How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??

[BigCyp]

I think you would be a good doctor OMR.

[OneMoreRep]

I think you would be a good doctor OMR.

Thank you very much for your vote of confidence, my dear friend.

The feeling is mutual, as I feel that you are one of the most talented members on this site.

While I fancy myself as a part time proctologist, my true calling is in the realm of finance.  It's proven to be the last bastion of lucrative business.  Regardless of the state of the economy, we continue to make money.

"1"

[nicorulez]

Guys you can't be jealous of physicians...

I had to go through 13 years of school after high school, my entire 20s was spent studying my ass off, pulling all nighters, hitting the library every Friday and Saturday night while all my friends went out drinking!  And now, in my mid 30 s what do I have?

I do get paid well BUT, I work 70 hours a week, have no life, be on call 24 hours a week for 2 weeks straight, have 160k in student loans.  
On top of that docs get about 12 cents on every dollar charged...
You bill 100, get about 50 from insurance, then 25 of that goes to overhead, then 49.6% of that goes to the gov, leaving you 12 bucks.  
Then every year you find out taxes are going up, reimbursements going down , etc!!!

So yeah, when you hear that a certain doc is making some money realize the extreme time, money energy commitment put in. And yes most of my fellow docs are compassionate.  I often treat about 10 percent of my patients at no charge, do surgery for 90% off if someone has no money, on and on.  Shit, I go into the hospital all the time to see a consult for free!  Yes, free!

So, just because someone is making over 250 k, don't believe Obama that they are evil, they worked DAMN hard and made huge sacrifices to be in that position.

Good point. BTW, I am the only physician in my area who sees all comers...Medicare, Medicaid, Commercial insurance, and no pays. I work out payment with no-pays for 10-20 bucks a visit including consultation. I lose money, but it is the right thing to do. Don't give me that shit E-Kul that the majority of physicians are entitled assholes. The majority are good people. Of course, there are a few bad seeds, but lawyers are infinitely more assholish than docs. Compassion runs deep in most physicians.

[oldtimer1]

Based on industry forecasts, I'd say that by 2018-2020, the only lucrative medical specialists will be orthopedic surgeons (that can still bill for each nail they insert), plastic surgeons, dermatologists (if plastic surgeons haven't picked up the side services derms do) and anesthesiologists that can piggyback off the numerous surgeries the other guys do (assuming that all private insurance companies don't pony up and offer similar insurance to that of the public option - which is just medicare for everyone under 65 to begin with).

Everything else (GI, Cardiac, Nephro, Neuro, Rheuma, Pulmo etc) will probably have to start living at salaries around 200-300K (tops) AND that's if we don't dive head first into truly socialized medicine (universal healthcare - see Taiwan, Israel, Canada etc).

Then again, that's just my opinion as an old CPA, it could very well not turn out that bad.

My best advice to the kiddies in med school, go for those specialties mentioned above and if not yet in med school, consider becoming a nurse anesthetist (those suckers average around 150-250K, never get sued and can moonlight to various hospitals).  As an auditor for the largest academic hospitals in NY city, I always found the crna salaries to be insanely high (with overtime, most were bringing in 250K easy, with no weekends and only working 4-12's).

Another high paying gig, hospital CEO..
"1"

Gastroenterology doctors make big bucks too. If they belong to a group they own the same day operation facility where they do the endo's. Every patient gets a upper and lower endo. My group owns the lab too.  When I had stomach problems the tests alone were close to 20K. One doctor in the practice drove to work in a $200K car.

[Griffith]

That sir is true.

I can tell you what the vast majority of doctors "truly" make based off of their specialties due to my time in accounting years back.

That said, socialized medicine ::obamacare:: WILL be changing all of this very soon.

The days of doctors benefiting from professional autonomy, societal prestige and high salaries are steadily eroding as the government sees it fit to rob Peter in order to pay Paul.

It's the way our economy is heading and sadly seems inevitable at this point.

Like I said earlier in this thread, with the exception of certain surgical specialties, the vast majority (90%) of doctors will start making between 200-300K.

I don't agree with that.

"1"

America will probably eventually become a lot more like most European countries, almost inevitable really.

