Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle

[joswift]

People gorging on 6k cals a day are not gaining any extra muscle than someone eating 3k
They are just getting fatter.

[falco]

True.

[dj181]

mike mentzer said this years and years ago

stankins keeps telling me to eat more, which is total and complete horseshit, coz if you eat beyond need you just get fucking fatter, extra cals do not hasten the muscle gaining process

so yep, mentzer is/was right

but AJ actually said this before him

[SweetDaddySiki]

What can you do for your hormones to build muscle (other than take PED's) or is there anything you can do?

[joswift]

What can you do for your hormones to build muscle (other than take PED's) or is there anything you can do?

Squats supersetted with dumbell pullovers.....

Just kidding, no, there is nothing you can do.

[oldtimer1]

Franco, Arnold and Zane all gained weight going into a contest. Yes I know they are steroid guys. The bulk and then diet down system  of the early 60's is nuts.  Gain lean muscle.

[MajorDomo]

Squats supersetted with dumbell pullovers.....

Just kidding, no, there is nothing you can do.

^This.  A natural will gain on average 5-10 pounds a year for the first 3-4 years, then it plateaus. Some will gain more, some will gain less, but in the end it stops for everyone who isn't taking exogenous hormones. Pre 1940's bodybuilders are what can be attained naturally. Past that era chemical warfare began.

[Thin Lizzy]

^This.  A natural will gain on average 5-10 pounds a year for the first 3-4 years, then it plateaus. Some will gain more, some will gain less, but in the end it stops for everyone who isn't taking exogenous hormones. Pre 1940's bodybuilders are what can be attained naturally. Past that era chemical warfare began.

Most of us start in our teens so a lot of those gains are just from growing into your adult body . No way a natty who starts lifting in his 30s gains 10 pounds of muscle a year for three years.

[MajorDomo]

Most of us start in our teens so a lot of those gains are just from growing into your adult body . No way a natty who starts lifting in his 30s gains 10 pounds of muscle a year for three years.

I agree - but instead of writing a Wikipedia page I just put some general thoughts down, lol

[joswift]

Muscles dont grow in the sense they get new tissue
All that happens is the muscles you have expand and get bigger (Hypertrophy)
You dont get new tissue (hyperplasia)

All the "you break down tissue and it grows back bigger" is a myth

Genetics dictates how big muscles get

[MajorDomo]

I was a very lean 150 pounds when I started lifting in my early 20's, at a height of 5'9". About 5 years later I weighed 185 give or take and was about the same leanness. That's kind where it all tapered off and any weight I put on since then was fat.

The routine I settled on after trying all the whacky stuff was doing 3 sets of 8-10 reps and adding weight every so often, doing that twice a week for a particular exercise. Every so often I'd take a week off because i was tired, then I'd restart.

All the research I have done on natural weight lifters shows I was in the midrange for muscle growth. I still think adding 30+ pounds of muscle from weight training was pretty amazing, and I got a lot stronger to boot. But these chemical monsters we see on bodybuilding pages are so far outside the realm of natural that it is just a chemical freak show- and i watch them for the freak show thrill, haha.

[dj181]

I was a very lean 150 pounds when I started lifting in my early 20's, at a height of 5'9". About 5 years later I weighed 185 give or take and was about the same leanness. That's kind where it all tapered off and any weight I put on since then was fat.

The routine I settled on after trying all the whacky stuff was doing 3 sets of 8-10 reps and adding weight every so often, doing that twice a week for a particular exercise. Every so often I'd take a week off because i was tired, then I'd restart.

All the research I have done on natural weight lifters shows I was in the midrange for muscle growth. I still think adding 30+ pounds of muscle from weight training was pretty amazing, and I got a lot stronger to boot. But these chemical monsters we see on bodybuilding pages are so far outside the realm of natural that it is just a chemical freak show- and i watch them for the freak show thrill, haha.

they just build bigger verisons of thier same look

ie. as the arms, legs, back etc grow so does the waist

looks shit

keep the waist at 30 inches while adding 20-40 pounds then we can talk

[joswift]

I was a very lean 150 pounds when I started lifting in my early 20's, at a height of 5'9". About 5 years later I weighed 185 give or take and was about the same leanness. That's kind where it all tapered off and any weight I put on since then was fat.

The routine I settled on after trying all the whacky stuff was doing 3 sets of 8-10 reps and adding weight every so often, doing that twice a week for a particular exercise. Every so often I'd take a week off because i was tired, then I'd restart.

All the research I have done on natural weight lifters shows I was in the midrange for muscle growth. I still think adding 30+ pounds of muscle from weight training was pretty amazing, and I got a lot stronger to boot. But these chemical monsters we see on bodybuilding pages are so far outside the realm of natural that it is just a chemical freak show- and i watch them for the freak show thrill, haha.

