Author Topic: Obama's illegal war  (Read 67742 times)

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #800 on: July 01, 2011, 01:17:29 PM »
Source: The Guardian

The son of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has claimed that Nato has offered the regime an "under the table" deal that would see the international arrest warrants against both men dropped.

Saif al-Islam Gaddafi vehemently denied that he or his father ordered the killing of civilian protesters, as charged this week by the international criminal court (ICC).

In his first interview since the charges were brought, Saif alleged that western powers had proposed sacrificing the independence of the ICC to negotiate an end to Libya's civil war.

"It's a fake court," he told Russian news channel RT in an interview released on Friday. "Under the table they are trying to negotiate with us a deal: 'If you accept this deal, we will take care of the court.' What does it mean? It means the court is controlled by those countries which are attacking us every day. It is just to put a psychological and political pressure on us."

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/01/gaddafi-son...

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #801 on: July 01, 2011, 06:20:12 PM »
Free Republic
Browse · Search   Pings · Mail   News/Activism
Topics · Post Article
Skip to comments.

Libya's abandoned stockpiles attract smugglers
Reuters ^ | Fri Jul 1, 2011 2:36pm EDT | Maria Golovnina
Posted on July 1, 2011 8:02:45 PM EDT by Pan_Yan

(Reuters) - Packed to its limit with crates of artillery shells, the once-secret military base in the eastern Libyan desert is now open to anyone looking for an easy way to stock up on free ammunition.

Ringed by a minefield but otherwise abandoned, the facility was once heavily guarded by Muammar Gaddafi's troops until they fled when the site came under a NATO air strike earlier in the war.

With most of its bunkers still intact, the base near the rebel-held town of Ajdabiyah is now frequented by visitors of a different kind: from looters scavenging for scrap metal to potentially more shadowy characters.

Abandoned sites such as this are at the center of Western concerns that stockpiles of Libyan weapons and ammunition could fall into the wrong hands at a time when global trade in black market arms is thriving from Africa to Latin America.

Experts say that like dozens of other unsecured Libyan military bases, the site could attract militant groups and organized crime cartels. Rebels have tapped into the stockpiles as well, mainly to make improvised weapons for the frontline.

When Reuters visited the Ajdabiyah site this week, groups of men, their faces hidden underneath checkered turbans, were seen scuttling into the bunkers and selecting ammunition cases.

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...







Obama is taking operation fast and furious worldwide.     

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #802 on: July 02, 2011, 08:51:45 AM »
"Obama is taking operation fast and furious worldwide.     "

Don't worry - FOX news is doing a saturday expose on "should animals be allowed to have sex in zoos where children can witness it"?


I think once they cover this huge problem, they can address obama feeding world terror.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63875
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #803 on: July 03, 2011, 02:03:29 PM »
African Union: Members will not cooperate with Gadhafi warrant
By the CNN Wire Staff
July 3, 2011

(CNN) -- The African Union says its members will not cooperate with the International Criminal Court's arrest warrant for Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, arguing that the measure jeopardizes efforts to negotiate a peace deal in the war-torn nation.

The arrest warrant "seriously complicates the efforts aimed at finding a negotiated political solution to the crisis in Libya," said a statement summarizing the countries' decision at a summit in Equatorial Guinea that ended Friday.

A three-judge panel at court in the Hague in the Netherlands issued arrest warrants June 27 for Gadhafi, his son Saif al-Islam Gadhafi and his brother-in-law Abdullah al-Sanussi.

The warrants are "for crimes against humanity," including murder and persecution, "allegedly committed across Libya" from February 15 through "at least" February 28, the court said in a statement.

The court's judges said the arrests were necessary "to ensure their appearances before the court," ensure that the three "do not continue to obstruct and endanger the court's investigations" and "prevent them from using their powers to continue the commission of crimes."

Libya is not a signatory to the Rome Statute that established the international court's authority, and the court does not have the power to enter Libya and arrest the leaders.

Gadhafi has made clear he would not recognize the court's authority.

Some analysts said last week that the court's move could damage efforts to get Gadhafi to end his 42-year reign, stopping him from leaving the country for fear of being prosecuted.

"In effect, the ICC arrest warrant tells Gadhafi to fight to the death," said Michael Rubin, an analyst with the conservative American Enterprise Institute.

Speaking to reporters after the court issued the warrants last week, chief prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo batted away questions from reporters about whether an ICC arrest warrant would discourage Gadhafi from stepping down.

He said the decision to investigate Gadhafi came from a unanimous U.N. Security Council resolution, not the court.

The U.N. Security Council referred the matter to the ICC through a resolution February 26, following widespread complaints about Gadhafi's efforts to crush a rebellion.

In a statement Sunday, a spokesman for the British Foreign Office called on Gadhafi to end violence and leave office, noting that the NATO coalition's aim was to protect civilians, not arrange a safe exit for the Libyan leader.