[oldtimer1]

Good point. BTW, I am the only physician in my area who sees all comers...Medicare, Medicaid, Commercial insurance, and no pays. I work out payment with no-pays for 10-20 bucks a visit including consultation. I lose money, but it is the right thing to do. Don't give me that shit E-Kul that the majority of physicians are entitled assholes. The majority are good people. Of course, there are a few bad seeds, but lawyers are infinitely more assholish than docs. Compassion runs deep in most physicians.

Doctors deserve every penny they make. I get tired of the life isn't fair talk of the left leaning socialist type people. People who make big money more times than not earned it through sacrifice and incredible hard work. I retired at 52 and I get tired of people saying what about me. Well you had the opportunity to take the same path but you didn't. Everyone thinks they deserve a corner office and a secretary but they are not willing to earn it. My daughter is about to get out of school and she has three offers already for over 125K. That's not being rich but it's a decent middle class salary. Some of her friends are really jealous because they got nothing out of college. My daughter took over 20 credits in chemistry and plenty of math/biology in her 7 years of school while her friends took communications while partying through school. My other daughter works really hard doing nights and holidays while making 100K. If you are a slacker in life you get what you deserve.

[OneMoreRep]

Gastroenterology doctors make big bucks too. If they belong to a group they own the same day operation facility where they do the endo's.

That's becoming a thing of the past.

Most folks prefer to go to local, academic institutions (big name hospitals) for their same-day procedures, as they feel safer in case shit hits the fan (patient de-sats or starts having arrhythmia's with no resolvement - thereby needing to be transferred to an ICU) mid-stream an EGD or colonoscopy.

It is not very common for GI groups to own their own centers.  That practice must have started in a hospital somewhere in order for those docs to have garnered enough of a patient load individually, to then branch out on their own and establish their own private practice with a center for same-day procedures.

The overhead costs alone of that are insane.

Every patient gets a upper and lower endo.

That's a huge scam.  A patient comes in for non-resolving acid reflux that has not responded to medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes and then the gastroenterologist recommends an EGD in order to assess for possible gastric polyps or even esophageal lining that is starting to resemble barrett's esophagus (precancerous esophageal tissue lining that resembles the lining of the stomach due to perpetual eroding by gastric acid) AND guess what the GI doctor then tells their patient right before they go down (sedated) for the procedure, "Listen, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and do a double-dip (both upper-egd & lower-colonoscopy) in order to get a full picture due to your age and unresolving symptoms.  The patient immediately agrees as it is their doctor recommending it.  Bada-bing, bada-boom you have a double-dip and insurance reimburses for both.  Scam!  That is one practice I don't agree with.  While auditing a few hospitals in NYC, we cracked down on non-essential tests and practices that sought out to drain the resources a patient had on hand.

When I had stomach problems the tests alone were close to 20K.

That was way overpriced for basic tests.  If it was simply bloodwork, you got duped somehow.  If it involved MRI's, CAT scan, capsule endoscopies, various colonoscopies & EGD's, then maybe it would resonate as a fair amount, but 20K for basic tests sounds preposterous.

Lovingly yours,
"1"

[oldtimer1]

That's becoming a thing of the past.

Most folks prefer to go to local, academic institutions (big name hospitals) for their same-day procedures, as they feel safer in case shit hits the fan (patient de-sats or starts having arrhythmia's with no resolvement - thereby needing to be transferred to an ICU) mid-stream an EGD or colonoscopy.

It is not very common for GI groups to own their own centers.  That practice must have started in a hospital somewhere in order for those docs to have garnered enough of a patient load individually, to then branch out on their own and establish their own private practice with a center for same-day procedures.

The overhead costs alone of that are insane.



That's a huge scam.  A patient comes in for non-resolving acid reflux that has not responded to medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes and then the gastroenterologist recommends an EGD in order to assess for possible gastric polyps or even esophageal lining that is starting to resemble barrett's esophagus (precancerous esophageal tissue lining that resembles the lining of the stomach due to perpetual eroding by gastric acid) AND guess what the GI doctor then tells their patient right before they go down (sedated) for the procedure, "Listen, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and do a double-dip (both upper-egd & lower-colonoscopy) in order to get a full picture due to your age and unresolving symptoms.  The patient immediately agrees as it is their doctor recommending it.  Bada-bing, bada-boom you have a double-dip and insurance reimburses for both.  Scam!  That is one practice I don't agree with.  While auditing a few hospitals in NYC, we cracked down on non-essential tests and practices that sought out to drain the resources a patient had on hand.

