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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Wrestling Board => Topic started by: GraniteCityDon on March 06, 2011, 02:54:57 AM
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Who would you class, in no particular order, as the strongest factions ever? Mine would have to include:
4 Horsemen
Nation
Dangerous Alliance
Corporate Ministry (Although The Union was woeful!)
DX & Radicalz (for a short period of time)
NWO before everyone became a part of it
Each of these factions had a major impact on their respective era's and were included in most of the major storylines, regardless of how strong / weak the era actually was. It was a shame that Austin - as good as he was - single handidly became responsible for the Ministry's downfall (kayfabe) as they were owning & sacrificing everyone.
I only remember from the late 80's onwards so i dont really recall the territories but were there any such factions back then? I wouldnt include and of the "Families" as they were more of a stable.
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I was a total mark for the Radicalz because I was a fan of every one of its members when they were all still working as underneath guys.
As the WCW product began to stagnate in the late 90's, I looked forward to the formation of Revolution (the Radicalz + Shane Douglas) because it seemed like the company was finally going to finish developing and utilize this untapped talent.
When Benoit won the big belt, I thought for sure that the WCW bookers had finally found the pulse again.
Then...flatline.
When WCW allowed those guys to leave and walk right through the WWF's doors, I knew the writing was on the wall.
The Fed was already ahead in the ratings, and WCW was only sinking more.
I think that even though Vince didn't keep the group together for long, their arrival and initial use served as a landmark in the "Monday Night Wars."
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Agreed, i remember them being referred to as "from down south" lol Great impact by all accounts, the systematic demolition of the Outlaws showcased what they were all about and made everyone take notice that these guys werent here just to be part of the roster.
WCW made so many errors with so many individuals its hard to believe they lasted as long as they did. There was no sense of accountability for the powers that be because they made the same mistakes over and over again with almost no backlash i can think of.
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Agreed, i remember them being referred to as "from down south" lol Great impact by all accounts, the systematic demolition of the Outlaws showcased what they were all about and made everyone take notice that these guys werent here just to be part of the roster.
WCW made so many errors with so many individuals its hard to believe they lasted as long as they did. There was no sense of accountability for the powers that be because they made the same mistakes over and over again with almost no backlash i can think of.
Yeah.
And, I've said this many times before: you can blame bad booking, but you also need to blame whoever okay'ed those ideas.
It started with Turner.
He wasn't involved enough with his own product.
He had the authority over everything in WCW and didn't do a damn thing.
You never appoint a bunch of other people to run your business and then just forget about it.
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I was looking at this picture the other day when a depressing thought hit me: three of these five guys are no longer with us.
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/Class_B/Wrestling/5-2.jpg)
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NWO due to numbers and personas but the Horsemen started it all. I think DX was a complete waste of time. DX was all Shawn Michaels. Back then HHH wasn't "The Game" and he wasn't nearly as big as he was after mid 1999 when he sauced up hard nor was he the talker he is now. He had to leave DX and it was only then that he started to go over. No one cared about the Rodd Dog and Billy Gunn.
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NWO due to numbers and personas but the Horsemen started it all. I think DX was a complete waste of time. DX was all Shawn Michaels. Back then HHH wasn't "The Game" and he wasn't nearly as big as he was after mid 1999 when he sauced up hard nor was he the talker he is now. He had to leave DX and it was only then that he started to go over. No one cared about the Rodd Dog and Billy Gunn.
Everyone else came after the Horsemen - they were #1 on every level.
IMO, D-X was amusing and appropriate for ushering in the Attitude Era because of their deliberate/often "forced" shock value.
I agree with you that Helmsley's best work was yet to come.
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Of course I vote Horsemen of the mid-80's as number one. Original, then Luger and then Windham were all GREAT..... I don't even consider any of the other crap versions on the level to be discussed.
nWo at it's beginning was incredible. Should have stayed, Hall, Nash Hogan and maybe X-pac (to laugh at). So I put that "early" incarnation second.
After that i think of them as just a bunch of different stables....Sullivan had some great ones in Florida as well as the Varsity Club, Ellering in GCW and of course DX all come to mind.
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Of course I vote Horsemen of the mid-80's as number one. Original, then Luger and then Windham were all GREAT..... I don't even consider any of the other crap versions on the level to be discussed.
You didn't like Mongo?
;D
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I was looking at this picture the other day when a depressing thought hit me: three of these five guys are no longer with us.
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/Class_B/Wrestling/5-2.jpg)
Crap, I just noticed this pic.....very sad to see that three as you mentioned Mont, are gone.... :-\
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You didn't like Mongo?
;D
That was awful....all he did was run around yelling "YEAH BABY !!!" just awful....worse than Paul Roma.....and that is saying a lot.....