"We have been clear that those responsible should be held to account. The ultimate political objective is to facilitate a transition to a stable, democratic Libya," the spokesman said in a statement. "To achieve this, Gadhafi must step down, and leave Libya to the Libyan people."

On Sunday South African President Jacob Zuma was scheduled to head to Russia for a meeting of the International Contact Group on Libya.

The situation in Libya is slated to be a top agenda item at a Russia-NATO Council meeting Monday, Russia's state-run RIA Novosti news agency reported, citing the Kremlin.

NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen will meet with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev as part of the meeting in Russia's Black Sea resort town of Sochi, the news agency reported.

"The sole possibility of stabilizing the situation in Libya is an immediate cease-fire and the start of talks between the internal Libyan participants in the conflict with the support of, but not interference from, outside," the Kremlin said, according to RIA Novosti.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/07/03/libya.war/index.html?hpt=hp_p1&iref=NS1

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #804 on: July 05, 2011, 01:10:35 PM »

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #805 on: July 10, 2011, 03:32:31 PM »
France tells Libya rebels to seek peace with Gaddafi (Obama's losing his illegal war)
reuters ^ | 7/10/2011 | By Lamine Chikhi
Posted on July 10, 2011 6:15:27 PM EDT by tobyhill

A French minister said on Sunday it was time for Libya's rebels to negotiate with Muammar Gaddafi's government, but Washington said it stood firm in its belief that the Libyan leader cannot stay in power.

The diverging messages from two leading members of the Western coalition opposing Gaddafi hinted at the strain the alliance is under after more than three months of air strikes that have cost billions of dollars and failed to produce the swift outcome its backers had expected.

French Defense Minister Gerard Longuet signaled growing impatience with the progress of the conflict when he said the rebels should negotiate now with Gaddafi's government and not wait for his defeat.

The rebels have so far refused to hold talks as long as Gaddafi is still in power, a stance which before now none of NATO's major powers has publicly challenged.

"We have .... have asked them to speak to each other," Longuet, whose government has until now been among the most hawkish on Libya, said on French television station BFM TV.

"The position of the TNC (rebel Transitional National Council) is very far from other positions. Now, there will be a need to sit around a table," he said."

Asked if it was possible to hold talks if Gaddafi had not stepped down, Longuet said: "He will be in another room in his palace with another title."

Soon after, the State Department in Washington issued a message that gave no hint of compromise.

"The Libyan people will be the ones to decide how this transition takes place, but we stand firm in our belief that Gaddafi cannot remain in power," the department said in a written reply to a query.

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #806 on: July 12, 2011, 06:39:06 PM »
Some NATO allies in Libya exhausted in 90 days
 Reuters ^ | Monday, July 11, 2011






BAGHDAD, July 11 (Reuters) - New U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said on Monday that some NATO allies operating in Libya could see their forces "exhausted" within 90 days.

"The problem right now, frankly, in Libya is that ... within the next 90 days a lot of these other countries could be exhausted in terms of their capabilities, and so the United States, you know, is going to be looked at to help fill the gap," Panetta said, speaking to troops in Baghdad.

He did not say which countries he was referring to, or what the U.S. response would be to calls for help.

NATO warplanes have been bombing Libya under a U.N. mandate to prevent civilians from Muammar Gaddafi's forces, but the alliance is under mounting strain because of the cost of the operation and the failure, after more than three months, to produce a decisive outcome.

Panetta, on his first trip to Iraq since taking the Pentagon's top job on July 1, called on NATO members to do more the ensure the viability of the alliance.

His comments echoed those of his predecessor, Robert Gates, who stepped down at the end of June. Gates warned that NATO risked collective military irrelevance unless allies bore more of the burden for military spending.

"They're going to have to develop their defense capabilities. They're going to have to invest in that kind of partnership as well. We can't be the ones to carry the financial burden in all of these situations. Others have got to do it as well..." Panetta said.

"I'm a believer in partnerships but when you talk about partnerships, dammit you gotta be partners.


(Excerpt) Read more at af.reuters.com ...

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63875
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #807 on: July 12, 2011, 06:53:55 PM »
Some NATO allies in Libya exhausted in 90 days
 Reuters ^ | Monday, July 11, 2011






BAGHDAD, July 11 (Reuters) - New U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said on Monday that some NATO allies operating in Libya could see their forces "exhausted" within 90 days.

"The problem right now, frankly, in Libya is that ... within the next 90 days a lot of these other countries could be exhausted in terms of their capabilities, and so the United States, you know, is going to be looked at to help fill the gap," Panetta said, speaking to troops in Baghdad.

He did not say which countries he was referring to, or what the U.S. response would be to calls for help.

NATO warplanes have been bombing Libya under a U.N. mandate to prevent civilians from Muammar Gaddafi's forces, but the alliance is under mounting strain because of the cost of the operation and the failure, after more than three months, to produce a decisive outcome.

Panetta, on his first trip to Iraq since taking the Pentagon's top job on July 1, called on NATO members to do more the ensure the viability of the alliance.

