Author Topic: It just never ends...  (Read 12293 times)

Primemuscle

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #125 on: August 10, 2015, 12:02:52 PM »
Where do you shop where dog and cat foods are in different aisles? ???

Petco and PetSmart both separate dog and cat foods. In fact most pet stores do. Even Costco shelve their pet foods separately.

The Ugly

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #126 on: August 10, 2015, 12:05:30 PM »
Petco and PetSmart both separate dog and cat foods. In fact most pet stores do. Even Costco shelve their pet foods separately.

Any indication this upsets, offends, or otherwise makes uncomfortable trans-species pets?

Primemuscle

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #127 on: August 10, 2015, 12:08:18 PM »
I read an article in the Oregonian regarding companies hiring special teams and providing training for working with transgendered employees. In Oregon, it is against the law to discriminate against transgendered employees and customers. This will likely become the law throughout the country.

Primemuscle

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #128 on: August 10, 2015, 12:10:48 PM »
Any indication this upsets, offends, or otherwise makes uncomfortable trans-species pets?

When I take the dogs in these stores, they run to the cat food isles. I suspect they want to become cats. I told them that I'll have none of this crap!  ;D

The Ugly

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #129 on: August 10, 2015, 12:15:43 PM »
I read an article in the Oregonian regarding companies hiring special teams and providing training for working with transgendered employees. In Oregon, it is against the law to discriminate against transgendered employees and customers. This will likely become the law throughout the country.

So it's presently legal to discriminate everywhere else?

TuHolmes

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #130 on: August 10, 2015, 12:16:54 PM »
So it's presently legal to discriminate everywhere else?

I believe it is illegal to discriminate against transgendered people pretty much everywhere.


The Ugly

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #131 on: August 10, 2015, 12:22:49 PM »
I believe it is illegal to discriminate against transgendered people pretty much everywhere.


Of course, pretty much everyone's protected anymore.

... UNLESS the establishment has one of those little 'We reserve the right' signs, then all bets are off.

timfogarty

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #132 on: August 10, 2015, 12:44:19 PM »
I believe it is illegal to discriminate against transgendered people pretty much everywhere.

Nope.  Perfectly legal to fire or not hire someone because of sexual orientation or gender identity in more than half of the US.  Perfectly legal to deny housing or public accommodation too.

http://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/non_discrimination_laws

Primemuscle

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #133 on: August 10, 2015, 12:56:14 PM »
Of course, pretty much everyone's protected anymore.

... UNLESS the establishment has one of those little 'We reserve the right' signs, then all bets are off.

The sign would likely do you no good in Oregon. A couple of years ago, a group of transsexuals would meet once a week in a straight bar. This had been going on for years. Suddenly the owner decided he want them to meet there any longer. As they were leaving, the owner politely asked them to find another place for their meetings. They filed a discrimination claim. Brad Avakian, Oregon's longtime Labor and Industries Commissioner, took on the case. The bar owner was found guilty and fined.

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The Oregon Department of Justice has seized more than $16,000 from the owner of a shuttered North Portland bar out of $400,000 awarded in a discrimination case involving transgender patrons.
  http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2015/04/state_seizes_money_in_case_of_1.html

Primemuscle

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #134 on: August 10, 2015, 01:02:51 PM »
So it's presently legal to discriminate everywhere else?

I didn't say that it was. It is illegal in many other states. Some cities also have anti-discrimination laws as well.

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/transgender-people-and-law

chaos

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #135 on: August 10, 2015, 02:24:39 PM »
Nope.  Perfectly legal to fire or not hire someone because of sexual orientation or gender identity in more than half of the US.  Perfectly legal to deny housing or public accommodation too.

http://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/non_discrimination_laws
Perfectly legal to have the free will to choose who you work with and rent to? Awesome!
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

The Ugly

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #136 on: August 10, 2015, 02:39:54 PM »
I didn't say that it was.

In Oregon, it is against the law to discriminate against transgendered employees and customers. This will likely become the law throughout the country.

Sure you did.

If it will BECOME law throughout the country then it obviously ISN'T presently.

The Ugly

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #137 on: August 10, 2015, 02:45:18 PM »
The sign would likely do you no good in Oregon. A couple of years ago, a group of transsexuals would meet once a week in a straight bar. This had been going on for years. Suddenly the owner decided he want them to meet there any longer. As they were leaving, the owner politely asked them to find another place for their meetings. They filed a discrimination claim. Brad Avakian, Oregon's longtime Labor and Industries Commissioner, took on the case. The bar owner was found guilty and fined.
   http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2015/04/state_seizes_money_in_case_of_1.html

Incorrect. The sign works everywhere. Once it's properly displayed, you can just point at will and folks disappear. It's got supernatural powers or something.

Primemuscle

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #138 on: August 10, 2015, 03:12:48 PM »
Incorrect. The sign works everywhere. Once it's properly displayed, you can just point at will and folks disappear. It's got supernatural powers or something.