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Have to agree the Horseman will always come first.
I loved early NWO (before Wolfpac, LWO, etc); the heat on those guys was incredible, especially Hogan. I had no idea he would be so good at being bad.
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Crap, I just noticed this pic.....very sad to see that three as you mentioned Mont, are gone.... :-\
Hennig & Davey were two of my biggest motivations back in my "training days."
I was incredibly bummed out when they passed.
That was awful....all he did was run around yelling "YEAH BABY !!!" just awful....worse than Paul Roma.....and that is saying a lot.....
When Bischoff's your biggest mark...
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Of course I vote Horsemen of the mid-80's as number one. Original, then Luger and then Windham were all GREAT..... I don't even consider any of the other crap versions on the level to be discussed.
nWo at it's beginning was incredible. Should have stayed, Hall, Nash Hogan and maybe X-pac (to laugh at). So I put that "early" incarnation second.
After that i think of them as just a bunch of different stables....Sullivan had some great ones in Florida as well as the Varsity Club, Ellering in GCW and of course DX all come to mind.
Not al lot of love for DX? I am surprised. Michaels is better than their best, and HHH would be a pretty strong number two. Other than sheer numbers, I would put their best on par with, if not better than the nWo.
Man, I loved the Varsity Club. They didn't get a lot of play, and possibly rightly so, but what a cool group.
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Not al lot of love for DX? I am surprised. Michaels is better than their best, and HHH would be a pretty strong number two. Other than sheer numbers, I would put their best on par with, if not better than the nWo.
Man, I loved the Varsity Club. They didn't get a lot of play, and possibly rightly so, but what a cool group.
when i think of DX as a faction, its more after HBK was out.....when New Age Outlaws, HHH, etc... were DX. when it was just Michaels, HHH and Chyna, I thought of them more as a loose "team" with a valet.
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The original horsemen were awesome and only with Barry Windham as a replacement as an exception to the rule. IMO every other horseman was a wannabe. Even when they created the new horsemen with Malenko, Benoit, Pillman, it just wasn't the same.
Mongo was a complete waste of space.
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The original horsemen were awesome and only with Barry Windham as a replacement as an exception to the rule. IMO every other horseman was a wannabe. Even when they created the new horsemen with Malenko, Benoit, Pillman, it just wasn't the same.
Mongo was a complete waste of space.
totally agree. I didn't mind Luger, as it was a great storyline with booting Ole and then the run after the Horsemen that Luger had. It really gave him a leap-frog into ME status. I think w/windham it was the best version of the Horsemen. One thing I always loved was the connection Flair had with Windham from the Flair/Blackjack Mulligan tt's and fueds in the old mid-atlantic. Just made sense.
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totally agree. I didn't mind Luger, as it was a great storyline with booting Ole and then the run after the Horsemen that Luger had. It really gave him a leap-frog into ME status. I think w/windham it was the best version of the Horsemen. One thing I always loved was the connection Flair had with Windham from the Flair/Blackjack Mulligan tt's and fueds in the old mid-atlantic. Just made sense.
Luger had the look. Thats about it. He was so green and was a way better face (which they needed at that time) but as Flair stated in the horsemen dvd, the company didn't let Luger develop his skills and that is not Luger's fault.
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Luger had the look. Thats about it. He was so green and was a way better face (which they needed at that time) but as Flair stated in the horsemen dvd, the company didn't let Luger develop his skills and that is not Luger's fault.
I was visiting my brother who lived in Florida at the time and got to see Luger vs Wahoo live before Luger came to JCP. He was obviously green, but you could tell he had the "it" factor. It really is a shame they didn't let him develop in-ring. The Luger/Windham on-again/off again thing was very good for both of them.
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I was visiting my brother who lived in Florida at the time and got to see Luger vs Wahoo live before Luger came to JCP. He was obviously green, but you could tell he had the "it" factor. It really is a shame they didn't let him develop in-ring. The Luger/Windham on-again/off again thing was very good for both of them.
I saw Luger working out at my gym back in 1994. He was doing incline barbell presses for chest. He warmed up with 225 for 15 reps and did 4 sets of a good clean 8 reps. Unbelievable and he was nice and polite.
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I saw Luger working out at my gym back in 1994. He was doing incline barbell presses for chest. He warmed up with 225 for 15 reps and did 4 sets of a good clean 8 reps. Unbelievable and he was nice and polite.
Ole Big worked out at Lugers gym in Atlanta.....maybe he could chime in with some stuff.
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Ole Big worked out at Lugers gym in Atlanta.....maybe he could chime in with some stuff.
That would be great to hear....what about it Big Ole?
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That would be great to hear....what about it Big Ole?