His comments echoed those of his predecessor, Robert Gates, who stepped down at the end of June. Gates warned that NATO risked collective military irrelevance unless allies bore more of the burden for military spending.

"They're going to have to develop their defense capabilities. They're going to have to invest in that kind of partnership as well. We can't be the ones to carry the financial burden in all of these situations. Others have got to do it as well..." Panetta said.

"I'm a believer in partnerships but when you talk about partnerships, dammit you gotta be partners.


(Excerpt) Read more at af.reuters.com ...


We can't fill the gap.  This is a non-kinetic war.   ::)

Kazan

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6803
  • Sic vis pacem, parabellum
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #808 on: July 12, 2011, 07:14:23 PM »
Wow what a surprise, you can't win war with incompetent forces on the ground. So either there is a invasion with ground forces or for all intensive purposes Gadhaffi wins and NATO looks like a bunch of fools.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #809 on: July 12, 2011, 07:17:09 PM »
All the more reason to leave NATO and pull all military support of Europe. Let's see how well these bankrupt Eurotrash states do when they have the added costs of their own defense. No more 1% of GDP devoted to defense and renting out the US military whenever they feel like it.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #810 on: July 12, 2011, 07:54:01 PM »
Libyan Rebels Accused of Pillage and Beatings in Towns They Captured
New York Times ^ | July 12, 2011 | C.J. Chivers
Posted on July 12, 2011 10:36:44 PM EDT by SunkenCiv

Rebels in the mountains in Libya's west have looted and damaged four towns seized since last month from the forces of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, part of a series of abuses and apparent reprisals against suspected loyalists that have chased residents of these towns away, Human Rights Watch said Tuesday.

The looting included many businesses and at least two medical centers that, like the towns, are now deserted and bare.

Rebel fighters also beat people suspected of being loyalists and burned their homes, the organization said.

The towns that have suffered the abuses are Qawalish, which rebels seized last week, Awaniya, Rayaniyah and Zawiyat al-Bagul, which fell to the rebels last month. Some of the abuses, Human Rights Watch said, were directed against members of the Mashaashia tribe, which has long supported Colonel Qaddafi.

The organization's findings come as support for the war has waned in Europe and in Washington, where Republicans and Democrats alike have questioned American participation on budgetary and legal grounds.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...





TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: dncwar; israel; libya; obama4alqaeda; obamaswar; obamaswar4libya; Click to Add Keyword

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #811 on: July 13, 2011, 08:37:01 PM »
Free Republic
Browse · Search   Pings · Mail   News/Activism
Topics · Post Article
Skip to comments.

Libyan rebels face counter attack from Gaddafi's forces
BBC News ^ | 13 July 2011
Posted on July 13, 2011 4:46:05 PM EDT by MinorityRepublican

Colonel Gaddafi's forces have begun a counter attack in western Libya, against rebels who have been fighting hard to advance towards the capital of Tripoli.

Civilians in the area have already fled their homes as the front line of the conflict moves back and forth in the Nafusa mountains.

Paul Wood reports from Gualish, a village caught in the crossfire.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #812 on: July 14, 2011, 07:02:43 AM »
A Dumb and Dumber War in Libya
Townhall.com ^ | July 14, 2011 | Victor Davis Hanson


________________________ ________________________ ____



Almost daily over the last four months we were told that Muammar Gadhafi was about ready to throw in the towel and give up.

Libya, after all, is not a distant Afghanistan or Iraq with a population of some 30 million. Yet this tiny police state of less than 7 million people, conveniently located on the Mediterranean Sea opposite nearby Europe, continues to thwart the three great powers of the NATO alliance and thousands of "Arab Spring" rebels.

In March, President Obama ordered the use of American bombers and cruise missiles to join in with the French and British to finish off the tottering Gadhafi regime. Obama was apparently stung by liberal criticism that the U.S. had done little to help rebels in their weeks-long effort to remove Gadhafi -- after only belatedly supporting the successful revolutionaries in Tunisia and Egypt.

Months ago, intervention to the Obama administration seemed a short, painless way of ridding the world of a decades-long international menace while gaining praise for helping "democratic" reformers. Oil, of course, is always a subtext in any Middle Eastern war.

But almost immediately contradictions arose. Sometimes we ordered Gadhafi to leave; at other times we insisted we were only helping the rebels. Bombs seemed to be aimed at the Gadhafi family, even as we denied such targeted killing -- and were reminded that U.S. law forbids the assassination of foreign leaders.

The rebels were variously described as would-be democratic reformers, inept amateurs, hard-core Islamists, or mixtures of all three. No one seems to have answers months later, though many insurgents share a deep-seeded racial and religious hatred of Gadhafi's African mercenaries. Who knows whether post-Gadhafi Libya will become an Islamic republic, a Somalia-like mess, another Arab dictatorship or a Turkish-style democracy?

