Zimmerman - Self Defense Class or Benching 500 an Up? whats next?

[Conker]

He did?  What police officer gave this order?  Is this relevant to any statutory element? 

i think it is very relevant, i would imagine that showing he had a valid reason to be following the deceased will play a major role in his defence. the fact that there is an audio recording of him being instructed by a police operative to stay in his vehicle and not pursue the 'suspect', seriously weakens his case.

[SLYY]

The fact that Trayvon was leaving the scene, and the guy got out of the car when he was advised to wait because police were on the way, guy still insisted on pursuing him (sounded agitated and looking for a fight). By his own admittance followed him, shot him. Kid died.

It's a clear cut case.

Those aren't the facts of the case.  Moreover, you have stated no facts regarding Zimmerman "backed him in to a corner."

[pulling weight]

Those aren't the facts of the case.  Moreover, you have stated no facts regarding Zimmerman "backed him in to a corner."

Trayvon wasn't leaving the scene? The guy didn't sound agitated and decided to pursue when he was told not to? The guy didn't shoot and kill an unarmed teen? These are facts.

Look, I'm very racist, and would have more respect for you if you just came out and said, "alright another darky is dead". This semantic bobbing and weaving over what is very clearly a second degree murder is transparent.

[SLYY]

i think it is very relevant, i would imagine that showing he had a valid reason to be following the deceased will play a major role in his defence.

What Fl statute is this information relevant?

the fact that there is an audio recording of him being instructed by a police operative to stay in his vehicle and not pursue the 'suspect', seriously weakens his case.

What element of what FL statute is being effected by your above statement, thereby "seriously weaken[ing] his case?"

[bike nut]

"He's getting away" sure sounds like a pursuit.  The shooting ws 2 blocks from where the 911 call started.
ya look at the 50+ 911 calls that zimmerman made in the last year... he called about potholes, open garages, etc.  Dude was a drama queen.
give him a gun and a sense of entitlement and he feels he's allowed to violate the rights of others = confront and challenge them.
Trayvon was killed a few houses from his GF's house.  ZImmerman lived 8 blocks in the other direction. 

A good Neighborhood Watch person would call 911 forty times in a neighborhood that was experiencing an increase in home invasions and crime - especially one where the descriptions of the perps was "black male". Since he was working on NW that night, why would Zimmerman's home address be relevant? None of the witnesses have disputed that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him....is that how poor Trayvon's "rights" were being violated?

You can whine, piss, and moan all you want....the reality is, Zimmerman's dad is a judge, George's testimony will be air-fucking-tight. He'll walk - Al Shaprton will scream, the rest of us will go on with our lives.

[bike nut]

That sums it up.
He went against police orders to stay in his car and instead initiated a confrontation that led to him shooting to death an unarmed teenager with no criminal record.
Open and shut case. Second degree murder.

Not true.....a police 911 operator does not give orders.

"We don't need you to do that" is NOT a police order.

[pulling weight]

You guys are just too cowardly to admit you hate neegals, so you try your damned hardest to play lawyer and look for any little semantic argument to dance around the truth.

If Zimmerman shot a white kid you wouldn't be arguing in his favor period.
LOL
So cut the bullshit.

[SLYY]

Trayvon wasn't leaving the scene? The guy didn't sound agitated and decided to pursue when he was told not to? The guy didn't shoot and kill an unarmed teen? These are facts.

Look, I'm very racist, and would have more respect for you if you just came out and said, "alright another darky is dead". This semantic bobbing and weaving over what is very clearly a second degree murder is transparent.

I am sure there was grass on the ground.  There may have been moonlight at the scene as well.  You need to describe all the relevant known facts, not simply pick and choose.  If it "is very clearly a second degree murder" Zimmerman would have been in jail since the night the incident occurred.  

[SLYY]

You guys are just too cowardly to admit you hate neegals, so you try your damned hardest to play lawyer and look for any little semantic argument to dance around the truth.

If Zimmerman shot a white kid you wouldn't be arguing in his favor period.
LOL
So cut the bullshit.

You can cast insults all day in this thread, it will not make you come across as intelligent, informed, or correct.  So far, you have yet to make an informed or educated post regarding this case.

[Conker]

Those aren't the facts of the case.  Moreover, you have stated no facts regarding Zimmerman "backed him in to a corner."

facts of case.

zimmerman reports suspicious looking character to police.

police operative instructs zimmerman not to pursue 'suspect' and stay in his vehicle.

zimmerman ignores police instruction and pursues trayvon and ends up shooting dead an unarmed man with no criminal record.

those are the facts, the rest is hearsay. i think those facts alone will be enough for zimmerman to be convicted. if trayvon had been found with a weapon or if zimmerman had a witness to corroborate whatever story he finally settles on it would be a different case, but he has neither.

[SLYY]

facts of case.

zimmerman reports suspicious looking character to police.

police operative instructs zimmerman not to pursue 'suspect' and stay in his vehicle.

zimmerman ignores police instruction and pursues trayvon and ends up shooting dead an unarmed man with no criminal record.

those are the facts, the rest is hearsay. i think those facts alone will be enough for zimmerman to be convicted. if trayvon had been found with a weapon or if zimmerman had a witness to corroborate whatever story he finally settles on it would be a different case, but he has neither.

Those are not all the facts.  There are witnesses, so the rest is NOT hearsay.  The fact that Trayvon was unarmed is irrelevant to self-defense laws.  Why are you making such false statements?

[pulling weight]

You can cast insults all day in this thread, it will not make you come across as intelligent, informed, or correct.  So far, you have yet to make an informed or educated post regarding this case.