He probably hasn't woke up yet....haha....I'll try to shoot him an email, or call, and let him know about this thread.
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i would say,dangerous alliance or original n.w.o.
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^^LOL!!
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^^LOL!!
Who ever brought the "Spirit Squad" in wrestling should be shot and pissed on.
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I used to train at nearly every gym in Atlanta over the years I lived there. A few good WCW stars there and mostly the Power Plant guys trained there at the Main Event in Marietta.
Luger, Johnny the Bull, Kidman, Johnny Swinger, Raven, (who was that dude that lasted about 4 weeks in WCW before getting fired, named Maxx Pain or something?? Did the jumping piledriver as a finisher? Well... he was there), DDP, Kimberly, a few others. Scott Steiner trained there, although he and Rick mostly trained at Coffee's Gym a bit further up the street. (Bad Ass place)
Sting, Goldberg, Zybsko (who was strong as hell and would regularly do multiple sets of 405 on the flat bench for 10-12 reps, but had a horrendously pock marked face), Booker T, Stevie Ray, and couple more worked out at the Main Event on Buford Highway before it was sold and became Ropeman's Fitness.
Flair, Sullivan (who would come in and pick one exercise like standing military press or bench press or squat and then proceed to do at least 50 sets with the same weight on it over and over again for the entire time Flair was on the stairmaster, Anderson, Vicious, Animal, Johnny B Badd all trained at the Golds Gym on Buford, a few miles down from the other Main Event. Then it because Fitness World, Planet Fitness, and a dozen other names over the years.
Glacier, Rage, Kaos, Kanyon, Sick Boy, Jindrak, Benoit, Malenko, and Jericho all trained at the Power House gym in Alpharetta. Which had some of the coolest weight machines you could imagine.
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I used to train at nearly every gym in Atlanta over the years I lived there. A few good WCW stars there and mostly the Power Plant guys trained there at the Main Event in Marietta.
Luger, Johnny the Bull, Kidman, Johnny Swinger, Raven, (who was that dude that lasted about 4 weeks in WCW before getting fired, named Maxx Pain or something?? Did the jumping piledriver as a finisher? Well... he was there), DDP, Kimberly, a few others. Scott Steiner trained there, although he and Rick mostly trained at Coffee's Gym a bit further up the street. (Bad Ass place)
Sting, Goldberg, Zybsko (who was strong as hell and would regularly do multiple sets of 405 on the flat bench for 10-12 reps, but had a horrendously pock marked face), Booker T, Stevie Ray, and couple more worked out at the Main Event on Buford Highway before it was sold and became Ropeman's Fitness.
Flair, Sullivan (who would come in and pick one exercise like standing military press or bench press or squat and then proceed to do at least 50 sets with the same weight on it over and over again for the entire time Flair was on the stairmaster, Anderson, Vicious, Animal, Johnny B Badd all trained at the Golds Gym on Buford, a few miles down from the other Main Event. Then it because Fitness World, Planet Fitness, and a dozen other names over the years.
Glacier, Rage, Kaos, Kanyon, Sick Boy, Jindrak, Benoit, Malenko, and Jericho all trained at the Power House gym in Alpharetta. Which had some of the coolest weight machines you could imagine.
Good stuff. I would have loved to watch the bigger guys like Goldburg and Scotty Steiner train.
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Sting, Goldberg, Zybsko (who was strong as hell and would regularly do multiple sets of 405 on the flat bench for 10-12 reps, but had a horrendously pock marked face), Booker T, Stevie Ray, and couple more worked out at the Main Event on Buford Highway before it was sold and became Ropeman's Fitness.
Larry learned to lift from Bruno in Pittsburgh.
Bruno was always bigger & stronger, but Larry was no slouch in either department, and his physique/shape actually looked quite similar to Sammartino's.
Consider, also, that you weren't watching Larry in his prime.
Strong dude.
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Larry learned to lift from Bruno in Pittsburgh.
Bruno was always bigger & stronger, but Larry was no slouch in either department, and his physique/shape actually looked quite similar to Sammartino's.
Consider, also, that you weren't watching Larry in his prime.
Strong dude.
This was back when he was doing the announcing gig. So I was really surprised. All he ever did was benchpress. And really really surprised by the condition of his face. God it was crater bombed all over.
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This was back when he was doing the announcing gig. So I was really surprised. All he ever did was benchpress. And really really surprised by the condition of his face. God it was crater bombed all over.
Maybe the cost of Larry's pre-production makeup is what did WCW in.
;D
I haven't watched the video in a long time, but in his shoot with Highspots.com, Zbyszko talked some about how he & Bruno would train in Bruno's basement.
It was ridiculously brutal!