The more NATO forces destroyed Gadhafi's tanks, artillery, planes and boats, the more the unhinged dictator seemed to cling to power. Western leaders had forgotten that Gadhafi lost a war with Egypt in 1977, lost a war with Chad in 1987, and came out on the losing end of Ronald Reagan's bombing campaign in 1986 -- and yet clung to power and remains the planet's longest-ruling dictator. Terror, oil, cash reserves and a loyal mercenary army are a potent combination.

The Obama administration asked for legal authorization from the Arab League -- the majority of whose member states are not democratic -- and the U.N., but to this day strangely has not requested authorization from Congress. As Obama sought legitimacy within international authorizations, he failed to note that no U.N. or Arab League resolution actually had allowed him to conduct a full-scale air war against Gadhafi's ruling clique. The Chinese and Russians are both happy to keep pointing that out.

Both conservatives and liberals were flabbergasted by the sudden preemptive war. Conservatives who supported the messy efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq were reluctant to champion a third one in Libya without congressional authority and with no clearly stated mission or methodology. When we entered an on-again/off-again cycle of operations, Republicans charged that a weakened, fiscally insolvent America was sort of "leading from behind."

Liberals were appalled that the president, who, as a senator, had always praised the War Powers Act, was now ordering his legal team to find ingenious ways of bypassing it. If this was to be a multilateral, un-Bush war, why then did it split NATO apart? Roughly half the members declined to participate. Both Germany and Italy soon openly opposed the effort. And now the instigator, France, seems to want to bail.

The left had also decried Western attacks on oil-exporting Muslim countries, but now liberal-in-chief Barack Obama was doing just that. Indeed, the antiwar president who promised to end the Bush Mideast wars had suddenly expanded them into a third theater. The more the war dragged on, the more the Arab world was torn between hating Gadhafi and hating Obama's bombs.

The odious Gadhafi has been an international pariah for most of his tenure, funding terrorists, killing Americans and murdering dissidents. But even as the bombs were dropped, he was a monster in the midst of rehab. By late 2010 his jet-setting family was being courted by Western intellectuals, reestablishing diplomatic relations with the United States, offering oil concessions to the West, and being praised as a partner in the war against radical Islamic terrorism.

Then, with a snap of the fingers, in early 2011 Gadhafi was suddenly reinvented as a Saddam Hussein-like ogre and dodging Western cruise missiles and bombs targeted at his person.

What is next?

The general consensus, from both left and right, is that we should finish the misadventure as quickly as possible. Apparently, the only thing worse than starting a stupid, unnecessary war against a madman is losing it.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #813 on: July 14, 2011, 06:56:58 PM »
Free Republic
Browse · Search   Pings · Mail   News/Activism
Topics · Post Article
Skip to comments.

Libya: Rebel and NATO attack on oil city repulsed
Associated Press ^ | 07.14.11
Posted on July 14, 2011 7:10:20 PM EDT by MinorityRepublican

TRIPOLI, Libya -- Libyan forces repelled a coordinated attack by NATO forces and rebels against a strategic oil town in the east of the country, the government spokesman said Thursday.

The announcement came as Libya also barred Italy, one of the country's largest investors, from its oil sector because of Rome's role in the NATO airstrikes.

Moussa Ibrahim told journalists that rebel forces attacked the town of Brega backed by NATO forces in the sea and air in a coordinated attack that he said violated the alliance's U.N. mandate to protect civilians.

"It was a full scale attack and it was heavy and merciless," he said. "We were successful in combating this attack and we did defeat both NATO and the rebels and we killed many rebel forces and captured a good number of them as well."

Ibrahim's assessment of the fighting could not immediately be verified.

NATO is enforcing a no-fly zone over Libya and hitting government targets as part of a U.N. mandate to protect civilians. It is not, however, supposed to be the military arm of rebel ground forces, which have been trying to retake Brega for months.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...










Fail.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #814 on: July 15, 2011, 07:29:25 AM »
The Libyan War ends. Obama makes Moscow peace broker. NATO halts strikes
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report July 14, 2011, 11:42 AM (GMT+02:00) Tags:  Libya   Muammar Qaddafi   Barack Obama   Dmitry Medvedev   


http://www.debka.com/article/21115



NATO   Pro-Qaddafi rally in TripoliBar the shouting, the war in Libya virtually ended Thursday morning, July 14, when US President Barack Obama called Russian President Dmitry Medvedev to hand Moscow the lead role in negotiations with Muammar Qaddafi for ending the conflict - provided only that the Libyan ruler steps down in favor of a transitional administration.

The US president thus accepted the Russian-Libyan formula for ending the war over the heads of the NATO chiefs who rejected it when they met Russian leaders at the Black Sea resort of Sochi last week.

debkafile's sources note that this same proposal first came from the Libyan ruler himself four months ago: On April 4, just ten days after NATO launched its air operation on behalf of the Libyan rebels, Qaddafi sent emissaries to Athens to propose Greek Prime Minister Georges Papandreou as mediator. The heads of NATO, French President Nicolas Sarkozy and British Prime Minister David Cameron, turned him down, certain at the time they were within easy reach of a quick victory to topple him.

