I have a buddy who's clean as a whistle and he's benched 405lbs raw. He never touched m1t when people claimed it was natural, he never used natural test boosters that were spiked with steroids or really any supplement other than some protein and creatine monohydrate. He's a beast. I would know, because I helped him with his first cycle and he looks fucking crazy!!
I believe him about being natural too because he couldn't even pin himself. He asked if he should just take orals but I forced him to use the sauce he already bought lol... his gf pinned him and know he's monstrous. Just ran some orals and a little bit of test and exploded. You can get strong and stay natural for sure. Strength training isn't a mystery. Getting BIG has plateaus that no natural can break through however. After a certain point you need to get on AAS or other drugs to progress.