It's nice to know, now, that it wasn't all bullshit, either.
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Anyone remember that guy, i think it was Ice Train (used to shout Hoo Hoo!). Guy was massive if memory serves me and he looked like he was as strong as a bull. Didnt see much of him but not a guy i would forget in a hurry.
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Larry learned to lift from Bruno in Pittsburgh.
Bruno was always bigger & stronger, but Larry was no slouch in either department, and his physique/shape actually looked quite similar to Sammartino's.
Consider, also, that you weren't watching Larry in his prime.
Strong dude.
I wonder if Bruno ever sauced it. In his prime he ws a bulldozer and strong as hell. He denies use but then again so do a lot of others.
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I wonder if Bruno ever sauced it. In his prime he ws a bulldozer and strong as hell. He denies use but then again so do a lot of others.
So does Lee Priest.
;D
Bruno reminds me somewhat of Freddy Ortiz, who was widely believed to have used, never admitted or denied it either way, and is very vocal in speaking out against it.
What is it they say about those who protest the loudest...?
Remember, too, that Bruno became very bitter about the industry and started criticizing steroid use in pro-wrestling around the time Vince & Zahorian were on trial in Harrisburg.
I've been around plenty of naturally big & strong guys in gyms, and I'm sure you have, too.
I've also been around plenty of guys who get almost all of "it" from the turkey baster they stick in their ass.
You know as well as I do what is common, what is likely, and what is possible.
I won't rule out either, because both seem possible, IMO.
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So does Lee Priest
;D
Bruno reminds me somewhat of Freddy Ortiz, who was widely believed to have used, never admitted or denied it either way, and is very vocal in speaking out against it.
What is it they say about those who protest the loudest...?
Remember, too, that Bruno became very bitter about the industry and started criticizing steroid use in pro-wrestling around the time Vince & Zahorian were on trial in Harrisburg.
I've been around plenty of naturally big & strong guys in gyms, and I'm sure you have, too.
I've also been around plenty of guys who get almost all of "it" from the turkey baster they stick in their ass.
You know as well as I do what is common, what is likely, and what is possible.
I won't rule out either, because both seem possible, IMO.
lol...aint that the truth :)
And in Bruno's case I think it stems from his son never making it to the bigtime.
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Anyone remember that guy, i think it was Ice Train (used to shout Hoo Hoo!). Guy was massive if memory serves me and he looked like he was as strong as a bull. Didnt see much of him but not a guy i would forget in a hurry.
Sure do. Guy was always visiting the pay window on WCW Saturday Night.....
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And in Bruno's case I think it stems from his son never making it to the bigtime.
I think that is 100% reasonable speculation.
If Bruno's kid turned out to be someone like Rock, Austin, Cena, HHH, etc., I suspect we'd barely hear a peep from the Living Legend.
I also think part of it is that, while Bruno enjoyed fantastic money and fame in his day, it was nothing like what guys would make at wrestling's various peaks years later.
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I think that is 100% reasonable speculation.
If Bruno's kid turned out to be someone like Rock, Austin, Cena, HHH, etc., I suspect we'd barely hear a peep from the Living Legend.
I also think part of it is that, while Bruno enjoyed fantastic money and fame in his day, it was nothing like what guys would make at wrestling's various peaks years later.
I think both of those reasons are true. I also think that Bruno genuinely hated the direction VKM took the WWF and what it has become.
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I think both of those reasons are true. I also think that Bruno genuinely hated the direction VKM took the WWF and what it has become.
I'm willing to bet that Bruno cannot watch more than 2 min. of any current wrestling show without at least once thinking to himself: "ya' know...back in my day..."
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I'm willing to bet that Bruno cannot watch more than 2 min. of any current wrestling show without at least once thinking to himself: "ya' know...back in my day..."
It is what it is. Bruno is an old-schooled fart that didn't evolve with the times in the same category of Verne Gagne and a few others with the same mentality. The only thing IMO that savesBruno is the fact that he was a phenomenal wrestler who drew big for Vince Sr. back in the day.
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It is what it is. Bruno is an old-schooled fart that didn't evolve with the times in the same category of Verne Gagne and a few others with the same mentality. The only thing IMO that savesBruno is the fact that he was a phenomenal wrestler who drew big for Vince Sr. back in the day.
That's the other thing that kills me:
Bruno made damn good money in his day; much better than he would have doing about anything else!
It's all relative, and too many guys lose perspective of that.
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That's the other thing that kills me:
Bruno made damn good money in his day; much better than he would have doing about anything else!
It's all relative, and too many guys lose perspective of that.
They all bit the hand that fed them. In Bruno's case, he needs to get over the fact the his son was never really any good. Thus his son getting the boot in late 1985 from the WWF.