By the time Obama had decided to call Medvedev, individual governments which had spearheaded the anti-Qaddafi campaign were quietly melting away.
From Saturday, July 9, debkafile's military sources report, NATO discontinued its air strikes against Libyan pro-government targets in Tripoli and other places.  The halt though unannounced was nonetheless an admission that 15,000 flight missions and 6,000 bombardments of Qaddafi targets had failed to achieve their object: Col. Qaddafi, without deploying a single fighter jet, firing an anti-air missile or activating terrorist cells in Europe, had waited for NATO to run out of steam and was still in power.

In an overview of the war to British air force commanders Wednesday, July 13, British Defense Secretary Liam Fox remarked that while no one knows when it will end, British ground corps, naval and air forces do not have the means to continue the war.

He admitted candidly that sustaining the high tempo of air strikes by RAF Tornado and Typhoons, as well as Navy warships and Army Apache attack helicopters, did "increase the pressure on both personnel and equipment as planning assumptions are tested, and it tests the ability of defense companies to support front-line operations."

In early June, debkafile's military sources reported that NATO was short of warplanes for enforcing the no- fly zone over Libyan air space approved by the UN Security Council, its arsenals of smart bombs and missiles were depleted and its stocks of munitions and replacement parts almost down to zero.
This has now been confirmed by the British defense secretary, who added that British and European military industries lack the capacity for supporting a war effort that goes beyond a few weeks.

Our military sources disclose that Italy, a key player in NATO's military effort, last week secretly withdrew its Air Force Garibaldi-551 planes from the campaign – dealing the operation another grave setback.
And in the last 10 days, France has also scaled back the military assets it had invested in the fighting after despairing of the anti-Qaddafi rebels based in Benghazi ever making headway against Qaddafi's forces. First, Paris tried to transfer its backing from Benghazi to the secessionist Berber tribes fighting Qaddafi in Western Libya. On June 30, President Nicolas Sarkozy ordered weapons to be parachuted to the tribal fighters in western Libya, contrary to UN and NATO decisions. But the Berbers preferred to use the French guns for plundering towns and villages instead of fighting government forces.

On Monday, July 11, after that experience, Defense Secretary Gerard Longuet said it was time for talks to begin between Qaddafi and the rebels. Paris, he said, had asked the two sides to begin negotiations.

This was backhanded confirmation of the claim Qaddafi's son Saif al-Islam made to the French media that his father was engaged in contacts for ending the war through emissaries who met with President Sarkozy.

While Minister Longuet said the Libyan ruler cannot stay in power, he refrained from demanding his ouster by force or his expulsion from the country. This formula therefore came close to Qaddafi's terms for ending the war.

debkafile's diplomatic sources hail the agreement Presidents Obama and Medvedev reached on terms for negotiating the war's end with Muammar Qaddafi as a major victory for the Libyan ruler and a resounding fiasco for NATO.

It also knocks over the international war crimes tribunal's demand to extradite Qaddafi and his sons as war criminals.

Instead of sitting in the dock of the world court, they will now take their seats at the negotiating table for a deal one of whose objects will be to rescue NATO from the humiliation of defeat at war. But its main purpose will be to agree on the shape of a regime for the transition to democracy and its makeup. Qaddafi, while consenting to step down, will not doubt insist on his sons and loyalists being co-opted with full privileges to the future administration in Tripoli. The rebels will take up the offer for lack of any other options.

Libyan diplomacy is liable to be protracted and exhausting with many ups and downs and perhaps even limited military engagements on the ground.








________________________ ____________


Jesus, what a frigging failure Obama is.    Disaster.   

Kazan

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6803
  • Sic vis pacem, parabellum
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #815 on: July 15, 2011, 07:52:07 AM »
I'm at a loss, what a fucking waste of time and resources. All to accomplish what could have been accomplished 4 months ago without all this BS in the first place.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #816 on: July 15, 2011, 07:55:06 AM »
240, blacken, benny, vince, mal, et al could care less.


Obama could rape their mother and sister in front of them and they was say "Can I have one too please?"     

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #817 on: July 15, 2011, 07:57:48 AM »
240, blacken, benny, vince, mal, et al could care less.


Obama could rape their mother and sister in front of them and they was say "Can I have one too please?"     

now that's great talking about peoples moms

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #818 on: July 15, 2011, 09:02:48 AM »
how many libyans were killed in the last few months?  how many americans died to do so?  How weak and depleted is the libyan govt and military?  how has their strategic power in negotiating oil sales to europe been weakened?

;)


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #819 on: July 15, 2011, 09:08:41 AM »
how many libyans were killed in the last few months?  how many americans died to do so?  How weak and depleted is the libyan govt and military?  how has their strategic power in negotiating oil sales to europe been weakened?