That was way overpriced for basic tests.  If it was simply bloodwork, you got duped somehow.  If it involved MRI's, CAT scan, capsule endoscopies, various colonoscopies & EGD's, then maybe it would resonate as a fair amount, but 20K for basic tests sounds preposterous.

Lovingly yours,
"1"

The costs for test were a upper and lower. Cat scan and an ultra sound. Biopsy and lab. These are NJ costs. I'm sure in some state like Kentucky it's cheaper. You're right the upper and lower endo is a scam to make money but when a person has stomach pain it's a standard practice. Group doctors owning their own same day operating center is very common in NJ. That's for stuff like out patient upper and lower endo. My wife had a breast lump removed in one of those out patient operating places too.

[OneMoreRep]

The costs for test were a upper and lower. Cat scan and an ultra sound. Biopsy and lab. These are NJ costs.

That makes sense.

You're right the upper and lower endo is a scam to make money but when a person had stomach pain it's a standard practice.

You betcha!  What's worse is that most gastroenterologists can do a colonoscopy in less than 15 minutes and bill the crap out of it by taking multiple biopsies of flat hyperplastic polyps (which turn out to be nothing and completely harmless).

Group doctors owning their own same day operating center is very common in NJ.

In some rural areas as well this is very common practice.

"1"

[nicorulez]

That's becoming a thing of the past.

Most folks prefer to go to local, academic institutions (big name hospitals) for their same-day procedures, as they feel safer in case shit hits the fan (patient de-sats or starts having arrhythmia's with no resolvement - thereby needing to be transferred to an ICU) mid-stream an EGD or colonoscopy.

It is not very common for GI groups to own their own centers.  That practice must have started in a hospital somewhere in order for those docs to have garnered enough of a patient load individually, to then branch out on their own and establish their own private practice with a center for same-day procedures.

The overhead costs alone of that are insane.

That's a huge scam.  A patient comes in for non-resolving acid reflux that has not responded to medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes and then the gastroenterologist recommends an EGD in order to assess for possible gastric polyps or even esophageal lining that is starting to resemble barrett's esophagus (precancerous esophageal tissue lining that resembles the lining of the stomach due to perpetual eroding by gastric acid) AND guess what the GI doctor then tells their patient right before they go down (sedated) for the procedure, "Listen, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and do a double-dip (both upper-egd & lower-colonoscopy) in order to get a full picture due to your age and unresolving symptoms.  The patient immediately agrees as it is their doctor recommending it.  Bada-bing, bada-boom you have a double-dip and insurance reimburses for both.  Scam!  That is one practice I don't agree with.  While auditing a few hospitals in NYC, we cracked down on non-essential tests and practices that sought out to drain the resources a patient had on hand.

That was way overpriced for basic tests.  If it was simply bloodwork, you got duped somehow.  If it involved MRI's, CAT scan, capsule endoscopies, various colonoscopies & EGD's, then maybe it would resonate as a fair amount, but 20K for basic tests sounds preposterous.

Lovingly yours,
"1"

OMR,

Tend to agree with all your points, however dyspepsia or acid reflux for greater than 3 months in a patient over the age of 55 warrants an EGD. Colonoscopy not really needed until your 50 and then scheduled either every 10 years if you are polyp free or shorter interval if polyps noted. Agree that entirely too many pan-endoscopies are done for BS reasons.

Socialism, I fear is here to stay. E-Kul kind of reminds me of Marxists who feel that everybody should work for the community and to hell with self gratification or success. However, my point about the matter is that there are far more individuals who milk the system and feel entitled...there I said it...to benefits they do not deserve. Doctors go through a lot of training and blood and sweat. E-Kul, so what if worm got student loans. He is going to pay them back in full plus tacking on an extra 100K for interest. Lawyers meanwhile are free to sue regardless of the frivolity of the lawsuit. Obama doesn't realize that a main driver of astronomical healthcare costs is docs pursuing and ordering needless test for fear of a million dollar lawsuit. Moreover, an illegal alien can come into this country, drink methanol or isopropyl alcohol, and I would have to dialyze for free or he can sue me. WTF is wrong with this country.