I started at a low BF 155lbs and am now a lean 200lb onstage same BF % after 40 years training

If I was natural and the same BF % with training I would probably weigh 185
If I stopped training and maintaned the same BF% I would likely be 155 again.

We all end up back where we started eventually

Even pros end up back where they started if the stop training and taking hormones.

Imagine Cormier at 5% BF now untrained.

[SweetDaddySiki]

I started at a low BF 155lbs and am now a lean 200lb onstage same BF % after 40 years training

If I was natural and the same BF % with training I would probably weigh 185
If I stopped training and maintaned the same BF% I would likely be 155 again.

We all end up back where we started eventually

Even pros end up back where they started if the stop training and taking hormones.

Imagine Cormier at 5% BF now untrained.

Cormier would be too weak to beat women like he did Amho Hight...

[Rambone]

Cormier would be too weak to beat women like he did Amho Hight...

How’s she doing?

[bhank]

Why do people think they need the exact same number of calories everyday? Do animals in the wild eat the same calories everyday did our ancestors? Or did they eat a lot after a hunt then slowly eat less for a few days then finally go hungry a day or two until the next kill?

[Skeletor]

they just build bigger verisons of thier same look

ie. as the arms, legs, back etc grow so does the waist

looks shit

keep the waist at 30 inches while adding 20-40 pounds then we can talk

Pretty easy when you start at 120 lbs.

[BB]

How’s she doing?

Showing ripped to the bone conditioning.

[Van_Bilderass]

Regarding protein and calories, even many PDR entries for anabolics back in the day said you need to eat "more" protein and calories for the drugs to work. It's just a fact. And it's not as Mike Mentzer said that you, as he had calculated, only need
a bite of an apple over the basal metabolic rate to gain optimally. You also can't calculate the amount of extra protein in the amount of tissue you can build with/without anabolics and only eat that extra amount, it's not an efficient process like that.

If we're talking anabolics users, as we are here I assume, just look at the food intakes vs the average size of bodybuilders. Calories and protein intakes will be pretty similar among similar sized guys. Now that doesn't mean that a 150lbs kid starting out needs 300 grams of protein from the outset. Today bodybuilders are very good at calculating the needs of different sized individuals, don't you guys agree? Gone are the days when bodybuilders grew fat - if they have a nutrition coach. Most everyone stays
very lean. But what you are going to find is that everyone eats "high" protein.

In the past many getbiggers argued that you don't need more than 50-80 grams a day. It's just not factual.

For a science based approach, I'd recommend Lyle McDonald.

Regarding what bhanks said, you're not going to do well as a growing bb if you frequently go hungry. Sure, the body is adaptable like that, it's also adaptable in that the body is "made" to go thirsty at times. But it's just not optimal. To grow the quickest you need to keep mtor stimulated constantly and you should attempt to stay hydrated as well.

[dj181]

Regarding protein and calories, even many PDR entries for anabolics back in the day said you need to eat "more" protein and calories for the drugs to work. It's just a fact. And it's not as Mike Mentzer said that you, as he had calculated, only need
a bite of an apple over the basal metabolic rate to gain optimally. You also can't calculate the amount of extra protein in the amount of tissue you can build with/without anabolics and only eat that extra amount, it's not an efficient process like that.

If we're talking anabolics users, as we are here I assume, just look at the food intakes vs the average size of bodybuilders. Calories and protein intakes will be pretty similar among similar sized guys. Now that doesn't mean that a 150lbs kid starting out needs 300 grams of protein from the outset. Today bodybuilders are very good at calculating the needs of different sized individuals, don't you guys agree? Gone are the days when bodybuilders grew fat - if they have a nutrition coach. Most everyone stays
very lean. But what you are going to find is that everyone eats "high" protein.

In the past many getbiggers argued that you don't need more than 50-80 grams a day. It's just not factual.

For a science based approach, I'd recommend Lyle McDonald.

Regarding what bhanks said, you're not going to do well as a growing bb if you frequently go hungry. Sure, the body is adaptable like that, it's also adaptable in that the body is "made" to go thirsty at times. But it's just not optimal. To grow the quickest you need to keep mtor stimulated constantly and you should attempt to stay hydrated as well.

you know justin harris right?

he says all that is needed for growing 20 pounds of muscle a year, which is an amazing gain for one year, you only need a few grams of extra protien per day, something like 10 grams

patrick tuor, the swiss coach, has his guys on low pro and they are round and full

in fact one of them who is 250+ on stage was only eating 120 grams per day

danny padilla was eating 80-100 same with platz for thier prep for the 81 olympia and they both looked the best they ever looked that year, they were both influnced by mentzer at that time

[Amerian Muscle]

also, people vastly over estimate for how long they can continue to be gaining muscle, and how much muscle they stand to gain over their entire lifetime. realistically, it you havent built the muscle within your first 5 years of training, it's over for you

[joswift]

Regarding protein and calories, even many PDR entries for anabolics back in the day said you need to eat "more" protein and calories for the drugs to work. It's just a fact. And it's not as Mike Mentzer said that you, as he had calculated, only need
a bite of an apple over the basal metabolic rate to gain optimally. You also can't calculate the amount of extra protein in the amount of tissue you can build with/without anabolics and only eat that extra amount, it's not an efficient process like that.

