So you do not trust the clinical trials by the manufacturers? Is there any scientific evidence to back that up, if so that is information that should be put out there.
Yes, trying to prove a vaccination contributed to or was a the cause of a problem is very difficult. But unless you have been on an island with no outside communication for the past several years, you would see that more and more people are starting to see the connection from overvaccinating and health problems. Yours is exactly the thinking that is continuing to cause our pets harm. Fortunately most vets are now at least considering that more is not always better and may be keeping up on studies and peer articles, and information from both the AVMA and the AAHA on the risks associated with vaccinating and increased risks from over vaccinating.
On the veterinary schools, I didn't personally check each one, but I do find Dr. Dodds a reputable source, as well as Dr.Schultz, I think once the Rabies Challenge Study gets under way and is completed (years from now) it will be another great benefit to pets and their owners:
Two Experts in the field of immunization.
The following is information I have gotten from two experts in the field of immunization. I am sharing this with you all so you know what is out there for all veterinarians to know. If your veterinarian is not aware of this information, inform he or she of this information so they can help you with reducing the amount of vaccines your animals receive.NEW VACCINATION PROTOCOL
by Dr. Jean Dodds
Note: All of the 27 Vet Universities in the US have followed the immunization protocol as suggested by Dr. Dodds for years
I would like to make you aware that all 27 veterinary schools in North America are in the process of changing their protocols for vaccinating dogs and cats. Some of this information will present an ethical & economic challenge to Vets, and there will be skeptics. Some organizations have come up with a political compromise suggesting vaccinations every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income vs. those concerned about potential side effects. Politics, traditions, or the doctors' economic well-being should not be a factor in a medical decision.
NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY
Dogs' and cats' immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces immunity, which is good for the life of the pet (i.e.,: canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper.) If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not "boosted" nor are more memory cells induced. Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated hemolytic anemia. There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines. Puppies receive antibodies through their mother's milk. This natural protection can last 8 - 14 weeks. Puppies & kittens should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, DELAY the timing of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart SUPPRESS rather than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age will provide LIFETIME IMMUNITY.
As for Rabies vaccine, it is a law that all dogs must be vaccinated according to each state. Currently all but two states require annual vaccines and all the rest will honor three-year vaccines. Write and call your local state animal control agencies and petition for acceptance of rabies titers in lieu of repeated vaccination for licensing.
What Every Veterinarian Should Know About Canine and Feline Vaccines and Vaccination Programs
- Ronald D. Schultz, PhD
As always, Dr. Schultz delivered an informative, provocative and important message to all attendees at the 2004 Conference.
General Principles
He began by reminding us that the original vaccinologists were all virologists. He then compared Innate or Natural Immunity which is nonspecific with Acquired or Adaptive Immunity which is specific. The former is present from birth, operates against any substance, and is not enhanced by prior exposure, whereas the latter is a defense mechanism, tailored to individual pathogens, and is enhanced by prior exposure. Age is related to innate immunity, as eventually there is immune senescence which plays a role in longevity. Vaccines sometimes enhance innate immunity, although they are designed to enhance acquired immunity. An example is the intranasal kennel cough vaccine, which is preferred over the parenteral version, as it stimulates innate immunity immediately.
In the presence of Protective Immunity, when re-infection occurs, the immune challenge agent(s) is recognized by pre-formed antibody and effector T-cells; rapid expansion and differentiation of the effector cells occurs; and the infectious agent(s) is removed. When Immunologic Memory is present, only mild or unapparent infection occurs; this protection may last a lifetime. Effector B-cells are plasma cells that live for at least 10 years and likely forever in the bone marrow. Sterile Immunity exists when there is no infection or unapparent re infection.
The endocrine and nervous systems are intimately interactive with the immune system, i.e. neuroendocrine system and immunity.
It was in 1978 that Ron Schultz and Fred Scott at Cornell first recommended triennial vaccination [Vet Clin N Am 8(4):755-768, 1978]. So it has taken 25 years for this recommendation to be adopted by veterinary scientists, industry, and mainstream veterinary medicine!