E-Kul, I don't get your disdain for a group of individuals who hardly have a GOD complex on average and bust their ass to make a dime. You sound like a pontificating AssHole IMO.

[Radical Plato]

Imagine of doctors were paid on a performance based system and they actually had to help or heal people, they would be pretty broke.

[OneMoreRep]

OMR,

Tend to agree with all your points, however dyspepsia or acid reflux for greater than 3 months in a patient over the age of 55 warrants an EGD. Colonoscopy not really needed until your 50 and then scheduled either every 10 years if you are polyp free or shorter interval if polyps noted. Agree that entirely too many pan-endoscopies are done for BS reasons.

That is exactly the point my post made.  I agree with an EGD for reflux greater than 3 months with no improvement by way of medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes, but to shove a colonoscopy in the mix in order to rule out other pathologies in an otherwise healthy patient is absurd.

A patient comes in for non-resolving acid reflux that has not responded to medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes and then the gastroenterologist recommends an EGD in order to assess for possible gastric polyps or even esophageal lining that is starting to resemble barrett's esophagus (precancerous esophageal tissue lining that resembles the lining of the stomach due to perpetual eroding by gastric acid) AND guess what the GI doctor then tells their patient right before they go down (sedated) for the procedure, "Listen, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and do a double-dip (both upper-egd & lower-colonoscopy) in order to get a full picture due to your age and unresolving symptoms.  The patient immediately agrees as it is their doctor recommending it.  Bada-bing, bada-boom you have a double-dip and insurance reimburses for both.  Scam!  That is one practice I don't agree with.  While auditing a few hospitals in NYC, we cracked down on non-essential tests and practices that sought out to drain the resources a patient had on hand.

We said the exact same thing, my post is just a little wordy..
"1"

[OneMoreRep]

Imagine of doctors were paid on a performance based system and they actually had to help or heal people, they would be pretty broke.

Actually, a couple of new changes to health insurance is doing just this for the upcoming years.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesinsights/2012/06/11/value-based-health-care-fad-or-future/

It will be the upcoming "thing" with regards to compensation for physicians.  If you are interested on the matter, look up "value based reimbursement" in google and you will get a healthy dose of articles regarding it.

Medicare is already going to switch to this method, whereby the rate of reimbursement for a physician will depend entirely on the patient's feedback by way of surveys.  Crappy surveys will result in a lower rate of compensation.

The unfortunate part is that not all physicians have great bedside manners, so even if an MD does a great job by way of treating the patient and curing them of their underlying ailment, if they forgot to smile throughout the process, that can significantly cost them in their bottom line.

That isn't fair either.

"1"

[nicorulez]

That is exactly the point my post made.  I agree with an EGD for reflux greater than 3 months with no improvement by way of medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes, but to shove a colonoscopy in the mix in order to rule out other pathologies in an otherwise healthy patient is absurd.

We said the exact same thing, my post is just a little wordy..
"1"

My bad. I get it now OMR. E-Kul, I have obtained 90 percent plus on Board Certfication exams for both Internal Medicine and Nephrology. My dialysis units rank among the top five percent in all of the SE United States for Fresenius. Maybe I deserve a raise, but to be honest I am very content with my job and enjoy my patients. You on the other hand appear to be bitter and envious of physicians for some reason. Why? Did you go to a quack...they are around. Did you or a loved one have a bad outcome. IMO, the vast majority of physicians are decent people. Like all people, there are good ones and bad. Reputations in the community are often a good indicator of whether a physician is competent and compassionate. As they say, if you think most doctors have a GOD complex, what does it ultimately matter if he is competent and gets the job done. In surgery, my colleagues are often arrogant, but the one worth their salt do a fine good job. Think about it, if you want nice see a priest. If you need NSGY, maybe USCDevilDoc is the right choice  

[El Diablo Blanco]

You could be a cock doc habibi

Thank you very much for your vote of confidence, my dear friend.

The feeling is mutual, as I feel that you are one of the most talented members on this site.

