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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: musclecenter on June 15, 2014, 12:36:18 AM

Title: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: musclecenter on June 15, 2014, 12:36:18 AM
.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Nick II on June 15, 2014, 12:38:57 AM
Embarrassing
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: dyslexic on June 15, 2014, 12:41:33 AM
Ditto ^^^

Needs to come up with his own shit...


He is far from his father's legacy.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Whiskey on June 15, 2014, 12:48:24 AM
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=392853.0;attach=425285)
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Europe on June 15, 2014, 01:00:27 AM
Embarrassing
This ^^ 10x times
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Kim Jong Bob on June 15, 2014, 02:18:47 AM
Ditto ^^^

Needs to come up with his own shit...


He is far from his father's legacy.
maybe he sees it as a tribute to his late father
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: the trainer on June 15, 2014, 08:25:11 AM
Come on guys dont be so hard on him its tough for anybody to live up to sergio oliva legacy, just judge him on his own merit.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Shockwave on June 15, 2014, 08:31:30 AM
Im fine with him tributing the victory pose to his father.... but that second pose... jesus, looks like hes competeing with the bikini chicks for the "who can stick their ass out further in the 'ready to recieve cock' pose" award.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: drmarkp on June 15, 2014, 08:35:57 AM
Im fine with him tributing the victory pose to his father.... but that second pose... jesus, looks like hes competeing with the bikini chicks for the "who can stick their ass out further in the 'ready to recieve cock' pose" award.

He should hit the side chest pose like his dad did...
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Rambone on June 15, 2014, 08:51:37 AM
Im fine with him tributing the victory pose to his father.... but that second pose... jesus, looks like hes competeing with the bikini chicks for the "who can stick their ass out further in the 'ready to recieve cock' pose" award.

x2
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Parker on June 15, 2014, 09:13:31 AM
I'll say this, at least his conditioning is better than his father's.
he also needs more chest thickness.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Mobil on June 15, 2014, 09:29:48 AM
he didnt inherit his fathers genes
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: SF1900 on June 15, 2014, 09:39:59 AM
Problem is that his arms are too long to do that pose. Looks better if you have shorter, thicker arms. His arms are too long and too "thin"

(http://www.bodybuilding-pics.com/131/images/Lee_Priest_photo143.jpg)

(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/big/2006/2006impics_irvnight439.jpg)
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: tjschoenborn on June 15, 2014, 10:15:07 AM
He did the same show in '09 and placed not better this yr
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: the trainer on June 15, 2014, 03:43:53 PM
Sergio need to step up his game he should have won this show to get on the hype train.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Parker on June 15, 2014, 04:50:52 PM
he didnt inherit his fathers genes
sure he did. Long bis/tris/forearms. I think he is taller than his dad though.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: musclecenter on June 15, 2014, 04:58:05 PM
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: 240 is Back on June 15, 2014, 05:02:51 PM
He's certainly gone "all out".

genetically, he doesn't have the arms his dad had.  And he sure didn't train and build that early base either. 

Still, he looks great and will be a top NPC guy, should have zero problem picking up endorsements, etc, with his name and physique.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 15, 2014, 05:44:42 PM
Far from his father..


Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: OTHstrong on June 15, 2014, 05:55:47 PM
I'll say this, at least his conditioning is better than his father's.
he also needs more chest thickness.
??? his conditioning sucks shit
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Shockwave on June 15, 2014, 05:57:44 PM
??? his conditioning sucks shit
His dads was worse though.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: OTHstrong on June 15, 2014, 06:05:15 PM
His dads was worse though.
true but even 30 bodybuilders at local shows have better conditioning then Sergio senior nowadays. Conditioning was poor back then
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: njflex on June 15, 2014, 07:50:17 PM
having that name is like being named pete rose jr,your already under a microscope especially if you try to advance in same sport/industry..
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: TheShape. on June 15, 2014, 08:15:06 PM
You always have to wonder what Patrick Schwarzenegger would look like if he got serious.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Mr Anabolic on June 16, 2014, 06:49:20 AM
 ::)

Needs to up the dose.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Sam on June 16, 2014, 07:13:19 AM
Lol, only on getbig would u get people busting some kids chops cos he is not as good as one of the greatest BB 's ever  :D
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: stavios on June 16, 2014, 01:49:31 PM
fuck bodybuilding, he looks great with a shirt on in that video

big and athletic looking

that's all that mathers

fuck looking good onstage
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: OTHstrong on June 16, 2014, 01:53:30 PM
fuck bodybuilding, he looks great with a shirt on in that video

big and athletic looking

that's all that mathers

fuck looking good onstage
I bet you he feels the opposite, anyone who competes would
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: stavios on June 16, 2014, 02:05:36 PM
I bet you he feels the opposite, anyone who competes would