You're not a lawyer so stop pretending.
Zimmerman has smarter people than you that will help him weasel out of this.

And you know I'm right:
If that was your son you wouldn't be supporting Zimmerman.

Zimmerman followed and shot an unnarmed man that was leaving a scene, after he was advised to stay back.

Zimmerman (who has a criminal record) didn't listen, and now the teen (who does not have a record is dead) and Zimmerman is facing charges.

These are all facts.

[SLYY]

Zimmerman followed and shot an unnarmed man that was leaving a scene, after he was advised to stay back.

These are all facts.

Relevance?  Why do you keep making irrelevant statements?

[Conker]

Those are not all the facts.  There are witnesses, so the rest is NOT hearsay.  The fact that Trayvon was unarmed is irrelevant to self-defense laws.  Why are you making such false statements?

well feel free to state any facts i may have missed???

false statements...i stated facts which you have not challenged. the rest is my opinion, i believe if trayvon had been found with a knife in his pocket it would have been a completely different case.

there may be witnesses but do any of them corroborate zimmermen's story?

[pulling weight]

Relevance?  Why do you keep making irrelevant statements?

Are you a lawyer? No you're not. So cut the pseudo lawyer speak trying to sound intelligent LOL!

In the court of common sense Zimmeman is a murderer to the second degree.

That is why people hate lawyers, they don't use common sense, they are immoral weasels that use semantic arguments to win cases.

Grow some balls and admit you hate neegals

[bike nut]

ya look at the 50+ 911 calls that zimmerman made in the last year...

To add a little factual accuracy to your rant.....Zimmerman has called the police 46 times since 2004.

That's closer to 5X a year - not 50X a year.

Either way, it does not matter one bit to the case.

[SLYY]

well feel free to state any facts i may have missed???

false statements...i stated facts which you have not challenged. the rest is my opinion, i believe if trayvon had been found with a knife in his pocket it would have been a completely different case.

there may be witnesses but do any of them corroborate zimmermen's story?

You are posting half of the story as if it is the whole story.  You are wrong if you believe that "if Trayvon had been found with a knife in his pocket it would have been a completely different case."

Yes, the witnesses corroborate Zimmerman's story.  Don't you know that?  You are speaking in this thread as if you know what you are talking about when you clearly do not.

[SLYY]

In the court of common sense Zimmeman is a murderer to the second degree.

That is why people hate lawyers, they don't use common sense, they are immoral weasels that use semantic arguments to win cases.

Grow some balls and admit you hate neegals

Zimmerman is not being tried by your made up "court of commonsense."

We are civilized in the United States.  We follow laws.  Learn them and come back and have an informed conversation.  

[pulling weight]

Zimmerman is not being tried by your made up "court of commonsense."

We are civilized in the United States.  We follow laws.  Learn them and come back and have an informed conversation.  

You're an idiot. Stop pretending you have more than a high school education.

[SLYY]

You're an idiot. Stop pretending you have more than a high school education.

There is nothing more gratifying than when a person casts insults during a debate.  There is no better indication that they have lost. 

[bigmc]

almost everyone arguing in this thread is making assumptions to back their arguments

it would be more honest to argue the known facts and acknowledge the weakness on both sides

this isnt an open and shut case either way

but the chances are when the evidence is mixed and not clear cut the verdict will be not guilty

good luck finding a jury without preconceptions about the guilt of zimmerman

will be almost impossible with the amount of coverage the case as had

how the hell will they pick the ethnicities of the jurors

[pulling weight]

almost everyone arguing in this thread is making assumptions to back their arguments

it would be more honest to argue the known facts and acknowledge the weakness on both sides

this isnt an open and shut case either way

but the chances are when the evidence is mixed and not clear cut the verdict will be not guilty

good luck finding a jury without preconceptions about the guilt of zimmerman

will be almost impossible with the amount of coverage the case as had

how the hell will they pick the ethnicities of the jurors

Speak for yourself.

Fact: Trayvon was leaving the area.
Fact: Zimmerman was advised not to pursue.
Fact: Zimmerman sounded agitated and pursued him.
Fact: Zimmerman initiated a conflict.
Fact: Zimmerman shot and killed an unnarmed teen.
Fact: Zimmerman has a criminal record.
Fact: Trayvon has no criminal record.
Fact: if Zimmerman didn't pursue and shoot an innocent person, he wouldn't be facing charges.

[Conker]

You are posting half of the story as if it is the whole story.  You are wrong if you believe that "if Trayvon had been found with a knife in his pocket it would have been a completely different case."

Yes, the witnesses corroborate Zimmerman's story.  Don't you know that?  You are speaking in this thread as if you know what you are talking about when you clearly do not.

i am not wrong, it is an opinion, a criminal case is not some exact science. it will boil down to whether or not a jury believe he had reasonable grounds to shoot trayvon.

imo the fact that zimmerman initiated the confrontation after he had been instructed by the police to stay in his vehicle and the fact that trayvon was unarmed will make it very difficult for him to convince a jury that his actions were justified. that is my opinion.

i couldn't give a hoot whether you think i know what or i'm talking about or not. we will see when the case comes to trial.
 
and again i have posted what i see to be the relevant facts if you are privy to any other relevant facts then please post them...

[pulling weight]

Also 'stand your ground' implies just that--standing your ground
Stalking and shooting someone dead is not standing your ground. That's and oxymoron.
If Trayvon fought a person her perceived as a threat (a fat guy with a gun following you in the rain after you're walking away) then this would be an example of standing ones ground.

[pulling weight]

There is nothing more gratifying than when a person casts insults during a debate.  There is no better indication that they have lost. 

There you go trying to sound smart again LOL