While I fancy myself as a part time proctologist, my true calling is in the realm of finance.  It's proven to be the last bastion of lucrative business.  Regardless of the state of the economy, we continue to make money.

"1"

[OneMoreRep]

You could be a cock doc habibi

You might be on to something.

I do have a way of making a man's cock feel good upon my arrival, ironically enough, it always ends with their cocks throwing up at the end.... counterintuitive to what a doctor should be doing, no?

"1"

[Radical Plato]

My bad. I get it now OMR. E-Kul, I have obtained 90 percent plus on Board Certfication exams for both Internal Medicine and Nephrology. My dialysis units rank among the top five percent in all of the SE United States for Fresenius. Maybe I deserve a raise, but to be honest I am very content with my job and enjoy my patients. You on the other hand appear to be bitter and envious of physicians for some reason. Why? Did you go to a quack...they are around. Did you or a loved one have a bad outcome. IMO, the vast majority of physicians are decent people. Like all people, there are good ones and bad. Reputations in the community are often a good indicator of whether a physician is competent and compassionate. As they say, if you think most doctors have a GOD complex, what does it ultimately matter if he is competent and gets the job done. In surgery, my colleagues are often arrogant, but the one worth their salt do a fine good job. Think about it, if you want nice see a priest. If you need NSGY, maybe USCDevilDoc is the right choice  

If you follow this thread, my issue is with the initial poster bragging about his half a million dollar a year doctors lifestyle and then disparaging and dehumanising some poor schizophrenic guy at his gym who is on welfare.  That's what I thought was particularly offensive, that someone who worked in the so called CARING profession had ZERO empathy for the most vulnerable members of the community.  The first image I had when I read his thread was Patrick Bateman from the movie/book American Psycho.  It always amazes me why cruel and sadistic people would be attracted to a CARING profession, obviously for some sociopaths, the perks of being a doctor make up for pretending to care about people.

 My Mother was a career Nurse who started of in general Nursing and ended up a midwife.  She spent 45 years in Hospitals, and I have heard many stories from her, and she also didn't have much good to say about Doctors.  My own personal experience of Doctors is via the Medicare system in Australia, and the system sucks, it is common practice for medical centres to completely overbook, leave you waiting for ever and then give you ten minutes (20 minutes if you want to pay double) whereby you can explain your problem, and they then write you out a script and push you out the door, you often times have to wait weeks for an appointment and you are lucky if you can get a doctor who speaks fluent English or even luckier to find a white doctor.

The only time I have been to hospital was for emergency surgery after being attacked by two pitbulls and I had my Achilles tendon severed and was badly mauled.  That also wasn't a good experience with doctors or hospitals (but that is another story), my last trip to the doctor was an attempt to get some sleeping tablets as I haven't been sleeping well lately, and an Indian Doctor who barely spoke English said I had to go to a psychiatrist to get sleeping tablets.  I said "WHAT!" I have to spend hundred or more dollars to go see a head shrink to get some sleeping pills, the doctor said "That's Right", I said I don't know what scam you guys are running, but for Hundred dollars I can get plenty of good drugs that will knock me out, at which point I told him to go fuck himself and walked out.  I told the receptionist I wasn't paying and then left.  The whole profession is Elitist Bullshit, Doctors get off on the Power trip and treating people like children, it is no wonder that illicit drugs are so popular,

[The Abdominal Snoman]

Do you really want schizophrenics and people with mental illnesses in the work-place....?

The original poster said the guy at the gym was a schizophrenic too. So there's a possibly that without family help, he will walk the streets talking to imaginary people. Anyone who owns a company doesn't want these people anywhere near the workplace.

[Griffith]

Most are just in it for the cash and prestige and couldn't give a shit, it's just a means to an end.

When they see a patient, they see cash. And often push for surgery, even if they know it's not completely necessary.
Then after they give the op, and there problems, they don't want to know you!!

But it's a Catch 22 situation, if it didn't pay well, there would be a shortage and less incentive for competition.