If we're talking anabolics users, as we are here I assume, just look at the food intakes vs the average size of bodybuilders. Calories and protein intakes will be pretty similar among similar sized guys. Now that doesn't mean that a 150lbs kid starting out needs 300 grams of protein from the outset. Today bodybuilders are very good at calculating the needs of different sized individuals, don't you guys agree? Gone are the days when bodybuilders grew fat - if they have a nutrition coach. Most everyone stays
very lean. But what you are going to find is that everyone eats "high" protein.

In the past many getbiggers argued that you don't need more than 50-80 grams a day. It's just not factual.

For a science based approach, I'd recommend Lyle McDonald.

Regarding what bhanks said, you're not going to do well as a growing bb if you frequently go hungry. Sure, the body is adaptable like that, it's also adaptable in that the body is "made" to go thirsty at times. But it's just not optimal. To grow the quickest you need to keep mtor stimulated constantly and you should attempt to stay hydrated as well.

anabolics were invented to work best in people in poor health, initially for hypogonadism and then onto people recovering from other ailments such as wasting diseases.

they were never designed for people in good health.
If thats true then they would still work on a very restricted diet

Another silly belief is the 6-8 meals a day bollocks
Fucks sake your body has less energy to work on the rest of the bodily functions if you are constantly digesting food.

[Van_Bilderass]

you know justin harris right?

he says all that is needed for growing 20 pounds of muscle a year, which is an amazing gain for one year, you only need a few grams of extra protien per day, something like 10 grams

patrick tuor, the swiss coach, has his guys on low pro and they are round and full

in fact one of them who is 250+ on stage was only eating 120 grams per day

danny padilla was eating 80-100 same with platz for thier prep for the 81 olympia and they both looked the best they ever looked that year, they were both influnced by mentzer at that time

I have a hard time believing that about Patrick Tuor, can't say you are wrong though. They "all" eat "high" protein.

Justin Harris believes in eating big overall. He "prescribes" MK677 for some guys who can't eat the required amount.

anabolics were invented to work best in people in poor health, initially for hypogonadism and then onto people recovering from other ailments such as wasting diseases.

they were never designed for people in good health.
If thats true then they would still work on a very restricted diet

Another silly belief is the 6-8 meals a day bollocks
Fucks sake your body has less energy to work on the rest of the bodily functions if you are constantly digesting food.

"They" have revised the amount of meals per day, most of the coaches, though most of them recommend at least 4 meals.

But regarding protein, how much would you recommend per kilo or pound on average. How much did you eat precontest this last time and how much off season. What about if you were younger and thought you could still put on maybe 20lbs of lbm and wanted to do it the quickest way? How about how many more calories over maintenance per day in
a "gaining phase" if starting out really lean? I know this is a lot of questions for you but I'm interested.

[dj181]

I have a hard time believing that about Patrick Tuor, can't say you are wrong though. They "all" eat "high" protein.

Justin Harris believes in eating big overall. He "prescribes" MK677 for some guys who can't eat the required amount.

"They" have revised the amount of meals per day, most of the coaches, though most of them recommend at least 4 meals.

But regarding protein, how much would you recommend per kilo or pound on average. How much did you eat precontest this last time and how much off season. What about if you were younger and thought you could still put on maybe 20lbs of lbm and wanted to do it the quickest way? How about how many more calories over maintenance per day in
a "gaining phase" if starting out really lean? I know this is a lot of questions for you but I'm interested.

brad says 3-4 meals per day is enough here in this vid

nubret ate only 1 or 2 meals a day supposedly

he also says 2-3 reps in reserve is just as good as going to failure, but i call bs on that

[joswift]

"They" have revised the amount of meals per day, most of the coaches, though most of them recommend at least 4 meals.

But regarding protein, how much would you recommend per kilo or pound on average. How much did you eat precontest this last time and how much off season. What about if you were younger and thought you could still put on maybe 20lbs of lbm and wanted to do it the quickest way? How about how many more calories over maintenance per day in
a "gaining phase" if starting out really lean? I know this is a lot of questions for you but I'm interested.

I dont really know how much I was eating , probably around 200gms or so beacuse I put carbs back in.
Eating a carnivore I was eating more protein.

Off season for me I eat pretty normally, I only eat like a bodybuilder pre-contest

I dont think anyone needs any more than 200 cals over maintenance a day.
Obvioulsy you would have to track all your energy expenditure to be that accurate so I would advise 500 cals a day but keep the fat gain in check and FFS dont be smiling when you gain ten pounds in a week