It pays to do a little research before posting your disagreement. I did the research and this is what I found. Seems that rather than having supernatural powers, the sign is all but worthless when it comes to public establishments, such as restaurants, bars and hotels. You can point to the sign all day long and if the person or persons are in a protected class they don't need to disappear. Furthermore, if you refuse service, sign or no sign, you are subject to lawsuits and fines. The fines are often hefty enough that they will bankrupt some businesses. I both recent cases in Oregon, the businesses closed and have since gone bankrupt. 

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You’ve probably seen these signs at restaurants: “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.” Or, “No shirt, no shoes, no service.” Which brings us back to the original restaurant signs. “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone” sounds vague and arbitrary. As we’ve seen, a business can’t just randomly refuse to serve someone.
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/the-right-to-refuse-service-can-a-business-refuse-service-to-someone-because-of-appearance

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Do Restaurants Have the Unrestricted Right to Refuse Service?

No. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly prohibits restaurants from refusing service to patrons on the basis of race, color, religion, or national origin. In addition, most courts don’t allow restaurants to refuse service to patrons based on extremely arbitrary conditions.  For example, a person likely can’t be refused service due to having a lazy eye.
- See more at: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/restaurants-right-to-refuse-service.html#sthash.Z8hIfRT1.dpuf

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....the first few decisions in cases involving same-sex couples have found that businesses do not have the right to refuse service to gay or lesbian customers any more than they do to those of certain races or nationalities.
http://www.business2community.com/trends-news/right-refuse-service-businesses-discrimination-0766551

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“I want to make it clear that those kinds of signs are a bit of a fiction. You do not have the right to refuse service to anybody…there are protected classes. There are state laws, federal laws and in Arizona’s case, local laws that provide protection against discrimination. So that business owner does not have an overriding right to trump those laws,” Rho said.
http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/news/when-is-refusing-service-legal-and-when-is-it-discrimination/article_305de452-a55b-11e3-8245-001a4bcf887a.html

chaos

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Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Primemuscle

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #140 on: August 10, 2015, 03:37:09 PM »
So much for freedom!

There are many who would agree with you. It seems you business in not your business when it comes to the law.

timfogarty

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #141 on: August 10, 2015, 04:17:19 PM »
There are many who would agree with you. It seems you business in not your business when it comes to the law.

Individuals can do what ever they want, but a business is legal agreement between owners and the state.  The owners get liability protection in exchange for following the rules set forth by the state.  An owner cannot lose his personal wealth if the business goes bankrupt.  An owner (that includes shareholders) cannot go to jail for crimes the business committed. In exchange, owners have to follow laws regulating businesses in that state.

Al Doggity

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #142 on: August 10, 2015, 05:07:50 PM »
There are many who would agree with you. It seems you business in not your business when it comes to the law.

No, it's still out business, it just is not above the law. consumers deserve protection and recourse, too.  You cant collude with other businesses to keep prices artificially high, you can't form illegal monopolies, you must follow safety regulations to protect the public.and.your workers, etc.

The Ugly

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #143 on: August 10, 2015, 07:21:26 PM »

It pays to do a little research before posting your disagreement. I did the research and this is what I found. Seems that rather than having supernatural powers, the sign is all but worthless when it comes to public establishments, such as restaurants, bars and hotels. You can point to the sign all day long and if the person or persons are in a protected class they don't need to disappear. Furthermore, if you refuse service, sign or no sign, you are subject to lawsuits and fines. The fines are often hefty enough that they will bankrupt some businesses. I both recent cases in Oregon, the businesses closed and have since gone bankrupt.  
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/the-right-to-refuse-service-can-a-business-refuse-service-to-someone-because-of-appearance
- See more at: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/restaurants-right-to-refuse-service.html#sthash.Z8hIfRT1.dpuf
 http://www.business2community.com/trends-news/right-refuse-service-businesses-discrimination-0766551
 http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/news/when-is-refusing-service-legal-and-when-is-it-discrimination/article_305de452-a55b-11e3-8245-001a4bcf887a.html


Jesus Christ you're obtuse. Seriously, how did you make it this far?

Las Vegas

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #144 on: August 10, 2015, 07:45:55 PM »
It is sickening to watch the news about this.

Carlton G. Long

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #145 on: August 11, 2015, 04:32:22 AM »
It is sickening to watch the news about this.

x2

But don't lose heart...AIDS works slowly, but it always works.

Primemuscle

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #146 on: August 24, 2015, 11:40:07 AM »
Jesus Christ you're obtuse. Seriously, how did you make it this far?

It's a matter of opinion. You seem like the one who is obtuse.

2Thick

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #147 on: August 24, 2015, 04:11:18 PM »
A private company should have the right to do whatever its management wants it to do to be at its best, as long as laws and regs aren't broken and shareholders on the whole are in agreement. But of course this is apparently just one more of a long line of many publicly traded companies cowering to pressure from the PC crowd and the administration in recent months.
A

TuHolmes

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Re: It just never ends...
« Reply #148 on: August 24, 2015, 04:19:16 PM »
Individuals can do what ever they want, but a business is legal agreement between owners and the state.  The owners get liability protection in exchange for following the rules set forth by the state.  An owner cannot lose his personal wealth if the business goes bankrupt.  An owner (that includes shareholders) cannot go to jail for crimes the business committed. In exchange, owners have to follow laws regulating businesses in that state.

I would say that legally, this is the best answer.