Cell-Mediated Immunity is not important in canine parvo virus (CPV) but very important in canine distemper virus (CDV) infections. In the presence of very low or no measurable immunity to CDV after appropriate vaccination, it is basically useless to revaccinate. Currently licensed CDV vaccines, including the recombinant (Merial) vaccine, produce excellent sustained immunity. He recommends giving MLV CDV vaccines twice, once before 12 weeks and once after 12 weeks of age, then every 3 years thereafter. For the recombinant vaccine, he recommends vaccination at 6, 8, and 12 weeks of age, then every 3 years thereafter.
Core Vaccines. These for dogs are distemper, parvovirus, adenovirus 2 (CAV-2), and rabies; for the cat, core vaccines are panleukopenia and rabies. The last dose of vaccine must be given at 12 weeks or older, and revaccination is given at 1 year of age or 1 year later. Non-Core Vaccines for dogs are Leptospirosis, Bordetella, Lyme , and canine parainfluenza vaccines; for cats, these are calicovirus and herpes (rhinotracheitis) viruses. Canine corona virus and Giardia vaccines are generally not recommended.
Duration of Immunity
The minimum duration of immunity (DOI) is 7-10 years for CDV, CPV-2, and CAV-2. Booster vaccination more than every 3 years offers no benefit. Two methods are used to measure DOI: disease agent challenge studies, and serology measurements. But, what is the DOI for natural infection for these important pathogens? The protection generated by MLV vaccines is equivalent to that of natural infection or disease. For killed vaccines, DOI is usually less and immunity is less complete. Recovery from disease is for life with CDV, CPV-2, and CAV-2.
CPV lives in the environment for years or more, whereas CDV is fragile and survives about 15 minutes in the naked state. With CDV exposure, one has up to 72 hours to vaccinate and still induce protection, but with CPV, one has only 72 minutes. In specific pathogen-free animals, vaccination against core agents lasts at least 4 ½ years.
After only 1 dose of rabies vaccine, DOI is 5-7 years based on serologic titers.
Pfizer's published study in January 2004 showed DOI of at least 4 years for their 5-way canine and 3-way feline vaccines. Schering Plough now guarantees their CDV, CPV, and CAV-2 vaccines for 3 years; their panleukopenia and FeLV vaccines are also guaranteed for 3 years. Fort Dodge recently showed 3--year protection after challenge studies for their CDV, CPV, and CAV-2 vaccines.
Miscellaneous
Feline Leukemia Vaccine. Recommends product by Fort Dodge or Schering Plough; 2 doses must be given 3 weeks apart, and preferably at 9 and 12 weeks of age. No measurable titers are typically found, and no more vaccines are needed for cats over 1 year of age as FeLV is not that contagious.
Lyme disease. Infection and disease seen mostly in northeast and around the Great Lakes region. Vaccination is generally not recommended except in high-risk areas, and then only the recombinant vaccine is recommended at the beginning of the tick season. [Generally good advice to avoid bacterin vaccines, whenever possible, as they are immune modulators (e.g. Lyme, Leptospirosis, and Bordetella parenterals; intranasal Bordetella is satisfactory).]
Leptospirosis Vaccine. As a zoonotic disease, there is concern about contagion with leptospira spp. However, vaccination does not prevent against shedding of the organism, so it is not protective of others. Even 2 vaccinations and annual boosters will not adequately protect against re-infection, because of the short-lived immunity induced (several months). Hypersensitivity reactions to leptosirosis vaccines (Type I hypersensitivity) are long-lived, and can be recalled acutely even after 4 years. Many dogs now have measurable titers against L. bratislava and L. autumnalis, but they do not have disease unless titers are in the thousands and clinical signs are present. Serovars of leptospira spp. cross-react, especially with L. grippotyphosa, L. pomona , L. canicola, and L. icterohemorrhagiae.