But admittedly, when it comes to doctors, I do sympathise with the East German model where they earn only slightly more than a brick-layer  

[The Abdominal Snoman]

Gonna need that in tomato analogy form, bro.

lolz

[nicorulez]

If you follow this thread, my issue is with the initial poster bragging about his half a million dollar a year doctors lifestyle and then disparaging and dehumanising some poor schizophrenic guy at his gym who is on welfare.  That's what I thought was particularly offensive, that someone who worked in the so called CARING profession had ZERO empathy for the most vulnerable members of the community.  The first image I had when I read his thread was Patrick Bateman from the movie American Psycho.  It always amazes me why cruel and sadistic people would be attracted to a CARING profession, obviously for some sociopaths, the perks of being a doctor make up for pretending to care about people.

 My Mother was a career Nurse who started of in general Nursing and ended up a midwife.  She spent 45 years in Hospitals, and I have heard many stories from her, and she also didn't have much good to say about Doctors.  My own personal experience of Doctors is via the Medicare system in Australia, and the system sucks, it is common practice for medical centres to completely overbook, leave you waiting for ever and then give you ten minutes (20 minutes if you want to pay double) whereby you can explain your problem, and they then write you out a script and push you out the door, you often times have to wait weeks for an appointment and you are lucky if you can get a doctor who speaks fluent English or even luckier to find a white doctor.

The only time I have been to hospital was for emergency surgery after being attacked by two pitbulls and I had my Achilles tendon severed and was badly mauled.  That also wasn't a good experience with doctors or hospitals (but that is another story), my last trip to the doctor was an attempt to get some sleeping tablets as I haven't been sleeping well lately, and an Indian Doctor who barely spoke English said I had to go to a psychiatrist to get sleeping tablets.  I said "WHAT!" I have to spend hundred or more dollars to go see a head shrink to get some sleeping pills, the doctor said "That's Right", I said I don't know what scam you guys are running, but for Hundred dollars I can get plenty of good drugs that will knock me out, at which point I told him to go fuck himself and walked out.  I told the receptionist I wasn't paying and then left.  The whole profession is Elitist Bullshit, Doctors get off on the Power trip and treating people like children, it is no wonder that illicit drugs are so popular,

I am not defending DevilDoc or his crassness to some poor sap. However, you went on to disparage most physicians, and it appears that you have decided to collectively throw out the baby with the bath water because of a few bad eggs. Maybe if Australia had a system where it was competition based and not government run or mandated the system would be better. I know for a fact that the local hospitalists are paid hourly and could care less if they care for one patient or twenty. Now, incentivize them to get paid a commensurate sum per admission and patient, along with rewarding standard of care medicine (there's your productivity and quality claim) you will see better physicians. If the government runs the system, you are going to get dumber docs and lazier ones.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

The younger generations need to examine the question of who gets government support/welfare because the number of working people are shrinking compared to the # of people receiving assistance.  This is and will increasingly be a real problem.  There is also a disincentive to work.  Penn government reported on a female mom with 2 kids being better off on assistance than working a job making 40+K per year.  This is not the intent.

I believe able bodied people should only ever get temporary assistance.  We have a responsibility to take care of our sick, disabled, elderly and veterans.  

This is a good post...ONe of the biggest problems going forward imop is not understanding mental illness. In America, everything in your body that is diseased gets compassion except the brain. And because most doctors know next to nothing about the brain, they too look the other way. Watching what happened with the Conn. shooting shouldn't have happened if our mental health system was top priority.

[jwb]

If you follow this thread, my issue is with the initial poster bragging about his half a million dollar a year doctors lifestyle and then disparaging and dehumanising some poor schizophrenic guy at his gym who is on welfare.  That's what I thought was particularly offensive, that someone who worked in the so called CARING profession had ZERO empathy for the most vulnerable members of the community.  The first image I had when I read his thread was Patrick Bateman from the movie/book American Psycho.  It always amazes me why cruel and sadistic people would be attracted to a CARING profession, obviously for some sociopaths, the perks of being a doctor make up for pretending to care about people.

 My Mother was a career Nurse who started of in general Nursing and ended up a midwife.  She spent 45 years in Hospitals, and I have heard many stories from her, and she also didn't have much good to say about Doctors.  My own personal experience of Doctors is via the Medicare system in Australia, and the system sucks, it is common practice for medical centres to completely overbook, leave you waiting for ever and then give you ten minutes (20 minutes if you want to pay double) whereby you can explain your problem, and they then write you out a script and push you out the door, you often times have to wait weeks for an appointment and you are lucky if you can get a doctor who speaks fluent English or even luckier to find a white doctor.