Haha well, I'm kinda like that myself.
Look mediocre on stage, and on the street everybody think I look awesome

I don't think I'll compete again for that reason, waste of $$$ and time for me.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: njflex on June 16, 2014, 02:19:50 PM
Haha well, I'm kinda like that myself.
Look mediocre on stage, and on the street everybody think I look awesome

I don't think I'll compete again for that reason, waste of $$$ and time for me.

that's 2014 stavios ..2008/2010 wanted it all...your good to wise up,thats why your always welcomed back to your home here  ;D
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: stavios on June 16, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
that's 2014 stavios ..2008/2010 wanted it all...your good to wise up,thats why your always welcomed back to your home here  ;D

haha let me tell you buying a fucking house changed it all my friend !!
fucking taxes and bills never stop coming in, and I live all by myself it empty a wallet pretty fast !!
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: njflex on June 16, 2014, 02:34:33 PM
haha let me tell you buying a fucking house changed it all my friend !!
fucking taxes and bills never stop coming in, and I live all by myself it empty a wallet pretty fast !!
I KNOW..same but married and kids  :P
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: stavios on June 16, 2014, 02:35:25 PM
living the dream my friend  8)
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Eneuf79 on June 16, 2014, 02:38:25 PM
Embarrassing

It was even more embarrassing when joey swoll piped your wife
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Rambone on June 16, 2014, 04:20:55 PM
It was even more embarrassing when joey swoll piped your wife


Ooooooo them fighting words
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Danimal77 on June 16, 2014, 09:18:09 PM
.

That's quite the flawed physique. Where do I even start? TINY biceps... Tiny triceps. Non-existent chest. Small calves. Wide waist. Just a mess all around. Looked better in street clothes.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Danimal77 on June 16, 2014, 09:21:48 PM
You always have to wonder what Patrick Schwarzenegger would look like if he got serious.

You're forgetting that Patrick also has his mother's genes too ;-)
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Danimal77 on June 16, 2014, 09:23:08 PM
::)

Needs to up the dose.

Dude, even that wouldn't help him.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Smokincrazy on June 16, 2014, 10:57:09 PM
The kid got booted from Gaspari already didn't he?
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Parker on June 16, 2014, 11:06:01 PM
That's quite the flawed physique. Where do I even start? TINY biceps... Tiny triceps. Non-existent chest. Small calves. Wide waist. Just a mess all around. Looked better in street clothes.
He's 6'0 tall, so it is going to take him awhile to fill out.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Parker on June 16, 2014, 11:09:45 PM
The rest of the contest pics
http://contests.npcnewsonline.com/contests/2014/npc_junior_nationals/sergio_oliva_jr/  (http://contests.npcnewsonline.com/contests/2014/npc_junior_nationals/sergio_oliva_jr/)
The full pic of his version of the Victory pose
(http://contests.npcnewsonline.com/images/contests/148/large/735320.jpg)
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: falco on June 17, 2014, 04:12:37 AM
He should hang out with CT Fletcher for a whole year to bring his arms up.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Archer77 on June 17, 2014, 04:22:27 AM
Lol, only on getbig would u get people busting some kids chops cos he is not as good as one of the greatest BB 's ever  :D

If I were him I wouldn't even bother with Bodybuilding.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Pet shop boys on June 17, 2014, 06:00:36 AM
You always have to wonder what Patrick Schwarzenegger would look like if he got serious.

Nah, the latino Oak will always b the sure bet...  (in Arnolds genes).


WoooSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Parker on June 17, 2014, 06:05:23 AM
He should hang out with CT Fletcher for a whole year to bring his arms up.
Yep, because talking to them nicely while working out is not working. One needs to learn how to yell and curse at them... "I COMMAND You to grow" ;D
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Rambone on June 17, 2014, 07:59:14 AM
The rest of the contest pics
http://contests.npcnewsonline.com/contests/2014/npc_junior_nationals/sergio_oliva_jr/  (http://contests.npcnewsonline.com/contests/2014/npc_junior_nationals/sergio_oliva_jr/)
The full pic of his version of the Victory pose
(http://contests.npcnewsonline.com/images/contests/148/large/735320.jpg)