;)



 ::)

Kazan

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6803
  • Sic vis pacem, parabellum
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #820 on: July 15, 2011, 09:10:57 AM »
how many libyans were killed in the last few months?  how many americans died to do so?  How weak and depleted is the libyan govt and military?  how has their strategic power in negotiating oil sales to europe been weakened?

;)



So depleting the Libyan military has done what exactly? Make the country more likely to be taken over by Islamist? Europe is going to reap the whirlwind for this little exercise in futility.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #821 on: July 15, 2011, 07:39:21 PM »
Free Republic
Browse · Search   Pings · Mail   News/Activism
Topics · Post Article
Skip to comments.

Libya Rebels Get Formal Backing, and $30 Billion
NYT ^ | Published: July 15, 2011 | By SEBNEM ARSU and STEVEN ERLANGER
Posted on July 15, 2011 10:18:25 PM EDT by Borough Park

ISTANBUL — The United States formally recognized the rebel leadership in Libya as the country’s legitimate government on Friday, allowing the rebel government access to $30 billion in Libyan assets held in the United States. It is not yet clear how and when the money would be released. Enlarge This Image

Osman Orsal/Reuters Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton attended the meeting on Libya in Istanbul on Friday. Multimedia

TimesCast | Libyan Rebels Recognized Readers’ Comments Share your thoughts. Post a Comment » Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said at an international gathering held to discuss the Libyan conflict that Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi’s government no longer had any legitimacy, and that the United States would join more than 30 countries in extending diplomatic recognition to the main opposition group, known as the Transitional National Council.

“We will help the T.N.C. sustain its commitment to the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and national unity of Libya,” Mrs. Clinton said, “and we will look to it to remain steadfast in its commitment to human rights and fundamental freedoms.”

The decision by Washington not only increased diplomatic pressure on Colonel Qaddafi to step down, but also held the prospect of funneling money to rebels to propel an offensive that has proceeded in fits and starts.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...

TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: Click to Add Keyword

[ Report Abuse | Bookmark ]

1 posted on July 15, 2011 10:18:29 PM EDT by Borough Park





Wtf is this? 

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #822 on: July 19, 2011, 11:18:58 AM »
About    |    Archive    |    E-mail    |    Log In to Comment

The Road to Obama Runs Through Libya
By Stanley Kurtz
Posted on July 18, 2011 10:41 AM





We still don’t get Obama. By “we,” I mean Americans generally, many conservatives included. Whatever his critics may say, Obama does know how to lead. He understands exactly where he is taking us. What strikes many as policy confusion or timidity is really just the tension between Obama’s pragmatist cover and his deeply ideological long-term goals. Oddly, Obama’s apparently quirky and confused Libya policy may now be the most effective example of how his seemingly reluctant leadership-style dovetails with his long-term transformative aspirations, foreign and domestic.

I’ve already made this argument in “Samantha Power’s Power,” but two important new articles now lay out a parallel case from very different points of view.

“The Obama Doctrine Defined,” by Douglas J. Feith and Seth Cropsey, the cover story of this summer’s issue of Commentary, is an excellent place to begin unraveling the mystery of Obama. Feith and Cropsey explain that up to now, Obama’s policies in Iraq and Afghanistan have been pragmatic concessions to political reality. They also show how Obama’s sometimes conventional-sounding foreign policy pronouncements mask goals that are far more “novel and grand,” the displacement of national interest as the core guide to American foreign policy and its replacement with an effort to bring about equality among nations. While Obama sometimes appears to take his critics’ complaints to heart — so as to seem a non-ideological pragmatist — Feith and Cropsey emphasize that what they call Obama’s “corkscrew approach” amounts to a sly redefinition of “American leadership” into our supervision of the process by which our interests are subordinated to others.

For the unhappy details of the foreign-policy outlook Obama is advancing, consult Feith-Cropsey yourself. There you will find material, not only from the writings of Samantha Power, but from other key Obama aides like Anne-Marie Slaughter and Harold Koh. Feith and Cropsey summarize by claiming that Obama’s goals amount to a fundamental break with seven decades of American foreign policy, Republican and Democrat, realist and idealist. That divide, after all, is what the many presidential apologies for our past policies are meant to signal. In sum, say Feith and Cropsey, Obama “cares more about restraining America than about accomplishing any particular result in Libya. . . . The critics who accuse Obama of being adrift in foreign policy are mistaken. He has clear ideas of where he wants to go. The problem for him is that, if his strategy is set forth plainly, most Americans will not want to follow him.”

David Rieff’s “Saints Go Marching In,” from the summer issue of The National Interest, is a thoughtful variation on Feith-Cropsey. Rieff has less to say about Obama himself than about the long-term goals of those in the Obama administration, and especially the international community, who have pushed the Libyan war. According to Rieff, the real purpose of the “Responsibility to Protect” (R2P) doctrine the Libyan war is designed to entrench in international law is nothing less than the wildly utopian goal of putting an end to war itself. Rather than being openly avowed, that goal is “presented under the flag of convenience of abolishing or preventing war crimes.” On top of this, the ultimate hope of R2P supporters is that the West can be convinced to pay for “a Marshall Plan for half of the Global South.”

