their nighttime and morning glucose stays in range. Now taking insulin can further hurt insulin sensitivity but it's way preferable than the alternative where you actually start damaging tissues, and the pancreas itself. SO, the insulin is actually protective. If and when you stop the GH you stop the insulin as well. That said, some bodybuiilders can use A LOT of insulin without getting resistant. High doses of basal insulin are bad for sensitivity over time e.g. Lantus, I'm talking of say 100iu plus every day, many do just 10-20iu to assist the pancreas.
One can do both MET and some insulin if he is very careful.

I don't like that my replies get so long, but I can't fit a full explanation into a sentence or two 

Bit odd as it seems to have been scrubbed from the net and replaced with newer lawsuits for kidney damage/ causing ckd and csusing cancer due to contaminated batches as the lawsuits im talking about were happening good 5 years ago atleast.

[IroNat]

spit rather than swallow...see how you go

Oh my...

[Van_Bilderass]

Drug tests are very rarely set at zero, there are cut off points
Rec drug tests still allow a small amount of opiate because eating poppy seeds can produce a positive test for opioids

I'm sure you're right, although some substances are never supposed to be in the system ever lol. Nandrolone is supposed to be the worst from a drug testing pov, we've all seen the 18 month detection time. Even here some were able to show nandrolone was actually naturally produced in the body, albeit in a miniscule amount.

I maintain one can't do, pretty much, any amount of anabolics if tested rigorously nowaday. It's not true that athletes can dope freely "if they are not stupid." The only real way is microdosing test but if they want to they can still see if the test is natural vs synthetic. The other way is doing designer steroids, but even here you then run into problems explaining your low lutenizing hormone and testosterone. That's why Patrick Arnold did that hydrogestrinone  WITH a test/epitest cream to make it look like everything was normal. The other ways to evade positives are messing with the urine/blood sample, or somehow making the sample disappear. Russian secret service actually switched out samples from a testing lab, that's how good the tests are.

Edit: saw the spit rather than swallow from joswift lol, the Russians actually experimented with a method where you put steroids into Vodka and then swished it around in your mouth and then spit out. But you know, how effective is that going to be, and how much would it cut down your testing window?

https://theweek.com/speedreads/624054/russian-olympic-athletes-reportedly-mix-steroids-alcohol

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/02/the-kremlin-wants-me-dead-russias-sports-doping-whistleblower-speaks-out

[dj181]

Yes I've noticed that too. If someone hasn't had bad heartburn, it can be totally debilitating. I took one 10mg dbol the other day and was miserable for more than 24 hours. Too bad cause I love dbol. Like I said, it's probably the ideal oral to run solo, you get some estrogen, it's very anabolic, great for mood for many, sunshine in a bottle lol, and it doesn't lower you sex drive like some lower androgenic like Anavar. I did a LOT of dbol only cycles when starting out. When you stop it's like you piss away all the gains in 2 weeks lol. But everything is temporary when you do any steroids.

according to doc blakely dbol is the best arm building steriod there is

MPMD did this vid on deca and test study and...

100 mgs test caused ZERO MUSCLE GROWTH

and 100 mgs deca caused almost as much muscle growth as 300 mgs

very interesting

also 300 mgs test caused the greatest str increase and deca put muscle on delts and pecs while test only put muscle on delts

maybe thats why whose guys had bigger pecs and arms compared to other muscles back in the day? as they ran mostly deca and dbol

is doc blakely right

and estro got wiped da fuck out on deca only

again... very interesting

and check yo pms

[stallonanegger]

I'm sure you're right, although some substances are never supposed to be in the system ever lol. Nandrolone is supposed to be the worst from a drug testing pov, we've all seen the 18 month detection time. Even here some were able to show nandrolone was actually naturally produced in the body, albeit in a miniscule amount.

I maintain one can't do, pretty much, any amount of anabolics if tested rigorously nowaday. It's not true that athletes can dope freely "if they are not stupid." The only real way is microdosing test but if they want to they can still see if the test is natural vs synthetic. The other way is doing designer steroids, but even here you then run into problems explaining your low lutenizing hormone and testosterone. That's why Patrick Arnold did that hydrogestrinone  WITH a test/epitest cream to make it look like everything was normal. The other ways to evade positives are messing with the urine/blood sample, or somehow making the sample disappear. Russian secret service actually switched out samples from a testing lab, that's how good the tests are.

Wasnt Patrick  making custom drugs that werent tested for or that they even knew existed.. he said the high test is countered by injecting epitest along side your test if just using test. Patrick should be in a lab making crazy stuff but pretty sure he said hes basically blacklisted due to balco etc. If I was chinese Id get him over there give him a lab and let him do anything he wants as hes an actual genius when it comes to synthetic bio chemistry.

[Van_Bilderass]

according to doc blakely dbol is the best arm building steriod there is

MPMD did this vid on deca and test study and...

100 mgs test caused ZERO MUSCLE GROWTH

and 100 mgs deca caused almost as much muscle growth as 300 mgs

very interesting

also 300 mgs test caused the greatest str increase and deca put muscle on delts and pecs while test only put muscle on delts

maybe thats why whose guys had bigger pecs and arms compared to other muscles back in the day? as they ran mostly deca and dbol

is doc blakely right

and estro got wiped da fuck out on deca only

again... very interesting

and check yo pms

I don't know but I have a hunch the differences wash away as you escalate the doses. Some claim testosterone is just bit "stronger" than Deca, some think they are pretty much equal. Some speculate 19-nors like nandrolones synergizes well with GH and so on. Then some like Victor Black claim ALL steroids accrue the same amount of protein so choose the safest one as an addition to your preferred test dose. I know you watch that "Big Paul" fella and he thinks Primo or Mast are ideal with test and you don't actually need anything else. I never did Primo, and never did much Mast so I don't know from personal experience, but Vic sure changed how fellas design cycles nowadays, it's unfortunate the guy is a MASSIVE jackass, absolutely the worst lol.

[stallonanegger]

according to doc blakely dbol is the best arm building steriod there is

MPMD did this vid on deca and test study and...

100 mgs test caused ZERO MUSCLE GROWTH

and 100 mgs deca caused almost as much muscle growth as 300 mgs

very interesting

also 300 mgs test caused the greatest str increase and deca put muscle on delts and pecs while test only put muscle on delts

maybe thats why whose guys had bigger pecs and arms compared to other muscles back in the day? as they ran mostly deca and dbol

is doc blakely right

and estro got wiped da fuck out on deca only

again... very interesting

and check yo pms

Surely guys have bigger arms nowadays vs 70s 80s guys, roelly and phil had insane arms. What 70s 80s guy is even close to roelly or phil heath?

[Van_Bilderass]

Wasnt Patrick  making custom drugs that werent tested for or that they even knew existed.. he said the high test is countered by injecting epitest along side your test if just using test. Patrick should be in a lab making crazy stuff but pretty sure he said hes basically blacklisted due to balco etc. If I was chinese Id get him over there give him a lab and let him do anything he wants as hes an actual genius when it comes to synthetic bio chemistry.

Yes exactly. The hydrogestrinone was the secret designer steroid. The test/epitest was there to normalise the test levels as well as the test:epitest ratio. More than a 6:1 ratio is grounds for banning as they are usually in a 1:1 ration. The ONLY reason they were busted at that time is that some other coach found a used syringe in a trash bag and sent it to WADA lol.