Kennel Cough Vaccines. In 5,000 dogs studied in shelters, it made no difference which vaccines were given, as some dogs still got kennel cough. Upper respiratory infection is endemic in most pounds and shelters because of the crowding, poor ventilation, and variable hygiene. Kennel cough vaccines are basically useless, as natural immunization is ubiquitous.
Recombinant Vaccine. Good for use in shelters as are more likely to overcome maternal immunity. CDV recombinant can boost immunity rapidly in 90% of cases, whereas MLV CDV can do so in only about 10%. Excellent antibody titers are produced to the rCDV product, and they don't cause immunosuppression like MLV vaccines. Merial's recombinant CDV vaccine should be given at 6, 8, and 12 weeks of age , and then 3 years later. A question remains about the induction of autoimmune disease with recombinant vaccines, although hypersensitivity reactions should not occur. Naked DNA vaccines are being developed, as the next stage of vaccinology.
Horses. Generally, equine vaccines perform poorly (give one year or no immunity). Must ignore information about dogs, cats, and humans when dealing with horse vaccines. Even the newer equine influenza vaccine gives immunity for only about 11 months. Equine herpes vaccines are lousy, giving immunity for only 2-3 months in attempting to prevent herpes abortion, but these vaccines should never be given to pregnant mares, despite common recommendation to do so.
Tetanus vaccines produce good 3-year immunity. For West Nile Virus (WNV) vaccine, 2 doses are given 2-3 weeks apart at 6 months of age, but duration is only about 6 months. The newer WNV vaccines give 11-12 months immunity.
Vaccine Non-Responders or Poor Responders. The estimated frequency of these low responders is 1:1000-1:10,0000, and is genetically determined. It more likely occurs with CPV than CDV (10 times less) or CAV-2 (100 times less) vaccines, especially in Dobermans and Rottweilers, although most of these bloodlines have died off now. Non-responders to one vaccine are unlikely to be non-responders to another vaccine agent.
Summary provided by W. Jean Dodds, DVM
The 3 year rabies and the 1 year rabies are the same vaccine, different label. But if a dog of was mistakenly given a vac labeled 1 year, most vets would make that animal get another rabies shot the next year. As long as your liability is covered, who cares about that animals health, you can just treat the problems that show up that are virtually unprovable to show the cause as the vaccine.
Titers do not prove or disprove that a dog needs a booster. They can be low and the animal can be protected because it might mean the animal hasn't been challenged by the virus recently. That is why some vets don't want to do them. They can bring a peace of mind if they are high, but low can give a false assumption of need for re-vaccination. Some states will accept a rabies titer in lieu of a vaccination, it would have to be re-checked yearly. Also rabies waivers can be given and should be. Though most vets are reluctant to do so. Sorry, your dog has cancer, but it must have it rabies vaccination.
Since you are such a stickler for following labels and such, remember, only HEALTHY animals per manufacturers labels, are to be vaccinated. A dog comes in with skin problems, he is not healthy. You would be going against the manufacturers and giving it off label. I could probably think of a hundred more cases where a vet will still vaccinate even though the animal is not healthy. That is done every day. That is a disgrace. But since cause is hard to prove, the vet gets away with it without a worry to himself.
You are a vet that would scare me. You stand behind "we are not 100% sure" and keep on doing the same things, even though if you thought about it you could see a connection between some conditions and vaccinating. You ignore the most up to date studies and information available. I have based my decisions on actual studies, peer reviewed articles, top professionals in their fields, and personal first hand experience.
When you want to open the door and come into the current information, then we can talk. Until then I will counter any inadequate or misleading information you post. I will try and do this like I have always tried to do, with studies and respected articles, and not junk science, all the information that is available, not just what I think people should know. Vets hiding behind liabilities and ignoring the evidence before their eyes is one of the main reason that people are being proactive and educating themselves. We have to, one can not have the trust in your vet like used to be commonplace.
I guess you forgot sarcasm