In the early years of the Obama administration, the Left dismissed claims of Obama’s radical intentions, frequently offering up his hawkish policies in Iraq and Afghanistan as Exhibit A. Rightly understood, the Libyan intervention explodes these denials, not only confirming Obama’s deeply unconventional intentions with regard to American national interests, but also linking his internationalist vision to his passion for wealth redistribution and equality-of-result at home. And as both Rieff and Feith-Cropsey note, the real long-term goals of the Libyan intervention have been largely hidden from the public by the war’s most influential advocates.

Since the creators of Obama’s post-American foreign policy — like Power, Slaughter, and Koh — work (or have worked) at the administration’s highest levels, Libya is a “teachable moment” for the operations of Obama’s reticent radicalism. The public is confused by the Libyan action, and instinctively feels that the president’s refusal to go to Congress to seek approval for this war was self-protective and wrong. Another teachable moment.

For myself, although I think the Libyan intervention was a serious mistake, I would rather see a quick end to Qaddafi’s regime than a pull-out. Yet the Feith-Cropsey piece appears in a conservative venue that has supported the Libyan intervention from the start. David Rieff is a liberal who has repudiated his former humanitarian interventionism out of concern for the dangerous utopianism, and in his view, neo-colonialism, of R2P-style interventions. So while internal divisions over Libya on both the right and the left have prevented any significant examination of Obama’s true policy goals up to now, the conditions for such scrutiny may now exist.

The public is ready for an explanation of the otherwise unexplainable Libyan adventure, the writings of Obama’s top advisers make his administration’s intent undeniable, and the resemblance of Obama’s leftist foreign and domestic policy goals is now unmistakable. The truth about Libya points the way to the truth about Obama.

PERMALINK
 



Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #823 on: July 21, 2011, 12:22:08 PM »
Published on The New Republic (http://www.tnr.com)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We Have No Idea What We Are Doing in Libya
David Rieff
July 21, 2011 | 12:00 am



.Four months after American submarines began launching missiles and U.S. pilots began flying sorties, does anyone, perhaps even including President Obama, really know what we are trying to do in Libya? It is true that, compared to Afghanistan, a major war whose outcome is generally agreed to hang in the balance, and to Iraq, from which we have not yet completely withdrawn, and even to Somalia and Yemen, where the tempo of our counterinsurgency operations have been steadily increasing, both directly and by proxy, Libya may seem minor. But, if our military operations in that country are hardly the greatest burden our armed forces confront, they are also hardly trivial. Less than a month before he left office, outgoing Secretary of Defense Robert Gates estimated the U.S. would spend $750 million on the Libyan operation, while a Department of Defense document published in May revealed the American contribution to Operation Unified Protector involved 75 aircraft (including drones), flying 70 percent of the reconnaissance missions, 75 of refueling missions, and more than one-quarter of all air sorties. And yet, from March 28, when President Obama announced Operation United Protector’s predecessor, Operation Odyssey Dawn, until now, the fog of incoherent justification for the war has been at least as thick of the proverbial fog of war itself.

Have we gone to war? Well, no, not exactly. We were, Obama said in that first speech, “[committing] resources to stop the killings” of innocent Libyan civilians by Colonel Qaddafi’s forces. If the United States has initiated combat operations, this really amounted not to war-fighting, but to taking “all necessary measures to protect the Libyan people” and to “save lives.” And did our actions mean that the goal of the mission was regime change, Iraq- or Afghanistan-style? Not at all, the president insisted. Taking a predictable swipe at the Bush administration, he said dismissively that we had already gone “down that road in Iraq.” It was an apt metaphor, if, perhaps, unconsciously so, since regime change would have required just that: sending troops down the road, on the ground in Libya. And that, the president argued, would be far more dangerous than what he was ordering the military to do.

This may have sounded like the prudent thing, but what it was—what it is, for nothing has changed at all in this regard over the course of the past four months, even though we have officially recognized the Libyan rebels—is the incoherent, internally self-contradictory thing. We believe Qaddafi must go, and we will not let him make significant advances on the ground, but we refuse to take responsibility for his overthrow. So, to use a military term of art, we have an end state—Qaddafi’s ouster—but we are not willing to do what is needed to attain that goal expeditiously, which, of course, is why there is at least, for the moment, still a stalemate on the ground in Libya.

The stark fact is that the outcome Obama wants and the means he is willing to use to secure it are hopelessly mismatched. And this is leaving aside the fact that this “a donkey is a horse designed by a committee” intervention flies in the face of the sense of the War Powers Act and represents one more ornament in the crown of the imperial executive. Oh, for the days of a good old-fashioned congressional declaration of war!