Looks like he may have his old man beat in the wheels department
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Parker on June 17, 2014, 08:54:46 AM
Looks like he may have his old man beat in the wheels department
I was thinking that as well.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Nick Danger on June 17, 2014, 09:03:53 AM
Much more athletic looking build than today's top bodybuilders...
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: THEBOSS on June 17, 2014, 11:05:47 AM
Looks like he may have his old man beat in the wheels department
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=539205.0;attach=568136;image   NO
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Rambone on June 17, 2014, 12:03:26 PM
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=539205.0;attach=568136;image   NO

You're using a photo from the best shoot of his life. On stage, they weren't that impressive compared to the rest of his physique.


(http://www.trulyhuge.com/arnold-vs-sergio.jpg)
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: the trainer on June 17, 2014, 12:14:35 PM
Haha well, I'm kinda like that myself.
Look mediocre on stage, and on the street everybody think I look awesome

I don't think I'll compete again for that reason, waste of $$$ and time for me.


You are a quitter and if fat fucks are telling you on the street that you look great in comparison to them, that is not a compliment.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Parker on June 17, 2014, 12:20:26 PM
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=539205.0;attach=568136;image   NO
Junior's got him, but that would be expected in today's day and age.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Papper on June 17, 2014, 03:27:08 PM
I always said it.. He doesn't have the wow factor of his father

It's all about proportions. His father was a cartoon

It's not surprising either. Sergio was one of a kind like all the greats
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Neptune100 on June 17, 2014, 05:45:03 PM
Olivia Jr. looks awesome. Keep building arms and chest and will be pro .
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: TheShape. on June 18, 2014, 09:15:57 PM
(http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/attachments/professional-muscle-forum/18775d1212358544-sergio-oliva-jr-sergiooliva35.jpg)
Insane even for modern bodybuilding.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: OTHstrong on June 18, 2014, 10:11:07 PM
(http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/attachments/professional-muscle-forum/18775d1212358544-sergio-oliva-jr-sergiooliva35.jpg)
Insane even for modern bodybuilding.
out of this world proportions
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: THEBOSS on June 18, 2014, 11:18:44 PM
You're using a photo from the best shoot of his life. On stage, they weren't that impressive compared to the rest of his physique.


(http://www.trulyhuge.com/arnold-vs-sergio.jpg)
   His thighs were larger then his waste and better in every way then  his sons ! And at his best his legs were as impressive as the rest of him .   PS Both upper and lower legs at that
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: njflex on June 19, 2014, 05:33:22 AM
SERGIO was a freak...Sergio jr is a good bber.big difference.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Rambone on June 19, 2014, 05:47:40 AM
   His thighs were larger then his waste and better in every way then  his sons ! And at his best his legs were as impressive as the rest of him .   PS Both upper and lower legs at that

Sergio Sr. would look better today than his son with more drugs, but simply comparing onstage legs, Jr. beats him.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: thulsaDOOM210 on June 19, 2014, 05:49:43 AM
The insertions are very similar. You gotta factor  in mom's genes as well.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Pet shop boys on June 19, 2014, 06:08:21 AM
Sergio Sr. would look better today than his son with more drugs, but simply comparing onstage legs, Jr. beats him.

Not a fair comparison ....


WoooSSHHHHHHHH
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Danimal77 on June 19, 2014, 11:41:55 PM
Sergio Sr. would look better today than his son with more drugs, but simply comparing onstage legs, Jr. beats him.

Not in the calves dept. he doesn't.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Bevo on June 20, 2014, 12:18:13 AM
He's 6'0 tall, so it is going to take him awhile to fill out.

Is he even 6 ft? Looks 5'10 ish but that's good height for bbing
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Archer77 on June 20, 2014, 04:13:17 AM
He's 6'0 tall, so it is going to take him awhile to fill out.

Its unfair to compare the kid to one of the greats like his father but I dont think he has a good structure.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Rambone on June 20, 2014, 05:08:15 AM
Not in the calves dept. he doesn't.
Ask former Mr. Olympia Dexter Jackson or the reigning Arnold Classic winner on the importance of calves in bodybuilding.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: wes on June 20, 2014, 05:12:10 AM
Kid looks great....I see him going far in the near future as long as he keeps plugging along.