The only time I have been to hospital was for emergency surgery after being attacked by two pitbulls and I had my Achilles tendon severed and was badly mauled.  That also wasn't a good experience with doctors or hospitals (but that is another story), my last trip to the doctor was an attempt to get some sleeping tablets as I haven't been sleeping well lately, and an Indian Doctor who barely spoke English said I had to go to a psychiatrist to get sleeping tablets.  I said "WHAT!" I have to spend hundred or more dollars to go see a head shrink to get some sleeping pills, the doctor said "That's Right", I said I don't know what scam you guys are running, but for Hundred dollars I can get plenty of good drugs that will knock me out, at which point I told him to go fuck himself and walked out.  I told the receptionist I wasn't paying and then left.  The whole profession is Elitist Bullshit, Doctors get off on the Power trip and treating people like children, it is no wonder that illicit drugs are so popular,

Go to the chemist and buy some Restavit that will knock you out.

[Radical Plato]

I am not defending DevilDoc or his crassness to some poor sap. However, you went on to disparage most physicians, and it appears that you have decided to collectively throw out the baby with the bath water because of a few bad eggs. Maybe if Australia had a system where it was competition based and not government run or mandated the system would be better. I know for a fact that the local hospitalists are paid hourly and could care less if they care for one patient or twenty. Now, incentivize them to get paid a commensurate sum per admission and patient, along with rewarding standard of care medicine (there's your productivity and quality claim) you will see better physicians. If the government runs the system, you are going to get dumber docs and lazier ones.

I am sure their are quality physicians who are quality people, and you may be one of them, I just hate the way they treat you like a child, I also hate the way they deal with pain management, to me, this should be the highest order of business for a general practitioner, but instead they are always worried you are going to get addicted or you won't use the medication responsibly and they tell you to take a low grade paracetamol or aspirin.  Even after I had my Achilles tendon severed and I was in agony, they gave me too little pain relief and I was left with a lot of unnecessary pain.  

Personally, I think all drugs should be legal, (especially when you consider what's happening in Mexico anyway, that's another story too) and as an adult I should be given the choice if I want to risk addiction or any other side effects for that matter, this whole GOD trip they play with drugs is pretty ridiculous, when I have to go to the local drug dealer at the Gym to get some sleeping tablets, you know the Medical system is pretty fucked up.  (and I rarely ever have any drugs at all, currently don't drink, smoke or take any medications)  I occasionally take some paracetamol for a rare headache and some anti inflammatory for a minor back issue.)  Yet my girlfriend can go to the doctor and come back with half the pharmacy.  Personally, I have given up hope of finding a decent doctor (after 40 years, I haven't met one worth going to regularly), I will definitely be one of those old men who will only go to a doctor under duress and near death.

[Griffith]

I am sure their are quality physicians who are quality people, and you may be one of them, I just hate the way they treat you like a child, I also hate the way they deal with pain management, to me, this should be the highest order of business for a general practitioner, but instead they are always worried you are going to get addicted or you won't use the medication responsibly and they tell you to take a low grade paracetamol or aspirin.  Even after I had my Achilles tendon severed and I was in agony, they gave me too little pain relief and I was left with a lot of unnecessary pain.  

Personally, I think all drugs should be legal, (especially when you consider what's happening in Mexico anyway, that's another story too) and as an adult I should be given the choice if I want to risk addiction or any other side effects for that matter, this whole GOD trip they play with drugs is pretty ridiculous, when I have to go to the local drug dealer at the Gym to get some sleeping tablets, you know the Medical system is pretty fucked up.  (and I rarely ever have any drugs at all, currently don't drink, smoke or take any medications)  I occasionally take some paracetamol for a rare headache and some anti inflammatory for a minor back issue.)  Yet my girlfriend can go to the doctor and come back with half the pharmacy.  Personally, I have given up hope of finding a decent doctor (after 40 years, I haven't met one worth going to regularly), I will definitely be one of those old men who will only go to a doctor under duress and near death.

A agree with you 100% here.