 

I AM NOT joking. The U.S. involvement in Libya is the logical outcome of policies, pursued under both Republican and Democratic administrations (Somalia under President George H. W. Bush, Bosnia and Kosovo under President Bill Clinton), in which war was never fully acknowledged to be war, with all the gravity that such an acknowledgment would have implied. Instead, we were told that what was taking place was a so-called humanitarian intervention, a kind of armed emergency relief operation (as in Somalia in 1991), or armed human rights intervention (in the Balkans and, now, in Libya). The latest version of this delusion is the so-called Responsibility to Protect doctrine, or R2P, as it is almost universally known, that was adopted by the United Nations World Summit in 2005 and ratified by the General Assembly in 2008 with the support of George W. Bush’s administration. R2P states that sovereignty is not absolute and, when a nation is committing crimes against its own population, where feasible and in those cases where all other (non-military) means are believed to have failed, outside powers not only may, but actually have a duty, to intervene. R2P is cited explicitly in U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973—the same resolution Obama cited in his speech announcing that he had ordered U.S. military action in Libya.

Those who took a decent English 101 class in college may remember being instructed that a failure of language usually reflects a failure of thought. The truth is that doctrines like humanitarian intervention and R2P are ways of waging war without taking responsibility (or accepting accountability, both moral and democratic) for doing so. That is why they are so pernicious, and why, even in cases where an intervention may be warranted, far from being an improvement on the traditional way that nations and coalitions of states have come to the decision to go to war and how they have waged war, they are actually a very large step in the wrong direction. They allow us to pretend we are not going to war, but, instead, are just trying to protect the civilian population from harm. War, however, is not police work, not armed humanitarianism, not human rights activism with an air force, and it should not be allowed to become anything of the kind. The Libyan precedent is so disturbing precisely because, unlike Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, or (again) Somalia, whether one supports U.S. actions in these places or instead favors withdrawal, it reflects such tendencies.

Of course, there are good reasons why humanitarian, democracy-building, and human rights justifications are so attractive to policymakers. In the past, nations went to war for four reasons: out of interest (including wars of conquest); because they were bound by alliances (World War I, to use an obvious example); in self-defense; and out of a belief that it was just to uphold some cause. War is still with us, but, with the exception of self-defense in the broad sense, all these justifications have been increasingly set aside. When the time comes for war, there is only the possibility of state violence couched in the language of peacemaking and peacekeeping. It is a world that George Orwell would have had no trouble recognizing, and the fact that those who champion R2P and other forms of humanitarian intervention have good intentions and are, to use an old-fashioned term, good people, does not make their demarche any less Orwellian.

There is an alternative. It is called just war, and it has existed since the days of St. Thomas Aquinas. If he had thought it right to go to war in Libya, Obama could easily have said something like this:

The insurrection in Libya is a just and decent cause in which the Libyan people have risen up to overthrow the Qaddafi dictatorship. We can’t overthrow every dictatorship, either because they are too powerful, as is the case with China, or because American interests run too deep, as is the case with Saudi Arabia. But, when it is feasible to assist a popular uprising against a tyrant, America should do so. And that is what I have now ordered our armed forces to do in Libya.

Americans might have disagreed with such an assessment. Principled interventionists and principled anti-interventionists would have known where they stood. But neither side, nor, indeed, the great American middle, could have faulted the president for trying to have it both ways, as he has tried to do with the current policy of Regime Change Lite.

Just wars don’t have to be defensive. But they have to be wars, and the dismal folly of R2P and the Obama administration’s use of it in Libya, is that it involves war-fighting without either the seriousness (and the serious will to win) or the moral gravitas that war requires. It turns war into police work, not to say social work (“we’re just protecting innocent civilians,” and all that). Under its aegis (or that of so-called humanitarian intervention), it can’t be fought seriously and to the end.

For anyone but a pacifist, fighting is always an option of last resort. So is standing down. What should not be an option is the unholy compromise between the two that is embodied in R2P and is now having its test run in Libya.

David Rieff is the author of eight books including A Bed for the Night: Humanitarianism in Crisis.
.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source URL: http://www.tnr.com/article/against-the-current/92259/libya-obama-qaddafi-un-r2p-intervention

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39653
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #824 on: July 21, 2011, 12:40:18 PM »
Vice PM: Libya Is New Source For Smuggled Arms To Gaza


 JERUSALEM - Libya has become a new source of smuggled weaponry for Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, Vice Prime Minister Moshe Ya'alon said on Thursday.

"Weapons are available in Libya as a result of the unstable situation there, and Hamas has exploited it to buy weapons from Libyan smugglers," the former IDF chief of staff told foreign journalists in a briefing, without elaborating on the kind of munitions involved.

With eastern Libya largely held by rebels who rose up against Muammar Gaddafi in February, arms were being brought across the border, through neighboring Egypt, to the Hamas-ruled territory, Yaalon added.

MORE...

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=230422



________________________ _______________

Wow! 
 
Now we know how obama is getting Bibi back!