You can`t fairly compare his leg seperation to a 1970`s Sergio Sr., as leg seperation as commonly seen today was a rarity back in the day.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: 240 is Back on June 20, 2014, 05:19:49 AM
most of the BBers from the 70s would EASILY have some swole up legs (and shoulders) simply by running the gear that they use today.  I'd wager they trained legs WAY HARDER back then. 
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: wes on June 20, 2014, 05:21:52 AM
most of the BBers from the 70s would EASILY have some swole up legs (and shoulders) simply by running the gear that they use today.  I'd wager they trained legs WAY HARDER back then. 
They trained every bodypart much harder as a rule.

Todays drug reliers would have one helluva` time making it through aone workout......never mind 6 of them a week.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Pet shop boys on June 20, 2014, 06:08:48 AM
most of the BBers from the 70s would EASILY have some swole up legs (and shoulders) simply by running the gear that they use today.  I'd wager they trained legs WAY HARDER back then. 


X2.


WoooSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: WEIBK on June 20, 2014, 06:21:23 AM
.
HE LOOKS GREAT AND NEED MORE TRAINING TO REACH TO THE TOP. ONE DAY WE WILL BE. GOD KOWS WHEN.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: THEBOSS on June 20, 2014, 07:22:52 AM
Sergio Sr. would look better today than his son with more drugs, but simply comparing onstage legs, Jr. beats him.
;D LOL . So you compare DADS worst pic with JUNIORS best . Dads were better in every way .
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Rambone on June 20, 2014, 07:27:32 AM
;D LOL . So you compare DADS worst pic with JUNIORS best . Dads were better in every way .


You compared Jr. with Sr's best photoshoot ever, and I compared his son's latest contest to Sergio on the Olympia stage. JR's has size and separation. Sr never had that kind of separation given the era and the drugs available. All I said was that Jr. had him on wheels. I don't think his son's future is all that great but of course his latest contest pics are his best because the guy is young and improving, but that's common sense.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: the trainer on June 20, 2014, 07:31:40 AM
Have you seen they way bodybuilders today train I go to youtube and look up some of the new pros and they just crawl from machine to machine its so boring I cant watch, give me old school bodybuilders training anyday.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Gregzs on June 21, 2014, 10:16:40 PM
Jr. with Hunter Labrada

(https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10494867_10154319922155377_4356798047562697856_n.jpg?oh=ba3df9bb0d95bbfc0b0fc07a032fa0a0&oe=542216BD)
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Strongmanfan on May 25, 2017, 11:44:16 AM
Getbig is a bunch of dicks?

Comparing SERGIO JR. to one of the greatest ever at this young age = irrational.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Megalodon on May 25, 2017, 12:00:55 PM
Getbig is a bunch of dicks?

Comparing SERGIO JR. to one of the greatest ever at this young age = irrational.

Sergio SR. won all his Mr. O's by age 28.     Sergio JR. is around 33.  Even in 2014 he was 30.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: IronMagazine.com on May 25, 2017, 12:11:49 PM
He must have got his mother's genetics, he will never be his dad.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Strongmanfan on May 25, 2017, 01:37:59 PM
Sergio SR. won all his Mr. O's by age 28.     Sergio JR. is around 33.  Even in 2014 he was 30.

In the Generation Iron interview, Sergio Jr. stated that Sergio Sr. lied on his birth certificate when he defected to the USA, and was actually close to 80 when he passed away in 2012.  I took that to mean that Sr. was born around 1935.

If so, that means he was 33 in 1968.  Something like that.

So I suppose we would have to compare it to around then.

And it is safe to say he does not have his dad's genetics......but I do think his genetics are very good.
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: kepler2008 on May 25, 2017, 01:46:57 PM

(http://www.musculardevelopment.com//contests/1975-new-york-pro/2017//1975-new-york-pro-10066_final.JPG)
Title: Re: Sergio Oliva Jr. at NPC Jr. Nationals 2014
Post by: Megalodon on May 25, 2017, 01:53:41 PM
In the Generation Iron interview, Sergio Jr. stated that Sergio Sr. lied on his birth certificate when he defected to the USA, and was actually close to 80 when he passed away in 2012.  I took that to mean that Sr. was born around 1935.

If so, that means he was 33 in 1968.  Something like that.

So I suppose we would have to compare it to around then.

And it is safe to say he does not have his dad's genetics......but I do think his genetics are very good.

I agree, JR. does have good genetics.   SR.  had serious "less is more" type genetics like super small waist, knees, hips, even head. For example, he doesn't dwarf the photographer as a human being standing side by side but same photo shoot, posing alone(below), no context, he looks bigger than imaginable.